HAFF Committee Meeting
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37th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION
Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs
EVIDENCE
CONTENTS
Tuesday, April 23, 2002
| Á | 1110 |
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The Chair (Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.)) |
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Mr. Marcel Proulx (Hull--Aylmer, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie--Bathurst, NDP) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Yvon Godin |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Marcel Proulx |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Joe Jordan (Leeds--Grenville, Lib.) |
| Á | 1115 |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, Canadian Alliance) |
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Mr. Marcel Proulx |
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Mr. Dale Johnston |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Dale Johnston |
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Mr. Marcel Proulx |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Marlene Catterall (Ottawa West--Nepean, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
| Á | 1120 |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon--Souris, PC) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Marlene Catterall |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Marlene Catterall |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Marlene Catterall |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk of the Committee |
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The Chair |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair |
CANADA
Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs |
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EVIDENCE
Tuesday, April 23, 2002
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Á 
(1110)
[English]
The Chair (Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.)): Let's begin.
You have the agenda before you. You need to recall, though, that the greater part of our time this morning will be taken up with a private meeting with the Standing Committee on the Legislative Assembly. We have Margaret Marland here. Our colleagues from Queen's Park can introduce themselves more formally later.
I suggest we conduct our business here as expeditiously as possible and then invite our colleagues to join us for a sort of round table, rather than in some sort of confrontational way. Patrice has ordered cookies, and our people from Queen's Park should know that having cookies here is a great, great luxury for us, and it's in honour of your visit.
Look at the agenda and you'll see items A through E. I would ask you to go to E first. Marcel Proulx, the chair of our subcommittee on private members' business, is here. He can discuss his report. He's not technically a member of the committee. I'll ask someone to move this in a moment.
Marcel, is there anything you would care to say at this moment with respect to your report?
[Translation]
Mr. Marcel Proulx (Hull--Aylmer, Lib.): Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am pleased to be able to tell you that at our last meeting, following much negotiations and contrary to what everyone has been saying about us recently, we succeeded in reaching agreement on the following four sections: C-400, M-326, M-334 and M-478.
I would like to make one brief comment. You have either received or will shortly be receiving a request for the review of a decision that was taken on two occasions: the first time, a few weeks ago, and then again a second time, now, because members had asked to review a decision that had been taken. We have decided not to change our decision, because were we to do so, many members whose request had been turned down would want to appear before us again.
Mr. Chair, I believe that your committee is going to have to, once again, look into the issue of the way our subcommittee is working.
[English]
The Chair: To comment on what Marcel just said, the steering committee met. One of our agenda items is to receive the steering committee's report, but the suggestion with respect to private members' business is that we have a fairly elaborate round table on it on May 2.
The design of it is not complete yet--although I would hope to have it designed by our next meeting--but the current thinking is that it would be televised and all members would be invited. We would also invite some experts in private members' business. But it would be a round table.
It wouldn't be an occasion for members to come and make long presentations on their personal interests, although those members who have approached Marcel's committee would be invited.
I'm going to try to articulate this better the next time, Marcel. This will be when we will begin reconsidering the various matters associated with private members' business.
Are there any comments on what Marcel has had to say?
The chair recognizes Yvon Godin.
[Translation]
Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie--Bathurst, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, I'm very pleased that we have been able to organize this round table, because I believe that we should be looking at issues in a different way. I have already mentioned this in the past.
For example, some members of Parliament would like all motions and bills to be votable. I am disappointed and I shall tell you why. At our last meeting, we had decided that only two motions would be votable out of a possible six. This time, we only have four and we could have had a possible six. Some members are calling for all motions to be votable, but at the same time, members had not even been able to put six on the table for us. Consequently, we have to look into this issue.
There is another problem here also. There have been allegations that the governing party, whether it be the Liberals or any other party, do not control this committee.
Here's a case in point. This committee decides whether private members' bills are votable or not. I would like to know one thing. Does the chair of the committee normally vote on the subcommittee? Does there not normally have to be unanimous consent? But, if we're talking about a majority of five to one...
[English]
The Chair: I do want to move this on. We want to engage in the debate at the round table and continue, but that's a straightforward question.
The question is, does the chair vote, Marcel?
[Translation]
Mr. Yvon Godin: Please let me finish.
I would like to raise another problem. I just wanted to raise this issue, just in case the committee intends to sit before the 2nd of May. For argument's sake, let's say that there's a five-to-one decision. If the government member and the chair of the committee are able to vote, that means there are two Liberal votes. If both these Liberal MPs were to vote against every bill, then there would be no votable bills.
[English]
The Chair: Yvon, if I could ask, given that we have guests and we have other items to deal with....
The question is there. Marcel, does the chair vote?
Mr. Marcel Proulx: We don't vote, but yes, the chair does participate in the decision.
The Chair: Perhaps, Yvon, that's something we could raise in the round table, when we look at the details of it.
I have Joe Jordan and Dale Johnston. Colleagues, can we keep it brief?
Mr. Joe Jordan (Leeds--Grenville, Lib.): Mr. Chair, you're putting together this round table, and I'd like to make a suggestion. We've been down this road so many times. We could bring in some people--certainly Joseph Maingot comes to mind--who could provide a historical perspective as to the purpose of private members' business. I think without starting with a unified definition of what it's for, everything else breaks down along the way. So I think we should front-end it with some very good people on that issue, and then we might be able to move it forward.
Á (1115)
The Chair: I'll be bringing a draft design of this round table to the next meeting and we can discuss that then. It's duly noted.
Dale Johnston.
Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, Canadian Alliance): Mr. Chairman, very briefly, we have four items here that are votable. How many were drawn? We have four votable items before us today out of how many spaces?
Mr. Marcel Proulx: There were six spaces.
Mr. Dale Johnston: No, no, but how many bills are you forwarding?
An hon. member: The question was how many slots--
The Chair: That's right, that was the question. There were six.
Mr. Dale Johnston: Well, how come we don't have six here?
Mr. Marcel Proulx: The same question could have been asked the time before and the time before and the time before, in the sense that the committee has arrived at consensus in this particular case that the members were agreeing on four that should be made votable. Rules and regulations do not force the committee to absolutely fill all the vacant slots, so the committee decided in this case that four of them would be made votable.
The Chair: I think we'll find that Yvon was making a similar point in part of his remarks.
It is moved by Jacques Saada that the report from the Subcommittee on Private Members' Business be adopted as the committee's report to the House and that the chair present the report to the House.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Marcel, merci beaucoup pour ça.
Colleagues, we will go back to agenda item A, election of the vice-chair.
Marlene Catterall.
Ms. Marlene Catterall (Ottawa West--Nepean, Lib.): I would like to propose that Dale Johnston be elected vice-chair of the committee.
The Chair: It's moved by Marlene Catterall that Dale Johnston be elected as vice-chair of this committee.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Dale, congratulations and condolences.
We now have agenda item B. This is the consideration of the steering committee report. The subcommittee on agenda and procedure, for the benefit of our guests, is our steering committee.
Again, I might explain for the benefit of our guests, in this case, the steering committee consists of the five reps of the parties, plus the chair, so that's who it is. And this was a meeting we had to discuss future business.
Colleagues, you have the list before you and you also have a calendar, which is this thing with two sides. If you could look at the April side of it, the suggestion is that this Thursday, because in fact neither the Speaker nor the Chief Electoral Officer were available, we presumably would complete our consideration of security on the Hill. There were some questions about general security for VIPs; there were some questions about the links between Senate security and House security, and between security on the Hill and the RCMP and the Ottawa Police. That will be this Thursday.
Next Tuesday it's the main estimates of the House of Commons, and the Speaker is available and will be here for that. Again, I say this partly for our guests but for ourselves as well; we have to consider the main estimates within the next couple of weeks. As the senior committee, we should set an example to other committees by doing so.
Then, May 2, as I've mentioned, is the date set aside for the private members' business round table that I discussed, and I'll give draft details of it at the next meeting.
On May 7 we have the main estimates of the Chief Electoral Officer. That will be a slightly extended meeting at the request of members of the steering committee. Not only do we have the main estimates of Mr. Kingsley, but members have a lot of questions to ask him. So our meeting will go on somewhat longer, and Patrice will return to the kitchen and will produce some special delicacies to keep us all here during lunchtime.
Then on the ninth...and I have to say this to the steering committee: when we had our meeting we didn't know the status of Bill S-34, which is the Senate bill changing the nature of royal assent. As this legislation has now been referred to us since the steering committee meeting, we have to give it some priority. So my suggestion is that on May 9 we deal with Bill S-34.
And just so you know, so far the only inquiry I have received about it has been from the Monarchist League. This is, again for our guests, a change in the way bills get royal assent in the Senate.
Rick Borotsik.
Á (1120)
Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon--Souris, PC): Mr. Chair, are we sure we will have it back by then from the Senate, or should we...?
The Chair: We've got it, Rick. It came back on Friday, I think.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: I would suggest we do it the week of the 21st to the 25th, after the break, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: Again, I would simply repeat that since the steering committee meeting on Friday, it was referred to us. As it is legislation, even though it comes from the Senate, I think we have to give it priority, Rick.
Colleagues, will someone move that the report of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure be adopted?
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: There is a change in the membership of the subcommittee on agenda and procedure; it's the steering committee. It's an adjustment to changes amongst the parties. It's moved by Yvon Godin of the NDP that Rick Borotsik replace Jay Hill on the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Rick, we allowed you to be here last week illegally; you're now here legally, which is very nice from some points of view.
Marlene Catterall.
Ms. Marlene Catterall: I think we also need a motion that Dale Johnston replace Jay Hill on the subcommittee on agenda and procedure.
The Chair: Replace...?
Ms. Marlene Catterall: Sorry, Garry Breitkreuz.
The Chair: Garry Breitkreuz, is that right? You've heard this motion--this is D.
Sorry, which one is it?
Ms. Marlene Catterall: I'm sorry, I made a mistake. It's Dale Johnston for Mr. Breitkreuz.
The Chair: Hang on a minute. Let's get it straight. I screwed up on this in the House of Commons today.
Tell us, Patrice, slowly, what it is.
The Clerk of the Committee: There's only one motion on the agenda, but the Canadian Alliance would like to reflect that Mr. Breitkreuz has resigned as vice-chair as of a few minutes ago. It's a new motion. So Ms. Catterall is moving that Mr. Johnston replace Mr. Breitkreuz.
The Chair: All right. This is written and it's all very civilized. Colleagues, do you understand the motion?
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Now there's another one. Please say what it is.
The Clerk: This one is for the subcommittee on private members' business, to replace Mr. Hill by Mr. Borotsik.
The Chair: It is moved by Joe Jordan.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Congratulations to all concerned.
Is there any other business, colleagues? I'm going to adjourn this meeting now so that we can go into our private session with our colleagues from Queen's Park.
The meeting is adjourned until Thursday at 11 o'clock, when we will be considering security on Parliament Hill. This means, by the way, the media must leave. I apologize for that, but it's just a collegial meeting. There's nothing secretive about it.