LANG Committee Meeting

    Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages on this Thursday, February 26, 2015. This is our 39th meeting.

    Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are here to study managing and implementing the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018 in education, immigration and communities.

    Joining us today is Minister Shelly Glover. Welcome. We will also hear from Mr. Gauthier and Mr. Lussier, two officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

     But before we begin I have two notices of motion, I believe.

    Mr. Gravelle, you have the floor for the first notice of motion.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    I'd like to give the committee notice of motion:

    Mr. Chair, I don't know if you are aware, but the hockey games of the Montreal Canadiens are no longer broadcast in eastern Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, unless you are with Rogers. However, many places in eastern Canada don't have Rogers. I noticed that a lot of calls about that came from various communities. I even noticed that calls came from our premier's hometown. People are upset because they cannot watch the games of the Montreal Canadiens in French.

    Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.

    The second notice of motion is from Mr. Nicholls.

    My notice of motion reads as follows:

    Thank you, Mr. Nicholls.

    We will discuss these two motions during the second hour of our meeting of March 31, after the testimony of the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Hon. Chris Alexander.

    Ms. Glover.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    First, I would like to greet my friends who are here today. You are sort of like my family. I am delighted to be here again today.

    I would also like to congratulate you on the work that you do in committee. I know that you work hard and we greatly appreciate it.

    Our government contributes in many ways to the vitality of official-language communities. Your study on their economic situation will fuel our discussions about what must be done to continue to support the development of these communities. I know that in my home province of Manitoba, the Economic Development Council for Bilingual Municipalities does an amazing job. I look forward to seeing your report and recommendations.

    First let's talk about the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018: education, immigration, communities.

    We are nearing the end of the second year of implementing our roadmap. This $1.1-billion investment over five years has borne fruit across the country in the targeted sectors of education, immigration and community support.

    On education, our activities are undertaken in cooperation with our partners including those in the field of education, which is our community's number one priority.

    When I met with you last year I confirmed the renewal of our cooperation with the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada. The protocol for agreements established with the council provides for federal investments of close to $1.3 billion over five years. Bilateral agreements with the provinces and territories have since been signed according to the protocol. These agreements ensure the development and the successful functioning of education networks for minority communities and second language education.

    In concrete terms, it means that, today, more than 240,000 students from official language communities receive an education in their own language. Increasingly, these students are able to complete all of their education, from early childhood through to adulthood, in their own official language.

    In January, we announced a contribution of $4 million in support of a professional training centre for the building trade in Saint-Eustache, Quebec. This centre will be built as a result of the cooperation between two school boards: one English and one French.

     This is a winning partnership. We're working together and our young people, both anglophone and francophone, will all benefit. Last summer our government also announced a contribution of $1.2 million in support of the

    Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada.

    This is another example of our support for post-secondary training in our communities. Our government provides the necessary tools to train a solid, new generation, and this generation will in turn contribute to the future of official language communities.

    Our linguistic duality is also enriched by second-language learning. In Canada, close to 2.4 million young people are learning English or French as a second language.

    I myself learned French in immersion classes and so did my children. This is also the case for many of my colleagues. In fact, it is the first time in the history of our Parliament that there have been so many bilingual ministers from the West. They are the complete result of French immersion.

    Knowing both of our official languages is an important advantage in the labour market. Being bilingual also introduces us to another culture and broadens our horizons.

    That is the view of a growing number of Canadians. We've seen a record number of enrolments in French immersion classes this year. There are in fact more than 370,000 young people attending immersion classes in Canada, which is an increase of 18% in less than 10 years.

    Having said that, I would say that I remain concerned about the lack of opportunities to practice speaking a second language in schools and I continue to encourage my provincial and territorial colleagues to ensure these opportunities exist day to day in schools. In fact in a new protocol for agreements for education, I proposed that the provinces and territories pay special attention to measuring the acquisition of language skills and promote the sharing of best practices in this area. I am hopeful these suggestions help to improve the quality of languages attained by our students.

    Our young people can also benefit from the 7,800 scholarships and 700 summer jobs that we finance. These first-hand experiences complement classroom learning while giving them the opportunity to get to know our country better.

     We are not focusing only on our young people. Our government is also building on language training for newcomers. More than 29,000 economic immigrants are registered in language classes.

    This is a direct result of the roadmap, with immigration as one of its pillars.

    The vast majority of the 250,000 immigrants that Canada receives every year have neither English nor French as their mother tongue.

    Many of these immigrants integrate into our society through our official languages. Even though 20% of Canadians have a different mother tongue, more than 98% of our population speaks either English or French, or both.

    Our national languages are therefore a valuable integration tool. In order to make this integration easier, we support more than 40 organizations that help newcomers to settle in francophone communities outside Quebec. We also recruit qualified francophone workers from overseas through the Destination Canada job fair, which provides matching opportunities with Canadian employers. It is increasingly successful. Requests have increased from 16,000 in 2011 to more than 20,000 in 2013.

    Our actions also provide support to official language communities including direct services to citizens. We've renewed our bilateral agreements in order to help provincial and territorial governments provide services to Canadians in the language of their choice. We are talking about $16.3 million granted every year to the provinces and territories.

    But other ministries are also hard at work. For example, within the framework of the road map, networking, training, and access to health care activities are implemented by Health Canada.

    Industry Canada has been working to better understand the challenges that face communities in sectors like tourism.

    Businesses established in francophone communities in the western part of the country can benefit from the help of Western Economic Diversification Canada for their projects on the international stage.

    Arts and culture have not been left behind. I know that many of you love this topic. Our government supports a large number of cultural organizations and artists from minority communities.

    In my role as Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, I often meet young francophone and francophile artists proud of their origin, their accent and their attachment to the French language.

     They are following in the footsteps of Lisa LeBlanc, Les Hay Babies, Damien Robitaille, Caroline Savoie, and Chic Gamine. These are among the artists who received support from the Canada Council for the Arts or took part in one of the 750 musical showcases financed by Canadian Heritage in 2014.

    Lastly, let's talk about celebrations. I agree with Commissioner Fraser about the importance of promoting both of our national languages as part of high-profile events. Within a few months the greater Toronto area will host the Pan Am and Parapan Am Games. This will provide an opportunity to highlight our linguistic duality. That's why an agreement was signed with the Toronto games organizers to ensure bilingual services.

    Celebrations leading us to Canada's 150th anniversary in 2017 will also take place in the context of our commitment to promoting our official languages. They will serve as opportunities to remember that the coexistence of English and French is part of what defines us as Canadians. This year, as we celebrate 400 years of francophone presence right here in Ontario, it's important that we proclaim this loud and clear.

    In conclusion, I want to encourage you all as Parliamentarians to promote the use of both of our national languages wherever and whenever possible. Being a role model to others is important and your actions could make the difference to young aspiring Canadians who dream of being bilingual.

    My dream is to normalize French and English in minority language communities like mine in Saint Boniface, so that Canadians are never more surprised when they hear French and English being spoken, that they see it as normal, and truly, as a Canadian way of life.

    Thank you for your attention.

    Mr. Chair, I am ready to answer any questions members of the committee may have.

    Thank you, Minister.

    We have almost 45 minutes for questions and comments.

    We will begin with Mr. Godin.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    I would like to welcome the minister into her big family of the francophonie and bilingualism. I know that she is pleased to appear before us.

    There is a problem in terms of the implementation of the roadmap. It is as though the government doesn’t recognize that anglophones in Quebec and francophones outside Quebec are two separate groups.

    Minister, I remember what happened in Acadia, in New Brunswick, which is the only province designated as officially bilingual by the 1982 Constitution.

    We were forced to maintain our institutions on our own so that francophones could take care of their own schools and anglophones could have their own school boards and so on. We had to do it.

    Suppose that there are 10 people around a table. This is the reality. If only one person speaks English, that’s the language everyone will use. The same applies in schools, groups, the hallways or the schoolyard. That is what happens. It’s sad, but it’s true. So we had to stand up on the issue.

    Today, it seems a trend has emerged. It is as though, when there are meetings, the government wants the two groups to be together for consultations.

    Take RDÉE and CEDEC, for example. They are forced to work together. In your presentation, you said that people working together is a good thing, but this is causing a problem. When the two language groups work together on programs, the francophones are sometimes forced to speak English.

    Minister, don’t you think that you should be concerned about that? What do you intend to do to stop the government from continuing down this road? I am not talking about the roadmap, but the wrong map, where these communities are brought together in such contexts.

    Thank you for your question.

    First of all, I am very proud of the Canadian Heritage program that gives funds to those holding meetings such as the ones you mentioned, to RDÉE and CEDEC. Anglophones want to participate in those meetings.

    Canadian Heritage has a fund that is separate from the roadmap and that provides money for simultaneous interpretation. In this way, we are able to hear the two languages of our country and understand what those in attendance and using the language of their choice are saying. In addition, we hold consultations in our country's two official languages.

    If you are at meetings and see this happening, please try to make sure that both languages are used for the benefit of all those attending. That is what I do and I encourage you to do the same.

    I don’t understand how you don’t see the problem I am referring to.

    For instance, in New Brunswick, we had to separate them so that they could express themselves and preserve the culture. People there say that they would rather be on their own.

    They are two separate groups. The francophones in Quebec are a minority, just like the anglophones outside Quebec, but they are two separate groups. You are asking them to be together, but that’s not what the people want.

    Yes, but we also hold consultations separately. This happens often and we will continue to do so for those interested. Both situations take place.

    Could you give my question some thought and see whether anything could be done about that?

    I would like to talk about another topic, Minister.

    Are you responsible for the roadmap?

    The roadmap covers 14 departments and 28 initiatives. I play a role in horizontal coordination, but—and this is at the core of our roadmap—each department has responsibilities. I often talk with the other ministers to see how things are unfolding in their departments.

    If an organization has an issue with a department, would you, as the minister responsible for official languages, invite the organization to knock on your door for assistance in dealing with that department if the department doesn't comply with the Official Languages Act?

    That happens often, and I am always ready to listen to any concerns the organizations may have.

    I see that Marie-France Kenny from the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada is here with us today. She does a very good job.

    She and I have often held meetings to discuss the situation in the other departments. Subsequently, I have organized meetings with the departments to make sure we work together and use the roadmap as best as we can. By the way, the roadmap investment of $1.1 billion over five years is unprecedented in the history of our country.

    In terms of the roadmap, as you know, there have been delays in the funding becoming available to the groups supported by the programs. I sent you a letter on June 2, 2014, and you answered five months later. This situation has been going on for years. Former minister James Moore said that the problem was solved and that he was going to set up a program so that people no longer had to wait and use their credit cards.

    What stage are those programs at? Are you no longer behind? Are you up to date with that? As I said, a number of people were forced to use their credit cards.

    Thank you again for the question, which has two parts.

    First, I am very proud to say that Marie-France Kenny came to see me about some of the delays. I worked hard with the department to release all the files we had and she told me that some had not been released. I told her that we would work on the weekend, overtime and even at night to make sure it was done. I told her to give me the information and that we were going to do it. She wasn't able to because the people did not want to disclose the identity of the persons, but we did our best to get them out.

    There is another key point and I think you mentioned it. At the outset, some departments were lagging behind. Usually, the roadmap deals with economic diversification agencies. Since the programs were new, they had trouble starting right away. Yes, there were delays, as I said last time, but all the programs are now able to provide the funding to the organizations. So far, we have distributed $201 million through the roadmap.

    Thank you, Ms. Glover.

    Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Minister, thank you for being here with us today. It is always nice to welcome you.

    My thanks also go to Mr. Lussier and Mr. Gauthier for being here to share their expertise if necessary.

    Minister, TV5 is the French-language television channel that reaches the largest number of francophones in the world. TV5 currently broadcasts in almost 200 countries and territories, reaching 220 million households.

    How does the Department of Canadian Heritage support TV5? Furthermore, how does TV5 enable our artists and creators to have access to a larger audience?

    Thank you for the question.

    The Department for Canadian Heritage supports TV5MONDE and TV5 Québec Canada through some quite substantial funding, $13 million a year to be precise. In addition, TV5 Québec Canada has access to the Canada Media Fund, allowing it to produce Canadian content, which is obviously important for us.

    Seeing Canadians on TV, in our living rooms and in other places, outside our borders, is an asset, I think. We will continue to work with them because the benefits are immeasurable if we think about how we can make a difference in the world with our Canadian identity and Canadian stories.

    Minister, the new media are undeniably changing the arts and culture ecosystem.

    In your view, what should our artists do to reach out to as many people as possible to have a larger audience? What would be in it for them?

    Let me stress again that I love talking about artists. We know that artists, arts, culture and our country's heritage affect all of us because they are part of our identity. In addition, our economy benefits from those industries. Those three industries inject almost $50 billion into the economy. That's wonderful. In addition, they employ 640,000 people. We will therefore continue to support them.

    However, for that to have an impact outside our borders, we need help. The Canada Council has a program to help them in that sense. As you know, we give about $181 million every year to the Canada Council.

    Our government is very proud of that. Actually, Canada is the only country of the G7 that did not reduce the direct assistance to artists during the recession. That is a credit to our Prime Minister, who is the only government leader to be able to say that.

    In addition, when I travel, I see Canadian books, Canadian films and our artists who have a presence abroad. We are all proud of them.

    You have announced a $110 million investment in renovating the National Arts Centre for Canada's 150th anniversary. What impact will this redevelopment have on our artists?

    It is a major investment, but it is necessary. Clearly, this centre welcomes our artists throughout the year. These artists deserve to have a centre that gives them an opportunity to showcase their work and demonstrate their talents. This amount of $110 million will really help the centre welcome the artists, welcome visitors and welcome those who want to participate in arts and culture. This is crucial for the 150th anniversary celebrations because we are expecting to receive visitors from everywhere here in Ottawa. Such an investment in the National Arts Centre was one of the highlights in the amounts earmarked by the Department of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages.

    Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

    We will continue with Ms. St-Denis.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Minister, you talked about the National Arts Centre receiving artists, but does the promotion of the French language affect the majority of Canadians? It is easy to say that you are investing $1.2 billion over five years, which is still only $250 million per year. There are also activities, such as the ones you have described. However, does that actually make a difference? We all agree that the French culture is important and that bilingualism is the greatest thing on earth, but all of this is theory.

    In practical terms, based on your experience, does the promotion of language have an impact on all Canadians?

    I think we can always do more, but I see that Canada is flourishing in both official languages. When I became the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, I wanted to know the situation of the official languages in the provinces and territories.

    So I had a map drawn up, which I will share with you. I actually wanted to have a comparison. We know that the Commissioner of Official Languages, Mr. Fraser, said that 250,000 more people are bilingual than there were 10 years ago. However, we should check the statistics.

    I personally come from Manitoba. The people in my province are proud of the francophonie. I am the result of French immersion. I wanted to see how the situation compared to other places. I was astonished to see how many people were bilingual in Manitoba. Compared to other provinces and territories, we rank fifth. Yukon is third in terms of the percentage of bilingual people.

    Who would have thought that we are affecting all the provinces and territories in such a significant way? Once again, I wanted to share these very interesting facts with you.

    Okay, let's talk about Yukon.

    Why today do you think the francophone communities in that territory still have to use the legal system to have their rights recognized? In your view, is that normal? The Official Languages Act has been around for some time. Why do they still have to go to court?

    That case has to do with the minority community in Yukon. I am sorry, Ms. St-Denis, but that question is for the territorial authority.

    Yes, okay.

    Let's go back to the issue of funding.

    Do you support the idea of recurrent funding for the social and community infrastructure of francophone communities? Do you think the funding should be recurrent?

    I have asked you this question in the House before. You said that an amount of $1.2 billion over five years was earmarked for the activities. We know that and we cannot say that nothing has been done since some things have been done. Is recurrent funding part of the Department of Canadian Heritage's philosophy?

    My next question has to do with the cuts. We have not talked about that, but do you think the recurrent funding is important?

    First, I think that the organizations that receive recurring funding are very happy with the work that we do. I am proud to say that about 85% of the funds provided to minority official language communities by the Department of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages are recurring funds.

    Does that include funds for literacy, for example?

    If you look at the roadmap, you will see the funds available in the 14 departments. Some funds have been allocated. We have changed the name. It is no longer HRSDC. The old roadmap has the previous name.

    In the roadmap, $7.5 million come from the literacy and essential skills program of the Department of Employment and Social Development Canada. Minister Poilievre is very well aware of the need to provide opportunities to those who need them. The funds in that roadmap provide assistance in that regard.

    Let's talk about Radio-Canada.

    You said that there were no direct funds for artists following the cuts. Surely that is a very small part of available funds.

    Let's talk about this from a more general point of view. Do you think that minority francophone communities can develop culturally without a national radio or television broadcaster?

    In my opinion, Radio-Canada reaches minority official language communities and particularly francophone communities outside Quebec.

    What is the impact of these cuts going to be?

    As you know, we give Radio-Canada $1.1 billion a year. That is a large amount. Radio-Canada can thus implement its mandate. If it does not do so, the CRTC makes sure it deals with that problem.

    Thank you, Ms. Glover.

    I also thank Ms. St-Denis.

    I now give the floor to Mr. Leung.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

     You are the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, which has a slightly broader mandate than just the two official languages.

    What is your department doing to support, maintain, and preserve Canada's aboriginal languages. As we know, around the world, many of these native aboriginal languages are lost due to there being no critical mass of population to support them.

    What is Canada doing to preserve and maintain them?

     Thank you very much for the question.

    I'm proud to say that we have what's called the aboriginal peoples' program out of Canadian Heritage. That program is essential for those who want to ensure that their languages do not disappear. We have many aboriginal languages across the country. The funds that are available through the aboriginal peoples' program go to communities or organizations that strive to ensure that they're teaching teachers and that those teachers will then go on to continue. From there the population that knows these languages, and that develops and keeps these languages, will continue to grow.

    This program has been working very well. The program is 114 projects over a year. We put about $16 million towards the aboriginal peoples' program to make sure that they are able to retain their values, their culture, and of course their traditions. Language is important and we're proud to be a part of that.

    It would be tough to grow a language by spreading it into the general population of Canada. We already have to deal with two official languages. The acquisition of a third language would be hard and not necessarily contribute to our overall national strategy.

    I would say that knowing more languages helps us. I think knowing more languages is something that we should all strive to do. I think it contributes very much to the fabric of who we are as Canadians. That's why it's important that we retain this program and that we continue to assist where we can.

    You're right, we don't see the aboriginal languages being practised in some of our more southern locations. I have to say that on many reserves in Manitoba, the Cree language, Ojibwa, and even Michif through my own Métis communities, are still being used, and we encourage them to continue to preserve those very significant languages.

    I can certainly appreciate and attest to the fact that multiple language skills are very important. With my colleagues to the right of me, the three of us probably could handle about 14 or 15 languages.

    In my role as Parliamentary Secretary for Multiculturalism, I think the 20% of people who are born outside Canada are our best cultural link, linguistic link, and family link to their country of origin. They certainly could help us promote and build Canada.

    Absolutely and we're so proud of the abilities of our members on both sides. We have some members on the opposition benches who have also retained languages that are very important to the enrichment of Canada. That is what having multiple languages does and that's what having multiple cultures does: they enrich Canada. We are the greatest country in the world, and it really has a lot to do with what we're talking about.

    In your role as the PS for multiculturalism I know you work very hard with many of these cultural groups. I want to thank you because I know you're everywhere. You seem to never go home, PS Leung, but we do appreciate all of your efforts and I know it's recognized.

    Thank you for your recognition.

    Thank you, Mr. Leung.

    Now we'll go to Mr. Daniel.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you, Minister, for being here. It's always good to see you when you come up here.

    As part of the things I'm involved in, I'm the chair of the aerospace caucus. I've had the great opportunity of going and visiting our aerospace industry in the Montreal area: Bombardier, Pratt & Whitney.... There are a number of companies there, all of which are growing in leaps and bounds. In particular they need skilled young people as part of their organizations, all of which strive to be bilingual in every aspect.

    It's critical that our young people get a quality education. What is the government doing to support students getting training in high-demand fields—and not just high-demand but highly skilled and highly paid—in both official languages across Canada?

     Thank you for mentioning the aerospace industry.

    As you know, I come from Manitoba where we have a very strong aerospace industry as well. We just met with them in fact yesterday. They were on the Hill. It is one of the industries that frankly is really putting Canada on the map. They do need people who are equipped to work in both languages. It benefits their industry.

    We all know, as members of this committee, how knowing both national languages helps us to reach out. Trade is improved. Our ability to connect with people is improved. Our connections lead to long-term plans and contracts that benefit our economy.

    In our efforts to educate young people in these languages, we do provide funding. We have bilateral protocol agreements with the provinces and the territories. It's about $259 million every year that is provided. We also have partnerships with le Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada, which also assists in making sure that we provide the best possible quality education for these students.

    We have to work in concert, obviously, with some of the other universities and colleges as well. I have to mention that MITT, in Manitoba, recently partnered with la Division scolaire franco-manitobaine to bring students to do their first year in the trades together. It's a technical college, but they're bringing in grade 12 students. It's an innovative process.

    These are the types of things that we see happening. Partnerships are what we're all about.

    Thinking out of the box here a little bit, as you know, we as a government have made many trade deals, in particular, the most recent one with Europe. Having an advantage of both languages, how do you see that enhancing our trade with Europe, for example?

    I can't even explain exactly how much benefit comes out of knowing the two languages. Most of us are either studying it, or we know it, or we wish we knew it. There again, in Europe, it's not just French and English. Our national languages are official languages. They have a variety of languages.

    Every time we can provide someone who can dialogue with them to attain the deals we need to increase our economic wealth, it is a bonus for Canada. It is an advantage that should not be dismissed lightly. I believe that Canada is going to do very well under CETA. It has a lot to do with the fact that we are a multicultural country.

    So in your opinion it's a great benefit to our young people to get educated in both languages, to have all these skills such as software, aviation, structural engineering, and all those things, right?

    Absolutely.

    I believe education is the gateway for them to get into the workforce to be able to provide for their own families, and to have a successful and productive life. I hope that anyone who's considering both of the languages during their education takes that to heart because it really does open doors for them when they have both of those languages under their belts.

    Mr. Nicholls.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

     Minister Glover, I hope you know that there is a difference between the legal status of official languages and the legal status of national languages. In Canada, we have two official languages, but we have dozens and dozens of national languages. The difference is that the so-called “national” languages are not protected by legislation.

    That's perhaps the reason why Mr. Leung mentioned that first nations languages are sadly facing assimilation. When I hear in your discourse that you use the term interchangeably, it's very important to note that they have a very different legal status. I'm very optimistic that you know that difference.

    Your Conservative government is increasingly turning its attention to social funding. Several stakeholders have shared their concerns with us regarding social funding. You are asking community groups to find equivalent funds before they can receive funds from the federal government.

    Ms. Glover, what is the Department of Canadian Heritage doing to ensure that social funding will really be there for minority official language communities?

    Thank you for the question.

    I would like to address the issue of official languages and national languages.

    In my opinion, when we talk about official languages, this is something that involves our legislation. We have the Official Languages Act. However, when I talk about national languages, it is because I am proud to see that we speak both official languages in each province and each territory. We cannot say that about all of the aboriginal languages. We cannot say that about the other languages, but we can certainly say that in Canada, within our nation, French and English are the two languages that are spoken everywhere. This means that they are national languages. They are official languages, of course, since we have an Official Languages Act. I believe they are complementary.

    As for the other topic you raised, this can really be found in the roadmap and in Minister Poilievre's department. That is where the funding you referred to can be found. Once again, the roadmap provides funds to that department. The question you just asked really concerns that minister or that department.

    Did your department do an impact study to see whether social funding can be applied specifically to minority official language communities?

    Since I have only been in charge of the department for a year and a half, I am going to yield the floor to Mr. Hubert Lussier. He will answer that question.

    Thank you.

    What is your response, Mr. Lussier?

    We have carried out a few studies on social funding, but we have not yet applied this to the Department of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages. That does not mean that we will not do so. I know that the Department of Employment and Social Development has teams that have been looking at that for a long time. We spoke to them. Some of their experts used to work for the Department of Canadian Heritage. So we have had some discussions about this.

    However, it would be going too far to say that we have done an impact study. For the moment, our work is somewhat preliminary.

    However, we do require from each of the organizations that receive funds, with a few exceptions, that they also raise their own funds.

    Does the Department of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages intend to study social funding to see whether this type of funding meets the specific characteristics of minority official language communities?

    Does the minister intend to do that?

    As Mr. Lussier just said, there is a partnership. We are having discussions with the Department of Employment and Social Development. We are going to pursue our dialogue and explore the next steps together.

     I've spoken quite a bit with Youth Employment Services in Montreal. This is an agency that provides services to anglophone Montrealers usually in search of work and employment. They told me about their worry that in searching for dollars in private sector money a lot of their attention was taken away from actually providing services to their clients.

    Does Canadian Heritage or the official languages portfolio have any intention of giving operational funding for this activity?

    I want to be clear about your question. Are you asking me about the youth employment strategy?

    No, I am not. It's an organization in Montreal called Youth Employment Services, YES Montreal. They told us at this committee that they spend a lot of time, maybe 30% to 40% of their time, in private fundraising activities to finance the services they give. In doing so, they are not able to offer as many services because a lot of their resources are put toward looking for this private money.

    Do you have a solution to this problem in the fact that they are not getting enough public money? They are doing a great job getting private money, but it takes away from the services they are giving.

    Thank you, Mr. Nicholls.

    Minister Glover.

    That again would be under ESDC, Employment and Skills Development Canada. Our ministry through Canadian Heritage actually funds a number of youth programs—Youth Take Charge, the exchange programs—which provide opportunities to our youth.

    We're not the only ministry, of course, that does that. There are other ministries that provide opportunities for youth. We reach probably about 280,000 youth every year through things like Canada Summer Jobs, etc., and there are significant funds that are placed for youth.

    It is a question for ESDC, unfortunately, once again.

     Okay, thank you.

    Mr. Chisu.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Madam Minister, I would like to thank you for your testimony and congratulate you on your work. I would also like to talk about the other official language, which is English, and ask you a question about that.

    It is a question concerning something you mentioned in your speech regarding the protocol for education agreements that you proposed with the provinces and territories to pay special attention to measuring the acquisition of language skills and to promote the sharing of best practices in this area. I know that education is not our purview, but I'm looking not necessarily at the schools, where bilingualism is quite well established—we have French immersion schools, we have French schools—but at the university level.

    At the university level in part of, let's say, my other life where I come from, Transylvania—I am not a vampire, but anyway.... When I was at the university in the engineering faculty we were obliged to learn and to have an examination in a foreign language. I took German; that's another issue.

    It is possible to encourage the universities to promote the other official language of the country, because when you are going into various specializations—biology, engineering, and so on—the language is a little different from everyday language. This would be an asset for our students and also would provide a better understanding and ability to speak well in both languages.

    I'm just asking whether you have had any discussion on this matter.

    This is one of those topics that I take really to heart. When I went to school, because we were learning a second official language, we spoke French all the time. It was immersion; you were immersed. I'm seeing more and more that the kids who are going into these programs are having some difficulties when they finish. They're not able to necessarily communicate at the same level as in previous programs.

    That's why I asked the provinces to look at ways in which we can provide opportunities and maybe engage the students, so that they know what to expect when they get out of high school. Then, when they go to university or college, they have a better chance of success. This is why I'm trying to encourage the provinces.

    But you are right; it is a provincial responsibility. Having said that, we provide funds to many institutions. I have a list here. From Université Sainte-Anne in Nova Scotia, Université de Moncton, La Cité collégiale.... I have a list here of bilateral post-secondary institutions that are supported under our federal-provincial-territorial bilateral agreements that is probably about 30 names long and includes every province and almost every territory. So we are actively involved in supporting, but the decision-making actually happens at the provincial and territorial level.

    That's why I take on the role of encouraging and working together with them, not to step outside of the jurisdictional boundaries that have been well established, but to demonstrate the experience that we have. We have a lot of experience and many things to share, and I believe we ought to share best practices. It's also why I put this in a letter of recommendation to the provinces and territories.

    Thank you very much.

    Our government is preparing for Canada's 150th birthday. Commemoration of birthdays gives Canadians the opportunity to reflect on our history and our identity, including obviously bilingualism, which is very important for us.

    Can you give us an update on the planning of the 150th anniversary and how we will promote the two official languages of our country and how Canadians can benefit from bilingualism?

    Thank you very much for mentioning it. This is something I've spent a great amount of time on as minister.

    We did consultations across the country. Of course, we made sure that when we did these consultations we involved communities, particularly the communities in minority situations, so that we could get the best possible suggestions to put forward a plan to assist. We also focused quite a bit on youth involvement in those consultations. We provided every member of Parliament with a tool kit to go out and solicit suggestions from their communities and submit them to us. We had a website that was active and collected 12,000 suggestions across the country. I myself, and our parliamentary secretary for heritage, and parliamentary secretary Monsieur Gourde did consultations.

    Okay, thank you very much, Minister Glover.

    We'll finish with Monsieur Gravelle.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you, Minister Glover, for being here.

    You keep referring to the unprecedented investments your government has made in the roadmap. However, we realized that several programs existed already and were simply included in the roadmap. I am thinking, for example, of the $120 million for Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

    Can you tell us exactly how much money in the roadmap comes from new investments and how much is from programs that existed already and were simply included in the roadmap? We would like to have some clear and precise information on that.

    I am going to be clear and precise.

    All of the funds are new funds. This is a new roadmap. Several organizations have expressed their support. We are going to continue in the same direction and maintain the same three pillars, i.e. education, immigration and the communities.

    I have a list of the programs that existed before and had attained their objectives. At that time we evaluated the programs to decide, in consultation with minority official language community organizations, which had succeeded well and which had succeeded less well. We made changes. On the basis of our observations, we produced the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018.

    So these are new funds and we have changed some things in some programs. That is quite clear and precise.

    Your government is disregarding its obligations under part VII of the Official Languages Act. In short, the ministers are not consulting the communities when the time comes to implement programs or to establish criteria for the implementation of programs. Because of this lack of consultation, minority official language communities are not taken into account, and the programs that are available are not adapted to the communities. There are several examples of stakeholders who have not had access to federal funding because the program criteria were not adapted to the communities.

    What are you doing, concretely, to raise the awareness of other federal institutions that have obligations under part VII of the Official Languages Act, regarding the importance of consulting the communities so as to ensure that the programs are adapted to their specific characteristics? Can you give us some concrete examples of that? Are you ready to commit here, in committee, to sending a letter to each one of your colleagues in every department to remind them are their obligations regarding consultations?

    I am going to let one of my colleagues complete the answer.

    To begin, I have in my hands pages and pages of organizations that work in minority official language communities, whom we consult and who help us establish programs that will continue to meet their needs. The ministers of the 14 departments work together and talk about the necessary steps to reach those organizations so as to help both official languages flourish in these communities.

    I'm going to yield the floor to M. Hubert Lussier so that he can provide more details on the consultations you asked about.

    Mr. Lussier, you have the floor.

    Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Public servants hold frequent and regular consultations. We held one yesterday when we had a meeting with our colleagues from other departments. We have a very well-established network. There is mutual encouragement and tools are constantly put at their disposal precisely to help them with consultations.

    At the risk of skirting with the political area, I would go so far as to say that certain ministers hold consultations themselves or are preparing to do so. It is very well known that Mr. Alexander is about to do that, tomorrow or in the following days, regarding immigration issues. They are at the heart of the roadmap.

    Many examples come to mind in that regard. Mr. Moore held consultations on what today's roadmap would become. He involved several of his colleagues, including Mr. Clement and other ministers, in those same consultations.

     Hon. Shelly Glover: Mr. Valcourt and Ms. Ambrose were also involved.

    There is one minute left.

    Mr. Chair, I'm going to use the rest of Mr. Gravelle's time.

    Ms. Glover, many groups representing both francophones and anglophones have appeared before us.

    They said that funding just wasn't enough. They said this repeatedly in the study that we were doing. If you look at the witness testimony over the past months, many witnesses came and said funding's not enough to meet their needs.

    Does the government intend to listen to them—if it's truly consulting with these groups—and increase their funding, which they need to deliver their services to the clientele, people living in minority language situations?

    I'm going to read a quote that comes from the QCGN. We all know that the Quebec Community Groups Network is one of the largest anglophone minority language communities in Quebec. We also provide funding to ELAN. Here's what QCGN said about, for example, our road map and I'll quote:

    So we're going to continue to consult with them. We're going to continue to improve where we can and have the very best possible situations so that all Canadians have the opportunity to learn both official languages, both national languages.

    Thank you very much, Minister Glover.

    Mr. Lussier and Mr. Gauthier, I thank you for your testimony.

    May I add something, Mr. Chair?

    Very briefly, yes.

     I said Manitoba was number five. They're actually number eight for bilingual; they're number five in francophones.

    Thank you for clarifying that, Minister Glover, we appreciate that.

    The meeting is adjourned.