OGGO Committee Meeting
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37th PARLIAMENT, 3rd SESSION
Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates
EVIDENCE
CONTENTS
Tuesday, February 17, 2004
| ¿ | 0900 |
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The Clerk of the Committee |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka (St. Catharines, Lib.) |
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The Clerk |
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The Clerk |
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Raymond Bonin (Nickel Belt, Lib.) |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Paul Szabo (Mississauga South, Lib.) |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair (Mr. Paul Szabo) |
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Mr. Paul Forseth (New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, CPC) |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
| ¿ | 0905 |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Sarkis Assadourian (Brampton Centre, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Sarkis Assadourian |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Lynne Yelich (Blackstrap, CPC) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Sarkis Assadourian |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Paul Forseth |
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The Chair |
| ¿ | 0910 |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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Mr. Paul Forseth |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Anita Neville (Winnipeg South Centre, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, CPC) |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Mr. John Duncan |
| ¿ | 0915 |
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The Chair |
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Mr. John Duncan |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Ms. Anita Neville |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Walt Lastewka |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Lynne Yelich |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Lynne Yelich |
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The Chair |
CANADA
Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates |
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EVIDENCE
Tuesday, February 17, 2004
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
¿ 
(0900)
[English]
The Clerk of the Committee: Honourable members of the committee, I see a quorum.
We can now proceed to the election of the chair. I'll now receive nominations for chair of the committee.
Mr. Lastewka.
Hon. Walt Lastewka (St. Catharines, Lib.): I move that Paul Szabo be elected chair of the committee.
The Clerk: Are there any other nominations? No.
I declare Mr. Szabo chair of the committee.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
The Clerk: We'll now proceed to the election of the government vice-chair.
[Translation]
Raymond Bonin (Nickel Belt, Lib.): I am pleased to move that Mr. Robert Lanctôt be elected Vice-Chair.
The Clerk: Are there any other motions?
I declare Mr. Lanctôt duly elected as Government Vice-Chair.
I am now ready to receive motions for the election of the Opposition Vice-Chair.
[English]
Mr. Paul Szabo (Mississauga South, Lib.): I nominate Mr. Paul Forseth.
The Clerk: Mr. Szabo has nominated Mr. Forseth in absentia.
Are there any other nominations? No.
I declare Mr. Forseth opposition vice-chair.
I now invite the chair to take the chair.
The Chair (Mr. Paul Szabo): Thank you very much, colleagues.
We have just one order of business for this meeting.
I understand that some members would like to be at the public accounts committee hearing as well.
The agenda calls for the adoption of our routine motions, and I would propose that we deal with them one at a time.
Mr. Paul Forseth (New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, CPC): Mr. Chair, in addition to dealing with the routine motions, I'd just like to say at this time that I do have a notice of motion to add to the routine motions.
The Chair: Colleagues, the first item is with regard to establishing a subcommittee on agenda and procedure. I think we all understand that this subcommittee or steering committee is not to make decisions on behalf of the committee, but rather to work through various ideas and proposals from the members for consideration and to work out all the details prior to coming to the committee.
We have a unique situation where there are two parliamentary secretaries on the committee. I believe the principal one would be the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Mr. Jordan will be on the steering committee. I'm on public accounts. We've agreed that I take one and he takes the other. That makes it easier.
¿ (0905)
The Chair: That's fine.
These motions reflect how the committee operated in the last session.
The motion proposes that the chair; the two vice-chairs; the parliamentary secretary, being Mr. Jordan; and a representative of the Conservative Party, the Bloc Québécois, and the New Democratic Party do compose the subcommittee.
An hon. member: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The second one is the standard item on services from the Library of Parliament.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next one is a motion to receive and publish evidence, a standard motion.
Mr. Sarkis Assadourian (Brampton Centre, Lib.): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next one is on time limits for witnesses' statements and questioning. This is a guide, I would assume, for members. But I would hope that the members would understand that we should have some latitude, depending on whether it's a minister or a panel before us. This would be a general guide for the general case, if that's the understanding.
Mr. Assadourian.
Mr. Sarkis Assadourian: When you say seven minutes, that includes the question and answer period. Can we make that clear?
The Chair: That is for the first questioner. You have no control over how long an answer will be, so most members use up as much of the seven minutes as they can, and it's up to the chair either to cut them off or suggest that they have to leave some time. I think it's a matter of cooperation within the committee to not abuse the time available, given the work for our meeting.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next one is on payment of witnesses' travelling and living expenses, our standard one.
Mrs. Lynne Yelich (Blackstrap, CPC): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Finally, there is the motion on the distribution of documents with translation, again our standard one.
Mr. Sarkis Assadourian: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Thank you, colleagues.
We now have a notice of motion.
Mr. Lastewka.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: On receiving motions, and the time limits, don't we have a motion that says motions must be received within 48 hours? Should we not be dealing with that routine motion first?
The Chair: Agreed. I understand that, in what was circulated, we have only the first page. There is a second page, and that's the problem.
With regard to notices of motion, I believe the principal motion we haven't yet addressed. I would entertain some input from the committee members with regard to practice.
Mr. Lastewka.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Notices of motions require 48 hours so that the clerk and everybody can get the information on these sometime in advance.
The Chair: In both official languages.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Yes, in both languages.
I would move that, Mr. Chairman.
The Chair: Okay. That is the practice of the House proper.
Now, if I may, the committee always has the authority to waive notice requirements. This committee has in fact operated very well in the past. We have had a good history of cooperation within the committee, and I have no hesitation in saying that I believe this will continue. However, there is a motion with regard to notice requirement, that it be 48 hours.
Is there further discussion on that?
Yes, sir.
Mr. Paul Forseth: I think the rationale for this discussion is not directed at my notice of motion, if I understand correctly.
The Chair: If it would be helpful, I would seek the consent of the committee to waive any notice requirement on these two. I believe the members will recognize that the motions being proposed to us with the notice of motion are two that we should be supporting, but we'll have members to speak to that.
Yes, on the 48 hours' notice, this is the House. So if there's no further discussion on the 48 hours....
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings]
¿ (0910)
The Chair: Now, a notice of motion has been circulated to members. Do all members have this document? It's with regard to the estimates, and also the auditor.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Mr. Chairman, just as a point of clarification here, it's my understanding that on the rules that apply to television, it depends on which ministers are appearing and so forth, and then the House leaders decide. That's automatic?
The Chair: That has been the practice, I understand.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Has that changed? I don't think it has changed.
What happens is, let's say there are three ministers appearing in front of a committee. The House leaders decide which will be televised and which won't. If there's only one minister appearing in front of a committee, then that gets priority. They'd have a priority sheet--I don't have it with me. But that's the priority.
Mr. Paul Forseth: Yes, but that doesn't affect this motion at all, I don't believe.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Well, isn't it when you invite the minister? Having the word “minister” in there, it automatically falls under the House leaders procedures.
The Chair: I think the practice has been in the past that this is on items exclusive of the estimates. It may be televised, but I think in view of the fact that this is a routine item for all of our standing committees, the resources of the television rooms, etc., may not be taken up exclusively.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Maybe the clerk can get us that information, what the procedure is. We should all know it. The reason I've known it is because it came up a number of times when I was chair of the industry committee and we were told how we fell under the various procedures. So we should get a copy of it and have an understanding on how ministers get televised and what the priority is.
The Chair: We'll get that clarification. I think it would be the intent of the committee, when ministers appear on matters of specific attention to this committee, that certainly we would like to seek to have those resources. I'm not sure at this point whether that would be the case in all matters to do with the estimates or the supplementary estimates. But we'll find out from the committee that you formerly chaired, Mr. Lastewka, about resources available to committees, as well.
With regard to the two notices of motion, notwithstanding that we have just passed a motion with regard to 48 hours' notice, in view of the matters I would see if someone would care to move for unanimous consent that the notice-of-motion requirement be waived.
Ms. Anita Neville (Winnipeg South Centre, Lib.): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Mr. Duncan, I think it would be appropriate for you to read the two motions into the record one at a time, and we'll call a vote on each one.
Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, CPC): Okay. I guess the full format would be best.
I, John Duncan, member of Parliament for Vancouver Island North, move that the following two motions be added to routine motions of the Standing Committee on Government Operations: that whenever the main estimates orthe supplementary estimates are referredto committee, the committee invite theminister and any relevant seniorofficials of a department to appear at ameeting of the committee, and that ifpossible, the meeting be televised.
The Chair: Could we stop there and maybe deal with that one first?
Is there any discussion on that motion?
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Do you want to proceed?
Mr. John Duncan: Secondly, that whenever a chapter of a report ofthe Auditor General refers to a subjectunder the mandate of the committee, thecommittee invite the Office of theAuditor General of Canada and anyrelevant senior officials of a departmentto appear at a televised meeting, if possible, of the committee.
¿ (0915)
The Chair: You've heard the motion. Is there any discussion?
(Motion agreed to)
Mr. John Duncan: Thank you very much.
The Chair: Okay, colleagues, there were two other routine motions that unfortunately were not circulated to you.
The first is with regard to in-camera meetings, should there be any at the request of the committee, and that is that in-camera meetings be transcribed, that the transcription be kept with the clerk of the committee for consultation by members of the committee, and that these transcripts be destroyed at the end of the session. That is the standard practice as outlined in Marleau and Montpetit.
An hon. member: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: And the last item is that each committee member be allowed to have one staff person present at in-camera meetings unless there is a decision for a particular meeting to exclude all such staff.
Ms. Anita Neville: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Is there further business?
Mr. Lastewka.
Hon. Walt Lastewka: Just a little bit of a clarification, since I wasn't part of the committee before. I understand there was a subcommittee working on whistle-blowing, and I'm not quite sure how far you got. Will this committee be dealing with that subject? I know that the Treasury Board president has made comments that he's going to put it through, but are the subcommittee and the main committee now going to grab hold of that also?
The Chair: We do not have any subcommittees currently in existence, as a result of the prorogation. With regard to the question about the issues, I think we now have a steering committee, and we'll take that as notice. I would ask all members who have suggestions about work to be undertaken by the committee to make those to any member of the steering committee.
With regard to a meeting of the steering committee, we don't have the vice-chair opposition here. Sorry, we do. I am asking about availability of the members of the steering committee, but Mr. Jordan is not here, and we don't have the member of the NDP.
Rather than trying to anticipate what their availability would be, perhaps the members would simply allow me to make that arrangement, to meet with them, and to come back to our next meeting with a preliminary report from the steering committee. Members will know that our time slot for this committee is Tuesdays and Thursdays from nine until eleven. That is the assigned spot for us, and we'll adopt that spot unless the committee decides that other arrangements should be made.
There being no further items....
Mrs. Lynne Yelich: Is there a regular room? You say we are regularly meeting Tuesday and Thursday from nine to eleven. Is there a location that is always used?
The Chair: As with other committees, we try to keep consistency of the locale. It makes it a lot easier for everyone.
Mrs. Lynne Yelich: So where has it been? I'm new on the committee. Where has it been?
The Chair: Unfortunately in East Block, and in here, but we'll try to advise the committee on Monday.
There being no further business, the meeting is adjourned.