INST Committee Meeting
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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
Meeting No. 7
Tuesday, March 27, 2001
The Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology met at 9:05 a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Susan Whelan, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Reg Alcock, Mauril Bélanger, Pierre Brien, John Cannis, Bev Desjarlais, Marlene Jennings, Walt Lastewka, Charlie Penson, James Rajotte, Andy Savoy, Paddy Torsney and Susan Whelan.
Acting Members present: Gilles Duceppe for Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Joe Clark for Scott Brison, Stockwell Day for Preston Manning and Paul Macklin for Dan McTeague.
In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Geoffrey P. Kieley and Dan Shaw, Research Officers.
Witness: From the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters: Jayson Myers, Senior Vice-President and Chief Economist.
At 9:05 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee proceeded to the Statutory Review of the Lobbyists Registration Act.
Jayson Myers made an opening statement and answered questions.
At 10:01 a.m., the Committee proceeded with other business.
The Committee proceeded to the following motion moved by Chuck Strahl on Tuesday, March 20, 2001.
That this Committee send for Mr. Jonas Prince to appear as a witness regarding his ownership of the shares in 161341 Canada Inc.
THE RULING BY THE CHAIR:
I'm now going to rule on the proposed motion that was moved on Thursday, March 22, 2001 by Mr. Strahl that reads:
"Pursuant to Standing Order 108, subsection 2, I move that this Committee send for Mr. Jonas Prince to appear as a witness regarding his ownership of the shares in 161341 Canada Inc."
I've taken the time to carefully review the motion now before this Committee as well as I've reviewed the minutes, meetings, motions and rulings from this Committee in 1999 relating to the same issue now before us again.
I'm going to discuss two points. First, what is the mandate of this Committee; second the inability for a committee, on its own initiative, to inquire into the behaviour of a Member of Parliament.
First, pursuant to 108, subsection 1 of the Standing Orders, the Committee has the power to send for persons but that power should be exercised within the mandate of the Committee as provided by the Standing Order.
Standing Order 108, subsection 2 provides the mandate and stipulates, amongst other things, the following:
The Standing Committees are empowered to study and report on all matters relating to the mandate, management and operation of the department or departments of government which are assigned from time to time by the House.
Strictly speaking the mandate of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology is to monitor thirteen departments and agencies coming within the Industry portfolio.
Also the Lobbyists Registration Act comes within the Industry portfolio as well as the role of the Ethics Counsellor as related specifically to the Lobbyists Registration Act. As such, the Ethics Counsellor reports to the Minister of Industry.
The Ethics Counsellor is also responsible for the administration of the Conflict of interest and post-employment code for public office holders.
Pursuant to section 5.1 of this Code, the Ethics Counsellor reports to the Clerk of the Privy Council and to the Prime Minister.
The question I then ask is whether it is within the mandate of this Committee to invite Mr. Jonas Prince in order to discuss his business dealings with the Prime Minister.
It is not within the mandate of this Committee to examine any questions related to the Conflict of interest in post-employment code for public office holders. In inviting Mr. Prince the Committee will proceed indirectly in doing something it cannot do directly.
With regards to the second point, a Standing Committee can not, on its own initiative, examine the behaviour of a Member of Parliament. The law of privilege provides this can only be done in the House by tabling a substantive motion.
To quote Joseph Maingot in the Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, second edition page 241,
"The conduct of a Member may only be discussed in the House of Commons by way of substantive or distinct motion, i.e. a self-contained proposal submitted for the approval of the House, and drafted in such a way as to be capable of expressing a decision of the House".
This procedure is in place for the rights of all Members of Parliament regardless of their political affiliation. Parliamentary Committees were established to deal with matters of public policy, not the conduct of individual Members of Parliament.
It is my opinion that to proceed further would be damaging to the effective work of Parliamentary Committees, and serve to be damaging to the institution of Parliament as a whole. After careful thought and consideration, and for the above outlined reasons, I rule the motion out of order.
Whereupon, Stockwell Day appealed the decision of the Chair.
And the question being put on the decision, it was sustained on the following division:
YEAS: 9
Reg Alcock
Mauril Bélanger
John Cannis
Marlene Jennings
Walt Lastewka
Paul Macklin
Andy Savoy
Paddy Torsney
Bev Desjarlais
NAYS: 6
Stockwell Day
Charlie Penson
James Rajotte
Pierre Brien
Jocelyne Girard-Bujold
Joe Clark
The Committee proceeded to the following motion moved by Charlie Penson on Thursday, March 22, 2001.
That the Committee hold meetings within the next two weeks on to consider and report on the 2001-02 Main Estimates, Votes 1 and 5 for the Department of Industry;
That the Committee invite the Minister and Ethics Counsellor to appear in the next two weeks and;
That the Minister and Ethics Counsellor provide information relating to future expenditure plans and priorities of the Department.
Charlie Penson moved the following amendment:
That the Minister of Industry be replaced by the Deputy Minister.
After debate, the question being put on the amendment it was defeated by a show of hands
The question being put on the motion, it was agreed on the following division:
YEAS: 9
Mauril Bélanger
Pierre Brien
Bev Desjarlais
Marlene Jennings
Charlie Penson
Gilles Duceppe
Joe Clark
Stockwell Day
NAYS: 6
Reg Alcock
John Cannis
Walt Lastewka
Andy Savoy
Paddy Torsney
Paul Macklin
Pursuant to the two (2) days notice of motion adopted on Wednesday, February 21, 2001, the following motions were moved:
Gilles Duceppe moved:
That François Beaudoin be asked to appear before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology in order to give evidence on the Prime Minister's involvement in the Grand-Mère golf club issue and in the decisions made by the Business Development Bank of Canada regarding the Auberge.
Pierre Brien moved:
That Mélissa Marcotte be asked to appear before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology in order to give evidence on the Auberge Grand-Mère issue.
Joe Clark moved:
That Ms. Debbie Weinstein be called as a witness to the Committee in its examination of the work of the Ethics Counsellor.
Stockwell Day moved:
That this committee send for Mr. Gilles Corriveau to appear as a witness regarding the ownership of the shares in 161341 Canada Inc.
The Chair presented the Budget on Cape Canaveral launch for Thursday, April 19, 2001.
After debate, the question being put on the Budget it was defeated by a show of hands.
At 10:35 a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
Richard Dupuis
Clerk of the Committee