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HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION


JOURNALS

No. 120

Tuesday, September 16, 2003

10:00 a.m.



Prayers

Daily Routine Of Business

Tabling of Documents

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, — Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions:

— Nos. 372-1613, 372-1620 and 372-1622 concerning the fishing industry. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-22-13;

— No. 372-1621 concerning the Canadian Coast Guard. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-32-12;

— Nos. 372-1636 and 372-1651 to 372-1655 concerning gun control. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-42-06;

— No. 372-1657 concerning pornography. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-25-30;

— No. 372-1658 concerning environmental assessment and review. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-87-01;

— No. 372-1669 concerning the Canada Post Corporation. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-1-20;

— No. 372-1682 concerning the Department of National Defence. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-88-01;

— No. 372-1699 concerning reproduction technologies. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-60-02;

— No. 372-1700 concerning the Robert Latimer case. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-38-02;

— No. 372-1705 concerning nuclear weapons. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-74-03;

— Nos. 372-1713 and 372-1714 concerning children's rights. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-43-04;

— No. 372-1745 concerning poverty. — Sessional Paper No. 8545-372-89-01.

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

— by Mr. Williams (St. Albert) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1909);

— by Mr. Jackson (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1910), one concerning marriage (No. 372-1911) and one concerning the National Missile Defence Program (No. 372-1912);

— by Mr. Peric (Cambridge) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1913), two concerning marriage (Nos. 372-1914 and 372-1915) and one concerning pornography (No. 372-1916);

— by Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1917);

— by Mr. Hill (Macleod) , one concerning marriage (No. 372-1918);

— by Mr. Mayfield (Cariboo—Chilcotin) , one concerning marriage (No. 372-1919).

Questions on Order Paper

Pursuant to Standing Order 39(7), Mr. Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) presented the returns to the following questions made into Orders for Return:

Q-34 — Mr. Rajotte (Edmonton Southwest) — Concerning the Small Business Loans Program since 1993: (a) what have been its revenues and expenditures; (b) how many loans were made annually; (c) what was the total value of those loans; (d) how many claims have been made annually; (e) what was the total value of the claims made annually; (f) what is the breakdown by province of loans made and the claims made; and (g) what is the breakdown by financial institution of loans made and the claims made? — Sessional Paper No. 8555-372-34.


Q-230 — Mr. Sauvageau (Repentigny) — For the 2002-2003, 2003-2004 and 2004-2005 fiscal years, what are the best estimates of funds to be disbursed (in subsidies and contributions) by each of the government's departments and quasi- or non-governmental agencies subsidized by the government to: (a) support the anglophone community in Quebec; (b) support francophone communities outside Quebec; and (c) in each case, to fund what needs? — Sessional Paper No. 8555-372-230.

Business of Supply

The Order was read for the consideration of the Business of Supply.

Mr. Harper (Calgary Southwest) , seconded by Mr. Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast) , moved, — That, in the opinion of this House, it is necessary, in light of public debate around recent court decisions, to reaffirm that marriage is and should remain the union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others, and that Parliament take all necessary steps within the jurisdiction of the Parliament of Canada to preserve this definition of marriage in Canada.

Debate arose thereon.

Mr. Toews (Provencher) , seconded by Mr. Sorenson (Crowfoot) , moved the following amendment, — That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word “others ”.

Debate arose thereon.

Statements By Members

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

Oral Questions

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

Business of Supply

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Harper (Calgary Southwest) , seconded by Mr. Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast) , in relation to the Business of Supply;

And of the amendment of Mr. Toews (Provencher) , seconded by Mr. Sorenson (Crowfoot) .

The debate continued.

Motions

By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That the recorded division on Bill C-34, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence, deferred until Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders, be further deferred until Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders.


By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That, during the debate on Bill C-421, An Act respecting the establishment of the Office of the Chief Actuary of Canada and to amend other Acts in consequence thereof, the Speaker shall not receive any quorum calls, dilatory motions, or requests for unanimous consent and, at the conclusion of the debate, all questions necessary to dispose of the motion for second reading be deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at the beginning of the time provided for Private Members' Business.


By unanimous consent, it was ordered, — That Private Member's Business motion M-200, standing in the order of precedence on the Order Paper in the name of Ms. Minna (Beaches—East York) , be withdrawn.

Business of Supply

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Harper (Calgary Southwest) , seconded by Mr. Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast) , in relation to the Business of Supply;

And of the amendment of Mr. Toews (Provencher) , seconded by Mr. Sorenson (Crowfoot) .

The debate continued.

At 5:15 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 81(16), the Speaker interrupted the proceedings.

The question was put on the amendment and it was tied on the following division:

+

(Division No. 209 -- Vote no 209)

YEAS: 134, NAYS: 134

YEAS -- POUR
Abbott
Ablonczy
Anders
Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands)
Assad
Assadourian
Asselin
Bailey
Barnes (Gander—Grand Falls)
Bellemare
Benoit
Bertrand
Bonin
Breitkreuz
Bryden
Burton
Cadman
Calder
Cannis
Casey
Casson
Chamberlain
Charbonneau
Chatters
Cullen
Cummins
Day
Doyle
Duncan
Efford
Elley
Epp
Eyking
Fitzpatrick
Fontana
Forseth
Gallant
Gaudet
Goldring
Gouk
Grewal
Grey
Guarnieri
Hanger
Harper
Harris
Herron
Hill (Macleod)
Hill (Prince George--Peace River)
Hilstrom
Hinton
Hubbard
Jackson
Jaffer
Johnston
Karygiannis
Keddy (South Shore)
Kenney (Calgary Southeast)
Kilger (Stormont--Dundas--Charlottenburgh)
Lanctôt
Lastewka
Lebel
Lee
Lincoln
Longfield
Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands)
Lunney (Nanaimo—Alberni)
MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough)
Malhi
Maloney
Mark
Martin (Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca)
Mayfield
McCormick
McGuire
McKay (Scarborough East)
McNally
McTeague
Meredith
Merrifield
Mills (Red Deer)
Moore
Murphy
Normand
O'Brien (London--Fanshawe)
O'Reilly
Obhrai
Pallister
Pankiw
Penson
Peric
Peschisolido
Pickard (Chatham--Kent Essex)
Pillitteri
Pratt
Provenzano
Rajotte
Reed (Halton)
Reid (Lanark—Carleton)
Reynolds
Ritz
Savoy
Schellenberger
Scherrer
Schmidt
Serré
Sgro
Shepherd
Skelton
Solberg
Sorenson
Speller
Spencer
St-Julien
Steckle
Stinson
Strahl
Szabo
Thompson (New Brunswick Southwest)
Thompson (Wild Rose)
Tirabassi
Toews
Tonks
Ur
Vellacott
Venne
Volpe
Wappel
Wayne
White (North Vancouver)
White (Langley--Abbotsford)
Wilfert
Williams
Yelich -- 134
NAYS -- CONTRE
Adams
Alcock
Allard
Anderson (Victoria)
Augustine
Bachand (Saint-Jean)
Bachand (Richmond--Arthabaska)
Bagnell
Barnes (London West)
Barrette
Beaumier
Bélanger
Bennett
Bevilacqua
Bigras
Binet
Blaikie
Blondin-Andrew
Bonwick
Borotsik
Boudria
Bourgeois
Bradshaw
Brison
Brown
Bulte
Byrne
Caccia
Caplan
Carignan
Castonguay
Catterall
Cauchon
Chrétien
Clark
Coderre
Collenette
Comartin
Copps
Crête
Cuzner
Dalphond-Guiral
Davies
DeVillers
Dhaliwal
Dion
Discepola
Dromisky
Drouin
Duceppe
Duplain
Easter
Eggleton
Farrah
Finlay
Folco
Frulla
Fry
Gagnon (Québec)
Gagnon (Champlain)
Gagnon (Lac-Saint-Jean—Saguenay)
Gauthier
Girard-Bujold
Godfrey
Godin
Goodale
Graham
Grose
Guay
Guimond
Harvard
Harvey
Ianno
Jennings
Jobin
Jordan
Keyes
Knutson
Kraft Sloan
Lalonde
LeBlanc
Lill
Loubier
Macklin
Mahoney
Manley
Marceau
Marcil
Marleau
Martin (LaSalle--Émard)
Martin (Winnipeg Centre)
Masse
McCallum
McDonough
McLellan
Ménard
Minna
Mitchell
Nault
Neville
Nystrom
Pagtakhan
Paquette
Paradis
Parrish
Patry
Peterson
Pettigrew
Phinney
Picard (Drummond)
Plamondon
Price
Proctor
Proulx
Redman
Regan
Robillard
Robinson
Rock
Roy
Saada
Sauvageau
Scott
Simard
St-Hilaire
St-Jacques
St. Denis
Stewart
Telegdi
Thibault (West Nova)
Thibeault (Saint-Lambert)
Vanclief
Wasylycia-Leis
Whelan -- 134
PAIRED -- PAIRÉS
Bakopanos
Bergeron
Desrochers
Fournier
Gallaway
Torsney
Tremblay
Valeri

The votes being equally divided, the Speaker gave his casting vote in the negative on the procedural grounds that, if the House could not make a definitive decision on the amendment, the possibility must be left open for the original question to come before the House.

Accordingly, the amendment was negatived.

The question was put on the main motion and it was negatived on the following division:

-

(Division No. 210 -- Vote no 210)

YEAS: 132, NAYS: 137

YEAS -- POUR
Abbott
Ablonczy
Anders
Anderson (Cypress Hills—Grasslands)
Assad
Assadourian
Asselin
Bailey
Barnes (Gander—Grand Falls)
Bellemare
Benoit
Bertrand
Bonin
Breitkreuz
Bryden
Burton
Cadman
Calder
Cannis
Casey
Casson
Chamberlain
Charbonneau
Chatters
Cummins
Day
Doyle
Duncan
Efford
Elley
Epp
Eyking
Fitzpatrick
Fontana
Forseth
Gallant
Gaudet
Goldring
Gouk
Grewal
Grey
Guarnieri
Hanger
Harper
Harris
Herron
Hill (Macleod)
Hill (Prince George--Peace River)
Hilstrom
Hinton
Hubbard
Jackson
Jaffer
Johnston
Karygiannis
Keddy (South Shore)
Kenney (Calgary Southeast)
Kilger (Stormont--Dundas--Charlottenburgh)
Lanctôt
Lastewka
Lebel
Lee
Lincoln
Longfield
Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands)
Lunney (Nanaimo—Alberni)
MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough)
Malhi
Maloney
Mark
Martin (Esquimalt--Juan de Fuca)
Mayfield
McCormick
McGuire
McKay (Scarborough East)
McNally
McTeague
Meredith
Merrifield
Mills (Red Deer)
Moore
Murphy
Normand
O'Brien (London--Fanshawe)
O'Reilly
Obhrai
Pallister
Pankiw
Penson
Peric
Peschisolido
Pickard (Chatham--Kent Essex)
Pillitteri
Pratt
Provenzano
Rajotte
Reed (Halton)
Reid (Lanark—Carleton)
Reynolds
Ritz
Savoy
Schellenberger
Scherrer
Schmidt
Serré
Sgro
Skelton
Solberg
Sorenson
Speller
Spencer
St-Julien
Steckle
Stinson
Strahl
Szabo
Thompson (New Brunswick Southwest)
Thompson (Wild Rose)
Tirabassi
Toews
Tonks
Ur
Vellacott
Venne
Volpe
Wappel
Wayne
White (North Vancouver)
White (Langley--Abbotsford)
Wilfert
Williams
Yelich -- 132
NAYS -- CONTRE
Adams
Alcock
Allard
Anderson (Victoria)
Augustine
Bachand (Saint-Jean)
Bachand (Richmond--Arthabaska)
Bagnell
Barnes (London West)
Barrette
Beaumier
Bélanger
Bennett
Bevilacqua
Bigras
Binet
Blaikie
Blondin-Andrew
Bonwick
Borotsik
Boudria
Bourgeois
Bradshaw
Brison
Brown
Bulte
Byrne
Caccia
Caplan
Carignan
Castonguay
Catterall
Cauchon
Chrétien
Clark
Coderre
Collenette
Comartin
Copps
Crête
Cullen
Cuzner
Dalphond-Guiral
Davies
DeVillers
Dhaliwal
Dion
Discepola
Dromisky
Drouin
Duceppe
Duplain
Easter
Eggleton
Farrah
Finlay
Folco
Frulla
Fry
Gagnon (Québec)
Gagnon (Champlain)
Gagnon (Lac-Saint-Jean—Saguenay)
Gauthier
Girard-Bujold
Godfrey
Godin
Goodale
Graham
Grose
Guay
Guimond
Harvard
Harvey
Ianno
Jennings
Jobin
Jordan
Karetak-Lindell
Keyes
Knutson
Kraft Sloan
Lalonde
LeBlanc
Lill
Loubier
Macklin
Mahoney
Manley
Marceau
Marcil
Marleau
Martin (LaSalle--Émard)
Martin (Winnipeg Centre)
Masse
McCallum
McDonough
McLellan
Ménard
Minna
Mitchell
Nault
Neville
Nystrom
Pagtakhan
Paquette
Paradis
Parrish
Patry
Peterson
Pettigrew
Phinney
Picard (Drummond)
Plamondon
Price
Proctor
Proulx
Redman
Regan
Robillard
Robinson
Rock
Roy
Saada
Sauvageau
Scott
Shepherd
Simard
St-Hilaire
St-Jacques
St. Denis
Stewart
Telegdi
Thibault (West Nova)
Thibeault (Saint-Lambert)
Vanclief
Wasylycia-Leis
Whelan -- 137
PAIRED -- PAIRÉS
Bakopanos
Bergeron
Desrochers
Fournier
Gallaway
Torsney
Tremblay
Valeri

Private Members' Business

At 6:16 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mrs. Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill) , seconded by Mr. Thompson (Wild Rose) , — That Bill C-421, An Act respecting the establishment of the Office of the Chief Actuary of Canada and to amend other Acts in consequence thereof, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

The debate continued.

At 7:04 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 93(1), the Speaker interrupted the proceedings.

Pursuant to Order made earlier today, the question was deemed put on the motion and the recorded division was deemed requested and deferred until Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at the beginning of the time provided for Private Members' Business.

Petitions Filed with the Clerk of the House

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was filed as follows:

— by Mr. Herron (Fundy—Royal) , one concerning the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (No. 372-1920).

Adjournment Proceedings

At 7:04 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 38(1), the question “That this House do now adjourn” was deemed to have been proposed.

After debate, the question was deemed to have been adopted.

Accordingly, at 7:20 p.m., the Speaker adjourned the House until tomorrow at 2:00 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).