:
Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm sorry Michael Chettleburgh isn't here today, because he agrees with me on the position I am going to take about marijuana.
As Sergeant Tommy O'Brien, a wise old New York city street cop working organized crime, told me many years ago as we were walking along the streets of little Italy in New York to confront a mobster, “As long as people enjoy the services, and that is all it is, so long as people enjoy prostitution, untaxed cigarettes, after hours joints, gambling, as long as people enjoy that, there will always be Mafia people, criminals who will supply them. It's like anything else--if the general public wants it, they'll get it.” He chuckled when he said that--and that is very true today.
As an investigative journalist who has specialized in organized crime reporting for almost a lifetime, I have a different perspective from police and prosecutors who generally want more laws and easier arrests and convictions, or most politicians who usually desire a simplistic, nice-sounding, quick fix for political advantage to things that cannot be so easily fixed.
I've been looking at and documenting organized crime in Canada since 1974 for television documentaries, books, scores, and magazine articles, including the CBC Connections series from 1974 to 1979; a series called Mob Stories on the History Channel, where I was interviewed, along with Antonio; in the 1980s and 1990s, Mob rule: Inside the Canadian Mafia;Dragons of Crime: Asian Mobs in Canada; and three others, including one on organized crime during the 1920s prohibition in Canada.
I have been involved in many TV documentaries on people smuggling--one for A&E and one for the National Film Board and the CBC; a 10-part series on CityTV on Toronto organized crime groups; a CBC Witness documentary on cigarettes, guns, booze, and smuggling; a CBC Montreal documentary on the bike war in the 1990s; and many others. I am also the co-author of the definition articles of “organized crime” for all editions of the Canadian Encyclopedia.
The point here is that a lot of my life's work has been researching, looking at, and documenting organized crime in Canada and the various changing states of organized crime. Some of my sources I've met over the last 40 years--ex-hitmen, gangsters, con men, bikers, and mafioso--are still friends, as are some cops and some other mob sources. I see or call them and they call me frequently to chat, compare notes, and analyze the most recent organized crime developments. So I think I know of what I speak.
Since 1974, when I began work on Connections, and since 1985, when I published Mob rule: Inside the Canadian Mafia--the first book outside of Quebec on organized crime in Canada--we've come a long way in Canadian enforcement techniques and laws. Examples include the excellent anti-gang laws that were strengthened eight years ago, money-laundering legislation, and tougher, more rigorous immigration enforcement.
:
Oh, I'm sorry. I'd be happy to slow down.
Organized crime mobs have come a long way too. They have proliferated and grown immensely. This is sad but true, in spite of the jailing of the leadership of the Hells Angels and more recently Vancouver gangsters, after they got too cocky, violent, and out of hand by killing many, including some innocent people.
More than ever before, many more organized crime gangs are operating across Canada, though many are less structured and strictly hierarchical. That's very true here in Toronto, incidentally.
There is only one long-term solution, apart from continuing, intense, ongoing enforcement, like the anti-gang laws and tinkering with laws and sentencing, as much of the Conservative tough-on-crime legislative agenda proposes. Unfortunately, that does little to inhibit the growth of organized crime. It is time that we as a society, once and for all, deal seriously with the reality of the huge public demand for some of the major products and services of organized crime, most significantly marijuana, the number one money-maker for organized crime gangs across the country.
Ending the prohibition and making it legal and taxing it and taking the business away from the mobs, as we did in ending prohibition over 80 years ago, is what is required. I wrote a book on that about 20 years ago, about Rocco Perri and how mob bosses in Canada and the United States were created by the prohibition against alcohol, and that led to mob wars in both countries.
Pot prohibition is a colossal failure as a policy. Some of the big money, billions, that pot brings in can be used for education on recreational drug misuse. I say this as one who knows organized crime well and has seen it grow and grow as enforcement tries to keep up but cannot because of the demand.
We need to legalize some of the more profitable products and services upon which organized crime grows and thrives, starting with pot, and do that in the United States and Canada. The coming California referendum on pot, if passed, will get the ball rolling, as medical use of pot has already done in both countries. I know many “medical users” in Canada and the United States already.
More than ever, I now see the need to decriminalize many products and services of organized crime, from prostitution to gambling, and most drugs. Where mobs used to run booze and gambling, and thrive on it, now the government runs or controls most gambling and booze. Pot should and will follow; we cannot stop it.
This is an idea whose time has come. From the Fraser Institute study of almost a decade ago to billionaire entrepreneur George Soros, to ex-Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, to The Economist magazine--the special issue just a few months ago urging the very same thing--to Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, LEAP...I don't know whether you've had a speaker from LEAP here. Have you? You should. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, that is, former soldiers in the war on drugs in the United States and Canada, are now against the prohibition of drugs, from U.S. governors to U.S. and Canadian organized crime law enforcement officials, like ex-Mountie, coroner, and Vancouver mayor, Senator Larry Campbell. He would be an excellent witness, I would think. Larry Campbell--a very good guy.
Of course, to avoid the potential for gang wars in Canada for turf and U.S. routes, as in Mexico now and as in the 1920s prohibition period, we need to legalize and decriminalize in both countries at the same time. That's an extremely important point. We couldn't just legalize pot in this country. I think when it happens in California, that's when we'll have to move very fast. That's why you guys should be looking into it now before it happens in California. California is the largest state in the United States, and when it happens there, it's going to happen.
As for the idea floated by some, including members of Parliament, that one answer to the organized crime problem in this country is criminalizing a group by its name, for example the Hells Angels, it's wrong-headed on many counts. First, it wouldn't work. The Hells Angels would go underground, as it has already partially done in Quebec in the drug biz, where it's still fairly effectively importing and selling drugs. There's no lack of drugs on the streets of Montreal, I can tell you.
Second, it's a slippery slope. Why just the Hells Angels? Why not other organized crime gangs? Why just focus on organized crime with a name? Alas, many organized crime gangs, like many street gangs or Vietnamese gangs, are very fluid and adaptive and don't really have names, except for those given to them by journalists and cops.
Third, it would make civil rights martyrs out of the Hells Angels. It would be a public relations coup bonanza for such a sinister group. In the end, it is too simplistic to make it a crime to be a member of a named group. It is good only for cops who don't want to spend the time making real cases or using the anti-gang laws, and it is not good for our civil liberties in Canada. I might add that over many years of application it hasn't worked very well to eliminate the many mafias in Italy or the triads in Hong Kong, though one might argue that in Italy, at least, it has kept intense pressure on mafias. Antonio can answer on that one.
The time has come to do something nationally and internationally that really hurts organized crime groups operating in Canada. Ending the prohibition on pot is the first big step forward to that end. Rigorously enforcing the tough anti-gang laws will also help enormously. More federal government funding and vocal, visible support for the use of the anti-gang laws consistently and nationally is required. These laws have been used successfully against the Rock Machine, the Hells Angels, highly organized black street gangs in Toronto, ethnic organized crime gangs elsewhere, and the powerful Rizzuto Mafia family.
In my opinion, there is no need for new laws, just a need for strenuously enforcing existing ones and eliminating some very old out-of-date laws, such as the prohibition against certain widely used, hugely popular recreational drugs such as marijuana and possibly ecstasy. We need quality controls on this highly popular drug, as most users rarely know exactly what they're getting in a drug often manufactured in garages and basements.
Getting rid of drug prohibition, starting with pot, is the only real thing left to do that will almost certainly work to reduce the power, income, and membership of organized crime gangs. We must get at what fuels the growth and profits of the mobs. It's time to get at them where it hurts, and legalizing pot in North America will begin to do that. Of course, we can never eliminate organized crime in a society; we can only contain it and keep it on the ropes.
Today, as I was getting ready to come here and as we're having this meeting right now, there's a judge from New Jersey who is a commentator on the Fox television station, which is not a station I usually watch. As we're sitting here, he's giving a speech on his position to legalize marijuana on Fox television. This is what he said in Facebook this morning. He said:
Isn't it about time for the government to drop its Victorian facade and let folks do to their bodies in private whatever they wish....
The time has now come for the government to get out of our homes and leave us alone. Governments in America have been spending about $50 billion annually on drug enforcement and recreational drugs use increases every year. When will we learn that prohibition is a disaster?
That's how he ends his entry on Facebook this morning.
I think I made my 10 minutes.
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Mr. Chairman, honourable members of this committee, good afternoon.
The last time I addressed this committee was in 2001. I remember we asked ourselves this question: why is organized crime afraid of American laws and borders and not afraid of ours? Since 2001 nothing has changed. The situation is actually becoming worse.
According to the latest report of the Criminal Intelligence Service, most criminal markets appear highly resistant to long-term disruption, and in some cases they remain criminally active during incarceration. The same report listed hundreds of criminal organizations.
I used to call our country a Welcome Wagon for organized crime. The main problem lies with the definition of organized crime. We have criminal organizations that insulate themselves from risk, such as the Mafia and the 'Ndrangheta, which tend to be less visible and more difficult to link to criminal behaviour. They are more business oriented and have established links with politicians, business people, and professionals.
If you have the time to read the intelligence report prepared by the RCMP and the Montreal police about the Mafia in Quebec, you will find the names of important corporations, politicians, lawyers, and builders. From those reports, you will learn what the power of a criminal organization like the Mafia really is. Moreover, you will learn that they are more dangerous when they cannot be shocked.
The connections with decision-makers, business persons, politicians, and professionals are the backbone of criminal power. Nevertheless, this is an area that is off limits. How many investigations target the so-called grey area where politicians, criminals, professionals, and business people get together for various reasons? There are not many. This is the real target.
According to the Criminal Intelligence Service, the dividing line between illegality and legality is fine and can be redrawn with changes in regulations or legislation. As a result, some criminal groups undertake a series of enterprises that are on the margin of legitimacy or entirely legitimate. Some operate businesses that are primarily intended to facilitate criminal activities, while others offer legitimate trade but also facilitate illicit enterprises through, for example, laundering funds, income tax fraud, enabling fraud, or the illicit manipulation of stock markets. A criminal group may own or operate these businesses openly, conceal their dealings through nominees, or collude with, coerce, or deceive the owners or employees. These businesses can also enable criminal groups to distance themselves from criminal activity and provide an appearance of legitimacy. If this is the real issue, why do we stand idly by? Instead, and for obvious reasons, we continue to link organized crime only with violence and not with white collar crime.
Street gang activities often more directly have an impact on the general public than other organized crime groups, particularly as some gangs pose a threat to public safety through their high propensity for violence. We have a serious problem in Quebec, where many sectors of the economy are infiltrated by white collar criminals. We face increased violence on Montreal streets. Ninety percent of drug retailing is in the hands of street gangs and they are fighting for more turf to exert an influence over drug territory. They are not kids with guns. In Alberta police witnessed street gang members exchanging text messages while the alleged criminals were sitting at the same table. No words were exchanged during the meeting. They were using BlackBerry devices because they cannot be intercepted by police. This is only an example of the level of sophistication of our street gangs.
I hope this meeting will not be useless like the others. For many years, we as Canadians have remained like ostriches with our heads firmly planted in the sand. We have anti-gang legislation that we barely use outside of Quebec.
I remember when organized crime was identified as a priority, a government priority, both federally and provincially. They made only newspaper headlines and no action was taken. Whatever the reason, we are now faced with confronting criminal organizations that are immeasurably stronger and more sophisticated than they used to be. Some have retained superbly resourced dream teams of lawyers and chartered accountants, and a few are capable of successfully infiltrating law enforcement.
I'd like to quote Crown Attorney Stephen Sherriff. In a speech dated 2001, he said, “There is no point crying over spilt milk but we must realize that what started as spilt milk has turned into an oil spill.” Unfortunately, almost 10 years later, this is the current reality. It is a waste of time to debate how we got so far behind. The important thing is to not squander any more time. If we do not take action, we will have more bystanders at risk, more business people in the hands of criminals, and more narcotics on the streets.
I'd like to know, as a Canadian, if there is political will to fight organized crime. In the last 20 years, I've never had the sense that there is.
Thank you.
My name is Margaret Beare. I'm a professor at York University, where I served for 10 years as the director of the Nathanson Centre for the Study of Organized Crime and Corruption. The name of that centre has now been changed to the Nathanson Centre on Transnational Human Rights, Crime and Security, but policing and organized crime is still a topic for that centre. Prior to that time, I worked for 13 years in what was then the Department of the Solicitor General of Canada and is now the Ministry of Public Security. I was the director of police policy and research.
Our panel has a bit of an advantage, in the sense that your committee has been meeting for quite a while and I've had an opportunity to go through some of the previous testimony that was given. A lot of it was given with passion and commitment, and I welcome this opportunity to add my own opinion, experience, and to a large extent my hope for change into the mix that somehow you have to make some kind of sense out of.
Running through the various presentations that have already been given, there was a call for a focus on root causes to combat organized crime. Obviously no one answer is going to be the answer that meets all kinds of organized crime, but I would like to focus just for a moment on the kinds that in fact do speak to root causes.
As you may know, yesterday there was a gang summit held here in Toronto, and the strong message was a need to look at membership, the need to look at and understand who are the members of these street groups or gangs, and in fact not to automatically assume that they are criminal gangs that should be slotted into the magic three: membership, criminal organization, and categorization.
There is agreement that to work effectively to reduce street violence from street gangs, the focus needs to be on jobs, literacy, social inclusion, and social services. This, however, appears to be political poison, accepted as mere rhetoric, backed up by an array of get tough legislation that you've all been hearing about. The list of get tough measures include the mandatory minimums, the criminal organization enhancement to police powers and sanctions, and the debate on the practicality of naming groups as being criminal organization entities.
Both James and Antonio addressed that issue to some extent, James emphasizing the networking, the fluid nature of a lot of organized crime groups, and Antonio emphasizing the grey area, the blurriness between political corruption, corruption of officials, influence peddling, and the “criminal element”.
What do you put under the umbrella of whatever name you want to assign to a group? The Hells Angels are a beautiful group because they have everything going for them: the jacket, the club, the name, the whatever. The organized crime groups that you would perhaps be better served to look at are the fluid groups that include the legitimate and illegitimate activities.
I just finished a study on women involved in organized crime. The international community appears to be concerned that women are moving into leadership roles. Other than anecdotal examples, I think we are safe from women for a while, although they do play a key role in some of the trafficking of persons through certain routes. Mainly these women are the same poor, jobless, abused, often illiterate, often single moms that we see in our domestic prisons, victims of abuse much more than abusers. We now see these women targeted with the mandatory minimums associated with drug trafficking, i.e., the drug mules. But when one analyzes the court cases, what you find is naive, duped, intimidated women mixed with—yes, of course—some women who knowingly choose to take upon themselves the most risky and the least profitable part of the trafficking network that leaves them most exposed, while somebody else who runs the operation possibly, but not necessarily, becomes rich.
I've also just finished a study on the enforcement of gambling. You probably would ask yourself how gambling relates to the issue we are looking at. In my mind, it speaks to justice policies that appear to be derived, at least to some extent, by flavour-of-the-month polling mechanisms.
While everyone acknowledges that illegal gambling is still a major source of profits for organized criminals--and even the recent killings in Montreal reveal some of the players who have been and are still involved in this enterprise--there is little political will to continue to fund street gambling enforcement. Far sexier is the international hype over money laundering, terrorist financing, and of course gangs and guns. Focusing on street-level traditional police work, rather than funnelling our precious resources perhaps too heavily into elite squads, might be a better response.
What is my point that links these three areas? What is needed is the political will on the part of committees such as yours--which is why I'm so pleased to be here speaking to you--to stand up to political masters. When Corrections Canada briefed the Prime Minister about the severe downside of mandatory minimum sentences in terms of the impact on prison populations, his response was that the hardest thing he had to deal with was getting the bureaucrats on board. Research, evidence, and the experience of the knowledgeable correctional research staff and the prison staff were irrelevant to him.
Standing up and saying everything we know, nationally and internationally, tells us that mandatory sentences do more harm than good; massive gang roundups that cannot be processed by either our legal aid systems or our courts must be a last resort to alternative measures in some of the most depressed areas of our cities; and the Gladue judgment tried to tell us, regarding the far excessive overrepresentation of aboriginals in our prisons, that equal justice is not equal when everyone does not start at the same point. Therefore justice must be flexible and wise, free from political ideology, and free to make brave, made-in-Canada social justice-focused responses.
I would like to add my voice to the choir that emphasizes that the current drug laws are not working, pure and simple. No matter what your view on marijuana is, what we are doing is not working. Save your resources for other drugs if you must, but decriminalization is the only reasoned response to marijuana.
I was a member of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police drug abuse committee for several years, and there was one magic year when the CACP drug committee voted to recommend decriminalization to the government. Alas, when the chiefs went back from the conference to their home departments, they apparently got whacked, because the formal decision changed. However, it was an indication that the police do see the folly of what the laws cause, and this most powerful policing organization almost had the courage to tell the government.
I thank you very much.
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Yes, supplying drugs. Steroids are drugs. They're illegal. A lot of money is made on steroids and ecstasy, and, as I said earlier, God knows what's in them.
Anyway, in terms of youth gangs, I think a lot of people get in for a lot of reasons, but one of them is the profit motive. A lot of them graduate to larger organized crime gangs. As you get a little more sophisticated.... You see, for a lot of the youth gangs and younger gangs, the ones selling drugs on the street are one thing, but a lot of the early Mafia groups, let's say, and Asian crime groups, if you look at Asian crimes, started with extortion when they were younger, in their twenties.
Extortion doesn't get you very much money, but it gets you money, and you generally extort people from that community. It's going on right now with the Tamil Tigers. Other groups are extorting recent immigrants, I suspect, in the Somali community and others. It's a long pattern, and it goes back to the early Italian immigration in the 1920s. Most of the original Mafia groups were involved in extortion. But that doesn't make you money, so you move to more sophisticated things, like international crime and drug trafficking on a large scale, from heroin to cocaine and marijuana. I think the younger gang members get into where there's more money, so they get into the organized crime gangs.
Those are two ways they get in.
As for women, Margaret didn't mention this, but back in the 1920s and 1930s, there were women who ran the Mafia in Ontario, Bessie Perri and Annie Newman, so they're not exactly newcomers. Rocco Perri, who was the gang boss in charge of most of the bootleg booze coming from Canada into the United States, relied for all his decisions on them. Whether it was killing a customs officer or corrupting a customs officer, he relied on Bessie and on his women. He couldn't do it without his women.
Antonio wrote a book about this too. It's quite amazing, in fact, that women were in that role, and our history on this has never been told. We get all of our history from American television, so naturally the Canadian history isn't there, but there have been women in crime. As Bessie said to Rocco back in the teens, when prohibition was coming, “We'd better get into this, because there's a lot of money to be made.” They made a fortune: the equivalent of hundreds of millions of dollars today. She was draped in diamonds and they had a big mansion. Of course, she was murdered, so there is a moral to the story, and her murder is still unsolved 60 or 70 years later.
I've said enough.
Antonio, do you want to add anything?
:
My name is Julius Tiangson. I'm the executive director of the Gateway Centre for New Canadians. We are a settlement agency in Mississauga, and we primarily serve youth between the ages of 13 to 24.
I'll give you some brief background information about myself. I came to Canada in 1985 as a temporary foreign worker, actually. For about a year and a half, I was in a work exchange program, and I decided at that time that I liked Canada so much that I would immigrate.
I have worked with young people over the last 20 years, primarily among immigrant kids. They come under the live-in caregiver program and also under the permanent residency program--or the normal way, as many would call it. I've worked with families on the impact of some of the immigration policies that we have here in Canada with regard to family reunification and the impact of that with regard to children, youth, and their options for their lives here in Canada.
One of the things that I think we have not been really looking quite carefully into is the role of some of our immigration policies over the last couple of decades and the impact of those in terms of the options that children and young people--newcomers--have as they come and settle here in Canada. I have three observations.
The first observation is with regard to the immigration policy. I think when there is a policy in place that will prolong the reunification of family, there is definitely, from where I sit, an impact on the children and young people of those who came first when they settle here in Canada.
There have been studies out there, some of which are funded by Citizenship and Immigration Canada and by the social development program, in which there is a social impact on the lives of children and youth. There are consequences of that in terms of involvement in organized crime or street gangs. There are some important studies. Right now I cannot simply draw from them, but there are some good studies that have been done on this.
The second observation is that when the majority of the newcomers settle here in this country, their children and young people are, in a way, looking for places to belong, places they can identify themselves with, places where they can be participants and be involved in something that is productive.
Regardless of whether they're temporary foreign workers who have successfully gone through the point system and have become successful immigrants or those who have come through the regular route to immigration--regardless of their status--at the time of settlement, parents of these newcomers do have difficulty in their economic integration into this country, which leaves no other option for their children to actually participate in extra-curricular activities. This would prevent them from getting involved in street gangs.
The third observation, from where I sit, is the role of many organizations in the community, and the role of the provincial, federal, and municipal governments in ensuring that there are truly accessible places that need to be established in many centres in which our newcomers tend to settle. They are in the greater Toronto area, in Montreal, and in Vancouver, and now increasingly in cities like Edmonton and Calgary. These are large centres where, because of the economic opportunities, many of the newcomers and their families tend to settle.
The lack of accessibility, as well as a lack of programming done at the front end of settlement for children and youth, will definitely have the consequence at the back end, as I will call it, of many of the kids getting involved with the law.
We offer an alternative measure service or program in which young people have the alternative of serving their time for their conviction in our centre. What I have observed over the last three years of delivering this service is that a good 80% of newcomer kids who get involved and entangled with the law do so simply because they were in the wrong company, at the wrong time, in the wrong place, with the wrong people. When we begin to prod a little bit further, we find that the majority of them get involved simply because there is no alternative activity or there are no alternative places or stuff that is affordable for them and affordable for their parents.
So accessibility to this programming for newcomer children and youth is a critical component in ensuring that kids who are newcomers do not get involved in street gangs.
:
Well, of course, I emphasize drugs and pot because I'm advocating the legalization of pot to solve the problems. But you're right, there are all those areas and lots of other areas.
Certainly there's people smuggling. I did a documentary on people smuggling. It's a major organized crime activity around the world, and a very lucrative one. The answer to that is a lot more complicated than simply legalizing pot, although that gets rid of a lot of problems.
In terms of union activities and construction, going back 100 years, I would say, in this country, there have been activities, extortion on a very low level, and contract killing. For whatever reason, in our society there are people who want things done to other people. To get something done, who do you go to? You go to someone in the underworld.
Antonio talked about levels of corruption.
Gambling, which is something that Margaret emphasized, is still a major activity. While the government runs most of gambling now, the other major partner is the mob.
Loan sharking is another one that I'm sure you're aware of, which was very, very big in Montreal in the 1970s and 1980s, and even today. People cannot get money from banks.
So we're talking about the whole range of activities. I don't know what percentage is actually drugs. I think the money revenue is coming from drugs.
:
'm advocating that if we are in fact focusing on the kind of activity that puts dirty money into the hands of criminals, that would at least be an area to maintain.
Again, just as I was writing in trying to do this research, the joint force gambling operation in British Columbia was closed down. I thought there was an active joint force operation in Ontario. It turns out that it is now turned into something called pods, and the reason seems to be that gangs and guns are the higher priority.
So not only do the officers who do street-level policing feel that it's not given the priority it needs; they also feel that the local police are losing the expertise to even know what they're looking for.
We did two studies while I was at the Department of the Solicitor General, looking at gaming across the country. In those days I was in Ottawa, so I was riding with the vice guys, and they were pointing out the number of restaurants that had changed hands literally in the course of a game of cards. I was asking the police officer from Toronto whether I could do the same in Toronto, and he said no, they don't drive around and do that kind of law enforcement.
The only explanation I could think of was that again the resources have gone somewhere else. But also, as James or Antonio pointed out, now, with such a proliferation of government-run gambling, there's probably a sense that it's a bit hypocritical to be targeting the illegal operations.
Unfortunately, the illegal operations are not petty-ass things. They're...again, who knows? The question was asked where the largest amount of money comes from. Well, I don't think we should write off gambling. Maybe it's not right up there at the top any more, but it's not piddly-ass.
I'd like to thank each of the panellists for being here this afternoon.
Reverend Tiangson, it's good to see you again. I have some familiarity with the centre you operate in Mississauga, and I want to point out the very good work I believe you're doing there to help newcomer youth and youth of all descriptions, especially at-risk youth. I want to give you an opportunity to tell us in a little more detail about the types of programs you operate there.
By the way, I take your point on immigration policy and how it impacts newcomer youth. I want to thank you for that.
Also, you've heard a number of panellists suggest that legalization of marijuana is the way to go. A couple of years ago, when the former Liberal government mooted decriminalization and legalization of marijuana, Peel police officers came to me, including the Chief of Peel Police, and said to me they thought that would be a really bad idea. In their considered opinion, having run a police operation in a very large, growing, and diverse community, as you point out, for many years, it was an entry-level drug for harder drugs. Not only would it lead to the use of harder drugs, the use of the marijuana itself would lead to other social problems, like increased domestic violence and petty crime, such as theft, to finance the use of the drug, and also impaired driving and motor vehicle accidents.
I wonder if you could comment on what you think the impact would be of legalization of marijuana on the young Canadians that your organization services.
:
We run settlement services under Citizenship and Immigration Canada. It was about two and a half years ago that it was considered a pilot. It seems that they're moving towards having that as a mainstay in the area we serve, simply because of some of the results we're seeing in terms of young people and newcomers.
We integrate up to 300 new arrivals to the city of Mississauga every single year, plus another 200. It's about 500 to 600 young people we take in every single year. We integrate them in the types of programming that interest youth, such as urban dance, graphic design, photography, computer, Adobe Photoshop, and those types of programs that attract young people. In fact, you were there when we had our showcase a couple of weeks ago. Over 300 kids from as many as a dozen different nationalities came together and presented their talents, all of which required a little bit of preparation to get there to perform in the showcase. That means they needed to be involved in a number of group activities and were doing something that would positively impact them and also the community.
Let me speak, also, about the other 200 young people we take in who do not fall under the category of newcomers and do not fall under the category of recipients of direct services under the Citizenship and Immigration program we run. These are the alternative measures program participants, many of whom are children of new immigrants. I would say that a great majority of them have been charged because of marijuana. Maybe they were with their friends and they were in a car with a friend who was stopped and pulled over and it so happened that there was a little bit of marijuana in the ashtray. The consequence of that, if there were three or four people inside the car, was that all of them were charged. Or in fact if some of them had already been involved in partaking of marijuana themselves, the consequence of that was that obviously they were caught and charged. They come to us in a variety of ways, but the great majority of them are charged because of marijuana.
From where I stand, in terms of my understanding of the newcomer community that comes to Canada, it is, in fact, the understanding of many of these cultures that marijuana is still an entry drug of choice among young people that could lead to other forms of drugs. There is a cultural understanding of this among the parents. So when their children actually are charged or get involved with this, regardless of whether they are partakers of marijuana or have been caught with their friends inside a car, they are very concerned. Many of them would actually come and register their children who are 15, 16, or 17 years old. Yesterday there was one who was 19 years old. I have to figure out why she still needs to come with her parents. But I guess there's a cultural understanding that these are our kids, these are our children, and if they get involved with the law and they get involved with marijuana, from a cultural understanding, that is an alarming thing, because that would, in their minds, lead them to getting involved with other drugs.
From my own practice and from my own experience, I get a sense that whenever young people try this thing and don't get intervention, it leads to other social causes, leading to anxiety or depression, the moment they get into their young adult years, leading to all forms of wanting acceptance and so on. This leads to all kinds of other social ills as a result of partaking in this.
:
Mr. Nicaso, I would like to ask you a question. I might get back to some of the things we heard this afternoon around the table. We are studying organized crime. We would like to counter it, maybe eradicate it, but we must find a solution and this is why we are coming to hear from different people in different cities and why we had many witnesses from all over Canada, in Vancouver, in Halifax, etc.
As for me, being a member of the Conservative Party, I will show my colors: we must find a solution and this situation cannot be allowed to persist. Let me explain to you why.
Mr. Nicaso mainly launched a discussion based on some information that we have. In 1924, in Quebec, we established what we called the Régie des alcools in order to control the distribution of alcohol, because a small local mafia was producing and bootlegging moonshine and even claimed that it was good for health. Today, this brings in a billion dollars for the government of Quebec and we have many fatalities on the roads. Some 650 people die because of alcohol and an average 12,000 arrests are made for drunk driving without an accident. This is the first thing. This is what we have always been told in recent years.
In terms of gambling, this is very recent. Quebec took control of gaming. It opened casinos, it sells scratch cards and other gaming tickets. They wanted to get the mafia out of this industry. Now the money is pocketted by the government of Quebec. Before, gamblers who did not pay up were getting killed, today they commit suicide. It is not any better, we have just as many dead except that the killer is not the same.
Then we changed prostitution laws: now only the johns are found guilty. These are our standards. We changed the law and there has been a decision by the Supreme Court. We thought we had solved the problem, but there are still as many prostitutes as before, in Toronto, Montreal or elsewhere. And no one will make be believe that we do not know that there is prostitution. There is lots of it going on every day, at every minute of every hour. Nothing is being done about it since it is impossible to control.
We talk about trafficking in humans. One of you talked about trafficking in humans. We know now that marijuana is no longer important because they now use women. A woman brings in money every day. You do not have to keep buying new merchandise. She works all the time.
I invite you to watch a full report on human trafficking in Montreal that will be broadcast tonight on Radio-Canada. It will help you to better understand what is happening regarding the trafficking of persons.
Also, Mr. Nicaso, I am really worried. You describe the system. Since you have studied this, what are the possible solutions, in your view? What can government do?
We have tried monopolies, we have tried taxes. We have increased taxes on cigarettes, a legal product. But, by increasing taxes, government has increased smuggling.
What should we do? This is why we are having these hearings.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. First of all, my apologies, through you to the witnesses, for my outburst there. It was not very professional, and it rarely happened in my previous profession, although in this one sometimes we have a hard time of it.
I'd like to just say at the outset to Mr. Dubro and to those who feel that legalizing marijuana and other drugs would significantly alleviate the problems we have vis-à-vis crime, etc., that you might be shocked--and I know you know my background--if I were to tell you that I also considered that very strongly, both as a police officer and as a legislator, and the alternatives.
In this country we have trouble enough to prosecute impaired driving because of alcohol--and I know there are abilities to prosecute for the use of drugs. There is accepted evidence in the United States. It would never pass in this country. We have too many people who would throw charter arguments. I think you're aware of retinal recognition. It's accepted in the United States, but it will never be accepted in this country. We have a hard time accepting the breathalyzer. That's number one.
So I looked at the legalization of pot as just too many strokes. Here's what I deduce, and I'd like to hear what you think. You say that the costs associated with drug enforcement are very high. I would say that the costs of the legalized drugs of tobacco and alcohol far, far exceed what we're spending on drug enforcement. Take a look at the family. I went to domestic calls caused by alcohol, a legal drug sold by the government, with profits made by the government. The social pain caused by alcohol....
Sir, I try to understand your libertarian viewpoint, but you would be foisting on this society a third legal drug. As a matter of fact, all those other legal drugs...the pain they would cause. If you think you have a law enforcement problem and a problem with impaired driving now, just you wait and see what our roads are like when people high on heroin and all those other legal drugs....
One mother, from the witnesses, said this to us. We should have something very similar to the liquor control board in the old days, when you would go in and check off a bottle of this type of scotch; you could check off a little heroin for Saturday night and a little oxycontin for this night.
I'm going to ask the analysts for the statistics, which I know are available--the cost of tobacco, which is a drug, which causes addiction. People are addicted to tobacco. We know the billions and trillions of dollars it costs the North American health care system. I want to see what statistics are available to have the societal costs and medical costs of tobacco.
Secondly, I know there are statistics on alcohol, on the amount of days lost because of alcoholism and all those other things. When I was a police officer, we had somebody from the Ontario alcohol and addictions group come into our schools. I didn't know who he was. He was free. It was the community policing group I was working with, because that was one of the programs I was bringing into Northumberland--well, it was already there, but we were enhancing it. He went into the high schools and he talked about kids, and he said, “Did you know that with a lot of use of marijuana...”. And this is what the kids in our high schools were interested in. He said, “I know what they're interested in. You don't know. They're interested in being parents later on, and the use of marijuana reduces your sperm count so you may not have the children you want to have.” There has been no study of marijuana anywhere near the depth of studies into tobacco. We know the horror stories that came out of tobacco. So for marijuana, we've just scratched the surface.
Some universities have done studies, but they're very minor. I guess what I am saying is this. Before we leap into “We have a problem with drugs, legalize them”.... We already have two legalized drugs and they're killing us enough. Look at the cancers caused by tobacco, and the heart problems. Look at the pain and suffering throughout.
So just a few quick comments, starting with Madam Beare and working this way, if I have any time....
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses, but particularly to Mr. Nicaso. In response to Mr. Petit's comments, I heard what I would describe as a cri de coeur.
In fact, I agreed with several things you said, Mr. Nicaso, most of all that I, too, have heard many things that don't make sense, and with the fact that you have quite adequately pointed out that drug traffickers are merchants of death and addiction. By golly, I'm glad the government is not trying to make money in that business. The fact that the only or best solution is to take the money out of crime is I think the most intelligent thing we've heard this afternoon.
I want to say that we--that is, the members of the committee--are all here because we wish to keep Canadians and their families safe from the violence and exploitation of organized crime. We want them to have happy, fulfilled, love-filled, productive, and safe lives.
So, Mr. Dubro, I would like to ask you whether you have any legislative proposal for us that we can hear from you, other than legalizing the sale of marijuana, steroids, ecstasy, crack cocaine, meth, and heroin.
:
Since I've been the main proponent of legalization, as you explained, I didn't come to this conclusion out of any one study or because I use drugs, or anything like that. It has taken me 30-odd years. If you look at some of my books, you'll see that I don't argue this at all, but the opposite: more enforcement, more enforcement, more enforcement. It's not because I'm a libertarian, which is a bit of a bogey argument. I'm saying this as someone who has studied organized crime all my life, that marijuana just has to be available, because it is available.
Mr. Norlock said that making it legal means that more people will use it, and there'll be more sickness, more illness, and everything. That's simply not true, not if it comes with an educational component. There may be fewer people using it. During prohibition, alcohol was illegal and more people drank than ever before, I believe—you can check it out, but they certainly drank quite heavily.
The government is already a “merchant of death”, to use Antonio's very dramatic phrase. I understand where he's coming from, but the government is already a merchant of death with cigarette taxes and with alcohol control and taxes.
In terms of gambling, I think it's iniquitous, some of these ads. I remember before gambling was run by the government. They sneak you into becoming gamblers on television. It doesn't matter what government is in power—Conservative, Liberal, or NDP—they all run these ads saying, “Oh, you can be a millionaire overnight.” That's not what they should be doing. They should actually be using the money they're getting from gambling to tell you how not to get addicted, and to fight the gambling addiction.
So I would argue that making marijuana legal isn't something that I think is good for society or bad for society. It's somewhere in the middle. We have to fight it, obviously. We don't want everyone running around stoned on marijuana, and I don't think they would be. Obviously, to succeed in this world, you can't be stoned, whether it's on alcohol, which is legal, or drugs that you get from your doctor, such as Ritalin, or God knows what they give kids nowadays and they get addicted to. It's not the way you get ahead in this world.
:
I feel very strongly about a couple of things. I realize this is a legislative committee, and I guess my recommendation to you would be to curb the pure focus on legislation, or at least to take into account what are likely going to be the unanticipated consequences for it.
The notion of decriminalization was not to be a major part of my approach, and one of the people commented that that was a simplistic kind of response. Welll, there are some responses that sound like they're so solid, but to me they are simplistic. Take the money out of organized crime. Isn't that wonderful? The headlines, the public, the politicians—it's very popular.
We did a study of all of the RCMP cases that had a money-laundering component. We did that in 1990. In 1994, we did an update. After all the money-laundering legislation, what are the RCMP cases and what do they tell us? Yes, people laundered in all kinds of ways, but mostly they pissed their money away the same way that you and I do. They bought things. This idea of taking money away from organized crime sounds better than it is because of what we have said before.
The criminal organizations are not necessarily Mafia structures like the five families in New York or whatever. You take some money away, yes, but we're talking about fluid, networking organizations that in my mind need ongoing, persistent, well-funded, and to some extent traditional police work. To look over at the United States and say, “Why is Canada so weak and why do they favour our—” Well, look at the United States. It's something like the third prisonized country in the world. Yes, they put out of business their five Mafia families in New York, Detroit, or wherever, but the country has the wide array of organized crime groups that we have in Canada and more so. They put more people in prison, and they have a higher percentage of crime, even taking into account the population.
I do not think we are weak on crime. I would like us to just try to be really intelligent on crime enforcement.
:
Each year our people process over 12.7 million postal shipments, over 9.8 million international passengers, and over 1.7 million commercial shipments.
In the 2008-2009 fiscal year, this region made over 6,400 seizures, approximately 22% of the total number of seizures made throughout Canada. The types of commodities and contraband intercepted within our region vary from agricultural products to watches. The most commonly cited information, however, relates to the interception of drugs.
As these are the commodities most commonly linked to organized crime, I will continue with that trend and relate some information from the 2008-2009 fiscal year. In that period, the GTA region seized over 669.7 kilograms of cocaine, over 139.5 kilograms of opium, over 86 kilograms of heroin, and more than 1,409 kilograms of marijuana, hashish, and hash oil.
Officers working in the region are also successful in intercepting a number of different precursor chemicals used in the manufacture of ecstasy and methamphetamine. In addition to the interception of goods, a number of employees have a role in programs that support immigration inland enforcement. These employees work at various locations, including the immigration holding centre and the Greater Toronto Enforcement Centre, GTEC, and are central to ongoing operations that result in the successful deportation of people deemed inadmissible to Canada.
Some of the core activities include investigations of violations under Immigration and Refugee Protection Act detentions, and removals of persons from Canada. In the 2008-2009 fiscal year, our inland enforcement officers detained approximately 6,500 people and removed 5,081.
Alongside inland enforcement, the criminal investigations division supports the CBSA's public safety and economic security objectives by investigating and initiating prosecutions for criminal offences against Canada's border legislation. They also provide an integrated enforcement capacity, which will detect those who have committed or deter those who would commit breaches of laws administered by the agency by investigating within whatever legal means necessary suspected, alleged, or known misrepresentation, evasions, or commitments of fraud with respect to the international movement of goods and people.
They help their partners by reviewing leads, obtaining research, and gathering crucial evidence to assist the RCMP with their prosecutions. The intelligence division provides support to our front-line officers, the enforcement of inland enforcement, criminal investigations, and other internal areas of CBSA, such as our trade administration. The intelligence officer and analysts work collaboratively on files that pertain to issues such as export control, missing children, fraudulent documents, and smuggling of various types of contraband, including humans, tobacco, illicit drugs, and weapons.
The work done within the intelligence division may be difficult to quantify, unlike counting such actions as a removal or seizure. Valuable intelligence may lie dormant until a catalytic event occurs and calls into action information gleaned from an earlier occurrence. A small detail previously uncovered and developed may only have meaning in the context of other information.
While it may be difficult to measure the myriad of such seemingly insignificant details, they are nonetheless crucial in building a case or project, and minutiae often lead us to make connections to other events or activities, or to come to the realization that an individual is part of a larger group.
It will come as no surprise to the committee that effective sharing of information and intelligence among law enforcement agencies is essential in gaining insight into criminal organizations and their operations. This is the main reason the GTA region is an active participant in a number of joint-force operations, especially those aimed at addressing threats presented by organized crime.
CBSA actively participates in a number of JFOs, or joint force operations. Through the agency, we have successfully carried our duties to the greater good and safety of Canadians. Through our participation in JFOs, CBSA has intercepted contraband such as drugs, firearms, and tobacco, as well as prevented various criminals and individuals who attempt to thwart the immigration process.
In many instances, these coordinated efforts have also contributed to enforcement efforts outside of Canada. CBSA intelligence in the greater Toronto area is currently involved in a number of ongoing JFOs, including the Asian organized crime task force with the Toronto Police Service--
Also the combined forces special enforcement unit; Criminal Intelligence Service Ontario; the guns and gangs unit with the Toronto Police Service; the provincial weapons enforcement unit; the RCMP GTA drug section, Milton and Newmarket; the Toronto airport drug enforcement unit; and the Pearson International Airport intelligence unit, YYZ.
The Greater Toronto Enforcement Centre is involved in the immigration task force JFO, whose objectives are to apprehend persons who are on immigration warrants with criminal backgrounds, subject to security certificates, subject to extradition warrants, or declared a danger by the minister.
Our criminal investigations division participates in joint force operations with the RCMP, immigration and passport, which investigates organized crime. CID passes on cases and works in conjunction with the RCMP on files with organized elements.
One of the major advantages of working within a JFO is the access to and the availability of information from other law enforcement agencies. Information obtained from all agencies can often make a determination regarding which targets to pursue or the direction a specific project will take.
I will use our experience in partnering with the Pearson International Airport intelligence unit, also known as the YYZ airport intelligence unit, to underscore the value that these partnerships bring. The YYZ airport intelligence unit serves as a primary intelligence contributor to the intelligence and law enforcement community in the Toronto area. The quality of the intelligence reports prepared for dissemination by the unit is possible by virtue of the vast amount of raw information that is gathered by local sources.
The intelligence gathered by members of this unit is essential to the safe operation of Lester B. Pearson International Airport. The YYZ airport intelligence unit determines which intelligence information can be forwarded to the appropriate law enforcement agencies locally and globally for further enforcement action.
Information provided to various local airport security officials, including Transport Canada, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, and the Greater Toronto Airport Authority, has resulted in the dismissal of over 50 airport employees. A number of employees are presently being investigated.
In late July 2009, credible information was received to indicate that the Outlaws motorcycle gang was assembling in Ontario over the August long weekend. This information was promptly disseminated through the province by the GTA region intelligence division. A total of seven individuals, members of an Outlaws motorcycle gang, were denied entry into Canada by CBSA.
In October 2009, intelligence officers, along with GTEC enforcement officers, partnered with the Toronto Police Service's guns and gangs unit and we were successful in conducting raids that resulted in the arrest of nine individuals under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Those arrested were members of a gang known as the Almighty Latin King and Queen Nation. This gang came to the attention of law enforcement agencies in Toronto when it initiated a high-profile aggravated assault on a subway station in which four victims were stabbed.
The gang is one of the largest criminal street gangs in the United States and is well established in most Latin American countries. It is believed that the gang opened chapters in Ontario approximately five years ago and is now operating and actively recruiting in the greater Toronto area. Gang membership is estimated at 200 within the GTA.
As a part of the overall collaboration and contribution of all CBSA divisions within the GTA region, along with our numerous external partnerships with other law enforcement agencies, we have had numerous successful outcomes, which have disrupted and dismantled various organized crimes.
I'd like to thank you, and I'd be pleased to answer any questions.
:
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to address the panel on behalf of the Ontario Provincial Police.
The Ontario Provincial Police has a mandated responsibility to investigate, disrupt, and dismantle organized crime. In order to accomplish this goal, the OPP developed the Organized Crime Enforcement Bureau, which is comprised of specialized integrated investigative bodies such as the biker enforcement unit and the provincial weapons enforcement unit.
The OCEB is comprised of four main operating centres strategically located throughout Ontario. We operate on an intelligence-led policing model, establishing tactical priorities throughout the province, allowing us to identify and attack the vulnerabilities of organized crime, as per the goals of the Canadian integrated response to organized crime.
The OPP supports legislative amendments and reform designed to combat organized crime as defined by , which received royal assent and came into force on October 2, 2009. has taken a strong step forward in bolstering existing legislation with a specific focus on criminal acts related to organized crime and revised judicial processes. This new legislation has focused on designating all gang-related murders as first degree murder, addressed increasing incidents of reckless and drive-by shootings by creating a new offence, and defined a new offence for assaults against police.
There are clearly a number of strong initiatives on this legislative agenda to target organized crime. The OPP believes the justice sector community must prioritize these initiatives to ensure the effective and efficient use of our resources as we move forward with strategies to attack organized crime. The Ontario Provincial Police has identified three main priorities.
The number one priority is lawful access. The OPP, the Toronto Police Service, and our regional municipal partners recognize the need for changes to existing legislation surrounding lawful access to communications. One of law enforcement's unrelenting challenges in addressing organized crime is to remain cognizant of emerging trends and to take proactive and effective steps to counter these trends. In a world of accelerating technological developments and society's increasing absorption with technology, law enforcement has been slowly constricted by antiquated legislation and a lack of resources to effectively counter advances in technology.
The Investigative Powers for the 21st Century Act, Bill C-46, and the Technical Assistance for Law Enforcement in the 21st Century Act, Bill C-47, passed first reading in June 2009. However, they died when Parliament was prorogued. It is hoped that these pieces of legislation will be reintroduced to address the gaps and restrictions previously identified. As such, the Ontario Provincial Police strongly endorses and supports the passage of these bills.
The second priority is e-disclosure. The traditional method of making full disclosure has created an enormous challenge for police and crowns, particularly in relation to organized crime investigations. The impact on resources and personnel is significant and, as such, the Ontario Provincial Police fully endorses and supports current efforts to reform, modernize, and streamline the disclosure process.
An excellent example of this was demonstrated recently in Operation SharQc, a large-scale investigation in Quebec that resulted in the arrests of hundreds of individuals. Investigators utilized a highly effective web-based solution to capture and streamline large volumes of disclosure for this mega-case. The OPP continues to strongly endorse and champion further advancements within this new technology.
The third area is justice efficiencies. In case management, the investigation and prosecution of organized crime cases is very complex and demands significant time and personnel, combined with the collection, collation, and disclosure of evidence. In most major organized crime investigations, there are multiple offenders. However, previous experience has shown us that investigating and effectively prosecuting a large number of accused is very unmanageable, time consuming, and very expensive. The OPP believes this area to be a priority for setting attainable and realistic goals and garnering solid convictions in relation to mega-trials.
On scheduling, having reviewed evidence provided to provincial panels representing the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, I would be remiss if I didn't speak to the proposed scheduling of criminal organizations.
The OPP acknowledges the complexity of scheduling or proscribing criminal organizations. There are a number of factors to consider in populating such a schedule. However, the OPP also contends that it is an overwhelmingly onerous task to repeatedly prove that a particular group is a criminal organization, despite having been deemed a criminal organization by our own judiciary.
A case in point is the designation of the Hells Angels in Canada as a criminal organization, as noted in a number of rulings stemming from recent investigations across Canada. Despite this designation being rendered in a number of trials, police must not only prove the substantive charge but in each and every case must proffer evidence to support this same group as a criminal organization. This creates a significant burden for investigators in these cases, as it becomes a parallel investigation requiring sufficient personnel and resources to support classification of the gang as a criminal organization.
The OPP is an active participant in examining this issue and remains committed to the process. The OPP also supports recommendations put forward in the 2007 organized crime summit to strengthen cooperation and collaboration, improve information sharing among agencies, and continue the expansion of strategies for an integrated response to organized crime.
Strong partnerships among law enforcement, prosecutors, and supporting elements of the criminal justice network are key to successfully disrupting and dismantling organized crime. The integrated joint force operations model has been particularly successful in attacking organized crime. The OPP continues to lead or participate in the provincial operations centre, the biker enforcement unit, and the provincial weapons enforcement unit. Units such as the biker enforcement unit have been internationally acknowledged as the template for similar investigative units throughout Canada and the world.
Furthermore, in line with discussions stemming from the June 2008 organized crime summit, the OPP fully supports and believes in the importance of maintaining a national intelligence database, ongoing research, and enhanced training platforms.
The intelligence-led policing philosophy is dependent upon law enforcement's collective ability to share intelligence in a timely and integrated manner. This has led to the establishment of a national intelligence database--ACIIS--the automated criminal intelligence information system. We support the continued effort to enhance the system's ability to be an effective tool for law enforcement investigation of organized crime.
We are more effective as a policing community if we continuously research and develop better methodologies, legislation, and best practices, remaining open to learning from our national and international partners. It is critical to this development. Organized crime is mobile, opportunistic, and encroaching, and we must adapt to trends and burgeoning issues with an informed and effective response.
Training is a critical factor in addressing organized crime investigations. We need to develop a centre of excellence to promote and sanction strategies to provide police, prosecutors, and correctional staff with core competencies and training in all facets of organized-crime investigation. Coordinated training and integration of police and prosecutors provides a solid base to launch these complex prosecutions. The face of organized crime is fluid, and in order to remain effective we must provide the vehicle to gain expertise and to retain those experts to provide the consistency needed to investigate organized crime.
In summation, there are great law enforcement investigations and initiatives being conducted throughout the country, as evidenced by multiple cases designating the Hells Angels a criminal organization in Canada. The results have accumulated in an extensive list of strategies to combat organized crime. We believe it is of paramount importance that we prioritize our efforts and set attainable goals and firm target dates to maintain this momentum of reform and modernization, thus giving police and prosecutors the support and tools to effectively combat organized crime.
Thank you.
:
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the panel. My name is Randy Franks. I'm an inspector for the Toronto Police Service, and I work in organized crime enforcement. I'll speak about some of the issues facing Toronto.
Recent enforcement successes have had a profound impact on the behaviour of organized crime in Toronto. Between 2005 and 2009, a number of large-scale enforcement projects and initiatives have focused on the disruption of street gangs and other organized groups. Intelligence analysis of the enforcement initiatives indicates that displacement of criminal organizations throughout the GTA has been accomplished. This of course presents law enforcement with another challenge: properly identifying the relative success and failure of these operational initiatives and adapting these for greater future success.
The adaptation of these disrupted groups, as well as their evolution into more disorganized entities, also presents various challenges. Groups no longer act alone, are more fluid, with the subjects of interest playing a larger role in other criminal enterprises. With any illicit trade, groups strive to gain or maintain a competitive edge. Intelligence indicates that organized crime has embraced outsourcing and cooperation as the means to gain that competitive edge.
Recent enforcement initiatives undertaken by the Toronto Police Service and the OPP provide an example of the outsourcing and cooperative relationship between outlaw motorcycle gangs and more traditional crime groups. The biker groups appear to act as enforcers for debt collection. As recently as five years ago, organized crime groups tended to be self-sufficient, whereas now these groups are more likely to work with competitors in the presence of an attractive market.
One of these attractive markets is of course the United States of America. Increasing demand for ecstasy in the United States has prompted ecstasy producers in Canada to increase their production. Prices for ecstasy in the U.S. are double or triple the price that is received in Canada. As such, Canadian ecstasy distributors and producers profit greatly from selling the drug in the U.S. Due to this increase in production, divisions in Toronto previously impacted by ecstasy are finding greater risk due to wider availability in downtown Toronto, and that is one area that's been consistently impacted by ecstasy and related illicit drugs in 2008 and 2009.
The recent increase in ecstasy prices in Toronto has coincided with the increase and rise in the seizure of a drug called benzylpiperazine, commonly known as BZP. The effect of this drug is believed to be similar to MDMA, which is ecstasy, and the effects produced by BZP are comparable to those produced by other amphetamines. This past month 700 pills of BZP were seized by the Toronto police, and it is expected that future seizures may be larger due to an increase in the price of ecstasy. This drug is currently not a controlled drug in Canada, despite the identical appearance and effect to the more prevalent ecstasy.
Gang violence, especially firearms-related activity, is one of the bigger threats facing Toronto. Recent trends have shown violent crime migrating to the more heavily populated downtown core. Most alarming is the apparent infiltration of gun crime and gang violence in every neighbourhood across the city. However, the majority of gun deaths are still in the inner suburbs where gun culture is ingrained.
We find that street gangs are involved in drug trafficking, street and commercial robberies, home invasions, break and enters, firearms handling, shootings, and murders. The increase in gang-related homicides and shootings over the past decade can be attributed to the increase in the availability of restricted and prohibited firearms stolen from domestic sources and those imported illegally.
A review of the historical and current data systems have identified thousands of domestic firearms being illegally possessed at this time. The Toronto police initiated a project called safe city last March 1, 2009, and this was developed to address this issue. Since the safe city initiative commenced, there have been a total of 1,620 firearms seized. Of these firearms, 58% have been prohibited and restricted.
To quantify the success of this initiative simply by the number of firearms seized would not be an accurate measure of its far-reaching impact. It is unknown how many lives just one seized firearm can ultimately save and how that single seizure will impact the quality of life for individuals living within the city.
The safe city initiative has, at a minimum, identified a need within our city for the continued monitoring, education, and enforcement of the non-compliance of legitimate firearms owners. If left unchecked, illegal firearms will be left in these homes, where they could quite possibly be stolen and diverted to the illicit firearm market. For individuals who have chosen to ignore the provisions that exist within the Firearms Act, the Toronto Police Service will assist them in disposing of any unwanted firearms or in advising them how to obtain a valid firearms licence. Fewer firearms on the street will only prove to enhance community safety and assist in gun-related incidents.
One of the most important aspects of intelligence gathering and enforcement is in identifying the how, who, where, and why criminal groups and individuals should be targeted. This must be followed by an assessment of the effectiveness of the police response.
For the Toronto Police Service to be successful in disrupting organized criminal activity, it must adapt to the evolving criminal landscape. As the world shrinks socially, economically, and politically, criminal networks can become more diffuse, generating more linkages between criminals from different ethnic, social, and cultural groups. As previously seen in both social and environmental movements, law enforcement officials must continue to act locally. However, they must learn to think globally where enforcement initiatives are being developed.
Illicit markets often mimic those in such traditional commodities as gold, silver, oil, and minerals. One of the examples of that is metal thefts that occur when the price of metal goes up.
Market demands in foreign countries can often have influences over local drug markets. Producers of illicit drugs no longer have to adapt to changes on their street corners. They can instead look to new opportunities in cities south of the border or across the oceans.
The Toronto Police Service recognizes that criminal intelligence information only becomes vital when properly analyzed and shared. Intelligence-led policing, to be successful, must assist in identifying and prioritizing targets so that resources are used to the best effect. This is a model of policing in which an intelligence product serves as a guide to police operations. Since all organized crime groups are fluid and operate across jurisdictional boundaries, law enforcement must do the same. Sharing of information is key, and with current systems not being used to their full potential, it is recommended that a new national data warehouse be established to share all timely, relevant, and accurate intelligence information.
Bryan spoke about ACIIS. I'm sure you're aware that ACIIS is being enhanced, and any support from this committee to that effort would be appreciated.
Finally, all law enforcement agencies, including the Toronto Police Service, must adapt to the increasing sophistication of organized crime. Criminal groups use the latest technology not only to further their enterprises, they also use this expertise to evade law enforcement. Something as simple as the use of social networking sites is one facet of organized crime communication that is not fully exploited by us in law enforcement. When virtual digital means of money laundering come into the equation, police agency initiatives are almost non-existent at the local level.
That's the Toronto Police Service.
:
Good afternoon. I'm Peter Shadgett. I am pleased to be here to talk about organized crime issues in the province of Ontario from the perspective of Criminal Intelligence Service Ontario.
I received a call from the director of Criminal Intelligence Service Canada on Tuesday. He asked me to talk specifically about the uniqueness of CISO in relation to all the other criminal intelligence services across the country, so I thought I would start with that today. If you're following along in my document, you'll see, a couple of pages in, “An Integrated Response”. That is where I'll begin.
Public safety in Ontario does not depend primarily on federal agencies but upon the actions and activities of local municipal, regional, provincial, and federal police and on those public sector agencies responsible for enforcement and investigation. This is particularly true in the current intelligence-led policing environment.
CISO is the critical element in the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services efforts to address organized crime at the local, provincial, and national level through participation with other provincial bureaux through CISC. It's the oldest criminal intelligence service in Canada, and due to its partnership with law enforcement and its reporting relationship to the Government of Ontario, it is also the most flexible and unique. Created in 1966 as a partnership between the Government of Ontario and the provincial law enforcement community in response to concerns expressed in the Ontario Royal Commission on Organized Crime, CISO was established to ensure central co-ordination of intelligence data on individuals and organizations involved in organized crime.
The mission is to promote intelligence-based unified action on organized crime in Ontario. Its vision is to promote a unified intelligence enterprise across the province and ensure safer communities for all the citizens of Ontario.
Our strategy is to unify and transform police, regulatory, and special interest group information into intelligence products and services that promote knowledge-based action by policy-makers, police leaders, investigators, and intelligence personnel.
CISO is the conduit by which criminal intelligence pertaining to serious and organized crime in the province is shared, analyzed, and communicated through its various databases and among its 120 partner agencies.
Mandated by a constitution, CISO is composed of a governing body, representing the executive decision-making level in the form of chiefs of police or managers of various member agencies; an operating body, representing the various intelligence unit commanders or their designates; and a provincial bureau, which is in effect a dedicated all-source fusion centre from which it strives to provide to its 120 partner agencies a strategic situational awareness on organized crime and other serious criminal offences.
In order to facilitate this free flow of criminal intelligence information, the CISO provincial bureau is positioned within the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services. The director reports to both the assistant deputy minister for public safety for administration and to the governing body operationally.
The provincial bureau is uniquely situated because of its ability to apolitically analyze and disseminate criminal intelligence based on information forwarded to it by various member agencies at the federal—both Canadian and U.S. agencies—provincial, and municipal levels.
The provincial bureau administers a number of program areas on behalf of CISO and the government dedicated to the continuous evolution of intelligence-led policing across Ontario. These include but are not limited to a dedicated intelligence training program, which facilitates the development of a cadre of professional intelligence officers, technical officers, and covert operatives and analysts for all police agencies in Ontario; a technical resource program dedicated to assisting partner agency collection efforts through the provision of highly sensitive, highly technical, and highly expensive surveillance and collection equipment; the Ontario-based administration of the ACIIS system; the provincial undertaking to digitize historic and current operational intelligence files; the only dedicated joint forces funding program in Canada, a program that oversees the delivery of annual funding to organized crime investigations and related joint forces projects, by which CISO funds up to 50% of all operational expenses related to organized crime investigations, with at least two other funding partners from the policing community funding the rest of the operating expenditures, as well as salaries for investigators, analysts, et cetera. Also, there's the integrated analytical services program, designed to provide a tiered, strategic, all-source analysis to partner agencies on provincial and national priorities relating to organized crime.
The public policy objectives of the government are enhanced by providing for a province-wide coordinated response to community safety and security matters arising from organized crime. The local and provincial policing priorities and needs are best met through joint and cooperative action developed throughout the CISO partnership.
As one example of how this partnership works, I would like to draw your attention to the CISO training program. The Government of Ontario's contribution to this program, its investment in this program, is the funding of three full-time equivalent employees to manage it. These FTEs are positioned at the CISO provincial bureau and deployed to the Ontario Police College. However, the human resources required to stay on top of critical and emerging training priorities, including significant expansion of the number of intelligence training courses and the implementation of a province-wide outreach program that provides training for 300 students annually, could not be handled by these three FTEs alone. The partnership supports the training by providing instructors and/or lecturers free for each course as it is delivered. It also commits to mentoring and developing newly trained police officers upon their graduation from the training.
This method of sharing and integrating the cost of training across the CISO partnership is the cornerstone of success of the CISO program. It is but one example of how CISO has maintained a high-level rating for service delivery, consistently achieving a 100% satisfaction level, based on the provincial customer satisfaction survey results.
CISO endorses three main priorities, which are key to the effective and efficient disruption and suppression of organized crime networks.
Similar to the OPP practice in terms of lawful access, the Investigative Powers for the 21st Century Act, Bill , and the Technical Assistance for Law Enforcement in the 21st Century Act, Bill , passed first reading in June 2009. These are important developments in the area of lawful access and are integral to the success of ongoing police efforts to combat organized crime.
Intelligence-led policing requires police agencies to work together at the operational, tactical, and strategic levels and to share responsibility, authority, and accountability at each of these levels. It requires a strategic approach to anticipate, prevent, deter, or efficiently respond to routine front-line policing requirements and to more sophisticated threats, such as an escalation in street violence and organized crime. Making sound decisions on the basis of incomplete information is inherently problematic, and the more imperfect the information, the more difficult it will be to make good decisions. Sharing of information in this environment is an imperative critical to the success of police efforts.
Accordingly, CISO strongly endorses the ongoing use of the automated criminal intelligence information system, or ACIIS, as an interim measure. The platform supporting the system is antiquated, which leads to data entry, support, and retrieval difficulties. The proposed Canadian criminal intelligence model and the newly proposed Canadian criminal intelligence system as a national intelligence base with ongoing research and development are very welcome initiatives. However, funding is always an issue, and as this is inherently a national police service initiative, it is CISO's position that it should be funded appropriately at that level.
Additionally, there are still-valid arguments that suggest that the institutional model under which police services operate is too compartmentalized and has proven to significantly hamper the flow of information from federal police agencies such as the RCMP to other federal, provincial, and municipal partners. Specifically, matters of federal security clearances, national security databases, and restrictive reporting structures inhibit true integration and effective information sharing. This needs to be remedied to ensure that full intelligence sharing takes place.
Finally, CIROC, the Canadian integrated response to organized crime, was established in 2007 as the operational component of the Canadian law enforcement strategy to combat organized crime. The mandate of the CIROC program is to coordinate a strategic plan for fighting organized or serious crime through the integration of Canadian police efforts at the municipal, provincial/territorial, regional, and national levels. The goal is to operationalize intelligence produced by CISC in partnership with the CIS provincial bureaux.
A key objective of the CIROC program is to increase inter-provincial cooperation as it relates to intelligence sharing and operational coordination in Canada. CIROC is building the foundation that will enable law enforcement agencies across the country to share information in a more timely, reliable, and efficient manner. It is expected that this improved communication will translate into enhanced operational success.
The Ontario pilot project took place over the past year. This project is part of a joint undertaking between Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, CISO, and the CIROC national committee. As with any new initiative, operationalizing the Ontario CIROC project has been a dynamic learning process, requiring the fine tuning of original concepts along the way as stakeholders adjust to the new ways of doing business.
The pilot has revealed a number of key findings that have pointed the way to critical steps to be taken. Among these lessons are the need to establish a communications strategy that reflects the complex nature of the CIROC project as it unfolds; the need for a greater number of police services to adopt intelligence-led policing as an all-encompassing operational strategy, as opposed to strategy utilized by simply an intelligence unit; and the need to clarify and expand the role of the local CIROC liaison officers, who are integral to the success of the project, and any other staff or officers involved in the process.
CISO fully endorses the continuation of the pilot in Ontario, with continued support from CISC, and suggests the development of further pilots in other provinces across Canada.
In summation, informed decision-making is the ultimate goal of intelligence. Combined efforts in Ontario continue to work toward bridging not one single intelligence gap, but rather multiple intelligence gaps. A more comprehensive picture of the impact of organized crime and the development of strategies to disrupt it requires that law enforcement achieve a more complete understanding of the criminal actors involved, the connections between and among criminals and their organizations, the activities carried out by those criminal actors and their organizations, as well as the social and economic conditions that motivate them and create opportunities for offences to be committed.
CISO is a model for alternative service delivery that should be viewed as a potential model for other government and policing operations and recommended as a partnership prototype for other provinces in the battle against organized crime.
The focus of CISO is centred on a number of activities central to combatting organized crime, and if you implemented this across the country, you would include analysis and interpretation of organized crime enforcement operations; exchange of intelligence information at the operational level through program delivery and electronic databases; funding and specialized support for joint force multi-jurisdictional criminal investigations; ongoing development of expertise and best practices through a centralized intelligence training program; undercover operations support; proactive development investigator knowledge as it pertains to legal developments, trends, and methods pertaining to lawful access; and providing a coordinating mechanism for the police community and the government to work together to address organized crime problems.
Thank you.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Robert Davis, and I'm the district commander for the RCMP's federal and international operations service delivery here in the greater Toronto area. On behalf of the RCMP and specifically O Division, I thank you for providing Inspector Penney and me with this opportunity.
The committee has invited us to discuss the state of organized crime. I will be directing my remarks principally in the context of the GTA. I would like to begin by taking a very brief moment to highlight relevant information regarding the GTA.
According to recent census figures, the GTA represents less than 1% of the geographic expanse of Ontario, yet it is home to more than 5,500,000 people, and these figures are three years old. Over 140 languages and dialects are spoken here, and approximately 44% of the population lists a language other than English or French as a mother tongue. In addition, the GTA is Canada's largest immigrant receiving area; more than 70% of residents over 15 years of age are either immigrants or the children of immigrants.
The GTA contains the seat of the provincial government and is the industrial and financial capital of Canada. It contains the country's largest and busiest airport, which in 2008 saw passenger traffic of over 32 million people and processed some 45% of all of Canada's air cargo. It is also within one day's drive of 135 million people in two countries.
In short, our immediate field of play is a comparatively small piece of real estate containing the financial hub of the country, close to 20% of the population, enormous domestic and international political influence, and a community that is a tremendous mosaic in terms of culture, heritage, education, business, religion, and common interests. In other words, there are an enormous number of variables, which in turn present an abundance of opportunity to criminal organizations and at the same time significant challenges to law enforcement and the community as a whole.
The RCMP's policing environment in the GTA--and in Ontario and Quebec, for that matter--is different from what it is in most other areas in the country. City, regional, and provincial police services have primary jurisdiction, while the RCMP in these non-contract provinces is primarily responsible for the enforcement of federal statutes and national security matters. Our GTA district federal policing is predominantly project-based and focused on criminal organizations. Typically these investigations are long-term, multi-jurisdictional, and costly. Fortunately, we enjoy close informal and formal working relationships with our policing partners.
Within this environment we have seen, and continue to witness, the evolution of criminal organizations in both number and variety. From historical secret societies--which still do exist--to the vast array of more recent criminal enterprises, adaptability is the cornerstone defining their survival and success. Our enforcement initiatives have identified a move from traditional heritage-based organized crime groups to multicultural criminal organizations forging alliances that are fluid in both duration and scope. The basis of these alliances is a common purpose and the requisite criminal capabilities.
Regardless of the illicit commodity, the sole purpose of any criminal organization is the acquisition and legitimization of wealth. To accomplish this goal, they have studied and embraced many of society's legitimate approaches to the 21st century. They outsource, they apply the latest advances in technology, and they consider law enforcement response as well as potential legal sanctions in the context of their undertakings. They also seek vulnerabilities and co-opt individuals from all sectors who have influence or knowledge that would further their goals. Examples range from government employees with access to passport documentation or knowledge of internal security processes to personnel within banking and related businesses, such as the money service businesses used to transfer money around the world.
Criminal organizations take active steps to mitigate risk. An example would be the compartmentalization of organizations active across the country or across countries. Many investigations directed at criminal organizations are commenced locally, yet take on a national or international dimension in short order. In one instance, the lead criminal organization was formed in one country and the commodity in a second, while the movement of the commodity between a third and fourth country was outsourced to other criminal enterprises. Canada was the third country in that scenario. This creates numerous issues relating to jurisdictions, the various systems of law, and sovereignty.
I understand you have spoken to a number of other sources across Canada regarding today's subject matter, and from what I have read, many of those discussions have focused on drugs. The drug world, with its rapid and high return, and its high sanctions, routine violence, and tremendous visible human carnage, is a universal subject when discussing organized crime. There is no doubt in my mind that drugs are one of the mainstays for organized crime. We see the illicit drug trade as an underlying influence across almost all federal programs here in the GTA, from identity theft to counterfeit currency to airport security.
Inspector Penney has been good enough to accompany me today, and he can address any questions on organized crime that are specific to drug enforcement.
Organized crime is involved in many activities and commodities other than the drug trade. It is an area I would like to take a few minutes to speak about, as it is all too often overlooked.
Human smuggling, counterfeit pharmaceuticals trafficked through the Internet, market and securities frauds, insurance fraud, tax fraud, tobacco smuggling, mass marketing schemes, counterfeit DVDs and electronic games, counterfeit banking instruments, and identify theft all generate great wealth at dramatically reduced risk to criminal enterprise when compared to drug trafficking. In some of these cases, profits can be just as high as in the drugs cases, tobacco smuggling for example, but the risk of prosecution and the criminal sanction upon conviction is considerably lower.
These crimes are not victimless, and they are extensive. Criminal groups that engage in these activities recognize that police resources are limited and that communities expect their more serious threats to be addressed first.
Legal sanctions associated with many other related federal statutes should be refreshed in order to provide real deterrence to current big criminal organizations. In some instances, the legislation itself should be reviewed and expanded. For instance, copyright offences are specifically excluded from proceeds of crime legislation, thereby limiting the ability to restrain assets derived from illegal activity. Also there is a lack of parity between current legislation and the speed of evolution in communications technology. Lawful access must be realized, as current technology permits criminal organizations to virtually hide in plain sight. I believe communication technology companies, including Internet service providers, should be guided by legislation that facilitates our lawful accessing of the information we need to bring criminal organizations before the courts. This speaks to encryption and the ever-changing digital communication platforms.
I am aware that Assistant Commissioner Mike Cabana appeared before the committee in March of last year and spoke to the issue of lawful access, as well as the challenges to law enforcement associated with disclosure. I will not belabour the point, but I will say that the current applications of disclosure weigh very heavily on all police operations. Disclosure reaches back in time and across jurisdictions, but it must be relevant disclosure. When already stretched resources are further encumbered in responding to no more than a subjective interpretation of a prosecutor or the delaying tactics of the defence, our capacity and capability are unnecessarily diminished. In the absence of defendable standards, it can be a tool to frustrate and exhaust legitimate enforcement. It can also cause crucial international partners to view us with considerable reticence.
In closing, Mr. Chair, the RCMP, particularly the GTA District Command, is committed to effectively challenging organized crime. This requires an ability to address gaps between the evolving capabilities of criminal organizations and the capabilities of law enforcement to respond to them.
Thank you.
Thank you, witnesses.
It seems we could all agree on a number of things that can be done here by us in recommending things to the government like reinstating Bill C-46, Bill C-47 and lawful access, sorting out the funding challenges to ACIIS, and the general resourcing of policing in Canada. There is some work to be done by all stakeholders on disclosure.
I consider many of those things as things that are either under way or should be under way. I don't want to concentrate on them. I think they're real issues, and you brought them up. I'm glad to hear Superintendent Davis speak about technology. He used some wonderful phrases we'll use again in compelling the telecommunications companies, the Internet service providers, and the device manufacturers to use devices that are susceptible to surveillance and therefore, as we would say, allow a discretion-based judicial interference. If you can't get hold of it, it's hard to say a judge can control access to it. I'm not worried about the civil liberties aspect as long as there's judicial discretion. We can't even get in the door. That's stuff we all agree on.
I have observed three things that I'd like brief comments on. First, in places like Winnipeg, youth seem to be used as pawns in organized crime for various crimes. It doesn't matter if it's Winnipeg, it's all across the country. We're looking at new youth legislation amendments to the YCJA, the Youth Criminal Justice Act. I'd be interested in your comments in general about youth and how they play a role in organized crime.
Second is civil forfeiture, getting at the proceeds of crime and getting at the money. It seems to me we learned in Vancouver that there must be a heavy civil network of civilians who aren't involved in organized crime but who nevertheless provide the support for it, building supply companies, etc., who must know or must be made to know they're supporting organized crime. I was interested in your comments on that.
Finally, especially as it pertains to the Canada Border Services Agency, we have a huge border. We routinely have a problem with gun violence. We have little debate going on about that in Ottawa, by the way, on how to attack that. It's routinely the case that a lot of these weapons aren't from Canada in any way. They get over the border somehow. We talk about money, drugs, guns, and technology. If you can get a handle on those four things through federal instruments, we'd all be helping each other.
I'd like some comments on those things from anyone.
:
In the police profession, as I'm sure you've heard, there are all kinds of competing resources and issues that come forward.
When CISO started 45 years ago, it was as a result of a royal inquiry into what everybody will understand as and call today “traditional” organized crime, which used very specific methodologies. If violence was used, for example, it would be strategic violence as opposed to impulsive violence.
What's occurring today, in my view, when I look at the greater Toronto area and the prevalence of street gangs—and I'll let my Toronto friend counteract what I say if he wishes to—is that the violence is sometimes strategic and often it's impulsive. Then you have retribution after that, and it follows back and forth.
Our focus in law enforcement is on the street-level violence that is occurring in Canada or other major crimes that are occurring.
I forgot to mention earlier that I am a superintendent with the OPP. In my previous job, I was responsible for the OPP anti-rackets branch and major crime, crimes against the government, and we set up a corruption investigation unit.
There is lots and lots of work to be done, lots of investigations to be done, even just for transparency's sake alone if people make allegations. The problem is maintaining the resources dedicated to those investigations when all the other competing resources are happening in major crime.
In the OPP's context, responding to province-wide requests for assistance in homicides, some very famous ones that have occurred in the last few months in outlying communities in Ontario that are not OPP jurisdiction but the OPP has funded and supported those investigators, those investigators came from the corruption and anti-racket side of the house. A number of them came from there.
So it's a constant juggling act where we deal with the organized crime that we can deal with, when we have the time for it. I don't think we really have as good a look at the potential for corruption that has occurred over time in the government.
Thank you, witnesses, for coming today.
I have a few questions based on some previous witnesses. I won't go into their philosophic views on law enforcement and the legalization of drugs and things like that. I'm of the assumption that, having been a police officer, we share the same view on that. However, feel free to interject and correct me if I'm wrong.
The legalization of marijuana and every single drug on the list, which is what one of the witnesses said, is not on our dinner plate. That said, though, one of the witnesses, Mr. Antonio Nicaso, who has studied organized crime both in Canada and internationally—specifically Italy—was of the opinion that we are not serious about investigating organized crime, because we have so few resources spent on it.
Without going into the numbers of personnel or the exact amount of money, or things like that, I'd just like to have your collective opinion on, first, whether you feel that we are serious enough about organized crime. We never have enough resources—no one in government ever has enough resources—but do you see within your purview an ability to readjust funding so that we are serious about organized crime?
That would be the first question. I'd like just a short response, without the numbers of personnel but at least the percentage of your budget, or a rough estimate, and then I'll go on with a couple of other questions.
Perhaps we can begin with CBSA.