:
Welcome, everybody, to the committee. It's going to be a really interesting day. We're very much looking forward to hearing your presentations.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we're going to have a briefing on sodium consumption in the Canadian diet. We've had some previous witnesses who have given us some very insightful and rather shocking information. It certainly alters one's thinking on the issue when one hears from the experts.
From the Canadian Society for Nutritional Sciences, we have Dr. Katherine Gray-Donald, who is an Associate Professor in the School of Dietetics and Human Nutrition at McGill University. From Kellogg Canada Inc., we have Christine Lowry, Vice-President. From Nestlé Canada Inc., we have Catherine O'Brien, who is the Director of Corporate Aaffairs; and Karen Young, Director of Scientific and Regulatory Aaffairs. From the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, we have Dr. Peter Liu, Scientific Director of the Institute of Circulatory and Respiratory Health; and Dr. Philip Sherman, Scientific Director of the Institute of Nutrition, Metabolism and Diabetes. Welcome.
We ask that each association make a five-minute presentation, and we'll start with Dr. Katherine Gray-Donald.
I'm representing the Canadian Society for Nutritional Sciences, which is soon to become the Canadian Nutrition Society. My training is in nutritional epidemiology, and I'm an associate professor at McGill.
Today I'd like to cover two points, from the perspective of a nutritionist and member of the Sodium Working Group. The first is that the health benefits of sodium reduction are very well established, and second, the three prongs to the Sodium Working Group program—education, sodium reduction in the food supply, and research—are all necessary components of a strong sodium reduction strategy.
The evidence that sodium leads to increases in blood pressure, a major cause of cardiovascular disease, is indisputable. Our best sources of data come from two types of studies. One is a dosing study, where different levels of sodium are given to the same person and changes in blood pressure are then monitored. The second type of study is the longer-term clinical trial, in which sodium intake is reduced in one group and not in a control group. Such studies, conducted in both patients with hypertension and in healthy subjects, have shown decreases in blood pressure among those randomized to sodium reduction programs.
However, sodium reduction is by no means the only solution to decreasing blood pressure. Weight loss and sodium reduction appear to be additive in their impact on blood pressure. Overweightness and obesity, present in 53% of Canadian adults, cannot be ignored in our messaging lest Canadians think reducing salt is the magic bullet to improving health. It's an important part of the whole problem.
Reducing sodium will require educating the public, changing the food supply, and research to monitor progress. Educational messages are important to sensitize the population to ways of reducing sodium intake. We could add advice to Canada's Food Guide on reducing sodium intake and inform health professionals and the public through many avenues as well.
Certainly some of this is currently being done. We have sodium content information on the nutrition facts labels on processed foods. However, the target on the label is not the desirable level of salt intake for the day but rather the tolerable upper level of intake. This does not follow the labelling for other nutrients wherein we use the desirable level for health as a target. We can thus mislead the public. For example, if one uses the upper limit of the standard, as is currently done, a cup of mystery cereal has 14% of the tolerable upper level amount, but it has 22% of the healthy target set by the Institute of Medicine.
With the current food supply, it is difficult to help consumers have a desirable intake of sodium without asking people to refrain from eating many of the processed foods they're used to and eating out often. This is not very doable. We need to reduce the sodium content of the commonly eaten foods.
Finally, research to monitor progress is essential, as public health interventions sometimes have unintended consequences. Consumers could start using the salt shaker more if we make certain foods less palatable. The best way to measure progress in sodium reduction is through measuring urinary sodium in a sample of Canadians, as this reflects sodium intake over time. Measuring diet is fraught with the difficulties of measuring salt that is added to foods with a shaker and the changing content of sodium in foods.
In closing, both broad-based education on healthy eating and offering Canadians a wide choice of healthy processed foods is essential to improving their health.
Thank you.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee, for this opportunity to appear before you today to discuss this important issue.
By way of background, Kellogg Canada is a wholly owned subsidiary of Kellogg Company. Our head office is in Mississauga, and we have sales offices in Montreal and Calgary. We have two cereal plants: one in London, Ontario, and one in Belleville. Throughout Canada we employ 800 Canadians.
As a leading manufacturer of breakfast cereals in Canada, we know that breakfast cereals contribute significant health benefits to the Canadian diet. Breakfast cereals are a major contributor of B vitamins, iron, and zinc, and in fact, breakfast cereals are the number one source of iron in the Canadian diet for children.
The majority are low in fat, and all Kellogg's breakfast cereals have zero trans fats. Most importantly, many of our cereals are among the largest contributors of fibre in the diet, a nutrient that many Canadian adults and children are deficient in. In addition, there is consistent evidence that people who regularly eat breakfast cereals tend to be slimmer than those who do not.
It is very important to note, in the context of your review of sodium, that breakfast cereals represent 3% of the sodium intake in the Canadian diet, according to Statistics Canada. In fact, as this committee heard at your October 5 meeting, cereals are not among the top 10 foods that contribute sodium to the Canadian diet.
This is not to say that we take this issue lightly. We recognize that sodium is an important issue for Canadians, and we are committed to doing our part to help address it in our products. And we'll be doing our part as an ongoing commitment to our health and wellness.
We were very aggressive in renovating all our food products to ensure that there were zero grams of trans fats per serving. We have already lowered the sugar in a number of our breakfast cereals, and we have lowered sodium levels in a number of our cereal products.
Kellogg Canada is committed to gradually lowering the sodium content of our cereals and to continuing to improve their nutritional profile. For context, I think it's helpful for the committee to understand the range of breakfast cereals we make and their contribution to the sodium intake of Canadians.
Kellogg Canada manufacturers 36 cereal products. About 75% of these products have 230 milligrams of sodium or less per serving. Five of our products have zero milligrams of sodium per serving, 13 have 200 milligrams of sodium or less, and nine have between 200 and 230 milligrams of sodium per serving. However, we do have nine products that have sodium levels of over 230 milligrams per serving. These include Kellogg's All-Bran, which was the subject of some recent media coverage.
At the beginning of 2009, we embarked on a project to gradually reduce the sodium levels in these nine products. I'm pleased to announce to the committee today that we are committed to achieving an initial target of 200 milligrams of sodium per serving for each of these products by early 2011.
All along, our strategy has been to reduce sodium gradually, over time, without compromising taste or quality. Consumers are very sensitive to formulation changes and to drastic changes in the flavour profile of an established brand, especially in the breakfast cereals they know so well. If this is not done properly, consumers may reject the new taste and walk away from the food product. In doing so, they may change to a replacement food that may not have the nutritional benefits of the high-fibre cereal. That's why our plan is to have a phased approach to reduce the sodium.
Although there are many challenges associated with reformulating products to reduce sodium while maintaining consumer acceptance, we remain committed. Progress is being made, and more progress is coming. We're focused on achieving this goal, and we know we will be successful.
Kellogg Canada remains recommitted to continually improving the nutritional contribution of our products for all Canadians. As well, we remain committed to working together with the government, health and professional associations, and members of Parliament from all parties to help Canadians reduce their sodium intake.
To that end, I do appreciate the opportunity to present this information to the committee and I welcome any questions you might have today.
Thank you.
:
Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me here.
[English]
I'm Catherine O'Brien, the Director of Corporate Affairs for Nestlé Canada. I have with me my colleague Dr. Karen Young, who is the director of Regulatory and Scientific Affairs.
At Nestlé Canada we're committed to supporting the health and wellness goals of Canadians by providing high-quality, great-tasting, and nutritious products. Our focus is on offering science-based solutions to Canadian consumers to help make their journey towards a healthy lifestyle easier and more enjoyable.
We share the concerns of the Standing Committee on Health with respect to sodium reduction. We are committed to reducing sodium in our products, educating our consumers about sodium reduction, and partnering with the experts.
As with most nutrition issues, reducing sodium in our diets is a complex effort and there is no one-size-fits-all solution. We must balance the push of science against the pull of the market. Consumers will simply not compromise on taste; therefore, it must be a priority, alongside improved health. We must also ensure that the functional qualities of sodium, such as safety, are also considered.
We're here today to share a glimpse of our commitment to sodium reduction, what we've accomplished, and our future plans.
This is an ongoing process, and while we've made great strides, we know that it is a journey and that we certainly have opportunities for improvement. We've established a policy to reduce sodium in our products worldwide, and in Canada especially we have made significant progress in reducing sodium levels in many of our most popular products. I want to offer a few examples today.
Stouffer's meat lasagna is our number one selling Stouffer's product. The sodium levels have been reduced in most of the Stouffer's products in a phased approach that began in 2005. To date, we've been able to reduce the amount of sodium in Stouffer's meat lasagna by 26%. Not only does the sodium level meet the Health Check criteria, Stouffer's meat lasagna is also preferred on taste versus our competitors' products. We've been able to reduce the sodium and maintain the taste for consumers.
Stouffer's meat loaf is another example. Again, this is a product with very high sales. In a similar fashion, we've been working to reduce the sodium level in meat loaf since 2005 and have reduced the sodium by 22%. Meat loaf is another success story among Canadian consumers, as it also was recently preferred on taste versus that of our competitors. It also carries the Health Check symbol.
Another example from the Nestlé portfolio is Lean Cuisine. Every Lean Cuisine recipe we have has a sodium level of 700 milligrams or less, offering consumers a variety of nutritious offerings made with whole grains, without preservatives, and with two servings of vegetables.
Skillet Sensations is yet another example of a nutritious and convenient choice for families. Many of these Skillet Sensations recipes meet the Health Check criteria, with sodium levels of 720 milligrams per serving or less. We've been working to reduce the sodium levels of the Skillet Sensations recipes, with an average reduction of 25% since 2005.
Nestlé is also a food service provider. Our Nestlé professional business has reduced sodium significantly in many of our own branded products as well as our custom products.
As you can see, product renovation is ongoing, but at the same time, we know it's not the only piece of the solution. Communicating with our consumers is extremely important, and we regularly answer questions, offer advice, receive suggestions, and dialogue with our consumers.
One particularly relevant example is a booklet on sodium that we created and distributed through Reader's Digest to over 140,000 homes and through 1,800 pharmacies across the country. The booklet contains information about sodium, its role in our diet, and how to understand levels in foods. We know this is only a start and that further education is essential.
We're also working with the Heart and Stroke Foundation and participate in their Health Check program. The majority of our Stouffer's products carry the Health Check symbol, which means the meals were evaluated by the foundation's registered dietitians and found to be a healthy choice, with the appropriate levels of fat, protein, and sodium. We also support the efforts of the multi-stakeholder working group on sodium reduction, led by Health Canada, of which our industry association, Food and Consumer Products of Canada, is a member.
The reduction of sodium in our diets is definitely a journey, but a journey on which we have made great strides. We will continue to make progress, to look at opportunities to improve all of our products, and to dialogue with consumers. We know that industry, government, health experts, and our fellow food manufacturers all play a role, and we look forward to continuing to collaborate to address this important issue.
[Translation]
Thank you for listening.
We are now ready to take your questions.
:
I'll take the liberty of going first, since that's how we've made the arrangements.
Thank you for inviting us. I'm a practising pediatric gastroenterologist at the Hospital for Sick Children, University of Toronto. My colleague Dr. Liu is an adult cardiologist at the University Health Network, University of Toronto. We are co-leading, together with multiple institutes of the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, a research agenda to support sodium reduction in Canada, which includes a workshop.
You all have the slides with you, so I'll just go through them.
We are holding a low-sodium workshop to look at this initiative during the third week in January in Toronto, to identify strengths, gaps, and opportunities in research capacity in Canada related to sodium reduction in the thematic areas of health, food science, knowledge to action, and evaluation and monitoring of any policy change in sodium content in foods.
We are identifying a research agenda for sodium reduction to support Health Canada's working group on sodium reduction, and we are identifying opportunities for international and global collaborations in this context, as well as engaging potential research funders to support this research agenda on sodium reduction.
The next slide shows a list of partners we've already engaged, including Health Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, Blood Pressure Canada, the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, the Canadian Hypertension Education Program, the Kidney Foundation of Canada, and two national centres of excellence, including the Canadian Stroke Network and the Advanced Food and Materials Network.
As you know, there is a Sodium Working Group that is tasked with developing and implementing a program of lowering sodium content, with a three-pronged approach of education, voluntary reduction in sodium levels, and research. It's in the research aspect that Peter and I are involved.
As you know, and the next slide reinforces what you've already heard, most of the salt in Canadians' diet is actually in processed foods. The next slide shows factors associated with increased salt sensitivity, and these are populations of vulnerability. The next slide shows adverse effects of excess sodium intake, including heart disease, blood pressure, effects on bones, and an increased risk of cancer.
The next slide, which is titled “Excess salt stored in the skin stimulates, via macrophages, neolymphatics”, is to show to all of you that there are new advances in the control of sodium intake. Understanding basic biologic principles will have a major impact on the sodium in one's diet and on its impact on health, including blood pressure and cardiovascular disease. This fundamental advance was actually published in a medical journal in May 2009. So we know lots about sodium, but not everything that needs to be known.
On the next slide, it's important to note that sodium is involved in a variety of conditions, including stomach cancer, and there's strong mechanistic evidence that salt is a probable cause of stomach cancer.
I'm going to turn it over now to my colleague Dr. Liu.
:
I will continue to the next slide, which is on global perspectives. It indicates that the actions we take today come from research knowledge to date. In regard to reducing salt intake in populations, there is strong evidence that salt consumption is linked with several chronic diseases—obviously hypertension and heart disease, as we heard earlier. Any intervention to reduce population-wide salt intake can actually be highly cost-effective, as illustrated in other countries. There's an urgency to implement the sodium reduction strategies here in Canada, and we need to look for opportunities to be innovative in this type of setting.
If we go to the next slide, in terms of international perspectives, I think this group already heard that the U.K. has aggressively pursued sodium reduction by setting targets through their publication and also setting up an agency to reduce sodium in the population. In 2008, the Institute of Medicine from the U.S. convened a committee on strategies to reduce sodium intake involving various partners, including food manufacturers, the government, and public health professionals. Most impressively, over the past 30 years in Finland, a one-third reduction in average salt intake was accompanied by a greater than 10-millimetre fall in terms of blood pressure in the population and a 75% decrease in stroke and heart mortality.
Indeed, the data to date on the next slide suggest that the relationship between sodium intake and blood pressure is a progressive and continuous one without an apparent threshold. The next slide shows the long-term effect of reducing sodium intake on cardiovascular disease, but I think this committee is familiar with some of this data, and that reducing sodium in the various contexts has been consistently able to reduce blood pressure. Indeed, each millimetre of blood pressure reduction translates into a 2% reduction in the death rate. This is very impressive.
In terms of supporting the effort in the sodium reduction policy working group, we also proposed in our workshop to monitor the effectiveness of sodium reduction as it is taking place. And the parameters that will need to be monitored included the effectiveness of public education programs in samples of the population, and in terms of a sodium content reduction in the various food categories over time, and also sampling of the total sodium intake in the population, and also sampling of urinary sodium excretion in samples, as we heard earlier.
With that, I'd like to thank the committee for the opportunity to present our research agenda to support sodium reduction efforts.
:
I will try to answer that.
One of the points is that when you do make a change in the salt content of foods, it's very important to measure the outcomes—the anticipated as well as the unanticipated outcomes.
The Institute of Medicine report—I see the book there, if you want to look at it—in 2001 actually identified a bunch of gaps in knowledge that really do need to be identified, whether it's a voluntary or mandated change in salt. For example, if you lower salt content in diet, what's the impact on children and their later life—not just the immediate impact, but many years later—and on pregnant women and other vulnerable populations? If there is a change in salt in the diet, our job is to monitor what happens to make sure there is documented benefit, but also to monitor to make sure there is no adverse outcome. We have been working since the beginning of this year to put together the workshop and evaluate if there is a policy change.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I would also like to thank the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.
I am always a little surprised when I hear people say that we're in this situation because consumers want food that tastes salty. That amounts to saying that people want to have high blood pressure and to face a greater risk of cardiovascular disease and stomach cancer. It seems to me that if we weigh the facts, we need to ask people if they really want saltier foods and potentially more serious health problems. Do you honestly think that people will admit to preferring saltier foods?
In my view, high-profile companies like Kellogg and Nestlé should play a greater role and show more leadership in getting information out to consumers. They need to let consumers know that they have reduced or plan to reduce the amount of sodium in their products, because independent rigorous studies show that reducing one's sodium intake immediately and dramatically represents a healthy choice with significant health benefits.
Some advertisements sing the praises of having a flat stomach or of eating certain products to achieve a desired body shape. In my opinion, advertisers should also be encouraging people to cut the sodium in their diets in order to be healthier and live longer.
I want to thank you for being here today and for answering this question.
My next comment is directed more specifically to the Kellogg representatives. According to studies done by the World Action on Salt and Health, it would appear that the All-Bran sold in Canada contains more sodium than the same product sold elsewhere in the world. Given that finding, I think we need to make an even greater effort to put things into perspective. You need to be proactive, demonstrate real leadership and show the world that you are taking effective steps to fight cardiovascular disease and reduce the sodium content in food products.
On that note, I will turn the floor over to you.
:
I can only speak from Nestlé's perspective. We absolutely believe we have a role to play in sodium reduction and education of consumers. We are here today to tell you about some of the things we've done. Is there more we can do? Absolutely.
We have regular dialogue with consumers through our 1-800 line, our website, and so forth. We're continuing to share information on sodium and the renovation of our products through those vehicles.
You referenced advertising. We have an ad campaign now that's really about educating people about total health. It says things like “what's not in your food is as important as what is in your food”. We're trying to get people to look at nutrition in a different way.
From Nestlé's perspective, we believe we are embarking on communications with our consumers to educate them on the importance of sodium reduction. It's a journey, and we're on that journey and always open to suggestions about how to do that better.
:
Thank you very much for your question and your comments.
Similar to my colleague, at Kellogg's we are very committed to improving the nutritional credentials of our products. As I mentioned in my statement, we've been doing this over time. As I said, we've removed trans fats, we've removed sugar, and we're looking at sodium. We identified that, yes, we do have a few products that are over 230 milligrams per serving, and we're working very hard, very diligently, to reduce this.
On your observation that one product is different in one country compared to another, we observed that and noted that, and we started putting action plans together.
I can tell you that we're very committed to reducing this slowly over time. As my colleagues at the end of the table have mentioned, we want to phase it in to make sure the Canadian consumer will accept the changes over time. We are very much committed to that. Anyone who's worked on sodium reduction in food will tell you that there are many technical challenges, but we have a team of researchers and developers and processors who are working to do this. And we are going to get to that level of 200 by 2011, if not sooner. That's something we're very much committed to.
We're also committed to education. I think it is really important. Everyone has mentioned the three-pronged approach of the Sodium Working Group. It's education, reducing sodium in the food supply, and research. The more we can help the Canadian population to be literate, to understand how to read the nutrition facts panel, to make those decisions so that they're empowered to manage their nutrition needs.... I think that's key. For the past two years, Kellogg's has put GDAs on our front pack. We tell consumers on the front what percentage of the daily value of sodium is in one serving of that product. Not only is it on the side panel, we've put it on the front of the box.
We think it's really important, all of us, to be involved in trying to help educate consumers on how to read that nutrition facts panel and to make informed decisions.
:
I would like some kind of plan of action. We hear from industry that they're doing certain things. We've heard, again, from the scientific community that the impact of sodium intake is very significant. We've heard in the past about heart disease, high blood pressure, heart attacks, and you listed some other serious conditions. Now you're telling us it could even be a cause of stomach cancer. We know this is costing us dearly not only in terms of human health and well-being but in terms of cost to our health care system—$2 billion a year.
Frankly, I don't understand why we're still talking about the voluntary approach and why we're buying the line that industry is going to just do it, here are some good products, and never mind the whole picture. If this has been around for so long and you knew about it, why is industry only at this hit-and-miss approach to cutting sodium in products? Why are Canadian products often so much higher in sodium than your company's equivalent in other countries?
We had the example of a cereal—I won't give the name, but it's produced by Kellogg—that is much higher in sodium in Canada than the exact same product in the United States. Is that because you can get away with it here because we don't have tougher regulations, and that in the final analysis you won't get close to the 1,200 milligrams per day, unless you're forced to, because this salt sells your products?
Canadians are taking in 3,500 milligrams a day, and most of it is from packaged products, not from home cooking. What is the industry going to do? If you're not going to do it, I want to hear from others about what should be done to make this happen and happen quickly.
I understand your concern, and I understand the concerns of the committee in everything we've heard today. I can assure you we're committed to working on all of the nutrients of concern and the new science coming forward on elements in the diet to help Canadians live better lives.
As I mentioned, we've had a number of investments and renovations in our products to continually make them healthier for Canadians and to respond to where public health science is going. We've done this in the past, and we'll continue to do it in the future. We are a company that is very much on a journey of improving the nutrition credentials of our products.
We identified one product in particular, and we identified very early that we needed to work on reducing that sodium level. We have that plan in place. We've reduced sodium in other products in past years, and we kept silent on it. We've made many other increases in the nutrition credentials of our products. We do that routinely; it's just part of our plan. There generally isn't a lot of noise that we make about it, because it's something we're committed to.
:
I think you heard there are geographical differences, cultural differences, and there are some differences in palate. Nonetheless, we don't want to rely on that. We want to be able to bring that palate down, and we're going to do that gradually.
We've started that, and we're committed to it. We've made changes in sodium content in some of our products already, and we have a program in place to invest in bringing that sodium down. I can tell you, with full commitment, that's what the company has done, in the same way as we've done it with trans fat. We've also looked at nutrition innovations that we're adding to brands. We have a lot of people committed to improving the products, and we'll continue to do that.
As I said before, we'll continue to invest in education so when consumers are looking at that side panel they know the absolute amount of sodium in the product and what percentage that is of the current DV. If the DV changes, then again, it's communicating to consumers so they're informed and they make those better choices.
:
I can start, and Phil can follow.
In terms of the impact of reducing sodium from a health point of view, it's interesting if you look globally at some of the factors that are producing complications. One, for example, is malnutrition worldwide; that's not a problem in Canada. But the other aspect is high blood pressure. One in four of us in this room has high blood pressure, and as we get older the incidence gets higher. If you can reduce sodium, about one-third of us who have high blood pressure can have normal blood pressure. You may not even need to be treated with medication.
People have done some comparisons. For example, comparing to trans fats, comparing to other types of policy changes, if the sodium reduction impact is fully implemented, it's about three to four times higher than many of the other strategies. So I think this is part of the reason that sodium reduction is a very worthwhile venture to be investing time and effort in.
:
Okay, thank you. I have a couple of other questions.
We have a major problem with salt over-consumption; we understand that. In the material we have, we see that another country that did a major reduction had targets and had government leadership. I'm hearing some good efforts from two representatives of the corporate world, I'm hearing about some research, but I don't see any national leadership on this. I haven't seen any targets, timelines, or any kind of framework other than, “Hey, everybody, this is a problem. Can you do your best?”
Do you think this is the kind of situation, now that we understand the gravity and we're prepared to do something individually, bottom up...? Do you think it would be more effective if there were strong leadership at Health Canada or at the federal government level with measurables, timelines, and stronger leadership and strategic plan?
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all of the witnesses for coming here today.
I've looked at the figures submitted to us earlier by industry officials concerning the reduction in sodium levels. I'm happy to see that they are making an effort to bring these levels down. However, I have a problem with how fast they are acting, and with how drastic their efforts have been on this front.
Mention was made of a voluntary approach for government and industry. I have to admit that I have many reservations about a voluntary approach. We're talking about a public health issue and the government must assume some leadership on this file. It must develop standards. To my way of thinking, the people who market the products may not be in the best position to be involved in a voluntary approach to resolving the problem.
Your expertise is very interesting indeed and you have to express your opinion, but I have my doubts about a voluntary approach. Take cigarette manufacturers, for example. They had statistics in hand on the harmful effects of cigarettes as far back as 1970. Yet, it took a very long time to get them to take any kind of action.
This brings me directly to a question that has been put to you on three occasions, namely why it is that a cereal product sold in Canada contains three times the amount of sodium as the same product sold in Europe. I expect to hear the same argument about taste. I have a problem with that argument. Earlier, you said that we needed to strike a balance between taste and health. I for one believe that health takes precedence over any other consideration and that if the industry sets an example, the public will fall in step without any problem.
As my colleague Mr. Malo said earlier, if people were informed that the extremely salty food sold to them was detrimental to their health, no doubt they would not consciously choose to ruin their health. The industry really needs to step up its efforts to address this problem. I will admit that unfortunately, you have not received much help from the government.
Why is it that cereal products marketed in Canada contain three times the amount of sodium? No doubt you could employ the same production techniques as other countries.
When we take a look at the nutritional contribution of breakfast cereals to the Canadian diet, as I mentioned before, there are tremendous benefits. One of the larger benefits is that we do know that consumers who choose breakfast cereals as their breakfast option in the morning do have lower BMIs than other food choices, and that's important when it comes to obesity.
We heard from my colleague next to me that keeping our weight down is also an important factor in blood pressure. So we want to make sure that when we talk about our cereals and the nutritional contribution they make to the Canadian diet overall, we take a look at it holistically.
And yes, we are very committed and very concerned about reducing the sodium intake in our products. I can assure each and every committee member of that. We have a plan in place, it has been in place for a while, and we are making those changes. We're trying to move as quickly as we can. As well, as I mentioned, we do have five products that have no sodium at all. We have selections out there. We do have 13 products that have under 200 milligrams of sodium.
So we have made a conscious effort over the time. We do have one outlier out there that has been identified and we do have a plan in place. If we can move more quickly, if our results come more quickly, if we are successful beyond what we think, then we will certainly be in the marketplace sooner, but we are very committed.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
And thanks very much to our panel who are with us this afternoon. Certainly we've heard some interesting comments, and they've generated some interesting questions around the table.
I have a couple of questions, for anybody who wants to venture an answer.
Why do we have so much sodium in our diet? Is it strictly for palatability? Is it a taste? Is that why it's there, or is there another reason we have the sodium in the prepared foods?
What about the substitutes? Dr. Liu referred very briefly to substitutes, but there have been substitutes on the market for years that people have used in place of free table salt. Are they not viable? Can they be used in the food production industry?
In terms of research, a lot of comments have been made this afternoon that we really need to have the research done to document the results of a lower-sodium diet. We need to make sure there aren't adverse results of that. Is there hard research out there that shows sodium causing all of these diseases that we've talked about; for example, the high blood pressure? Is there hard research that you're basing those decisions on when you talk about that?
We'll start with those.
:
Thank you for your question.
Absolutely, it has been demonstrated that there is a taste function. But from a functional perspective, salt actually plays a very important role with respect to safety. It is an antimicrobial; it dehydrates many of the pathogenic microbes that are in food. So from that perspective, it absolutely has many different functions, as well as providing texture and so forth.
We have done a lot of research in terms of our development--for example, on incorporating herbs and spices and so forth--to reduce salt levels. We also do a lot of research into the actual replacements for salt. For example, potassium chloride is one of the products we use to reduce salt. However, we have found that if we start replacing too much of the salt, the food has a metallic flavour that the consumer rejects. But we do continue to do a lot of research in terms of flavour enhancers and other technologies that we can use to reduce salt. We're working very actively in that area.
:
If I could follow up on the research question, the evidence comes from three lines. The first is the association, which is not cause and effect. That is, if you actually monitor the sodium intake in a country and the average blood pressure, you can actually line them up. So there is a direct relationship.
The next level of evidence, which is more convincing, are the studies that were mentioned earlier. You take a population and actually reduce sodium in one group and keep the other group doing the same, and you can actually demonstrate that in fact there is reduction in the blood pressure.
The third aspect is the long-term consequence in terms of countries that have done this. The best example is Finland. But the challenge there is that there were many things done at the same time, so how much did the sodium reduction actually contribute to this?
The positive aspect from that is that in most of the studies that carried this out, the benefit you see in terms of heart disease is actually a lot more than you would expect from just blood pressure reduction alone. The fact that you are actually engaging the whole population in this type of effort has many other dividends that appear to pay off at the same time.
Those are the types of evidence. As we do this in Canada, we have to make sure we're actually reaching the goals we are looking for.
:
Thank you very much, and thank you all for being here today.
I'm sitting here and listening somewhat in bewilderment. I'm substituting in, as you can see, so I've not been part of the earlier discussion, but what I'm hearing is that the reduction of sodium makes a dramatic difference. I'm hearing that there don't seem to be clear targets, although we just heard a figure of trying to reach 2,300 milligrams in 2016.
I'm making notes as you're speaking. Somebody said “when the results come more quickly”. That was one comment. Engaging the whole population was another.
I'm struck by the discrepancy in the urgency of reducing sodium, the importance of it as a health preventative, and the lack of goals or targets set by government, coupled with the lack of public information that goes out there. And how do you marry it all? I would be interested in hearing your comments.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, witnesses, for being here today.
I feel very lucky today, because I'm just filling in and I'm so happy to be exposed to such a great conversation and a great topic.
I realize we have a lot of work yet to do, but when we talk about there having been 30 years in which nothing was done, I'm so happy to be part of a government that is starting to do something and to see people like you getting ready and the industry realizing how much we need to do.
As a former educator, I realize that a lot of it has to come from education. Do you have any plans or do you see anything going forth that will specifically help to educate our people, maybe through media or some such means? Could you perhaps elaborate a little bit on that?
Certainly, media has come up. We've seen examples of a media campaign in a health region that was very good. We need to engage the experts, because that is something you have to do really well, and yes, we're certainly looking to media.
The other part I need to bring up, maybe more to my committee because we haven't discussed it very much, is actually the health professionals. There is a lot being written now. If you read the Canadian Medical Association Journal, there's a lot going out to the doctors, there's a lot going out to the dieticians, but we need to really make sure that's there too, so that when people go to their doctor and say, “Well, how important is this salt stuff?” they get the right answer.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I don't have quite the patience that Tilly does. If you're not prepared to agree to some sort of regulated standards and mandatory targets, I'd like to see what else you might be prepared to do, because I think Canadian consumers are way ahead of you. They would really like to know what they're eating. They've been listening to this health information for years and expect some action.
I just want to say that I doubt that in fact trans fats would have been acted on without that kind of outcry from Parliament and the public. In fact, the numbers didn't start to change until a couple of years ago, when Parliament threatened mandatory action. For you to say that you're taking action on a voluntary basis, it's just not evident.
In fact, if you had been listening to the health experts over the last 30 years who have been talking about sodium, you would have gradually voluntarily reduced your sodium content a few percentages, a few milligrams, every year in all your products. You wouldn't be talking today about having to suddenly deal with this leaping from 3,500 milligrams on a daily basis to 1,200 and only coming up with 2,300. I think you have to come up with more than that.
I'd like to ask two questions, quickly.
To the CIHR folks, I wonder why you're not taking a more proactive position. I'm almost tempted to ask, as I did in the House today, if there's anyone from the food manufacturing business on your board who might be tempering your remarks.
And I want to ask Christine and Catherine that if they won't agree to mandatory targets, will they at least listen to consumers and agree to mandatory front-of-pack warning labels for high-sodium products? Surely you can't disagree with that since Canadians want to know what they're eating. Will you agree at least that the recommended daily value for sodium specified in the food and drug regulations should be in fact 1,500 and not 2,400, even if you're not prepared to move on targets? Would you agree that serving sizes and nutrition facts—
:
Madam Chair, earlier our NDP colleague requested that parts of the testimony given by a witness be stricken from the record. I would just like to give you two reasons why I object to this.
Firstly, when we invite witnesses here, we must be open-minded and accept their full testimony. I wouldn't want us to become censors.
Secondly, the witness appeared to give us some examples. Even when the sodium content is reduced, consumers seem to prefer these products.
We would like to see more companies, more manufacturers reduce the amount of sodium in products that consumers still enjoy in spite of everything. When we realize that 75% of all of the sodium consumed comes from processed products, examples like these should make people want to... In my opinion, Ms. Obrien's comments should not be stricken from the record.