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Minutes of Proceedings

43rd Parliament, 2nd Session
Meeting 16
Thursday, December 10, 2020, 11:09 a.m. to 2:10 p.m.
Webcast
Presiding
Iqra Khalid, Chair (Liberal)

House of Commons
• Jacques Maziade, Legislative Clerk
• Philippe Méla, Legislative Clerk
• Émilie Thivierge, Legislative Clerk
 
Library of Parliament
• Lyne Casavant, Analyst
• Julia Nicol, Analyst
The committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to committee business.

It was agreed, — That a proposed budget in the amount of $2,875, for the study of Bill C-6, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conversion therapy), be adopted.

Department of Justice
• Carole Morency, Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector
• Nathalie Levman, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector
• Caroline Quesnel, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section
Department of Canadian Heritage
• Fernand Comeau, Executive Director, LGBTQ2 Secretariat
Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, October 28, 2020, the committee resumed consideration of Bill C-6, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (conversion therapy).

Rhéal Éloi Fortin moved, — That clause-by-clause consideration of the bill be postponed to a subsequent meeting, when work resumes in January 2021.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 5;

NAYS: Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 6.

The committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of the Preamble was postponed.

The Chair called Clause 1.

Clause 1 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 4.

Clause 2 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 4.

On Clause 3,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 15, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Jenica Atwin for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-6, in Clause 3, be amended by replacing line 14 on page 4 with the following:

“(liii.1) section 320.102 (conversion therapy),”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Jenica Atwin and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: — 0;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Fortin, Mike Kelloway, Chris Lewis, James Maloney, Rob Moore, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 11

The Chair ruled that the following amendment was consequential to the previous amendment and therefore it was also negatived:

That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 5 with the following:

“undergo conversion therapy is”

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 3, be amended

(a) by deleting line 14 on page 4.

(b) by replacing line 15 on page 4 with the following:

“(liii.2) section 320.103 (causing an adult or a child to undergo”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Randall Garrison — 1;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Mike Kelloway, Chris Lewis, James Maloney, Rob Moore, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 9.

The Chair ruled that the following three (3) amendments were consequential to the previous amendment and therefore they were also negatived:

That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting lines 1 to 6 on page 5.

That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 5 with the following:

“320.103 (1) Everyone who knowingly causes an adult or a person”

That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting lines 14 to 17 on page 5.

Clause 3 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

Clause 4 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

At 12:04 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:18 p.m., the sitting resumed.

On Clause 5,

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 32 on page 4 with the following:

“to suppress or change a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression. It includes any practice, treatment or service through which sustained efforts are made based on the assumption that certain sexual orientations, gender identities or gender expressions are disordered, pathological or either more or less desirable than others, or that they are otherwise modifiable. For greater”

After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.

Arif Virani moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 32 on page 4 with the following:

"to change a person’s sexual orientation to heterosexual, to change a person’s gender identity or gender expression to cisgender or to repress or reduce non-heterosexual attraction or sexual behaviour or non-cisgender gender expression. For greater"

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Arif Virani and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 6;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 5.

The Chair ruled that the following amendment was consequential to the previous amendment and therefore it was also adopted:

That Bill C-6, in the preamble, be amended by replacing lines 7 to 9 on page 1 with the following:

“entation, gender identity and gender expression, including the myth that a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression ought to be changed;”

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 34 to 37 on page 4 with the following:

“treatment or service that relates to the exploration and development of an integrated personal identity without favouring any particular sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Rob Moore, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Chris Lewis — 4.

Rob Moore moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 37 on page 4 the following:

“(c) to the expression of views on sexual orientation, sexual feelings or gender identity, such as where teachers, school counsellors, pastoral counsellors, faith leaders, doctors, mental health professionals, friends or family members provide support to persons struggling with their sexual orientation, sexual feelings or gender identity.”

Debate arose thereon.

Michael Cooper moved, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the word “to” on the first line with the words “For greater certainty, this definition does not include”

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Michael Cooper and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 5;

NAYS: Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani — 6.

The Chair ruled the main amendment of Rob Moore inadmissible because it rendered the clause unintelligible or ungrammatical, as provided on page 773 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 5 with the following:

“undergo conversion therapy without the person's consent is”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani — 7;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 4.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 6 on page 5 the following:

“(2) For the purpose of subsection (1), no consent is obtained if

(a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the one who was caused to undergo conversion therapy;

(b) the person is incapable of consenting to conversion therapy for any reason;

(c) the person was not adequately informed of the ineffectiveness and risks of conversion therapy;

(d) the accused induces the person to consent to conversion therapy by abusing a position of trust, power or authority;

(e) the person is vulnerable to coercion, manipulation or social pressure due to their age, maturity, physical or mental health, psychological or emotional state, or to any other relevant condition including any situation of dependence;

(f) the person expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to undergo conversion therapy;

(g) the person, having consented, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to undergo conversion therapy; or

(h) conversion therapy is provided as a prerequisite to social or medical transitioning.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Randall Garrison — 1;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Mike Kelloway, Chris Lewis, James Maloney, Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Rob Moore, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani — 10.

Randall Garrison moved, — That Bill C-6, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 5 with the following:

“320.104 Everyone who knowingly promotes or advertises an offer to”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Randall Garrison and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Salma Zahid — 7;

NAYS: Michael Cooper, Kerry-Lynne D. Findlay, Chris Lewis, Rob Moore — 4.

Clause 5, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Salma Zahid — 6;

NAYS: — 0.

Clause 6 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Salma Zahid — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

On Preamble,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 15, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Jenica Atwin for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-6, in the preamble, be amended by replacing lines 1 to 3 on page 1 with the following:

“Whereas conversion therapy causes harm to all individuals subjected to it, and in particular to children;”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it sought to amend the preamble. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition, states on page 774: “In the case of a bill that has been referred to committee after second reading, a substantive amendment to the preamble is admissible only if it is rendered necessary by amendments made to the bill. In addition, an amendment to the preamble is in order when its purpose is to clarify it or to ensure uniformity of the English and French versions.”

The Preamble, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Salma Zahid — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

The Title carried on division.

The Bill, as amended, was adopted on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Randall Garrison, Mike Kelloway, James Maloney, Ramesh Sangha, Arif Virani, Salma Zahid — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill, as amended, to the House, on division.

ORDERED, — That Bill C-6, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at report stage, on division.

At 2:10 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Marc-Olivier Girard
Clerk of the Committee