INAN Committee Meeting

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Welcome to the 35th meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We are gathered here today on the unceded territory of the Algonquin/Anishnaabe nation.

     I'd like to welcome our witnesses who have joined us for this study on Bill C-29. In person we have Karen Restoule, founder of Bold Realities; Karla Buffalo, CEO of the Athabasca Tribal Council; and Chief Commissioner Clarence Manny Jules, First Nations Tax Commission.

    To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow. Members or witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services in English, French and Inuktitut are available for today's meeting. Please be patient with the interpretation. There could be a delay, especially since the Inuktitut has to be translated into English first before it can be translated into French, and vice versa.

    For those on video conference, the interpretation button is found at the bottom of your screen—the little globe—and you can listen in English, French or Inuktitut. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately. We will ensure that it's restored before we resume.

    The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can also be used at any time if you wish to speak or to alert the chair. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself.

    Excuse me, Mr. Chair, but Mrs. Gill has a point of order.

    Okay.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    I'd just like to know if the sound checks were done before the meeting started.

    Yes, they were.

    Thank you.

    Is that the case for all the witnesses?

    The tests were done for the witnesses with us during the first hour of the meeting.

    When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

    Each organization this morning will be invited to make a five-minute opening statement. That will be followed by questions from the members.

    I'd now like to get this under way by inviting Ms. Restoule to begin with her statement.

    Ms. Restoule, you have five minutes.

    Aaniin. Bonjour. Hello.

    My name is Karen Restoule. I am from Dokis First Nation, with relations in Nipissing and Temagami first nations, and I am honoured to have been invited here today to share insights on Bill C-29.

    In addition to recognizing each member of the committee here, I wish to recognize those who led the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission: the commissioners, the secretariat and everyone who experienced residential schools, including, most importantly, the survivors who had the courage to live through these experiences as well as share with the TRC and Canadians their truths. I hold my hands up to each of you.

    Also, I wish to recognize every Canadian who, whether employed by the state or by the church, was involved in the implementation of the federal residential school policy and mandate. It was a dark moment for all.

    Today we all find ourselves at this moment in time where we are learning about the truths and, most importantly, positioning ourselves to ensure that focused and concrete results-based action is taken to correct the legacy of this horrible policy, with the goal of securing a better future for indigenous peoples and a better future for Canada.

    Let us stay focused on this great responsibility.

    Entities and governments do not need oversight, but good governance requires it. Oversight refers to actions taken to review, monitor and report on the activity of entities to ensure that they are achieving results, ensuring good value for money. Good governance is also supported by the principles of legitimacy, accountability and transparency, which serve to build and maintain trust between citizens and public institutions.

    In Canada, the legitimacy of institutions is embodied in law. Advancement on call to action 53 to enact legislation to establish a national council for reconciliation is welcomed.

    It is recommended that the bill reflect the purpose and intent set out in call to action 53, which sets out clearly that the council be “an independent, national, oversight body”. Indian residential schools and other policies were implemented throughout the 19th and 20th centuries with defined purpose, great rigour and ample funding. The same or a greater degree of focus, robustness and resources must be used to correct the course.

    It is recommended that the words “efforts for” be struck from clause 6. The purpose of the council should be to advance reconciliation with indigenous peoples, full stop.

    In carrying out that purpose, it is recommended that the functions listed in clause 7 be revised to ensure that the council is also tasked with reporting on how reconciliation is being advanced in a tangible, measurable way with real results.

    In May of this year, we learned through a report requested by this very committee that monies being spent by the two indigenous affairs departments on advancing reconciliation have not resulted in commensurate improvement in their ability to achieve the goals that they had set for themselves, and that their ability to achieve specified targets has declined. It seemed that the departments would benefit from this council and the oversight.

    It is recommended that clause 10 include nominations of representatives from each of the following: the National Indigenous Economic Development Board, the First Nations Financial Management Board, the Indigenous Bar Association and the National Association of Friendship Centres. Monitoring and reporting on tangible advancement should be supported by leadership that is experienced in leading for results. There are many established indigenous leaders who have, in the course of their careers in business and finance, both on and off reserve, delivered real results.

    Finally, it's recommended that subclause 17(3) of the bill respect call to action 56, which calls for “the prime minister of Canada to formally respond to the report of the National Council for Reconciliation”. Where other entities established through federal legislation would, in normal course, be required to be accountable for their decisions and actions to Parliament through a responsible minister, the unique and unprecedented nature of this legislation necessitates a response from the Prime Minister of Canada.

    Thank you.

    Thank you very much, Ms. Restoule.

    We'll now go to Ms. Buffalo.

    Ms. Buffalo, you have five minutes.

    Tânisi, etlanite, good morning, everybody. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.

    My name is Karla Buffalo, and I'm the CEO of the Athabasca Tribal Council in Fort McMurray Wood Buffalo, Alberta. The Athabasca Tribal Council serves five first nations—the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, the Fort McKay First Nation, the Mikisew Cree First Nation, the Fort McMurray 468 First Nation and the Chipewyan Prairie First Nation—by providing relevant and innovative services and supports that enrich the well-being and health and prosperity of its people.

    We believe strongly in the need for authentic and action-oriented reconciliation. In our traditional territory in Treaty No. 8, the first nations are leaders in the advancement of economic reconciliation at a remarkable pace. Our focus is not just on fiscal sovereignty, but also on cultural revitalization and fostering strong and thriving communities and indigenous peoples. We are here to encourage a collaborative process with all nations, while respecting their individual sovereignty and self-governance.

    The establishment of the national council is an opportunity to help further meaningful reconciliation and to give accountability to progress being made on the TRC's calls to action that have yet to be implemented by Canada. It is important that any new structure established by the federal government be indigenous-led and have indigenous laws and legal systems in its creation.

    ATC supports the establishment of a national council for the purpose of advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples. However, as it stands now, ATC has some serious concerns about the bill, such as under-representation of indigenous people in the committee structure. Additionally, the representation needs to be balanced in gender and ages, including a balance between youth and elder voices.

    Bill C-29 does not include any measurable outcomes or targets, and no formal structure is given regarding metrics set out to the committee. We believe it's crucial that the proposed legislation include processes to measure outcomes.

     The current bill does not bind the federal government to provide funding to the national council, which is necessary to ensure that the national council has adequate resources to carry out its mandate.

    The legislation, as it's written now regarding the disclosure of information, does not appear adequate to allow the national council to obtain necessary information that it will require in order to carry out its mandate.

    Also, Bill C-29 lacks accountability measures by the Prime Minister and Canada to recognize and implement the national council's recommendations. The national council must be given the appropriate tools to hold this government accountable for the progress on reconciliation in all areas.

    ATC recommends the following amendments to Bill C-29:

    First, there need to be specific metrics outlined in the bill to give the national council structure and to measure its accountability. Measures and targets must encompass all areas from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. This document is not a checklist to complete; it is a guide toward the long-lasting reconciliation to have indigenous people move forward from being an oppressed minority to having equal treaty and inherent rights as indigenous peoples of Canada.

    Second is with regard to funding commitments on an ongoing basis. The Government of Canada announced in its 2019 budget that a total of $126.5 million would be allocated to support the establishment of the national council for reconciliation, including $1.5 million to support the first year of the council's operations. However, there are no funding commitments in the proposed legislation, and it is unclear how the national council will be funded on an ongoing basis.

    Research and reporting requirements of the national council are very extensive. In order to carry out its mandate, the national council will need to hire a large staff, including investigators. A funding commitment in the proposed legislation must be included to ensure adequate funding to support the national council's operations.

    Third, how the council will be able to access the necessary information to carry out its mandate should be clearly indicated. Bill C-29 should also be amended to give the national council the power to subpoena, in order to ensure that the national council has the ability to obtain all necessary information.

    Fourth, the council would benefit from an independent process in appointing the initial board of directors, allowing a more transparent and less politicized processes. Having an open and transparent process that honours indigenous forms of governance is necessary for the council to have relevance for all communities.

     Fifth is to increase the accountability required of the federal government. The federal government must take the steps necessary to ensure the recommendations of the national council are implemented. While ATC supports the passing of Bill C-29 to support reconciliation efforts, it is important that the values in reconciliation be upheld by having an appropriate structure and accountability measures in place.

    If the goals of the national council are to monitor, evaluate, conduct research, and report on progress being made in all sectors of Canadian society and by all governments in Canada, it is imperative that the national council have the appropriate tools to carry out this mandate in a meaningful way.

    Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to you all today.

    Marsi cho. Hay hay.

    Thank you, Ms. Buffalo.

    We'll now go to Chief Commissioner Manny Jules for five minutes.

     Good morning. I am Manny Jules, chief commissioner of the first nations tax commission. I am speaking to you from the former Kamloops Indian Residential School on my reserve in Kamloops. Thank you for the opportunity to appear as a witness before this committee as part of your examination of Bill C-29, the national council for reconciliation act.

    With regard to one of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, I am pleased to see the government's decision to enact legislation to make the creation of the national council a reality. The establishment of a permanent, non-political, indigenous-led organization to advance reconciliation with indigenous people is something all Canadians can and should support.

    There is much work to be done with respect to reconciliation in Canada. I know that in my own community, we are still trying to come to grips with the discovery of graves of children who attended the Kamloops Residential School. That was almost 18 months ago, and the feeling of shock, pain, anger and sadness has not subsided. I attended the Kamloops Indian Residential School as a day scholar. My father attended the school until grade 9. My mother attended the school until grade 3.

    Over the last three years, the First Nations Tax Commission undertook a research study about Canada's colonial policies from 1867 until 1927, leading to the prohibition of our power to collect taksis. We recently made a 15-minute film about this research. I will provide this to this committee. I believe it will help you understand who is truly to blame. I believe it will help you understand how residential schools were part of the government-led strategy to take away our children and destroy our governments, culture, jurisdictions and fiscal powers. I believe it will help you understand why there can be no real reconciliation without economic reconciliation.

    When I say economic reconciliation, I am talking about two fundamental components. One is that first nation governments must have jurisdictions and unassailable revenue authorities that help fund the exercise of those jurisdictions. The second is that first nations need to implement their jurisdiction and fiscal powers in a way that attracts investment from their members, and others, to participate in the economy on equal terms with everyone else.

    I have devoted most of my life to achieving economic reconciliation. Over the years, I have appeared many times before parliamentary committees to make proposals for economic reconciliation with first nations. With the support of Parliament, we have changed legislation to accommodate our property, local and sales tax jurisdictions in Canada. We have created a first nations national institutional model that enables interested first nations to implement their jurisdictions. As I said earlier, I believe first nation reconciliation must include economic reconciliation.

    The First Nations Fiscal Management Act institutions have been doing this successfully for almost 20 years. For this reason, I recommend that Bill C-29 be amended so that the council's first board of directors also includes a member of the First Nations Fiscal Management Act institutions to ensure economic reconciliation is addressed as a foundation for reconciliation. This is a significant gap, and I believe it must be addressed now, not five years from now.

    I look forward to working with this committee in the future on many more first nation-led innovations that will provide Canada with what it needs right now: hope and inspiration for a brighter future for all.

    Thank you very much.

     Thank you, Chief Commissioner.

    We'll now go to the first round of questions, beginning with Mr. Vidal.

    Mr. Vidal, you have six minutes.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    I want to thank all of our witnesses today. Your testimony has been absolutely tremendous. I really appreciate your taking the time and investing in this important piece of legislation.

    For my first question, I'm going to start with Ms. Restoule, but I want the other witnesses to please listen to my question, because I want to follow up with each of you on the same question, so just be aware.

    Ms. Restoule, in June of 2021, you wrote an article entitled “Empowering Indigenous entrepreneurs offers [a] new way forward”. In that article, you talked about a few things. You talked about the size and expected growth of the indigenous economy. You talked about indigenous entrepreneurship and how your own family's personal history of resilience and perseverance allowed you to push through and work around the Indian Act to prioritize your own economy.

    I want to be clear: This was framed in the context of the very fresh and recent discovery at the site of the Kamloops Indian Residential School. There are a couple of quotes you offered in that article that I want to set this up with:

    In the discussion or concept of economic reconciliation, if it is integral to success as we move forward to true self-determination and away from the Indian Act...a couple of you have already referred to this, but I want you to speak again about the importance of having representation on the national council from organizations or individuals that would focus on the interest of economic reconciliation.

    If each of you could take about a minute and a half to speak to that, that's going to pretty much kill my six minutes.

    All right. I'm keen to hear from the others, so I'll stick to my 90 seconds.

    Thank you for recognizing that piece. I wrote it from the heart. It was my first piece for The Hub Canada, and I'm encouraging everyone to check it out.

    At the core of who we are as a people—and I speak on behalf of myself and those who have come before me in Dokis and Nipissing areas—is that we are by nature hustlers, entrepreneurial people. This idea that Disney has created that we are all just frolicking on the pine trails of the forests is bizarre to me.

     I come from, as the kids say, a super hard-core family, where we set goals for ourselves and we deliver on them. Whether that's in the context of business, in law or in governance, we're always striving towards higher standards and higher goals and a vision setting out how to accomplish that.

    If I can, I'll note that in the TRC calls to action there are some qualifiers there as to what we should be measuring in terms of pursuing real results. I think that hits to the core of not just indigenous people but Canadians. Adequate funding and support for education, child welfare programs and health investments is at the core of how we are going to be able to succeed to achieve what I've just referenced here in terms of robust challenges and objectives for ourselves.

    I think it might be worth the committee's and the drafters' while to strengthen the language in the bill to focus on one that achieves real results to ensure we're constantly moving towards larger and bigger goals and repositioning ourselves here for the betterment of indigenous nations peoples but more importantly for Canada.

    Thank you.

    If I could move right on to Ms. Buffalo, you may want to respond to that same question as well.

     Thank you for the question.

    I think it's really thought-provoking and relevant to our area in the Fort McMurray, Wood Buffalo and Treaty 8 territory.

    I think about the first nations that we serve in the Athabasca Tribal Council, which are situated in the heart of oil sands. Our first nation communities have worked hard on building partnerships and establishing long-term agreements for the purpose of highly engaging in economic reconciliation, but the actual act of economic reconciliation really allows first nations to generate funds that put them in the position of creating their own indigenous law practice, legislation and policies to govern their communities. That is really at the heart of economic reconciliation. Some of the chiefs I have worked for over the last number of years have said that it's this ability to have the funding to drive the direction that a community wants to go to serve its people, under its own policy and legislation, as opposed to being dictated to about how funding needs to be spent on their people based on other people's priorities and direction. That shift is what I'm really seeing in our territory today.

    We have Fort McKay First Nation, which is currently working on changing its land code. They have been investing their profits back into their communities in a way that makes sense in terms of developing policy and legislation around how they want to govern they communities, as I've seen in all of our first nations.

    Economic reconciliation cannot be done alone, without cultural revitalization. Our first nations have really been focusing on that priority. As funds are being generated and their partnerships are being established with industry and government, they are also focusing on the economic reconciliation. It is those two pieces that need to come together—under the direction and guidance of our leadership—that really makes reconciliation—

    Thank you, Ms. Buffalo. That's the time.

    Now we go to Mrs. Atwin for six minutes.

    Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for your testimony today.

    I'm going to come back to some of the things that Ms. Karla Buffalo mentioned, in particular, around the need for accountability and transparency—I'm very much supportive of that key piece—and the tools and resources.

    I just want to mention that there was a commitment of $126.5 million allocated for this work in the 2019 budget, so I want to reassure you that it's critical that those resources are there. That's certainly the position of government as well.

    You did mention a piece about specific metrics for outcomes or the structure. My understanding of this legislation is that it's really setting the stage for the independence and the arms-length nature of the council.

    I'm wondering if you could comment a little bit on just how important it is that the council be independent and can determine those processes for themselves.

    Was that question meant for me?

    Yes.

    I really do think that part of what's critical is measurement of outcomes, but it's the measurement of outcomes that are important to establishing the quality of life of indigenous people, not just metrics that have been established by the Government of Canada or other institutions.

    I think about some of those metrics we've heard over time where it talked about the measurement of the number of children in care compared to non-indigenous people; comparative funding for education both on and off reserve; educational and income attainments of indigenous people compared to non-indigenous people; progress in closing gaps between indigenous and non-indigenous communities; health indicators such as infant mortality, suicide, mental health, addictions and life expectancy; and progress on reducing the overrepresentation of people in justice and correctional systems.

     I also think about what it really means to indigenous people who are in our communities in terms of what reconciliation means. I think it's about having a high quality of life so that they feel confident, happy and proud of being indigenous. It's where our youth and community members know and practise their culture and they're able to speak their indigenous languages that had been taken away from them.

    All of those metrics really transfer into what it means to be a proud and confident indigenous person, and what supports and pieces are in play to ensure that those changes are happening over the generations to reconcile the impacts of residential school and colonization.

     Thank you.

    I'll go to Ms. Restoule.

    You brought up some very important amendments. The great testimony today is very helpful for our work on committee.

    As a woman, I'm wondering in general how critical it is to centre women's voices in this process of reconciliation and have their guidance and leadership. I'm wondering if you could comment.

    Again, writ large—and speaking on behalf of myself, my experience and where I come from—what we're seeing across the country is the shift in responsibility being re-established with indigenous women. We are really leading the way on that front.

    It's not so much a power dynamic as it is a responsibility to honour the roles we play at home in raising those next generations. Federal policy has impacted and impeded our ability to do that over the course of time, but these were practices exercised day to day in our daily lives, family units and communities. Achieving real results is something that has come naturally to indigenous women across the country, if I can generalize. Certainly I see indigenous women and girls honouring that responsibility in the present and in the time to come.

    Thank you very much.

    Finally, Mr. Jules, I have a comment on economic reconciliation specifically.

    There are a lot of references being made, often, to oil and gas extraction in particular. I'm wondering if you could comment on the idea that economic reconciliation should be built on sovereignty and choice. I'm wondering if you can expand on that a bit.

    You come from a province where the premier arbitrarily cancelled a tax-sharing agreement. What I'm proposing is a first nations resource charge so that these dollars cannot be arbitrarily taken away. There has to be a legislative basis to do that. What I propose is that first nations be able to benefit from all of the resources taken within our traditional and treaty territories.

    Thank you very much.

    That's all from me, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you very much.

    We'll now go to Madame Gill for six minutes.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you to all the witnesses.

    My question is about women and is for Ms. Restoule. You mentioned them at the beginning of the meeting, and you mentioned them again. In fact, you said that economic organizations should be part of the council.

    Do you also think an organization like the Native Women's Association of Canada should be on the council?

    I understood your question in French, but I'm going to answer in English because the words escape me in French. My mother is francophone, so I know the French language very well.

    I appreciate your recommendation. It's definitely difficult to start nailing down a list, because it forever grows. That's not to say that if someone isn't representative at the council, they aren't going to be contributing to moving forward on a solution. An oversight from the national organization, led by indigenous women, should absolutely be included.

    Excuse me, Mr. Chair, but the interpretation isn't working in French. Maybe it's because we spoke a little bit in French with Ms. Restoule, but I still understood the meaning of her answer. I'll keep you posted, Mr. Chair.

    Ms. Idlout tells me it's the same thing for her. Perhaps the answer should be repeated, Mr. Chair.

    Ms. Restoule, could you repeat your answer to the last question? They didn't get the French translation.

    I'm so sorry, but it wasn't being translated into English.

    Oh, I'm sorry.

    All right, let's start over. Let's ask the question.

    Please repeat your question, Mrs. Gill. I'll start the clock again.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Ms. Restoule, could you give me your opinion on including the Native Women's Association of Canada on the council, given that you'd like women to be represented?

     My apologies. I think I threw off the room by speaking in French. It certainly wasn't my intent.

    I agree. I recognize the role that the national organization has played with respect to indigenous women taking leadership and addressing issues that impact them. I put to you that the list that I provided is not exhaustive, that all organizations and indigenous peoples—including women—are working to be part of the solution moving forward and that absolutely NWAC should be involved in a more formal capacity, and I would recommend that they be invited to nominate a representative on the council.

    Thank you for that.

    Thank you, Ms. Restoule.

    I have a question for all the witnesses.

    Mr. Clarence will be able to answer it first, since he hasn't had a chance to speak yet, but the question is also for Ms. Buffalo and Ms. Restoule.

    We've talked a lot about the economy, and everyone talked about “economic reconciliation”. I'd like each of you to define that concept.

    As you said, we want there to be sectoral representation on the council.

    Thank you very much for that question.

    I spent a lot of time during COVID reflecting on what my elder leaders talked about. They talked about these very issues in the 1910s of the last century, and what they talked about was having a proper land base and access to all of the resources so we could share in the bounty of this land.

    I also started to do research, as I mentioned in my presentation, particularly around an individual by the name of Duncan Campbell Scott. He's the individual who amended the Indian Act to take away our power and ability to have tax jurisdiction, and that fundamentally affected us to the extent that we're still dependent on the federal government for transfers for programs. Up until that point, we were independent; we had tax jurisdictions within our traditional territories here in British Columbia, and that fundamentally changed us from an independent nation to a dependent nation.

    Thank you very much for that question.

    Thank you, Mr. Clarence.

    Ms. Buffalo, it's over to you.

    Thank you for the question.

    You know, I spoke a little bit earlier about what my views are regarding our region in terms of economic reconciliation of indigenous communities and governments, but I think there's another side to economic reconciliation, and that is about the role of corporations, governments and organizations and their commitment and action towards reconciliation.

    I certainly know that over the years in our area, which has a lot of oil and gas, we have seen different levels of commitment and action from industry. It is the actions of those who have really taken this to heart and taken action by looking at partnership and investment with indigenous organizations and governments that really come together to allow economic reconciliation to occur within our region.

    It's not only about indigenous governments having the funds to be able to direct their legislation policy and governance in communities; it's also about those companies having that direct top-down commitment to making real partnerships that are meaningful and that are long-standing when they are operating on the traditional territories of our indigenous people.

    At the cut of it is that with a strong economy comes a strong social fabric, and that's the story where I come from. We've invested in fur trade—we almost put Hudson's Bay out of business—and timber, and most recently in our own hydro dam project. Leadership time and time again has focused on clear, tangible results in terms of our local economy, and as a result we've enjoyed that strong social fabric.

    That's not to say we haven't dealt with legacy issues from the terrible federal policy—absolutely, we have—but given the nature of the entrepreneurship and the focus on the economy, we've exercised a resiliency that has allowed us to overcome challenges and to move through challenges in order to achieve our goals, our objectives and, most importantly, our outcomes and results.

     Thank you.

    Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

    Now it's Ms. Idlout's turn. She has six minutes.

    [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᐃᒃᓯᕙᐅᑖᖅ, ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᐋ, ᐃᓘᓐᓇᓯ ᐅᓂᒃᑳᕆᐊᖅᑐᓵᖅᑐᓯᒍᑦ, ᐋ, ᑕᒪᑦᓯᑦᑎᐊᖅ ᑐᓴᕐᓂᖅᑐᒥᒃ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᓵᖅᓱᓯ ᑐᑭᓯᓇᑦᓯᐊᖅᑐᓂᒡᓗ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᓵᕋᑦᓯ, ᐋ, ᑕᒪᑦᓯ ᑭᐅᖁᓂᐊᕋᑦᓯ, ᐋ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐃᒃᓯᕙᐅᑕᖅᐳᑦ ᓇᓗᓇᐃᕆᓂᐊᖅᐳᖅ ᖃᓄᖅ ᑭᓇ ᑭᐅᖅᑳᕐᓂᐊᕐᒪᖓᖅ, ᐅᓇ ᓯᕗᓪᓕᖅᐹᖅ ᐊᐱᕆᒍᒪ-ᒐᒃᑯ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᖃᓪᓗᓈᑦ ᑎᑭᓚᐅᖅᑎᓐᓇᒍ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

     I thank all the witnesses. I like what I'm hearing, and the question I have is about the time before the missionaries came....

    Excuse me, Mr. Chair. There's no interpretation in French.

     I'm not hearing translation occurring. Is there a problem with the interpretation?

    A voice: I cannot hear Ms. Idlout. There's something wrong with the audio.

    I'm not aware of anything, sir.

    Ms. Idlout, is your microphone on?

    Can I repeat my question in Inuktitut?

    Yes, you may.

    Thank you.

    [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᐆᑮ, ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᓯᕗᕐᓕᕐᒥ ᑐᓐᖓᓱᑦᑎᑦᓱᒪᕙᑦᓯ, ᐋ, ᑐᓴᕐᓂᖅ-ᑐᒥᒃ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᑦᓵᕋᑦᓯ, ᐃᒃᓯᕙᐅᑕᖅᐳᑦ, ᐋ, ᐅᖃᐅᑎᕙ-ᒌᖅᐸᕋ ᑕᒪᕐᒥᒃ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐱᖓᓱᐃᑦ ᑭᐅᖁᓂᐊᕋᒃᑭ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐃᒪᓐᓇ, ᐋ, ᑐᓐᖓᕕᖃᕐᓂᐊᖅᑐᖅ ᐅᖃᐅᓯᕆᔭᕋ, ᐋ, ᖃᓪᓗᓈᑦ ᑎᑭᓚᐅᖅᑎᓐᓇᒍᑦ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖃᓚᐅᖅᓯᒪᒐᓗᐊᕋᑦᑕ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖅᑲᑎᒌᑦᑎᑕᐅᒪᔪᑦᔪᒧᑦ ᐊᑐᐊᒐᐃᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᐃᑦ ᓱᕋᑦᓴᐃᓯᒪᓇᓱᓚᐅᖅᑎᓪᓗᒋᑦ ᒫᓐᓇᒧᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖅᐳᑦ ᐊᑐᐊᓂᒍᓐᓈᓂᓐᖏᓇᑦᑎᒍᑦ ᓱᓕ, ᐋ, ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖅᐳᑦ ᐊᑐᖃᑕᐅᓕᕐᓂᒍᑦᑎᒍᑦ ᐃᓱᒪᒋᒐᒃᑯᓕ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑲᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᑦ, ᐋ, ᐃᓅᓯᖃᑎᒌᑦᓯᐊᕐᔫᒥᓕᕐᓗᑕᓗ ᐃᓅᓯᖅᐳᑦ ᐱᐅᓯᕚᓪᓕᕋᔭᖅᑰᕐᒪᑦ, ᐊᐱᕆᕙᑦᓯ ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒥ ᑖᓐᓇ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖏᑦ ᓴᐃᒻᒪᖃᑎᒌᓕᕐᓂᕐᒧᑦ ᐱᒻᒪᕆᐅᖃᑕᐅᒻᒪᖔᑦ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᑖᒃᑯᓄᖓ ᑎᒥᐅᔪᒧᑦ ᖃᐅᔨᓴᖅᑕᐅᖃᑕᐅᒋᐊᖃᕐᓂᐊᕐᒪᖔᑦᑕ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    First of all, I want to welcome the witnesses and thank you for your testimony. I like what I'm hearing, but I'm going to ask you to answer my questions individually.

    The question pertains to the time when we lived on the land before missionaries came. We had existing laws and, since the missionaries and foreigners have come, our laws have been changed and disregarded. We indigenous people would like to see those laws that we had revived, because we can move toward reconciliation by reviving the laws that we had.

    Is this considered an important aspect of reconciliation? Is there going to be research or a study done on the laws that existed before missionaries and foreigners came?

[English]

    I'd like to respond first, if that's okay, Mr. Chair.

    Please go ahead.

    I studied law at the University of Ottawa between 2009 and 2012. That was at a time when indigenous legal scholars John Borrows and Val Napoleon out of the University of Victoria's faculty of law initiated, in partnership with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, a project on the revitalization of indigenous laws.

    It's been about ten or eleven years since they first took on that initiative, and I understand that they've continued on with their mission to revitalize laws, which, as you say, rest at the foundation of our governance systems and of our ways of life prior to contact. I and many others with a legal background who are indigenous find that this work is a necessity to support, if not be at the core of, the reconciliation process in this country.

    If there were a way for the bill to support that in a specific way, we would be doing ourselves a lot of service as a country to continue to invest and take that work on in a serious way.

     Ms. Idlout, did you want somebody else to respond as well?

     [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᐄ, ᑕᒪᕐᒥᒃ ᑭᐅᔪᓐᓇᖅᐸᑕ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Yes. I would like to hear from the other witnesses as well.

[English]

    All right.

    Ms. Buffalo, do you have any comments?

    Yes.

    That's a great question about indigenous law-making. I asked our elders before if we had systems of law-making, and they said, “absolutely”. It's work that needs to be done to help our indigenous communities learn how to do indigenous law-making from the stories that have guided our communities for many generations.

    I offer the example of child and family services legislation. At ATC, we run under provincial jurisdiction for child and family services and the current delivery of those services, but we are starting the process of indigenous law-making. Part of that process is going out and working with our communities, and listening to the stories of how we have traditionally cared for our children. We help our communities take those stories, translate them and change them into indigenous law, so that we have legislation and processes based on traditional practices. We then ensure that our funding is based on how we have traditionally supported and cared for our families, so that when our families are in crisis, we have ways of being that direct in how we support those families in a way that makes traditional sense to us.

    Part of that process that we need to support is helping families, communities and leaders to understand how those stories translate into indigenous law, and then provide appropriate funding to ensure it is practised and supported in our communities.

    Thank you.

    Chief Commissioner Jules, you have about 40 seconds, if you wish to comment.

    Of course, we traditionally had laws. That's one of the areas that I'm working on right now. It's the implementation of our law over taksis. We look after each other. We help each other. We are not stingy with each other. We are not jealous of each other.

    That's a fundamental premise of our law-making authority. That's what I want to be able to modernize today.

    Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

    Colleagues, we have time for a compressed second round. It would be three minutes for the Conservatives and Liberals, and one and a half minutes for the other two parties.

    Is it still Mr. Vidal for three minutes?

    It will be Mr. Schmale, sir.

    Mr. Schmale, go ahead for three minutes.

    Thank you, Chair.

    Thank you to our witnesses.

    For the first question, I'll go to you, Ms. Restoule. You had great comments, and I appreciate the testimony.

    Let's talk about the oversight committee. Do you feel it's very independent right now in the way that it's set up by the way the bill is currently written and how the first group gets appointed, which sets the stage for future groups?

    That's a critical question. Transparency, accountability and independence become critical in this instance.

    In the selection of members, I'd recommend that the committee examine other means to appoint the members, the board of directors and the length of terms.

     In my experience, having come as an order in council appointee to Ontario's administrative justice system, I've dealt a lot with terms of service. It's very rare to have such a lengthy term on the first bounce. It might be worth the committee's while to examine a shorter initial term that leads to lengthier terms thereafter.

    Independence absolutely is key, as well as being the vehicle to trust and confidence in public institutions.

    Do you see the line here? We've heard many times in testimony that we're talking about reconciliation, and specifically economic reconciliation, in setting the stage for a different conversation in the future, recognizing that the status quo isn't working right now and that we have to develop that conversation into something different or we'll have 150-plus years or more of failure by governments of all stripes.

     Absolutely. Economic reconciliation is the vehicle forward in terms of setting our peoples or communities back on a path to prosperity—not only our nation, but the country as a whole. It really does lead to a strong social fabric.

    With the emphasis on ensuring that we are well positioned on that front, at that point I see us achieving some tangible outcomes and the dial shifting in the right direction, as it should.

    Mr. Jules, do you want to comment on any of that, even the part about the minister responding to the report—not the Prime Minister, as recommended in the TRC report?

    I too have been involved in the First Nations Tax Commission, which is a government council appointee process. It is lengthy and cumbersome, but having an adequate term is critically important, particularly at the outset. This is so you can begin to delve into the complex matters we will be facing, in terms of economic reconciliation and where we fit into the fiscal makeup of the country.

    However, and as was stated in the past, if we don't have a fiscal relationship that includes first nations, Canada will not achieve its global standing of former days.

    Thank you, Chief.

    We'll now go to Mr. Battiste for three minutes.

    Thank you very much.

    I thank the witnesses for their testimony.

     I'm interested to know more about this concept of economic reconciliation. I've looked through the calls to action, and two things stand out. When they talk about economic reconciliation, which doesn't really appear in the calls to action, they talk about closing the gaps, specifically in education and around health.

    If we frame things from an economic reconciliation standpoint, would you not agree that it is also important that we look at the cultural component of reclaiming languages and positive mental health among our communities? Could you talk a bit about the importance of culture, language and indigenous laws as part of reconciliation, and whether you can balance that?

    Manny Jules, if you want to start, that would be great.

    I work with the Ngāi Tahu on the South Island of New Zealand. One thing they have accomplished since settling their outstanding treaty obligations is investing a considerable amount of money—their own money—in culture and language. It has helped revitalize the language to the extent that it's a fundamental part of New Zealand language. The language itself has changed over the last couple of decades, since the implementation of their treaty rights.

    Economic reconciliation means we will be able to develop our own programs and unique ways of dealing with language and culture. Who are the best preservers of that, other than ourselves?

    Thank you.

    Karen, did you want to weigh in?

    Yes.

    I'm thinking about responsibility here to the self and the collective. To me, that is at the core of economic reconciliation. The Honourable Murray Sinclair, the former justice, has been heard saying time and time again that we have to know who we are and where we come from, that at the core, when we understand those two questions, we understand the responsibilities we carry in terms of advancing a better quality of life and ways of life for ourselves and the generations to come.

    If you want to cut the language a little closer to the culture, I think that could be an alternate definition of “economic reconciliation”.

    Do I have any more time, Mr. Chair?

    You have 20 seconds.

    I'll defer those 20 seconds.

    Thank you.

    We'll go to Madame Gill for 90 seconds.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    My question is for the three witnesses.

    You talked about transparency, independence and accountability from the council. What would you recommend to improve these areas, if you think improvements are needed?

    Please suggest one item each, quickly.

    I'd like Ms. Restoule to answer first, followed by Ms. Buffalo and Mr. Jules.

     What comes to mind quickly is transparency in and around the development of the bill. It was recommended by the interim committee that the bill be developed in collaboration—

    Mr. Chair, the interpretation isn't working.

    Okay.

    Let's check the interpretation before you resume. I'll pause the clock.

    It's working now. Thank you.

    Thank you very much.

    Let's proceed. Ms. Restoule, please provide your answer.

    I was referring to transparency and accountability in terms of the development of the bill. They were to occur hand in hand with the interim committee. I know there have been questions in and around whether that has been upheld. By way of process, if we're not getting that right, are we really setting ourselves up well for what's to come?

    That's just a note or a point there to consider whether the interim committee's recommendations, work, and participation have been put to the forefront of the process.

    Please answer very quickly, Ms. Buffalo.

    In terms of transparency and accountability, it really comes down to access to information when trying to assess outcomes. It's really paramount that the national committee on reconciliation have the authority to request and require both provincial and federal governments, as well as institutions, to provide the information moving forward. If that could come as a legislative matter, it would really empower the committee to gain this information as the committee becomes established in operation. I think that's really critical.

    Thank you, Ms. Buffalo.

    We'll now go to Ms. Idlout for 90 seconds.

     [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᐋ, ᐅᕙᓂ ᒪᓕᒐᑦᓴᕐᒥ 12-ᑏ, ᓇᓗᓇᐃᕆᓯᒪᒻᒪᑦ ᑖᒃᑯᐊᒎᖅ, ᐋ, ᐃᓚᓕᐅᑎᓇᔭᖅᑐᒃᓴᐅᔪᑦ ᑲᑎᒪᔨᒃᓴᐅᓇᔭᖅᑐᐃᑦ ᒪᒃᑯᑦᑐᑦ ᐊᕐᓇᐃᑦ ᐊᖑᑏᑦ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ, ᐋ, ᐃᓛ ᓇᓗᓇᐃᕆᓯᒫ-ᓂᓐᖏᑦᑐᑦ ᐊᕐᓇᐃᑦ ᐊᖑᑎᓪᓘᓐᓃᑦ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐃᓚᑰᒋᒐᒃᑯ, ᐋ, ᐃᓚᓕᐅᑎᔪᒥᓇᕆᒐᒃᑯᓪᓕ ᐃᓐᓇᑐᖃᕐᓂᖅ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᑕᒪᕐᒥᒃ ᑭᐅᔪᓐᓇᕈᑦᓯ ᓇᐃᑦᑐᒥᐅᒐᓗᐊᖅ ᐃᓐᓇᑐᖃᐃᑦ ᐃᓚᓕᐅᑎᓯᒪᔭᕆᐊᖃᕐᐸᑕᖃᐃ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you.

    I'll be referring to paragraph 12(b) of the bill.

    What will the national council be composed of? Will it include women, youths, and elders?

    I would like to see elders represented on this national council.

[English]

    If anybody wants to comment, you have about 15 seconds.

    I'll quote an old friend of mine, Dennis Saddleman, a poet:

    

    I don't think any wiser words were given as a direction to truth and reconciliation.

    Thank you, Chief Commissioner Jules.

    On that note, I would like to thank our panellists today. We very much appreciate your coming and providing your testimony.

    Thank you very much to Karen Restoule, founder of Bold Realities; Karla Buffalo, CEO of the Athabasca Tribal Council; and of course, Chief Commissioner Clarence (Manny) Jules of the First Nations Tax Commission.

    Thank you for making yourselves available to answer our questions today.

    With that, we will suspend the committee just momentarily as we prepare for our second panel.

    Thank you again.

     We are now resuming with our second panel for today.

    Thank you to the witnesses who are joining us. We're still waiting for Ms. Stanovich of the Indigenous Women of the Wabanaki Territories, who is going to arrive imminently in person. We also have with us Jacqueline Prosper, lead of treaty education, Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey, and Celeste Sulliman, director of treaty education, Nova Scotia Office of L'nu Affairs—I hope I said that reasonably well. Mr. Garry Bailey, president of the Northwest Territory Métis Nation, is also appearing with us virtually.

    To our witnesses, as you know, you will each be given five minutes to make an opening statement, and then we'll proceed with questions. Please wait till I give you the go-ahead to speak. Please speak through the chair, and please mute yourself when you are not on.

    You have translation capabilities in three languages—French, English and Inuktitut—available to you today.

    Without further ado, I'm going to ask Ms. Jacqueline Prosper to provide a five-minute opening statement, which you can share with your colleague Ms. Sulliman, or you can use the time yourself.

     Thank you.

    Kwe, good afternoon. Wela'lioq for inviting me to appear before the committee today to speak to Treaty Education Nova Scotia's support in Nova Scotia's work toward reconciliation.

    Teluisi Jacqueline Prosper. I am the treaty education lead for Nova Scotia with Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey.

    Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey is a unified team of chiefs, staff, parents and educators who advocate and represent the educational interests of our Mi'kmaq communities.

    Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey and the Office of L'nu Affairs have had a unique working relationship in this amazing effort from the time when the first MOU was signed in 2015. Since then, the initiative continues to grow and develop, so much so that in 2020 a new MOU was signed with no end date. We work in partnership with the Office of L'nu Affairs as well as with the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development; Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage; the Public Service Commission; and community and provincial schools.

    I work collaboratively with OLA in its work with public servants and the general public, although my work is mainly focused on education. I work closely with EECD, Mi'kmaq service branch, elders, knowledge-keepers, teachers and parents on this education initiative of incorporating treaty education into the provincial school curriculum.

    Due to the success of the first five years, Treaty Education Nova Scotia has developed a strategic plan to guide the organization's activities over the next five years. In the spirit of reconciliation, the purpose of our project charter is to codify how this project will be governed and managed, while providing clarification on roles and responsibilities of key partners and collaborators related to achieving the objectives outlined in the new strategic plan. This deepens our understanding of the shared responsibility between the Mi'kmaq and the non-indigenous people of Nova Scotia to build a better future, foster ongoing conversations and cultivate allies through lifelong learning about our treaty relationship.

    We know our partner organizations are all working towards reconciliation and include treaty education in their portfolios. A strategic plan will help support richer communication on the work, support us in working together more collaboratively in reaching all Nova Scotians and build stronger relationships.

    With all of the accomplishments, there is still much work to be done. The commitment is strong in working together. We welcome collaborating across the province and country and the prospects of sharing best practices. Celeste and I are dedicated to continuing the necessary work to continue to answer the calls to action of reconciliation.

    Again, wela'lioq for allowing me to appear before you today.

    Thank you very much, Ms. Prosper.

    We'll now go to Mr. Garry Bailey. Mr. Bailey, you will have five minutes.

     Good morning. Thank you for allowing me the time to appear before the standing committee.

    My name is Garry Bailey. I'm president of the Northwest Territory Métis Nation.

    The Métis Nation is composed of indigenous Métis members from Fort Smith Métis Council, Hay River Métis Government Council and Fort Resolution Métis government. We estimate our membership throughout Canada to be over 3,000 members.

    The Northwest Territory Métis Nation is in the final stages of negotiating a land claim and self-government agreement with the Government of Canada and the Government of the Northwest Territories.

    The Northwest Territory Métis Nation has a government-to-government relationship with the Government of Canada and the Northwest Territories. As part of the commitments of the NWT Devolution Agreement, the NWT Métis Nation is a member of the NWT Intergovernmental Council, with the Government of Northwest Territories and other indigenous governments, which addresses all aspects of government relations in the NWT.

    The Northwest Territory Métis Nation is a member of the Arctic and northern policy framework with Canada and the GNWT. The Northwest Territory Métis Nation is not and cannot be represented by the five national aboriginal organizations, as the mandate of those aboriginal organizations preclude the representation of the Northwest Territory Métis Nation. The Northwest Territory Métis Nation has a right to be involved at a national level.

    A truth and reconciliation report defined reconciliation as follows:

    The UN declaration provided a promise to protect and enhance our rights as part of the fulfillment of reconciliation. These include the right to self-determination and self-government; the right to equality and non-discrimination; the right to promote and enhance our culture and language; the rights to our lands, territories and resources; the right to provide our free, prior and informed consent for any development on our lands; the right to receive adequate health care and education; and the right to develop indigenous institutions and legal systems. Transformation, action and measures are required to successfully implement the UN declaration.

    For reconciliation to be implemented some actions are required, including appropriate shared decision-making, co-management arrangements between indigenous nations and government, evolution of federal programs from services to indigenous nations, adequate funding to implement true self-government, expedited resolution of outstanding land and resource matters, the timely conclusion of land claim negotiations, and the honourable implementation of treaties and land claim agreements.

    The Métis Nation strongly supports the establishment of a national council for reconciliation. It is important that the national council for reconciliation be permanent, independent, indigenous-led and well resourced.

    Some of the functions of an independent national council for reconciliation would be to develop and implement a multi-year national action plan to advance efforts in reconciliation, conduct research on promising practices that advance efforts for reconciliation, educate the public about indigenous peoples' realities and histories, stimulate dialogue, and address all matters that the independent council determines are necessary to advance reconciliation.

    The national council for reconciliation must be well financed in order to be meaningful and must engage with indigenous governments.

     Given this important work that will be undertaken by the national council for reconciliation, it is important that the national council include one representative from the Northwest Territory Métis Nation on the council's board of directors. Upon establishment of a national council for reconciliation, the Northwest Territory Métis Nation requests that a director's seat on the national council be set aside for the Northwest Territory Métis Nation. It is important that the indigenous Métis of the Northwest Territories have a voice on a national council for reconciliation.

    Thank you.

    Thank you very much, Mr. Bailey.

    We'll now go to Ms. Stanovich. Ms. Stanovich, you have five minutes.

     Good afternoon, honourable committee members. Thank you for inviting the Indigenous Women of the Wabanaki Territories to speak on this important bill.

    First I would like to graciously acknowledge that we are gathering on unceded, unsurrendered territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin nation.

    Bill C-29, an act to provide for the establishment of a national council for reconciliation, is an important bill. However, we were devastated to read that indigenous women have not been included in the bill.

    This bill establishes a national council for reconciliation as an independent, non-political, permanent and indigenous-led organization whose purpose is to advance the efforts for reconciliation with indigenous peoples.

    Clause 10 indicates that the national council for reconciliation includes three national indigenous organizations, as opposed to five. IWWT is disappointed that the Native Women's Association of Canada has been excluded. NWAC is a unique, inclusive, representative voice that ensures a MMIWG lens is applied, especially as it relates to human safety and security.

    NWAC is made up of provincial and territorial member associations, PTMAs, from each province or territory. These are grassroots, not-for-profit organizations. IWWT is one of these organizations. It is our duty to listen and elevate the voice of grassroots women to the national level. Through NWAC, we do just that. By not including NWAC, you are excluding the voice of the women. An indigenous woman is the centre wheel of life. She's the heartbeat of the people. She's not just in the home; she's in the community. She is the nation.

    The bill responds to truth and reconciliation calls to action numbers 53 to 55. This call to action is essential, since it will legislate implementation of all 94 calls to action.

    As you know, implementation is the most important part of any measure intended to redress harms. Call to action 53 requires that all levels of government provide annual reports or any current data requested by the national council for reconciliation, so that it can report the progress towards reconciliation.

     The reports or data would include, but not be limited to, the number of aboriginal children in care, comparative funding for the education of first nations children on and off reserve, progress on closing gaps, progress on eliminating an overrepresentation of aboriginal children in custody, progress on reducing the rate of criminal victimization of aboriginal people and progress on reducing the overrepresentation of incarcerated aboriginal people. The key areas for reporting under calls to action 53 to 55 are in areas where residential school abuses and colonialism are reflected in intergenerational trauma.

    On December 21, 2021, Bill C-15, an act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, received royal assent. As a reminder, article 7(2) of the declaration states the following:

    Though Canada recognizes five national indigenous organizations, including the Native Women's Association of Canada, only three NIOs will be mandated to the board of directors for the national council for reconciliation. Excluding NWAC from the national discussions on implementation of truth and reconciliation is a significant rejection to the organization that is a recognized expert on matters related to indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQIA+ people. The people represented by NWAC face high rates of institutional betrayal, incarceration, violence and abuse, all issues that should be central to any discussions to reconciliation.

     Having an NWAC representative on the board of directors of the national council for reconciliation will ensure that the process is inclusive and that the voices of indigenous women and gender-diverse people are considered.

    We are valued leaders, decision-makers and knowledge-keepers in our families, communities and governments. Without our perspectives, discussions are unlikely to consider gender-based solutions to undoing systematic discrimination caused by colonialism and patriarchy. This is about equity and about reclaiming matriarchal leadership.

    I signed the NWAC-Canada accord under the impression that Canada committed to considering the distinct perspectives of indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQI+ people. Not including NWAC in this very important bill is not upholding Canada's commitment to indigenous women. Not doing so in this instance will set a—

    Ms. Stanovich, could I ask you to wrap up, please?

    Okay.

    Not doing so in this instance will set a devastating precedent for this country and globally against the current backdrop of proven genocide against indigenous women and girls.

    Honourable members, IWWT is therefore requesting that the bill be amended in clause 10 to include one director on the board of the national council for reconciliation.

    I can stop there.

    Thank you very much, Ms. Stanovich. Perhaps you'll have a chance to expand in the question period as well.

    We'll now go to that question period, beginning with, I believe, Mr. Melillo for six minutes.

    Thank you.

    We're going to give it to Mr. Zimmer to start.

    Thank you, Mr. Melillo.

    Thank you, Chair.

    My question will be for Garry Bailey, the president of the Northwest Territory Métis Nation.

    It's an honour to have you here today, Garry.

    Since our conversation is obviously about reconciliation, I have an article from Cabin Radio that was written just after the 2021 election. It quotes you as saying:

    Could you please explain?

    Okay. Thank you.

    As you know, we've been left out of the treaties since they started to be signed in our territory in 1899, with another one in 1921. Up until then, the first nations had been fully funded. The Métis Nation has never received funding of any sort, and we've been left out of the treaties. We've been negotiating our land claim ever since 1996. We were part of the Dene Métis before that, before it failed in 1990. Due to that, we haven't had any opportunities economically or anything like that so we could get on with business and take our place in our country. We have no land and we have no funding coming in for the resources that have been taken out of our territory, so it is important for reconciliation to finalize our land claims so that we can get our land and cash transfer, be recognized as a government with authority over our land and get into economic development, which includes joint ventures and so on.

    Thank you, Garry.

    I have one more quick question and then I'll pass it over to my colleague.

    Economic reconciliation has been brought up several times today just by the witnesses, but it isn't in Bill C-29. Do you think Bill C-29 should include economic reconciliation specifically?

    I do think so. I think it definitely is part of the reconciliation aspect of it due to the fact that we've been left out, as I've mentioned. We have to catch up. We definitely need something to move forward with as soon as possible.

    Thank you, Garry.

    I'll pass it over to my colleague Mr. Melillo.

    Thank you, Mr. Zimmer.

    Thank you to all of our witnesses for joining us today and for your testimony so far. You've already given us a lot to think about.

    For my question, I want to go first to Ms. Stanovich.

    Obviously, as you said quite clearly in your opening remarks, you believe the Native Women's Association should have a seat at the table. That's something we've heard from other witnesses. From my time serving on the committee, I know that the Native Women's Association has been overlooked in past legislation as well. I'm thinking of the government's UNDRIP legislation in the last Parliament as well, on which the Native Women's Association was also not consulted.

    I'm wondering if you could expand on why you view it as being important that there be a dedicated seat on the council for a women's advocate, in terms of matriarchal importance in first nation culture, which I think you were getting into before you ran out of time.

     Prior to colonialization, we were the matriarchs in our society, the women. The women led the society. The men would go hunting. They'd bring the food home to the women, and they would divvy it up. We're the nurturers and the caretakers of our families, so a bill like this is something we definitely should have a voice on.

    The Native Women's Association of Canada is a collective voice from coast to coast of all the PTMAs and all the women in each province and territory—the mothers, the grandmothers, the aunties, even the little girls. In my territory, we listen to our children because they're the future. Their voice gets elevated through me to NWAC to you, if they're on the committee.

    I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

    I'll ask you my second question as well, now that I have you in the hot seat, and perhaps we only have time for one or two here.

    We've heard a lot of concerns as well about the fact that there's no direct funding available for this council and that there really aren't any specified, measurable goals for the council set out in the bill. Do you have any concerns around that? Do you have suggestions for this committee on how we can better incorporate some more measurable goals for the council to work on?

    One would definitely be working with NWAC. I don't know if you've seen their action plan. They had an action plan before the Government of Canada, so by including the Native Women's Association of Canada, you can get those deliverables.

    We need reconcili-action—not reconciliation, but reconcili-action.

    I appreciate that.

    Mr. Chair, I think that's pretty much all the time.

    Yes, it is. Thank you.

    Mr. Eric Melillo: Okay. Thank you.

    The Chair: We'll now go to Mr. Battiste for six minutes.

    Thank you very much.

    I'm going to direct some questions at Treaty Education Nova Scotia.

    One of the functions of Bill C-29 is to conduct research on promising practices that advance efforts for reconciliation in all sectors of Canadian society by all governments in Canada and at the international level. I know there are a lot of calls to action that speak to education: call to action 10, call to action 62 and call to action 63. I'm wondering if Treaty Education could give us a little bit of a glimpse into why there is an important element of education in reconciliation. Do you feel it's important for provincial governments to be a part of reconciliation moving forward?

    I know Ms. Sulliman didn't get a chance to speak, so maybe we can start with her, and then we can go to Jacqueline after that.

     Yes, the treaty education initiative in Nova Scotia is unique because it is an equal partnership between the province and L'nu through Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey.

     The really interesting piece of this collaboration is that it is co-led between the Office of L'nu Affairs and Jacqueline at MK, but all Nova Scotians have the opportunity to learn about our treaty relationship through the lens of four foundational questions.

     Who are the Mi'kmaq historically and today? What are the treaties and why are they important? What has happened to the treaty relationship? What are we doing to reconcile our shared history and ensure justice and equity?

     We direct our education to three audiences. Jacqueline spoke about her focus through MK and the public school system as public education, and that's one of the three Ps that we focus on. The other two Ps are public service employees and the general public or the public writ large.

    Essentially, we focus reconciliation through treaty education. We focus on all Nova Scotians and not just on what's happening in the schools, and it's not just what's happening in L'nu schools, but what's happening in public schools as well.

     Really, through all the collaborative work we are doing, we are trying to educate, to essentially respond to calls to action that call, for example, for the education of public service employees. At the Office of L'nu Affairs, we have engaged thousands of public service employees, in person and online, in the delivery of workshops and presentations. We've created learning materials.

     We've hosted events throughout the province, and we have a really strong social media presence as well. The Treaty Education Nova Scotia Facebook page now has over 10,000 followers, which, for a small initiative in a small province, is a lot of people following our work, engaging with us regularly and asking us questions.

    The collaborative work that we do together is really important, and we feel that it's the responsibility of municipalities, education systems, provincial governments, the federal government and all organizations of all types and stripes to work together to advance reconciliation. We welcome people to participate in our work and in the initiatives that we're doing.

    Thank you, Celeste.

     I want to ask a question. Maybe Jacqueline can guide a discussion.

    Call to action 57 calls for indigenous professional development for public servants. Do you think this is an important thing that should be reflected within Bill C-29, maybe in the preamble? Do you think this is an important new dimension in this legislation?

    I believe so. I think that the more people who work on the initiative, the more work gets done. As a small group of people who support the direct initiative here, being able to have somewhere to go for support in those things, absolutely.... The more people who are hands on, the easier the work gets. It's a big project. As I mentioned before, we're learning that we have no shortage of work.

    Part of Bill C-29 is that there's a budget. In the 2019 budget, there was an amount of $126.5 million over the next few years to help the committee with oversight.

    From the perspective of a provincial role and from a Mi'kmaq perspective, where do you think some of the money should be going in terms of moving forward on reconciliation within education?

    I would say definitely in producing resources to support teachers and administrators in teaching about reconciliation and including the stories that have not been included in teachers' professional development. We know that teachers are anxious and excited to do the work. They're nervous about getting it wrong, so the more support we can give them in providing all of those resources, the better.

     Thank you.

    I'm sorry; we've reached our time. We'll go to Madame Gill.

    Mrs. Gill, you have six minutes.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    I'd also like to thank each of the witnesses for their opening remarks.

    I have a few questions for Ms. Stanovich about the representation of women on the National Council for Reconciliation. It was touched on briefly earlier in this meeting, but in fact we haven't heard much about the lack of women, particularly from a national organization like the Native Women's Association of Canada. I took note of it, especially since we know, Mr. Chair, that women make up half the population. It's all the more surprising since, as Ms. Stanovich said, these are predominantly matriarchal societies. I understood that Ms. Stanovich was saying that there had to be a place for women.

    I would like to know if she thinks an organization representing women would consider that there could be a gender‑based analysis in the actions that will be taken by the council.

    I didn't catch the last part.

    Mr. Chair, I think it's because I said it in French, and the expression isn't exactly the same in English.

    Would having an organization such as the Native Women's Association of Canada on the council ensure that a gender‑based analysis is done in the decisions and actions that are taken?

    I'm not sure if that's clearer.

    Yes.

    Great.

    Can you expand on that and tell us what this would bring to the analysis?

    I do think it would have good results to use the GBA.

    So you think that the Native Women's Association of Canada could contribute in that way. I also think it could ensure that it's part of the analytical tools for decisions.

    I have another question for you.

    Aside from having the Native Women's Association of Canada represented on the council, would you also like to see gender parity on the council?

    Yes.

    My questions are very simple, Mr. Chair, but it's easier for the committee when it's very clear.

    That concludes my questions about representativeness.

    For the benefit of the committee, I would like to invite Ms. Stanovich to talk to us about “reconciliaction”. Of course, we've heard all kinds of variations on the word “reconciliation”. I'd like her to tell us what she means by that term and perhaps give us some examples. I think it's about expectations. It may not be worded that way in Bill C‑29, but perhaps defining this term will allow the committee to ask other questions to find ways to implement this “reconciliaction”.

    “Reconcili-action” is taking action on the wrongs of the past.

    In my opinion, when it comes to things like child and family, you don't take children from families. You keep them and the family together at all costs.

    More dollars need to go towards prevention, because we carry intergenerational wounds. It's in our DNA, so there needs to be more focus on healing and getting back to our roots. That's taking action: giving back what was stolen, giving back our language, giving back our culture and our way of life—hunting, gathering, living off the land.

    The way of society today is not what's in our hearts and our DNA, so it takes us off balance. Even when you think of time, there are 13 moons, not 12 months. The moon doesn't lie, nor does the turtle's back, where there are 28 days and 13 moons. That takes us off the heartbeat of the earth. That's reconcili-action: getting back to the land and getting back that relationship.

    When we were colonized, the laws of the land and the people were ignored, and that's why society is so off balance. “Reconcili-action” is getting back to what we once had.

    If I understand correctly, Ms. Stanovich, you want the council to be more than symbolic. You want concrete action that leads to change, rather than just words and good faith.

    Do I have that right?

     Yes.

    Thank you, Ms. Stanovich.

    That will be all, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

    Go ahead, Ms. Idlout. You have six minutes.

    [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ ᑕᒪᕐᒥᒃ, ᐋ, ᐃᓘᓐᓇᓰᓛᒃ ᐅᓂᒃᑳᕆᐊᖅᑐᓵᖅᑐᓯ, ᐋ, ᐱᒻᒪᕆᐅᔪᓂᒃ ᐅᖃᓪᓚᑦᑐᐃᓐᓇᐅᓵᖅᓱᓯ ᓈᓚᑦᑎᐊᓵᖅᓱᖓᓗ, ᐊᒻᒪᓗ, ᐋᒻ, ᐳᕌᓐᑎ ᐅᖃᐅᑎᕙᒌᑐᐃᓐᓇᕈᒪᕙᒋᑦ ᐊᖏᖃᑎᒋᑦ-ᓯᐊᕋᒃᑭ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᐊᕐᓇᐃᑦ ᑎᒥᖓ, ᐋ, ᑎᒃᑯᐊᖅᑕᐅᖃᑕᐅᖁᔭᑎᑦ ᐊᒃᓱᕉᑎᒋᖃᑕᐅᓂᐊᖅᐸᕋ, ᐋ, ᐊᓯᔾᔨᕆᐊᖁᓗᒍ ᑖᓐᓇ ᒪᓕᒐᑦᓴᖅ ᐃᓚᓕᐅᑎᖁᔭᐅᓗᒍ ᖃᐅᔨᒪᕙᒌᖅᑎᑦᓱᒪᑐᐃᓐᓇᖅᐸᒋᑦ. ᐋᒻ, ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᕋᒪ ᔭᑲᓚᓐ ᐳᕌᔅᐳᕐᒧᑦ, ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᐅᐱᒋᒐᒃᑭ ᖃᐅᔨᒪᓂᐊᖅᐸᒋ, ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᒥᒡᒪ ᑭᓇᒫᒃᓂᕗᐃ ᒪᒥᐊᓇᖅ ᑕᒻᒪᕋᒃᑯ ᐅᖃᑦᓯᐊᖏᓐᓇᒃᑯ ᐃᐊᒻᑮᓚᑲᑕᑐᐃᓐᓇᓂᐊᖅᐳᖓ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᑐᓴᐅᒪᒐᑦᓯ ᐅᐱᒋᕙᑦᓯ, ᓯᓚᑦᑐᓴᕐᕕᒻᒥᒃ ᒪᓕᒐᓕᕆᓂᕐᒥᒃ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕆᐊᖅᓯᒪᑎᓪᓗᖓ ᔫᓂᕘᕐᓯᑎ ᐊᑉ ᐋᑐᐋᒥᒃ ᓯᕗᕐᓕᕐᒥ ᖃᐅᔨᓚᐅᖅᓯᒪᒐᑦᓯ ᐸᐃᑉᐹᕐᒥ ᑎᑎᕋᓚᐅᖅᓯᒪᓪᓗᖓ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐸᐃᑉᐹᖅ ᑎᑎᕋᖅᑕᕋ, ᐋ, ᖃᓄᖅ ᐱᐅᓂᖅᓴᐅᑎᒋᒻᒪᖓᖅ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕐᓂᖅ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᓃᓐᖔᕋᒥ ᑖᓐᓇ, ᐋ, ᖃᐅᔨᒋᐊᖅᐸᓪᓕᐊᓪᓗᒍ ᖃᐅᔨᓚᐅᖅᓯᒪᒐᒪ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᐊᒻᑮᒃᑯᑦ ᐊᐅᓚᑦᑎᐊᖅᑐᐊᓘᒻᒪᑕ, ᐋ, ᐃᓱᓕᑦᑎᐊᖅᑐᐊᓘᕙᒻᒪᑐᒎᖅ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᖅᑐᖁᑎᓯ ᖁᒡᕙᓂᖅᓴᐅᒑᓂᓪᓗᑎᒎᖅ ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕌᓂᒃᐸᓪᓕᐊᔪᑦ, ᑖᓐᓇ ᐅᓂᒃᑲᐅᑎᒃᑲᓐᓂᕈᓐᓇᖅᐱᐅᒃ, ᐋ, ᑖᒃᑯᐊ ᐃᐊᒻᑮᒃᑯᓯᒍᑦ ᖃᓄᖅ ᐃᓱᓕᑦᑎᑦᑎᐊᖅᑐᐊᓘᕙᒻᒪᒑᑦᓯ ᐊᒻᒪᓗ ᖃᓄᐃᒻᒪ ᑕᒪᓐᓇ ᐊᑐᖅᑕᐅᒋᐊᖃᕐᒪᖔᑦ ᑐᑭᓯᔭᐅᒋᐊᖃᕐᒪᖔᑦ ᑖᓐᓇ ᐱᔾᔪᑎᒋᓗᐊᖅᓱᒍ ᓰ-29 ᐃᓂᒃᑲᐅᑎᒋᑎᓪᓗᑎᒍ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you, everyone, for your presentations. What you have presented is very important, so I am listening very carefully.

    Ms. Brandy Stanovich, I agree with you 100%. Since we have our own women's organization, I will be in full support of your endeavour there.

    I have a question for Ms. Jacqueline Prosper. I want you to know that I am proud of you. The Mi'k.... I cannot really pronounce it, so I'll just refer to it as MK., I have heard of you and I am proud of you.

    When I was studying law here at the University of Ottawa, I wrote a paper on how education is better implemented when it comes from the roots of the land, from the roots of our people, because it is said that those who use their roots as a base for education produce more educated pupils.

    How do you plan to implement these recommendations?

[English]

    I'm sorry, but I only heard my name. I didn't get any translation, but I can see Celeste nodding. Did it go to you? I'm not sure if you can answer.

    I'll repeat the question.

    I've heard of MK, Mi’kmaw Kina’matnewey. I heard of the organization when I was in law school at the University of Ottawa.

    I did a paper on a comparison between education through indigenous-led organizations like MK and a government organization, a governing body, and used the Government of Nunavut as an example.

    In my comparison, I found that MK had great success. You had higher graduation rates. You had many better results than a public education system for our first nations graduates. I think that you are such an important example that more Canadians need to learn from.

    Having said that, I want to uplift the great work that you do, and wonder if you have any recommendations for ensuring that this national board will have the same success in educating more people about the importance of reconciliation and using an indigenous lens to educate our populations.

    Qujannamiik.

    I think that occupying seats on a board, as such, would be important in being able to share best practices and knowledge about the journey and being able to provide that support to have a richer education for students, absolutely.

     Mr. Chair, could I just interrupt and recommend that all the witnesses make sure they have the interpretation channel selected. That would be great.

    Yes, that's a good point.

    If any of the witnesses are not sure about how to choose the interpretation, please let the clerk know so that we can show you how to do it.

    In the meantime, I've stopped the clock.

    Madam Idlout, you still have two minutes.

    Ms. Prosper just had her hand up for the interpretation channel.

    Okay. We'll stop and wait until somebody shows her how to do the interpretation.

    In actual fact, if you look at the bottom of your screen, you'll see a small globe. It says “interpretation”. Hit that; then hit whatever language you want to hear it in. If it's English, hit the “English” button. Then the translation will be provided to you.

    Is that okay?

    I see your head nodding.

    With that, let's go for two minutes.

     [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᐋ, ᔮᑲᓚᓐᒧᑦ ᐊᐱᕆᒃᑲᓐᓂᖅᐳᖓ ᑖᒃᑯᐊ, ᐋ, ᐃᓕᓐᓂᐊᕐᔪᑎᒋᔭᑦᓯᓐᓂ ᐃᓗᓕᖏᓐᓂ ᐅᓂᒃᑲᐅᑎᔪᓐᓇᖅᐱᑎᒎ ᖃᐅᔨᕚᓪᓕᕐᓂᐊᕋᑦᑕ ᖃᓄᖅ ᑲᔪᓯᓲᖑᒻᒪᖓᑦᓯ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you. I have a question for Jacqueline.

    In the studies that you took, can you tell us how you proceed after you do your studies? Thank you.

[English]

    My work with Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey is primarily with treaty education. There are individuals within the organization, if you reach out to them, who would be better to answer that question. Blaire Gould, the executive director, would be the one to reach out to. She can direct any of your questions where necessary.

     [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦ, ᐋᒻ, ᑭᖑᓪᓕᕐᒥ ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᖅᐳᖓ ᒋᐅᕆ ᐸᐃᓕᒧᑦ, ᐋ, ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᖅᑎᒍᐃᓛᒃ, ᐋᒻ, ᓇᒻᒥᓂᖅ ᒪᓕᒐᖃᓚᐅᖅᓯ-ᒪᒐᓗᐊᕋᑦᑕ ᑖᓇᓕ ᓰ-29 ᐃᓗᐊᓂ ᐃᓱᒪᑦᓴᖅᓯᐅᖅᓯᒪᕖᑦ ᖃᓄᖅ ᓴᖅᑮᒃᑲᓐᓂᕈᓐᓇᕐᒪᖔᑦᑕ ᓄᓇᖃᖅᑳᖅᓯᒪᔪᐃᑦ ᒪᓕᒐᖏᓐᓂᒃ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you. I will now ask a question to Garry Bailey.

    We as indigenous people had our own loss. In regard to Bill C-29, have you given any thought as to how we can revitalize those laws that existed before contact? Thank you.

[English]

    Thank you.

    We have given thought to it. The right to self-determination, self-government, is the venue we're using for that. The biggest thing is getting out to our people and talking with our people and getting a grasp of all the past on how things used to be. That's the track that we have to go down in order to get back to those old ways.

    I think it's very important to be doing that. As you know, here in the Northwest Territories we've been getting some on-the-land programs and stuff like that, healing programs that have really benefited our people when it comes to staying on the right side of the law, say, or dealing with their addictions and so on. I think it's very important to get back to those ways and not look at the government system. They just pretty well put you in a cell and feed you and kick you out. They don't really deal with any issues, so yes, we're definitely looking into that venue.

    Thank you, Ms. Idlout.

    Colleagues, we can go for a quick second round. Again we'll start with the Conservatives. I have Mr. Zimmer there, but whoever it is, it's for three minutes.

    Thank you again, Mr. Chair.

    My last question is to Garry Bailey once again, president of the Northwest Territory Métis Nation.

    The same Cabin Radio article from 2021 refers to the reconciliation process, but it says action needs to happen much faster. You're quoted as saying, “Things have been going very slowly. I think they’ve got to quit talking and start walking the walk.”

    Please explain.

     Thank you. I've been involved in negotiations. I'm 49 years old now, and I've been doing this since 1997. I've been at the table negotiating the land claim. It hasn't made any movement. Government does have a lot of good talk. Right now they're looking even at reconciliation. Reconciliation is a big part of settling land claims as well, recognizing the past that's happened to the aboriginal people.

    There has been no movement at all on our negotiations. They have slowed down the processes by having sessions every two months and so on. They haven't dealt with the major issues.

    We have four issues. We do a lot of drafting. Sometimes it's repetitive, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, but for anything that could be meaningful and have movement on our process, I've never, ever, been given any kind of direction. The negotiators have no real authority to move a process forward. They're just pretty well the people who come and hear you out, and then they go back and talk to others, and there's no decision-making there at all.

    Thanks. I'm sorry to cut you off, Garry. I just have to pass it along. My colleague Eric Melillo has another question. Thank you.

    Thank you. That's great teamwork here, Mr. Zimmer.

    I'm going to ask another question to you, Mr. Bailey. I hope to get everyone's comments on this, but I just don't think we have the time. I asked the same question to Ms. Stanovich in my last round and, keeping in the theme of what Mr. Zimmer just asked about making sure that we're taking action, do you have any more specific suggestions in terms of measurable outcomes that could be included in this bill that you might not have had the chance to share yet?

     No. As you said, they really need to follow up with the self-determination and treating everybody equally. I think that's very important in order to settle the land claims. They have to give us the rights to our lands in order for us to make any kind of movement forward on economics and so on. In order to do that, they have to settle the land claims, and then we'll have our freedom in prior and informed consent. We'd be able to move forward with our initiatives of getting health care and education.

    All that is stemmed in land claims. It's to be treating us equitably and giving those negotiators a real mandate that gives them the authority to negotiate, rather than just coming with a take-it-or-leave-it method.

    Thank you, Mr. Melillo.

    We'll have to go to Mr. McLeod now for three minutes.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

     Thank you to all the presenters today.

    My question is for Garry Bailey from NWT Métis.

     The process of reconciliation is right across our country, and the national council for reconciliation is the oversight body that will monitor what is going on. There seem to be challenges historically, and even to this day, of who represents whom.

    You were pretty clear in your comments that you're not represented by any of the national indigenous organizations. Does that mean that there is no body out there that represents you at the national level? Do you participate in some of the other organizations, such as the self-governing indigenous governments, SGIGs or Land Claims Agreements Coalition?

    We are not part of anything. I'd say pretty freely that we aren't part of the Land Claims Agreements Coalition either, because we don't have a settled claim. We're not part of the Métis National Council. We don't qualify to be part of them, nor did we ever really want to be part of that, because we are stand-alone and we are unique and on our own here in the Northwest Territories as Métis, so we represent ourselves.

    We are part of the devolution agreement, as I mentioned, with GNWT. We have always acted as our own government. That's why it's very important for us to get our own seat. I believe we have our own issues here north of 60 that we need to bring forward when it comes to dealing with reconciliation. I know that we have our own vision, and without talking to anybody nationally about these things, I think this is the place that we need to be in order to be able to bring those issues forward, and who knows? It might benefit nationally, because I'm sure other people would be able to relate to the issues we have.

    Thank you.

     My next question is around.... This board is going to provide oversight over many different things: truth and reconciliation recommendations, UNDRIP, land claims, everything that falls under the title “reconciliation”.

    How important do you think it is that there are survivors of the residential school system included as part of the board? We have a high number of people in the Northwest Territories who attended residential schools, so I want to hear your opinion.

    We'll need a pretty quick answer, Mr. Bailey.

    I would definitely not oppose that when we're talking about reconciliation. They were the ones who were the true founders of the land, and they actually had a lot of things happen to them in the past, so I would definitely support it. It's very important to have them there when they have that knowledge.

    We hear from them, but it's always best to get them there. We've lost a lot of them already. To get them in there so that the proper history is documented, I think, is very important.

    Thank you, Mr. McLeod.

    We'll go to Madame Gill for 90 seconds.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    My question is for all the witnesses, particularly Ms. Stanovich, Mr. Bailey and Ms. Prosper.

    I know it's impossible to be completely satisfied, but do you think it's possible to have representation that would satisfy all first nations stakeholders?

    Each of the witnesses, you have about 20 seconds for your answer.

    I didn't quite understand the question.

    Is it because of the interpretation that Mr. Bailey didn't understand?

    It's possible, but I'm not sure that's the case.

    Please repeat your question.

    I want to know if, for all the witnesses, it's possible for all first nations, Métis and Inuit interests to be represented on the council.

    Interpreting the question a little bit for our witnesses, do any of you think that it is possible to have, within this proposed national council, proper representation that covers all indigenous interests?

    It's really time to say yes or no. There's not much more time, I'm afraid.

    We'll start with Ms. Stanovich.

    Yes, it is absolutely possible.

    Thank you.

    We'll go to Ms. Prosper.

    I would agree. Yes, it is possible.

    Okay. Very good.

    We'll go to Mr. Bailey.

    Yes, it is possible.

    Thank you all.

    We'll go to Ms. Idlout now for the last 90 seconds.

    [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒦᒃ, ᐋ, ᓇᐃᑦᑐᒥᒃ ᑕᒪᒃᓯ ᑭᐅᔪᓐᓇᕈᑦᓯ, ᐊᖏᕐᓗᑎᓪᓘᓐᓃᑦ ᐋᒡᒑᕐᓗᑎᓪᓘᓐᓃᑦ ᐱᒻᒪᕆᐅᖃᑕᐅᒋᕕᐅᒃ ᐃᓐᓇᑐᖃᕐᒥᒃ ᑲᑎᒪᔨᐅᔪᖅᑕᖃᕆᐊᖃᕐᒪᖔᑦ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you.

    I would like a response of either yes or no. Do you think it's important to have an elder representative on this national council?

[English]

    We'll start with Ms. Stanovich.

    Yes.

    Did you get that?

    If I understood the question, it is this: Do you think that there should be an elder on this council?

    Yes.

    Thank you.

    We'll go to Ms. Prosper.

    Yes, I think it's important to include elders and knowledge-keepers.

    Thank you.

    We'll go to Mr. Bailey.

    Yes, I think “elders” is the key word. It's not just “an elder”. We have to have elders, even from the Northwest Territories.

    Thank you.

    You have about 20 seconds, Madam Idlout.

     [Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

    ᐄ, ᐊᓯᖏᓐᓂᒃ ᐊᐱᖅᑯᑎᖃᓐᖏᑦᑐᖓ ᖁᔭᓕᕙᑦᓯ ᑕᒪᑦᓯ ᖃᐃᖅᑲᐅᒐᑦᓯ.

    [Inuktitut text interpreted as follows:]

    Thank you. I have no further questions. I thank everyone for the responses they gave.

[English]

    Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

    This brings our panel to a close.

    I'd like to thank Ms. Stanovich, Ms. Prosper, Ms. Sulliman and Mr. Bailey for giving up their time today to answer our questions and for making their opening statements on this very important piece of proposed legislation. We appreciate their candour in answering our many questions.

    With that, this panel is suspended.

    I have one quick question for the committee. I should point out to the committee that we'll be holding an additional witness meeting on Bill C-29 next Monday, deferring clause-by-clause study to the following session on Thursday, November 3, because we want to hear from the transitional committee. We haven't heard from their members, and they were very much involved in helping to produce the legislation.

    Consequently, I'm looking for unanimous consent from the members to amend the deadline for submitting amendments from this Friday at 4 p.m. to next Tuesday, November 1, at noon. This will allow us to hear from witnesses on Monday and give us a day before we submit those amendments.

    Do I have unanimous consent?

    Yes, sir, you do. There is unanimous consent around the table.

    That's excellent.

    Perhaps a question we'll bring up at our next meeting is when we'd like to get the amendments back from the legislative clerk so we can all have a bit of time to look at who has proposed which amendments before the actual meeting. I'm sure that will be possible. We'll discuss that on Thursday.

    With that, thank you very much to the committee members.

    This meeting is now adjourned.