JUST Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 53

Tuesday, December 4, 2001

The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights met at 9:40 a.m. this day, in Room 705, La Promenade Building, the Chair, Andy Scott, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Carole-Marie Allard, Michel Bellehumeur, Bill Blaikie, Chuck Cadman, Irwin Cotler, Paul DeVillers, Brian Fitzpatrick, Ivan Grose, Peter MacKay, John Maloney, John McKay, Lynn Myers, Stephen Owen, Denis Paradis, Andy Scott, Kevin Sorenson, Vic Toews, Pierrette Venne.

Acting Members present: Marcel Proulx for Paul DeVilliers; Tom Wappel for John McKay; Robert Lanctôt for Michel Bellehumeur; Garry Breitkreuz for Kevin Sorenson; John Finlay for Carole-Marie Allard.

In attendance: From the Committee Director and Legislative Services: Richard Dupuis, Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerks. From the Library of Parliament: Gérald Lafrenière, researcher.

Appearing: Stephen Owen, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

Witnesses: From the Department of Justice Canada: Karen Markham, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section. From the Canadian Firearms Centre: Gary Webster, Chief Executive Officer; Al Goodall, Registrar; Kathleen Roussel, Legal Counsel. From the RCMP: Murray Smith, Chief Forensic Scientist, Firearms, Correction.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Wednesday, September 26, 2001, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-15B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to amend other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, October 2, 2001, Meeting No. 22).

The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 is postponed,

On Clause 2,

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 16 and 17 on page 1 with the following:

“dont il est démontré qu’elle n’est pas conçue ou adaptée pour tirer du plomb, des balles ou”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 2 carried, on division.

Clauses 3 to 7 carried severally, on division.

On Clause 8,

Peter MacKay moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 1 to 41 on page 3, lines 1 to 32 on page 4, lines 1 to 24 on page 5 with the following:

"8. The heading before section 444 and sections 444 to 447 of the Act are replaced by the following:

CRUELTY TO ANIMALS

444. In this Part, “animal” means a vertebrate, other than a human being, and any other animal that has the capacity to feel pain.

445. (1) Every one commits an offence who, wilfully or recklessly,

(a) causes or, being the owner, permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal;

(b) kills an animal or, being the owner, permits an animal to be killed, brutally or viciously, regardless of whether the animal dies immediately;

(c) kills an animal without lawful excuse;

(d) without lawful excuse, poisons an animal, places poison in such a position that it may easily be consumed by an animal, administers an injurious drug or substance to an animal or, being the owner, permits anyone to do any of those things;

(e) in any manner encourages, promotes, arranges, assists at or receives money for the fighting or baiting of animals, including training an animal to fight another animal;

(f) builds, makes, maintains, keeps or allows to be built, made, maintained or kept a cockpit or any other arena for the fighting of animals on premises that he or she owns or occupies;

(g) promotes, arranges, conducts, assists in, receives money for or takes part in any meeting, competition, exhibition, pastime, practice, display or event at or in the course of which captive animals are liberated by hand, trap, contrivance or any other means for the purpose of being shot at the moment they are liberated; or

(h) being the owner, occupier or person in charge of any premises, permits the premises or any part of the premises to be used in the course of an activity referred to in paragraph (e) or (g).

(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than eighteen months.

446. (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) negligently causes unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal;

(b) being the owner, or the person having the custody or control of an animal, abandons it or fails to provide suitable and adequate food, water, air, shelter and care for it; or

(c) negligently injures an animal while it is being conveyed.

(2) For the purposes of paragraphs (1)(a) and (c), "negligently" means departing markedly from the standard of care that a reasonable person would use.

(3) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than two years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

447. (1) The court may, in addition to any other sentence that it may impose under subsection 445(2) or 446(3),

(a) make an order prohibiting the accused from owning, having the custody or control of or residing in the same premises as an animal during any period that the court considers appropriate but, in the case of a second or subsequent offence, for a minimum of five years; and

(b) on application of the Attorney General or on its own motion, order that the accused pay to a person or an organization that has taken care of an animal as a result of the commission of the offence the reasonable costs that the person or organization incurred in respect of the animal, if the costs are readily ascertainable.

(2) Every one who contravenes an order made under paragraph (1)(a) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

(3) Sections 740 to 741.2 apply, with any modifications that the circumstances require, to orders made under paragraph (1)(b)."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Vic Toews moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by deleting lines 3 to 5 on page 3.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Vic Toews moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 4 and 5 on page 3 with the following:

"vertebrate, other than a human being."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 3 with the following:

“who, wilfully or recklessly, and without legal justification, excuse, or colour of right,”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 3 with the following:

“(c) kills an animal;”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 16 on page 3 with the following:

“(d) poisons an”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 22 to 41 on page 3 and lines 1 and 2 on page 4 with the following:

“(1.1) Every one commits an offence who, wilfully or recklessly,

(a) in any manner encourages, promotes, arranges, assists at or receives money for the fighting of animals, including training an animal to fight another animal;

(b) builds, makes, maintains, keeps or allows to be built, made, maintained or kept a cockpit or any other arena for the fighting of animals on premises that he or she owns or occupies;

(c) promotes, arranges, conducts, assists in, receives money for or takes part in any meeting, competition, exhibition, pastime, practice, display or event, excluding a sport hunting activity whose purpose is to capture an animal, such as hunting with hounds or a roue du roi, at or in the course of which captive animals are liberated by hand, trap, contrivance or any other means for the purpose of being shot at the moment they are liberated; or

(d) being the owner, occupier or person in charge of any premises, permits the premises or any part of the premises to be used in the course of an activity referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c).”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 4 on page 4 with the following:

“under subsection (1) or (1.1) is guilty of”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended

(a) by replacing lines 9 and 10 on page 4 with the following:

conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment for a term of not more than eighteen months or to both.


(b) by replacing line 32 on page 4 with the following:

conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars or imprisonment for a term of not more than six months or to both.

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 4 with the following:

“who, negligently and without legal justification, excuse, or colour of right,”

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 4 with the following:

“(a) causes unnecessary pain,”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 16 and 17 on page 4 with the following:

the custody or control of an animal, wilfully or recklessly abandons it or negligently fails to provide suitable and

Brian Fitzpatrick moved – That the motion be amended by replacing lines 22 and 23 on page 4 with the following:

(2) for the purposes of subsection (1), “negligently” means departing mark-

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment it carried.

The question being put on the amendment as amended, it was adopted on division.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 4 with the following:

“(c) injures an animal while it is”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 22 to 24 on page 4 with the following:

“(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), “negligently” means departing markedly in any way from the care that a reason-”

By unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 5 the following:

182.5    For greater certainty, subsection 8 (3) applies in respect of proceedings for an offence under this Part.

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Ivan Grose moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 5 the following:

"182.6 (1) In this section, "law enforcement animal" means a dog, a horse or any other animal used by law enforcement personnel in the execution of their duties.

(2) Every one commits an offence who

(a) assaults, injures or causes the death of a law enforcement animal; or

(b) assaults, injures, causes the death of or poisons, or in any way attempts to poison, a law enforcement animal while it is kenneled, penned, transported or otherwise held.

(3) Every one who commits an offence under paragraph (2)(a) or (b) is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than two years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

(4) The court, in addition to any sentence that it may impose under subsection (3), must order the offender to pay all restitution costs, including training costs, resulting from the law enforcement animal being killed or otherwise rendered unable to perform its duties."

John McKay moved – That the motion be amended in paragraph 3 to the effect that everyone who commits an offence under paragraph (2)(a) or (b) is guilty of

(a)    an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five year; or

(b)   an offence punishable in summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment for a term of not more than eighteen months or to both.

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment it was adopted.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment as amended, it was adopted on division.

Vic Toews moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 5 the following:

"182.5 No person shall be convicted of an offence under this Part where he or she proves that he or she acted with legal justification or excuse and with colour of right."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Vic Toews moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 5 the following:

"182.6 No proceedings shall be instituted under this Part without the consent of the Attorney General."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

After debate, Clause 8, as amended, carried on division.

On new Clause 8.1

Pursuant to the motion adopted by the Committee on October 4, 2001 -- That Bill C-15B be amended by adding the following new clause after line 24 on page 5:

8.1 Paragraph 264.1(1)(c) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(c) to kill, poison or injure an animal that is the property of any person.

New Clause 8.1 carried on division.

Clause 9 carried on division.

On new Clause 9.1

Pursuant to the motion adopted by the Committee on October 4, 2001 -- That Bill C-15B be amended by adding the following new clause after line 26 on page 5:

9.1 Paragraph 515(4.1)(c) of the Act is replaced by the following:

(c) an offence relating to the contravention of subsection 5(1) or (2) , 6(1) or (2) or 7(1) of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, or

New Clause 9.1 carried, on division.

Clauses 10 to 16 carried severally on division.

On Clause 17,

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 17, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 9 with the following:

a prohibited firearm, other than a handgun referred to in subsection 12(6.1), under that subsection,

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Clause 17, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 18 to 20 carried severally on division.

On Clause 21,

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 21, be amended by

(a) replacing line 39 on page 10 with the following:

“1998 handguns) or a proposed importation of a restricted firearm, verify the purpose for”

(b) replacing line 1 on page 11 with the following:

“(c) decide whether to approve the transfer or importation”

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 21 carried on division.

Clauses 22 to 40 carried severally on division.

On Clause 41,

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 41, be amended by replacing line 6 on page 20 with the following:

subsection that is issued before December 31, 2001,

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Clause 41, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 42 carried on division.

On Clause 43,

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 43, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 17 on page 21 with the following:

renouveler les permis et les autorisations de port

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 43, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 20 on page 21 with the following:

(2) En cas de renouvellement du permis de

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Clause 43, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 44 to 47 carried severally on division.

On new Clause 48.1

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B be amended by adding after line 30 on page 22 the following new clause:

“48.1 Notwithstanding any provision of this Act, for greater certainty, the chief firearms officer of a province shall be responsible, under the powers conferred by this Act, for the administration of the Firearms Act, including the receipt, processing and issuance of licences, and transfers, authorizations and licences for businesses.”

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clauses 48 to 51 carried severally on division.

On new Clause 51.1

Robert Lanctôt moved the following motions:

That Bill C-15B be amended by adding after line 20 on page 24 the following new clause:

“(2) Section 95 of the Act is amended by adding the following after paragraph (b):

(c) establishing eligibility criteria for the purposes of subsection 5(1).”

That Bill C-15B be amended by adding after line 20 on page 24 the following new clause:

“51.1 (1) The portion of section 95 of the Act before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:

95. The federal Minister may, with the approval of the Governor in Council, enter into and renew agreements with the governments of the provinces”

That Bill C-15B be amended by adding after line 20 on page 24 the following new clause:

“51.2 The Act is amended by adding the following after section 95:

95.1 In the provinces, a chief firearms officer shall be responsible for the financial management and administration of the processing offices established under the Firearms Act.”

Decision by the Chair

These motions propose to amend section 95 of the Parent Act, namely the Firearms Act, which is not in the Bill as read a second time by the House.  They are therefore inadmissible, as according to procedure, an amendment may not amend a section from the original Act unless it is specifically in a clause of the Bill before the Committee.

On Clause 52,

Stephen Owen moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 52, be amended by replacing lines 29 and 30 on page 24 with the following:

Criminal Code, for any period specified by the Governor in Council.

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.

Clause 52, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 53 and 54 carried severally on division.

On Clause 55,

Robert Lanctôt moved, -- That Bill C-15B, in Clause 55, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 26 the following:

“(4) Section 117 of the Act is amended by striking out the word “and” at the end of paragraph (v) and by adding the following after paragraph (v):

(v.1) defining the role, duties and functions performed by and the powers exercised by the Commissioner; and”

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 55 carried on division

Clauses 56 to 58 carried severally on division.

The Chair called Clause 1.

The Title carried.

After debate, Clause 1 carried.

The Bill, as amended, carried.

ORDERED, -- That Bill C-15B, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (Cruelty to Animals and Firearms) and the Firearms Act, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at Report Stage.

ORDERED, -- That the Chair report Bill C-15B with amendments to the House as the Ninth Report of the Committee.

At 12:45 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Catherine Barrette / Marie Danielle Vachon

Clerks of the Committee