:
Good morning everyone and welcome to the 35th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we proceed with the study of bilingualism within the Coast Guard.
I have a few points to submit to you, committee members. First, it will be recalled that the L'Acadien II tragedy occurred exactly two months ago today. Three investigations into that tragedy are underway: that of the Coast Guard, that of the Transportation Safety Board, which will be public, and that of the RCMP.
The purpose of our meeting is to examine the Coast Guard's linguistic obligations. The Joint Rescue Coordination Centre, which is managed jointly by the Coast Guard and National Defence, also intervenes in rescue operations. That is why we have a representative from that agency here this morning. But we will of course focus on the Coast Guard.
I have been informed that the Coast Guard has an audio excerpt of a conversation between Ms. Aucoin and the Coast Guard. Out of respect for the families and relatives, and as Ms. Aucoin is the mother of the fourth victim of that tragedy, a victim whose body has not been found, I've been asked that that part be heard in camera, with the consent of committee members, of course.
:
The usual in camera procedures will apply, but, for the moment, we are in a public meeting and we will be as well after we have heard the audio recording.
That point being clarified, I thank committee members for their sensitivity to the individuals involved in this ordeal.
This morning, we have Michelle d'Auray, Deputy Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. She is accompanied by Mr. George Da Pont, Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard, and Lieutenant General Marc Dumais, Commander, Canada Command. Without further ado, let's begin the hearing of the witnesses.
Ms. d'Auray, welcome to the committee.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We thank you for this opportunity to be with you this morning. We'll be making a few preliminary remarks, each in our turn. I will begin and will be followed by Lt. General Dumais, then Commissioner Da Pont. We're going to explain the roles and responsibilities of our various components and provide you with an overview of how communications for search and rescue operations function. To conclude, before the hearing of the recording, I will provide some brief background to the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre.
We necessarily appreciate that it is unfortunately the after-effects of the tragic incident involving the fishing boat L'Acadien II that occurred in the night of March 28 to 29 last, during the seal hunt near Cape Breton, that have brought us before your committee today. In the wake of that incident, questions have been raised about French-language communications during the rescue operations.
Allow me first to acknowledge and emphasize how difficult this incident has been for the families and friends of those who were lost, for the survivors and their families, and for the community at large. I sympathize and I am sure my colleagues also sympathize with them with all their heart.
I must also tell you that, as you said, Mr. Chairman, three investigations into this incident are currently underway. One is being conducted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to assess whether a criminal investigation is warranted; a second is being conducted by the Transportation Safety Board of Canada, which has a legal mandate to determine the causes and underlying factors that led to the accident; and, lastly, a review by the Coast Guard was launched immediately following the incident, to examine whether the relevant policies and procedures were followed.
We have retained an independent investigator for this review, Retired Rear-Admiral Roger Girouard, who brings a wealth of experience and expertise to this task. He began his investigation a few weeks ago and intends to complete it and make his report public this fall.
[English]
As the committee can appreciate, I am not at liberty to get into the details surrounding the incident while the investigations are ongoing. Once the reports are completed and issued, we will be able to comment on the findings, results, and recommendations.
The government has committed to making public the findings of all the reports. As my minister, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, has indicated, Mr. Girouard's report will be shared first with the families of the deceased and then more broadly with Canadians.
My minister, the commissioner, and I have committed to ensuring that any recommendations stemming from Mr. Girouard's report are addressed expeditiously.
[Translation]
As regards the delivery of services in both official languages, I want to emphasize that my department, which includes the Canadian Coast Guard, is fully committed to the acts and obligations in this area. With more than 10,000 employees across the country, we are very much aware of the importance of delivering bilingual services in the designated areas.
[English]
Before turning to the language of service, I would ask General Dumais to speak to his responsibilities on the federal search and rescue program. Mr. Da Pont will then address how bilingual search and services are provided.
Mr. Chairman, members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, good morning.
I am Lt. General Marc Dumais and I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you this morning. In my opening statement, I wish to inform you on my responsibilities and why I am here.
First, to echo the comments of the Deputy Minister for Fisheries and Oceans, I would like to extend my sincere condolences, on behalf of myself and everyone in the Canadian Forces search and rescue organization, to the families, loved ones and friends of those who passed away in the tragedy of L’Acadien II.
[English]
My current appointment is the commander of Canada Command. As such, I have the responsibility for commanding all Canadian Forces operations that occur in Canada and in North America, with the exception of the NORAD aerospace defence mission. Hence, all Canadian Forces missions, whether in defence of Canada or providing military assistance in support to another federal or provincial authority, come under Canada Command.
I report directly to the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Hillier, and my headquarters are here in Ottawa. I have six regional commanders across our country as well as one commander in Winnipeg who provides air capability and who reports to me.
[Translation]
As you may know, the federal search and rescue program is led by the Minister of National Defence. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is responsible for delivering the maritime portion and this is done through the Canadian Coast Guard. As Commander of Canada Command, one of the missions for which I am responsible is providing the Canadian Forces Search and Rescue response across Canada.
With respect to the Search and Rescue role, three of the previously-mentioned commanders also have responsibilities for the three Canadian Forces search and rescue regions in Canada. They are the commander of the Joint Task Force Pacific region, responsible for the west coast, the commander of the air capability, again located in Winnipeg, who is responsible for the central part of the country, and the commander of Joint Task Force Atlantic region, who is responsible for the east coast.
So, to summarize the search and rescue chain of command related to today’s discussions, the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Halifax coordinates Canadian Forces and Canadian Coast Guard responses to search and rescue events on the east coast. This centre reports to the Commander Joint Task Force Atlantic, who reports to me, as Commander Canada Command.
While the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre comes under the military structure, it is a joint organization with both Coast Guard and Canadian Forces personnel working together. The Coast Guard personnel are managed through their own reporting chain, and responses to marine incidents are generally dealt with through the Canadian Coast Guard organization. The Joint Rescue Coordination Centre’s responsibility is to coordinate the best possible response to search and rescue situations between our two organizations.
[English]
Hence, for the search and rescue mission, my responsibility is the command and control of Canadian Forces search and rescue response. However, in the Canadian Forces other organizations are responsible for the training, education, career progression, and posting of the personnel who are in the search and rescue organizations. Hence, the individuals in the search and rescue system are managed by the environmental chiefs, primarily the chief of the air staff and the chief of the maritime staff. Also, the chief of military personnel, who has already appeared before you, is responsible for developing and maintaining the policy framework required to apply the Officials Languages Act within the Canadian Forces.
[Translation]
Of course, as the one responsible for the delivery of the search and rescue capability, I have a responsibility for ensuring this response is adequate. That is why I am here today. To respond to any concerns there may be with respect to the level of service in terms of the Official Languages Act provided by the Canadian Forces following the tragic events of L'Acadien II.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
If you will allow me, I would like to begin by stating for the record that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard are fully committed to the letter and spirit of the Official Languages Act and to implementing all requirements flowing from the Official Languages regulations and policies.
Like my colleagues, I would like to express my deepest sympathy to the families and friends of those involved in the capsizing of L’Acadien II. The issue has been raised on a broader scale about whether the Coast Guard delivers consistent bilingual search and rescue services. I would like to take a few moments to put this concern to rest.
It may be useful to begin by stating for the record that the Official Languages Regulations require the Coast Guard to deliver bilingual SAR services at offices or facilities where, over a year, there is at least a 5% demand from the public for services in English or French. The Regulations also state specifically that bilingual services be delivered in the Halifax SAR Region. I want to assure the Committee that we meet those requirements.
[English]
Mariners will most often use their radio to engage the search and rescue system. In a limited number of situations, they will also use automated signalling systems to communicate. However, for the majority of mariners who make a radio call, they will contact one of the coast guard's 22 maritime communications and traffic service centres. Nine of those centres offer bilingual services 24 hours a day, seven days a week. All positions in these nine centres are designated bilingual at the BBB level. One is located in Newfoundland, two in the maritime region, four in the Quebec region, and two in our central and Arctic region.
If a call is received at one of our non-bilingual MCTS centres, a conference link is established immediately with a bilingual centre. When one of our MCTS centres receives a call from a vessel, it maintains communication with the party on the other end while critical information is relayed immediately to the most appropriate joint rescue coordination centre, or JRCC, that General Dumais spoke about, or to one of the two marine rescue subcentres run by the coast guard.
All JRCCs are staffed, as General Dumais noted, jointly by DND and the coast guard, and offer services to the public in both official languages at all times. The two coast guard subcentres, one located in Quebec City and the other in St. John's, Newfoundland, also offer access to bilingual services at the B level.
Access means that where and when bilingual service is not available at a centre, and that would be the case in our St. John's centre, callers are immediately connected by conference call to the MRSC in Quebec, where French language services are available. While it is part of the standard operating procedure for the centres, I want to emphasize that this does occur very rarely. On average, our MCTS centres field about 950,000 calls a year. Generally, about 10 of those calls on average are relayed to the maritime rescue subcentre in Quebec.
Overall, we respond to some 8,000 marine search and rescue incidents a year. Of those, on average 3,000 lives in those incidents are at risk, and we save about 2,900, a success rate of about 97%.
Once a request for assistance has been received by a joint rescue coordination centre, a response is launched as quickly as possible. All available possibilities of assistance are used, including any vessels of opportunity. That could mean that commercial vessels, fishing vessels, or recreational vessels, whoever happens to be closest to the scene, will be tasked to respond and assist.
[Translation]
Our success as a service organization depends heavily on our developing and maintaining strong links with the community we serve – whether that community speaks French or English. This is very important to us, and why we are committed to fulfilling our obligations under the Official Languages Act.
I would now like to turn back to Ms. d'Auray to continue with her remarks.
:
Thank you, Mr. Da Pont.
As I indicated at the start of my presentation, we have noted that some issues were raised in the media in the days following the capsizing of L'Acadien II about the language of service provided to the mother of the missing sealer, Carl Aucoin.
As I indicated, we have brought the audio tape exchanges with Ms. Aucoin and we had planned to play them for you. The search for Mr. Aucoin was reduced on Saturday, March 29, which is to say that the active search effort was stopped. The divers had spent an enormous amount of time trying to find Mr. Aucoin's body and, after a fairly extended period of time, the search effort was reduced. It then became an operation directed by the local police force.
Before the search was actually reduced, the coordinator of the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Halifax asked the Sûreté du Québec to contact the family of the sealer to advise them of the change in posture. I want to emphasize that it is normal operating procedure to have local officials on the ground contact the families in these situations. The Sûreté du Québec later confirmed that they had unfortunately not made contact and apologized to the family members.
As a result, and most unfortunately, the mother of the missing sealer learned about the change in posture from media reports. She contacted the Coast Guard's Marine Communications and Traffic Services Centre in the Quebec region the next day, Sunday, March 30, to seek information. She was provided with the 1-800 number of the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Halifax, which she called the following morning. In this instance, the Canadian Forces Aeronautical Coordinator, who possesses an EBB level, answered the call. As you can hear, Ms. Aucoin wanted to know whether search efforts to find her son had been stopped and was informed that the RCMP was now responsible for the matter. She was also given a telephone number in order to reach the RCMP.
Later that same day, Mr. Aucoin's aunt contacted the Coast Guard Regional Operations Centre in Halifax for additional information about the search reduction. The Acting Director of Maritime Services, who is bilingual, returned that call and provided additional information. The next day, on Monday, he flew to the Magdalen Islands, where he remained for a period of time and became the prime contact for all further communication with family members.
You will therefore hear the exchange between Ms. Aucoin and her respondent. As we stated, we have obtained Ms. Aucoin's permission to play this recording to you. I would like to express my thanks to her for that. All that remains for us is to listen to the recording.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm willing to greet all three of you, but personally I think it was pointless to hear from the Deputy Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the National Defence official today in view of the fact that, in my motion, I asked that the Coast Guard people come and talk to us about the situation in French. I also understand, in connection with staying in the water, that a bit of an effort is being made to drag in a red herring. One thing is certain: without talking about the content of the conversation between Ms. Aucoin and the Fisheries and Oceans Canada people, I repeat that I'm extremely concerned to see that the Coast Guard people, even in an emergency, record the remarks of people who want responses without informing them that their remarks are being recorded. I think we should take a serious look at that.
I was there too, and I also experienced some difficult moments with the families when I went there, on behalf of our leader and of the official opposition, to share that ordeal in a dignified manner with the families and people of the Magdalen Islands. I arrived there the previous Friday, so I don't intend to talk to you just about L'Acadien II.
Incidentally, I think the investigation should be independent. When the Coast Guard investigates itself, even though it has retained someone from the outside, I don't call that an independent investigation, and I hope all possible light will be shed on this incident. The Liberal Party of Canada would like a truly independent investigation.
However, I am very concerned. We are presented with statistics, but I don't believe it's appropriate to do that when you're talking about rescues and individuals. If only one person died or only one stricken family was unable to obtain services in their own language, that would already be too many.
Mr. Da Pont, a number of fishermen and hunters tell me they are forced to establish contact with other colleagues, other fishermen, in order to get services in French. Can you assure me that everything related to calls is really bilingual? It seems that what you're telling me and what actually happens in the field are two separate things.
:
You asked two or three different questions.
The services offered at the Marine Communications and Traffic Services Centres are bilingual, at level B. I believe you're asking me whether that level is adequate in the case of search and rescue operations. We think it is because, in the context of those operations, few questions will be part of the communication. We've only received one complaint in the past five years concerning the services provided by the centres, and language problems have never been an issue.
Your other question concerns the family. I accept the fact that communication was not acceptable in this case. However, in a case such as this one, it is normally the police on the ground who handle communication regarding the most delicate matters. That's what we had planned, but unfortunately that's not what was done. There was a breakdown in the process, and I accept that.
:
A number of things come to my mind. First, those who are used to doing search and rescue are the people from National Defence and the Coast Guard. It isn't the Sûreté du Québec people who conduct searches at sea. As you will readily understand, if you delegate to another party the task of explaining to a family that the search has been abandoned, a series of questions will be raised. People will ask why it is being abandoned, what has been done, who long it has gone on, what measures have been taken and what new steps will be taken.
All the Sûreté du Québec person can tell the family is that the search has been abandoned—that's it, that's all—because that person won't know much more about it. Understand that I would also like you to be able to consider what it really means when you delegate. If you delegate a power, that's one thing, but if you simply delegate communication, should the information provided be full and complete? In this case, it definitely wasn't full and complete.
The family would have known sooner rather than learn about it in the media. I had the opportunity to speak with Ms. Aucoin a few minutes after the hearing we had earlier. She was angry, disappointed and distressed because the rescue had been called off. I'm telling you that because it's not easy simply to say that you're delegating communication and that the matter stops there. I think you have to go further than that.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, on behalf of the New Democratic Party and myself, I would like to offer my condolences to the families of the fishermen who perished on L'Acadien II. As the member for Acadie—Bathurst, in northeastern New Brunswick, I know that many fishermen go to sea every day. We've had the misfortune to lose a number of them. I can understand the situation of the families, particularly since we've just had a tragedy in Bathurst. Seven young people and a teacher lost their lives in January.
However, we must keep in mind why we are holding this meeting today, which is to study bilingualism within the Canadian Coast Guard. The questions concerning L'Acadien II have already been asked, and I would like us now to focus on bilingualism. This morning, you submitted an accurate retranscription of the conversation that took place between Mr. Aucoin's mother and the Coast Guard. Do you agree on that?
We asked you to appear in order to tell us about bilingualism within the Coast Guard. However, we read the following in the French version of the transcript:
Mother - Bonjour vous parlez français?
The document that you've submitted to us isn't in French; it's a translation of an English document. That simple fact shows a real lack of respect for the official languages. You dared appear before the Official Languages Committee with a document the French version of which does not even contain the word “mère” and in which the officer's title hasn't been translated. I would like you to take note of that.
Furthermore, Mr. Da Pont, you mentioned services provided where numbers warrant, and you mentioned a figure of 5%. I believe you said that numbers in St. John's, Newfoundland, didn't warrant such services and that people had to call from Quebec. Is that correct?
:
As the individual in question is a member of the Canadian Forces, I'll answer, Mr. Chairman.
Yes, she had to speak in English. I don't excuse that employee. He is an anglophone. He admitted so at the start of the conversation. He meets the language standards of the position and the duties. We're not trying to judge the quality of his French. Under the Official Languages Act, we must be able to communicate with people in the language of their choice.
The employee was dealing with an extremely delicate subject with a person who was really concerned by the tragedy. I believe he made a valiant effort to communicate the information and to explain that it was now the RCMP that was handling the matter. I admit he had some difficulty, but he ultimately managed to communicate with the woman in a relatively sympathetic manner and to give her an explanation.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. d'Auray and Mr. Da Pont.
Mr. Dumais, it goes without saying that we will reiterate our condolences to the people who have lived through this ordeal. There is no doubt that the hearing of the recording of Ms. Aucoin's discussion shows us, in events such as this, how fragile the opportunity to speak and be understood in one's language is. We can very well understand the situation in which these people must have found themselves.
At the funeral, our government was represented by the , Lawrence Cannon. I spoke with a number of people from the Magdalen Islands, and this event is still very present in their minds. I understand Mr. Blais very well when he tells us about the emotion he experienced, like everyone who was there. That's another reason for us to make sure that, in our country where the two official languages should be respected everywhere, they are respected at serious events such as this.
I would like to go back to the delegation to Sûreté du Québec. First, from whom did the mandate to Sûreté du Québec to make the announcement come? Did it come from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police? We know that, between police departments... Was it done in writing? Has any corrective action been taken since then? We realized that there was a problem, and I understand that that kind of mandate isn't assigned every day, but Ms. d'Auray spoke to us earlier about the observation that was made. Have corrective measures been taken?
:
As the deputy minister indicated, there's nothing unusual in that for this kind of tragedy, but normally in such cases—I'm talking about the aerial aspect and about the National Search and Rescue Secretariat—we work in close cooperation and communication with the families involved, whether it be in the case of an air crash or another problem of that kind.
In this case, I don't know exactly who decided to delegate the communication to Sûreté du Québec, but it's a more or less normal procedure since the distance was enormous. In addition, this involved a marine situation. We have to delegate the power to communicate on our behalf to a professional organization, such as the local police force.
I don't want to speak for the Coast Guard, but at one point shortly after the incident, it delegated an individual to liaise directly with the family to avoid communication problems. Each case is different, but I assure you that, in every situation, people do their best to be sensitive to an extremely emotional and difficult situation for all participants and all those who are directly affected. It's somewhat sad that the communication was not made as soon as possible, but, prior to that, we had used those people to communicate with families. There was simply an unexpected breakdown, and the people have apologized. It's unfortunate, but that is what happened.
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Earlier Mr. Blais said it couldn't be done in a strictly platonic way by means of an announcement. There obviously has to be a discussion in advance. We need to know the context in order to explain the reasons. I don't know whether corrective action was taken, but it will clearly have to be done that way: it's too important.
You told us about the Joint Rescue Centre, and there are Canadian Forces people on the committee. We summoned the Canadian Coast Guard people, but we see that we had to hear other witnesses as well.
I'd like you to explain to me how the centre works. The call was received by a Canadian Forces person. However, I thought that was more the role of the Coast Guard people. How does that kind of centre, in which partners are involved, operate?
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for being with us this morning. I'm going to put my questions specifically to two persons, Mr. Dumais and Mr. Da Pont.
Mr. Dumais, with all due respect, the next time you submit documents to the Standing Committee on Official Languages, you should make sure they are presentable. The problem is not simply that they are incomprehensible; they are full of mistakes. With a level of language of this kind, a school student would fail grade 6. We're talking about the federal government, and you are here in the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This document that you have submitted to us is shameful. I hope that, next time, the message will finally get through. I may not be good in French, but this document is very poor.
It was said that the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre met the needs. They're dealing with francophones, but, in the west, I'm not convinced the percentage of francophones and unilingual francophones is that high.
Mr. Da Pont, you said that it met the needs.
Mr. Dumais, you say that it meets the needs of the office, but tell me, you who are a francophone, without going into details, whether you managed to make some sense of this exchange. Despite all the good will that your officer was able to show, were you able to understand the slightest comment that could help that person, who was relatively calm, despite the extremely difficult situation? Did you understand anything?
:
I hope you didn't understand the text as such because it's full of errors of French. I can't read the text. It nevertheless concerns the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre. During a rescue operation, the people aren't underground; they're at sea, and people try to find ways to help them, not only those who have disappeared, but also their families.
Take the example of the 911 system. People will try to assist the person until help arrives, knowing that the person may be in distress, in crisis, but that's not what was done in this case. They tried to get rid of the people. From what I heard, that's what the people felt.
Once again, you'll tell me that errors occurred. At one point, do people realize on their own that they aren't able to provide adequate assistance to those who are in distress and to their families, or to tell them that they're handling the situation, that they will find the person? All they do is give them a telephone number. Even though they are in distress, they tell these people to dial a telephone number and hope they will be served and get some answers. In these kinds of situations, the Government of Canada, the Coast Guard and National Defence are unable to assist people from start to finish.
Let's suppose that the call to your centre came from a person in great distress. This is the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre. How would the communication have taken place? Would it have resembled this one?
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, I take responsibility for the documents in question. They come from my office.
Second, with respect to the coordination centres and bilingualism needs, it must be clearly understood that these are rescue centres. Their primary responsibility is to save lives. That's their mission. Of course, under the Official Languages Act, services must be provided in both official languages.
As Mr. Da Pont indicated, to our knowledge, there have been no cases in which an inability to communicate in the first language had a negative impact on the outcome of the mission.
:
I'm going to read you what's written in the May 27 issue of
L'Acadie Nouvelle:
He also wants to know whether the act that requires the Coast Guard to offer search and rescue services in both official languages at all times was complied with.
You see that we've turned around this question from the outset. Following these events, you no doubt searched your conscience to see what had happened.
I'm speaking to Mr. Dumais or Mr. Da Pont. Perhaps Mr. Da Pont can give me a better answer. It's not that I don't want Mr. Dumais to answer me. You have to prepare for distress cases. Do you consider bilingualism adequate in these cases? I say “adequate” from a rescue and distress perspective. It may be adequate to determine whether a boat is coming, but we don't care about that; that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about distress and rescue cases.
How do you see that, Mr. Da Pont?
:
Thank you for the question.
My view is that so far it has proven to be adequate. The basis I would put that on is as I indicated, and as General Dumais indicated: to the best of our knowledge, we've never had a situation, a search and rescue case itself, where linguistic issues were seen as contributing in any fashion to the case. So from the perspective of the actual search and rescue operation, no.
I would also say that as with any other organization, the level of our service is reviewed and audited from time to time on a regular basis to determine whether the level in which the service is being provided is adequate. Generally, that has been sustained in the reviews in the past.
:
Now I'm going to ask Mr. Dumais a slightly more specific question.
You are responsible for the offices there, what's called the joint centre. The Collège militaire royal de Saint-Jean was reopened so that there can now be a lot more francophones, so they can work in French and also have access to the positions you have today.
Have you yourself detected any weaknesses? Now is the time to tell the committee. From a rescue and distress perspective, have you seen anything in the language area? Are you considering any improvements that, based on your experience, could be made? Naturally, one can always say that there is a personnel shortage, that it isn't paid well enough and that there isn't enough vacation, but have you sensed any weaknesses? All that must have made you search your conscience. Did a connection fail? We know a connection failed at Sûreté du Québec, but we won't talk about that. Quebec will handle its own problems. But I want to know whether there was a problem.
I indicated that I really deeply regret the way that Madame Aucoin heard the news. That should not have happened. I accept fully that this is not the way anyone should hear that type of news. I would never pretend that this was the case.
When I indicated that I was confident that the level met the requirements, I was talking about the actual search and rescue case itself, the actual operation. Here, obviously, we're talking about communication after the event. As we indicated, it was very regrettable. We have already explained how that happened. Obviously, when Madame Aucoin called the joint rescue coordination centre, they were unaware, in taking the call, that communications with the Sûreté had not in fact taken place.
So there were a number of factors, and obviously the individual dealing with the call didn't have that information at their fingertips.
Earlier, Mr. Dumais, you said that you thought the conservation was quite good and that Ms. Aucoin had been required to switch from French to English because she felt she wasn't understood. You can't say there isn't a problem. You're talking to a person who is experiencing emotion. Imagine if that person hadn't understood English. How would he have understood broken French? The lady understood English since she conducted part of the conversation in English.
Will you admit that there is a problem with regard to official languages? It has always been recognized. It's now recognized at the Department of National Defence. At the Coast Guard, they have a problem. Do you admit there is a problem, particularly since some courses are only given in one language?
:
Mr. Da Pont, when people are in a situation of stress, have you noticed that they return to their mother tongue? You speak good French, but you've spoken mainly in English. You speak both languages, and that's entirely to your credit.
I put myself in the shoes of the families and especially of the fishermen. Let's get this clear: it's not just the matter of L'Acadien II that's at issue here. I wonder why they stopped the search and abandoned L'Acadien II. I'd also like to know why they stopped diving, when the diver wanted to continue. Ms. d'Auray talked about the divers; we could talk about them a little more, but I promised that we would discuss the official languages component.
Some fishermen say they have to link up at sea with the third, fourth and fifth boats. They can't speak English. It's not a sin; Canada has two official languages. You are a federal institution and you have to offer services in both languages. The question doesn't just concern the operations centre. Unfortunately for us, every time we receive a report from the Commissioner of Official Languages, the worst two departments in that respect are Fisheries and Oceans Canada and National Defence. Ms. d'Auray is more sensitive to the francophone issue. I know her; she will definitely be working on that.
You can't tell me that all the Coast Guard operators covering all shifts are bilingual. The fishermen definitely won't go and see you because they have to work with you every day. I understand them. Our work as members is also to ask questions in order to help in helping them. Don't try to make me believe that all the operators are bilingual, Mr. Da Pont. That's more than a story. We have too many examples showing the contrary.
What are you going to do, apart from calling Quebec City? When I am at sea in the Halifax or Cape Breton regions and I ask someone from Quebec City a question, that person doesn't know what's happening there. The staff in Quebec City isn't as concerned and doesn't have the same information to answer my question.
What are you going to do to change the situation and put on a more human face? I'm also very concerned about the transcript of the conversation. I understand why Ms. Aucoin was devastated.
How are we going to ensure that, instead of calling Quebec City, staff... We can't simply say that Quebec is French and the rest of Canada is English. What are we going to do to make you really comply with the Official Languages Act?
I find what we heard this morning horrible. This tragedy had already occurred many hours before Ms. Aucoin communicated with the Canadian authorities responsible.
We can't even talk about your qualifications, but the French that was used with Ms. Aucoin was of poor quality; it was mumbling. In a crisis, please show some empathy; step out of your role as commissioner. You're a father, let's suppose your son or daughter was in a state of stress. You would like people to be able to answer you coherently when you are in a state of profound sadness.
It's not a B level that's required, but rather a C level, so that the people on the front line can respond adequately.
You also have to consider assistance and support. The idea isn't simply to say that the information has been transmitted and then move on to the next call. You also have to offer people assistance and support, have the information to hand, so that you don't leave them waiting. That makes no sense.
I was a teacher. When a student had been forgotten, when he wasn't put on the bus, you can be sure that the information given to the parents was quite a bit more concise and that numerous efforts were made to reassure them. In this case, we're talking about the probable death of a person, about searches, and so on. The French is of poor quality. A C level has to be required.
If I'm not mistaken, you said in the Public Accounts Committee that 22 centres were bilingual. However, I've now learned that nine are. They have to be able to respond to all citizens across the land in both official languages. I hope that's clear. I won't even ask you for your opinion on that. I suggest you go and see your officers responsible. We will do our job and ensure that the quality of service in these kinds of situations is improved. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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I would just like to make two points, if I could.
I've apologized for and I regret, as I've said on a number of occasions, the way the communications were handled with Madame Aucoin. I would not disagree with the points you made. That is why, once we became cognizant of that, we sent someone to ÎIes-de-la-Madeleine to become the primary point of contact to provide, in a compassionate and sensitive fashion, all of the information that you have indicated.
I agree completely with you that's what people deserve, and I regret very much the way this particular incident unfolded in that situation.