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PACC Committee Meeting

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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
 
Meeting No. 5
 
Tuesday, February 24, 2004
 

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts met in a televised session at 11:06 a.m. this day, in Room 253-D Centre Block, the Chair, John Williams, presiding.

 

Members of the Committee present: Maurizio Bevilacqua, Odina Desrochers, Paul Forseth, Marlene Jennings, Joe Jordan, Walt Lastewka, Dominic LeBlanc, Shawn Murphy, Beth Phinney, Alan Tonks, Judy Wasylycia-Leis and John Williams.

 

Acting Members present: Joe Comartin for Judy Wasylycia-Leis, Gerald Keddy for Val Meredith, Jason Kenney for Peter Goldring, Dennis Mills for Steve Mahoney, Pauline Picard for Roger Gaudet and Vic Toews for Philip Mayfield.

 

In attendance: Library of Parliament: Jean Dupuis, Analyst; Brian O'Neal, Analyst. House of Commons: Jeremy LeBlanc, Committee Clerk.

 

Witnesses: Department of Public Works and Government Services: I. David Marshall, Deputy Minister; Yvette Aloisi, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Human Resources and Communications Branch; Guy Bédard, Assistant Executive Director, Public Programs and Services Branch at Communication Canada; George Butts, Director General, Acquisition Program Integrity Secretariat Sector. Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: Jim Judd, Secretary of the Treasury Board and Comptroller General of Canada.

 
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g), the Committee resumed consideration of Chapter 3, the Sponsorship Program, Chapter 4, Advertising Activities and Chapter 5, Management of Public Opinion Research of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General of Canada referred to the Committee on February 10, 2004.
 

The Chair tabled letters received from the President of Canada Post and the Auditor General of Canada and a letter dated February 24, 2004 and documents received from the Clerk of the Privy Council and Secretary to the Cabinet.

 

ORDERED, — That the documents received from the Privy Council and distributed to the members of the Committee today remain confidential until the beginning of the meeting on Thursday, February 26, 2004 and that a copy of the documents be given to the Press Gallery under embargo until the start of the Thursday meeting.

 
The Committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to Committee business.
 

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of a draft report on Whistleblowing.

 

It was agreed, — That the draft report be adopted.

 

ORDERED, — That the Chair present the report to the House.

 

Dennis Mills moved, — That this Committee invite the Ministers and Deputy Ministers of Public Works and Treasury Board, for the period covering the sponsorship program, to appear as a panel to discuss their Ministerial responsibilities; and

- That, on February 26, 2004, the time provided is unlimited, only to be interrupted by question period, so that all questions can be answered and the issue can be dealt with expeditiously.

Debate arose thereon.

 

Judy Wasylycia-Leis moved, — That the motion be referred to the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure.

 

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was negatived, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 7.

 

The Committee resumed consideration of the motion of Dennis Mills, — That this Committee invite the Ministers and Deputy Ministers of Public Works and Treasury Board, for the period covering the sponsorship program, to appear as a panel to discuss their Ministerial responsibilities; and

- That, on February 26, 2004, the time provided is unlimited, only to be interrupted by question period, so that all questions can be answered and the issue can be dealt with expeditiously.

 

It was agreed, — That the motion be amended by replacing all of the words in the first paragragh with the following: “ - That the five Ministers of Public Works and the two Presidents of the Treasury Board and the two Deputy Ministers of Public Works and the two Secretaries of the Treasury Board for the period covering the sponsorship program be called to appear before the Committee in accordance with the schedule developed by the Subcommittee on Witnesses, starting on February 26 with Mr. Alphonso Gagliano”.

 

After debate, the question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 8; NAYS: 3.

 

The Chair presented the Second Report from the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure which read as follows:

 
The Subcommittee met on Thursday, February 19, 2004 and agreed to make the following recommendations:
 
1. - That, with regard to witnesses who may appear before the Committee in relation to its study of Chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General of Canada:
 
a) The Committee will decide which witnesses to call, based on discussions within the Committee or recommendations from the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure or the Subcommittee on Witness Protection and Testimony;
 
b) The Subcommittee on Witness Protection and Testimony may meet in camera with potential witnesses whose names are not in the public domain and make recommendations to the Committee as to the manner of receiving their evidence; and,
 
c) The Committee and its subcommittees may have the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel meet with possible whistleblowers and make recommendations to the Committee or its subcommittees as to the manner of receiving their evidence.
 
2. - That, if required, the Committee hold meetings on March 1st and/or March 2 for the sole purpose of receiving and publishing evidence.
 
3. - That the Chair request that the Library of Parliament assign additional resources to the Committee for the duration of its study on Chapters 3, 4 and 5 of the November 2003 Report of the Auditor General of Canada, namely a forensic auditor and an investigator.
 

Walt Lastewka moved, — That the Second Report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure be concurred in.

 

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 3.

 

The witnesses made statements and answered questions.

 

At 1:03 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

 



Bernard G. Fournier
Clerk of the Committee

 
 
2004/02/25 5:26 p.m.