CHER Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON CANADIAN HERITAGE

COMITÉ PERMANENT DU PATRIMOINE CANADIEN

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Thursday, April 22, 1999

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[English]

The Chairman (Mr. Clifford Lincoln (Lac-Saint-Louis, Lib.)): I throw open the meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), consideration of a Canadian cultural policy.

[Translation]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage is meeting to continue its consideration of a Canadian cultural policy.

[English]

Today we are especially pleased to have with us two members of the aboriginal peoples of Canada. But we would especially like to offer our congratulations to you, Mr. Ernerk, for the founding of Nunavut. It was a big day for all of us. We are very pleased to have you here today, and also Mr. Iain Phillips.

Your name is Rohahes. Do you use just one name in the Mohawk culture?

Mr. Iain Phillips (Mohawk Elder, Kahnawake): It depends very much on the community you come from.

The Chairman: What does Rohahes mean?

Mr. Iain Phillips: The simple version is “the one who has the long road or long trail”.

The Chairman: A long trail—so you've come a long way.

Mr. Iain Phillips: Yes.

The Chairman: Just before we start, do you have a comment to make, Mr. Mark?

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Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd just like to make a request to the committee to set aside time in a future meeting to deal with the motion my colleague, Eric Lowther, made regarding the international Convention on the Rights of the Child. He received the report from government and would like the opportunity to discuss it with this committee.

The Chairman: The clerk will follow it up.

Mr. Ernerk, we'll open the meeting with you. I'm sorry for the delay, which was unavoidable because of the vote. We usually give about 15 minutes for people to make their presentations. After that I'll turn to Mr. Phillips and then open the meeting to questions. The floor is yours.

Mr. Peter Ernerk (Deputy Minister, Culture, Language, Elders, Youth, Government of Nunavut): Nakurmik. That's Inuktitut for thank you; merci in French.

I thank you for your kind opening remarks. Good morning, members of the committee. I welcome this opportunity to speak about Nunavut, the changes we have gone through, and what this means for the people of Nunavut as well as all Canadians.

The Chairman: Mr. Ernerk, if I may interrupt you, I'm really pleased Nancy, your MP, is with us for just a few minutes. I know she's on the committee next door, but we're very pleased to see you here, Nancy. I think this is the first time in the history of Parliament that a deputy minister from Nunavut has appeared as a witness in front of a committee. So we are extremely proud this is happening.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Nunavut means “our land” in our Inuktitut language. Nowhere else in Canada or in the circumpolar world are things changing more quickly and more drastically than in Nunavut. The creation of Nunavut flows from the settlement of the Inuit land claim in the eastern and central Arctic and the passage of the title legislation in 1993.

The settlement of the land claim has changed the way government and business are done in Nunavut. They are user-friendlier. Economically and politically, Inuit are now major participants and partners in the development of Nunavut.

Nunavut's government is very similar to those governments of the Northwest Territories and the Yukon, but it's not exactly the same. With equivalent powers to those of the existing territories, Nunavut has a legislative assembly, a cabinet, and a court system. There are no political parties in Nunavut in our legislative assembly; however, we have opted for a different court system, a single-level trial court.

While the Government of Nunavut is a public government, elected by and representing all citizens of Nunavut, 85% of the population is Inuit. This means Inuit culture and values are better reflected and represented within the government. The work of incorporating Inuit qaujimajatuqangit, which is Inuit traditional knowledge, into the Government of Nunavut has already begun. We plan, for example, to return to the traditional Inuktitut names of our communities. Iqaluit has already been changed from Frobisher Bay, as an example.

Inuktitut is the official working language in the Government of Nunavut. The government is working in tandem with public bodies established by the Nunavut land claim agreement to manage and advise on social development, environment, and resource matters. The Department of Sustainable Development is co-managing our resources, supporting mixed economic growth while protecting the quality of life and the environment.

Nunavut is a highly decentralized government. The Department of Culture, Language, Elders and Youth, for example, is decentralized to Igloolik. Out of 30 headquarters positions, 20 of them are in Igloolik.

While most of the government's headquarters' functions are located in the capital of Iqaluit, other functions are decentralized to ten communities outside of the capital. This means the government is closer, more accessible, and more responsive to the people it serves.

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Four assistant deputy ministers are located in communities outside of Iqaluit. One of them is our assistant deputy minister.

We are taking advantage of advances in telecommunications technology to bridge the distance between us. We are using technology to link our communities in order to more effectively deliver programs, such as telehealth services and distance education.

Decentralized government also means that training, employment, and other economic opportunities are distributed more broadly throughout the territory. Balanced economic activity and opportunity is very important to us. Our economy is poised for further development, and we want to ensure maximum benefits for our people.

Like the other territories and provinces, Nunavut has a construction sector, transportation and communications sectors, and a growing tourism industry. We have two operating mines, an emerging marine fishery in the Davis Strait, and even a small manufacturing sector. Different from most of Canada, however, a large number of our people derive income from harvesting and arts and crafts.

In Nunavut the Inuit development corporations play a significant role in investment and job creation. The public sector has been and will increasingly be a major employer and a stimulus to secondary industry. The new government has given a major boost to the investment climate. New jobs are being created. This is a time of tremendous activity in Nunavut. This is a time of momentous change, opportunity, challenge, and great expectations.

Nunavut faces some serious social and economic challenges. Almost half our population is under the age of 20. To achieve our vision of a better future for our youth and for all the people of Nunavut, we will have to do some things differently from how they have been done in the past. We're looking at new ideas all the time, new ways of doing things, and new partnerships.

The people of Nunavut expect to see changes in their government. They expect their government to be different. They expect their government to be closer to them, more open, more representative, more accessible, and definitely more user-friendly.

Only 40 years ago my parents and I were living in an igloo and surviving on Nunavut's wildlife, such as caribou, fish, seals, and whales. Not so very long ago the people of Nunavut, and indeed all the people of the Northwest Territories, were governed by public servants who lived in Ottawa. Today we have taken back control of our lives and our destiny. How we have chosen to govern ourselves and how we blend Inuit traditional knowledge and wisdom with modern technology and how we work together may well be an inspiration to others.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, Nunavut is the result of Inuit and non-Inuit working side by side in harmony and mutual respect to create a government that works better for all of us and provides a more hopeful future for our children. Our vision of our government and our society is an inclusive one where differences are accepted and accommodated, where consensus is sought, and where all of our citizens have a role and are encouraged to participate and contribute. Created and built patiently and peacefully through goodwill and in partnership, Nunavut is an extraordinary accomplishment. It is an achievement we can all be proud of.

Mr. Chair, that completes the first part of the presentation. If I have time to answer the questions that were posed to us, I would like to do that during the few remaining minutes I have available to me.

The Chairman: You referred to the first part of the presentation. Is there another part to it?

Mr. Peter Ernerk: I have some answers to the five questions that were asked of us prior to my coming down here.

The Chairman: I see what you mean. Yes, I understand.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Mr. Chair and members of the standing committee, you have asked a number of questions, especially with regard to federal cultural programs, as to which worked well and which did not particularly for the Inuit of Nunavut. They include cultural educational centre programs—the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development programs; Brighter Futures community action program for children, through Health Canada; the northern native broadcast access program, which funds the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation; the polar continental shelf project, which includes traditional knowledge; the Aboriginal Languages Foundation, and again I believe this is DIAND; Head Start, through Health Canada; and Canada Council programs.

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In general, ongoing programs are approved and controlled at the regional level, with specific community funding allocations. For example, Brighter Futures and Head Start had greater impact than programs lacking these qualities, such as aboriginal language programs and cultural educational centres.

Importantly, programs with overly complex application procedures and lengthy delays in response, i.e., Canada Council programs, have not been fully effective in Nunavut and are generally underused. Some culturally helpful programs, such as the polar continental shelf project and traditional knowledge could have better impact if they were better promoted in the communities. Others, for example, the northern native broad access program, have suffered substantial funding cutbacks and as a result are becoming less effective.

On the impacts of new technologies—you asked that question—satellite communications, television, VCRs, and video have in general had a negative impact on Inuit culture and language, particularly the overwhelming effect of television and the proliferation of southern video entertainment.

The efforts of the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation have certainly demonstrated the possibility of concentrating the effects of southern media, but its effectiveness has been increasingly limited by a lack of sufficient resources.

Computers have been appropriately adopted for use in Nunavut. The development of Inuktitut fonts or syllabics in word processing software over the past ten years has contributed to an impressive increase in the quantity of written material, from books to newspapers and school text published in Inuktitut.

Two-way radio receivers have also had a positive impact in encouraging communication between elders and younger hunters. They allow Inuktitut language to be used and Inuinnaqtun to be used freely, and permit the exchange of information essential to learning land skills.

On the impacts of trade liberalization and globalization, trade liberalization is beneficial to Inuit cultural products, particularly Inuit art and handicrafts. On globalization, if the mainly favourable and supportive international media coverage given to the creation of Nunavut is any indication, globalization at this particular level at least has some positive benefit to Nunavut.

Changing demographics are a major concern in Nunavut. As I said in my opening remarks, we have a birth rate at least twice the national average, a young population—with almost 60% under the age of 25—and a rapidly diminishing number of elders. Under these circumstances, the effective transmission and preservation of Inuit culture, language, and values becomes extremely difficult, particularly in a culture whose traditions are oral. Addressing this issue will be one of the many challenges facing our new department.

Under the federal role in future cultural support, we support federal programs and the federal government's present role in the broad promotion of culture in Canada, and we would welcome any expansion of this role. We would ask to be closely involved in the development of any new federal cultural initiatives, particularly those involving Nunavut. We would also like the opportunity to review the cultural programs now in place and make recommendations for their better accessibility and effectiveness in Nunavut.

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Mr. Chair, for your information we have provided our brief for you in both French and English on our department's role in the Government of Nunavut.

Thank you very much for allowing me to speak on our government as well as answer your questions.

The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Ernerk. I think you have given us a very comprehensive position on what your government does, the impact of technology, demographics and globalization, and the impact of programs on your government. We are extremely grateful to you, and I'm sure members will have lots of questions for you later on.

Meanwhile, Mr. Phillips, I will turn to you.

Mr. Iain Phillips: Mr. Chairman, honourable members—

The Chairman: What feather is that, Mr. Phillips?

Mr. Iain Phillips: This is an eagle feather.

The Chairman: Where did you get the eagle feather?

Mr. Iain Phillips: This one was given to me quite a number of years ago by a group of elders for me to carry, in the work I do.

The Chairman: I'm really curious about this wonderful tradition. Are these eagle feathers passed on from elder to elder?

Mr. Iain Phillips: They can be.

The Chairman: Is it always the same feather? For instance, will you eventually pass it on to somebody else?

Mr. Iain Phillips: That is one of the traditions and it can be done that way. Other times they might be buried with the person, when the time comes.

The Chairman: Go ahead, Mr. Phillips.

Mr. Iain Phillips: Thank you.

From the outset I would like to make it clear I do not and cannot speak for all first nations people in Canada. I am but one man who strives to follow my people's traditional ways and assist and educate where I can.

In attempting to aid you in your task and answer the five questions posed in your press release of January 8, 1999, I can speak to you only from a traditional and personal viewpoint. Admittedly, this viewpoint is coloured by my growing up on the Kahnawake reserve and being involved in my people's spiritual traditions. In this instance, my words may be of benefit in assisting your committee in understanding the aboriginal view of culture and tradition.

Culture and tradition, for many first nations people, cannot be easily separated into the neat boxes of sector and industry. There is no division between the sacred and the secular, as all things are viewed as being sacred, having come from the Creator. Many of the art forms and other visual and musical expressions of our cultures are inseparable from the sacred and are more often than not part of a complex religious system.

It should be noted that many first nations languages do not have a word for “art”. The concept of art for art's sake is a European one. Historically, every design had a meaning, a special role to play within the society in which it was developed, whether it was the complex clan totems of the west coast people, the elaborate feather bonnets of the plains people, or the intricate beaded items of the eastern woodland people.

While some of these items have found their way into the popular consciousness and some have become valuable collectors' items, many first nations people still regard these items with great respect and are saddened by the trivialization of such sacred objects and the mass production of cheap foreign imitations.

Cultural appropriation continues to be a major problem. The list of appropriated traditional names is practically endless. Apache helicopters, Cherokee clothing, Oneida silversmiths, and Algonquin Beer are just a few examples.

The Government of Canada must work in partnership with first nations people to develop strong safeguards that will protect traditional and sacred cultural properties. Canada also must not allow itself or its first nations people to become victims of creeping American cultural imperialism, which sees all art and culture as a commodity to be bought, sold, and traded.

At this point, I'd like to address the five questions that were posed in your press release. The views I'm expressing here, again, are my personal views. I should explain that I am speaking to your committee as an individual—as an elder within my community.

I know a lot of these views are held similarly across Canada among first nations people because I've had the opportunity to travel this country from the east coast to the west coast. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to go north yet. Some day that might happen.

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In speaking with a lot of other aboriginal people, I have found similar views.

The first question was: from the range of federal government cultural support measures in place or used in the past, which ones worked well in your sector or industry and which ones did not?

For the most part, first nations people have relied on programs promoted by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development or Heritage Canada. DIAND has had an Indian art centre for years and has actively promoted the collection of first nations contemporary art.

The Canada Council for the Performing Arts has been very underused by first nations people. Recent chances at the council have made the programs more accessible to first nations arts practitioners. A range of first peoples' programs has been added, making the council much more attractive to first nations. Better promotion on their part has greatly aided the situation.

One of the best forums for the promotion of first nations art, music, and culture has been the development of the national aboriginal achievement awards. These awards have brought to the Canadian public a profound awareness of the achievements of first peoples.

There have been ongoing battles over the use of traditional knowledge. This ties into the concept of cultural property and how to protect this property. Again, I remind the committee that the whole concept of culture as industry makes no sense to the vast majority of first nations people when viewed from a traditional, spiritual viewpoint.

The Government of Canada, with first nations, must develop bodies that will allow first nations to control and regulate cultural activities and develop themselves. Further, the resources needed to guard these traditions must be provided.

Question two was: what are the major impacts of new technologies on your cultural sector or industry? What are they expected to be in the future?

The newest communications technologies can play a critical role in preserving the oldest North American cultures. With the under-25 segment of Canada's aboriginal population growing at triple the mainstream rate, a whole generation of computer-savvy first nations young people can acquire school- and job-related skills by distance education, while remaining in their familiar community surroundings.

High aboriginal school dropout rates have been linked to the culture shock experienced by many students forced to attend school far from their homes and families. The use of information technologies is also crucial to the creation of greater awareness and understanding among mainstream Canadians about aboriginal issues.

This September's national launch of the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network will bring an unprecedented level of awareness of aboriginal people and their issues into seven million living rooms every day. This is a vital public education exercise for Canadians, two-thirds of whom admitted to a national pollster last December that they knew too little about first nations issues.

Question three was: what are the major impacts of trade liberalization and globalization on your cultural sector or industry? What are they expected to be in the future?

Without strong first nations and government partnership to create laws and regulations to protect traditional cultural property in Canada, foreign interest could run roughshod over the traditional rights of first nations. This is already evident by the flood of cheap Asian knock-offs of aboriginal art that can be found in many Canadian tourist shops.

The United States already feels it can do this to Canada, as witnessed by the recent magazine issue. This situation is expected to worsen as international trade barriers are lifted, without proper safeguards to protect both first nations and Canada. Canada and first nations must work together to pressure international trade organizations and bodies to recognize aboriginal cultural property rights. The continued work on the UN Universal Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples will have a major impact in this area.

Question four was: what are the impacts of changing demographics on your cultural sector or industry? What are they expected to be in the future?

First nations communities have one of the highest birth rates in Canada. Many of these young people are rediscovering their traditional culture. This has led to an enormous flowering of traditional and cultural activities in our communities. The demand for ways to assist in preserving our old knowledge has led to increased demands on our educational systems and information on the new technologies.

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As our people become more familiar with these new tools, it is inevitable that new forms of cultural expression will be developed. These new forms will need their protection too. It is clear that the new forms of expression that will result from the new technologies will not be limited to first nations communities. The same protections will need to be extended to the legacy your children will create with the new tools.

Question five was: what role should the federal government perform in future to support the cultural sectors or industries?

The federal government and first nations must work together to create culturally appropriate safeguards that will protect traditional and sacred cultural property. Any laws, regulations, or controls enacted for the protection of first nations must have the control vested with the first nations, as they are the ones who are living the culture. Adequate resources must be provided to ensure any laws, safeguards, or controls be defensible in both Canadian and international legal venues.

This concludes the direct answers I have to your questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, honourable members.

The Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr. Phillips. I think it was particularly interesting that you brought forward the concept that in first nations there is no such thing as separating tradition and culture from your spiritual values; they are all one.

I would like to turn the questioning over to Mr. Mark first, please.

Mr. Inky Mark: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to thank both of our guests who appeared before the committee today. They have both certainly come a long way.

On behalf of the official opposition, I'd like to congratulate Mr. Ernerk and the Government of Nunavut. We wish you all the best in the future.

When you mentioned that decentralized government was the way to deliver service, it was like music to my ears because that's what I believe in. I'm sure the people at the grassroots level want to have a say.

What form of local government do you currently have in Nunavut?

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you. The decentralized model came from an elder. Let me just explain one or two things. In Taloyoak, in 1994, when we were going around to the communities—that was the work of the Nunavut Implementation Commission, the organization I was with previously—he said don't forget the unilingual elders who only speak Inuktitut. That's where the idea came from for us to promote Inuit traditional knowledge and that we needed to have four official languages in Nunavut—Inuktitut, Inuinnaqtun, French, and English.

The municipal government is very similar to southern models. We only have two levels of government—the Government of Nunavut as well as community governments. They're elected at the local community level. They have a mayor, so it's very much the same as the communities. Decentralized government provides closer contact between the people at the community level and their government and our territorial government.

Mr. Inky Mark: Following on that same theme, is there a process for municipal governments to have input into decisions that are made at the territorial level?

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Yes, we have a department called Community Government Housing and Transportation. This department has a very close working relationship, as we all do, with the people in the communities. So there's a lot of input into the government's work in the implementation of government programs by the local municipalities, and as well at the legislative level.

Mr. Inky Mark: Okay. If I may ask one more question, to Mr. Phillips, what is the current government doing to protect the culture of the first nations? Are they doing things well? Are there some programs that are outstanding in your mind?

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Mr. Iain Phillips: To the best of my knowledge, the Department of Indian Affairs is beginning to promote the education programs they're running more, and there is now a push on for a languages sector. From what I understand, the Assembly of First Nations now has a languages sector, which is funded through the Department of Indian Affairs, and there is major activity happening there. As you know, in most communities, if you manage to preserve the language, it does go a long way to preserving the other traditions too.

The Chairman: Madame St-Hilaire.

[Translation]

Ms. Caroline St-Hilaire (Longueil, BQ): Thank you, Mr. Erneck and thanks to you too, Mr. Phillips. It seems to me that we are not very familiar with Aboriginal culture, and it would be to your advantage to explain it to us. I do not know how we can discover your culture or how you succeed in sharing it. You have said a great deal about protecting Aboriginal culture. I would like to know how you manage to protect it, and also how you share and promote it among young people and not-so-young people, whether they are from Quebec or Canada. What are you doing to ensure the survival of your culture in the context of globalization?

[English]

Mr. Iain Phillips: I personally feel it's very important for our people to share what we know, to share our culture, not just in the sense of setting up interesting little tourist places where you can come and watch us dance, but to understand where we're coming from, our original strong ties with the land, our systems of belief. But in order for us to do that, it is vitally important that we make our centres and our homes strong.

It's only within the last 20 years that there has been a major resurgence, and I'm speaking specifically about my own people, the Mohawk people, and especially my home reserve, Kahnawake. When I was going to school there, in elementary school and my first years of high school—that was about 25 years ago—that was just the beginning, the very first stirrings, of any real sort of cultural resurgence or awareness.

I remember the first time, just as I was leaving elementary school and high school, I was beginning to be exposed to language classes in the school. Now this has gone a long way; we now have full immersion courses. I'm proud to say my nieces and nephews speak better Mohawk than I do.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you for that question.

It's an important question because sharing the culture of the Inuit is something we promote very highly.

We have a vision statement, which I will leave with you. One of the vision statements we have is “promotes harmony amongst the people that we serve”.

Concerning Inuit culture, we are a hunting society. We live off the animals. We, like our brothers, the first nations people, are very much tied to the land. We have never ever wasted any parts of the animals and we have never wiped out any species of animals that we hunt. Everything we hunt is used for food consumption or for clothing.

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Sharing the culture is important. We always like to say that we work to promote Nunavut, to build Nunavut by all people who live in Nunavut, and Canadians.

I guess culture is very much accepted by the people because there are lots of intermarriages, for example, among our people. We freely give, we freely share our culture, we promote our language. We want to learn to speak French. We would like other people to learn to speak Inuktitut and Inuinnaqtun.

We have taken a number of steps to do that. We have taught non-Inuit senior staff of the Nunavut government to learn to speak Inuktitut and Inuinnaqtun. We take them out caribou hunting and seal hunting, for example, so they have an appreciation of what Inuit life is about.

We are teaching Inuktitut to our own people who have forgotten their Inuktitut language over the course of many years. In my time we were slapped for speaking Inuktitut in our classroom. We're the very people who are now promoting Inuktitut to be taught in all sectors of the schools. We're helping the Department of Education, for example, to establish courses in Inuktitut from kindergarten to grade 12. Now that's something that's still in the works, but it's coming, and it will be taught in a much bigger way in the classrooms in Nunavut.

The cabinet of Nunavut the other day released the information that Inuktitut will be the operating language of the cabinet. So we're promoting and sharing the language as much as possible. We're doing this for a number of reasons. We want to protect the language, we want to preserve the language, and we want to promote the language.

Next month the legislative assembly will convene for the first time. They will use the Inuktitut language as the official working language. We're very happy to speak our own language freely.

The Chairman: Mrs. Lill.

Ms. Wendy Lill (Dartmouth, NDP): Thank you. It's a real honour to have both of you here to speak with us.

As you talk about culture, I think of the idea that came to us from one of our meetings in Halifax, through a letter from somebody who was at the meeting. They took exception to our putting culture in a little box in the same way possibly that you are. They said culture, in fact, is the way you talk and use your hands amongst your family, what kind of food you eat, the kinds of jokes you share, the kinds of stories you tell your children at night, and the memories you have of one another. That's what culture is; it begins there. Obviously, for the aboriginal people, the impact of breaking families apart, for the many decades that native children were taken away and taken to residential schools, was to just destroy the bedrock of culture.

What is happening now seems like a miracle. It's just a credit to the strength of the culture that it has not been destroyed. It fights back. It continues to fight back in terms of the use of language and just the amazing generosity you have about wanting to share that and knowing that native culture has so much to teach others. I think about a sense of forgiveness and patience and sharing and the sense of value of the land.

Right now we are involved in a global war, which is insanity and is causing environmental destruction and destruction of other human beings. So I would love to see native values brought to the table there to bring some sort of sanity to that situation.

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In terms of how we can help to continue this revitalization, this rebirth of your culture, you mentioned such things as distance education. What does that mean exactly? Does it mean people sitting in front of televisions and getting what they need to fit into the technological society, and at the same time being able to live within the culture they want to strengthen?

So I need to know what it means, and how we, as the representatives of this federal government, can really push for the things you really need, the nuts and bolts to make your culture stronger even than it is?

Mr. Iain Phillips: Thank you. With respect to the concept of distance learning, as many of you know, this is a relatively new concept and it has only come about as a result of the development of the new technologies. Distance learning has actually been a boon to a lot of the more isolated aboriginal communities in the sense that it has permitted teaching, and it is an interactive system—at least some of the systems I'm familiar with are interactive—where those students who are in the isolated community are in direct contact with a classroom and a teacher. Even though they're 700 miles away from that class, for all intents and purposes they are there; the teacher and the students interact with each other and the other members of that classroom in real time.

This allows those students to stay at home within their communities but still gain the tools to deal with the modern world, our modern western society. They still keep in contact with the cultural values, the language and the traditions they wouldn't have access to if they had, as in previous times, been shipped out to residential schools or to boarding schools, or from the north or from the isolated communities into the major urban centres.

The Chairman: Mr. Ernerk.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of distance education, I took museum courses last year, for example, with the University of Victoria. This is one type of distance education we're talking about. The course was not readily available in Nunavut or the Northwest Territories, but it's the kind of thing we promote with the people in Nunavut communities.

This allows us to do one thing at the same time. As you say, culture is an important factor in our lives. In Canada we are an open society. This is something that's very good for us in Canada altogether. It allows us to be able to continue learning with our own culture, as well as within our own language.

In my own time, when I was going to school, people like Jack Anawak, who used to be our member of Parliament for Nunavut, and many others, names like Jose Kusugak, the president of Nunavut Tungavik—we were taken away from home to go to a residential school, and we forgot much of our own culture, much of our own language, much of our own spirituality. Now we've taken all that back, and we're making sure our culture and our language are taught by our elders to the young people of Nunavut.

But here we have the opportunity to stay at home and take various courses that are available to us from southern Canada, such as the one I mentioned, museum studies. So we think it's important and it's working.

The Chairman: Mr. Muise.

Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to our guests. Thank you very much for being here. We could spend all day asking questions, I'm sure.

Mr. Phillips, I'm really curious about your necklace. This is for personal reasons only, but could you tell us a little bit about it?

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Mr. Iain Phillips: What I'm wearing around my neck is actually a bear claw necklace with bone separators. This was given to me as a gift by one of the elders in Edmonton, Alberta, when I was in Edmonton last March.

Mr. Mark Muise: Is it old or is—

Mr. Iain Phillips: I don't think so. I think it's fairly recently made. It was a very special gift to me. The man who gave it to me was a member of the bear clan, and the bear claws would be special to them. In my people's tradition, the bear clan are the medicine keepers. So it was a very special gift when it was given to me at the time.

Mr. Mark Muise: Thank you.

My question is somewhat like Mrs. Lill's. Over the last year and a half we've been talking about protecting culture—or should we protect culture—and how we go about doing it with a cultural policy. I'm curious as to how those first nations in the north, who for a long time were isolated but now have distance learning and satellite TVs and all those things, go about protecting their cultural way of life. I think the way you would go about it in a sense would help us in how we would protect culture in general in Canada. I'd like to get your opinions on that.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: That's an important question, how to go about protecting your way of life, especially with all the modern technology we see all the time.

One of the mandates we have in our own department, and we put it in as one of the very first ones, is our role as the supporter and guardian of traditional Inuit culture, language, and heritage. That's one of the things we're asked to do.

I wanted to also explain briefly that this is pretty much the picture we promote in Nunavut.

Mr. Mark Muise: Both.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Right, both. It's something we're really proud of. Before Nunavut, we struggled to promote, protect, and preserve Inuit culture and language—Inuinnaqtun. Nunavut makes us equal, in the sense that we're free to be able to protect, promote, and preserve our own culture. We do that in a number of ways. In terms of our language...whenever you go to a big AGM of Inuit organization meetings, the language of work is obviously Inuktitut and Inuinnaqtun. Whenever you make a visit to Nunavut, come and visit me in my office and you'll see me operating in my own language. I'm really proud of that, and I really want to promote it as much as possible.

It's quite usual to go into any of the government offices and have the non-Inuit DMs or other people, as soon as you enter the room, say uplaakut, which is good morning in my language. That's the thing we're reporting in our own government as well as within our own territory of Nunavut.

In terms of how to protect and promote the other culture, we're doing that in a number of ways. Through the education system, the elders are playing a very big role in promoting arts and crafts, promoting Inuit culture, the hunting way of life, and Inuit society in general. In terms of working with the other organizations, such as Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated, the land claims organization...for example, we're working with Inuit Heritage Trust, the land claims group, the Inuit group, the beneficiaries group, and the Nunavut Social Development Council to promote Inuit culture and language and, something I was talking about, Inuit qaujimajatuqangit, which is Inuit traditional knowledge.

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So we have a fairly large team in Nunavut to promote Inuit culture and language.

Take my children, for example. Both girls and boys are out on the land and go caribou hunting with me, just so they learn how to live the kind of life I was brought up living. I lived in an igloo for the first 17 years of my life. But we don't do that anymore. We still live off the land—the caribou, the seals, the marine mammals—and we gather berries and things like that. They're healthy and nutritious, and it's something I promote to my children.

But in order to promote the language and the dialects, we make every effort to speak to our children in Inuktitut, even though there's a thing called television in front of us. That's a struggle we're facing today in terms of promoting our own culture, but I know we will succeed.

Mr. Mark Muise: Thank you.

Mr. Iain Phillips: My answer probably mirrors my colleague's quite closely.

The northern peoples have had a little bit of an advantage over us. In fact, their isolation for many years actually helped them preserve their language, whereas we, the southern peoples, having had more exposure to western culture, lost more of our language. For us it's more of a struggle to pull our language resources back together. It's happening, but....

I have notes to myself here. In the whole concept of traditional values, in supporting that and revitalizing it, I have the word “youth” written here many times. In the Mohawk language we have a prayer that opens every meeting called Ohën:ton Karihwatënkwen. One of the lines of the prayer is to have a special thought for the people, men, women, and children, with a special thought for the children because the children are our future.

I have notes here to talk about youth and digital technology—visual arts, music and performance, opportunities for expressing values and traditions in new ways. The phrase I wrote here is “from crows to glass beads to digital animation”. I did allude to that in my text, where I said when we have more access to these tools, these new technologies, we will develop new ways of expressing our cultures within those media. Your children will do the same thing.

In fact, I had the privilege of listening to the CBC just the other night. They had a whole forum discussing new technology and the impact on the performing arts. It was just amazing to hear that.

As our children become more aware of these technologies, those forms of expression are going to develop, and we need to encourage that as much as possible.

Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.): Thanks very much for attending today and for sharing your thoughts. I understand how important it is for us to hear from many different peoples from across the country. As my friend Mr. Muise said, we could stay here all day and share information back and forth.

With respect to Ms. Lill's comments on culture...(Editor's Note: Technical Difficulty)

I don't necessarily disagree with that focus on culture and the perception of it being one of boxing in, but I think as one approaches it in a different light, if one approaches culture with an open mind, realizing that culture is made up of a lot of uniqueness and flexibility...[Editor's Note: Technical Difficulty]

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On the macro level of Canadian culture, it is only as strong as or as weak as the microcosms of culture and the uniqueness of cultures that make up...[Editor's Note: Technical Difficulty].... It's rare that you can go anywhere and see Canadian art, Canadian culture, Canadian stories being presented. It's especially hard when you're travelling internationally not to see some sort of representation there from our first nations people, from our aboriginal people, and for that—

The Chairman: Mr. Bonwick, the mike is not functioning properly. If you can just shift the other microphone over....

Just carry on from there, Paul.

Mr. Paul Bonwick: I was commenting on the fact that it's a rarity to travel anywhere and see any type of representation from Canada with respect to culture, stories or art and not find a significant component therein representing aboriginal peoples or first nations people. For that, congratulations. You should be very proud. In fact, all Canadians should be proud that we're promoting all these individual identities within the overall Canadian cultural scene.

It's in this regard that I'd like to touch on one of your comments regarding globalization and the impacts of globalization. It's my opinion that globalization has the opportunity, if approached in the right way, to be very positive for both your peoples, in fact Canada as a whole, as long as we approach it in such a way that we have safeguards in place to make sure we're not overwhelmed by these—I do not like to use the word “culture” when referring to the U.S., but that huge industry that seems to come in and overwhelm many smaller cultures, many smaller identities.

I'm wondering if you can tell me specific ways—I have two parts to this question—we could help, first of all, to stimulate and encourage greater participation and cultural endeavours within your individual communities, and secondly, if you have specific suggestions on how we could assist or make recommendations to the minister and the government in assisting gaining greater profile than you already have and in turn I think distribution of your art, your stories, not just within Canada but abroad as well.

Mr. Iain Phillips: In my original text I did allude to the fact that before these international trade barriers come down, safeguards must be put into place first. I think it would be almost foolish for both the Government of Canada and first nations people to allow this to happen.

There was much concern over...I can't remember the name of it; it has now died.

A voice: MAI.

Mr. Iain Phillips: Yes, thank you. There was much concern over that, and there was much concern in the aboriginal community about the effects MAI would have had on indigenous rights throughout the entire world.

Again, I think the provisions that are going to be in the UN Universal Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples are going to be of major value in creating and developing these safeguards.

As for the promotion, I keep going back to youth, because if we start catching them now, we get them to think in the right ways, along traditional ways, while still able to use those new technologies and those new tools that are coming to us from the western societies, but use them in a traditional manner and still keep the centre strong. We're going to be doing great things. That's where I think we need to start putting our emphasis. Direct it towards youth, because they're the ones who are going to carry us forward.

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In my people's tradition we actually, some of us, say we've already done our thing. We can still work and we can help, but we've done our thing and it's up to those who are coming behind us. In the Iroquois tradition we refer to the concept of the seven generations, where everything we do and every decision we make has to be weighed for the consequences of seven generations. I don't think there's a government in the world that thinks beyond six months or a year or two.

The Chairman: Mr. Ernerk.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Like Mr. Phillips we have a lot of concern for the youth of Nunavut, because the majority of our population is very young in Nunavut. Not all of our people want to be carvers, in arts and crafts, but they want to be educated. We promote good education.

When I was talking to an elder one day in my original home town of Repulse Bay, I asked him, what do you feel about the youth of Nunavut? He said, I would like to see them know the ways of the Inummariit, which is the true Eskimo, with knowledge of the land, knowledge of the sea, knowledge of weather forecasting, and things like that. He said at the same time he would like to see them receive a good education, have good jobs, and know the world of computers. This is pretty much the way we look at our youth in Nunavut.

In terms of actual opportunities, the globalization of Nunavut, I do want to promote that there are a lot of people who are coming to us about how they could promote Nunavut. Yesterday I had a journalist from France who was asking me what I thought about all these people who are coming to see me in Nunavut. He said, they're asking you all kinds of questions about your traditional knowledge, your culture, your language, and things like that. We said the Nunavut government will promote, big time, arts and crafts, which is something I mentioned in my opening remarks, as well as the traditional harvesting economy.

We would like to see good educational opportunities for our youth. For those of us who were born in a very primitive way, who lived and saw the primitive way of life, and saw the beginning of the space age, we naturally are not as well educated as our young people today. We promote that young people know the traditional way of life, the Inuit way of life, but have the knowledge of the computer world. We say this in two ways. In Inuktitut I can open my computer and write a letter to the president of the Inuit Tapirisat of Canada, using Inuktitut fonts. I can do that with my colleagues in Nunavut.

But at the same time we plan to promote the arts and crafts industry in a big way. That promotes Inuit culture as well as the Inuit way of life.

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In terms of economic opportunities, among other issues we talk about for our youth is tourism, which is something we naturally promote. I think the Canadian government can help us promote the tourism industry in a big way in Nunavut. Nunavut is open for business.

The Chairman: I have a request for two questions from Mr. Mark and Mr. Dumas before we close. But I would like to ask your indulgence as a committee to give unanimous consent, because Mr. Muise has to leave and we have a quorum of nine people.... We have had our budget approved by the committee of the House, and now it's a case of getting this motion I've sent to you approved so that we can engage the various professionals for the last two months to finish our report.

By the way, these figures are all checked with the committee and they're all in line with what these reports cost. The only thing that is not in there is the last line you see on the paper you've been given. Colophon Group did the English editing of the report. We haven't engaged somebody for the French edition of the report. The editing is not covered by the House of Commons, so we'll have to go outside, and we're negotiating. The fees we were offered were too high. So there will be a corresponding amount for the French edition, which we'll bring up in a separate motion later on.

I'd like to have a motion to approve these figures, and I interrupt the meeting for a short while so that we can do this business.

Mr. Paul Bonwick: I so move.

(Motion agreed to)

The Chairman: Thank you.

Mr. Mark, and then Mr. Dumas, and then we'll close.

Mr. Inky Mark: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It was very interesting to hear Mr. Ernerk describe his culture as a hunting culture, living off the land in an unwasteful and sustainable manner. Certainly you were doing it long before the south even discovered the word “sustainability”. Obviously hunting involves firearms, and that certainly is a large part of your culture.

As you know, the government of the day several years back passed a fairly large gun control bill called Bill C-68. As well, for the aboriginal community I believe there is a set of adaptive policies by which they could opt out with respect to their culture. I was just wondering if the Nunavut government will be asking the federal government for an opt-out provision from the gun control bill, Bill C-68.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Don't get me into trouble here. I think the best person to answer that question would be the Premier of Nunavut. I apologize. I would have to say no comment.

Mr. Inky Mark: Okay. I certainly will do that. I'll ask your premier.

The Chairman: Mr. Dumas.

[Translation]

Mr. Maurice Dumas (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, BQ): I am very happy to welcome Mr. Erneck and Mr. Phillips here. I should say that I am very aware of matters affecting Aboriginals, because Kanesatake is in my riding of Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel. I have had the opportunity of meeting the people and one of my good friends lives there. Furthermore, almost 50 years ago, I taught in the neighbouring town of Saint-Placide, which used to be called Oka. I know a bit about the way aboriginals were treated when they came into the village of Saint-Placide.

I would like to ask two short questions which may give rise to somewhat longer answers. Mr. Erneck, you said that your legal system was different from ours. Perhaps you could explain in what way this is so.

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You also said half your population is under the age of 20. What percentage of these young people under 20 are continuing their studies? Are any of the older ones involved in more advanced programs: do they have plans to obtain a doctorate or practice a profession?

[English]

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In terms of education, every community now has an education facility, a school. Most of the communities in Nunavut—there are 26 communities—have higher education facilities up to grade 12. So now we no longer have to go away from our community to go to school.

We do not have universities in Nunavut. We do have Nunavut Arctic College, which offers higher education in trades for many of our people in the communities. We have no universities, and some of the people who want to take university courses do have to come south and attend universities. For example, our premier is the only lawyer in Nunavut, the first Inuk lawyer in Nunavut. We're very proud of that. So we're moving in that direction, providing a good education to our people in Nunavut.

I apologize. I couldn't hear much of the first question and I wonder if the honourable member would repeat the first part of the question, please.

[Translation]

Mr. Maurice Dumas: At the very beginning of your presentation, you said your legal system is different from ours. Could you explain for us what the differences are?

[English]

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Regarding the Nunavut legal system, I'm not the deputy minister responsible for Nunavut justice, but I have some involvement from the traditional knowledge point of view. The minister for Nunavut justice is Jack Anawak, a former member of Parliament from Nunavut, who established a slogan a couple of years ago, “Justice that makes peace”.

One of the things I have been involved in with regard to Nunavut justice, which is slightly different from southern Canada but it includes many things from southern Canada, is the fact that a judge in Iqaluit sometimes has an elder sitting with her when sentencing people, for example.

One of the things we have been involved with is including traditional customary laws as they relate to issues such as custom adoptions, which are very important to Inuit culture. Another thing we've been involved in is to establish a Nunavut law review, which will study priorized laws that are important to the residents of Nunavut, in particular the Inuit.

As you know, laws that are in place right now have been transferred from the Northwest Territories to the Government of Nunavut, but is it a priority to have forestry laws in Nunavut, for example? We have no trees in Nunavut, so the priority is to take a look at laws that pertain directly, that touch the people of Nunavut, such as game laws. I mentioned customary laws such as custom adoptions and other laws that will affect the people of Nunavut. Language law is an important one as well. These are the kinds of things that will have a lot of input from the Nunavut residents.

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I'm not sure if I answered the question totally.

The Chairman: I'd like to thank you very much, Mr. Ernerk, for coming here to join with us, and also Mr. Phillips, to share the wisdom of your peoples with us. We thank you very much.

Mr. Peter Ernerk: Thank you.

Mr. Iain Phillips: Thank you.

The Chairman: This meeting is adjourned.