:
I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.
Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from recommendations from health authorities as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on Thursday, November 25, 2021, to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two-metre physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated. Proper hand hygiene must be maintained by using the hand sanitizer provided in the room. Please refrain from coming into the room if you are symptomatic.
I remind all members and witnesses that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute, and your camera must be on if you are participating virtually.
Today we are here to study the main estimates 2022-23 and to receive an update on application backlogs as requested by the committee. I would like to welcome the minister to this committee. He will be here with us for the two hours. Thanks a lot also to the officials who have joined him.
Today we are joined by the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, and also by officials from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. We are joined by Caroline Xavier, acting deputy minister; Marian Campbell Jarvis, senior assistant deputy minister, strategic and program policy; Daniel Mills, senior assistant deputy minister, operations; Catherine Scott, assistant deputy minister, settlement and integration; and as well as Hughes St-Pierre, chief financial officer and assistant deputy minister, finance, security and administration.
Thank you, minister, and officials. I welcome you.
You will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Please begin.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
[Translation]
Good morning, everyone.
It is a pleasure to be here with you today.
[English]
It's becoming a matter of routine that we get to show up, and I really appreciate the conversations we have at this committee.
It's good to be here again this time to present details of the 2022-23 main estimates for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.
[Translation]
IRCC remains dedicated to working with the committee to support our immigration, refugee and asylum systems.
We are committed to maintaining Canada as a leading destination of choice for the world’s most talented and skilled people, and as a country known for its dedication to meeting international humanitarian commitments.
[English]
As the committee is aware, we plan to continue our efforts to attract record numbers of skilled workers to help our economic recovery from the pandemic. In addition, we're going to continue to prioritize family reunification and offering shelter to the world’s most vulnerable.
In support of these commitments, these main estimates that we are discussing today reflect the total funding of $3.9 billion. This represents a net increase of $654.4 million compared to last year’s main estimates. The most significant additional allocation in the main estimates is $208.8 million for the implementation of the multi-year immigration levels plans.
To ensure that Canada has the workers that it needs to grow our economy and address our labour shortages, our immigration levels plan aims to continue welcoming an increased number of newcomers in order to continue our recovery from the pandemic. Specifically, the additional funding will allow us to resettle totals of 431,645 permanent residents in 2022, and next year we will see 447,055 new permanent residents.
[Translation]
This builds on our previous plan, with an increased focus on supporting our economic resurgence and post-pandemic growth.
The government also remains firmly committed to our humanitarian efforts, including our plan to resettle at least 40,000 Afghan refugees over the next two years.
[English]
More than 12,600 Afghan refugees now call Canada home, and we're going to continue working with our partners in the region and using all other means available to secure safe passage for those aiming to leave Afghanistan and for onward travel to Canada. To support this undertaking, the main estimates contain $106.2 million to support the Afghan resettlement commitment.
They also include $83.5 million for the interim federal health program. As you know, Madam Chair, this program provides temporary health coverage to resettle refugees, asylum seekers and other groups until they are eligible for provincial or territorial health care plans.
These main estimates contain $173 million for the interim housing assistance program.
[Translation]
This program provides financial support to provincial and municipal governments for extraordinary interim housing pressures that result from costs related to both the COVID‑19 pandemic and increased volumes of asylum claimants in recent years.
[English]
Madam Chair, as I discussed at a previous appearance, our government is building a modern immigration system that will position Canada to compete on the global stage for the world's best talent. We're already the top destination of choice globally for workers who would like to resettle in another country. We have to make sure our system allows us to take advantage of that fact.
To proceed with building a new, modernized digital and data-driven immigration system, the main estimates also include $33.1 million. As we further adapt our processes to new technology, IRCC continues to explore more options to uphold and improve our client services. Therefore, to support our client support centre, $22.1 million is included in these main estimates.
[Translation]
These are the most significant allocations in the 2022-23 main estimates.
[English]
As you're aware, we're committed to an immigration system that supports our economic recovery, addresses our labour shortage, meets the needs of newcomers and serves the interests of communities across Canada. The main estimates we're presenting will help us achieve this.
[Translation]
Once again, thank you to the committee for this opportunity to meet with you.
[English]
I would now be pleased to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First and foremost, thank you to the officials for being here. I'll say it was a pleasure to tour Europe with the minister, and especially with Mr. Mills. Thank you, officials, for everything you're doing.
Right off the bat, I'd like to have the minister and the officials, if they can, provide documents or table with this committee a few things from testimony that we heard from the defence department at the Afghan committee. The first is the number of Afghan cases referred to IRCC by GAC and DND. Secondly, out of those cases, how many are currently in process? The third is the number of those cases that IRCC has made a decision on, whether approved or refused, and if they're refused, the reason for the refusal. Lastly, how many of those cases were withdrawn?
Perhaps we could please have those tabled as soon as possible with the committee.
Minister, Afghan interpreters have brought up concerns about their families, whether they're in Afghanistan or outside, who are being treated as security threats. With respect to the number of people referred by DND or GAC, or Afghans who have applications in the SIM who worked for the Canadian government and their families who have applied for the program, do you know how many have been labelled or identified as security threats to Canada after you've gotten their application from GAC or DND?
:
We made a decision not to proceed with visa-free travel in our Ukraine program and instead put in place the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel. From my perspective, the program is working very well.
We pared off the vast majority of criteria that would normally lead to a finding of inadmissibility, with the exception of biometrics. You had the opportunity during our trip to travel to Warsaw, where you saw the new biometrics collection facility. When we were there, we saw that people were in and out in less than 10 minutes in most cases. Our capacity to process people exceeds the demand that's being put on the system, so the numbers in the inventory will continue to come down if that remains the case.
This has not proven to be a barrier for people to access the program. Maybe it did in the first or early weeks, but right now it seems to be moving quite well, with more than 100,000 people approved.
We've made a decision to stick to the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel, rather than to enter into a visa-free travel regime in the middle of an armed conflict.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister and officials for being here.
Through you, Madam Chair, to the minister, I'd like to first of thank you for your hard work dealing with the Afghan refugees and the Ukraine situation. I truly appreciate your hard work.
My question to the minister is this. I noticed in the estimates that the operating expense for the 2022-23 fiscal year for citizenship and passports is $566.7 million. The fees paid by applicants represent about 66% of the amount, so the government is only required to cover 34% of that overall expense.
Do the estimates take into account the cost associated with the current surge?
:
First of all, I had the opportunity to join for the celebration yesterday evening that welcomed, I believe, 41 Ukrainian interns. Every party in the House of Commons was represented. It was one of the most moving things I've seen in a very long time, when our new arrivals broke into the Ukrainian national anthem. I just want to say thank you to all who were there. It was a moment in my life that I will hold with me for a very long time.
With respect to those who wish to study, we made a decision early on that we would attach eligibility, either for an open work permit or a study permit, to those who come under the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel. I have not personally had conversations to address the costs with provincial governments, though they may be as much with educational institutions as they will be with any level of government.
I am of the view that those who come to study in our institutions make extraordinary economic, social and, frankly, cultural contributions to our communities, to the extent that there's an opportunity for us to explore possibilities. I'm open to it. We have not put in place a plan to address this, as it's quite atypical for the immigration department to engage in questions around scholarships, for example.
However, to the extent that we can look at what tools we have to make it easier for people to live, work and study in Canada, I'm extremely interested from a humanitarian point of view to do the right thing to support people fleeing vulnerable circumstances, but I believe it's in our self-interest to support people who wish to make those kinds of contributions to our communities.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Once again, Minister, thank you for taking the time to appear before the committee. You are very available to this committee, and we are very grateful to you.
There is a very serious scourge raging these days in Quebec, particularly in the Montreal metropolitan area. I'm talking about shootings. Day after day, we see shootings related to criminalized groups, and there are deaths. They happen because gun trafficking is very prolific. Today, it's almost easier for criminalized groups to buy a gun than a pint of milk at the corner store.
We have been told that a quarter of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP, officers deployed in Quebec are managing the Roxham Road instead of dealing with gun trafficking at the border.
Minister, when will you ensure that the safe third country agreement is suspended?
:
Thank you for the question.
I certainly agree that the problems with guns and gun violence are a scourge.
I will take the liberty of answering the question in my own language, because I will be using technical terms.
[English]
One of the things that I think is important is that, when we look at the reason that RCMP officers may be engaged—and I will be careful not to dabble too much in the 's sandbox here—it's to enforce the laws we have on the books.
It's essential, when we look at our domestic and international legal obligations, that we don't ignore the responsibility we have to enforce those laws. I expect what you're getting to is the engagement of the RCMP who may be involved with processing people who have crossed the border and claimed asylum. What's important to realize is that, if we don't have people set up to process people as they come across the border—
:
I'm sorry, Madam Chair. The minister knows that I only have six minutes, and his answer is a bit too long.
Minister, my question is not complicated: when will the safe third country agreement be suspended?
At present, some RCMP officers are managing Roxham Road instead of doing their job, which is to tackle organized crime and arms trafficking. If this agreement were suspended, that road would be closed. You know that very well, Minister.
Yesterday, the told us that the government was in discussions with representatives of the United States to modernize the agreement. According to the information I have obtained, these negotiations have stalled, and they are not a priority for your government. What is happening right now is very serious. The situation at Roxham Road has led to an increase in gun trafficking, and the Quebec market is flooded with illegal firearms. As we speak, people are dying. Criminal groups are taking advantage of the situation, since the RCMP cannot do its job properly.
What are you waiting for to suspend the safe third country agreement?
:
Thanks for the question.
I don't have any reason to believe that any files are lost in the system. Without speaking to the specifics of individual cases, I think you're hitting on an issue that I can try my best to provide some clarity on.
Prior to the last federal election, we made a decision to resettle 20,000 Afghan refugees. Subsequently, we campaigned on a commitment to increase that number to 40,000. Bear with me for 30 seconds. There has been a significant number beyond the 20,000 who have now been formally brought into the process. The total of those 40,000 spaces is not yet filled. That will be filled after we get these referrals from folks.
I expect that everyone who will be brought into the program—or who have reached out and will not be brought into the program—will have an answer in a very short period of time. I'm guessing it will be in the next few weeks.
I did have the opportunity to speak with a representative of the group that you referred to, just a few days ago. I anticipate that, within a matter of weeks, there will be clarity for all of those who've reached out seeking to become part of the program.
:
It troubles me, the very fact that IRCC has asked for those files to be resubmitted. The minister says the files are not lost. If they're not lost, why is IRCC asking for those files to be resubmitted?
We also just heard from the Department of National Defence that they submitted 3,800 files to IRCC by way of referrals. These are individual Afghans whose files have been verified by the Department of National Defence. They advise that only 900 of them have been accepted.
What's happened to the other files?
The minister says not to worry, that they'll get to it. Meanwhile, media reports are indicating that people are being tortured. Afghan interpreters—those with enduring relationships to Canada—are being captured by the Taliban and tortured. Every second of the day counts for the lives of these individuals.
I am absolutely astounded with the process here. If the files are not misplaced or lost, or if somehow IRCC officials can find them, why are they asking for them to be resubmitted?
:
I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt the minister for a second here.
Saying how many people have come, versus how many applications, is completely different. We know, for example, that the former interpreters have submitted 300 applications, for a total of 5,000 people amongst those. Using those numbers does not actually answer the question. I'm sorry, Minister.
Please, the answer that I'm looking for is why the IRCC is asking people to resubmit their files if they're not lost. If the minister can't answer that question, I ask him to ponder it and submit an answer to the committee, because I don't want to hear numbers again.
I need to get on with my next question.
In terms of discrepancy in treatment, I have a file on a situation where people asked the UNHCR for a referral. That was back in March and they got an appointment for June 14. They told the UNHCR that they couldn't wait because their visa would expire in Pakistan. Meanwhile, in a similar case, they went directly to the high commission of Canada and they were processed.
How is it possible that there could be discrepancies of this magnitude in the treatment of files?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the minister and all the witnesses for being here.
Minister, chapter 18 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice lays out the rules about the financial cycle and the main estimates. It says that members have the right to have their grievances addressed before approving requirements of the Crown.
As you're probably aware, one of the grievances that I have deals with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada operations and leadership relating to your associate deputy minister on the production of papers motion that we have that's before IRCC. As you're likely aware, there are some issues with redactions in documents that were finally sent over just yesterday, but there are still two documents that have redactions that we have not been able to see.
When Madam Xavier was here at the committee last week, she was somewhat dismissive about the absolute constitutional authority of the House of Commons to send for documents. Indeed, she actually said that the IRCC was able, through client-solicitor privilege, to redact documents, which I don't believe is true.
I guess my question for you is, bearing in mind that you are also a member of Parliament, a member of the House of Commons, and not just the minister, do you agree with your deputy that IRCC has the authority to override the House of Commons' constitutional authority and withhold information from this committee?
:
I have another question, then.
The production of papers motion asked for documents and specifically asked for all briefing notes, memos and emails from senior officials. I've gone through all the batches that were distributed, and there was one little document that had a few emails in it, but for the rest of it there were no other emails. There were other documents and things.
You have 9,000 people in your department, with hundreds of managers. Can you honestly tell me that besides the very few—these few emails—that went to the deputy minister, zero emails have been exchanged between managers on the subject of racism in the department?
There were lots of fancy presentations made. With COVID, everybody is working remotely. I find it difficult to believe that there were no emails, which should have been released in these production of papers.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair, I want to thank the honourable minister for being with us today and staying for the full two hours.
From the work we get in our offices, this immigration file is not a very easy one. This is probably one of the most tedious and difficult files, and I want to thank the honourable respected officials who have joined and the staff at IRCC for the work they do to serve Canadians every day.
I would also like to echo the comments made by the honourable member, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, that the minister has been very accessible to this committee and it shows in the number of appearances he has made. I also want to thank the minister for his recent visit to my riding of Surrey—Newton and for participating and responding to many questions and concerns from those at the grassroots level. The minister's hard work and advocacy are much appreciated, and I look forward to hosting him in Surrey again some time very soon.
My question to the minister, Madam Chair, through you, is this: On April 22, the honourable minister made an announcement that express-entry draws for the federal skilled worker and Canadian experience class candidates are set to resume in early July. With Canada having a low unemployment rate, a high number of vacancies, an aging population and a low work rate, could the honourable minister please touch on the importance of reopening the country to qualified skilled workers?
:
Thanks. That's very generous of you with your comments. It's unnecessary, but I appreciate it nevertheless.
Immigration is an economic portfolio, in addition to being a humanitarian portfolio. In my view, it's never been more important than it is today that we embrace immigration as an economic growth strategy.
I look at the extraordinary economic recovery from COVID-19 that we're living through right now. Despite the fact that we've seen record job growth and the lowest unemployment rate since we started keeping track of those statistics, before the omicron variant hit us at the end of the year, there were 965,000 jobs available in Canada. We cannot fill those jobs with a domestic labour force. If we want to maximize our economic potential as a country to pay for all of the things we enjoy, we need to bring more people into that workforce to kick-start even more economic growth.
The announcement that you referred to included an additional component as well, which was for the extension of post-graduate work permits of people that had recently expired or were soon to be expired, so they'll be able to continue to stay and work in Canada.
With respect to the resumption of the draws for the Canadian experience class and federal skilled workers stream, this is really important. There was a significant pause as a result of the decision that was taken during the pandemic to not process certain streams as we were trying to deal with a closed border to protect the public from the spread of COVID-19. It put real pressures on the system. I recognize that some of these people may have been in Canada and may have been eligible for the TR to PR program instead, for example.
The advantage to that pause is about to reveal itself in a very positive way. When we resume the draws in July, we're also going to be back to the ordinary service standard rather than having an unpredictable amount of time before a person will be resettled as a permanent resident. Getting back to a reasonable volume and a reasonable processing time is not just good to give peace of mind to the applicant but certainty to potential employers as well as to when their new, highly skilled talent is going to arrive at the workplace.
This is going to make a very big difference and is going to allow thousands and thousands of people to come and make a contribution to our communities.
:
I am sorry, Madam Chair, but I really do not have much time.
Minister, that is not what I am trying to claim at all. What I'm saying is that if we didn't have to manage Roxham Road under the safe third country agreement, those officers would be deployed differently and more efficiently.
Don't worry, I know you're a family man and you care about gun violence. Precisely because you care, your government should be aware that the safe third country agreement must be suspended while it awaits modernization. Indeed, the told us yesterday that negotiations were underway with the United States to modernize it.
In fact, Minister, how far along are these negotiations?
How long do you think it will take to reach an agreement? Time is of the essence.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister, for coming to visit us so often and for explaining so many interesting things to us.
[English]
I would like to mention something at the beginning regarding the violence in our cities, Mr. Minister. Part of this happened in my riding. It must be known to everyone that a good part of the responsibility also goes to the provincial police of each area. Everything is not just on the federal side.
[Translation]
Here are my questions.
There are a number of programs and grants that are increasing significantly.
Are you able to tell us about the major steps taken compared to previous years in this regard?
Are there any new tools or pilot programs in the 2022-23 main estimates that you would like to bring to the committee's attention?
Can you tell us how the 2022-23 main estimates will address the links between economic growth and immigration?
Thank you, Minister.
:
Thank you for the question.
The review of measures in the main estimates is a very important function of the committee.
These amounts have not increased by accident. They stem from the decision to increase the number of newcomers to Canada. This is essential, in my view, to promote the national interest. The economy is doing very well, but this will improve it.
[English]
It's not enough to be excellent. We have to increase the margin by which we are excellent compared to competitor economies. The increase in the numbers that you see in the estimates is a reflection of the decisions that we've taken to bring more people here to fill the gaps in the economy so that we can experience economic growth.
There was one piece I was a little unclear on, the second element to your question. You mentioned a pilot program. Was there a specific pilot, or just generally funding?
:
With that, we end our rounds of questioning.
We have to vote on the main estimates 2022-23, and then we will start our second panel.
DEPARTMENT OF CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION
ç
Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$1,539,424,462
ç
Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$30,355,221
ç
Vote 10—Grants and contributions..........$2,126,826,012
(Votes 1, 5 and 10 agreed to on division)
IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE BOARD
ç
Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$254,883,504
(Vote 1 agreed to on division)
As the chair, shall I report the votes on the main estimates to the House?
An hon. member: On division.
The Chair: Thank you.
We will now suspend the meeting for a few minutes and then go into the second panel, where we will have opening remarks.
:
Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
[Translation]
Thank you, Madam Chair.
[English]
I'd like to now turn to address the issue of application inventories and processing times at IRCC.
My view, I think people will appreciate, is that immigration is critical to the well-being of our communities, and that newcomers play an essential role in addressing some of our most severe labour shortages throughout the pandemic and as we enter the economic recovery phase.
The past few years have posed real challenges that would have been beyond imagining just a couple of years ago. Immigration systems around the world have been affected by the pandemic as a result of lengthy border closures, travel restrictions and public health measures that have prevented people from going to work, particularly in jurisdictions where they may not have been able to adjust to work from home as easily as they have in Canada, depending on the line of work.
[Translation]
Yet at the same time we continued to receive applications, leading to frustrating delays and substantial file backlogs. My department is working hard to resolve these issues.
We have made great efforts to mitigate the effects of the pandemic, partly through digital solutions and program innovations.
[English]
Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has modernized its processes by increasing the digitization of files, offering online intake for many lines of business and allowing for greater remote processing of applications despite office closures that forced staff to work remotely where that was an option.
As a result, and in spite of the global pandemic, IRCC made over half a million decisions and welcomed over 405,000 new permanent residents in 2021, which is the greatest number of newcomers in a single year in Canada's history.
[Translation]
This was possible in part because we established a pathway to permanent residency for people who were here in Canada on a temporary status, including temporary foreign workers, students and others making a positive contribution to Canada’s economy.
[English]
Additionally, in the midst of the pandemic, we made a decision to step up with a significant contribution on the world stage to accept at least 40,000 Afghan refugees as well as tens of thousands of Ukrainians.
In spite of this increasingly large and complex workload, we are seeing that we are able to reach some pretty important goals. Already IRCC has surpassed its goal to make 147,000 permanent residence final decisions in the first quarter of 2022, which is double the number during the same period of time in 2021. In fact, from January to the end of March, we made over 156,000 final decisions on permanent residence applications, which puts us on a pace where our ambitious goal this year is well within reach.
To respond to the pressures resulting from the pandemic, to support Canada's economic recovery and to help us address our labour shortage, we're investing an additional $85 million to help reduce application inventories that were accumulated during the pandemic and to increase staff across the department.
[Translation]
This includes applications from international students, workers and visitors, as well as applications for permanent resident card renewals and citizenship ceremonies.
[English]
On April 22, I announced that, at the beginning of mid-June, Canada will extend post-graduate work permits for recent international graduates. Those whose permits have already expired or will expire this year will be eligible for an additional open work permit of 18 months. As well, in July of this year, we'll be ending the temporary pause on express-entry draws, and we will resume inviting qualified candidates to apply for permanent residence.
Across Canada, processing is going to continue for all of our programs with 100% of IRCC offices and service providers open. Capacity limits continue to require the majority of staff to work remotely, but it's not stopping processing or our ability to address the inventory of cases that have built up.
Of our missions overseas, 98% are open. As well, 97% of our visa application centres are open and offering biometrics collection, and 98% of our panel physicians' clinics are open and offering immigration medical exams.
[Translation]
But clearly, there is a lot more work to do. Addressing a backlog of applications is not simply a numbers or a resources challenge—it is a human challenge.
[English]
Every application represents a person whose life is in some way on hold or has been impacted. I know that. Our department is also very aware of the real-life impact that the challenges that our immigration system faces can have on individuals and families.
My view is that we have a duty to resolve these challenges, to do right by those who have hopes of making a new life in Canada and to help to continue to recover from the pandemic. We're committed to helping to resolve these challenges by making the necessary investments to address these challenges that are serious, but are the result of a temporary and exogenous shock to the immigration system.
[Translation]
Thank you for your time.
[English]
With that, I'll be pleased to answer the committee's questions with the final comment that we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the output of our immigration system remains extraordinary.
The user experience can be very challenging. By making the kinds of investments that I've described and some that I'm sure we'll get into in the question and answer period, I do believe we can return to prepandemic standards and have our immigration system on track to support the people who'd like to come to Canada, and as importantly, support the communities that they will call home after they arrive.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
:
Do you know what, though? We try very hard to make sure we run our ship the same way that everybody else does.
You hit on a really important point. One of the biggest challenges I have, to be completely frank with committee members, is realizing that it takes time to hire and train people and get them up to speed. We've received a lot of very serious investments that will help us reach these goals over time.
In the short term, every person I have do one thing is not doing another thing. The explosion of inquiries we've seen from MPs' offices over the last couple of years—and maybe one of our staff could give the accurate numbers if they have them—has really hampered our ability to get back to people in an acceptable way in many instances. We're trying to make decisions that will allow them to say, “Send us the biggest priority cases, and we'll do what we can to get to you as quickly as possible.”
If we didn't have a limit of five cases per day that MPs can send—let's say it was 20—you can expect, unless other very serious changes are made—
:
Thank you to the member.
I view this issue to be related to the question we received earlier. I agree with the prior member that it is not a problem in and of itself that MPs want to reach out to the minister's office. That is normal and that's a necessary part of our system.
It is a function of another problem caused by the closure of the border to protect the public from the spread of COVID-19, which caused us to pivot our strategy to resettle more people who were already in Canada, rather than people who were in third countries. That built up the number of cases of people who wanted to come. At the same time, local offices around the world were sometimes shut down as a result of local public health measures. We've also seen Canada become the world's destination of choice and the number of applications increased. All of this has put pressure on the system, including on the issues of PR cards, because we have a finite number of resources at a given point in time to allocate in certain places.
Now, to your question on the the economic and fiscal update, the $85 million I referred to in my opening remarks specifically includes funding that's going to go to reduce the inventories for PR card wait times.
Mr. Mills is on the line with us.
Dan, if you have the timelines that we expect to get back to a better service standard, would you be willing to share that with the committee?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Dhaliwal.
During my recent appearance at the Afghan committee, we went over some of those challenges in great detail. They primarily relate to safe passage through and outside of Afghanistan for onward travel to Canada.
One of the things that is really encouraging to me is the uptick in the pace of arrivals we've seen very recently. In April, we had approximately 2,500 Afghan refugees land in Canada in that one month. Yesterday we saw just shy of 300 privately sponsored refugees arrive on a flight from Tajikistan. Tomorrow we will have another flight with 330 SIM arrivals, which are those who have come through special immigration measures because of their service to Canada. They will be arriving on a flight from Pakistan.
It's really encouraging to see this uptick in the pace of arrivals. It gives me faith that we're going to be able to more quickly meet our goal to resettle the total of 40,000 we've committed to.
There are still immense challenges on the ground. You can imagine the logistical concerns when you're dealing with a territory that has been seized by the Taliban, where you do not have access. By working with international partners, we are continuing to identify people, have them enter our program and process them. It's really a special thing when you have the opportunity to meet some of these now nearly 13,000 people who call Canada home.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to go back to the last answer that was just given about the objective of welcoming 40,000 Afghans by the end of the year.
The minister said that was his goal, and he also said that to the Special Committee on Afghanistan, on which I have the privilege of sitting as well.
Madam Chair, I would like the minister to provide the committee with a detailed plan of the steps he plans to take to reach his goal by the end of 2022. It could be as simple as a table, but I would like to know the pace that the minister intends to follow to reach his target.
I have asked the same of the Special Committee on Afghanistan, but I have not received a reply to date, as far as I know.
The minister assures us that he will achieve his goal, and I hope he is right, but he should show us his plan. Is that possible, Madam Chair?
:
Madam Chair, I would like to clarify that the target is to take in 40,000 Afghan refugees over the next two years, so in 2022 and 2023.
[English]
There are certain folks whom we'll have a bit more predictability with, particularly when they are people who are approved in a third country. There are still some uncertainties for the people, whom we will not go back on our commitment to, who are still in Afghanistan.
I don't want to sugar-coat things. It is really challenging to move people through Afghanistan. The stories are the most heartbreaking things that I've ever had to work with or live through. The challenges are enormous, and if we can solve these safe passage concerns, we will have more predictability in the schedule by which we expect people to arrive. There are certain groups for whom we have not yet unlocked the pathway to get them out of Afghanistan, which may not be as predictable.
I can't give you exactly to a person month by month by month. I can give you trends. I can give you what's happened already. I can give upcoming expected flights. There will be certain challenges for people who are in Afghanistan for whom there is not yet a pathway to leave Afghanistan.
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In fact, my point is this.
If the government tells us it has a goal that it has promised to achieve, as it has said several times, then logically it must have a plan. A goal of this magnitude is not easy to achieve.
The minister explained very well the difficulty of getting people out of Afghanistan. There must therefore be a plan to support such a goal. However, the committee has not been given any explanation of this plan. No information has been provided on this.
All we would like, in order to be able to do our job properly, is to know the government's plan to reach its goal. As I understand it, it is not even a goal, but a promise. A promise necessarily comes with a plan.
Is it possible to get that plan?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister, in your letter that opens the 2022-23 departmental plan, you write about permanent residents, and you talk about the targets of between 360,000 and 445,000 new residents. Then, when you look on page 22, you can see the results from the prior years and they're always below.... In the last year, I think you said that you achieved that 401,000. The backlog that I've seen sits at 2.1 million people, and that I think includes new citizens.
You put some extra money in for that, but my question for you is this. With 400,000 a year and the backlog of two-million plus, that's five years of processing, assuming that no new people come. How do you explain that?
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Okay. There are quite a few things going on that I think require highlighting.
Dan, you may want to jump in as well.
The numbers you're talking about, I assume, include all different lines of business, not just permanent residency. One of the other things that's really important is that it includes people who applied yesterday. It's normal for us to have hundreds of thousands of cases in any given year come into our system. In fact, we resettled 405,000 last year, and we plan on resettling 432,000 this year.
If I look at international students, we might have half a million applications in a given year, and that's actually a healthy sign. That demonstrates that people want to come to Canada. Where we run into a challenge is when the number of people who are applying each year is greater than the processing capacity of the department. With the investments that we made, I'm quite confident that the vast majority of our lines of business will be back to about the service standard by the end of the year.
If you want more specific details, I'm sure Mr. Mills would be happy to provide them. If you'd like to move on with your questions, we'd be happy to follow up if you want us to submit something in writing.
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Sure. There's an awful lot of work going on.
One of the things that's really important for me to reflect on is that we have to be honest in government about what we do well and the areas where we need to improve. I think in every organization the size of our department and across government we need to constantly be pursuing equity and fairness and anti-discrimination initiatives.
It will come as no secret to members of this committee that we conducted a survey in the wake of the murder of George Floyd to understand what kinds of discriminatory behaviours exist within our own shop. That sort of inward reflection is really important. The lessons that we learned were not happy stories. We had some real challenges.
I've been pleased with the response of the department. That doesn't mean everything is fixed. There are still some real challenges, and by the way, these challenges interfere with the ability of organizations to meet their full potential. When you don't have a welcoming workspace, in some instances it makes it harder to recruit the best and brightest, who might not see themselves in an organization.
The initiatives focus on the policies that both impact the people we serve and impact the people we work with.
In terms of the people we work with, there are initiatives to bring more people into leadership positions within the department and to increase the representation of different demographic groups through all levels of the organization, making sure people have a safe and private place to raise concerns where there will not be fears of reprisal for sharing examples of unsavoury behaviour on the part of their superiors.
In terms of the policies that have an outward impact, we're constantly looking at differential outcomes. I'm actually very much looking forward to looking at all the recommendations of this committee on that particular study. These are the kinds of things that actually lead us to saying, can we be doing more to support people in regions of Africa, like francophone newcomers? A new office we're looking at in Cameroon is going to help with that kind of initiative. Constantly looking at both the internal and external impacts of our policies is something that's necessary. It's in our interests as a department. It's in the interests of Canadians.
I would be happy to provide more information on the back end of this meeting, if you wanted to nail down more specifically what you think is useful.
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Thank you for the question.
In 2020, we have indeed set up a full-time working group, which works closely with all sectors of the department. This working group ensures that they set targets that are linked to the strategy. We have set very concrete targets, and we want to make sure that they are met.
The strategy has several components, including personnel management, service delivery, policy, program delivery and data. We want to make sure that we achieve all of these objectives related to the departmental strategy.
We also make sure that all of our managers are aware of the strategy. In that regard, we have even added a paragraph in the job offer letter to ensure that they understand the importance of not only achieving the objectives of this strategy, but also those of the fight against racism that is promoted within the department.
Many of the people who arrived in January already had a travel authorization. Over 25,000 Ukrainians are believed to have arrived in the country, but we don't know how many of them arrived under the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel program. So it would be nice if the committee could have those numbers.
Whenever we do studies in committee, whether it's on foreign students, racism, or processing times, we hear from many witnesses that IRCC's operations are very opaque, that there's a lack of transparency.
Minister, you have been honest with us throughout the meeting. Do you think that these witnesses are mistaken in telling us this?
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No. I think we can always improve and be more transparent.
You have a department of 11,000 people who serve more clients than most of the rest of the government put together, and we've been growing at a pace that is extraordinary in the last few years.
With regard to the kinds of things we're trying to do, I mentioned earlier that we're broadcasting actual expected times for processing, rather than just service standard times. The ability for people to access information about their cases is something we've now made possible with trackers, for permanent residency, family reunification and citizenship. We'll keep doing more with that sort of thing.
This numbers issue with CBSA is just a function that we don't have that number here today, but we can get that and we're happy to broadcast it.
I wonder if the minister can provide to the committee this information: a gender analysis of the Afghans who have arrived, so a breakdown of women versus men who have arrived to date. Also, could I get the minister to table for the committee the projected timelines of when the backlog of applications for each of the streams will be processed, and to also identify for how many and where the processing is essentially complete and waiting for the immigration levels numbers to finalize those applications?
Further to that, I'm interested in getting the particular breakdowns for the caregivers component. My understanding is that for the caring for children program, the home child care provider pilot, the home support worker program, the interim pathway, the live-in caregiver program and the high medical needs program, in total, there are 47,087 applications in the backlog. Can the minister advise and table to the committee the information on how long he projects IRCC will take to process all of these applications and how many of those applications are waiting for levels numbers for the application to be finalized?
Finally, on the last piece, because I only have two and a half minutes, so I have to get this in. On the extended family members of former Afghan interpreters, literally at 12:12 today, I got the undertaking that I asked for from officials back on March 3. It indicates that 980 applications are in active processing under this stream, zero have been approved, zero are pending approval and zero have arrived in Canada.
Could the minister advise when the extended family members of the former Afghan interpreters will arrive in Canada and for the applications to be processed? There are 300 former Afghans who have submitted their applications, and 65% of them have not even received a G number. The other ones with a G number have not had their applications processed. This is of great urgency.
The last question for the minister is on the Ukraine extended family application process. When can people get the details of that, and when will it actually come into play and be active in terms of processing?
I'll need to review the transcript after the meeting is over, because you had some pretty clear asks.
Just as a word on extended families, this is a group that we made a special pathway for because we want to help. I am starting to see movement on a lot of these files. There have been hundreds of people who have now been approved for eligibility and hundreds more who have been through both eligibility and security. Internally, it looks like there is a lot of movement.
I don't have a specific date, and until I have one, I've told the interpreters who want to bring their extended families here that, when I have a date, I'm going to let them know, and I'll let this committee know when we expect to have those dates when it's nailed down. I don't want to create expectations on a particular date until I know with certainty. Out of fairness to them I'd like to do that.
On Ukraine, I don't expect the details will take us that long, but the overarching point for me—and my priority right now—is to make sure we provide safe haven to people who need it now. People who come under the temporary program will be able to apply for the new family sponsorship when it's set up. Again—
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today.
I have two quick things, Minister.
You said in the first hour that we're still basically a paper-based department. If we're going to get these backlogs reduced and increase our processing times, we really need to get into a more highly digital, highly virtual environment. You said that you had a plan. My first question is, simply, can you give us that plan? Can you provide it to us in writing—what your timeline is, what your costs are and the benchmarks and how it will work—so that we can see how this will improve in the future?
The second part is a quick question. I have some constituents who are applying for their TRVs and waiting for what I think is an excessive amount of time for their security checks. They're waiting seven, eight, nine and 10 months to get their security checks back. I understand that we're outsourcing those, and that may be part of the problem. Can we do these ourselves or be part of that process?
Even if we're outsourcing them, can we reduce that and have a timeline that says we need to get these things back in 90 days or in something that is much shorter than almost a year?
I have a really limited amount of time to answer, so I'll try to cut to the chase. I'm happy to look at the summary of the digitization space. There have been a couple of milestones that have already been implemented, and this is something I'm really excited about. This is an $827-million investment and progress is chugging along. It will transform immigration in Canada and make an enormous difference, and I'm just thrilled to have the opportunity to be the person implementing this system.
On the security checks, the reason that typically happens is that we can't do it on our own, and we rely on information that's being provided by another country, for example. That is a real big challenge, because we're sometimes at the mercy of the ability of another country to provide information to us. It can vary enormously on a case-by-case basis, and I just hesitate to say, without knowing about the specific cases you're referring to, whether that's something we could improve upon or whether it's actually a third party that we're relying on.
We don't have time to get into it today. I would love to speak more about the digitization should we have the opportunity.
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Sure. You want to build upon Mr. Benzen's question.
If you want to see the power of digital processes, let's look at the experience with citizenship. It really was pounded in the early days of the pandemic when we couldn't have people gather in large spaces and have hundreds of people swear their oath at one particular time. Through the combination of a digital application process and virtual ceremonies, we're able to process an extraordinary number of people.
Mr. Mills, correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that in the month of March we had 41,000 new Canadian citizens take their oath of citizenship. This is an extraordinary increase in volume and capacity of the system, made possible with the adoption of technology.
On the TRV issue with respect to Pakistan, I don't have the number in front of me. I could dig it out of this big binder, but I think our team can do it faster than I can.
Dan, do you have that particular number specific to Pakistan?
With that, this panel comes to an end.
I need five minutes from the members after the minister leaves to have some direction on the calendar for next week, but I want to take this opportunity, on behalf of all the members of this committee, to thank the minister and his officials for appearing before the committee and for all of the work you're doing. It's a very difficult file, and with everything that's going on around the world, your job becomes even more challenging, so a big thank you to you, minister, and to all of the officials who are working long hours to make sure that we can clear those backlogs created during COVID.
Thank you, Minister.
We will allow the minister to leave and then we'll have a quick five minutes with the members.
I need some direction in regard to the calendar for next week.
For Tuesday, we must complete the consideration of the recruitment report. If we can schedule to appear on Bill for the first half, then we can move into the report consideration so that we can finalize that report and table it. Also, then, I need some time on Tuesday, once we complete the draft report, to go through committee business to discuss the letter that was requested by the members at the last meeting in regard to the legal opinion from the law clerk. That, the members should have by Monday, if everything goes well and translation can happen, so we can discuss that on Tuesday.
In regard to Bill , we need some deadlines in regard to the amendments. Mr. Seeback can appear on Tuesday for one hour, and then we can have the second hour for consideration of the draft report. Then we will be able to go into the meetings for C-242: four panels with the witnesses and one panel with the officials. That will be three meetings in total, including Mr. Seeback, and then we have one for clause-by-clause. For the clause-by-clause, we need a deadline for the amendments.
Does the committee agree that the deadline for the amendments be set for May 26 at noon? It will be a break week. The clerk will give a deadline to all of the members to submit their amendments by May 26, before we go clause-by-clause.
Go ahead, Ms. Kwan.
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Okay. It is a lot, Madam Chair.
I talked to previously, and he was okay with the idea of appearing for his hour along with officials. That will then save us one hour. If that could be accommodated, he said he was fine with this.
With respect to witnesses, four hours is two full meetings. I wonder whether there's a way for us to work collaboratively to see if we can reduce that time. We may well have a duplication of witnesses. I'm saying this, because I'm really worried about us running out of time. We're still trying to finish the first report. We have finished the witnesses, and we're waiting to do the other report on differential treatment. Then we've started our study on delays in processing.
Madam Chair, I would really like for us to get through these three studies, if we can. We have other items that need to come before the committee as well.
If we can try to find a way to save some time, that's what I'm trying to achieve.
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Thank you, Ms. Kwan, for your input.
We have Mr. Ali and then Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe next. We can have some more discussion on Tuesday on this, because we have a hard stop at 1:10
I just want to clarify for all members that a PMB—any legislation—is always a priority. I want to proceed so that we can finish this clause-by-clause before we rise for the summer break. I am very hopeful that we can finalize the report on the acceptance rates on Tuesday and be able to table that. I don't think we will be able to complete the study on processing times before we rise in June. We have put in a proposal for a visit in regard to this study. We will continue that when we come back in September.
In regard to tabling the report for the differential outcomes, we will see how quickly we go once we have the draft report. That's up to the members as to whether or not we can finish it before we rise for the summer break.
Quickly, we have Mr. Ali, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe and Mr. Hallan, and then we have a hard stop.