ETHI Committee Meeting

The Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics met at 9:02 a.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chair, Tom Wappel, presiding.

The Chair presented the Fourth Report from the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure which read as follows:

FOURTH REPORT

Your Subcommittee met on Monday, May 14, 2007 to consider future business of the Committee. It was the consensus of Members present, but not unanimous:

— That, the Committee begin its study of the Department of Foreign Affairs internal report "Afghanistan 2006: Good Governance, Democratic Development and Human Rights" in relation to Access to Information requests for the document by inviting the following people to appear at its Thursday, May 17, 2007 meeting - Jeff Esau, Professor Amir Attaran and Jocelyne Sabourin, Department of Foreign Affairs, and further, that the Clerk of the Committee request from the Department of Foreign Affairs, a copy of the censored version of the report.

The Chair ruled that the meeting remain in public session.

The ruling of the Chair was sustained by the following recorded division: YEAS: Sukh Dahliwal, Carole Lavallée, Glen Douglas Pearson, Jim Peterson, Pat Martin, Robert Vincent — 6; NAYS: Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kestern, Mike Wallace — 5

Pat Martin moved, — That the report of the Subcommittee be concurred in.

Debate arose thereon.

Scott Reid moved, — That the motion be amended by inserting, after the words “appear at”: “In the following order: The Information Commissioner and such other witnesses as are necessary to establish which sections of the Access to Information Act may have been violated; Jeff Esau and Paul Koring of the Globe and Mail; Professor Amir Attaran; Jocelyne Sabourin, Department of Foreign Affairs, and such other witnesses as the Committee, acting as a whole and in camera, decides to call”.

Debate arose thereon.

Bruce Stanton moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding the name of Rob Walsh, Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel.

The question was put on the subamendment of Bruce Stanton and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren, Mike Wallace — 5; NAYS: Sukh Dhaliwal, Carole Lavallée, Pat Martin, Glen Douglas Pearson, Jim Peterson, Robert Vincent — 6.

Debate on the amendment resumed.

The question: "That the meeting continue" was put and was agreed to on the following recorded division: YEAS: Sukh Dhaliwal, Carole Lavallée, Pat Martin, Glen Douglas Pearson, Jim Peterson, Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren, Robert Vincent, Mike Wallace — 11; NAYS: — 0.

At 11:02 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:21 a.m., the sitting resumed in Room 253-D, Centre Block.

Debate resumed on the amendment.

By unanimous consent — It was agreed that Rob Walsh be invited to appear.

David Tilson moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding after the words "may have been violated" the following "such witnesses as are necessary to guide and ensure that the Committee does not violate the Security of Information Act or the Access to Information Act".

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of David Tilson and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

The decision of the Chair to recognize Scott Reid in debate was challenged.

The question: "The decision of the Chair to recognize Scott Reid in debate was challenged" was put and was agreed to on the following recorded division: YEAS: Sukh Dhaliwal, Pat Martin, Glen Douglas Pearson, Jim Peterson, Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren, Mike Wallace — 9; NAYS: Carole Lavallée, Robert Vincent — 2.

Bruce Stanton moved, — That the amendment be amended by changing the order of the witnesses in the following order: One - Jeff Esau and Paul Koring of the Globe and Mail; Two - Prof. Amir Attaran; Three - Information Commissioner and other such witnesses; Four - Jocelyne Sabourin; and Five - such other witnesses.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Bruce Stanton and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Bruce Stanton, Dave Van Kesteren, Mike Wallace — 3; NAYS: Sukh Dhaliwal, Pat Martin, Christian Ouellet, Glen Douglas Pearson, Jim Peterson, Scott Reid, David Tilson, Robert Vincent — 8.

Mike Wallace moved, — That the amendment be amended by changing the order of witnesses to hear Jeff Esau first, Prof. Amir Attaran at the next meeting, and then carry on with the last list as it was put in the Scott Reid amendment.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Mike Wallace and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 5; NAYS: 6.

Debate resumed on the amendment.

The question was put on the amendment and the result of the vote was announced: YEAS: Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren, Mike Wallace — 5; NAYS: Carole Lavallée, Pat Martin, Christian Ouellet, Glen Douglas Pearson, Alan Tonks — 5.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the negative.

Accordingly, the amendment was negatived.

The Committee resumed consideration of the motion of Pat Martin, — That the report of the Subcommittee be concurred in.

Dave Van Kesteren moved, — That the Report be amended by adding "and that witness' evidence be taken in camera and that the evidence would remain confidential until the censored version of the report is made available to Committee members and the Committee has had an opportunity to examine it".

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Dave Van Kesteren and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren — 4; NAYS: Carole Lavallée, Pat Martin, Christian Ouellet, Glen Douglas Pearson, Alan Tonks, Bryon Wilfert — 6.

The Committee resumed consideration of the motion of Pat Martin, — That the report of the Subcommittee be concurred in.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division: YEAS: Carole Lavallée, Pat Martin, Christian Ouellet, Glen Douglas Pearson, Alan Tonks, Bryon Wilfert — 6; NAYS: Scott Reid, Bruce Stanton, David Tilson, Dave Van Kesteren — 4.

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

At 4:08 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 4:13 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Questioning of the witnesses resumed.

At 4:56 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.