FOPO Committee Meeting

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37th PARLIAMENT, 3rd SESSION

Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Thursday, February 19, 2004

0905

Mr. Stephen Knowles (Procedural Clerk)

Mr. John Cummins (Delta—South Richmond, CPC)

Mr. Stephen Knowles

Mr. Andy Burton (Skeena, CPC)

Mr. Stephen Knowles

Mr. Rodger Cuzner (Bras d'Or—Cape Breton, Lib.)

Mr. Stephen Knowles

The Chair (Mr. Tom Wappel (Scarborough Southwest, Lib.))

Mr. Bob Wood (Nipissing, Lib.)

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Hon. Robert Thibault (West Nova, Lib.)

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Hon. Robert Thibault

The Chair

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy (Matapédia—Matane, BQ)

The Chair

Mr. Bill Matthews (Burin—St. George's, Lib.)

The Chair

Mr. Bob Wood

The Chair

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy

The Chair

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. Rodger Cuzner

The Chair

Mr. Murray Calder (Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey, Lib.)

The Chair

Mr. Gary Schellenberger (Perth—Middlesex, CPC)

The Chair

0910

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Hon. Robert Thibault

The Chair

Mr. Loyola Hearn (St. John's West, CPC)

The Chair

Mr. Loyola Hearn

The Chair

Mr. Bill Matthews

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

0915

Mr. Loyola Hearn

The Chair

Mr. Stephen Knowles

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Hon. Robert Thibault

The Chair

Hon. Robert Thibault

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

0920

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

Mr. John Cummins

The Chair

CANADA

Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans

NUMBER 001

3rd SESSION

37th PARLIAMENT

EVIDENCE

Thursday, February 19, 2004

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

¿ (0905)

[Translation]

Mr. Stephen Knowles (Procedural Clerk): Members of the committee, we have a quorum. The first item of business is the election of the Chair, in conformity with Standing Order 106(3).

[English]

I am ready to receive motions for the nomination of chair.

Mr. Cummins.

Mr. John Cummins (Delta—South Richmond, CPC): I'd like to nominate Mr. Wappel.

Mr. Stephen Knowles: It is moved by Mr. Cummins that Mr. Wappel be elected chair of the committee.

Are there any other motions?

I therefore declare Mr. Wappel duly elected chair of the committee.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(3), the next item on the agenda is the election of two vice-chairs, one vice-chair from the government side and another vice-chair representing the opposition.

I'm ready to receive nominations.

Mr. Andy Burton (Skeena, CPC): I move that John Cummins be elected opposition vice-chair.

Mr. Stephen Knowles: Are there any other motions for nomination?

I therefore declare Mr. Cummins vice-chair, opposition.

Next is nominations for vice-chair, government.

Mr. Cuzner.

Mr. Rodger Cuzner (Bras d'Or—Cape Breton, Lib.): I nominate Bill Matthews.

Mr. Stephen Knowles: Moved by Mr. Cuzner that Bill Matthews be elected vice-chair, government.

Are there any other motions?

I therefore declare Mr. Matthews duly elected vice-chair, government.

I now invite the chair to take the chair.

The Chair (Mr. Tom Wappel (Scarborough Southwest, Lib.)): Thank you very much, colleagues.

We'll try to get this meeting done as quickly as possible.

Congratulations to Mr. Matthews and Mr. Cummins.

I notice that the former Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, the Honourable Robert Thibault, is here. I'd like to thank him for all his efforts while he was the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

We have a few routine proceedings we have to rush through, if you don't mind. They're all in front of you. The first will be the establishment of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure. I would be pleased to receive a motion in the form shown in motion 1, under “Routine Motions”. Who would like to move that?

Mr. Bob Wood (Nipissing, Lib.): I so move.

The Chair: Moved by Bob Wood.

Mr. John Cummins: Could I move an amendment to the motion?

The Chair: What amendment would you like to move?

Mr. John Cummins: Well, given that the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans is now a Privy Council member, I would move that he appear with the committee only at the request of the committee, that he not be a regular member of that committee.

The Chair: Of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, you mean?

Mr. John Cummins: Yes, because he is a privy councillor. The situation has changed somewhat from previously.

The Chair: Okay, so we have the motion moved and we have an amendment to strike the words “the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans”. You've heard the rationale of the mover of the amendment. Is there any discussion?

Monsieur Thibault.

Hon. Robert Thibault (West Nova, Lib.): If you're striking the parliamentary secretary, you should provide a government member.

Mr. John Cummins: I would be in favour of that, yes.

The Chair: Well, let's deal with one...it's a good point.

Mr. John Cummins: Well, I would put that in the amendment, that he be replaced with a regular member of the committee.

The Chair: Your original motion was that the words “the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans” be struck. The amendment is that “a member of the government” be inserted.

Hon. Robert Thibault: That is correct.

The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Thibault.

Is there any further discussion?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Motion number 2 has to do with the Library of Parliament research officers:

[Translation]

that the committee retain the services of one or more analysts from the Library of Parliament, as needed, to assist the committee in its work, at the discretion of the Chair.

[English]

Mr. Roy, would you like to move that?

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy (Matapédia—Matane, BQ): I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair: Motion number 3 is on reduced quorum. We have the usual motion: that there be at least three members present to do business, including a member of the government and a member of the opposition.

Who would like to move that motion?

Mr. Bill Matthews (Burin—St. George's, Lib.): I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair: Motion number 4 is the usual motion on witness expenses. We've passed this in the past.

Mr. Bob Wood: I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Motion number 5 is on working meals:

[Translation]

that the Clerk of the committee be authorized to make the necessary arrangements to provide for working meal for the committee and its subcommittees.

[English]

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy: I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

An hon. member: Should that not be at the discretion of the chair?

The Chair: An amendment has been suggested as follows: that the clerk of the committee, at the discretion of the chair, be authorized to make the necessary arrangements.

Is there any discussion on the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to)

The Chair: The next motion is on the distribution of documents: that the clerk of the committee be authorized to distribute to the members of the committee documents only when they exist in both official languages. That's, I believe, in the usual form.

Mr. Jean-Yves Roy: I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair: Motion number 7 is on the purchasing of documents.

Mr. Cummins, would you like to move an amendment that adds the words “at the discretion of the chair” after the word “committee”?

Mr. John Cummins: Yes.

The Chair: Is there any discussion on the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Motion number 8 is about transcripts of in camera meetings. This is self-explanatory.

Mr. Cuzner, would you like to move that?

Mr. Rodger Cuzner: I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion on the motion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: The next motion is on order-in-council appointments, the usual motion.

Mr. Murray Calder (Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey, Lib.): I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: The next motion has to do with witnesses' opening statements. Our usual practice is to give the witnesses 10 minutes for opening statements.

Mr. Gary Schellenberger (Perth—Middlesex, CPC): I so move.

The Chair: Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Next is motion number 11: that during the questioning of witnesses the time allocated to each questioner be as follows.... We have to make an amendment here. It will be Conservative Party, not CA, ten minutes; Bloc Québécois, five minutes; Liberals, ten minutes, Conservative Party, five minutes, Liberals, five minutes, NDP five minutes, and then rotation as usual.

¿ (0910)

I'll just repeat that: it's the Conservative Party, ten minutes; the Bloc Québécois, five minutes; the Liberals, ten minutes; the Conservatives for five minutes; the Liberals for five minutes; and the NDP for five minutes.

No one's moved that yet.

Mr. John Cummins: I'm saying what we should do on that is where for the Conservative and PC parties there were five minutes, they should just be added together, because we have four members on the committee now, as opposed to three. We would be actually losing time if you just scratched the PC time. There's a merger there, so those two numbers should simply be added together.

The Chair: Or we could have seven and a half minutes for the Conservatives and seven and a half minutes for the Liberals. Peter Stoffer isn't here to boost himself, unfortunately.

Hon. Robert Thibault: Mr. Chair, I think it's regular that they be in ten- and five-minute slots. Two parties have united to create one party. They should be treated as one party in ten- and five-minute slots, like the other parties. We have more members than four and we don't end up with twelve and a half minutes or thirteen and a half minutes.

The Chair: All of this is of course interesting and debatable, but we don't have a motion in front of us yet, because nobody's moved anything. We were just trying to figure out what the appropriate thing would be.

The House leader of the Conservative Party.

Mr. Loyola Hearn (St. John's West, CPC): In one of the other committees yesterday, on the very first round the opposition got 12 minutes to make up for lost time; further down the Liberals got 10; then everything else flowed as usual. I don't know whether you want to do that, or give seven and a half and seven and a half—

The Chair: What committee was that?

Mr. Loyola Hearn: We'll check that out for you.

The Chair: Mr. Matthews, what comments do you have?

Mr. Bill Matthews: All I'm saying, Mr. Chairman, is that it's even as it is between the opposition and the government. The government has more members, so why don't we just leave it at ten and five? We're pretty flexible on this committee—

The Chair: All right. Will Mr. Cummins then move that the Conservative Party have ten minutes, followed by the Bloc for five, followed by the Liberals for ten, followed by the Conservatives for five, followed by the Liberals for five, followed by the NDP for five, and then carrying on comme ça?

Mr. John Cummins: I so move.

The Chair: It is so moved. Is there any further discussion?

¿ (0915)

Mr. Loyola Hearn: Just for clarification, it was the aboriginal affairs meeting—not that it matters.

The Chair: Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Notices of motion: “That except for....” Is this the form this committee had it in before, or is this the form that committees usually have? I can't recall.

Mr. Stephen Knowles: In some cases, Mr. Chairman, there have been slight editorial changes in the drafting of motions to keep up with current usage. But I understand you had a 48-hour notice in the previous session.

The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Who would like to move motion number 12?

Mr. Hearn, how about you?

All right. Is there any discussion of motion number 12?

(Motion agreed to [SeeMinutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Ministerial appearances: “That the clerk of the committee be instructed to endeavour to have all meetings televised whenever a minister appears before the committee.” That's our usual practice.

Mr. Burton, would you like to move that?

It is so moved. Is there any discussion?

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. John Cummins: I have a couple of quick motions, Mr. Chairman, that I don't think are too out of the ordinary. I have them in both official languages.

The first one would be—and this would be notice, actually—that whenever the main estimates or the supplementary estimates are tabled in the House, the committee invite the minister and any relevant senior officials of the department to appear at a televised meeting of the committee.

The second motion would be that whenever a chapter of a report of the Auditor General refers to a subject under the mandate of the committee, the committee invite the Office of the Auditor General of Canada and any relevant senior officials of the department to appear at a televised meeting of the committee.

The Chair: Colleagues, we have two ways of doing this. We've just passed a motion that we have to have 48 hours' notice of substantive motions. They both seem to be uncontroversial motions. If we have unanimous consent of the committee to move the motions today, the mover could move the motions, and if we so deem, we could pass them; or he can give us notice and we can deal with them at the next meeting of the committee. Either way, neither the Auditor General nor the estimates are going to be before us before the next meeting. So that's entirely up to the committee.

Monsieur Thibault.

Hon. Robert Thibault: I don't want to move a subamendment or anything. I understand this to be a notice of motion and that you're asking for consent.

I would ask the mover, through you, is it the intention on these appearances as invited that the chair give the instruction to the committee that the presentation, as well as the questions, be limited or directed toward the subject at hand--the main estimates or the items of the report by the Auditor General?

The Chair: I would kind of like to ask, is the minister driving a green car?

Hon. Robert Thibault: Having appeared at the committee--

An hon. member: I think that's the voice of experience over there, and I can't deny the record.

The Chair: Mr. Cummins, do you have copies of that motion--

Mr. John Cummins: Yes, I do.

The Chair: --for everybody?

Mr. John Cummins: I don't know. How many...?

We just added the words “if possible” there, because sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. But there are enough copies in both official languages for everybody.

I just added, as you can see, Mr. Chairman, the words “if possible” down there. Sometimes it's going to work, and sometimes it isn't, but I think it just would be our intention that it happen. It would just give you, Mr. Chairman, when that information becomes available, the opportunity to get the jump on it without waiting for direction from the committee.

The Chair: Mr. Cummins, do you have any more surprise motions?

¿ (0920)

Mr. John Cummins: No, that's it.

The Chair: This will be it, because all the members have other places to go, including you.

Mr. John Cummins: Yes, and me too.

The Chair: Okay. Does everybody have a copy of the suggested motion in front of them? Is it the will of the committee to give unanimous consent for Mr. Cummins to move these motions?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chair: Mr. Cummins, you've moved your motions. You have permission to do so.

What is that little word in there?

Mr. John Cummins: It's “if possible”. It's just if it's possible.

The Chair: So the motions will read as they appear, except that after the word “televised” in the last line of each paragraph, the words “if possible” will be added--“si possible”, en français.

Is there any discussion on these motions? Everybody is content with them? All right.

(Motions agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The Chair: Is there any other business?

We will have a meeting of the steering committee next Wednesday. We will have our first meeting of the committee next Thursday, at a time and place to be announced, and the discussion will be a refresher course by our researcher on where we are on the issue of the coast guard.

Thanks very much for your support.

The meeting is adjourned.