HAFF Committee Meeting
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37th PARLIAMENT, 3rd SESSION
Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs
EVIDENCE
CONTENTS
Thursday, February 5, 2004
| Á | 1100 |
 |
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Committee Clerk) |
|
Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville, CPC) |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
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Mrs. Judi Longfield (Whitby—Ajax, Lib.) |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
Hon. Joe Jordan (Leeds—Grenville, Lib.) |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
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Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP) |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, CPC) |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
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Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
The Chair (Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.)) |
| Á | 1110 |
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Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, CPC) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Lynn Myers (Waterloo—Wellington, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc |
|
The Chair |
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Mrs. Judi Longfield |
|
The Chair |
|
Mr. Garry Breitkreuz |
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The Chair |
| Á | 1115 |
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Mrs. Judi Longfield |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Lynn Myers |
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Mr. Dale Johnston |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Marcel Proulx (Hull—Aylmer, Lib.): |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Michel Guimond |
| Á | 1120 |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Michel Guimond |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Michel Guimond |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Dale Johnston |
|
The Chair |
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Mr. Benoît Sauvageau (Repentigny, BQ) |
|
The Chair |
|
Hon. Roger Gallaway (Sarnia—Lambton, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
CANADA
Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs |
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l |
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l |
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EVIDENCE
Thursday, February 5, 2004
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Á 
(1100)
[Translation]
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Committee Clerk): Honourable committee members, I believe we have a quorum.
[English]
We can now proceed to the election of the chair. I am prepared to receive motions to that effect.
Mr. Breitkreuz.
Mr. Garry Breitkreuz (Yorkton—Melville, CPC): I'd like to nominate Mr. Peter Adams.
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Are there any other nominations?
Seeing none, the motion, then, is that Mr. Adams be elected chair of the committee. Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion?
(Motion agreed to)
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: We will now proceed to the election of the government vice-chair. I am prepared to receive motions to that effect.
Mrs. Longfield.
Mrs. Judi Longfield (Whitby—Ajax, Lib.): I nominate Marcel Proulx.
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Are there any other nominations?
Seeing none, the motion, then, is that
[Translation]
That Mr. Proulx be elected vice-chair for the government.
Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?
(Motion agreed to)
[English]
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: I am now prepared to receive motions to elect an opposition vice-chair.
Mr. Jordan.
Hon. Joe Jordan (Leeds—Grenville, Lib.): I would like to nominate Mr. Garry Breitkreuz.
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Are there any other nominations?
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): I nominate Mr. Chuck Strahl.
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Mr. Nystrom has nominated Mr. Strahl.
Do you accept the nomination?
Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, CPC): Sure, I'll accept the nomination. I'm so flabbergasted that I don't know what to do.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Are there any other nominations?
Seeing none, the nominations are now closed.
[Translation]
Since there is more than one person standing for the position, in accordance with Standing Order 106, we will hold a secret ballot. Allow me to explain the process briefly to you.
[English]
My colleague and I will distribute ballots around the table. Once members have written their choice on the ballots and deposited them in the box, my colleague and I will count the votes and announce the results.
Á (1104)
Á (1107)
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: Having counted the ballots, I am pleased to announce that Mr. Strahl is the opposition vice-chair.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: I now invite Mr. Adams to take the chair.
[Translation]
The Chair (Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.)): Dear colleagues, thank you very much for this honour. It is a great pleasure for me to serve once again as your chairman.
[English]
I'm very grateful to you all. I congratulate the vice-chairs, and I look forward to working with them and with you.
I also want to welcome back, for this new Parliament, our staff, the people who work with us. For new members of the committee, you should know that Jeremy and Carmen are substituting. Thomas Hall is normally our clerk. He will be back next week. He's on a course at the moment.
Jamie, are you going to join us at the table here? Soon? Oh, I see, you aren't the researcher yet.
We'll introduce Jamie Robertson later.
To the other staff who regularly work here with us, I welcome you all and wish you a happy new year.
To our interpreters, the same thing. I liken this place, which is our regular committee room, to a cave, a cave under the House of Commons. In some ways, I also liken it to a cesspool. If any of you are farmers, you will know that a cesspool forms a very important function on farms, and we often perform that function here. Our interpreters work in a cave off of a cave, and I want to thank them for the fine work they do.
Colleagues, we have some routine motions. My suggestion is that we go through them. When we've done that, my thought is that if you have any comments or suggestions.... My general thought is that given the debate on agriculture last night, the sooner we get to setting up the committees, the better. That's something we can't do on our own until we've received the lists from the parties.
My second suggestion is that we set up a steering committee as soon as possible to review our work for the coming months.
Moving to the second page, colleagues, we've elected the opposition vice-chair. Where it says on the agenda, “Services of analysts from the Library of Parliament”, it should read “Jamie Robertson”. So perhaps someone would move that the committee retain the services of one or more analysts from the Library of Parliament, as needed, to assist the committee in its work, at the discretion of the chair.
Á (1110)
Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, CPC): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Would you come and sit by me now, Jamie? I feel very insecure.
This is Jamie Robertson, for those of you who are new to the committee. He has been the analyst-researcher for this committee from well before my time, and I recommend him to you.
Moving to the striking committee.... No, I skipped too far ahead.
Thanks, Jeremy. You're very good at this.
Perhaps someone would move that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure--that's our steering committee--be composed of the chair, the two vice-chairs, and a member of each of the other two parties.
Mr. Lynn Myers (Waterloo—Wellington, Lib.): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Thank you.
Jeremy, how do we get the extra names? Do we get them now, or do we...?
Mr. Jeremy LeBlanc: They are usually provided by the whips.
The Chair: So the whips will provide the extra names, and at the earliest possible opportunity.
I will go to the striking committee now, and the motion that the four whips be delegated the duty to act as the striking committee, pursuant to Standing Orders 104, 113, and 114, and that they be authorized to present directly to the chair, in a report signed by all four whips, their unanimous recommendations for presentation to the House on behalf of the committee.
Mrs. Judi Longfield: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Now, I will again mention the debate of last evening, for those of us who are rural members. With respect to agriculture and agrifood in particular, I do think it's a committee that should be up and running as soon as possible. But really, to my mind, that can't be done until the committees are set up in general, so I would urge all of the parties to submit the names as soon as is humanly possible.
For example, if it were Monday--I doubt we could do it tomorrow--we would then immediately hold a meeting to confirm the lists and to strike the committees so that they can start their work. And it would be a meeting for that purpose only.
Jeremy says that if it's unanimous among all of the parties, I don't have to call the meeting.
As well, Jamie reminds me that there are ten sitting days. I knew that, but I didn't want to remind you, because I think we should get them in before ten sitting days, if it's humanly possible.
So I'll rephrase it. Please get the lists in as soon as possible. When they're in, as long as there's agreement on them and they're signed by the four whips, I can present it to the House.
Thank you for that.
Garry Breitkreuz.
Mr. Garry Breitkreuz: Are there any changes to the standing committees?
The Chair: Hang on a minute.
Does anyone on the Liberal side know that?
The answer, to the best of my knowledge, is no, there are no changes to the standing committees.
For example, Judi, HRDC and the status of persons with disabilities will remain, and you're going to have two departments reporting to you.
Á (1115)
Mrs. Judi Longfield: No, I think four, because labour reports to it and so does children and youth.
My understanding is that there may be a slight change in the name, but the same committees will remain, or the same number of committees, looking after essentially the same things.
The Chair: Garry, the answer is that to the best of our knowledge, no, there will be no changes. They're the same committees with often different people.
The next item deals with the subcommittee on private members' business. Again, for those of you who are new, this is a permanent subcommittee of ours. It deals with the progression through the lists of private members, and makes decisions on whether private members' bills are eligible and that kind of thing. It's very important, by the way, to this committee's work.
The motion proposes that subject to adoption by the House of a list of associate members of the committee, the subcommittee on private members' business be composed of one member from each opposition party and three members from the government party.
Do I need to call that motion now, Jeremy, even though we don't have associate membership?
The point, colleagues, is that until we have the committee lists, we don't have the associate committee names. So I would suggest we leave that. We will move this one at the first meeting.
As James has said, there is some urgency to this. We have to sort out some private members' bills quite quickly.
I do think, Jeremy, that we can't deal with that now.
Are you comfortable with that, colleagues?
Okay, let's move on to the next motion: that the chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive and publish evidence when a quorum is not present, provided that at least three members are present, including one member of the opposition.
Mr. Lynn Myers: I so move.
Mr. Dale Johnston: Is that a standard motion?
The Chair: That's a standard one, yes.
By the way, you will notice that there is no 24 hours' notice motion in this committee, as there is in some. We never have one.
This one we have always had, Dale.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next motion deals with the payment of witnesses' travel and living expenses: that at the discretion of the chair, reasonable travelling expenses, in accordance with the regulation issued by the Board of Internal Economy, be paid, as necessary, to witnesses invited to appear before the committee, and that for such payment of expenses a limit of one representative per organization be set, unless otherwise decided by the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, which is our steering committee.
Mr. Marcel Proulx (Hull—Aylmer, Lib.): I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next motion deals with the distribution of documents with translation: that the clerk of the committee be authorized to distribute to the members of the committee documents only when they exist in both official languages.
Michel Guimond.
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ): There's something I'd like to say first.
The Chair: Certainly, but you are moving the motion, is that not correct?
Mr. Michel Guimond: No, not at this time. I'd like to say something first.
Á (1120)
The Chair: One moment. Judy Longfield proposes that we debate the matter.
Mr. Michel Guimond: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don't know if I want to amend the motion, or if I want your assurance that what happened in the past won't happen again. In Quebec, we have the motto Je me souviens, or I remember. Sometimes, people forget, but I haven't forgotten what happened. A witness who arrived with a unilingual English submission took pains to ensure that copies of the document were placed on our desks, when in fact the document was not available in both official languages. Francophones like myself found themselves at a considerable disadvantage. I don't know whether I care to amend this motion in this manner, but I want assurances that a similar incident won't happen again. In any event, after some initial reticence, you came around to my point of view. We will likely be hearing from witnesses in the weeks ahead, and it would be unfortunate if the usual harmony and consensus that prevails on this committee...I'm trying to avoid any potential confrontations in the future.
[English]
The Chair: I too remember the incident with some embarrassment.
For new colleagues, what happened was exactly what Michel said. A witness, who was in the room before I was, placed at every member's seat something that was in English only. By the time I was advised it was there, and this is what I would do in future--I should have ordered them picked up whether people had read them or not. I strongly agree that the material should be available in both official languages without the slightest pressure on people in either language.
So I will undertake, first of all, that this motion will be carried out. And should such a thing happen by people who are not on the committee, I will undertake to see that the documents are removed, and appropriately translated and circulated again at a later date.
Would that satisfy you, Michel?
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Guimond: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since I have tremendous confidence in you, not to mention great respect for you, I am satisfied with your explanations and commitments.
[English]
The Chair: On Judy Longfield's motion, those in favour?
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Next is working meals. This is a good one, but Thomas is not here. He was getting better as a chef as time went on.
The motion is that the clerk of the committee be authorized to make the necessary arrangements to provide for working meals for the committee and its subcommittees.
Mr. Dale Johnston: Are we talking about every committee?
The Chair: This is for this committee and the subcommittee we will have and any other subcommittee we might have.
It is moved by Dale Johnston. Those in favour?
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Next is in camera meeting transcripts. The motion is that one copy of the transcript of all in camera meetings be kept in the committee clerk's office for consultation by members of the committee.
It is moved by Lynn Myers.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Colleagues, again, as I indicated earlier, my sense is that there are actually two things in play here. The sooner we have a steering committee meeting the better, and I would suggest our regular time on Tuesday for such a meeting. However, given the importance of getting the committees started, it may be in that connection that we might have to call some sort of a meeting, perhaps to set up a subcommittee or something of that sort. But apart from that, my thought is that the next meeting of this committee will be the steering committee, and it will be Tuesday at 11 o'clock in this room. Are you comfortable with that, colleagues? Okay. Can I urge all the parties to put their lists in as soon possible?
Benoît Sauvageau.
[Translation]
Mr. Benoît Sauvageau (Repentigny, BQ): I may not be here to discuss future business. Most likely Mr. Guimond will be present.
Mr. Chairman, correct me if I'm wrong, but yesterday, Mr. Saada released a plan of action to address the democratic deficit. I'd simply like to suggest to committee members that they consider following up on certain committee reports to correct this democratic deficit. I would suggest focussing on unanimous reports, for example, the report of the Human Resources Development Committee on employment insurance and some of the reports of the Official Languages committee. In other words, when House of Commons committees table unanimous reports, our committee could follow up on the findings to correct the democratic deficit a little.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you. I will take that under advisement with the steering committee. The action plan was something I already had on the list, but members of the steering committee, including Michel if he is there, can raise it. That is now on the record, and we know what you said and we will consider it at that time.
Roger Gallaway.
Hon. Roger Gallaway (Sarnia—Lambton, Lib.): I was just wondering, Mr. Chairman, if perhaps--and this is totally selfish, it's about my schedule next week because I want to go away--one could proceed with a meeting for the adoption of the striking committee report next week.
The Chair: By the way, I was advised that we don't need this. Let me explain, though. I mention it again because there is some urgency on the matter of private members' business, which concerns people here. So we likely don't need the meeting in fact as long as the whips have agreed to the lists--they have all signed them. We can strike those committees, but we might need a very short meeting to formally establish the subcommittee on private members' business, in which case, with due respect, we don't need you.
Gary has two motions. As I mentioned to you, we don't have a 24-hour motions rule here, so your colleagues, or whoever is going to be on the steering committee, could bring these forward then and at the first meeting you could formally speak to them, if that's okay with you. I would much sooner do that, because this affects future business and the steering committee will be considering it Tuesday.
Are you comfortable with that?
The point, colleagues, is that Gary has some motions here. My suggestion simply is that the steering committee will consider them. He can speak to them at the first regular meeting of the committee.
The meeting is adjourned.