:
Mr. Chair, committee members, good morning. My name is Yvan Lebel, and I am the chair of the Saskatchewan Conseil scolaire fransaskois. With me is Mr. Bernard Roy, who is the director of education.
Please allow me to thank you for this invitation and also for the opportunity to tell you about the Fransaskois school community in Saskatchewan and its challenges.
The purpose of this presentation is to make the members of this committee aware of the need for support from the Canadian government to ensure respect for the Canadian Constitution and to provide the Fransaskois community with the means necessary to promote its development and to enhance its vitality.
The situation we describe in the brief shows that our rights under the 1982 Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as well as the Education Act, 1995—on education in French in Saskatchewan—have been affected, and that the means available to the Conseil scolaire fransaskois—the CSF—are still too limited for it to assume its full responsibility.
The CSF is responsible for implementing a French first-language education system in Saskatchewan that is equal to that of majority schools. In addition, the CSF responds not only to the educational component of its mandate, but also to section 23 of the Charter, in the components of cultural community and the identity of our students, contributing to the development and vitality of the province's francophone community.
Early in the last century in Saskatchewan, there were 80 francophone communities where instruction was in French. In 1918, repressive legislation limited French-language instruction to one hour per day. In 1931, it became illegal to teach in French in Saskatchewan. It wasn't until 1967 that the Government of Saskatchewan again permitted a certain amount of French-language instruction in English school boards. When section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms came into effect on April 15, 1982, a group of entitled parents demanded that the Government of Saskatchewan establish a French-language school board to be administered by parents. The Saskatchewan government turned down their demand and an application for a court remedy was filed in 1986. A favourable judgment was handed down in February 1988, but it wasn't until seven years later, in 1995, that the government authorized the school management to be done by and for francophone parents, and it adopted the Education Act in 1995. On November 9, 1998, the CSF was established. So it took almost 15 years after the adoption of the Charter to be able to obtain this minimum recognition of our language rights. There are only about a dozen active francophone communities remaining from the 80 or so that existed at the beginning of the century. Geographically, the CSF must respond to the challenges arising from the fact that the French-language communities are widely scattered throughout the province.
I hope we will be able to come back to reconciliations for past wrongs during the question period.
In terms of enrollments, registrations from kindergarten to grade 12 have almost doubled since 1998. We had 1,565 students on September 30, 2011. The number of schools has grown from 8 to 16. We think that this number could quadruple if we had adequate facilities and resources, comparable to those of the majority schools.
Daycare centres, preschool and full-day kindergarten are indispensable tools for recruitment and the development of children's language capacity and their cultural identity as francophones. There is currently a waiting list of 250 children for daycare spaces.
As for the underfunding of the francophone school system in Saskatchewan, our brief provides examples showing that, since the CSF was established, it has not received the funding it requires to respond to the needs of the current and latent clientele, and that the effects are cumulative. The funding scales do not consider the real costs of the services that we must provide to fully assume our responsibility.
Despite the introduction of a francophone factor in 2002, many legal remedies—yes, Mr. Chair, we are still before the courts!—and a promise of an oft delayed funding formula, which is now expected for 2012, all these means still do not meet the needs of our school system. Unfortunately, it seems that legal recourse is still too often required to defend our rights. But this is really costly for the board and for francophones. This energy could be invested elsewhere, which would benefit our children.
Giving you all the details of the list of services that are underfunded or have no funding would take too long. Our brief provides a list and a few examples of the main areas that justify our claims. We can tell you that, according to our calculations, we are still short about $13 million to make up the difference and meet the needs of our school system, whether it is school transportation, specialized services, technological equipment, training capability or other areas. The funding formula is deficient and is based on the needs of the majority. It is also important to understand our situation, in that we are spread out and isolated, the fact that it is impossible for us to generate economies of scale and much much more.
We submitted 10 recommendations in our brief. I'll summarize them simply by saying that it is imperative to get more involvement from the federal government to support the responsibilities of francophone school boards operating in minority situations. Whether it's in early childhood, specialized services or any other area, the situation requires increased means. Particular attention must also be paid to implementing compensation measures to remedy past wrongs.
Since the recognition in the Constitution of the right to instruction in the minority language and the establishment of our Conseil scolaire fransaskois, a great deal of progress has been made. We must be allowed to continue to build on that in order to enjoy our right fully.
Will we at some point be able to recover from the enormous losses of the past?
The fact that the French education directorate in Saskatchewan's Ministry of Education was recently abolished is certainly not the most positive and encouraging example. Everyone recognizes that provincial governments have exclusive jurisdiction over education. However, we must also recognize that minority-language education is a special case that is protected by our constitutional rights and, by extension, by the federal government's role in protecting official language minorities. The issues are different and the means to develop must be at least equivalent to those available to the majority, while being tailored to suit the realities of the minority communities.
Furthermore, it is imperative—and this goes beyond the provinces' exclusive jurisdiction—that the federal government ensure that favourable conditions are created and that the necessary tools are available to ensure the full development and vitality of minority language communities.
Thank you for listening. We are ready to take your questions.
Thank you, Mr. Lebel and Mr. Roy. I'm pleased that you are here. It's unfortunate that we couldn't do it when you were in town. It would have cost our taxpayers much less. However, the government decided to cancel the meeting. We could have done it, it would have been done.
Before asking you some questions, I need to talk about something else. Here in Ottawa, it's a real free for all during in camera meetings. Since we aren't in camera, I will take a minute of my time to publicly read two motions I intend to present. I'm taking advantage of the fact that we are not in camera and that it's my time to speak.
I gave a notice of motion. So I wanted:
That all of the Committee’s activities be open to the public except where the Committee has the consent of at least one (1) Opposition member to hold an in camera session.
This would prevent the government from dictating in camera sessions. I think that it affects my rights as a parliamentarian, and that it prevents me from working for Canadians.
In the event that we would sit in camera forever and no longer be able to discuss anything before the general public, I propose this motion. So at least the public will know that we do not want to work in camera and that we want to be transparent.
The second motion I'm giving notice about sets out:
That the Committee invite the president and CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada, Hubert T. Lacroix, to a public, televised two-hour meeting on February 15, 2012, given the importance of the CBC/Radio-Canada to the vitality of official language minority communities.
Mr. Chair, the government always boasts about wanting to keep the CBC and about being strong defenders of our public radio. Mr. Menegakis always speaks highly of the CBC, but Mr. Dean Del Mastro, the Prime Minister's parliamentary secretary, said to one committee:
[English]
...it's time that the Canadian government looks at it and says maybe it's time we get out of the broadcasting business and get into investing more money into content? We invest over a billion government dollars, as you know, into a stage, when in fact the private sector would not only make use of that stage....
[Translation]
Given the direction the government is taking, people from the CBC must be brought in and we need to get explanations.
I'm sorry for taking your time. Now, we will go directly to the questions I have for you.
To your knowledge, is the Government of Saskatchewan doing a poor job of managing the financial contribution of the Government of Canada? Are there irregularities or negligence? If so, what are they?
:
I will try to answer as best I can.
Initially, when the board was set up, we received $1.9 million for special measures intended for early childhood education or even francization and facilitation. We are currently receiving $2.2 million from the federal government. The actual value of this amount that we receive, despite the cost of living index, doesn't allow us to do much.
However, I know that the provincial government receives $2.6 million for languages, specifically for first-language education. From $300,000 to $400,000, more or less, is distributed to Fransaskois organizations that support education in French through various means.
We know very well that, in the most recent agreement, amounts of money paid by the federal government for immersion programs went from $900,000 to $4 million. As for us, the increase has not really followed the real needs, and no study has been done to find out what the needs would be and what mechanisms for restitution and solutions would be used.
:
It's a number I heard. Only $2.2 million is being transferred for education. I think it would be helpful for the committee to have an overview of the situation should we want to write a report on this matter, which I hope we do.
Perhaps I should ask the Auditor General to study it, but I will have to wait at least a year or maybe more before he can understand us.
This morning, Mr. Chair, I am also going to put forward one of my motions, which you have notice of, the one that deals with asking the Auditor General to come and appear before us.
As for the one that refers to the headhunter, I'll wait, in case my colleague for should join the committee. I'll wait to give him the opportunity to vote for or against this matter, because he had spoken about it.
I also want to say to the members of the committee—because this session is currently being publicly broadcast—that I intend to support the motions of my colleague, Mr. Godin, this morning, even if we do it in camera. I intend to support them and I want the world to know where I stand, Mr. Chair. It's important that Canadians know where their representatives stand and that we are not going to hide behind closed doors, as this committee has a tendency to do.
Next year is the year of the francophonie in Saskatchewan. Does that mean that the Government of Saskatchewan is going to give you more money?
:
Good morning, Mr. Chair. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
We are pleased and honoured to appear before you this morning. Thank you for giving us this opportunity to talk about one of the most vibrant Franco-Ontarian communities. By that I mean the community of writers and all those who work in the book industry.
My name is Jean Mohsen Fahmy and my colleague's name is Yves Turbide. Mr. Turbide is the director general of the Association des auteures et auteurs de l’Ontario français. I was the president of this association and the founding president of the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien.
As authors and book people, we are active participants in the Franco-Ontarian community, which, as you know, is vibrant and very much alive. It is also a large community. Actually, we now have over 600,000 francophones in the province. We are four times the population of Prince Edward Island, and two-thirds of the total population of New Brunswick or Nova Scotia.
We Franco-Ontarians come from many different backgrounds. We actually have many tools to help us continue to grow. Do I need to mention the French Language Services Act in Ontario and the whole host of community and cultural associations that make the community vibrant? But we must never take this vibrancy for granted. We have to keep looking for other tools that will enhance our vitality. And I must point out right away that, on its journey forward, the Franco-Ontarian community has long enjoyed the support of federal organizations, particularly the support of the Department of Canadian Heritage, the Canada Council for the Arts and Radio-Canada. Your committee has also played a lead role in helping our community, as it has done for other official language minority communities.
The Department of Canadian Heritage has been our partner in countless undertakings. The Canada Council for the Arts has been helping publishers. Radio-Canada has broadcast throughout our province and, at the suggestion of our community, has readily agreed to create a literary award called the Prix des lecteurs Radio-Canada. This award was initially a provincial award, but is now a prestigious national award.
As you know, the federal government created the Roadmap for Canada’s Linguistic Duality in 2008. Under the Roadmap, just over $20 million went to the cultural component, including almost $5 million for literature. We would like the budget for the next roadmap to include a larger portion for culture, especially for literature and books. Why? Because literature and books are tools that our community needs to continue promoting French language and francophone culture in Ontario.
Let me briefly tell you about the history of Franco-Ontarian literature, which is absolutely remarkable. The first book was published by a francophone publisher in 1973, in Sudbury, Ontario. And I would just like to add that Sudbury has played and continues to play a major role in promoting our literature.
After that first book, there was an explosion of creativity. Dozens of novelists and poets feverishly wrote great literary works. In 1989, a group of authors established the Association des auteures et auteurs de l’Ontario français in Ottawa. That’s the association I’m representing here today. In the same year, publishers founded the Regroupement des éditeurs canadiens-français. In 1996, the Ontario government recognized this reality and introduced the French-language Prix Trillium, which is awarded every year to the best francophone writer in the province.
Our association, the AAOF, has 180 members now. That means that we have 180 full-fledged authors in French-speaking Ontario. The association provides them with services in four specific ways: we raise awareness among Franco-Ontarians about literature, we support authors in the creative process, we sponsor promotional activities, and we try to give greater exposure to the works.
Meanwhile, the Regroupement des éditeurs canadiens-français is made up of nine Franco-Ontarian publishers, four or five of which are here in Ottawa. Our writers are of Franco-Ontarian origin, but they also come from all over Africa —Rwandans, Congolese, Cameroonians, and so forth—from the Middle East—Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians—from France and the rest of Europe, from Argentina, from Haiti. Simply put, the Franco-Ontarian literary community is a microcosm of Canada.
I said that our authors write wonderful novels and prestigious essays. I’m not the only one to say that; seven of us have already received the Governor General's Award.
So there is plenty of creativity, but in terms of book distribution and building a strong readership, we have quickly discovered gaps. And that is why, in 2007, we created the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien, managed by the AAOF.
What is this Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien? Well, it brings together representatives of authors, publishers, book distributors, booksellers, librarians and instructors; in a nutshell, it brings together representatives from all economic and cultural sectors of the French book industry in Ontario. So we can see that a very large number of workers participate in the economy of the province.
The Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien did a number of studies and quickly concluded that we had to take vigorous action for our books to reach a wider readership in the community and in our schools.
We came to the conclusion that it was time to develop a book policy for French-speaking Ontario. This is one of the main reasons why we are here before you. We are asking for your support as a committee in our undertakings.
We are currently working on the draft of the book policy. To do so, we have partly drawn on the experience of the two other provinces that already have book policies in place.
The first province is Quebec. Bill 51 on the book policy in Quebec has been in place for nearly 30 years. In some ways, it is a restrictive policy. For example, Quebec schools and public libraries must only get books from accredited bookstores in Quebec, except for textbooks. This immediately ensures a large market for Quebec books in the neighbouring province and it ensures the longevity of publishing houses and bookstores.
The second province is New Brunswick, whose policy is much more recent. It was adopted three years ago. It was initially designed to help the Acadian population of the province, but it was then extended to the two language groups in New Brunswick. It is less restrictive than the Quebec policy; it does not impose a quota system or mandatory purchases, but it strongly encourages all book industry stakeholders to promote the works produced in New Brunswick.
Here in Ontario, our association and our community have a vision of what a Franco-Ontarian book policy should be. It should promote public purchase policies, it should create educational programs to promote reading and studying Franco-Ontarian works, it should set up publishing mechanisms, it should create programs to promote books and reading, and, finally, it should encourage the purchase of books in francophone bookstores in the province. Simply put, all we want is for our governments—the Ontario government in particular—to show strong support for making books and reading accessible.
In light of how jurisdictions work, this book policy will actually have to fall under the provincial government, but we hope and we wish that it will also allow for a sensible partnership between federal and provincial authorities. We hope that Canadian Heritage will continue to help us develop this policy and will help us implement it afterwards.
In that spirit, we come before you today. We know that you will lend us a sympathetic ear, as your colleagues on this committee have done in the past. We know that you will want to stand with us and assist us so that Franco-Ontarian literature can continue to flourish and to be a source of pride for all Canadians.
Thank you for your attention. Mr. Turbide and I are ready to answer your questions.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I also thank the witnesses for coming to make their presentations today.
As a Franco-Ontarian, I must say that it is very important for our culture to survive and flourish. I want to ask some questions, but unfortunately, just like my distinguished colleagues, I also have motions to introduce because I want to make sure that they are made public.
Here is the first motion:
That, by January 30, 2012, the committee publicly justify why it has spent $109,621.18 to conduct an as-yet incomplete study on linguistic duality in Canada's north.
I give notice of the second motion, as follows:
That the committee ask the Treasury Board subcommittee conducting the strategic and operational review to provide, by March 1, 2012, a report on the status of official languages in the strategic and operational review as well as an official languages' status report at the end of the review.
Thank you. Once again, I apologize for taking some time to present my notices of motion.
When I was younger, I was my party's assistant critic for science and technology.
In your studies, have you looked at the question of books being available online? A lot of people these days are buying things like iPads or Kindles. Do you know how many Franco-Ontarian books are available online?
:
Absolutely. That is one of the reasons why we are here.
If I may, very quickly, I would like to sum up our position. The Franco-Ontarian literature available is amazing, but the demand is not there. That is not because people do not want to ask for it; it is because there is no channel to encourage and create the demand in schools.
When our publishers want to place their products in Franco-Ontarian bookstores, they face competition from a very significant number of other publishers, from Quebec, from France or from elsewhere. By contrast, we are relatively few in number. So long as there is no active way to tell Franco-Ontarians, or others who speak French in our province, that we have great Franco-Ontarian books, sales will continue to fail to meet our expectations and bookstores will continue to close.
As you know, our bookstores can buy their books anywhere. It does not work the other way around. French-language bookstores in Quebec cannot buy their books from us because of Quebec's Bill 51. So there is a kind of imbalance between the demand on both sides and the book policy we would like to see.
We do not yet know if our proposal to our provincial government is going to involve a restrictive public purchasing policy or if we are going to opt for a very proactive approach like New Brunswick's. But we would like a public purchasing policy that would allow the Librairie Champlain, and all the others, to remain open.
:
The answer is a resounding “yes”.
Let me tell you the story of Radio-Canada's wonderful Prix des lecteurs. A Radio-Canada host in Sudbury started them there in 2001; he wanted to encourage literature and culture by establishing a readers' prize for Franco-Ontarian authors. So he asked his bosses for permission and they approved it. First, the prize was just for Ontario. Six members of the public were chosen to read books sent in by publishers. A winner was then chosen at a big ceremony. In the first two years, the ceremonies were held in Sudbury and then in Ottawa. They were broadcast on the radio. More and more people began to tune in and to hear our books talked about.
All of a sudden, a lot of other people outside Ontario became interested. I don't know what kind of negotiation went on, but one day we woke up to find that Radio-Canada had decided to extend it across the entire country. So today, six or eight readers, coming from every province, from Quebec, from the Maritimes, from Ontario and from the west, read books from all over the country and debate about them on the radio. There are even short items on television. It's great because you hear about someone in Moncton who has written a wonderful book, or someone else who has produced an amazing essay at Western, and so on.
If it were not for Radio-Canada, none of that would have existed. To answer your question more directly, sir, I should tell you that our broadcaster covers the entire territory. We have Radio-Canada in Sudbury, and in Toronto, and here. Radio-Canada covers the whole territory. People in Sudbury hear about issues that affect Sudbury. People in Toronto hear about issues that affect them. We hear about issues that affect us here.
I can say without any hesitation that Radio-Canada is indispensable in reflecting ourselves, in telling us who we are, what we do, and what we contribute to the country.
:
Thank you for your presentation. I found it very interesting.
I would like to talk a little about CBC and Radio-Canada.
[English]
I want to thank my friend from across the floor for bringing up his reading material from the weekend, because it gives me the opportunity once again to set the record straight as far as Radio-Canada and the CBC are concerned.
As you may very well know, and certainly as all members of the House of Commons who are here with us today know, all members have an opportunity to voice their opinion and discuss what they would like to see. Government policy, however, is made at the cabinet level, and the representative responsible for the CBC in the government is the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, Minister Moore. In his testimony to the heritage committee he was very clear about the government's position on Radio-Canada and the CBC, and I want to read what he said because I don't want to leave anything lingering. We all understand how important Radio-Canada is to the francophone community across this country.
Without further ado, this is what Minister James Moore said:
...the CBC, through their board of directors, has approved their 2015 plan. This is a plan that we support and have been pushing for and hoping that the CBC would implement for a long time. It is: staying in regions; digital technology; and protecting their mandate to ensure that it's all-Canadian programming.
Those are the three things that we wanted the CBC to do. They've done it with their 2015 plan. ...in the budget, they will have enough funding to deliver that plan.
That is the official government position on the CBC, and while it makes good talk, perhaps even—I don't want to use the word “fearmongering”—a good conversation piece to bring up with all deputants who come to the committee here, this is the official government position. Individual members can speak their minds and say what they like, but the government is very cognizant of the importance of Radio-Canada to the francophone community, and, quite frankly, the contribution of the CBC nationally from coast to coast to coast in Canada.
I want to make that very clear.
My question for you is as follows.
[Translation]
As you know, we are studying the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. I would like to hear your comments on the roadmap specifically. Can you share with us some examples of the way in which the roadmap has helped your organization and the francophone community in Ontario?
:
Without a doubt, we are absolutely delighted with it. In terms of the roadmap, we endorse practically the entire presentation that the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française made to you last week. Clearly, because of the cultural development fund, the francophone community in Ontario, and in a wider sense, in Canada, has benefited from funds that were absolutely necessary.
In literature, we were a little surprised to see the national translation program for book publishing in the present roadmap. Although this is an excellent program and an excellent initiative, I do not believe that we formally asked for a translation program.
We support what the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française presented to you when they were here. That is, it would be very interesting, and very much appreciated, to see the establishment of a stream purely for arts and culture in the next roadmap. In that way, more attention could be paid to cultural development, to artistic infrastructure and to artists themselves by keeping artists present in a dynamic pool all across Canada, in cultural industries and in access to the arts.
The Association des auteures et auteurs de l'Ontario has benefited from several of the roadmap's programs. We were able to establish programs that have allowed our artists, writers and authors to reach out to the people, to become involved in community projects, to go and work with the people and to cultivate that appetite for literary creation. It has been absolutely vital for us.
I repeat that, having become aware of the presentation that the Fédération culturelle canadienne-française made, we endorse it. We feel that the roadmap should have an arts and culture stream.