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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 56

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

The Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security met at 3:49 p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chair, Kevin Sorenson, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Candice Bergen, Rosane Doré Lefebvre, Randall Garrison, Hon. Laurie Hawn, Russ Hiebert, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, LaVar Payne, John Rafferty, Jean Rousseau, Francis Scarpaleggia and Kevin Sorenson.

In attendance: House of Commons: Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerk . Library of Parliament: Tanya Dupuis, Analyst ; Dominique Valiquet, Analyst.

Witnesses: Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness: Anita Dagenais, Senior Director, RCMP Policy Division, Law Enforcement and Policing Branch; Agnès Lévesque, Counsel, Legal Services. Royal Canadian Mounted Police: Craig MacMillan, Director General, Adjudicative Services; Carole Bidal, Senior Counsel.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference of Wednesday, September 19, 2012, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The witnesses answered questions.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the preamble and Clause 1 was postponed.

The Chair called Clause 2.

Clause 2 carried.

On Clause 3,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 3, be amended by deleting lines 12 to 20 on page 3.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 5.

Clause 3 carried.

Clause 4 carried.

On Clause 5,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 6 and 7 on page 4 with the following:

“any person to the rank of Deputy Commissioner.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Clause 5 carried.

Clause 6 carried.

Clause 7 carried.

Clause 8 carried.

Clause 9 carried.

Clause 10 carried.

On Clause 11,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 11, be amended by adding after line 12 on page 8 the following:

“(3) Despite subsection 3(3) of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act“ for the purposes of that Act, the Public Service Superannuation Act and the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, a reservist is not deemed to be employed in the public service, as defined in subsection 3(1) of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 4.

Clause 11, as amended, carried.

Clause 12 carried.

On Clause 13,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 13, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 10 with the following:

“(a) determine the learning, training — including for harassment training — and”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 13, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 6 on page 11.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 13, be amended by deleting lines 14 to 24 on page 11.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

Clause 13 carried.

Clause 14 carried.

Clause 15 carried.

On Clause 16,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 26 on page 14 with the following:

“IV, sauf une procédure portant sur une”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 16, as amended, carried.

Clause 17 carried.

Clause 18 carried.

Clause 19 carried.

Clause 20 carried.

On Clause 21,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 21, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 3 on page 16.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Clause 21 carried.

On Clause 22,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 17 with the following:

“grievance is final and binding and is not subject to appeal to or review by any court, except for judicial review under the Federal Courts Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Clause 22 carried.

Clause 23 carried.

Clause 24 carried.

Clause 25 carried.

Clause 26 carried.

Clause 27 carried.

Clause 28 carried.

On Clause 29,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 29, be amended by deleting line 20 on page 21 to line 17 on page 23.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 6.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 29, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 30 on page 23 with the following:

“convaincu, sur la foi d’une dénonciation sous serment, qu’il existe des motifs raisonnables”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 29, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 20 on page 26 with the following:

“eu contravention.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 29, as amended, carried.

Clause 30 carried.

On Clause 31,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 31, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 6 and 7 on page 32 with the following:

“b) soit accueillir l’appel et rendre la conclusion que, selon lui, l’autorité disciplinaire”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 31, be amended by replacing lines 6 to 11 on page 33 with the following:

“respect of the case, and the Commissioner is bound to act on any findings or recommendations set out in the report.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

Clause 31, as amended, carried.

Clause 32 carried.

Clause 33 carried.

Clause 34 carried.

On Clause 35,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by deleting lines 12 to 19 on page 38.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing line 41 on page 38 with the following:

“that province may request”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing lines 27 and 28 on page 43 with the following:

“(8) The observations provided under subsection (4) by the former judge or other individual are binding and confidential and shall not be”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 6 on page 45 with the following:

“45.43 Lorsqu’elle a obtenu accès à des renseigne-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended

(a) by replacing line 28 on page 49 with the following:

“duty or function, of the Commission or the Chairperson under this”

(b) replacing line 37 on page 49 with the following:

“function of the Commission or the Chairperson, in any proceeding”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing lines 14 to 20 on page 50 with the following:

“submit to the Speaker of each House a report of the activities of the Commission during that year and its recommendations, if any. The Speaker of each House shall cause a copy of the report to be tabled in his or her House on any of the first 15 days on which that House is sitting after the day on which the Speaker receives the report.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in the French version of Clause 35, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 15 and 16 on page 51 with the following:

“(i) n’est pas visé par cette conduite,”

(b) replacing line 22 on page 51 with the following:

(iii) n’a ni vu ni entendu cette conduite ou ses

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 32 on page 51 with the following:

“a complaint concerning any”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 36 and 37 on page 55 with the following:

“peut déposer une plainte s’il est convaincu qu’il existe des motifs raisonnables d’enquêter sur la conduite, dans”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing line 31 on page 56 with the following:

“tigation of a complaint, other than a complaint initiated under subsection 45.59(1), if, in the Commissioner’s”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by deleting lines 31 to 39 on page 58.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 19 on page 61 with the following:

“commissaire, au plaignant et au membre ou à”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 26 on page 62 with the following:

“plaignant et au membre ou à l’autre personne en”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 37 on page 63 with the following:

“direct et réel dans la plainte dont la Commission est”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 7 on page 64 with the following:

“qu’ils échangent relativement à l’audience sont, pour l’ap-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by deleting lines 29 to 38 on page 64.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing lines 21 to 29 on page 65 with the following:

“(2) The Commissioner is bound to act on any findings or recommendations set out in the report and he or she shall, as soon as feasible, provide the Chairperson and the Minister with a written response indicating any further action that has been or will be taken with respect to the complaint.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by replacing lines 21 and 22 on page 65 with the following:

“(2) The Commissioner shall, within 30 days following the reception of the report, provide the Chairperson and the”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 35, be amended by adding after line 10 on page 66 the following:

“PART VII.01

CIVILIAN INVESTIGATION SERVICE

45.781 (1) The Civilian Investigation Service is established to investigate the circumstances surrounding the death of, or the occurrence of serious bodily harm to, any person while that person was in the custody of the Force.

(2) The Civilian Investigation Service shall consist of a director appointed by the Attorney General of Canada and such investigators and other employees appointed in accordance with the Public Service Employment Act as are necessary for the proper conduct of the work of the Service.

(3) The director and investigators appointed under subsection (2) are peace officers.

(4) No member or former member is eligible to be appointed as director or as an investigator.

(5) The director shall be appointed to hold office during good behaviour for a term not exceeding five years but may be removed for cause at any time by order of the Attorney General of Canada.

(6) The Civilian Investigation Service may, with the approval of the Treasury Board,

(a) engage on a temporary basis the services of persons having technical or specialized knowledge of any matter relating to the work of the Service to advise and assist it in the exercise of its functions under this Act; and

(b) fix and pay the remuneration and expenses of persons engaged pursuant to paragraph (a).

(7) If a person suffers serious bodily harm or dies while in the custody of the Force, the director shall, within 60 days after the occurrence of the death or serious bodily harm, initiate an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death or serious bodily harm.

(8) The Civilian Investigation Service shall be the lead investigator in any investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death or serious bodily harm referred to in subsection (7) and shall, in conducting the investigation, have priority over any police force or other investigative body.

(9) The director shall immediately report the results of all investigations to the Attorney General of Canada.

(10) If, in the opinion of the director, there are reasonable grounds to do so, the director shall cause an information to be laid against a member or any other person in connection with a matter that has been investigated by the Civilian Investigation Service under subsection (7) and shall refer the information to the Crown Attorney responsible for the prosecution of the offence.

(11) If a person suffers serious bodily harm or dies while in the custody of the Force, the senior member present at the time the death or serious bodily harm is discovered shall immediately notify the Civilian Investigation Service.

(12) Every member shall cooperate fully with the Civilian Investigation Service in the conduct of any investigation under subsection (7).

(13) The Governor in Council may make regulations in respect of any matter referred to in this section. ”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown, as provided on pages 767-768 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

Clause 35, as amended, carried.

Clause 36 carried.

On Clause 37,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 37, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 11 on page 72 with the following:

“quelles une personne ne peut représenter ou”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 37, as amended, carried.

Clause 38 carried.

Clauses 39 to 59 inclusive carried severally.

On Clause 60,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 60, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 38 on page 81 with the following:

“(2) La Commission peut effectuer annuelle-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 60, as amended, carried.

Clauses 61 to 76 inclusive carried severally.

On Clause 77,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 77, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 8 and 9 on page 91 with the following:

“membre et que cette dernière a eu la possibilité de les présenter au titre du paragraphe 45.57(1), la personne”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 77, be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 16 on page 97 with the following:

“with subsection 45.44(2) or (6) or 45.46(4) is”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 77, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 8 and 9 on page 98 with the following:

“(24) Si les entrées en vigueur des articles 34 et 35 de la présente loi sont concomitantes, cet”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 77, as amended, carried.

On Clause 78,

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 78, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 98 with the following:

“78. (1) Subsections (2) to (6) apply if Bill”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Candice Bergen moved, — That Bill C-42, in Clause 78, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 3 on page 104 with the following:

“aux paragraphes 45.53(1) et 45.59(1), vaut”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Candice Bergen and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 0.

Clause 78, as amended, carried.

Clauses 79 to 87 inclusive carried severally.

The Short Title carried.

The Preamble carried.

The Title carried.

The Bill , as amended, carried.

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill , as amended, to the House.

ORDERED, — That Bill C-42, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House at report stage.

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to Committee business.

At 5:15 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:17 p.m., the sitting resumed in camera.

It was agreed, — That, in relation to the study of Bill C-42, the proposed budget in the amount of $7,500 be adopted.

At 5:25 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Andrew Bartholomew Chaplin
Clerk of the Committee

2012/11/05 2:52 p.m.