SRID Committee Meeting

37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION

Subcommittee on Human Rights and International Development of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Tuesday, November 4, 2003

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1540

The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Stephen Knowles)

Mr. Keith Martin (Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, Canadian Alliance)

The Clerk

The Clerk

Mr. Keith Martin

The Clerk

The Clerk

Mr. Svend Robinson (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP)

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan (York North, Lib.)

Mr. Svend Robinson

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

The Clerk

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

Mr. Svend Robinson

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

The Clerk

Mr. Keith Martin

The Clerk

The Clerk

The Chair (Mr. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.))

Mr. Keith Martin

The Chair

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Ms. Colleen Beaumier (Brampton West—Mississauga, Lib.)

The Chair

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

The Chair

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Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

The Chair

Mr. Yves Rocheleau (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

The Chair

Mr. Keith Martin

The Chair

Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan

The Chair

Mr. Keith Martin

Ms. Colleen Beaumier

The Chair

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CANADA

Subcommittee on Human Rights and International Development of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade

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NUMBER 011

l

2nd SESSION

l

37th PARLIAMENT

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EVIDENCE

Tuesday, November 4, 2003

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

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[Translation]

    The Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Stephen Knowles): Our first item of business is the election of a chair. I am ready to receive nominations.

[English]

    Mr. Keith Martin (Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, Canadian Alliance): I'd like to nominate Professor Cotler to be the chair of the committee.

    The Clerk: Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt that motion?

    (Motion agreed to)

    The Clerk: Then Mr. Cotler is duly elected chair of the committee.

    The last time, the committee elected two vice-chairs. Is it the pleasure of the subcommittee to nominate vice-chairs?

    Mr. Martin.

    Mr. Keith Martin: I'll nominate Deepak Obhrai.

    The Clerk: It is moved by Mr. Martin that Mr. Deepak Obhrai be elected vice-chair of the committee. Is it the pleasure of the subcommittee to adopt that motion?

    (Motion agreed to)

    The Clerk: Is there a nomination for another vice-chair?

    Mr. Robinson.

    Mr. Svend Robinson (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP): I nominate Mrs. Kraft Sloan as the other vice-chair.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan (York North, Lib.): Mr. Chair, I believe Colleen Beaumier was our vice-chair.

    Mr. Svend Robinson: She was. This is a new committee, though.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: I'd be happy to nominate Colleen Beaumier as a vice-chair.

    The Clerk: Well, we have a motion on the floor right now by Mr. Robinson.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: May I speak to that, Mr. Chair?

    Thank you very much, Mr. Robinson, for putting my name forward as the government vice-chair. I don't want to disrupt any dynamic that existed on the committee, and I'd be--

    Mr. Svend Robinson: There is no dynamic.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: Well, I'd like to remove my name and move that Colleen be elected a vice-chair.

    Thank you.

    (Motion withdrawn)

    The Clerk: Are there any other motions for the election of a vice-chair?

    Mr. Keith Martin: I'll nominate Colleen Beaumier.

    The Clerk: It is moved by Dr. Martin that Colleen Beaumier be elected vice-chair of the committee. Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

    (Motion agreed to)

    The Clerk: I now invite Mr. Cotler to take over as chair.

    The Chair (Mr. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.)): I want to thank the members of the committee for their vote of confidence. I think we might try to pick up where we left off so that we can continue with the important priorities that were before the committee.

    If I recall correctly, Mr. Knowles, we had some subject matter that we were going to deal with during this session.

    We have of course dealt with and reported upon the matter of the AIDS pandemic and the urgent humanitarian catastrophe in sub-Saharan Africa.

    The requests that are now before us include a request of the Falun Gong or Falun Dafa Association to appear before this committee. This is a reference by the foreign affairs committee as a whole to us for our consideration. We might want to consider broadening that to look into the issue of human rights in China in general and the question of the Falun Gong in particular, or we can look at it in terms of the reference, just looking at it in terms of the Falun Gong, whatever is your pleasure on this issue. But I'm just turning now to what was referred to us by the foreign affairs committee.

    Are there any reactions on this matter? Keith.

    Mr. Keith Martin: Mr. Chair, what were the other options that we were going to deal with?

    The Chair: The other requests that were referred before us were the request of the Rassemblement canadien pour le Liban to appear before us and present its study on human rights and democracy in Lebanon; a request from Amnesty International that also related to human rights in China; and of course, the motion from Karen Kraft Sloan regarding the whole question of detainees at Guantanamo Bay and to get an American official to appear before us.

    I'm referring to Karen Kraft Sloan's motion now. So, Karen, that's why I'm just trying to address you on that. That issue is also before us.

    So this is the subject matter, as I understand it, Keith, and Mr. Knowles can correct me if I am wrong.

    Yes, Colleen.

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    Ms. Colleen Beaumier (Brampton West—Mississauga, Lib.): I understood last year we were anticipating doing a study on Sudan. What's happened to that?

    The Chair: That is something we had already begun, so I presume we would be going on with that study. I was just dealing with some matters we would perhaps consider, because we're now establishing priorities for the order of business. Sudan is something we have begun. We are in effect now continuing with our study of Sudan. The question is what we do, either in parallel with or subsequent to the study of the Sudan, as members of this committee. That's really what it's all about.

    Karen, and then Keith.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    First of all, I would like to say this is the first time I've seen this letter from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister Bill Graham. I would like to say, however, that someone from the opposition had indicated to me there was a willingness for the representative from the Americans—the American Ambassador-at-Large for War Crimes—to send an official to the subcommittee. As I said, this is the first time I have seen this actual letter. Considering it was a motion that was passed by the committee last—

    The Chair: We circulated that letter.

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    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: I apologize. I'm just saying this is the first time I've seen it. It was received by the House of Commons on August 13. It was a motion we put forward in this committee just prior to recessing, so perhaps this is an issue we could deal with in a timely fashion.

    I also would like to reiterate what my colleague Madame Beaumier has said, that we've already commenced the Sudan study. I guess I'm trying to understand how, as a subcommittee, we're going to start running parallel hearings when it's often difficult to get members out. Considering this is a fairly important vote today concerning the chair and the vice-chairs, and we have limited attendance today, I would be concerned about taking on a lot of other studies. Generally, when a committee is pursuing a particular subject matter, that's the subject matter they continue to pursue, especially when a committee is only meeting one day a week and when it is a subcommittee.

    We also have huge questions marks as to what's going to happen with the House. Is the House proroguing? Is it adjourning? And what is the role of committees?

    I would be concerned about sending messages out to communities—for example, the Falun Gong or others—that we're going to have them come before the committee, when we really don't know what the state of parliamentary business is going to be. If the House prorogues, we won't be back until there's a throne speech, and so clearly the committees will change. The membership of the committee will likely change; the chair and vice-chairs of the committee may change as well. I didn't want to disappoint a community thinking they were coming before a committee. In fact, we're not really in a position to start that kind of agenda, particularly in light of the fact that we have other commitments we have to act on.

    I'm just trying to seek some clarification. It's difficult to set priorities when there's so much uncertainty.

    The Chair: Your point is well taken. It's just that as chair I felt obliged to present before you what had been referenced to us from the foreign affairs committee and to allow the committee to make whatever determination they wish about how to proceed. If we want to say we're going to decide now to go ahead only with Sudan, that's fine with me. If we want to include any other matter, that's fine with me. It's up to you to make that determination.

    Yves.

[Translation]

    Mr. Yves Rocheleau (Trois-Rivières, BQ): I don't want to be indiscreet about the House calendar, Mr. Chairman, but according to rumours, the proceedings of the House and committees will conclude on Friday and may resume only in January or February.

    I don't know whether it is really worth the trouble of setting up a work timetable in view of the fact that we will only be here for a few weeks and maybe only a few days if an election is called.

    Wouldn't it be better to postpone this until we have a clearer idea of what is happening, when things are less uncertain?

    The Chair: Yes. Are there any other comments or questions? Keith.

[English]

    Mr. Keith Martin: I propose we defer this discussion to the meeting that will take place next after November 7, whenever that will be.

    It seems to me we're not going to prorogue, but we will recess, so our work will continue. I propose we have the discussion at the next meeting of the committee, which I assume will be some time after November 7. Then we will be able to have continuity in our work until the next election writ is dropped.

    The Chair: All right. Should we have a motion to adjourn? Then we will reconvene at an appropriate time. In the light of what circumstances evolve at that time, we'll then make a determination as to what we're going to do, or even who's going to do it.

    Mrs. Karen Kraft Sloan: I think, Mr. Chair, that is an excellent idea. If we are able to reconvene after November 7, we will have a clear idea what kind of agenda we might be able to participate in, because we'll know whether the House is coming back or not coming back. Then we can make commitments. I just don't want to raise people's expectations.

    The Chair: Is there a motion for adjournment?

    Mr. Keith Martin: I move adjournment.

    Ms. Colleen Beaumier: I think, before we do anything, we'd like to congratulate you on your work today.

    An hon. member: Yes, congratulations.

    Ms. Colleen Beaumier:We're very proud of you today—that is, today.

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

    The Chair: Thank you.

    The meeting stands adjourned. We will reconvene at the appropriate moment, once we know when we can meet again. Thank you.