AANR Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 72

Monday, May 12, 2003

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources met at 3:34 p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chair, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Gérard Binet, Raymond Bonin, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Benoît Serré, Maurice Vellacott.

Acting Members present: Judi Longfield for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Aileen Carroll for John Godfrey, Marlene Catterall for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Roy Cullen for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Rodger Cuzner for John Godfrey, Tony Tirabassi for Benoît Serré, Tony Tirabassi for Gérard Binet, John Finlay for Benoît Serré, Judi Longfield for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Paul Szabo for Benoît Serré, John Bryden for Julian Reed.

In attendance: From the Committees Branch: Jeffrey LeBlanc and Joann Garbig, Legislative Clerks.

In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Mary Hurley and Tonina Simeone, Analysts.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Warren Johnson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Trust Services; Paul Salembier, Senior Counsel.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Monday, October 7, 2002, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-7, An Act respecting leadership selection, administration and accountability of Indian bands, and to make related amendments to other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Monday, January 27, 2003, Meeting No. 14).

The Committee resumed Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

On Clause 30,

Yvan Loubier moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 30, be amended by replacing lines 2 to 5 on page 18 with the following:

“establishment of a national governance centre that will assist bands or first nations with the development of governance codes.”

At 3:36 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 3:48 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Pat Martin moved – That the amendment be amended by replacing lines 2 to 5 on page 18 with the following:

“establishment of regional governance centres that will assist bands with the development of governance codes consistent with culture, tradition, treaties and inherent rights”

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Aileen Carroll, Charles Hubbard, Marlene Catterall, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Benoît Serré, Maurice Vellacott (9)

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Aileen Carroll, Charles Hubbard, Marlene Catterall, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Benoît Serré, Maurice Vellacott (9)

Yvan Loubier moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 30, be amended by replacing lines 8 to 13 on page 18 with the following:

“deposited in the band registry”

After debate, Pat Martin moved – That the amendment be amended by adding after the words “band registry” the following:

“in either French or English and in the First Nation’s own language”

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Aileen Carroll, Charles Hubbard, Marlene Catterall, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Maurice Vellacott (8)

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Rodger Cuzner, Charles Hubbard, Marlene Catterall, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Tony Tirabassi, Maurice Vellacott (9)

At 5:58 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:24 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 30, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 18 with the following:

“payment of a nominal fee not to exceed the cost of copying, a band shall”

After debate, Yvan Loubier moved – That the amendment be amended by adding after the words “a band shall provide a copy” the following:

“in the first language of the particular First Nation”

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Toni Tirabassi, Stan Dromisky, Rodger Cuzner, Charles Hubbard, Judi Longfield, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, John Finlay (8)

Debate resumed on the amendment.

Pat Martin moved – That the amendment be amended by adding after the word “payment” the following:

“of a fee to be determined by the Band administrator and escalated from year to year in accordance with the Consumer Price Index as set by the Federal Government”

At 7:19 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 7:22 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 7:25 p.m., the sitting was suspended for lack of quorum.

At 7:31 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Debate resumed on the sub-amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pat Martin (1)

NAYS: Tony Tirabassi, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Judi Longfield, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Paul Szabo, Maurice Vellacott (8)

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Tony Tirabassi, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Judi Longfield, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Paul Szabo, Maurice Vellacott (8)

NAYS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

Charles Hubbard moved, -- That Bill C-7, in Clause 30, be amended

(a) by replacing lines 32 and 33 on page 18 with the following:

be taken of a code or band law made under this Act that has been deposited in the national registry and published by the registry in the manner prescribed by the regulations.

(b) by adding, after line 36 on page 18, the following:

Failure to deposit

(9) No code or band law is invalid by reason only that it was not deposited in, or published by, the national registry.

Contravention of unpublished law

(10) A person may be convicted of an offence under a band law that at the time of the alleged offence was not deposited in the national registry or not published, if it is proved that reasonable steps had been taken to bring the band law to the notice of that person.

After debate, Yvan Loubier moved – That the amendment be amended by adding after the word “published” the following:

“in one or other of the official languages or in the language of the First Nation”

The Chairman moved the proposed sub-amendment out of order on the grounds that it corresponds to an earlier sub-amendment of a similar nature moved by Pat Martin and already negatived by the Committee.

At 8:21 p.m., the sitting was suspended for lack of quorum.

At 8:24 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Stan Dromisky, Rodger Cuzner, Judi Longfield, Anita Neville, John Bryden, Paul Szabo (6)

NAYS: Tony Tirabassi, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (3)

Debate resumed on the motion, “Shall Clause 30, as amended, carry?”

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Tony Tirabassi, Stan Dromisky, Rodger Cuzner, Charles Hubbard, Judi Longfield, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Paul Szabo (8)

NAYS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

Accordingly, Clause 30, as amended, carried.

At 8:53 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Elizabeth B. Kingston

Clerk of the Committee