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We'll bring the meeting to order.
We have our witnesses before us. We're continuing our study on the economic security of women. We have Beverley Smith, who is appearing as an individual; Monica Lysack and Emily King, representing the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada; and Michelle Harris-Genge, Women's Network of Prince Edward Island.
I guess it's been communicated to you that as a group, so if you're a partnership of two, you have 10 minutes to present—and we are watch watchers, because we have to watch time. Once the 10 minutes are up, the bell will ring on its own, so please look at me; I'll be waving my hands away. Then there'll be an opportunity, after all presentations have been made, for the committee members to ask you questions. So whatever you haven't covered, you probably will be able to cover during Q and A, and at the end I'll give you one minute to wrap up.
We have votes at 5:30. Are the bells going to ring at 5:30, committee members, or is it votes at 5:30? Okay, the bells will ring at 5:15, so we will have to stop the moment the bells ring. We will be disappearing. We'll close the meeting.
Ms. Smith, would you like to go first for 10 minutes? I can ask Emily to go first. What would you like, Ms. Smith? Would you like somebody else to start?
[Translation]
Thank you for inviting me here. I'm going to talk about women whose work is unpaid or lowly paid.
[English]
My focus is on women's unpaid and lowly paid work.
When governments survey the economic situation of women, they discover that women have less income than men through most of their adult lives and in retirement are much more likely to be in poverty than are men.
You have asked how we can assure the economic security of women, security being not just the current income level but a regular flow of money over the course of a life. The common response of economists of the past has been to help women earn more today through pay equity and affirmative action, so that they can get the jobs that have higher pay. Many of these moves have been very successful, and discrimination in hiring or promotion based on gender alone is now a contravention of human rights.
The second response has been to move women out of a mode of vulnerability, principally by getting them to not depend on some other source of income or on another earner who may be unreliable. This continues to be the argument some women's groups make today. Law professor Kathleen Lahey of Queen’s University has said, for instance, that all women, for economic security, should work outside the home. The rationale is, as above, for their own good—so they have financial independence and economic security.
Governments responded, and slowly funding for the at-home role of women was eroded, along with a concept of any family wage, with the removal of the child dependent deduction and the family allowance. Slowly incentives were put in place to reward women who did find paid work outside the home, including not only a salary of their own, but also dental and health care, pension benefits, sick leave, and holiday pay, none of which women could get on their own if they were not in paid employment. We have made great progress and are halfway there.
Pay equity is nearly achieved for many women. What we have not done is recognize the care role. Since it's not possible to be in two places at once, however well you dance backwards in high heels, women were conflicted, and it was not gender that was the reason for their dilemma; it was caregiving.
Caregiving has strong historic ties to gender. Legally we would say it's analogous to gender, since pregnancy, labour, and breastfeeding are female roles. When tax systems degrade caregiving, they are degrading women.
In early societies women tended the hearth, fed the young, made the meals, gardened, and tended the sick. Men went off to be hunter-gatherers. The two roles were mutually interdependent. Later, as money was given to some roles, what a coincidence, it was only given to the men. Even the word “work” was given only to men; it was used only to describe what men did. This shift was the first way that women's roles were degraded.
Seen in this light, the liberation of women to enter paid labour, to not depend on men, and to have financial independence is half a liberation. We must also insist that our care roles be valued.
Governments have sought advice from economists like Drs. Cleveland and Krashinsky, who argue that women are not contributing to society unless they earn money. As an activist for women's rights, I noticed the women's struggle for equality has recently taken a new direction in seeking solutions to this caregiving impasse. Those who argue for women to have tax breaks to work outside the home are doing a good thing, and they make a good case, but those who are doing the care role at home also make valid arguments. The common ground women have is the right to choose how to contribute to society, and the state's role should be to respect what we choose and to enable it.
If women get funding for care of a child independent of the presence of a male and regardless of his ability to earn income, they're no longer dependent on him to the point of vulnerability. If we really want child poverty to end, the most efficient means is to fund caregiving. Fund the child wherever the child is, unconditional of the marital status of the parent or the paid employment status of the parent. If we really want a creative 21st century solution to this caregiving impasse, we must value the care role and let funding flow to whoever is the caregiver. When women are assured this will happen, they will have economic security.
It is in how we treat single mothers that we see crystallized how government values the care role. When a woman takes care of a small child in the absence of a man or any income source, government treats this role with contempt.
That's what they think of single mothers. That is the biggest insult to caregiving.
Pension laws that promise to not count caregiving years into the formula—well, we won't count it against you then. You stayed home for a while with your kid. We won't count that against you. Those are condescending laws to women because they assume they're being generous. This is far from valuing the role for itself. Italy gives pensions for the homemaking years.
It is appropriate that pension splitting is now a reality for seniors. Their taxes will be reduced to recognize the value of the non-earner or the lower earner as part of a full partnership. We have not yet recognized the care role and the lower earner role, however, before retirement. We must.
We have created tax benefits for caregiving—as if we care about caregiving—specifically to exclude caregivers. We tie maternity benefits, parental leave, and palliative care leave to how much you earned. We value unpaid labour based on your paid labour. That's valuing you as an orange based on your qualifications as an apple. This has been a devaluing of the care role. We have let government assess our care role based on how much we earn, not providing care. We have tolerated what should not be tolerated.
Women must stand up for their equality rights, not just to enter paid work, which we all know we can do, but also to have our unpaid work valued. We can ask for national child care, but that's not going to solve this problem. That would still only value paid work. We have to value caregiving itself, whether it happens in a day care, with a nanny, at home, with dad, with mum, or with a home-based office.
Recently, the Supreme Court has recognized on divorce that the care role at home is a vital part of the economics of the household and the woman is entitled to half of the assets.
More women are creating their own businesses at home-based offices—telecommuting. This is the wave of the future. Women are not working outside the home from nine to five; they're creative. So let's notice that.
The care role of aging parents is now a dominant factor for women. Middle-aged women are caring for a lot of their parents, and they're becoming aware that this equal rights movement for women has to recognize this new care role too.
In 1995, at Beijing, Canada joined all other member UN nations to promise to value unpaid care. We didn't used to count it. We promised to count it. We are overdue to keep that promise.
Early women’s rights activists did not want women forced out of the home. The right to vote was for all women, homemakers or not. Nellie McClung defended bearing children as an important role of social benefit. The Royal Commission on the Status of Women in 1970 said women merit financial support for their caregiving.
Feminists of the third wave have been asking for more status for the care role for many years, so here are some quick suggestions of how to do that: one, this is the revolution—redefine work—and we have to stop letting people say work only exists if you're paid money for it; two, income splitting for those who would like to admit they are sharing income and this income is spreading over several people; three, pension benefits for the caregiving years; four, maternity benefits based on maternity; five, universal benefits for care of a child, wherever that care happens, flowing with the child; six, tax breaks for those who use day care and for those who do not; and seven, continued funding of activist groups such as Status of Women and any legal rights groups that promote all of the equality rights of women.
We have to be courageous as women. I'm not a male hater, I think men are wonderful, but we have let ourselves be sucked into the male ethic of traditional economics that only paid work matters. We have to challenge that unpaid work does too.
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Do you want me to start over? No? Okay.
When I had my daughter, I had a job that allowed me a comfortable income while I took my maternity leave. The year I had with my daughter was incredible. I was able to breastfeed without any worries, and I didn't have any overwhelming financial stresses to take away from the joy I experienced every single day with her. I was able to witness her first crawl, her first walk, her first bite of solid food, and her first word.
My encounter with the new extended leave was wonderful. I never had to get up early the next day for work or day care after a night with no sleep. I wasn't forced to forgo breastfeeding because I'd be away from my baby for extended periods, and I never felt stressed, fatigued, or anxious because I didn't know how to pay the bills that kept coming in, even though my paycheques were cut almost in half.
I also never realized that my experience was possibly the exception. I assumed that everyone had the same benefits, and I never really cared to look outside the box. A year off work with your new baby—how could anyone complain about that? I had a wonderful new caregiving experience with my new daughter.
For many people, when asked to conjure an image of caregiving, the image of a mother with her new baby comes to mind. For newborns, caregiving is of the ultimate necessity. Caregiving is a matter of survival. The maternity and parental benefits program was extended to one year so that our mothers and babies and fathers could have the best possible start in their new lives. It is a positive step for our future, but only for those who are able to use it. Unfortunately, there are many Canadian women who cannot access this valuable resource. Upon closer examination, the policy does not prove equitable for all women, especially those with non-standard work arrangements.
In early 2001, one of our board members at Women's Network had become pregnant, and everyone was excited that the new parental benefits legislation had just been extended and that she would have a year at home with her new baby. She was quick to point out that this wasn't true. She was a self-employed contract worker, so she would not qualify for benefits.
Interestingly, the board of Women's Network, as many Canadians, assumed at that time that if you had a baby you had a year off with pay, and didn't realize what the qualifiers for benefits were. So in reflecting on this woman's situation, the board quickly realized that many women would be in the same situation of not qualifying. Women's Network P.E.I. began research and consultation with Atlantic Canadian parents and equality-seeking women's organizations. We wanted to examine whether the maternity and parental benefits policy currently employed by HRSDC is equitable for all women.
Something we do as Canadians is assume. We assume that women have equal access to benefits, but in regard to benefits, men are more likely to be eligible for parental leave than women are. Although statistics show that mothers are far more likely to take leave from work to care for a new baby and in general to take on the role of primary caregiver to children, men are more likely to be eligible for parental leave.
We assume that mothers who are eligible have a full year of benefits. We hear that it is a year, but in reality, two weeks of this year is actually unpaid. Canada is one of the only countries that has a waiting period for maternity leave. We assume that all working women are eligible for benefits. Self-employed women cannot access maternity and parental benefits in Canada.
So who are the women excluded from receiving benefits? Women who have non-standard work arrangements are not eligible or can find it extremely difficult to be eligible for maternity and parental benefits. In 2003, at least 35% of new mothers were not eligible for maternity and parental leave.
Women's economic security is disadvantaged within the employment insurance program through the quantity of unpaid work they do in the family as caregivers. Maternity and parental benefits do not reflect the realities of the role of mothers within Canadian families, and as a result, mothers are less likely than others to qualify. With each child a woman has, her likelihood of receiving benefits decreases.
Finally, as I mentioned before, self-employed women are not eligible.
In 2001, approximately one in four women had not participated in the labour market in the 12 months preceding the birth of a child, which excluded them from eligibility for benefits. In some instances, EI-eligible mothers have become pregnant again while on leave, making it extremely challenging to get enough hours to qualify for EI and significantly reducing the likelihood that they'll be eligible for benefits following the birth of their next child.
Allowing a reach-back, similar to that allowed in the self-employment benefit program, would increase eligibility for EI benefits for those women who have had a break in their paid work. This could also be a mechanism that would include a portion of women who are currently self-employed.
Canada needs to support new parents by taking into account the changing realities of the labour market and by helping balance work and family obligations. Women-owned businesses are the fastest-growing part of the business sector in Canada, with women creating twice as many new businesses as men. The majority of these, at 59%, were between the ages of 20 and 45—child-bearing age. Under the current program, self-employed workers, with the exception of self-employed fishers, are not eligible for EI. This stipulation excludes them from accessing maternity and parental benefits.
One in three self-employed women return to work within two months after having a child, compared to 5% of paid workers. Canada is one of the only countries that has a two-week waiting period for maternity and parental benefits. The two weeks without pay before receiving just 55% of your regular income for the remainder of the year places a huge financial burden on many women. The logic behind this policy, which is the elimination of short weeks of paid unemployment, simply doesn't apply for maternity benefits. The two-week waiting period must be eliminated to improve the economic security of women.
Canada has one of the lowest wage replacement levels in both developed and developing countries, placing a hardship on women at both high- and low-income levels. Due to the wage gap between women and men, women will generally have an even lower wage replacement than men. The wage replacement rate must be raised from 55% to make these benefits a true option for many mothers.
Maternity and parental benefits are a vehicle for both economic security and caregiving capacity. Our research into maternity and parental benefits in other countries shows that there are many progressive policies that can serve as models for Canadian policy-makers. There are many countries that recognize that family life is essential for the well-being of children, and for that reason they have adopted explicit family policies. These policies generally focus on compensating for the economic costs of rearing children, giving people the economic resources to have children when they want to, redistributing income so as to ensure an adequate standard of living for all, and the reconciling of work and family life. The family policies of these countries are closely tied to workplace gender equity policies. Some emerged out of a concern for a low birth rate, and through our research we have found countries that have enhanced their maternity and parental benefits specifically to address declining fertility rates.
In closing, it is vital to Canada's future to work towards a caring society that takes into account the economic security of women. The two are not separate, and in doing so we will create a more equitable society for all. Thank you.
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Okay. We probably won't even take the full 10, though I've said that before.
Good afternoon. My name is Monica Lysack. I'm the executive director of the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada, and with me today is Emily King, an economist and policy analyst with the CCAAC.
It's our pleasure to be here today to speak on behalf of our organization and indeed the four million Canadians affiliated with the CCAAC. This year the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada celebrates 25 years of advocacy for quality universal child care. We're a non-profit, membership-based, and regionally representative organization dedicated to promoting quality publicly funded child care that is accessible to all. Our membership reaches more than four million Canadians, including parents, caregivers, researchers, and students, as well as women's anti-poverty, labour, social justice, disability, and rural organizations at the provincial, territorial, regional, and pan-Canadian levels.
We envision a Canada where families are supported in their very important role of parenting by community-based quality child care services that are publicly funded and are a natural and expected part of our neighbourhoods, available, accessible, and affordable for all those who choose to use them. A pan-Canadian publicly funded, universal, non-profit child care system is fundamental to the advancement of women's equality and has been a central demand of the Canadian women's movement since before the Royal Commission on the Status of Women 35 years ago.
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Women in Canada wear many hats. Often they are mothers, they are partners, and they are workers. Quality child care supports women in these multiple roles. It supports the 72% of women who are in the paid labour force, it supports women who are studying or doing job training, and it supports women who work in the home and want early learning and education opportunities for their children.
Quality child care is an essential component to women's ongoing economic security. First, it helps women to balance work and family.
There continues to be a gendered wage gap. Women earn only about 73% of what men earn. Part of that equation is the fact that women must take time off work for family responsibilities much more often than men.
Quality child care can help to address poverty for women and their children by improving opportunities for jobs and training. This is especially true for the more than 50% of female lone parents who are poor or those women and children who are economically trapped in abusive relationships, but quality child care strengthens the economic independence of all women.
Here in Canada we must ask ourselves how we value children, how we value mothering and traditional women's work, and how we value women's equality. Child care workers earn 45% less than other occupations, on average. This statistic is emblematic of the continued undervaluation of traditional women's work in Canada, such as child care.
Internationally speaking, this and other statistics on child care put Canada far behind the curve. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, Canada ranks last out of 14 countries in public spending on child care programs as a percentage of gross domestic product and last again in terms of access for three- to six-year-olds to quality child care programs, this time out of 20 countries.
Indeed, child care in most of Canada, outside of Quebec, is a patchwork of generally underfunded services that are neither affordable nor available to the majority of Canadians and typically pay low wages to the child care workforce. There are not enough spaces to meet the demand of families, fees are high, and quality is inconsistent at best.
Quebec is the exception to this observation, as its $7-per-day child care system provides 43% of Canada's regulated child care spaces, even though the province has only 23% of Canada's children under 13 years of age. Furthermore, since the 1997 introduction of its family policy, including universal child care services, Quebec has been the only province to show consistent declines in its child poverty rate.
Child care pays for itself over time, as demonstrated in Quebec, where research showed there was a 40% return on the investment of child care services in the first year.
Unfortunately, the cancellation of the agreements in principle on early learning and child care, the bilateral agreements, signalled an abandonment of a federal commitment to system building for child care in provinces and territories. These agreements have been replaced with $250 million in annual federal transfers to provinces and territories, with no clear spending guidelines. This translates to a $950 million reduction, almost 80%, from the commitment made by the previous federal government for 2007.
While the current federal government has instead implemented modest income supports for families, this action does not address the reality that in most of Canada quality child care services are either prohibitively expensive or simply cannot be found.
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Thank you, Madam Chair.
First, I'd like to thank you for being here today. Thanks as well for your presentations, which will no doubt further enlighten us .
I'd like to go back to the question of the employment insurance system. In my opinion, in its current state, it is a discriminatory system, particularly against women. Furthermore, the system is funded only by employees and employers, and the government doesn't pay a cent into it.
During this Parliament, I had the opportunity to introduce a bill designed to improve the employment insurance system. It is at the third reading stage, and it would be very desirable if it could receive the approval of all members in the House so that this system is improved and better suited to the needs and situation of workers today.
The whole thing depends on what the government wants. I'm from a region north of Montreal where a lot of women are at the mercy of seasonal work. It's often not by choice, or, if it is, there's only that kind of work that they can do.
I'm going to tell you about the amendments currently provided for in Bill , because, among other things, they are further to the recommendations appearing in your brief, Ms. Harris.
For example, we recommend that the qualifying period be reduced to 360 hours of work; that the benefit period, which is generally 45 weeks long, be increased to 50 weeks; that the weekly benefit rate be raised to 60%, which is one of your recommendations; that the two-week waiting period be repealed; that the distinction between individuals who are entering the labour force for the first time and those who are returning be eliminated; that maximum annual insurable earnings be increased; that the benefit be calculated on the basis of the average of the 12 highest paid weeks worked during the year; and, lastly, that self-employed workers be able to access the employment insurance system on a voluntary basis.
I'd like to hear what you have to say on the importance of passing this bill during this Parliament. In my opinion, that would be consistent with the expectations and situations of women, youths and also men.
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I just want to respond.
Yes, of course, I think all of us would recognize that parents always are the first and primary caregivers for their children. No one questions that, no one doubts that, and certainly when my children are in school during the day, I'm still their primary caregiver. As we share care for other responsibilities, in some cases I might care for a family member or parent, but I might not always be able to do that. So of course there is a community approach to that, and we've organized ourselves as a society to be able to do that.
But what I think is really important to acknowledge here is that there needs to be choice. In order for that choice to be available, certainly from the child care perspective, we have to make sure that the services are available for people to access. That means having a system, and right now we don't have a system. We have a patchwork of things that people can put together, but there is really not a system like there is in Quebec that families can access.
If I were to make an analogy, it might be a bit like saying to university students, post-secondary students, “Here's $10,000 a year; organize yourselves and see if you can find somebody who knows something about health sciences and maybe you could have the lady down the block coordinate that.” We don't do that.
When we talk about institutions, institutions aren't bad things. They're things that we've organized to help us support our work as citizens.
Anyway, I'll stop there.
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Okay. I guess I'm taking the remainder of her time.
First of all, I'd just like to thank each of you for your presentations. I think they've been very good today, and I think we've heard some excellent suggestions. It's great to hear the suggestions and not just the problems reiterated, so I thank each of you for that.
I just want to share a little bit of information with you before I ask you the first question.
We talk about child care and the federal involvement, and I think, Monica and Emily, you particularly addressed it and categorized it as the federal abandonment of child care.
My municipality was one of the pilot projects for rural child care under the Best Start program in Ontario, a very, very successful program. I took the time to speak with the director of that program for two counties, and he's just so pleased with it, so very pleased.
I was concerned that there would be a stop in that pilot project and that things would not be continuing as they were. They took the initiative to deal with the province, knowing that there was still federal money coming to the provinces, and they've been very successful. That project has continued on the way it was planned initially.
He also went on to say that with the money in the 2007 federal budget, they don't feel that there will be any problem implementing the entire program.
So I just want you to know that, that everything isn't doom and gloom. Some people have managed to make things work. They've made partnerships and they've carried on.
Thank you all for coming today, and thank you for the very substantial briefs you've brought forward.
I have a number of questions. I'll put them out, and if I have more time, I'll ask others.
Ms. Smith, I want to follow up with you— raised it—on the pension benefits for caregivers that you identified. You referenced Italy, and you have some knowledge of it.
Have you looked at the Canadian system that is currently in place—our CPP? Is there a way that caregivers could benefit from the CPP through voluntary contributions, if one has the capacity to make that? Have you looked at that as an option? Have you looked at any other options through the tax system whereby caregivers could benefit? I'd be interested in your comments.
Ms. Harris-Genge, I'm interested in your comments, particularly on the importance of self-employed workers. You may be aware that this committee began a study of self-employed workers and how to provide benefits for them. It's not as straightforward as we thought it would be. It doesn't appear that EI is the way, but rather setting up a separate structure for it. I'm curious to know if you've done any more work on that and if you have any thoughts on what that structure should look like for self-employed women. I know my own daughters have dealt with that issue and it's a challenge.
I'm also interested in this issue of flexibility that you're promoting. While I support it in principle, I'm wondering how it's funded and if you've given some thought to that. I'll stop there and come back if I have time.
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Thank you, Madam Chair, and again thanks to each of the presenters this afternoon.
I want to go to Ms. Smith, if I could, please.
In the brief you gave us, you say that in 1995 at Beijing we joined all the other member UN nations and promised to start to tally in the value of the unpaid care roles, and so on. Then you talk about Nellie McClung in 1915. I think it drives home the fact that we've talked about this, and for years we've indicated that we were going to move and we just haven't done it. We just haven't been able to get there.
I'm really hopeful that something is going to come out of this committee this time. I think we've all researched it. My colleague talks about different groups that came together and talked about entrepreneurial women and so on. I think that's great. There should be lots of data that we can draw on, and hopefully we can come to some conclusions. Again, I really thank you for the results you've given us and the possible solutions. I think there's some great information here.
You go on to say that feminists for over 10 years have been asking for more status for the care role and how vital it is that we extend our recognition of choice and dignity to caregiving. I couldn't agree more. I think that's very important. You also say there is no such thing as a non-working mother, and all of us as women know that as well. I was fortunate enough to be able to stay home and raise my child and not have to go out to child care—not that I don't think child care is good, but that was my choice, and I think it's very important that parents have the ability to have that choice.
I would like to go down to number 7, where you talk about tax breaks for those who use day care and for those who do not use day care. I think that is something we've been overlooking. We've talked about the day care end of it, but we've not talked a whole lot about those who would prefer to provide the service themselves. As we look around this room, we can see that there is a wide divergence in thought on that. Some of us would prefer to provide the service ourselves if we can; some would prefer not to; and let's be honest, there are some who probably would be better to go outside for child care, if we want to be very honest about the situation.
You talk about funding day care spaces from the top down for creation, infrastructure, and so on, and how we have to not fight against day care, but fund both day care and non-day care equally. How would you envision that would be done? You talked a bit about tax breaks and funding per child. Could you elaborate more on the process that we could look at to do this?
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Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I have a couple of questions. I had hoped to ask everyone a question, but I'm not being very good about that.
Ms. Smith, you talk in your brief about income splitting, and you said you did some work on income splitting and also on pension splitting. I'm concerned about that inasmuch as it says in the brief that this will not be a windfall for the rich.
I've been doing some background reading. One of the concerns comes from information or research done by the Canadian Labour Congress. They took a look at exactly how many single-income earners there were. Apparently, 2.8 million Canadians live in single-earner families. They are the ones most likely to gain from income splitting. However, of that 2.8 million, most have a family income of about $36,000 or less. They would only save about $200 through income splitting—a $200 difference between that and the spousal tax credit—whereas a single-earner family with an income of $230,000 would retain an extra $9,000.
Similarly, we had a group that came in and talked about pension splitting, and they actually gave us a chart. I have the chart here. It showed that a couple making about $21,000 a year would get no benefit from pension splitting and a couple making $121,000 a year would benefit by just under $9,000.
That concerns me inasmuch as it would cost the federal government about $5 billion a year to have income splitting. That's the calculation that's been done. My concern is that it would reduce the amount of federal dollars available to provide the kinds of services that benefit all Canadians.
So I wondered about this disparity and why you think income splitting is a positive thing, when there is this contradiction.
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Thanks for your question.
There are many ways to do income splitting. In the United States they have tax brackets, so the wealthy do pay more than the poor. That helps address some of that concern you have about a windfall for the rich. The other suggestion has been to put a cap on it, so it would not be available for people above a certain income or for households above a certain income, I suppose. The other is that you make it voluntary. I suppose that might help a little bit.
It's seems to me that maybe there's a misperception that income splitting is for the single-income family. Income splitting is for all families, most of which are dual-income. If you earn only a little bit of money and someone else you are living with earns a lot more money, you're actually probably living at the same living standard because you share the same home. So it's ridiculous to not treat you as if you are partners. Currently, the tax law treats you as an earner and a useless dependant, if you have no income, or an earner and a lot less worthy person. The psychological message of income splitting is that you're equal, you're sharing, you're partners. You're not dependent on each other, you're interdependent. So it's a big, powerful message of women's equality. That's one point.
I think, too, when you look at it as what it would cost the government, that's a very financial way of looking at something that is basically, as Ms. Lysack points out, an investment. If you are able to recognize caregiving—and that's one way to do it—you're saving billions of dollars in the health care system. You're keeping some of the handicapped in their own homes and able to get loving care and keeping children, teenagers, for example, off the streets and maybe reducing your criminal justice costs.
So to look at it as only a cost is not the whole picture, I think.
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Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses this afternoon for your presentations.
I guess I have one comment on what I observed generally through most of your presentations. And I take no exception at all to what I think are some very valid points around how especially caregivers and those who are taking on important responsibilities in the home could be better compensated, to come at this question of equality from the standpoint of incomes, and as you know, we're looking at it specifically from the question of economic security.
Through the course of all of your presentations I was struck with the notion, though, that at the end of the day—for example, Ms. Smith's eight-point plan, as I look through that—the fiscal cost, the fiscal weight, of those proposals would be significant. It left me with the question as to how one would come at footing the bill.
Again, I'm not talking philosophically. I'm not opposed to what you're trying to drive at, but we're in a country where we've got to strike a balance between what's borne on the public purse, if you will, whether it's provincial or federal—in this case it's a bit of a split—and at a time when the country is faced with a whole set of priorities, not the least of which is dealing with a reduction in greenhouse gases and a whole host of public policy initiatives.
How do we come at this question of how we pay for it? We're talking about billions of dollars here, potentially $15 billion to $30 billion per year. Income taxes in Canada at the federal level are around $75 billion a year, so we're talking about substantial increases in taxes or we're talking about axing other programs. I wonder if you could—and perhaps each of the three witnesses here—give us a comment on how you would expect the public purse to pay for this ultimately, or is there a model you've looked at that would actually make this fiscally possible?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
A lot of things have been said today, and some really good stuff. From my perspective, we're talking about women's economic security. So we're talking about how we make women secure financially, in their early years, during their work years, and when they retire. So we're looking at a national caregiver program to acknowledge the unpaid work at home, whether it's looking after a family member who is ill, or a child, as we're trying to do through parental leave and professional care. Neither are very effective; they're not working very well.
For professional care, we don't have dropout for CPP, so the pension buildup is gone. The jobs...women are in and out of the workforce, and I don't have to give you all the scenarios that affect the income security situation of women and ultimately their retirement income.
I want to look at what we've been talking about. I call it early education and child care. The Best Start program, which Madam Davidson referred to earlier, was established by the Government of Ontario. It was part of the $5 billion national child care program, which Ontario chose to call the Best Start program, but a lot of it was being negotiated and was going to be delivered through elementary schools, being flexible with rural communities that chose some different delivery mechanisms, because of course the province had done a great deal of consultation.
My questions to Ms. Harris or Monica or Emily.... To my way of thinking, Canada's best assets are its people, and then you work from there. To give every single child the best possible start from the moment they're born.... Tell me, is the universal early education and child care program the best way to go, as we have it in elementary schools? We have universally accessible elementary education across the country. Some choose to go to private schools, but they have money. But every child gets to go to elementary school. We didn't say you get to have a $100 voucher; we said this is fundamentally important to our society.
It seems to me that would be the same approach in early education and early development. I just need to clarify. Am I on the wrong track here?
:
Thank you so much. I want to thank everyone for coming and for some very insightful comments.
Ms. Smith, I'm really interested in what you have to say, to come here to this committee as an individual, with no vested interest in anything except the caregiving and the well-being of children and caregivers.
I was very interested in what you said about valuing caregiving. I know in our family my sister stayed home with the children all the time. I sent my children to day care, and yet the work my sister did was totally, in my view, undervalued in many ways. She was a great mom, she did lots of things, but there was nothing out there for her.
Also, on what you're saying about the income splitting and the benefits of equality for women in terms of someone who's a very low-income earner as opposed to another one who's a very high-income earner, there's equality there, because often it's the woman who's the low-income earner, and the sense of dignity and the sense of investment and partnership.
Could you expand a little more? I could have listened to you all day, I really could have, because I thought you hit on some really important things that I've heard all across this country.
Could you comment? I don't want to take your time. I'll just leave it up to you generally.