:
Hello, everyone. We're going to call this meeting to order. The orders of the day are to look at supplementary estimates (C) for 2009-10, as well as the main estimates for 2010-11.
We have with us today officials from the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development: Scott Streiner, assistant deputy minister for the labour program; Liseanne Forand, senior associate deputy minister; Karen Jackson, associate deputy minister; and Michael Saucier, acting chief financial officer.
Welcome.
We also have with us, from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, Sharon Matthews, vice-president, and Michel Tremblay, director of financial operations.
Welcome to our committee.
We are so glad you're here. I believe that three of you will be presenting: Mr. Streiner, Ms. Forand, and Ms. Matthews. You will each have five minutes to present and then we will begin our round of questions.
We will begin with Mr. Streiner, please.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My name is Scott Streiner, and I am Assistant Deputy Minister of Policy, Dispute Resolution and International Affairs with the labour program. I am pleased to be here today to speak about the labour program's mandate and activities.
Recovery from the global economic downturn is, as we all know, a central priority for the government, parliamentarians and the Canadian public. The labour program plays an important role in supporting renewed prosperity and the well-being of individual Canadians by fostering healthy, fair work environments where motivation and productivity are high, and innovation is encouraged.
Our efforts are focused on several lines of activity.
[English]
First, the labour program provides mediation and conciliation services to federally regulated employers and unions engaged in collective bargaining. These services facilitate the resolution of differences without a strike or lockout, an outcome important not only to the parties involved but also to the economy as a whole.
Of the 530 collective agreements finalized in the federal jurisdiction during the last four years, 95% were settled without a work stoppage, and this was true even during the fiscal year now coming to an end, despite the difficult economic conditions. Increasingly, the labour program is placing emphasis not only on reactive interventions to resolve conflicts, but also on preventive mediation, which is designed to improve relations and reduce the likelihood of labour disruptions before they erupt.
A second line of activity is ensuring compliance with occupational health and safety requirements. Workplaces where people are safe from injury and occupational illness are more productive and dynamic. Employers and workers agree that every Canadian should be able to return home safe and sound after a day riding the rails, climbing broadcasting towers, or serving customers at the local bank.
[Translation]
Third, the labour program enforces employment standards and provides workers with recourse when the "rules of the game" around pay, leave or hours of work have not been respected. It is important that these rules keep pace with changing realities, such as workers' need to balance employment, family, and civic responsibilities, and employers' need for flexibility in how they retain and deploy their workforces.
During 2009-2010, the labour program conducted stakeholder consultations to explore possible steps to modernize federal employment standards. The results of these consultations are currently being assessed.
[English]
Fourth, the labour program helps workers get compensated for wages owed when their employers go bankrupt or enter into receivership. During the 2009-10 fiscal year the labour program oversaw the expansion of the wage earner protection program to cover severance and termination pay, a measure included in the economic action plan announced in Budget 2009. Thanks to the WEPP, which is delivered on the ground by our partners in Service Canada, almost 18,000 workers passing through one of the most challenging periods of their lives have received compensation since the program was inaugurated in July 2008.
Fifth, the labour program implements employment equity programs and related initiatives, such as the racism-free workplace strategy, which foster inclusive workplaces that can take full advantage of the skills and talents of all Canadians, a goal whose importance has grown as the Canadian labour force has become increasing diverse.
Sixth, the labour program ensures a level playing field for Canadian companies and workers in a globalized economy and promotes Canadian interests and values abroad by negotiating and implementing international labour standards and agreements. In recent years labour program officials have negotiated labour cooperation agreements with all four of Canada's newest free trade partners--Peru, Colombia, Jordan, and Panama.
Finally, the labour program collects, analyzes, and disseminates information on workplace trends and industrial relation trends to Canadian employers, academics, unions, and policy-makers.
Underpinning all of this work is a commitment to excellence in service delivering, in policy development, and in management of the organization and its allocated resources. During 2009 the labour program undertook a strategic review of its activities to ensure, consistent with the government's expenditure management system, that its programs remain relevant and Canadians are getting value for money. The savings resulting from the labour program's strategic review are included in Budget 2010.
I hope, Madam Chair, that this overview of the labour program's mandate and priorities has been helpful, and I look forward to responding with my colleagues to questions from the committee.
Thank you.
:
Madam Chair, committee members, I am pleased to present the 2010-2011 main estimates for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. As you mentioned, Madam Chair, I am accompanied by my colleague, Karen Jackson, Associate Deputy Minister of HRSDC, and Michael Saucier, Chief Financial Officer of the department.
[English]
Madam Chair, HRSD has played a key role in supporting Canadians during the global recession, with a strong focus on service delivery. Our staff has been on the front line helping Canadians cope with job losses and a challenging labour market.
A key component of Canada's economic action plan was to support Canadian workers and their families while developing a skilled workforce. The department has helped the government implement a number of key measures to help Canadians. We've provided a five-week extension to employment insurance and helped long-tenured workers gain further benefits. The work-sharing program was expanded. The provinces and territories were provided $1.5 billion to deliver training to Canadians. Youth, older workers, and aboriginal Canadians were helped with additional measures.
Service Canada did everything possible to ensure Canadians received benefits they were entitled to on a timely basis. We increased overtime, reassigned and hired staff where necessary, streamlined processing procedures, increased automation, and extended hours of service at our EI call centres. We are monitoring the levels of unemployment to ensure quality service through all of our Service Canada centres on an ongoing basis.
With Budget 2010, the department will continue to support workers and their families in implementing the second year of the government's economic action plan. This remains the priority for this year. Budget 2010 noted that $19 billion in new stimulus spending will help consolidate our gains through the economic action plan. Of that amount, $1.6 billion will be invested to strengthen benefits for the unemployed and about $1 billion will be invested to enhance training opportunities for Canadian workers.
In addition, Budget 2010 includes a series of targeted measures to be delivered by our department. For example, we will implement new initiatives worth $60 million to assist more young Canadians while the labour market improves, and we will improve access to EI special benefits for military families and families who are victims of crime.
[Translation]
Let me outline for you the main estimates for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, which will be included in subsequent appropriation bills for Parliament's approval.
The main estimates for HRSDC for 2010-2011 are about $45 billion, a $2.9 billion increase from last year's main estimates. This can be attributed to a rise in operating expenditures and in grants and contributions, mainly generated from priorities in the economic action plan for year two.
Let me elaborate on some of the key spending measures. Grants and contributions, for example, will see increases totalling almost $700 million.
This includes $425 million for the economic action plan to help Canadians in developing the skills and expertise to take advantage of new opportunities once the economy recovers. This funding will go to programs for aboriginal Canadians, apprentices, older workers and students.
And over $106 million to continue the homelessness partnering strategy.
Statutory items will see an increase of $1.9 billion, including:
a $1.7 billion increase for the old age security program due to an increasingly aging population;
a $172 million investment in the Canada student loans program, mainly due to the start-up of the Canada student grant program announced in Budget 2008; and
a $50 million increase to the universal child care benefit based on population growth.
The department is also asking for additional monies under the 2009-2010 supplementary estimates to help us continue delivering programs and services that directly benefit Canadians every day.
The department is requesting a net increase of $191 million for such measures as the Canada student loans program, the universal child care benefit and the old age security program.
[English]
Before closing, I'd like to highlight another key priority for our department, namely, service delivery to Canadians. Especially in these difficult times, citizens can count on Service Canada to have access to their benefits, such as employment insurance, Canada Pension Plan, or old age security. Canadians are at the heart of the Service Canada vision. Service delivery is our raison d'être. We are committed to service excellence in our network of over 600 points of service across the country. Our mission is to provide secure, knowledgeable, one-stop personalized service to all Canadians. We are reaching out, often in remote and rural communities, to serve aboriginal Canadians, newcomers to Canada, or people with disabilities.
That, Madam Chair, is my overview of the main estimates for 2010-11 at HRSDC.
Thank you.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee.
I am pleased to be here on behalf of Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation to review our spending plans for fiscal year 2010-11. As Canada's national housing agency, a core part of CMHC's public policy mandate is to support affordable housing for low-income Canadians and in first nations communities. We do this through a number of programs funded by appropriations included in the main estimates. For low-income Canadians who need help finding housing they can afford, the government invests about $1.7 billion annually in support of almost 625,000 households living in existing social housing.
Additionally, in September 2008 the government announced funding of more than $1.9 billion over five years to improve and build new affordable housing and to help the homeless. As part of this investment, both the affordable housing initiative and the CMHC's renovation programs were renewed at current funding levels until March 2011.
As a result of this extension, these main estimates include funding for the affordable housing initiative for 2010-2011. This spending supports projects such as Building for Independence, an apartment building in Dartmouth for people with long-term mental illness. Thanks in part to this funding, these individuals are able to live on their own in affordable rental units.
Also included in the main estimates is funding for the extension of the federal renovation programs, including the RAP. With funding from this program, Potter's Hands, a project in Red Deer, purchased an old hotel and renovated it into affordable housing units. As a result, 40 people now have their own place to live.
As the committee is aware, CMHC has also been given a major role in implementing Canada's economic action plan, which includes more than $2 billion in funding over two years to build new and repair existing social housing. To ensure that the social housing funds flow quickly, the majority of this investment--more than $1.5 billion over the two-year period--is being delivered by provinces and territories through amendments to existing housing agreements. CMHC is directly delivering the remaining funding for the renovation of federally administered social housing and for the construction and repair of housing on reserve.
As reported in the fifth report to Canadians on Canada's economic action plan, more than 3,500 projects are already under way to improve social housing, including first nations housing, across the country. For example, first nations communities across Canada are able to build needed new social housing and make needed repairs to existing social housing as a result of this federal investment. The Musqueam First Nation in Vancouver was the first to receive federal funding through the economic action plan for new housing construction on reserve. As a result, a number of band members are now able to live in their own homes again.
Continuing to work with our provincial and territorial partners to deliver the social housing investments under Canada's economic action plan will clearly be a priority for CMHC in the coming fiscal year. The 2010-11 main estimates include funding for year two of the stimulus measures.
In addition to these social housing investments, CMHC is also administering up to $2 billion in low-cost loans to municipalities for housing-related infrastructure. Whether we are talking about investing in the existing social housing stock, the affordable housing initiative, CMHC's renovation programs, or Canada's economic action plan, these investments in social housing are creating jobs and helping to ensure that Canadians have access to safe, affordable, and suitable housing that meets their needs.
Thank you again for the opportunity this afternoon to meet with the committee, and I would be pleased to answer any questions.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your presentations.
My first question—and I hope to have enough time to ask a second—is mostly for Ms. Matthews. You mentioned 3,500 projects in terms of social housing. What I am especially happy to hear is that you focused somewhat on First Nations communities across the country, in all regions of Canada.
But what I do not understand is this: you say that you have spent the money and you plan to continue, yet Budget 2010 confirmed that departmental operating budgets would not increase. They will actually be frozen until 2012-2013. I do not understand how you are going to continue spending, how you will strike a balance with planned expenditures given the freeze announced in the budget. The treasury minister has already told us that he plans to make more cuts, especially with respect to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.
Can you tell us how you are going to keep housing construction and conversion at their current level, despite the bad news in Budget 2010?
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There is a reason that I am asking the question, Ms. Matthews. It is really to give the department, as well as my colleagues, a bit of a warning. We can make every effort that is possible but none that are impossible. There is a discrepancy between the money you have—that amount will continue to decrease—and the work you are doing. That is an issue we would like to come back to in the future, and that is why I am asking the question today.
I have another question for Ms. Forand. It has to do with EI. There again, the premium rate will be frozen until the end of 2010, according to the budget that the government announced two weeks ago. The rate would then increase up to a maximum of 0.15% per year.
At the department, have you been able to estimate the projected deficit in the EI fund as a result of the freeze?
On one hand, what do Canadians risk losing? On the other, when do you expect the EI fund to return to the level it was at three weeks ago?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First of all, I want to thank the entire crew who came here to give us this information. The way I see it, the questions that have just been asked are essential to gaining a clear understanding of the government's role in setting the premium rate. Since the new board was created, the rate has been frozen at $1.73, and when it does change, it cannot increase or decrease by more than 15%. We know full well that it will have to increase. The advantages under this program are determined by the government. A chief actuary simply has to determine what amount is needed. These are questions we should ask the minister. It is clear that the board does not truly have a role in determining the premium rate. It is really just a stooge.
My questions have more to do with the supplementary estimates. You must have them in front of you.
Ms. Forand, on page 127, on the line that reads “(S) Old Age Security Payments”, amounts are listed, and we see that there is a credit adjustment totalling $192 million. The next line shows that guaranteed income supplement payments have dropped by $228 million.
Is the budget quietly being eliminated through attrition? What happened to cause a reduction of that size?
Pardon me if I cut you off, but we do not have much time. I understand your answer perfectly; it makes sense.
The government estimated, just as we did, that the total amount of GIS benefits payable to those who qualify to be $3.2 billion. Just as the government did, we knew that, in Canada, 123,000 people who qualified for the GIS did not receive it because they did not know about it. In Quebec, that number was 42,000 people.
ls there a way to know how many of those people are still alive today?
Thank you for being here today.
I want to speak to you about the money for housing that was announced both in the budget and in the stimulus plan. I would guess it will be managed, in some part, by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.
I have spoken to advocates out there, and also looked at my own community, where we applied for two projects and got turned down, and I have found, having talked to people across northern Ontario, that very few, if any, projects have been approved. Then in talking with the advocates, we heard that only a small percentage of the money budgeted actually got out the door, got spent, and was used to build units.
I read and heard in your presentation here today that you believe a lot of that money has gone out the door and that significant projects are up and running. But that's not my experience; it's not the experience of members of Parliament from across northern Ontario, and it's not the experience that has been shared with me by people out there who are watching housing and looking for social housing to be built. They're saying that a very small percentage of that money has actually flowed out.
In the announcements you're making for this year, I'm wondering how much of the new money that's been committed for this year is actually just money you didn't spend last year.
:
The amount of money that we are talking about in terms of the stimulus has nothing to do with budgets in previous years. This is all new money, to answer your last question first, to be clear.
In terms of the money and how quickly the expenditure is going out, if you recall, in my opening comments I said that about $1.5 billion of the stimulus funding is being delivered through provinces and territories. With that delivery, we are doing it under existing agreements, and provinces and territories are actually cost-matching; so we're doing 50%, they're doing 50%. So that money that the federal government is actually spending is being leveraged and doubled in terms of the money that's being spent out there and the number of projects that are getting done and put on the books.
In terms of what was approved in Ontario, because of the cost-matching and its being delivered through the provinces and territories, I really couldn't speak to the Province of Ontario's decisions in terms of a specific project or not. Under the accountability framework, they have the ability to design and then deliver those programs.
We will be auditing and we are monitoring very closely. As a province makes a commitment to a group—for example there may be a group in northern Ontario—if the province decides that the group will get the funding, they'll then submit that information to CMHC and then at that point CMHC will expend the funds and give it to the province so that they can proceed with the housing project.
In terms of actual expenditures, it's important to appreciate that housing is one of those things that take time to deliver. A 100-unit project doesn't get put up overnight. So while we will have expended our money, we will have given it to the province and the province will only get that money when they've actually made the commitment to a sponsor group. And under our accountability framework, they must start construction within three months of getting that actual commitment, for us actually paying for the commitment that they've made. Then they have, I believe, to March 2011 to actually get everything fully expended and fully out the door. And it recognizes the fact that housing.... As I say, a 100-unit project or a 50-unit project isn't going to get built overnight, but it's important to get the work going and started. So in our accountability framework we've built in, once we pay for that commitment made, the province has about three months to get the project under way and started.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I certainly thank the presenters for their various presentations.
There's no question that our economy has been showing signs of recovery. The job numbers we've seen most recently, with 21,000 in the last five of seven months, showed positive gains. That's certainly good, but we've come through a difficult period and things are still fragile.
Certainly, recovery from the global recession is an important aspect for everyone, and HRSD, of course, does play a vital role, not only in service delivery, but I think in supporting many Canadians during this global recession.
I'm trying to put some of this in context. I know that a number of programs were a result of the economic action plan, which has been extended over two years. We're into year two. I'm trying to get some numbers around those programs, if I can.
The work-sharing program was one that was put in place over the last year and has been extended under the new budget. Most recently, I had an opportunity to speak to Mr. Georgetti, who was talking about that particular program and seemed quite pleased with it. It has been working reasonably well with respect to some of the employers and employees I've talked to.
Can you give us some sense of the job numbers that may have been preserved as a result of that program and how many are in place now, and what the department may have done with respect to the eligibility requirements and ensuring that this program is fully flowing? Can you give me some idea about that?
:
Thank you for the question.
There are really two parts to this answer. It was Budget 2009 that first extended across the country an additional five weeks of benefits. We are tracking those numbers. As of this date, over 500,000 workers have benefited from that change. The estimates on the cost of that to the EI program are about $575 million in each of the two years.
Your other reference was, as you said, to Bill , which took another step last fall to allow for longer EI benefits to be collected by long-tenured workers. Depending upon their circumstances, those extensions can range from a further five weeks up to a further twenty weeks. In that case, those changes came into effect in November. Since that time, we estimate that about 46,000 Canadians have benefited from that change.
:
I will answer that briefly, Madam Chair.
The department is very aware of the concerns with respect to literacy, particularly with respect to attachment to the labour force. We have included programming having to do with essential skills and literacy with respect to our labour market program suite of programs, and I can provide further information on those particular programs.
So we are continuing to work, particularly with respect to programs that are delivered in the workplace for workers and people seeking training to get back into the workplace, to ensure that literacy and essential skills can be increased, particularly in order to make people eligible for ongoing work.
I think most of my questions, at least initially, will be directed to Sharon and then I'll have some on the matter of the EI and the labour shortages in the country.
First off, Ms. Matthews, there's been a renewal--of course, a good thing--of the affordable housing initiative and at the current funding levels until March 31, 2011. You mentioned here in your presentation as well some examples--these costs matched and delivered by provinces and territories--and you mention projects like Building for Independence in Dartmouth with long-term mental health illness there in respect to the portable rental units in that sphere of things.
First off, is that a growing need? Could you give me some idea--or maybe you can get back to us later by way of researching that a bit--what is the percentage of the total in terms of housing such as Building for Independence or others for those with long-term mental health illness?
I think it's how we are judged as a society when those most vulnerable among us, through no fault of their own--it's not like they can get skills training or anything that will suffice for them.... But I believe we need to take care of that. I'm just rather curious whether that's a growing need--some reports, anecdotal and research as well to indicate--and what is the percentage of the total?
On the labour issue, in my province of Saskatchewan we have some significant labour shortages. Despite the global recession we've had, some industries are having a rather difficult time finding qualified workers. I think the problem will only get worse as the economy recovers. It seems rather out of sync for some of the opposition parties to be calling for an unaffordable and irresponsible increase in EI when Canadians want to work. Employers, at least in my part of the country, desperately need workers.
I wonder if you can touch on some of the things that have been done and that you anticipate will be done in the days ahead with things like skills training, the targeted initiative for older workers, foreign credential recognition, and so on. We have a large aboriginal population in my province, so the aboriginal component is key. Lastly is youth. We always have to be doing what we can to make sure there are initiatives there too.
:
Thank you for the question.
Even as the government has implemented and is acting on an economic action plan in response to a recession, it is also important to keep our eye on the ball going forward. We know that there are skills shortages even now in certain occupations and professions in certain areas of the country. This presents a challenge going forward as well.
There are a number of things we are doing--for example, the investments in the skills training that the previous questioner asked me about. That money is being transferred to provinces where it's being spent on both EI and non-EI clients. The action plan put out an additional $750 million per year over the two years for those purposes--I've actually found my figures. That's going to provide up to 120,000 Canadians or so each year with the opportunity to upgrade their skills or train for jobs that will be in demand down the road.
You mentioned the targeted initiative for older workers. The economic action plan provided additional investment in that initiative too. The provinces and territories are in the lead in developing the projects, or working in communities to have the projects designed. The bottom line is that it's about trying to equip older workers with the skills that will allow them to fill jobs in demand and remain in the labour force now and into the future.
:
The city of Montreal, for example, has a Canada summer jobs program budget. I will not throw out any numbers as I do not know what the budget is. So, this year, what is happening is that the jobs that were managed by the cities are going back to the overall budget for every riding, without linking them to the budget.
Could you give us some information on that, so we know which major cities have a budget to designate summer jobs? How big are those budgets? What changed this year to make them want to put those jobs back in the budgets of the ridings?
I have another question about the Canada summer jobs program. In 2006, this committee unanimously recommended that the program receive a bigger budget to take into account two additional factors: the increase in the hourly wage, by province—which did not happen—and the increase in the cost of living—which did not happen either.
In 2006, the suggested increase was $13 million. That means that today we should have a budget of $120 million for this item, yet it is at $107 million. I would add that the budget has not increased at all in three years.
Can you tell us how these budgets are managed on a national level, such that we see an increase in the number of jobs without an increase in the budget?
I would like you to provide a written answer, as it may be long.
The other aspect has to do with the budget for post-secondary education for aboriginals, a budget that includes a transfer to the human resources budget. Is the transfer purely administrative and so will not affect the program benefits, or will it change something?
Assistance to aboriginals is currently in the form of grants. Will there now be loans and grants for aboriginals?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The transfer you are talking about, from Indian and Northern Affairs Canada to our department, involves amalgamating payments that our department will send to the Kativik Regional Government. It involves combining contributions that come from two sources and that are sent to a single recipient, that is, the region of Kativik. It is a matter of making a single contribution instead, in order to minimize the administrative impact, especially on the recipient, the region of Kativik.
So there is no change in the amounts or in what the contributions are used for. The purpose of the contributions is to support post-secondary education for the people of Kativik.
Just for a point of record, with the low cost of municipal loans in my riding, one fast-growing municipality was able to take advantage of that. They borrowed $5.3 million to build new waste water facilities for part of the area and also put in another piece to improve the treated effluent that would go back. So for a lakeshore community, that was certainly well appreciated, as well as a brownfield site for the affordable housing initiative. The same municipality took a brownfield site, cleaned it up, and they're going to put a 53-unit housing unit there. That's putting money to good use.
My first question, and this I guess would be on behalf of the constituents of Huron--Bruce, is to do with the senior independence program and the RAP program, both popular programs. There are lots of questions about them. Under the section there, it puts two pieces in. It's for upgrading existing infrastructure, but also for building new, and I wondered if you had a breakdown for both of those, even as a percentage basis. How much would have been for rehabilitating or updating the existing infrastructure and how much would have been for a new build under that?
The second tranche of $45 million...even though it hasn't been expended, that is still part of the first $45 million. It just hasn't been, as an official referred to it last year, “re-profiled” and added to make up $45 million. It's a new $45 million.
And will the qualification for that...? I realize the minister hasn't announced the details yet, but there was an awful lot of criticism last time that you had a $45 million fund, of which $30 million went to two projects and $15 million went to everybody else in the country who didn't happen to live in those two Conservative ridings.
Is there going to be a review of how that is done? Do you know what the details are going to be for the new fund?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses, some returning and some here for the first time. Welcome. It's good to have you.
I and my colleagues around the table are going through some challenging times in our communities, from recession to recovery, and the work-sharing was welcome news, as well as the aspect of the housing strategy.
Coming from British Columbia, in the Okanagan, I know we work closely with B.C. Housing and it has been very successful. I think Minister Finley alluded to over 80,000 units having been built in B.C. in the last few years. So we continue to work on that.
In terms of mandate, as you know, each province sets the priorities. British Columbia is focusing on children, persons with disabilities, and seniors. We have some very successful projects that have been announced, and we continue to look forward to the rollout into 2010 and 2011.
On the question about children, as a grandfather now of a three-year-old, I know the importance of child care and the ability to provide options. I know it's a provincial responsibility to provide child care spaces, but the $100 a month is definitely welcome news, specifically, as you said, with single parents.
It was brought to my attention, actually by a reporter who has joint custody, that our new legislation was welcome. I just want to elaborate on Mr. Savage's point as far as the importance and the amount being committed to universal child care benefits is concerned. What is the dollar value, and what percentage of families with children under the age of six receive cheques every month under this program?