HERI Committee Meeting

37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION

Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Wednesday, November 27, 2002

¼

1805

The Chair (Mr. Clifford Lincoln (Lac-Saint-Louis, Lib.))

¼

1810

¼

1815

Mr. Paul Quassa (Senior Producer, Inuit Broadcasting Corporation)

¼

1820

¼

1825

The Chair

Ms. Shirley Adamson (General Manager, Northern Native Broadcasting, Yukon)

The Chair

Ms. Shirley Adamson

¼

1830

¼

1835

The Chair

Ms. Wendy Smith (Executive Director, Inuvialuit Communications Society)

The Chair

Mr. George Kakayuk (President, Taqramiut Nipingat Incorporated)

¼

1840

The Chair

Mr. George Kakayuk

¼

1845

The Chair

Mr. Raymond Menarick (President, James Bay Cree Communications Society)

¼

1850

The Chair

Mr. Bernard Hervieux (Director General, Société de communication Atikamekw-Montagnais)

¼

1855

½

1900

The Chair

½

1905

Ms. Catherine Ann Martin (Secretary and Board Member, Aboriginal Peoples Television Network)

The Chair

Ms. Catherine Ann Martin

½

1910

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.))

Mrs. Elizabeth Sabet-Biscaye (Executive Director, Native Communications Society of the Western N.W.T.)

½

1915

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Dave McLeod (Executive Director, Native Communications Incorporated)

½

1920

½

1925

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Peter Skinner (Program Manager, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation)

½

1930

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Cathie Bolstad (Regional Director, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation)

½

1935

½

1940

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Christiane Gagnon (Québec, BQ)

½

1945

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Catherine Ann Martin

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Wendy Lill (Dartmouth, NDP)

½

1950

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Paul Quassa

Mr. Bert Crowfoot (General Manager, Aboriginal Multi-Media Society of Alberta)

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Shirley Adamson

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Claude Duplain (Portneuf, Lib.)

½

1955

Mr. Bernard Hervieux

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Bernard Hervieux

¾

2000

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Bernard Hervieux

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Christiane Gagnon

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Ms. Christiane Gagnon

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Bernard Hervieux

¾

2005

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Bernard Hervieux

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mrs. Elizabeth Sabet-Biscaye

¾

2010

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Bert Crowfoot

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Dave McLeod

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

Mr. Claude Duplain

The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick)

---

CANADA

Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage

---

NUMBER 006

l

2nd SESSION

l

37th PARLIAMENT

---

EVIDENCE

Wednesday, November 27, 2002

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

¼  (1805)  

[English]

    The Chair (Mr. Clifford Lincoln (Lac-Saint-Louis, Lib.)): Let me call the meeting to order, please. You can come to the table.

    I'd like to declare open the meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. We meet today to continue to study the state of the Canadian broadcasting system.

    We are especially pleased tonight to be able to greet so many of you from the aboriginal communities. The committee had decided to travel north to meet with you at a fixed time, which we managed to get accepted by the House of Commons. It's a very protracted business to get travel arrangements done, and we had the budget approved and we had the travel approbation from the House of Commons.

    Unfortunately, the House was prorogued in September, as you know, and when the House gets prorogued everything is cancelled, we start all over again. So by the time we resumed our work in October it was far too late to file another request. Our operational budget was only approved yesterday and no travel budget has been approved as yet. It would have been impossible for us at this time, considering the pressures and the commitments of the committee, to travel up north.

    So we are extremely grateful for this opportunity to meet with you tonight. We really appreciate your presence here. We've been able to organize it so that some of you were already in Ottawa and others have made the trip especially to be here.

    I would like to make sure, before we start, that all of the organizations that want to be heard and on the record are sitting around the table. So I will check with you before we start and before you speak, and I would like to greet you at the same time.

    Our first speakers are Paul Quassa, who is a senior producer, and Debbie Brisebois, the executive director of the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation. Then, our second speakers would be from the Northern Native Broadcasting, Yukon, Shirley Adamson and Les Carpenter.

¼  (1810)  

    Then we have a third group of speakers. From the Inuvialuit Communications Society we have Wendy Smith, executive director. After that we have Claude Grenier, director general, and George Kakayuk, president, from Taqramiut Nipingat Incorporated. After that we have the James Bay Cree Communications Society, Raymond Menarick, president, followed by la Société de communication Atikamekw-Montagnais, Bernard Hervieux, directeur général. Then we have Native Communications Incorporated, Dave McLeod, executive director. Finally, there's the CBC northern region: Peter Skinner, program manager for CBC North Radio, and Cathie Bolstad, regional director for Television for the North.

    Again, a very warm welcome to the House of Commons and to our committee.

    We'll give the floor to Paul Quassa.

¼  (1815)  

    Mr. Paul Quassa (Senior Producer, Inuit Broadcasting Corporation): I am pleased to have this opportunity to address the committee. I particularly thank you for this special session to hear our views and listen to our recommendations for the future.

    I work for the Inuit Broadcasting Corporation in Iqaluit, Nunavut. Iqaluit is our main production centre, and there we package our shows with segments contributed from our smaller centres located in Igloolik, Baker Lake, Rankin Inlet, and Taloyoak.

    Currently we produce Qaggiq, a half-hour current affairs show; Takuginai, a half-hour children's show; Kippinguitatit, another half-hour culture and entertainment show; and Qajisaut, a half-hour show geared to youth. Once a week we produce a one and a half-hour live phone-in show from Iqaluit called Qanuq Isumavut, which is broadcast to northern regions only. All our shows are produced in Inuktitut, our language, and are broadcast on APTN.

    We also produce various special shows throughout the course of a broadcast season. For example, we produced four special programs on the Inuit Circumpolar Conference that was held in Kuujjuaq, Quebec, just this past August.

    We're now finishing off a two-part documentary about Kikkik, an Inuit woman who killed a man in self-defence during the famine in the Kivalliq region of the Arctic in the 1950s; she was tried for murder and was subsequently acquitted.

    We are beginning to work on a new series, Inuit Mitatiin, featuring the very unique humour of our favourite Inuit comedians.

    I'm proud of what we are doing at IBC. I am proud of the people who work for IBC and overcome obstacles day after day in order to get their shows done. We deal with equipment that is old and that breaks down. It often must be sent to southern cities to be fixed, and sometimes it takes months until we see it again. A lot of our equipment cannot even be fixed anymore; parts no longer exist. We deal with equipment that is subjected to the harshest of weather conditions. We work in buildings that were never intended to be television facilities of any fashion. Although we are creative, there is only so much you can do to turn an old pinball hall into a television studio.

    We deal with the most expensive travel costs in this country. We have 26 communities in Nunavut that should be reflected in our shows, but each year we are only able to travel to a few communities and usually only for a short time.

    We are limited in our access to training. There are no broadcast training facilities or journalism schools in Nunavut. There are no seminars or workshops in our industry unless we organize and pay for all associated costs ourselves.

    IBC staff are generally paid below what is industry standard anywhere in the country, and we live in an area where everything costs twice as much as anywhere else. We do not have the benefits that major employers in Nunavut give, such as housing, pension plans, vacation assistance, etc. We do not have stability in our funding. Our ability to plan is limited and our job security is limited.

¼  (1820)  

    What we do have, though, is strong commitment to what we are doing, providing a service that no one else can or does. Our language and culture is strong despite forces that have attempted to weaken us--the church, the residential school system, and indeed the proliferation of television signals available in our communities, to name a few.

    We also have a desire to do more than what we are doing, or we feel that our efforts will be no more than a token. In the early 1990s we were producing almost twice as much programming as we are today. Our original goal in the 1980s was to produce 25 hours per week of Inuktitut programming. That is what we determined, based on our research and experience, would be required to provide Inuit with a balanced service to offset the bombardment of southern television, and that was before the 500 channel universe.

    Our goal remains our goal. We worked diligently through the 1980s and 1990s to not only produce our shows, but to work as partners to create our own distribution network, Television Northern Canada, and subsequently to be a major player in the formation of a national aboriginal network, APTN. Our goal now is to continue to work diligently within APTN to shape and mould a distinct northern feed. However, we need resources to create the programs necessary to provide such a service. I'll not go into great detail about what exactly we need. Certainly, there are piles of documents, studies, reports, evaluations, etc., that contain all the details.

    We have just spent the last three days with our colleagues from across the northern part of this country discussing the issues that are preventing us from further meaningful participation in the Canadian broadcasting system. I urge the committee members to review the proceedings of these meetings when they are available along with the supporting document we have been working with. It is my hope that the northern native broadcast access program will be revitalized and then our role as a public service provider will be accorded its rightful place.

    In a broad sense we need the government to look at northern aboriginal broadcasting much the same way the Canadian magazine industry was looked at several years ago in response to threats from foreign publishers, new technologies, and increasing industry challenges. The research is in place and has been for almost three years now.

    I might add that we need funds for new equipment and the associated training and maintenance costs. We need access to training designed to meet our needs in our language and in our communities. We need funding that is based on industry standards with consideration given to our unique geographic location. We need funding that would allow us to develop new television series in response to audience trends. We need resources to objectively hear from our viewers. We need funding so that we can participate more fully in the Canadian broadcasting system.

¼  (1825)  

    We want our children, youth, and elders to see themselves and hear their voices on television. We want them to see the same quality in our shows as they see in other Canadian television programs. We remain true to our mandate of producing programs for Inuit, about Inuit, and by Inuit in our language.

    We would like to explore ways of sharing our shows with non-Inuktitut-speaking audiences. We want them to see and hear news items from our communities about our issues on APTN national news and indeed other television networks.

    We want to be able to develop new program series and feature films for our people. We need a larger amount of funds in the aboriginal language envelope of Telefilm and the Canadian Television Fund and the cap removed. As you know, currently the cap is $200,000.

    We want to see, and have all Canadians and the rest of the world see, more films like Atanarjuat. We want to train and provide more Inuit with the opportunity to produce such award-winning shows.

    To conclude, the research has been done. Evaluations have proven that we have been successful. Studies document the issues. Audience surveys confirm our value. Regulatory and legislative support exists in CRTC policy and the 1991 Broadcasting Act, which specifically recognizes the special place of aboriginal peoples within Canadian society. From task forces to royal commissions, our role as aboriginal broadcasters has been affirmed. It is now time to ensure that resources are made available to support our contribution to the Canadian broadcasting system.

    Thank you very much.

    The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Quassa. As you know, this is being televised, so I hope that many thousands of Canadians from the south are watching and hearing your very moving words.

    I didn't want to ask you to accelerate your presentation because I imagine that many of the things you are saying apply to all of you here. But in the interest of time, since we're finishing at 8 o'clock and it's now 6:30, and in order to give all intervenors a chance to speak--there are six or seven more groups to be heard from--if you could confine your remarks to a maximum of 10 minutes each, it would be appreciated.

    I would now like to turn to Northern Native Broadcasting, Shirley Adamson or Les Carpenter. I don't know who is going to speak.

    Ms. Shirley Adamson (General Manager, Northern Native Broadcasting, Yukon): That would be me, Mr. Lincoln.

    The Chair: All right, Ms. Adamson.

    Ms. Shirley Adamson: Thank you very much.

     The members and the board of directors of Northern Native Broadcasting, Yukon, extend their greetings and their appreciation for the opportunity to present to the standing committee our views on the state of the Canadian broadcasting system.

    My name is Shirley Adamson. I'm the general manager of our organization. With me today is the director of radio, Les Carpenter.

    Almost two decades ago, the Minister of Communications, the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, and the Secretary of State announced the northern broadcasting policy and the northern native broadcast access program. This initiative provided us with the avenue by which we could make program choices, programs relevant to our concerns, and access to distribution systems.

    Since then, Northern Native Broadcasting, Yukon, has taken full advantage. Through both our radio and television service, we provide programming that is relevant, timely, and from an objective aboriginal perspective. We highlight the indigenous peoples, languages, and cultures in a way that has not been done by any other broadcaster.

    For the Yukon first nations people, who have an oral tradition, these media were quickly embraced. Each day we provide original programming through which our people can enjoy, learn from, and be inspired by each other's talents and stories. Our independent news and current affairs coverage enables all Yukoners to have an informed and educated view of a range of contemporary issues from an aboriginal perspective.

    We have an impressive audio and video archive that documents a disappearing era in the history of our people and the development of a new, contemporary form of aboriginal culture that combines our heritage with an active role in Yukon and Canadian society.

    Of the eight dialects spoken in the Yukon, at least five are used continually in our programming. The immersion underpins the teachings of languages and cultures in our homes and in our schools.

    We train and employ aboriginal people in an industry that would not be otherwise open to them. We put our people in offices, behind microphones, and in front of and in back of the television cameras. This demonstrates to our youth that careers in broadcasting and journalism are within their reach.

    Senior management within our organization is almost entirely first nation, including the general manager, the directors of radio, television, and finance. These successes have been hard won and our challenges are still many. Attracting individuals who have strong potential as broadcasters, journalists, and technicians is difficult when the income offered is below what they could earn from other employers and the benefits are almost non-existent.

    Maintaining our aging distribution system makes it challenging for us to expand the reach of our radio network to all Yukon first nation communities and individuals. We are distracted from coordinating with other aboriginal broadcasters' increased quality programming and increased distribution.

    Valuable archival material recorded in formats that are deteriorating with age is a critical issue with us. This irreplaceable material must be preserved. It needs to be transferred to digital form, but we do not have the resources, human or otherwise, available to us.

    Financing production of quality television and radio programming that often includes translation and subtitling, with existing federal funding, increases our concern regarding the impact of requirements such as closed captioning and the substantial additional expenses that brings.

    We have not let these challenges overcome us, though. We continue to play an important and necessary role in maintaining, enhancing and promoting aboriginal languages and cultures in this country.

¼  (1830)  

    We believe our emergence as a true public broadcaster with the Yukon first nations community is an example of the need for Canadian broadcasting legislation to be amended to reflect the critical and specific role for aboriginal broadcast organizations. We contribute in a vital way to the strengthening of Canadian culture as a whole, and I hope you agree that it's time for this to be formally recognized.

    Change is constant for first nations. We're almost overwhelmed with the cultures and languages of other people. We struggle daily to maintain our identity. Because of that, we understand the desire of Canada to seek ways to safeguard, enrich, and strengthen what they see as their cultural fabric. We know also that the fabric is not whole without the languages and cultures of first nations woven in.

    Although this committee has not yet been able to travel to the north, we encourage you to continue to try. We'd like you to see first-hand what we've been able to accomplish with the resources provided us by the federal government.

    I'd like to once again extend our appreciation, on behalf of the board of directors, for this opportunity to summarize our issues and concerns. If there are any questions, both Les and I will be happy to try to answer them.

    Thank you.

¼  (1835)  

    The Chair: Thank you for your beautiful message. It's really a joy to listen to both of you.

    Now we'll turn to Ms. Wendy Smith, from the Inuvialuit Communications Society.

    Ms. Wendy Smith (Executive Director, Inuvialuit Communications Society): Thank you for this opportunity tonight to meet with you.

    I'm the executive director of the Inuvialuit Communications Society in Inuvik, Northwest Territories, the television programs that are broadcast on APTN.

    I've come before the standing committee to be heard as an aboriginal broadcaster. While I'm here to speak and make a presentation, I would like to send a written formal submission at a later date.

    I am requesting your support and commitment in recognizing the importance of our existence, and the achievements and successes in more than excelling at promoting aboriginal language, culture, history, and traditional knowledge. This program was created out of the initiatives of this government, to enrich and strengthen cultural values in Canada.

    We have contributed to Canadian society, and have provided 20 years of programming that reflects the entire native representation of aboriginal people. Not only have we succeeded in the objectives, we have contributed to the promotion of other government initiatives in the areas of education, health, social welfare, tourism, arts, economic development, safety measures, and other important aboriginal initiatives in language and culture.

    It has been more than difficult to continue operations with cutbacks introduced in 1999-2000. Aboriginal broadcasters need your support in the rejuvenation of the vital role we play in serving the needs and interests of aboriginal people, and continuing to give us the means to link us with mainstream Canada.

    We have survival needs in equipment and training. Also very important to us is the archival preservation of the invaluable programs we have produced in our language. In recognition of the contribution that aboriginal broadcasters have made to this program, we would like the support of the standing committee to amend the Broadcasting Act to identify and enrich us in legislation.

    I would like to invite you to Inuvik, if your travel permits, to see where we come from.

    Thank you.

    The Chair: Thank you very much.

    There seems to be a constancy in all your messages, which reinforces them, so that's very interesting to hear.

    I would like to call on George Kakayuk, the president of Taqramiut Nipingat.

    Mr. George Kakayuk (President, Taqramiut Nipingat Incorporated): Thank you.

    [Witness speaks in his native language]

    My name is George Kakayuk. I'm president of TNI, Taqramiut Nipingat Incorporated, an Inuit communications society in Nunavik, in northern Quebec, the arctic Quebec.

¼  (1840)  

    The Chair: I'm sorry, we're having problems with our microphones. As you can see, our equipment is not much better than yours.

    Please go ahead.

    Mr. George Kakayuk: Okay.

    As you know, we got notice that we were supposed to appear before the committee just before we came to Ottawa. In fact, I found out when I got to Montreal on Monday. So we haven't had time to formally put our thoughts and views on native broadcasting—or broadcasting in general—into a formal submission. So we would like to have an opportunity to do that, maybe in the coming months.

    The Chair: Any time, sure.

    Mr. George Kakayuk: I also would like to invite you to our region. All of the concerns raised here apply to us, too. We're in the same boat.

    But we do produce Inuktitut programming on both regional radio and television, which are shown through APTN. It is in our language, Inuktitut. We also provide technical support to local FM radio in fourteen communities in our region. We also provide training to meet the needs of their employees. We don't get any support from the federal government; we do this by fundraising and whatnot. We have some television employees in three locations, and have our regional radio in one location, Salluit. We train our producers to become better broadcasters. Once in a while, we and our regional organizations get help from the schools' training programs.

    We have been a major player since the beginning of northern broadcasting: we are one of the original groups who started the movement. So we'd like to have an opportunity to come before you, formally, with our thoughts and views on northern broadcasting, or on broadcasting in general. We'd like to be given an opportunity, so we would like to invite you to our region. It's important to us; it's important for our people. We are on the front line. There are no other services up there: we are the providers in our language.

    Thank you again.

¼  (1845)  

    The Chair: Thank you very much.

    I would like to mention something to all of you. In fact, I should have done it when Mr. Quassa spoke, because he referred to the many studies they'd done. Whatever you would like to send to our researchers, just send the documentation to our clerk here. If you have additional thoughts, or if you want to present a formal brief, feel very free to do this. I should mention that we are going to be closing our documentation by the end of January, so we would appreciate it if you could send whatever you want during the months of December and January. Thank you.

    I will now turn to Raymond Menarick, president of the James Bay Cree Communications Society.

    Mr. Raymond Menarick (President, James Bay Cree Communications Society): [Witness speaks in his native language]

    I was talking in Cree so that it could be heard in this building. It is the language that we speak at home and at work, when we broadcast on the radio.

    My name is Raymond Menarick, and I'm the president of the James Bay Cree Communications Society. We too came to Ottawa to work on the evaluation process of the northern native broadcast access program. The funding we receive from this program is vital to our existence and the service we provide to the nine Cree communities. Simply put, without this program we could not go on. The cutbacks and funding over the years have forced us to adjust accordingly, and it is a testament to our resilience that we did survive.

    This is why we came when requested to participate in the preparation to evaluate the program. We were surprised when this opportunity to make a direct presentation to this committee was organized. We found out about it as we were making our way here. We are making this presentation to be heard, for only we can talk about Cree programming, and we request that we be given the opportunity to present, at a later date, in written format a more detailed response to the questions you have raised.

    We appreciate the opportunity brought before us, and we want at this time just to focus this presentation on one very important point of reference in the statement in the Broadcasting Act, which is to safeguard, enrich, and strengthen the cultural fabric of Canada.

    The mandate of the society and the nine local Cree community radio stations affiliated with our network is to help protect and preserve the Cree language. Our radio programming services about 12,000 Cree people. Cree is still the first language spoken in 95% of the homes, therefore the James Bay Cree Communications Society's programming tries to reflect this actuality by broadcasting only in the Cree language.

    Our elders have taught us that our language is the foundation of our culture, and in order to sustain it we cannot take it for granted but must use it continuously. In order to maintain this we must use the influence of radio media.

    Of the many things we have taken from the non-native culture, the radio is one of the most important. The Crees must deal with the dominant languages and cultures at our doorsteps, just as all other first nations do, and where are their languages today? A report on languages not long ago stated that only about three first nations languages in this country have a chance of surviving. Cree is one of those languages, and we have made radio work using it.

    Cree radio drama is starting to be heard. Considering the very descriptive nature of Cree language, as used by our elders in their stories, we are looking forward to when we will not be translating from another language but making productions using totally Cree thought processes from the beginning. The knowledge and wisdom of our people must be maintained and recorded in its original form. Most of it has already been lost with the passing of many elders, but fortunately we have recorded a lot over the years. The strength of our language, and the number of people still following a culture of hunting and trapping, means we still have resources today.

    This is our history, this is our heritage, this is what we can give to the rest of Canada. Therefore, everything possible must be done to protect and safeguard the original cultures and languages still existing in Canada today.

    We invite you to visit our region and to see what we do and to listen to our concerns.

    Thank you.

¼  (1850)  

    The Chair: Thank you very much.

    Monsieur Bernard Hervieux, Société de communication Atikamekw-Montagnais.

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux (Director General, Société de communication Atikamekw-Montagnais): [Witness speaks in his native language]

[Translation]

    I would like to thank the members of the committee and the chairman for inviting us. This evening I will just try to give you an overview of our organization. Like my other colleague, I did not really have time to prepare a text or to answer all the questions you asked in your correspondence; I saw it last week, but I probably received it November 19^th. So we really did not have time to seriously look at the study you are doing on the new policy or on the results of the consultation.

    Aborogonal community radio started in 1977, thanks mainly to the aboriginal radio funding program set up by the Quebec Department of Communications.

    This program met the needs of aboriginal people to communicate in their own language and to produce radio news programs at a local level. A number of initiatives led to the creation of several community radio stations in the Montagnais communities.

    in 1979, the community radio stations in La Romaine and Natashquan started broadcasting. In the following years, all of the Atikamekws and Montagnais communities set up their own community radio stations. Each of them was independent and functioned independently. Local representatives noticed that many communities shared the same needs; they also saw the advantages of sharing content and the potential effectiveness gains to be achieved by combining their resources and establishing direct, permanent ties between the aboriginal communities.

    The willingness to consolidate resources and the need to share programs led to the creation of a radio production centre in the Huron village of Wendake in November 1980. The news programs were pre-recorded and then mailed to the local Atikamekw and Montagnais stations. The embryonic phase of a first network was thus launched.

    In January 1982, Radio-Canada established the Northern Radio Broadcasting Service in Quebec. In 1983, the Atikamekw and Montagnais communities decided to combine their community radio stations and create a network of community radio stations whose centre of activity would be in Wendake, a Huron village in the suburbs of Quebec City.

    These communities then created a non-profit corporation, which was incorporated under part III of the Canada Corporations Act and was given the name of Société de communication Atikamekw-Montagnais.

    One of its founding members, Mr. Ghislain Picard, became its first chief executive officer; he is now National Vice-Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Canada. He is also Regional Chief of the Assembly of First Nations of Quebec-Labrador. This incorporation enabled the radio production centre to ensure its independence and autonomy, as well as those of community stations.

    In February 1985, SOCAM set up two regional production centres in La Tuque, the Mauricie region, and in Sept-Îles, on the North Shore. The centre in the Huron village was kept and it continued in its vocation of establishing ties between the two nations and overseeing all of the operations.

    Thanks to the Northern Native Broadcasting Access Program, the NNBAP, SOCAM decided to modify its distribution service in order to acquire greater independence and improve efficiency, and got involved in satellite transmission.

¼  (1855)  

It reached an agreement with Telesat Canada to use the Anik E2 satellite.

    In 1993, SOCAM had to close its two regional production centres in La Tuque and Sept-Îles, and streamline its activities and staff in Huron Village because of major budget cuts that affected the financing of its operations.

    Since then, SOCAM has moved into the areas of information technologies and communications, multimedia and television production.

    SOCAM's mission is to oversee broadcasting, information and communications networks that offer a range of informative, cultural and educational programs to the Atikamekw and Innu communities in both of their languages. It strives to provide media coverage through a network of diversified services to encourage community development and to help promote their language and their culture.

    The SOCAM wants to improve communications between the various communities through newspapers, magazines, radio and television programs, films, and basically any written, spoken or visual communications tools; provide live broadcasting of news programs on aboriginal issues pertaining to culture, the economy and community life in the language of each of those two nations; involve community radio stations in the business' organizational activities; provide technical support and training to local stations to ensure proper rebroadcasting of the network's programs; launch projects designed to improve communications and relationships between aboriginal peoples, between the two nations and between member communities by using new information technologies and communications; operate a broadcasting network for 14 local member stations; establish cooperative and complementary ties with local community radio stations; organize adequate programming that reflects the Atikamekw and Innu culture; inform the locals of major news events that directly affect them; provide local radio stations and their staff with adequate equipment, tools and communication techniques; implement training programs; provide translation and interpretation services; design a television production centre; develop community access via Internet to new information technologies and communications technologies by implementing multimedia access centres for communities—and I could name 23 or 24 communities in Quebec—; implement communication services and infrastructures to support initiatives pertaining to health, learning and community access to cover social and community activities, a project that was in fact taken over by Industry Canada.

    I will stop there. I see, Mr. Chairman, that you are signaling to me; I understand that sign from the radio industy, but we do plan to present another document that is along the same lines as your research.

    [The witness speaks Inuktitut]

    Once again I would invite you to come and visit our region so that we can tell the committee what we think about this new broadcasting policy that is currently under review in this country and so that we can provide some input.

½  (1900)  

    I am very pleased to be here and to contribute to your work. All I can say to you today is thank you very much.

    [The witness speaks Inuktitut]

    The Chair: Thank you for being so eloquent. For someone who did not have time to prepare anything, you spoke extremely well.

[English]

    Just before I turn it over to the APTN, I think we met you in Halifax, Ms. Martin, is that right?

½  (1905)  

    Ms. Catherine Ann Martin (Secretary and Board Member, Aboriginal Peoples Television Network): Yes, you did.

    The Chair: Before we turn it over to you, I should mention to the witnesses that I was committed to a parliamentary assignment several weeks ago with the OSCE, so I have to leave you. My colleague, Paul Bonwick, who is vice-chair of the committee, will chair the rest of the session.

    For my part , I would like to thank you very, very much for being here and for your testimony, which is extremely important. We'll certainly take it into account, you can be sure.

    Thank you very much.

    Ms. Catherine Ann Martin: Thank you, Mr. Lincoln. I didn't think you'd recognize me. I thought I could sneak in without you knowing I had already spoken to you.

    I'd like to thank everybody once again for inviting us to this table. I did make a presentation in Halifax to this committee. I know the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network has made a formal presentation and submission, as have many of our directors from the southern regions across the country. I took this opportunity to support the northern native broadcasting associations and to show the solidarity we have with the pioneers of aboriginal television and broadcasting in this country.

    So I want to say, just briefly, that we acknowledge and recognize the contribution of these northern groups, not only to the aboriginal broadcasting world but towards the Canadian identity and fabric of this country. They have been, against all odds and in many difficult situations, continuing to tell the stories and follow the traditions of our people by repeating to our children those stories, which are thousands of years old.

    Radio, television, and print have been some of the more recent and powerful forms--more recent in the last 500 years versus the last 10,500 years. It's a medium that's helping us to make sure that the future, and seven generations ahead of us, will have something from our people today.

    That said, I just want to say how proud I am to be part of this history today, in the hopes that our future generations will know, as we have learned from the treaties and ancestors, that they placed very important words and thoughts into our future. This, of course, is just a continuation of that.

    One of our group that is missing and is represented in all that you're hearing is the OKalaKatiget Societyfrom Labrador. They are living proof of some of the struggles we have on a regular basis trying to get to meetings like this or shoot stories. They've been snowbound since Friday, trying to come here. Because they're from the east and my region, I would like to invite you, on behalf of them, to the coastal communities of Labrador and Newfoundland, to witness for yourself the struggle that even such a small coast has in trying to get cameras and people back and forth to tell those stories.

    As well, they share the same conditions and problems, like lack of plumbing in the facilities out of which they broadcast. I think you need to be there to understand what people will do, against all odds, to continue this history.

    I mentioned in Halifax that what is so important to me is that we don't get left unprepared for the future, and the future is here. One out of every four Canadians being born today is aboriginal. That number is only going to continue to increase. It is now that we have to be prepared, not in the future. We need to prepare now for the impact that has.

    Communication has incredible opportunities, powers, and abilities to offer Canada some of the solutions and answers that are required in order to be prepared for the impact of one out of four Canadians today being born aboriginal, as well as the already large demographic and percentage of aboriginal youth in our country.

½  (1910)  

    We have a solution and a lot of the answers to help make sure that in the next 500 years things are done in such a way that we can begin to heal some of those past wounds, wounds that none of us can change today but might be able to resolve for the future.

    Gee, I think I said all I had to say.

    On behalf of the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, the NNBAP members are an integral part of the reason we exist. They have offered to become APTN from the TVNC. We won't forget that, but we're also striving toward both our unity as one and to acknowledge that there are very different languages, communities, and societies that cannot be put together in one group.

    Before I finish, here are three of the many reports that have been done on the north, the most recent being a report dated October 2002, on aboriginal and public broadcasting in Canada. The other two have been incorporated into this most recent document. All are available through Canadian Heritage, because for the most part they have been commissioned by that department, along with the Secretary of State and so on. You're hearing that we require continuing research funding to make sure that not only are we researched but that from there action is taken.

    Time is of the essence. This particular report will be presented to the country in four years' time. We've already lost too many tapes from just the mere fact of their not surviving ten years. We need immediately to find a way to get all of our communities to start transferring their stories and having them preserved correctly, which would help all of Canada to understand who we are.

    Thank you.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick (Simcoe—Grey, Lib.)): Thank you, Catherine.

    Before we go to the next witness, I'd just like to say that the committee recognizes that with a small window of time it's difficult to cover off all of your points, but rest assured that your written submissions will get proper consideration. Just about every witness who comes forward to the committee also prepares a written submission, and all of my colleagues review those before they draw any conclusions.

    The next presentation will be from the Native Communications Society of the Western NWT.

    Elizabeth.

    Mrs. Elizabeth Sabet-Biscaye (Executive Director, Native Communications Society of the Western N.W.T.): [Witness speaks in her native language]

    What I said was that I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you about this very important service that we provide, and I thank you very much.

    I am the executive director of the Native Communications Society of the NWT. The NCS, as it's known, was incorporated in 1972. We provide radio and television programming in our Dene languages to the 27 communities in the NWT, minus those that are having equipment problems at the moment, which is about six of them.

    This review comes at the right time, because tremendous changes are occurring in communications, political development, new technologies, and so forth that have to be addressed. Any changes you make to the Canadian broadcasting system should reflect the changes that have occurred, including the role of the aboriginal broadcasters, because we provide a very vital service.

    One area in which this review should impact is NNBAP, because it provides vital funding to the aboriginal broadcasters, which allows the aboriginal broadcasters to provide an essential service. It is essential because without it a lot of information wouldn't get to the intended recipients of those government programs. They include non-aboriginal people as well as aboriginal people, because we also inform them about us, as a people. It develops a certain level of awareness and understanding.

    Our services are not just about music, weather reports, and road reports, even though in the NWT those are vital. They're also about keeping people informed and giving them the opportunity to take part in things that are happening, such as decision making. We make sure they are kept updated on current affairs, so when they have an opportunity like this to speak to issues, they understand what they are about, because they've heard it not just from their aboriginal perspective, but also, in a lot of cases, in their language.

    Traditionally, we are storytellers. Radio, TV, and in some cases the newspapers give us the medium to do so effectively, in a lot of cases in our own language. Unfortunately, because of limited funding and other limited resources, we are continually struggling to maintain this very critical service. Challenges include lack of or outdated equipment, diverse languages, and various levels of language development. I think there's been some reference to terminology development, and so forth. There are also training opportunities, or lack thereof.

    I won't go through a lot of the other concerns that have been voiced by my colleagues, but as a committee you can have a positive impact on the services we provide. You can ensure that changes are made that illustrate the important role that aboriginal broadcasters have in Canadian society.

    Like my colleagues, I would also like to invite you to come to the NWT so that you can experience first-hand the challenges we experience. Some examples are the cost of travel from one community to the other, and weather. As Catherine mentioned, some people have been stranded. We deal with that on a regular basis. You can see for yourselves the impact our program has on people. A lot of times, when you go to the communities, you hear about aboriginal programming.

½  (1915)  

    The aboriginal broadcasters have established a presence in our communities, in our regions, in our territories, in our provinces, and as a whole in Canada. I think it's very important to maintain that presence. But in order for us to provide our programs and services effectively and efficiently, we need the support of this committee.

    Marshi cho.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you very much.

    Next we have Native Communications Incorporated, David McLeod.

    Mr. Dave McLeod (Executive Director, Native Communications Incorporated): Thank you.

    Just to give you a little bit of background about where I come from, I'm with NCI. NCI was incorporated under the laws of Manitoba in 1971. We began with a group of grassroots people who wanted to hear aboriginal languages, community content, and aboriginal music. We have a long history in the north and also now in the south as well. We have 49 transmitters throughout the province of Manitoba from Winnipeg all the way up to Churchill. We are also involved with television, as we are currently in the writing stage of a 13-part half-hour series for television.

    It's an honour to be here today. I also want to say it's an honour to work in the industry that exists right now--the aboriginal industry of broadcasting. The last three days we've all sat together and we've all shared. We have similar experiences and stories, as you've been hearing. It's a good place to be. It feels like home when you're with a group of broadcasters that are so similar in a lot of ways.

    I have a brief presentation to make on behalf of some of the members from the northern native broadcast access program. It begins with talking about the program itself. It provides an annual $8 million investment in aboriginal broadcasting, and that $8 million has grown into a recognized industry now serving every region of Canada through radio and television. The northern native broadcast access program is made up of 13 not-for-profit aboriginal communication societies that constitute an integral part of the Canadian cultural fabric and that also serve to expand and diversify the ownership of media in Canada.

    The 13 NNBAP societies have grown to serve an estimated audience exceeding 500,000 people. That's the number we place on it. This includes many non-aboriginal people as well. As we know, people make phone requests. People are fans of the stations we work with and the television programs. Collectively our societies provide a unique public service that informs, entertains, and provides a vital link and invaluable lifeline, particularly for northern and remote communities.

    We, as aboriginal broadcasters, serve every region of Canada with a unique brand of journalism, music, entertainment, and cultural content. We also serve as story keepers--gathering and preserving historic documents, photos, audio recordings, film, video that will be passed on to the next generation. Our 13 societies also serve a critical role in preserving and promoting aboriginal languages. In a sense we serve as the life raft to over 5,000 communities, including many urban centres where native languages can only be heard through radio.

    The statistics for what we accomplish are quite amazing: 35,000 hours of aboriginal language a year and 90 hours of aboriginal language television. It must be noted that many of the aboriginal communication societies do this on a daily basis with extreme social issues, but they still meet their mandates. These issues include the high cost of living, transportation costs, and remoteness. Despite these challenges, over the last 20 years our 13 societies have proven themselves to be successful and have far exceeded the original intent of the northern native broadcast access program.

    I have three general points for consideration as well. The aboriginal broadcaster's position should be expanded upon within the Broadcasting Act. We require a commitment from the Canadian government that recognizes and guarantees the future operations of the 13 northern native broadcast access program members.

    Second, there's a critical need for funding towards archiving and preserving collected materials. Many groups have deteriorating videotapes and audiotapes that contain traditional stories, historic perspectives, and visuals that will not be replaceable if they are lost.

½  (1920)  

    As a quick example, we had that happen with one of our elders telling a story on videotape, and the feeling in the room was of utter sadness when we saw that there was a bar in the middle of the picture that would not go away, but the audio was there. It's critical that archiving is done, and not only just for the aboriginal groups. This is for all of Canada as well. We've also had interest in programming in a global sense as well, so that should be recognized.

    The third point is to develop a funding commitment that recognizes and builds on the success of the history within the aboriginal radio and television industry. The fastest-growing population in Canada, as we've heard, is the aboriginal population, which is taking place at both a community and an urban level. This increased population growth will place dramatic demands on aboriginal broadcasters across Canada. Increased funding is essential to the continued success and development of our industry.

    In closing, the NNBAP provides the core funding to all our organizations. The program was established in 1983 as a new beginning. That is where the funding has remained--as a beginning.

    All 13 groups have managed to survive and succeed over the last 20 years despite the fact that we face the same challenges as mainstream broadcasters. Some examples include new distribution and production technologies, staff training, globalization, and ongoing development of new programming, which must meet the new demands of an audience we serve.

    I'd like to thank you for this opportunity, and like the others, we certainly extend an invitation to the standing committee to visit our facilities, to meet our staff, and to see what we do first-hand. I'm sure you will be intrigued by the amount of dedication, creativity, and unique programming we produce throughout all regions of Canada on a daily basis.

    Megwetch. Thank you.

½  (1925)  

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, David.

    What we'll do now is extend it to the CBC.

    Peter.

    Mr. Peter Skinner (Program Manager, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation): Thank you for the opportunity to come here and speak. It's a privilege to be at the table with these broadcasters who provide vital grassroots programming to aboriginal people across Canada and especially in the north.

    I'd like to take this opportunity to talk about CBC North Radio. I'm the program manager for CBC North Radio in the Northwest Territories. I'm here representing my colleagues from the Yukon, Nunavut, Nunavik, and Quebec North.

    CBC North is unique within the CBC in that no other region of the CBC has such a large, immediate, and long-standing connection with its listeners. CBC North Radio broadcasts over an area of more than 3.5 million square kilometres, over five time zones. We reach an audience of 125,000 people. We broadcast in English and in eight aboriginal languages: Inuktitut, Cree, Dogrib, North Slavey, South Slavey, Chipewyan, Gwich'in and Inuvialuktun. In each region, we have a mix of English language and aboriginal language programming, ranging from the Yukon, with 41 hours of English-language programming and one hour a week of aboriginal language; to an even split in the Northwest Territories, with about 35 hours a week in the aboriginal languages and 35 in English; to Nunavut, which produces 62 hours a week of broadcasting in a mix in Inuktitut and English, across three time zones; and to Quebec North, which produces 16 hours a week of programming. We're heard in every community across the territories and in Nunavik.

    The CBC mandate, and the one we carry out at CBC North, is to connect, reflect, inform, and engage our listeners. Our listening audiences are very diverse, from people living in urban centres--and relatively large ones, if you consider the north, with 18,000 to 20,000 people, including in Whitehorse and Yellowknife--down to communities of mostly aboriginal people, fewer than 100 sometimes in those communities.

    In terms of the language that we broadcast in, Inuktitut is the language spoken by 80% of the people in Nunavut. We also broadcast in Gwich'in, which is spoken by fewer than 200 people in the Northwest Territories.

    Radio was established in the north in 1958 when the CBC began the takeover of military and community stations in Whitehorse and Dawson City in the Yukon; in Aklavik, Fort Smith, Hay River, and Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories; in Churchill, Manitoba; and at Goose Bay, Labrador. The latter two are no longer with CBC North.

    Over the years since 1958, it has grown to have its management and production centres in the north: studios in Whitehorse, Yellowknife, Inuvik, Rankin Inlet, and Iqaluit, with bureaus in Dawson City, Fort Smith, Cambridge Bay and Kuujjuak, and our Cree-language service, which is produced out of the Maison in Montreal.

    According to a recent Environics survey of northerners, 45% of the people who were surveyed said they listened to CBC North Radio in the morning in our prime time, an audience share that is envied by the rest of the CBC.

    CBC North is the largest news-gathering organization in the north. There are newspapers that are targeted to specific regions and come out twice or three times weekly. The Globe and Mail and National Post don't arrive in our locations until sometime in the middle of the morning, so people come to us first for news and for current affairs.

    We provide local, regional, national, and international news. In addition to that, CBC North has a mandate to produce, sponsor, and help preserve arts and cultural events. We do that through such events as the True North Concert, an annual showcase of northern performers that we take from all across the north and bring into small communities, to give them something that they often don't get.

    Our staff includes aboriginal hosts, reporters, and support staff. We have two aboriginal program managers in radio, and five producers in key positions of journalistic responsibility. Sabet here has talked about the challenge of broadcasting in the north. We refer to things like weather and road conditions as survival information, and it takes on new meaning when you're in the Northwest Territories or in Nunavut.

    To paraphrase an old expression about politics, all radio is local, and people listen to radio to find out what's happening in their local area. When that local area is more than one million square kilometres, it takes on a whole new meaning, and covering news and current affairs from our production centres is a difficult task. It's challenging sometimes. But what we want to do is stay at the forefront of the audience's perception of us, and in that, we're challenged by a completely changed media scene. When CBC Northern Services was established in 1958, there was no satellite television, no cable television, and no Internet. There was very little FM radio. Over the years, all those new media have brought in outside information sources, outside culture, and that's one of the biggest challenges that we face and that we share with other aboriginal broadcasters.

½  (1930)  

    We're making a constant effort to recruit aboriginal language speakers despite the problems of pulling people from a very small population base, finding people with the necessary language skills, presentation skills, and journalistic training. It's often people who don't have a willingness to relocate to our larger production centres from the small communities they come from. And in the Northwest Territories specifically, there's competition from the government, which could offer higher salaries, and from businesses like the diamond mines, which can certainly pay more than CBC.

    But we continue to do that because of our mandate to connect, to reflect, and to inform people. The secondary benefit of this is that we're helping to spread and encourage the use of aboriginal languages and hopefully to help preserve them.

    In closing, let me say that we hope to continue at CBC North Radio to maintain our relevance and connection to the people who listen to us in the north.

    Thank you.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Cathie, please.

    Ms. Cathie Bolstad (Regional Director, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation): Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak today. Like Peter, I am humbled to hear about some of the challenges that I know are ours, but I think our small aboriginal organizations have those in folds much greater sometimes than the CBC does.

    Just to introduce myself, I'm Cathie Bolstad, the regional director of television for the north. I live in Yellowknife and I have lived in the north all of my life. I was born in Whitehorse, grew up there, and have this challenge now in Yellowknife. This evening I want to talk to you about four things.

    First, I'd like to tell you about the region we serve. You've heard a lot about the region from everybody here, and I'd like to tell you about the programming we deliver to that region as CBC North Television, both for our regional audience but also for all Canadians as a national audience. I'd like to tell you a little about who the team are of CBC people who deliver that television service, and finally speak to two important challenges we face as broadcasters in the north, which I think need your attention and need to be addressed.

    First of all, CBC North television serves one third of the land mass of Canada geographically--the Yukon, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut Territory, and northern Quebec, the James Bay Cree area. It's rich and diverse in the culture and the languages, as you've heard from all of the groups here, and that's our challenge, to serve that audience, as the public broadcaster for Canada--and serve all of them. There are no daily newspapers except in Whitehorse, in our region, and many of the small communities do not have access to high-speed Internet services, they're served by satellite technology and it's too expensive.

    That makes radio and television service an extremely important source for all northerners for their news, their current affairs, their weather, and information about their community and their country. You've heard from Paul Quassa that the television choices and viewing options are proliferating on the airwaves, and in that, what we do as broadcasters is becoming smaller and smaller in the picture. It makes what we do all that more important in terms of telling the stories of our people in the north, their languages and their cultures, and making sure that those are reflected in all of the options available to viewers.

    CBC North television produces three regional programs. The first, Northbeat, is a half-hour daily CBC regional program produced Mondays to Fridays, part of the CBC's supper hour Canada Now. The program is primarily delivered in English and it covers stories from across the region we serve. It's news, it's weather, it's current affairs, it's ordinary northern citizens doing extraordinary things, and profiles of our elders; it's sports beats, life beats, arts beats.

    This is a news program, as I said, primarily in English, although it does occasionally include items in the Dene languages. We are limited in the number of people we have who speak Dene languages, and, sometimes, because of the travel that you've heard about, limited in our access to people who actually can speak the Dene language to give the interview in those languages. That's a challenge our reporters have shared with us. The program became closed-captioned in September and we were able to do that as being part of a larger organization. That's one program.

    We also produce in Yellowknife as well, or based in Yellowknife, CBC Igalaaq, a half-hour daily news program. It's delivered entirely in Inuktitut, it's primarily designated for a Nunavut unilingual or bilingual audience, and it's pan-northern news, but it focuses on issues of interest to Inuit people.

    An example of how we would use that show in connection to ourselves, as the national public broadcaster, would be that on September 11 when that new show went to air the images that were all over the televisions for Canadians across the country were broadcast immediately that day with those stories translated into Inuktitut so that our audience across the north knew where this was happening and what was happening.

    These two daily shows are packaged onto two distribution channels that CBC North uses. One goes to the Yukon, and just CBC Northbeat is delivered to the Yukon, because there is not an Inuit audience in the Yukon for CBC Igalaaq. Our second distribution provides both of those programs in there on the Northwest Territories and Nunavut distribution channel.

½  (1935)  

    The third program we produce is produced out of our Cree bureau in Montreal, by an entirely Cree staff. They are trilingual, speaking English, French, and Cree. Maamuitaau is a weekly current affairs program that is 20 years old. It explores the key issues facing the Cree people of northern Quebec, and is distributed on CBC's French and English television networks on closed-circuit television.

    All three programs are made available to the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network in a program supply agreement we negotiate as broadcasters in the industry.

    Although our Cree language program is aired only in Cree on CBC's French and English television network, it is, at the request of ATN, to bring value to the program and to bring it to a wider audience, subtitled in English, and we make it available on their network for them.

    CBC North also provides live television coverage of the territorial elections. We do special town hall programming from time to time. For example, when Roy Romanow came north but couldn't be in all communities, we took that process out to the broader communities.

    This is the important work that we do as a national public broadcaster, but our job is not done when we have just reflected ourselves to the region. As a public broadcaster, we also have to ensure that we're telling these stories to all Canadians. Last year 300 stories from our region travelled across all of the news and current affairs platforms of CBC Newsworld and CBC television. We've done other specials, like the opening ceremonies of the 2002 Arctic Winter Games, and performances commissioned in the north, featuring the people from the north. The list is long; suffice it to say, we can provide it to you.

    The one last thing we're doing in the north—which I think is new—is supporting the independent production community. It's our third year. It's a learning experience for us. But we are feeding a number of projects, some documentaries, the development of a comedy series from the north, and some movies of the week. We have a really nice mix in these programs, reflecting the values and the cultures in our communities.

    We're a small team, but I refer to us as “mighty and passionate”. The people who work for CBC are 40% aboriginal. All of our staff are very passionate about what we do to serve the Canadian people.

    I spent some time outlining the programming we do, because we've done some research that gives us some concerns about who's getting the programming. It's very important programming. It shares the culture and the language of the people we serve, and it shares their stories with all Canadians. But we undertook a poll this summer with Environics, and learned some things that concern me. For example, 39% of northern residents in the area we serve are receiving their television service viewing options via Star Choice and ExpressVu. Neither of these carriers carry CBC North programming as a distribution channel. This means that 39% of northern Canadians, who are choosing satellite as their TV viewing option, do not have access to CBC North's programs.

    This was mitigated somewhat while our programming was carried on APTN's national distribution network. But this is no longer the case; it's not available any more. Cable operators have abandoned cable operations in the north, and have turned these over to ExpressVu. It's proliferating. Satellite is becoming the primary choice, but northern programming is being lost to northerners. For the protection of language and culture, this needs to be fixed. This is not in the control of our programmers: we need your committee to look at this.

    Before closing, the other point I want to make is that 13% of northern residents surveyed receive their satellite or their television service over the air, either on a CBC owned or operated transmitter, or in a community owned and operated transmitter. In January 2001, when CBC changed its television distribution service to digital, we put digital receivers in all of these communities—whether we owned them, or whether the communities owned and operated them. Despite this, these small communities are struggling to maintain and to administer their transmitter services. They are sometimes off the air for months. When our programming is off the air, these viewers—who cannot afford to buy Star Choice, ExpressVu, or cable—cannot get our service. This needs to be paid attention to.

    I guess these are the two key points. I would like you to seriously consider the infrastructure and delivery platforms on which all of this important programming is carried, and that it be made available to northern Canadians.

    Thank you very much.

½  (1940)  

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, Cathie.

    I apologize for rushing people through, but I know there are going to be some questions from my colleagues.

    I'll start with Madame Gagnon.

[Translation]

    Ms. Christiane Gagnon (Québec, BQ): Thank you for having expressed your point of view and especially for your account of your day-to-day activities. The committee members would have liked to pay you a personal visit so as to be able to see firsthand the challenges that you face.

    One of the issues that we are studying involves availability. There is also the whole range of equipment and technical support available in this ever-changing universe where the latest technology is required in order to produce the best quality and most relevant programming at the lowest possible cost.

    But it is also important to be able to broadcast these programs and make them accessible. There is, for example, satellite distribution, and I was happy to hear about the problem relating to unavailability of local programming because, according to what the satellite network owners have told us, there are not enough channels available for broadcasting.

    What do you think the CRTC should do? I asked that the CRTC make it mandatory for satellite companies to broadcast local programming, but I was told that there was a problem with availability of the channels that would be required to respond to the Canadian and Quebec reality.

    I would like to ask you what you would need in order to be able to broadcast all of your local and regional programming in the far north. This appears to be a multi-faceted issue.

    I don't know who can answer my question, I would like to know if anyone has assessed the situation? If you cannot do it this evening... It is important for us to understand what is involved. What does this represent for your various communities?

½  (1945)  

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Would somebody like to take the question?

    Catherine.

    Ms. Catherine Ann Martin: I'm not the technical expert on that, and I think we have the technical expertise to help answer the question, but it would take awhile. I was listening to the kinds of struggles that NNBAP members, and even mainstream broadcasters, are having. My thinking is that, because we are in transition and are having to look at upgrading, updating, and becoming state of the art, there may be something that NNBAP and APTN can collectively provide to our mainstream broadcasters.

    We are in a position at this time to entertain...and because we're so new, we're very new in our equipment, in some ways.... We're also looking at the needs of bringing our northern groups up to a point. This would require some major discussion with the technical experts in every one of our NNBAP groups, and a discussion on whether or not there is any room for partnering with—and providing services from our end to—those requiring it.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): As Madame Gagnon said, please feel free to incorporate any responses to her questions in your written submissions.

    Ms. Lill.

    Ms. Wendy Lill (Dartmouth, NDP): Thank you very much. It's an honour to hear all of you and to have you come here and share with us the reality of the work you're doing. I have some comments to make and then some questions.

    First of all to Dave McLeod, I hear you. It's ironic that we're having trouble with microphones in this room, because I would assume that almost every single one of you has spent thousands of hours in front of microphones and hasn't had any trouble at all. It has to do with our technology and certainly we realize that.

    Mr. McLeod, you talk about doing 35,000 hours a year of programming. That's just an astounding figure. I have to say there have been an awful lot of people before this committee who don't come anywhere near to meeting their mandates under the Broadcasting Act and their commitment under the CRTC. It's very telling and it's incredible.

    Mr. Quassa, as to your comment about doing twice as much programming in the early 1990s than you are doing today, I'd like to be more enlightened about that and why it is that your programming has diminished, because that's very troubling. The whole Broadcasting Act is certainly not intended to see shrinkage in programming. It's to see the flourishing of programming. I would like you to address that.

    I'd like to ask a question to anyone who wants to respond. We've touched a bit on the impact of media concentration on what's happening in the north. I'd like to know if you can shed any further light on the impact of media concentration on your audiences and on your job of preserving culture.

    I'm also concerned as to whether you can identify any CRTC rulings that have been undermining your work. Again you do not have to answer all these questions right now if you'd like to put them in writing.

    Someone also mentioned changes in the wording to the Broadcasting Act that are necessary to safeguard and protect the mandate you have. We as a committee would appreciate changes in wording that you feel would help, because that's part of our job here, to present recommendations around the Broadcasting Act.

    And I have one final comment. It's very disturbing to find out that the public broadcaster is not available to 39% of northern residents because they're getting their feed through ExpressVu or Star Choice. This isn't what it's supposed to be about either. The public broadcaster is supposed to be that--public and accessible to all Canadians. This is a really important thing for us to know and to note and to do something about.

½  (1950)  

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Mr. Quassa, please.

    Mr. Paul Quassa: Yes, thank you very much.

    I'll just speak very briefly. If we look at the budget in 1989, NNBAP provided about $13.2 million. But in 2002 that went way down to $7.9 million. Again it was because of federal government budget cutbacks. On top of that, as we've heard throughout, equipment is so old. Equipment failure has been one of our major problems also. Some of it is so old there are no other parts to repair it. IBC again had funding of $2.2 million in earlier years. Now we only have $1.3 million.

    So it's all because of the funding cuts, and certainly the equipment problems have contributed to that unfortunate move.

    Mr. Bert Crowfoot (General Manager, Aboriginal Multi-Media Society of Alberta): A couple of societies don't receive funding for television and yet are doing television. They're paying for it out of their own funding resources. Saskatchewan is one and Elizabeth's is the second society.

    Some of the societies were caught in the middle of the cutbacks. I think four were supposed to go to television, but because of the cutbacks, all we do is radio in Alberta. Some are in the middle, and some went on their own.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, Mr. Crowfoot.

    Ms. Adamson.

    Ms. Shirley Adamson: The cutbacks have been fairly consistent in all of the broadcast agencies. We've all been cut back by just a whisper over 37% of our original funding, so it's had a huge impact. We operate with funding of just over $1 million, and we produce 13 hours of live programming daily for radio, and voice-track in the remaining hours of the day. We produce 26 half-hour programs for APTN. It's a current-affairs program; it's also our flagship program.

    So when funding is decreased at all, a huge impact is felt immediately.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, Ms. Adamson.

    Monsieur Duplain.

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain (Portneuf, Lib.): You say you are happy to be here, and we are also happy that you have come. It might even be for the better, because you are here and since the meeting is televised, a great number of people can listen to the concerns that you have expressed today. I was fortunate in that I was able to travel to Saluit, in Kuujjuuak, and similar areas because of my work. I was able to have a look at the television and radio stations there. What I found were wonderful people and an extraordinary landscape.

    Ms. Lill asked the question that I was hoping to ask. What interests me greatly are the changes or amendments that you are asking for. I would like you to explain the amendments or accommodations that you require.

    Ms. Gagnon also mentioned changes as they relate to the CRTC. It would be important to include that in the information that you will be forwarding to our committee.

    I had a second question relating to cutbacks; you have already dealt with that as well.

    Mr. Hervieux, you mentioned provincial funding. Is there anything preventing you from seeking funds from sources other than the province? Are you self-sufficient today, or do you still require provincial funding?

½  (1955)  

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux: As I said in my presentation, we started setting up community radio stations during the 1980s. At that time, the Department of Communications provided the funding for the equipment for each local radio station. When SOCAM was created and the radio stations grouped together, the Northern Native Broadcasting Access Program provided funding. At that time, as of 1983, for a three- or four-year period, if memory serves, we were granted $1.2 million for the SOCAM operations. There were three production centres within Quebec. Today, we are given $550,000 per year. So the subsidy has been cut by more than half.

    With respect to the Quebec Department of Communications, of course, we know that the Quebec government is doing its best to support aboriginal community radio. There are grants allowing local stations to hire a liaison officer or a technical advisor, or to help them prepare request applications.

    But the amounts provided by the Quebec Department of Communications are quite limited, and represent barely $10,000 per year, to provide for operational expenses or to pay for equipment maintenance. The first year, when start-up funding was available for community radio—it was, as I said in my brief, in 1977-1978— the department had provided the communities with the equipment they needed to set up and run their radio stations. No funding was provided after that, and the community radio stations managed on their own, somewhat like what my colleague at the end of the table explained. Those radio stations are still operating today. The Department of Culture and Communications announced last June that it would be replacing equipment after 20 years for some of the stations, and 25 years for others; the equipment is old and needs to be updated. The federal government does not invest in community radio. It merely provides subsidies, through a program with which we are all familiar, for organizations such as the Société de communication and the 13 organizations represented here.

    Of course, we would like to develop other projects, including television, which is one of the goals that the program does not meet. We would like to do something in that area. We have a national television network, APTN, but the French-language content of this national television network is not yet up to par. We are working hard to see how we might eventually be able to work with a television production house that would produce French-language programming for Canadians and broadcast aboriginal production for aboriginals as well as non-natives throughout Canada. That is what we would like to do in the coming years.

    I was involved with the APTN at its inception.

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Sorry, we're coming down to the last couple of minutes.

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux: I guess I'll invite you to come to Quebec City. I know we have to finish at 8 o'clock.

¾  (2000)  

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): That's not the witching hour, but we want to be very close. I apologize very much for rushing some of the responses.

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux: Sure.

    We have partners. We have an organization that is credible with the provincial government and the federal government. Industry Canada is starting to be a partner with us for this program called

[Translation]

"Connecting Canada", among others.

[English]

    We have native partners across Canada. We will be celebrating our 20th anniversary next year. We also just signed an agreement last March with the people from South America, from Ecuador, to produce programming for them and to have them produce programming for us. So we have some things going on, happening. I hope this program, or this consultation or evaluation, will bring some good news for us at the end of this work.

    I'd like to say one thing very seriously because we are serious when we talk about radio broadcasting or TV. We hear news that is no longer news for us where I come from, especially in the last two years. Almost every month we had news coming into our different communities from our members. Every month there was a kid's suicide. Every month we've heard that for about two or three years. Last year and even today, if we would hear something like that, it wouldn't be news for us. It's no longer news. This is a very important matter.

[Translation]

    It is important to have a program like the one that you have created. The Government of Canada is responsible for the program, and it created this need. We have been working to keep it going and we will continue to ensure that television is available. We need this program. We hope that someone is listening.

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Ms. Gagnon, you had a quick request for the witnesses.

    Ms. Christiane Gagnon: This will be quick, but still the answer will be long.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): We'll get the written answers.

[Translation]

    Ms. Christiane Gagnon: The CRTC has issued a new policy on community radio. You are probably aware of it. I'd like to know, not necessarily this evening but later, if this new policy will have an effect on the support given to community radio.

    I attempted to elicit a response from various community radio stations in Quebec, and I have heard no complaints. Are you going to wait a while to see what impact there will be, if any? It appears that, at the very least, they have recognized the necessity of supporting community radio and perhaps even increasing funding.

    Even if you don't have time to respond this evening, I would like you to keep us informed. We need your comments and your support if we are going to change things.

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, Madame Gagnon.

[Translation]

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux: I will try to be brief.

    Of course, there is always room for improvement when laws or regulations are amended, including those respecting licensing. We are having a problem now with a broadcaster who is also a SOCAM member; the station is located in Mashteuiatsh, in Pointe-Bleue, in the Lac-Saint-Jean area. People are applying for licences when we already have an aboriginal broadcasting service. Other aboriginals, Metis, are being brought into the region and given licences to broadcast in the same area, when we already have a station there broadcasting in the aboriginal language as well as in French.

    There might also be licences that they want to give to national aboriginal networks which might also affect the coverage area of some native broadcasters.

    Before granting licences, it might be a good idea to see who is operating in the area and adjust accordingly. We have asked our members to speak to the committee at various times. That causes problems because it puts aboriginals in competition with each other. We don't agree with granting a licence to another aboriginal station in our coverage area. We have nothing against the Metis.

¾  (2005)  

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Mr. Hervieux, I have others.

[Translation]

    Mr. Bernard Hervieux: We just want to make that clear. Perhaps the law should be amended to take that into account.

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Colleagues, I have a situation where two of the witnesses would like to make a very short interjection, and I'm wondering if we could give them an extra five minutes and then we'll close out. So we will close out at 8:10.

    Merci, Monsieur Duplain.

    Ms. Sabet-Biscaye, thank you.

    Mrs. Elizabeth Sabet-Biscaye: Thank you. I just want to respond to a couple of points, one made by Ms. Lill regarding what impact mass media has had on them.

    I think the most telling impact has been on our aboriginal language and culture. When our aboriginal language programming is competing with something like MuchMusic, you can very easily guess which station our children, our youth, are going to be tuned into. I have a 21-year-old son, and I know he's not listening to my radio station. He's tuning into MuchMusic, and that has had far-reaching implications because it impacts on our languages.

    Our languages are deteriorating, and we struggle to maintain those by giving voice to our aboriginal language speakers. That's one way of promoting that. But if we're not reaching the young people who would be the ones to continue maintaining the language, it does have a definite impact, because they become parents and don't teach their children their language, because they don't know it. So yes, by competing with all these channels on TV, these different radio stations that play the music that appeals to them, it is impacting on that.

    We just did a program, a four-part video series, funded through the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, on Grollier Hall residential school. It had tremendous social impact on residents in the NWT, not just in one community, but in a number of communities.

    When we aired that program, we offered a 1-800 number for people to call for counselling. We had a number of calls, not just from the NWT but from across Canada. It wasn't just for residents who went to Grollier Hall; it was also people who went to residential schools in other jurisdictions, other residential schools.

    So by offering this service, it let us know that people do want to hear these things. Incidentally, that program has been versioned into four of our aboriginal languages and will be shown on APTN.

    The other comment I'd like to make is regarding funding sources. There are a number of funding sources, and I think from what I've heard in the last three days in meetings, as an organization struggling to maintain our programs and provide good quality programming, we have to take very innovative, creative approaches to fundraising, but at the same time make sure we don't compromise our abilities.

    For example, if I can access three pots of money where I'm going to get $2,000, $3,000, or $5,000, I have to ask myself the question, is it really worth the cost to administration, to administer that program? So those are the kinds of choices we have to make.

    The final comment I'd like to make is that we have to rely on other organizations, including the government and other aboriginal organizations, but at all times we have to maintain our objectivity as journalists, not compromise our role as journalists, when we report on issues.

    Merci.

¾  (2010)  

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you very much.

    Mr. Crowfoot, if you could be brief....

    Mr. Bert Crowfoot: My comments are to Mr. Duplain. You asked if there are other funding sources. Some of us are in locations where we can't access revenue through advertising. Some of us use bingo to raise revenue, while others unfortunately don't have that opportunity. So there is a disparity in the amount of other revenue you can generate.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you, Mr. Crowfoot.

    Mr. McLeod, I'm going give you a few seconds before I conclude the meeting.

    Mr. Dave McLeod: I have just a couple of short comments.

    We talked about the almost 35,000 hours of aboriginal language we broadcast collectively every year. That represents 17 dialects. I just wanted to mention that.

    The other thing is that we hear “community radio” quite often; I like to use the term “aboriginal broadcast industry”. Part of that has to do with population growth. For example, we broadcast in Winnipeg, where the aboriginal population is between 60,000 and 80,000. The estimate we're hearing right now is that by 2015 there will be 150,000 aboriginal people in the city of Winnipeg. So the audience we reach is very large and growing as well.

    Thank you.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): Thank you very much.

[Translation]

    Mr. Claude Duplain: Could I ask a question without expecting an answer?

[English]

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): I'll close--

    Mr. Claude Duplain: Okay.

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): --by thanking you, on behalf of my colleagues, for coming in on such short notice. If there's one thing I've witnessed, it's this profound sense of responsibility and passion you have toward your history and making sure that this is told for generations to come. Hopefully, your written submissions will help steer us in the right direction to make sure that we can be as supportive as possible.

    On behalf of the committee--and thank you, Mr. Duplain--I'd like to recognize Bert Crowfoot tonight. I understand that he received a lifetime achievement award from Alberta for 25 years in communications. Congratulations to you, and also to David McLeod for an industry award for promoting aboriginal music he received on the 28th. Congratulations to both of you. You've done your people proud.

    Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

    The Vice-Chair (Mr. Paul Bonwick): That concludes the committee meeting for this evening.

    The meeting is adjourned.