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Minutes of Proceedings

43rd Parliament, 2nd Session
Meeting 39
Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 4:48 p.m. to 7:54 p.m.
Televised
Presiding
Francis Scarpaleggia, Chair (Liberal)

• Chris Lewis for Matt Jeneroux (Conservative)
• Kristina Michaud for Monique Pauzé (Bloc Québécois)
• Elizabeth May (Green Party)
• Yasmin Ratansi (Independent)
House of Commons
• Jacques Maziade, Legislative Clerk
• Émilie Thivierge, Legislative Clerk
 
Library of Parliament
• Natacha Kramski, Analyst
• Ross Linden-Fraser, Analyst
Department of Finance
• Samuel Millar, Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance
Department of the Environment
• John Moffet, Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch
• Vincent Ngan, Director General, Horizontal Policy, Engagement and Coordination
Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, May 4, 2021, the committee resumed consideration of Bill C-12, An Act respecting transparency and accountability in Canada's efforts to achieve net-zero greenhouse gas emissions by the year 2050.

The Committee resumed clause-by-clause consideration on Clause 21 of the Bill.

The Committee resumed consideration of the amendment of Dan Albas, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing lines 16 to 18 on page 8 with the following:

“21 (1) The Governor in Council fixes the remuneration of the members of the advisory body and appoints them as follows:

(a) six, on the recommendation of the Minister of the Environment;

(b) three, on the recommendation of the Minister of Industry;

(c) three, on the recommendation of the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations; and

(d) three, on the recommendation of the Minister of Finance.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Dan Albas and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4;

NAYS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing lines 16 to 18 on page 8 with the following:

“21 (1) The House of Commons appoints the members of the independent expert committee on the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development and the Governor in Council fixes their remuneration.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown, as provided on page 772 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition.

Whereupon, Monique Pauzé appealed the decision of the Chair.

The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was sustained on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 6;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Monique Pauzé, Brad Redekopp — 5.

At 5:10 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:40 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by adding after line 18 on page 8 the following:

“(1.1) When making a recommendation, the Minister must consider the need for the advisory body as a whole to have expertise in, or knowledge of,

(a) climate change science, including the environmental, ecological, social, economic and distributional effects of climate change;

(b) Indigenous knowledge;

(c) other relevant physical and social sciences, including economic analysis and forecasting;

(d) climate change and climate policy at the national, subnational and international levels, including the likely effects and efficacy of potential responses to climate change;

(e) energy supply and demand; and

(f) relevant technologies.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Taylor Bachrach and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing line 19 on page 8 with the following:

“(2) The independent expert committee is composed of no more than fif-”

The question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by adding after line 21 on page 8 the following:

“(2.1) The Net-Zero Advisory Body must meet the following requirements:

(a) the members collectively must have significant multidisciplinary experience and expertise in addressing climate change;

(b) at least one member must be a health expert with experience relevant to the committee's mandate; and

(c) the majority of the members must have a scientific background.

(2.2) Each member is required to manage their affairs in a manner that will prevent them from adversely affecting the committee's mandate or from being in a conflict of interest.”

The question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 23 on page 8 with the following:

“nommés en vertu du para-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing line 28 on page 8 with the following:

“work for the independent expert committee while absent from their ordi-”

The question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 8 the following:

“(4.1) The Minister must provide the independent expert committee with the resources and staff it needs to conduct its affairs and carry out its mandate.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown, as provided on page 772 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 21, be amended by replacing line 30 on page 8 with the following:

“(5) Members of the independent expert committee are deemed to be em-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Clause 21, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4.

On Clause 22,

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing line 1 on page 9 with the following:

“22 (1) The independent expert committee must submit an annual report”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Raj Saini moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 9 with the following:

“to the Minister with respect to its advice and activities, including setting out the result of its engagement activities.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Raj Saini and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Monique Pauzé, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 8, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-12, in Clause 22, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 9 the following:

“(1.1) The Minister must publish the annual report on the website of the Department of the Environment after receiving it.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 22, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 9 the following:

“(1.1) When providing its advice and preparing its report, the advisory body must take into account a range of factors, to the extent they are relevant to the purpose of this Act including environmental, economic, social and technological and the best available scientific information and knowledge, including Indigenous knowledge, respecting climate change.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Taylor Bachrach and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Monique Pauzé, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing lines 3 and 4 on page 9 with the following:

“Minister’s response

(2) The Minister must make the annual report available to the public within 30 days of receiving it and then, within 120 days of receiving that report, the Minister must publicly respond to the advice that the advisory body includes in it with respect to matters referred in paragraphs 20(1)(a) to (c), including any national greenhouse gas emissions target that is recommended by the advisory body if the Minister has set a target that is different from it.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Taylor Bachrach and it was agreed to on division.

Clause 22, as amended, carried on division.

On Clause 23,

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 23, be amended by replacing lines 9 to 11 on page 9 with the following:

“the Minister, prepare an annual report both on the main measures undertaken by federal departments and agencies and Crown corporations to manage its risks and opportunities related”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Clause 23 carried on division.

On new Clause 23.1,

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12 be amended by adding before line 14 on page 9 the following new clause:

“23.1 (1) Within six months after the emissions reduction plan is tabled under subsection 18(1), the Commissioner must review the plan and prepare a report on their findings, including whether

(a) the greenhouse gas emissions target for the year was established in accordance with this Act;

(b) the measures described will allow Canada to achieve the target for the year in question; and

(c) achieving the target will allow Canada to fulfill its obligations under the Paris Agreement.

(2) Within the time limit referred to in subsection (1), the Commissioner must provide the report on their findings to the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons, who must table it in their respective House.

(3) The Commissioner must make the report available to the public one business day after it is provided to both Speakers.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

At 6:40 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:50 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12 be amended by adding before line 14 on page 9 the following new clause:

“23.1 (1) Within six months after the progress report is tabled under subsection 18(3), the Commissioner must review the progress report and prepare a report on their findings, including any recommended changes to the emissions reduction plan.

(2) Within the time limit referred to in subsection (1), the Commissioner must provide the report on their findings to the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons, who must table it in their respective House.

(3) The Commissioner must make the report available to the public one business day after it is provided to both Speakers.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

On Clause 24,

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 24, be amended by replacing lines 14 to 16 on page 9 with the following:

“24 (1) The Commissioner must, during the two years preceding each milestone year after 2025, examine and report on the Government of”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 8, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-12, in Clause 24, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 9 with the following:

“tainable Development must, at least once every three”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Monique Pauzé — 2;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 9.

Yvan Baker moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 24, be amended by adding after line 28 on page 9 the following:

“(4) The first report must be submitted no later than the end of 2024.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Yvan Baker and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

Clause 24, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4.

Clause 25 carried on division.

On Clause 26,

Ya'ara Saks moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 17 on page 10 the following:

“(2) Any regulation made under subsection (1) must align with the international standards to which Canada adheres.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ya'ara Saks and it was agreed to on division.

Clause 26, as amended, carried on division.

On Clause 27,

Chris Bittle moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 27, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 10 with the following:

“made under subsection 9(3) and any terms of ref-”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Chris Bittle and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4.

Clause 27, as amended, carried on division.

On new Clause 27.1,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 8, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-12 be amended by adding after line 23 on page 10 the following new clause:

“27.1 An application for judicial review with respect to any of the Minister’s obligations under this Act may be made to the Federal Court, and the Federal Court may grant any relief available to it under subsections 18(1) and 18.1(3) of the Federal Courts Act.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Monique Pauzé — 2;

NAYS: Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 5.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12 be amended by adding after line 23 on page 10 the following new clause:

“27.1 Five years after the day on which this Act comes into force, a comprehensive review of the provisions and operation of the Act is to be undertaken by the committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament that is designated or established by the Senate or the House of Commons, or by both Houses of Parliament, as the case may be, for that purpose.”

The question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Monique Pauzé, Brad Redekopp — 6;

NAYS: Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 5.

Clause 28 carried on division.

On Clause 29,

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 8, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-12, in Clause 29, be amended by replacing lines 29 and 30 on page 10 with the following:

“29 This Act comes into force on the day after the day on which it receives royal assent.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Elizabeth May and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Monique Pauzé, Brad Redekopp — 5;

NAYS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 6.

Clause 29 carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp — 4.

By unanimous consent, the Committee reverted to Clause 2 previously stood.

Monique Pauzé moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 2 the following:

Commissioner means the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development appointed under subsection 15.1(1) of the Auditor General Act. (commissaire)”

The question was put on the amendment of Monique Pauzé and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Monique Pauzé — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Ya'ara Saks moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 29 on page 2 the following:

Indigenous knowledge means the Indigenous knowledge of the Indigenous peoples of Canada. (connaissances autochtones)”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ya'ara Saks and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Monique Pauzé, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 7;

NAYS: — 0.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the committee on Thursday, October 8, 2020, the following amendment, submitted by Elizabeth May for the consideration of the committee, was deemed moved:

That Bill C-12, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 34 on page 2 with the following:

milestone year means any of the years 2025, 2030, 2035, 2040”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it proposed a substantive amendment to the Bill by way of a modification to the interpretation clause, as provided on page 773 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition.

Kristina Michaud moved, — That Bill C-12, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 3 the following:

Paris Agreement means the Paris Agreement, which was done in Paris under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change on December 12, 2015, and entered into force in 2016, as amended from time to time.”

The question was put on the amendment of Kristina Michaud and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Kristina Michaud — 1;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 10.

Clause 2, as amended, carried on division.

On Preamble,

Yvan Baker moved, — That Bill C-12, in the preamble, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 1 the following:

“Whereas the Government of Canada has both international greenhouse gas emissions reporting obligations under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, including the national inventory report, the nationally determined contribution, the biennial report and the biennial transparency report, and domestic reporting obligations under Acts of Parliament, including the annual report under the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act and the Minister of the Environment’s obligations under the Pan-Canadian Framework on Clean Growth and Climate Change, and it wishes to improve transparency and accountability in respect of greenhouse gas emissions targets by providing additional domestic reporting obligations;”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Yvan Baker and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Lloyd Longfield, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 6;

NAYS: Dan Albas, Chris Lewis, Cathy McLeod, Kristina Michaud, Brad Redekopp — 5.

Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in the preamble, be amended by replacing line 6 on page 2 with the following:

“change, including by taking Indigenous knowledge into account when carrying out the purposes of this Act;”

The question was put on the amendment of Taylor Bachrach and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Dan Albas, Taylor Bachrach, Yvan Baker, Chris Bittle, Chris Lewis, Lloyd Longfield, Cathy McLeod, Kristina Michaud, Brad Redekopp, Raj Saini, Ya’ara Saks — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in the preamble, be amended by adding after line 6 on page 2 the following:

“Whereas Parliament recognizes that it is the responsibility of the present generation to minimize impacts of climate change on future generations;”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it sought to amend the preamble. As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Third Edition, states on page 774: “In the case of a bill that has been referred to committee after second reading, a substantive amendment to the preamble is admissible only if it is rendered necessary by amendments made to the bill. In addition, an amendment to the preamble is in order when its purpose is to clarify it or to ensure uniformity of the English and French versions.”.
Taylor Bachrach moved, — That Bill C-12, in the preamble, be amended by replacing line 12 on page 2 with the following:

“quires immediate and ambitious action by all governments in”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Taylor Bachrach and it was agreed to on division.

The Preamble, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 1, Short Title, carried on division.

The Title carried on division.

The Bill, as amended, was adopted on division.

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill, as amended, to the House on division.

ORDERED, — That Bill C-12, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at report stage on division.

At 7:54 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Angela Crandall
Clerk of the Committee