:
Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here. I'll try to keep my remarks brief and leave as much time as possible for questions.
[Translation]
I am very pleased to be here to discuss the Supplementary Estimates for Western Economic Diversification Canada in the company of my colleagues from the other regional agencies, the one for the Regions of Quebec and the Atlantic Canada Opportunity Agency. Unfortunately, Yelich was not able to join us today. However, I am joined at the table by Jim Saunderson, Executive Director, Finance and Corporate Management for the Department.
As you know, Western Economic Diversification, or WD, is the regional development agency responsible for the four western provinces.
[English]
Our mandate is to support economic growth, development, and diversification in western Canada. We do this by focusing on four priorities: technology commercialization, trade and investment, business productivity and competitiveness, and rural diversification.
The partnerships we have forged are an effective means of ensuring that our activities are coordinated with other economic development organizations working in western Canada. Our financial investments support federal, regional, and local priorities.
One of the examples of this is our Western Economic Partnership Agreements that we sign with each of the four western provincial governments and that illustrate our efforts to identify economic development opportunities in each of those areas.
[Translation]
WD has established a reputation as a champion of, and catalyst for, economic growth in the West. Many of our investments on behalf of the federal government—whether it is the TEC Edmonton commercialization facility in Alberta or the CanETREC northern coal research centre in Manitoba—have attracted new industry investment and are supporting the growth of new jobs and business.
[English]
Your invitation to appear today gives us the opportunity to present highlights from our supplementary estimates (B).
We are seeking an additional $62.6 million, increasing our total appropriation to $485.8 million. The biggest component for this is for the Recreational Infrastructure Canada program in an amount of $43.9 million, which is part of the 2009 economic action plan. Another $12.4 million is required for the community economic diversification initiative, which is the government's response to the mountain pine beetle infestation in British Columbia.
Another $3.8 million is
[Translation]
the reinvestment of receipts of repayable contributions collected in the last fiscal year. These resources are largely the result of repayable contributions made by the department a number of years ago. They will be used to fund our ongoing core activities.
[English]
There are some other smaller amounts in these estimates as well, but given the time today, I won't go into those.
As with ACOA and DEC—and they'll no doubt point to the same thing later—our strong relationships and profound understanding of our respective regions position us well to deliver on Government of Canada economic priorities while recognizing and building on the needs of local communities.
Like other regions of Canada, western Canada has been hit hard by the economic crisis of the past year. Many communities have seen their major employers reduce their operations or shut down completely.
Our department has worked extremely hard to deliver CAF and RInC program funding to Canadians in close collaboration with our regional development agency colleagues across the country. Shortly after the programs were launched in May, WD used a single request for proposals for each program. These applications were received by the end of June.
We had a significant volume of applications: more than 1,000 for the CAF program and more than 1,500 for the RInC program. Consistent with the objectives and guidelines that were established for these programs, WD's due diligence has focused on ensuring that projects we fund will be completed within the timeframe of the economic action plan.
Where it made sense in terms of ensuring speed of delivery and meeting program objectives, WD has entered into both formal and informal arrangements with provincial governments to assist the department in identifying and evaluating potential projects. In many cases, provincial governments have provided joint funding, whether as part of a formal agreement or simply to support individual projects.
Municipal governments have also provided funding for many of these projects under both programs.
[Translation]
To date, WD has approved over 200 projects under the Community Adjustment Fund, with total funding in excess of $220 million. These are projects such as Alberta's FireSmart Program—a $15 million initiative investing in projects in forest-dependent communities throughout Alberta to maintain and enhance the province's forests. Over a two-year period, the goal of this initiative is to create up to 1,100 seasonal, or 420 full-time one-year positions, across forestry-dependent communities in Alberta.
[English]
Under the RInC program, WD has approved more than 500 projects for funding of almost $95 million—projects like the upgrade of the skating rink in the village of Frontier, Saskatchewan. The changes will improve safety and significantly lower energy costs for that community.
WD believes that our work with CAF and RInC is realizing the goals for which these programs were established. To date, the CAF program has assisted more than 140 communities and the RInC program has helped almost 350 in western Canada.
We expect to leverage more than $430 million that would not otherwise have been invested in these communities during these challenging economic times. We will continue to monitor closely the progress of these projects and provide regular reporting and accounting to our ministers and to Parliament.
Thank you for your time this afternoon. I look forward to your questions.
[English]
Thank you very much.
My name is Monique Collette and I am president of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. I really appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today in response to this committee's recent motion to discuss the supplementary estimates related to regional development agencies and departments.
I'm accompanied by our vice-president of finance and corporate services, Denise Frenette, and if you'll allow me, I will take a few minutes to provide you with a bit of background on ACOA.
ACOA was created in 1987 to work with Atlantic Canadians to help build a more innovative, productive, and competitive economy in Atlantic Canada.
As a new model for economic development, ACOA was designed to ensure that decision-making resided in the region. This model is characterized by a decentralized approach, with the headquarters in Moncton, New Brunswick; a major office in each of the four Atlantic provinces; smaller satellite offices in each province; and an office here in Ottawa.
Together with our many partners in economic development, ACOA works to strengthen the Atlantic economy. Not surprisingly, given our mandate and program delivery expertise, we were identified, along with our colleague regional development agencies in their respective regions, as the delivery agent in Atlantic Canada for the new national $500 million program known as Recreational Infrastructure Canada, or RInC.
I mention this because the RInC program figures prominently in ACOA's most recent supplementary estimates (B), in which the agency seeks authority to draw down $5.9 million from the total of $33.9 million in funding identified for the delivery of this program in Atlantic Canada.
Other measures outlined in ACOA's most recent supplementary estimates include incremental funding of $10,407 to hire more students through the federal student work experience program and an allowance of $2,000 for an automobile for the Minister of State for ACOA.
[Translation]
We were aware of how critical it was to get the RInC Program up and running very quickly, to commit the funds and ensure they were expended by the deadline date. Thanks to ACOA's network of over 30 offices located throughout the Atlantic region, our well-established relationship with provincial and municipal governments, and our existing and flexible program mechanisms, ACOA was able to quickly put in place the most appropriate delivery process for this new initiative.
[English]
After our usual due diligence on project applications received, ACOA was able to quickly allocate funding to interested communities based on the quality and construction-readiness of their proposals. RInC applications started coming in to the agency in early May, following the launch of the program.
Since the launch of RInC in May, funding has been announced for a total of 125 projects, representing a total federal investment of more than $18.5 million at this time.
ACOA has long-established relationships with municipalities, community organizations, first nations communities, and not-for-profit entities. In the case of RInC, our federal funding has leveraged an additional $43 million for various RInC projects that in total are valued at over $61.5 million.
[Translation]
It is also interesting to note that, currently, 99 of the 125 RInC projects that had been announced are underway, and 17 projects have in fact been completed. Thus far, ACOA has received close to 250 project applications under RInC. This demonstrates that there was a pent-up demand for such an initiative aimed at repairing and upgrading recreational facilities, many of which were built over 40 years ago and were starting to show their age.
[English]
Obviously, with this level of construction activity, employment has certainly been created for Atlantic Canadians throughout the region during the 2009 construction season. We expect to see similar levels of activity during the upcoming 2010 season.
Furthermore, these RInC projects have generated millions of dollars of economic activity as communities and community groups have purchased construction materials and services for these projects. ACOA remains quite confident that all $33.9 million in federal funding identified for the RInC program in Atlantic Canada will be committed by March 31, 2010 and that projects will indeed be completed by the March 31, 2011 deadline.
I would like, if you will allow me, to give you a sense of the kinds of projects that have been completed or are under way.
Under the RInC program in Charlottetown, P.E.I., for example, the Charlottetown Civic Centre is undergoing improvements, thanks to a $60,720 contribution from RInC. This $184,000 project includes construction of a new event planning and staging area, the addition of a new entrance to the trade centre, and the installation of energy efficient lighting. This project has created roughly 15 short-term jobs.
In Halifax, Nova Scotia, the city's Centennial Pool is being upgraded to ensure that it can continue to be a focal point for local residents while integrating required improvements so that it can be used to host provincial swimming events and help train high-performance athletes. RInC funding of $1 million is being provided for this $3-million upgrade. This project is creating roughly 161 short-term jobs.
[Translation]
The Village of Petit-Rocher, in New Brunswick, received $250,000 towards an $860,000 upgrade of its local soccer field just in time for this summer's Jeux de l'Acadie. This project created 35 part-time jobs.
[English]
The City of Mount Pearl, in Newfoundland and Labrador, received $600,000 in RInC funding for a $1.8 million upgrade to its main soccer facility, a project that created 33 short-term jobs.
In close cooperation with the provincial governments and communities, ACOA has moved quickly to bring the RInC program on stream in order to have projects assessed and under way for the 2009 and 2010 construction season. We are confident that RInC investments are helping to put people to work on projects right now in many communities throughout Atlantic Canada.
I will be pleased to answer questions you may have about ACOA's supplementary estimates, including RInC.
Thank you very much for your attention.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ladies and gentlemen,
[English]
We thank you for inviting us to speak to you today about Canada Economic Development's supplementary estimates (B). My name is Guy McKenzie. I'm the deputy minister of CEDQ.
[Translation]
With me today from the agency are Manon Brassard, Vice-President, Operations, and Pierre Bordeleau, Director General, Corporate Services.
[English]
I hope our appearance will meet with your expectations and will answer any questions you may have with respect to increased funding for the Canada Economic Development Agency.
[Translation]
CED's mission is to promote the long-term development of the regions of Quebec, as stated in the legislation, “[...] by giving special attention to those where slow economic growth is prevalent or opportunities for productive employment are inadequate”.
[English]
It states that CEDQ “shall take such measures as will promote cooperation and complementarity with...Quebec and communities in Quebec”.
[Translation]
We provide direct assistance to Quebec's small- and medium-sized enterprises by offering them advisory services and financial support. We also assist regional business communities and the organizations that support them. To that end, we have 14 business offices located throughout the province.
[English]
Said action revolves around two main programs. First is community diversification, and second is business and regional growth.
[Translation]
The Community Diversification Program aims to foster the development and mobilization of communities; to support entrepreneurship and the creation or maintenance of enterprises; and, to encourage the development of tourist attractions.
The Business and Regional Growth Program aims to help enterprises improve their performance and engage in more innovation and export activities, and support the transfer of technology to enterprises.
The implementation of Canada's Economic Action Plan had an impact on our workload, but it did not seriously affect our programming. These initiatives were perfectly in line with our programming. For us, the EAP is essentially the implementation of the Community Adjustment Fund, or CAF, and the Recreational Infrastructure Canada Program, or RInC.
[English]
First, let me say a word about CAF. The community adjustment fund aims to stimulate the economy or at least mitigate the impacts of the economic slowdown on communities.
[Translation]
The Community Adjustment Fund is $203.3 million in funding over two years. One hundred and fifteen million dollars went directly to CAF-Forestry. Quebec invested an equivalent amount. The allocations were spread over seven agreements with Quebec, which is the implementing authority for anything involving infrastructure. Sylvicultural projects received $100 million, and bridge and culvert restoration projects received $15 million.
[English]
CAF-CED is an initiative that aims to boost the economy through adjustment and diversification measures. Eighty-eight million dollars will go toward diversification projects. So far, $48 million is committed to more than 126 projects, creating 3,125 jobs, and there is $28 million for 53 projects currently under study.
[Translation]
As we speak, CED has committed almost 90% of its CAF budget, and almost 12,000 jobs have been created or maintained: 9,837 jobs were created and 1,741 were maintained, as at November 29 of this year.
The Recreational Infrastructure Program, or RInC, was announced in June 2009. Through this two-year funding program, the government will invest $500 million in the upgrading or restoration of Canada's recreational infrastructure. Of this amount, $113.2 million has been earmarked for Quebec. To this amount will be added a total of $280 million from the following partners: $111.2 million from the province; $166.8 million from municipalities and school boards; and, $2 million from First Nations.
CED administers part of the program, and its implementation is carried out by CED for the First Nations and by two government of Quebec ministries, namely the Ministry of Education, Recreation and Sport (MELS) and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, Regions and Land Occupancy (MAROT). To date, of the $78.1 million received, $31.9 million has been committed to 92 projects.
[English]
I will take this opportunity to say a few words about CED responsibilities with respect to the infrastructure program. In Quebec, CED administers the following programs: the Building Canada fund and Recreational Infrastructure Canada.
[Translation]
CED also participates in the delivery of infrastructure programs which will be winding down soon, such as the Infrastructure Canada Program; the Municipal Rural Infrastructure Fund; and the Canada Strategic Infrastructure Fund.
[English]
This finally brings us to the agency's supplementary estimates (B). The additional funds requested, which are $10.8 million, fit very well with our programming.
[Translation]
CED has requested new funding to provide the Municipality of Shannon with drinking water. CED has also agreed to help the Municipality of Shannon complete the extension of its municipal water supply system, for a total cost of $13 million. CED acted quickly, without going through the Quebec agreements, as this was an emergency measure due to contamination of the municipality's drinking water system.
An investment of $3.75 million was necessary to renew sport facilities at Laval University. This funding has been awarded through the Community Diversification Program and will cover most of the costs involved, which amount to more than $6 million. The work includes replacing the synthetic surface of the stadium, the addition of a brand new scoreboard and the installation of three new synthetic surfaces.
CED's intervention in this project occurred before the Canadian University Football Championship which was held in November 2009. Quebec had already invested $37.5 million in the expansion of the Physical Education and Sport Centre (PEPS) at Laval University.
[English]
Third, we received funding for the RInC program operating budget, which is $966,000. Estimates include the RInC program management operating costs, which are $659,000 for salaries and $307,000 for operating costs.
[Translation]
Finally, we received $120,000 from DFAIT and Industry Canada to pay their share of Government of Canada funding for the hosting of the 2012 World Congress on Information Technology.
[English]
I hope these facts are of interest and use to you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen.
[Translation]
We will now be pleased to answer any of your questions.
:
Okay. Thank you very much.
Now I'm going to ask this question to our friends from the Quebec development agency, but it applies to all three of you and, really, it's just for me to understand this.
When I look at your main estimates, at the end, your total was $287.48 million. Then, when I look at supplementary estimates (A), I find the ministry's previous estimate was $287 million. I'm rounding it. Then, when I look at supplementary estimates (B) under Quebec.... Let's go there. In supplementary estimates (A ), we added a bunch of money. In supplementary estimates (A), you got more money from the government, and I'm going to ask you about that in a second.
Then, the total ministry from authorities to date is $435 million, but I can't find that. What I have at the end of supplementary estimates (A) is not $435 million. I have $413 million while at the beginning of this one it says $435 million. I can't follow the numbers.
:
Thank you for the question.
I'll let my CFO speak a bit to the actual volumes of the money.
What I can say is that we're winding down to the back end of that program now. We did a couple of things that I think are very important in the context of this program. At the beginning, there were a number of questions.
Just as one example, a number of first nations groups in British Columbia wanted to make sure that they were engaged effectively in the work related to protection from the mountain pine beetle. So one of the things we did was to actually spend a fair bit of time working with those applicants to make sure that they had structured their applications in such a way that they met the criteria and in such a way that they would get a solid rating by the time they went through the process. At the end of the day, we ended up having in excess of 20% of the total volume of work go to first nations-led applications as a result of that.
This is one of the examples where I suppose there might have been a quicker way to do it, and maybe some of those applications would have gone to some other players in that process, but we took seriously what people said about the importance of community members actually doing a lot of that work and making sure they had an opportunity not only to do that work, but also to develop the skills for the future.
We're quite pleased with the outcome of a number of those application processes, because what's been proven to all concerned is that the people who were successful actually can compete with anybody now, I think it's fair that was not obvious to all concerned when we started out.
So there were some things like that, as well as others related to weather or to availability of labour and such things, that slowed things down. We're now towards the very back end of actually delivering on those projects and making sure they're completed.
My CFO here may be able to provide some more specific numbers, and if we don't have them right here today, we'll certainly get them to the committee clerk.
:
Thank you, Daniel. I'll certainly try to add a little bit of detail.
There was a $200-million mountain pine beetle response, as you point out. About $150 million of that was administered by Natural Resources Canada; I can't really speak to that portion.
But with regard to the roughly $50 million that went to our department, there were two components. The first was the community economic diversification initiative, which I think my deputy described fairly well, and after the process that Daniel spoke to, we now have in place some 148 contribution agreements in communities throughout the interior of British Columbia that will fully utilize the funds that were originally part of that program. We're seeking about $12 million in order to complete that process through this supplementary estimates process.
The second part of the program that we were responsible for was something called the airport improvement initiative, which contributed just over $18 million towards improvements at the airports in Kelowna, Kamloops, and Prince George, three of the larger communities that were particularly affected by the pine beetle infestation. These projects were intended to enable larger passenger aircraft to land to take advantage of tourist potential, and also to take advantage of some air freight potential, particularly at Prince George, which we thought was quite attractive because it is on the great circle route from Asia to North America.
In fact, just recently we've had the first plane actually land at Prince George to take advantage of that new refuelling opportunity. There's a small amount, half a million dollars, in the supplementary estimates to complete that.
The airport improvements initiative is nearing completion, and all the projects on the community economic development initiative are approved. Those funds have started to flow now.
:
As you pointed out, a lot of programs are coming up for renewal. Recently, in departments like Canadian Heritage, delays in funding were being attributed to the fact that many programs are coming up for renewal. I know that is not your responsibility. You are doing your job. We'll see how the government does its job when the time comes to discuss these things. However, it is worrying to hear that many programs are now being evaluated because, in some cases, it could be difficult to continue funding them. We'll see whether the government is willing to continue along the same lines.
Ms. Collette, the Seed Capital Program for young entrepreneurs was created by ACOA in 1997. I am very well acquainted with it, having managed that program in my own area. The program begins on April 1, but the funding was only announced on October 9. Therefore, between April 1 and October 9, CBDCs in New Brunswick and the three corporations in Moncton, Fredericton and Saint John were unable to glean any information as to the status of funding under the Seed Capital Program. As I understand it, any funds that have not been expended by March 31, 2010 might be available later in 2010.
The purpose of this program is to help entrepreneurs start up a new business. But the best time of the year to start up a new business is between the 1st of April and September or October. You don't start up a business in November, December, January or February. It's a lot more difficult then. So, I find the situation somewhat ironic. This is a very good program that helps young entrepreneurs get into business. It is even more important in the midst of an economic crisis, when entrepreneurs are being asked to help kick-start the economy.
At the same time, the organizations responsible for administering and managing the program are being told that, unfortunately, there will be a slight delay in terms of letting people know whether they will receive money or not. As a result, they are being asked not to implement any programs for entrepreneurs, because they don't know what the money is going to be used for.
The announcement was actually made on October 9 in New Brunswick. Prior to October 9, there was a total vacuum. That is unacceptable, because the government has said over and over again that SMEs will be vitally important in kick-starting the economy, and that this has got to happen immediately, not 10 years from now. But this is not a new program. As I was saying earlier, it was first implemented in 1997 to help young entrepreneurs start up a business and create jobs in their community.
:
I can talk a little bit about that, and my CFO might want to jump in with some specific numbers from a Western Diversification perspective.
The critical thing to launch work in the type of role that we have is the certainty of knowing that somebody is going to pay the bills at the end of the day. The member referred earlier to the question of the importance of the supplementary estimates.
For Western Diversification, one of the critical pieces for us back before the summer was to make sure that Parliament had voted the credits necessary so that as Western Diversification we could go out and tell people that we would in fact back up the contribution agreements we were planning to sign with them. Once we sign an agreement--for example, for $300,000 to renovate a facility--they know they can go and do that. They know they can hire an engineer to design it and a contractor to start pulling together the workers. They know they can order supplies, because they know that our credit is good.
The way the transfer payment policy is set up in the Government of Canada, though, we generally don't just give people money right up front. We can do that in some limited circumstances. Sometimes if you're dealing with a smaller organization, that's necessary.
But often with municipalities or universities or other larger players, they know the rules very well. They go out and spend the money and bring the receipts back to us. We compare the receipts to the contribution agreement and make sure that it was in fact what the taxpayers of Canada had expected to pay for and what Parliament had voted for. If that's the case, then we sign the cheque and give the money to them.
But the thing that actually creates the work is that we're able to sign on the dotted line that says, “If you go and do this work, we will reimburse you at the end of the day”. In Western Diversification now, we've approved just under $100 million on the RlnC fund, and we've approved something just over $220 million on the CAF fund. In both cases, it's in the rough neighbourhood of 80%, I guess, in the world of CAF, of the total moneys we had available, and RInC is in excess of... Well, it's at just about 90% in the case of the CAF moneys. Again, that's for the total two-year period going forward as far as March 31, 2011.
:
I know that the Community Futures organizations are successful in my community. For those people who aren't familiar with what they do, they don't only provide or give counsel as it relates to loans. They also provide counsel in terms of building business plans and the rest. They're really an exceptional organization, and this is something that I think deserves a lot of credit, especially since they are community based. They really have a connection with the community, with the directors being community members. We've certainly seen the benefit of that.
I would commend the western folks for having come under common marketing under the Community Futures banner. Up until recently, there were a number of different names for every local agency, and oftentimes that confused people, but the Community Futures common branding has been successful, and I know that it has been very helpful for the general population.
I want to move to a couple of different questions on other programs. The community adjustment fund obviously is something of interest, especially to communities that have been hit hard by the downturn of their respective economies. Maybe this is a broad question to each of the agencies that actually do take responsibility for the community adjustment fund: how is the determination made on what will be funded and what will not?
I just wondered about this in terms of the ranking. Is it first and foremost the...? I mean, do you take a map and say that this is an area has been hard hit as it relates to...? For instance, in my case, we have towns that are exclusively lumber industry towns and they've been hit hard.
Do you do that first and then pull applications out of that? How exactly does that work? What's behind the scenes?
:
It's quite a rigorous process. As you can imagine, we're obviously dealing with large amounts of taxpayers' money. Not only are we dealing with large amounts of taxpayers' money, we're dealing with people's lives and economic interests and, in many cases, the lives and economic interests of communities as well. It has been a very scary time for many Canadians and many Canadian communities, and certainly our staff hear that all the time when they're dealing with these people.
There are two categories of things that we look at. In Western Economic Diversification we did a call for proposals. We got almost 1,500 on the RInC side of things and just about 1,100 on the CAF side of things. The criteria for the program are actually up on our website, so any Canadian can look at that website and see exactly what the criteria are.
I'll just run through some of them quickly, because I think they're important. First of all, for CAF, the project had to be located in rural communities with a single industry. That was one of the program criteria. It also needed to create jobs and maintain employment; in other words, if it was a great project to do something, but it wasn't really going to create or maintain much employment, that was a big knock against it.
The project needed to leverage funds from provinces, territories, or other funding partners. That was a strong preference. I mentioned in my opening remarks that in some of these things, and I think it was in RInC in particular, we leveraged a figure of $430 million from other partners that probably wouldn't otherwise have been there. It needed to build on partnership arrangements that were already in place and the reason for that was to move quickly: don't build new things in terms of relationships with other players if you don't need to, but go ahead with what's already in place. And ideally, it was to provide a longer legacy of long-term economic benefits.
Those were all criteria, but then there were some other things on top of that. First of all, what was being proposed had to be completed by March 31, 2011. If you couldn't get started until next year, for whatever set of reasons, then it didn't fit. What was being proposed needed to make sure that it provided benefits to communities affected by the global economic recession. In other words, again, it was tying this to need. Also, it needed to create immediate and short-term employment, start quickly, be incremental, and not simply replace projects that were going to go ahead otherwise.
We considered all of those things in a very vigorous due diligence process and made sure every project that was being considered met all of those criteria.
I have a question for Mr. Saunderson.
You're one of the finance guys, so let me ask you this question. Now, the members of the committee and the witnesses may not know this, but the far west part of my riding is actually where the prairies begin. I know you don't think of northwestern Ontario as the beginning of the prairies, but the prairies do begin in the western part of my riding, so this is a question specifically about Western Development.
Keep in mind, before you answer the question, that children in the very small town of Emo--that's E-M-O, as you would expect--have tears in their eyes right now. They're crying, and I'll tell you why. They're crying because I had an application in for a water spray park that certainly fit the criteria although it's not being rehabilitated; we'll say it's a new building. This is a community of about 2,500. The community has raised $120,000. They needed $30,000 more to complete it and the application was turned down. After I talked to the minister, it was definite that there was no $30,000 coming. You'd think you'd be able to find $30,000, wouldn't you?
Anyway, my question to you is this. Because the prairies actually begin at Emo and we're really the gateway to western Canada, is it possible--because I see the transfer column--to transfer $30,000 extra dollars from your outfit to the Town of Emo? Keep in mind that every time I go there the children are crying.
:
Yes, certainly. Thank you very much for the question.
So far in the projects we've approved under the CAF program, 51,000 person-months of employment have been created, which we think is a significant volume. Those are the numbers reported to us by the proponents of these projects. We've obviously gone through them with a fine-tooth comb to see whether we think that's the case.
Under the CAF, which is a smaller program, again, it's a number that we think is substantial. Just about 24,000 person-months of employment have been created under that program, for a total under the two programs, in the last five months when we've been putting out approvals on these things, of just under 75,000 person-months of employment.
While those things are important, I would provide a couple of pieces of colour commentary. One of the things we're finding in these two programs is that we're sometimes dealing with a whole clientele that we haven't dealt with before. What's interesting is the number of arenas and facilities we're fixing up that are called centennial facilities, things that were built to celebrate Canada's centennial in 1967. A lot of those things haven't had a lot of attention since then.
We look at the fact that we're doing a lot of this work in rural Canada. The impact it has on these communities is significant. Not only does it mean that people can actually live and work near their families and their homes, it also means those communities, in a bunch of cases, reduce the amount of energy it takes to actually run those arenas. When your annual budget is next to nothing and 90% of it is spent on fixing up roads and picking up garbage, the decision on an extra couple of hundred dollars or a thousand dollars a month for an arena can sometimes be the difference between continuing to make it functional and it not being functional.
It's one of the things we found that is very different in this program. While the employment numbers are certainly very important, one of the things we're getting comments on from people is the impact it's having on their day-to-day lives.
It's a different story from what we get with our normal projects, and I think it's something that all of the staff who have had the opportunity to deal with these things have found. We normally chase after CFOs, business managers, and so on, for information. We have these really fascinating stories, like staff being told by a president of a local curling association who has a $12,000 project to replace the curling rink, “I have to feed my children now, so you'll simply have to wait until next week”. It talks about where we're having an impact. It's a different place from where we normally go.
We know that these projects, when you get into these small communities, have an impact that's completely disproportionate to even some of the larger projects we do in cities.