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Minutes of Proceedings

43rd Parliament, 2nd Session
Meeting 24
Friday, April 16, 2021, 12:36 p.m. to 4:05 p.m.
Webcast
Presiding
Scott Simms, Chair (Liberal)

• Garnett Genuis (Conservative)
• Arnold Viersen (Conservative)
• Jenica Atwin (Green Party)
• Paul Manly (Green Party)
• Elizabeth May (Green Party)
House of Commons
• Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerk
• Émilie Thivierge, Legislative Clerk
 
Library of Parliament
• Gabrielle de Billy Brown, Analyst
• Marion Ménard, Analyst
Department of Canadian Heritage
• Thomas Owen Ripley, Director General, Broadcasting, Copyright and Creative Marketplace Branch
• Drew Olsen, Senior Director, Marketplace and Legislative Policy
• Kathy Tsui, Manager, Industrial and Social Policy, Broadcasting, Copyright and Creative Marketplace Branch
• Patrick Smith, Senior Analyst, Marketplace and Legislative Policy
Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, February 16, 2021, the committee resumed consideration of Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

The committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The Chair called Clause 1.

On Clause 1,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 15 on page 2 the following:

community element means the participation of members of the community in the non-profit content production of community media in the language of their choice, as well as in the day-to-day operations and administration of community media; (élément communautaire)”

Debate arose thereon.

Julie Dabrusin moved, — That the amendment be amended by deleting the word “non-profit”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Julie Dabrusin and it was agreed to.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly, as amended, and it was agreed to.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 15 on page 2 the following:

community program means a program created by a non-profit community media organization; (émission communautaire)”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Heather McPherson — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

Martin Champoux moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing lines 16 and 17 on page 2 with the following:

control, in the definition affiliate, in subparagraph 9.1(1)(i)(i) and in paragraph 9.1(1)(m), includes control in fact, whether or not”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Martin Champoux and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 6;

NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 5.

The Chair ruled that the following amendment was consequential to the previous amendment and therefore it was also adopted:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 7, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 8 the following:

“(k) the proportion of programs to be broadcast that shall be original French language programs, while ensuring that these programs represent a significant proportion of Canadian programs;

(l) the proportion of programs to be broadcast that shall be devoted to specific genres in order to ensure the diversity of programming; and

(m) continued Canadian ownership and control by broadcasting undertakings.”

Lyne Bessette moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 18 on page 2 the following:

“Indigenous peoples” has the meaning assigned by the definition aboriginal peoples of Canada in subsection 35(2) of the Constitution Act, 1982; (“peuples autochtones”)

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Lyne Bessette and it was agreed to.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing line 22 on page 2 with the following:

“ing receiving apparatus and includes foreign undertakings; (entreprise en ligne)”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 5;

NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 6.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing lines 23 to 26 on page 2 with the following:

programming control means control over the selection, recommendation and prioritization of programs for transmission, whether exercised by human, algorithmic or other means; (contrôle de la programmation)”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Heather McPherson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Heather McPherson — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

Martin Champoux moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing lines 23 to 25 on page 2 with the following:

programming control means control over the selection, recommendation or prioritization of programs or programming services for transmission or re-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Martin Champoux and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 5;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 6.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by deleting lines 27 to 35 on page 2.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Heather McPherson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Heather McPherson — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 35 on page 2 the following:

“(2.2) A person who uses a social media service to upload programs for transmission over the Internet and reception by other users of the service — and who is the provider of the service or the provider’s affiliate, or the agent or mandatary of either of them — does, by the fact of that use, carry on a broadcasting undertaking for the purposes of this Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Heather McPherson — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 35 on page 2 the following:

“(3.1) Subsection 2(3) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(3) This Act shall be construed and applied in a manner that

(a) is consistent with the freedom of expression and journalistic, creative and programming independence enjoyed by broadcasting undertakings; and

(b) supports the commitment of the Government of Canada to enhance the vitality of both official languages and of official language minority communities in Canada.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

Alain Rayes moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 1, be amended by adding after line 35 on page 2 the following:

“(2.2) A person does not carry on a broadcasting undertaking for the purposes of this Act whose transmission of programs over the Internet is

(a) ancillary to a business not primarily engaged in the transmission of programs to the public and is intended to provide information or services to clients;

(b) part of the operations of a primary or secondary school board, college, university or other institution of higher learning, a public library or a museum; or

(c) part of the operations of a theatre, concert hall or other venue for the presentation of live performing arts.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Alain Rayes and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 6;

NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 5.

At 2:12 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 2:25 p.m., the sitting resumed.

On clause 2,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by deleting line 36 on page 2 to line 3 on page 3.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived to on division.

Martin Champoux moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 38 on page 2 with the following:

“(a) the Canadian broadcasting system shall be effectively owned and controlled by Canadians, and foreign online undertakings may also provide programming to Canadians;

(a.1) each broadcasting undertaking shall contribute to”

Debate arose thereon.

Julie Dabrusin moved, — That the amendment be amended by deleting the word “online”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Julie Dabrusin and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 5;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 6.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the word “online” with the word “broadcasting”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10;

NAYS: Heather McPherson — 1.

The question was put on the amendment of Martin Champoux, as amended, and it was agreed to.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 3 the following:

“(1.1) Paragraph 3(1)(c) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(c) while sharing common aspects, English and French language broadcasting operate under different conditions — in particular, the minority context of French in North America — and may have different requirements;”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 4 to 11 on page 3 with the following:

“(2) Subparagraph 3(1)(d)(iii) of the Act is replaced by the following:”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Heather McPherson and it was agreed to.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 3 the following:

“(iii.2) support the production and broadcasting of original programs in French,

(iii.3) enhance the vitality of official language minority communities and support and assist their development by taking into account their particular needs and interests, — in particular that French is a minority language in Canada and that English is a minority language in Quebec — including through supporting the production and broadcasting of original programs by and for those communities,

(iii.4) support community broadcasting that reflects both the diversity of the communities being served and the high engagement and involvement in community broadcasting by members of those communities, including with respect to the languages in use within those communities and to the ethnocultural and Indigenous composition of the communities,

(iii.5) ensure that Canadian independent broadcasting undertakings continue to be able to play a vital role within that system, and”

Debate arose thereon.

Martin Champoux moved, — That the amendment be amended by deleting the words “— in particular that French is a minority language in Canada and that English is a minority language in Quebec —”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Martin Champoux and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Martin Champoux — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 3 the following:

“(iii.2) serve the needs and interests of official language minority communities by providing them with opportunities to produce and access programming in English or French, and”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Heather McPherson and it was agreed to.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 3 the following:

“(2.1) Paragraph 3(1)(e) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(e) the public and community elements of the Canadian broadcasting system shall be provided with adequate resources in order to contribute in an appropriate manner to the creation and presentation of Canadian programming;”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Heather McPherson — 1;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 10.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended

(a) by replacing line 28 on page 3 with the following:

“(3) Paragraphs 3(1)(f) and (g) of the Act are re-”

(b) by deleting lines 37 to 40 on page 3.

The question was put on the amendment of Heather McPherson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Scott Aitchison, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 5;

NAYS: Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 6.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Friday, October 23, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Paul Manly for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 33 on page 3 with the following:

“(f) each broadcasting undertaking shall make maximum use, and in no case less than predominant use, of Canadian resources — creative or otherwise — in the creation, production and presentation of programming, unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking, such as specialized content or format or the use of languages other than French and English, renders that use impracticable, in which case the undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of those resources;”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Paul Manly and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: — 0;

NAYS: Scott Aitchison, Lyne Bessette, Martin Champoux, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 11.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 32 on page 3 with the following:

“(f) each broadcasting undertaking shall make maximum use of Canadian creative and other resources in the creation and presentation of programming, unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking renders that use impracticable, in which case the undertaking shall make use of those resources to the extent that is”

Heather McPherson moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding, after the word “maximum”, the words “ ,and in no case less than predominant, ”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Heather McPherson and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Lyne Bessette, Julie Dabrusin, Anthony Housefather, Marci Ien, Tim Louis — 5;

NAYS : Scott Aitchison, Martin Champoux, Heather McPherson, Alain Rayes, Martin Shields, Kevin Waugh — 6.

The question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was negatived on division.

Heather McPherson moved, — That Bill C-10, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 33 on page 3 with the following:

“(f) each Canadian broadcasting undertaking shall employ and make maximum use, and in no case less than predominant use, of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation and presentation of programming;

(f.1) each foreign online undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of Canadian creative and other human resources in accordance with the objectives of the broadcasting policy set out in this subsection and taking into account the linguistic duality of the market they serve;”

Martin Champoux moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding the word “, production” after the word “creation”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Martin Champoux and it was agreed to.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding after the word “programming”, the following: “, unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking renders that use impracticable, in which case the undertaking shall make use of those resources to the extent that is appropriate to their nature;”.

At 4:05 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Aimée Belmore
Clerk of the Committee