AANR Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 66

Wednesday, April 30, 2003

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources met in a televised session at 3:37 p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chair, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Gérard Binet, Raymond Bonin, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Maurice Vellacott.

Acting Members present: Joe Comartin for Pat Martin, John Maloney for Benoît Serré, Sue Barnes for Julian Reed, Mark Eyking for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Lawrence O’Brien for Benoît Serré, Joe Peschisolido for John Godfrey, Beth Phinney for Benoît Serré, Serge Marcil for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Paddy Torsney for Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Massimo Pacetti for John Godfrey, John Brydon for Anita Neville.

In attendance: From the Committees Branch: Jeffrey LeBlanc, Susan Baldwin, Legislative Clerks; Richard Dupuis, Committee Clerk.

In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Mary Hurley and Carol Hilling, Analysts.

Witnesses: From the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development: Warren Johnson, Assistant Deputy Minister, Lands and Trust Services; Andrew Beynon, General Counsel; Paul Salembier, Senior Counsel.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Monday, October 7, 2002, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-7, An Act respecting leadership selection, administration and accountability of Indian bands, and to make related amendments to other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Monday, January 27, 2003, Meeting No. 14).

The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

On Clause 11,

Debate resumed on the motion of Charles Hubbard, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing lines 41 and 42 on page 8 with the following:

law, authorize an impartial person or body

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Mark Eyking, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Lawrence O’Brien (7)

NAYS: Maurice Vellacott, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (3)

Charles Hubbard moved, -- That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 1 to 5 on page 9 with the following:

(a) alleging the contravention or the unfair or improper application - by the council, a member of the council or an employee of the band - of this Act, a code, regulations made under section 32 or a band law made under section 18; or

(b) contesting any decision made - by the council, a member of the council or an employee of the band - against the member of the band or resident of the reserve in the exercise of


(b) replacing lines 9 to 15 on page 9 with the following:

the power,

(a) after considering a complaint described in paragraph (1)(a), to determine whether there was a contravention or an unfair or improper application of this Act, a code, regulations made under section 32 or a band law made under section 18 and, if so, order the council, member or employee to take any measures necessary to rectify it; or

(b) after considering a complaint described in paragraph (1)(b), to order the council, the member or the employee to reconsider their decision.

Complaint against member of council

(2.1) A band law referred to in subsection (1) may confer on the authorized person or body the power, after considering a complaint, to

(a) where the complaint relates to the conduct of an election of a member of the council, set aside the election of that member; or

(b) order that the member of the council be removed from office, where there was a contravention consisting of conduct that is a ground for removal from office.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Joe Peschisolido, Charles Hubbard, Mark Eyking, Anita Neville, Julian Reed (7)

NAYS: Maurice Vellacott, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (3)

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing line 17 on page 9 with the following:

“shall, within 45 days after it is made, be provided in writing to the complainant”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Joe Peschisolido, Charles Hubbard, Serge Marcil, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Beth Phinney, Maurice Vellacott (9)

NAYS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing lines 26 and 27 on page 9 with the following:

“applies in respect of any decision referred to in paragraph (1)(b), including a decision from which a code provides a right of appeal, in which case the band law applies after the day on which the appeal process is concluded or after the day that is 45 days after the appeal process is initiated, whichever is earlier.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Maurice Vellacott (1)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Joe Peschisolido, Charles Hubbard, Serge Marcil, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Benoît Serré, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (9)

Charles Hubbard moved, -- That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing line 27 on page 9 with the following:

which a right of appeal is provided by a code, regulations made under section 32, a land code adopted under the First Nations Land Management Act or a first nation law enacted under that Act.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Joe Peschisolido, Charles Hubbard, Serge Marcil, Anita Neville, Julian Reed, Beth Phinney (8)

NAYS : Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 11, be amended by adding after line 27 on page 9 the following:

“(6) For greater certainty, where appropriate, a member of a band or resident of a reserve who has a complaint referred to in subsection (1) may initiate a claim in a court of competent jurisdiction.”

Pat Martin moved – That the Committee adjourn at 7:00 p.m. this day.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 3

NAYS: 6

Debate continued on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands.

YEAS: 0

NAYS: 9

After debate, Clause 11, as amended, carried by a show of hands.

YEAS: 8

NAYS: 2

Clause 12 carried on division.

On Clause 13,

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 13, be amended by replacing line 38 on page 9 with the following:

“to the band by the member, provided that the band makes available to the particular member the evidence of such debt accrued and the terms of repayment, excluding any fine”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to by unanimous consent on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, John Bryden, Beth Phinney, Maurice Vellacott, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (9)

NAYS: (0)

Yvan Loubier moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 13, be amended by replacing line 39 on page 9 with the following:

“imposed for the contravention of a band law, taking into account the member's financial position and ability to pay.”

At 7:45 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 7:50 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 7:57 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 7:58 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Maurice Vellacott, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (3)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, John Bryden, Julian Reed, Beth Phinney (8)

After debate, Clause 13, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, John Bryden, Julian Reed, Beth Phinney (8)

NAYS: Maurice Vellacott, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (3)

Clause 14 carried on division.

On Clause 15,

Pat Martin moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing line 9 on page 10 with the following:

“powers and privileges of a self-governing entity,”

At 8:07 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 8:19 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Debate continued on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, John Bryden, Julian Reed, Maurice Vellacott (8)

Pat Martin moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing line 9 on page 10 with the following:

“powers and privileges of an indigenous nation,”

At 9:05 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 9:25 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Debate resumed on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands.

YEAS: 3

NAYS: 8

Yvan Loubier moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing the phrase “natural person“ with “governments“.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, Anita Neville, Sue Barnes, John Maloney, Maurice Vellacott (9)

Pat Martin moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing lines 24 to 26 on page 10 with the following:

“subsection (1) do not have the effect of incorporating the band or abrogate or derogate from existing treaty or aboriginal rights.”

Pat Martin moved – That the Committee reconsider the following motion presented on Wednesday, April 2, 2003:

That the House of Commons Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs request the immediate release of any and all legal opinions that the Government of Canada has either developed or commissioned regarding whether any aspect of Bill C-7 infringes upon or derogates from any existing aboriginal or treaty rights, and whether Bill C-7 will have any affect or impact on the over two hundred plus outstanding court cases between First Nations and the government of Canada.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived.

Debate continued on the amendment.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Gérard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Massimo Pacetti, Charles Hubbard, Paddy Torsney, Anita Neville, Sue Barnes, John Maloney, Maurice Vellacott (9)

After debate, Clause 15 carried on division.

On Clause 16,

Yvan Loubier moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 16, subsection (1) be amended by replacing lines 33 to 35 with the following:

“(1) The existing inherent Aboriginal right of self-government, includes legislative authority for band purposes in relation to”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands.

YEAS: 2

NAYS: 9

Charles Hubbard moved, -- That Bill C-7, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing line 33 and 34 on page 10 with the following:

Laws applicable on reserves

16. (1) The council of a band may make laws, applicable on the

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on division.

Charles Hubbard moved, -- That Bill C-7, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 11 with the following:

of the band and the charging of fees for those services;

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was carried on division.

Maurice Vellacott moved, --

That Bill C-7, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing lines 12 and 13 on page 11 with the following:

“(i) residential tenancies, including grounds for and powers of eviction;”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to on division.

At 11:15 p.m., on motion of Maurice Vellacott, it was agreed – That the Committee now adjourn.

At 11:15 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Elizabeth B. Kingston

Clerk of the Committee