FINA Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 81

Tuesday, February 26, 2002

The Standing Committee on Finance met at 9:43 a.m. this day, in Room 269, West Block, the Chair, Sue Barnes, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Carolyn Bennett, Scott Brison, Roy Cullen, Ken Epp, Albina Guarnieri, Jason Kenney, Yvan Loubier, Shawn Murphy, Lorne Nystrom, Pauline Picard, Monte Solberg, Bryon Wilfert.

Acting Members present: Mac Harb for Maurizio Bevilacqua, John O’Reilly for Roy Cullen, Dominic LeBlanc for Nick Discepola, John O’Reilly for Sophia Leung, Tony Valeri for Gary Pillitteri, James Moore for Rahim Jaffer, Joe McGuire for Shawn Murphy, John O’Reilly for Maurizio Bevilacqua, Joe McGuire for Shawn Murphy, Larry Bagnell for Sophia Leung, Stan Dromisky for Nick Discepola, Steve Mahoney for Maurizio Bevilacqua, John O’Reilly for Shawn Murphy, Reg Alcock for Shawn Murphy, Reg Alcock for Gary Pillitteri, Mac Harb for Gary Pillitteri, Joe McGuire for Nick Discepola, Raymonde Folco for Sophia Leung, Joe Fontana for Nick Discepola, Robert Bertrand for Sophia Leung, Gérard Binet for Shawn Murphy, Jim Peterson for Carolyn Bennett, Mac Harb for Nick Discepola, André Harvey for Maurizio Bevilacqua, Tony Valeri for Gary Pillitteri, Gérard Binet for Nick Discepola, Jim Peterson for Maurizio Bevilacqua, Jim Pankiw for Scott Brison, Charlie Penson for Rahim Jaffer, Jim Peterson for Maurizio Bevilacqua, Serge Marcil for Carolyn Bennett, James Moore for Rahim Jaffer.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: June Dewetering, Acting Principal, Marc-André Pigeon, Research Officer.

Witnesses: From the Department of Finance: Serge Dupont, General Director, Tax Policy Branch; Gérald Lalonde, Senior Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch. From the Department of Transport: William J.S. Elliott, Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security Group; Jacques E. Pigeon, Senior General Counsel; Renée Légaré, Policy Advisor. From Infrastructure Canada: Jacques Parent, Acting Assistant Secretary. From the Department of Human Resources Development Canada: Gordon W. McFee, Director, Policy and Legislative Development. From Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat: Robert Hilton, Senior Program Analyst.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Monday, February 18, 2002, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-49, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on December 10, 2001 (See Minutes of Proceedings, Wednesday, February 20, 2002, Meeting No. 78).

The Committee proceeded to the clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 is postponed.

On Clause 2,

Lorne Nystrom moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 41 on page 4 the following:

“(5) When a contract between the Authority, an air carrier or an aerodrome operator and a screening contractor for the delivery of screening expires or is terminated, a sale of business within the meaning of subsection 44(2) of the Canada Labour Code shall be deemed to have taken place.”

After debate, by unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 5 on page 6 with the following:

“ment as directors, two must be nominees submitted by the representatives of the travel industry designated under that section whom the Minister considers suitable for appointment as directors, and two must be nominees”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg – 8

NAYS

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Albina Guarnieri

Mac Harb

Dominic LeBlanc

Shawn Murphy

John O’Reilly

Tony Valeri

Bryon Wilfert – 9

Accordingly, the following consequential amendment was also negatived.

That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 23 on page 6 with the following:

“industry, of the travel industry and of aerodrome operators to pro-”

Lorne Nystrom moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 5 to 9 on page 6 with the following:

“ment as directors, two must be nominees submitted by the representatives of aerodrome operators designated under that section whom the Minister considers suitable for appointment as directors, and two must be nominees submitted by the bargaining agents that represent the greatest number of screening officers employed at aerodromes in Canada.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by show of hands:

YEAS: 9;     NAYS: 8

Jason Kenney moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 1 on page 9 with the following:

 “28. (1) Notwithstanding subsection 5(2), the Authority may enter into”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 9

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 31 on page 9 with the following:

“auditor of the Authority and shall carry out the duties of auditor of the Authority in accordance with the Auditor General Act.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 9

Jason Kenney moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 7 on page 10 the following:

“(3) Any information that the Minister withholds from tabling under subsection (1) shall be made accessible in accordance with the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 6;     NAYS: 9

Monte Solberg moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 10 and 11 on page 10 with the following:

“Minister during the year that this section comes into force and in every year thereafter.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 9

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 19 and 20 on page 10 with the following:

(a) designating aerodromes for the purposes of this Act; and

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:

YEAS: 9;     NAYS: 6

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 10 to 14 on page 12 with the following:

38. The Authority may enter into an agreement with an air carrier in order to contribute to the costs of screening at an aerodrome designated by regulation, if the costs are incurred by the air carrier after the day on which this section comes into force and before the day on which the Authority is requires under the Aeronautics Act to deliver that screening.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:

YEAS: 12;     NAYS: 2

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 31 on page 12 the following:

“(3) The Minister shall table in the House of Commons on the next sitting day of that House any plan or budget submitted to the Minister under subsection (1).”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 9

After debate, Clause 2, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 3 carried on division.

Clause 4 carried on division.

On Clause 5

James Moore moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 13 to 18 on page 14 with the following:

“flight and the individual embarked on the particular flight outside Canada,”

At 11:10 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:00 p.m., the sitting resumed.

By unanimous consent, James Moore moved, --That wherever the number $2.33 is, it be changed to $5.60; wherever the number $4.67 is, it be moved up to $11.21; wherever the number $2.50 is, it be moved up to $6; wherever the number $5 is, it be moved up to $12.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg -- 8

NAYS

Reg Alcock

Larry Bagnell

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Stan Dromisky

Albina Guarnieri

John Maloney

Shawn Murphy

Bryon Wilfert – 9

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg -- 8

NAYS

Reg Alcock

Larry Bagnell

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Stan Dromisky

Albina Guarnieri

John Maloney

Shawn Murphy

Bryon Wilfert – 9

Accordingly, the following consequential amendments were also negatived:

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 17 to 19 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) $2.33 for each chargeable emplanement included in the service, to a maximum of $4.67 per one-way trip, if ”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 26 to 28 on page 20 with the following:

“(b) $2.50 for each chargeable emplanement included in the service, to a maximum of $5.00 per one-way trip, if ”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 35 on page 20 with the following:

“(c) $5.00, if the service includes trans-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 42 to 46 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) $2.33 for each chargeable emplanement by an individual on an aircraft used to transport the individual to a destination outside Canada but within the continental zone, to a maximum of $4.67 per one-way trip, if ”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 7 to 11 on page 21 with the following:

“(b) $2.50 for each chargeable emplanement by an individual on an aircraft used to transport the individual to a destination outside Canada but within the continental zone, to a maximum of $5.00 per one-way trip, if ”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 21 with the following:

“(c) $5.00, if the service includes trans-”

By unanimous consent, Yvan Loubier moved, --Que soit déposé toutes les études d’impact de ce nouveau droit imposé au transport aérien incluant l’analyse des effets pour les différentes régions du Canada.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg ---- 7

NAYS

Larry Bagnell

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Albina Guarnieri

Mac Harb

John Maloney

Joe McGuire

Shawn Murphy

Bryon Wilfert -----9

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 14 to 18 on page 14 with the following:

(A)  in the case of an air transportation service acquired in Canada, the particular flight included a chargeable emplanement by the individual,

(B) the individual embarked on the particular flight outside Canada, or

(C) the particular flight included an embarkation that, because of this subparagraph, is not a chargeable emplanement,

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 5

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 22 and 23 on page 14 with the following:

being used to transport, on a direct flight, the individual to a destination in

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 6

James Moore moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 17 and 18 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare, to a maximum”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 6;     NAYS: 9

Accordingly, the following amendments were also negatived:

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 26 and 27 on page 20 with the following:

“(b) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare, to a maximum”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 35 on page 20 with the following:

“(c) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare, to a maximum of $24.00, if the service includes trans-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 42 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare for each chargeable emplane-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 21 with the following:

“(b) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare for each chargeable emplane-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 21 with the following:

“(c) an amount equal to two percent of the airfare, to a maximum of $24.00, if the service includes trans-”

James Moore moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 17 and 18 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) $0.0065 per kilometer flown, to a maximum”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Monte Solberg -----7

NAYS

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Raymonde Folco

Joe Fontana

Albina Guarnieri

Mac Harb

John Maloney

Shawn Murphy

Bryon Wilfert -----9

Accordingly, the following consequential amendments were also negatived.

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing lines 26 and 27 on page 20 with the following:

“(b) $0.0069 per kilometer flown, to a maximum”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 35 on page 20 with the following:

“(c) $ 0.0069 per kilometer flown, to a maximum of $24.00, if the service includes trans-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 42 on page 20 with the following:

“(a) $0.0065 per kilometer flown for each chargeable emplane-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 21 with the following:

“(b) $0.0069 per kilometer flown for each chargeable emplane-”

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 21 with the following:

“(c) $ 0.0069 per kilometer flown, to a maximum of $24.00, if the service includes trans-”

Ken Epp moved, --That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 18 on page 24 the following:

“15.1 Despite any other provision of this Act, the amount collected from passengers with respect to chargeable emplanements at a listed airport during a fiscal year shall not exceed an amount representing 50% of the operating budget for that year of the operator of the aerodrome that operates the listed airport at which the embarkation occurs.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Monte Solberg -----7

NAYS

Carolyn Bennett

Roy Cullen

Raymonde Folco

Joe Fontana

Albina Guarnieri

Mac Harb

John Maloney

Shawn Murphy

Bryon Wilfert -----9

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 25 on page 28 with the following:

27. (1) If a person fails to pay an amount, other than an amount of penalty under subsection 53(1), to

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands

YEAS: 9;     NAYS: 7

Bryon Wilfert moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 11 on page 30 with the following:

document containing information specified by the Minister.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:

YEAS: 9;     NAYS: 7

Accordingly, the following consequential amendment also carried.

That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by replacing line 36 on page 45 with the following:

per year, compounded daily, on the amount not paid, computed for

At 2:00 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 3:38 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by adding after line 46 on page 38 the following:

 “(11) The Minister shall cause any notice of objection filed under subsection (1) to be published in the Canada Gazette within 30 days after the expiration of the 90 day period referred to in that subsection.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting line 7 on page 70.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting line 12 on page 70.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting line 27 on page 70.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was agreed to.

James Moore moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting line 6 on page 71.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 8;     NAYS: 9

James Moore moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 5, be amended by deleting line 33 on page 71.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 6;     NAYS: 9

Ken Epp proposed to move, -- That the list of airports be cut in half with the smaller airports in the list being deleted.

The Chair ruled the motion inadmisible on the basis that it was vague and deficient in form.

Whereupon, Ken Epp appealed the decision of the Chair.

And the question being put by the Chair:

“Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?”

The result of the vote having been noted (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 7), the Chair stated the decision was sustained.

After debate, Clause 5, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS

Robert Bertrand

Gérard Binet

Roy Cullen

Albina Guarnieri

André Harvey

Shawn Murphy

Jim Peterson

Tony Valeri

Bryon Wilfert ----9

NAYS

Scott Brison

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

James Moore

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg -----8

After debate, Clause 6 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

After debate, Clause 7 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

After debate, Clause 8 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

After debate, Clause 9 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

After debate, Clause 10 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

After debate, Clause 11 carried by a show of hands. (YEAS: 9; NAYS: 6)

Monte Solberg moved, -- That Bill C-49 be amended by adding after line 22 on page 76 the following new clause:

 “11.1 This Part shall expire on March 31, 2004.”

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 6;     NAYS:9

On Clause 12,

Lorne Nystrom proposed to move, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 12, be amended by adding after line 12 on page 77 the following:

 “(12.1) If the child or children referred to in subsection 23(1) die during the period referred to in subsection 23(2), the benefit period terminates two weeks after the last death.”

RULING OF THE CHAIR

The proposed amendment would, in the event of the death of a child, extend by two weeks the benefit period during which a claimant could receive parental benefits.

Marleau & Monpetit state on page 655 of the House of Commons Procedure & Practice that “an amendment is therefore inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the Public Treasury or extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications as expressed in the Royal Recommendation.”

I must therefore regretfully declare your amendment inadmissible.

After debate, Clause 12 carried on division.

By unanimous consent after debate, Clauses 13 to 21 inclusive, carried on division.

On Clause 22

Jim Pankiw moved, --That Bill C-49, in Clause 22, be amended by replacing line 11 on page 85 with the following:

“property is 1/10,000 of the taxpayer’s capital gain”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it carried on the following division:

YEAS

Gérard Binet

Scott Brison

Roy Cullen

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg -----9

NAYS

Robert Bertrand

Albina Guarnieri

André Harvey

Shawn Murphy

Jim Peterson

Tony Valeri

Bryon Wilfert -----7

The question being put on Clause 22, as amended, produced the following division:

YEAS

Scott Brison

Roy Cullen

Ken Epp

Jason Kenney

Yvan Loubier

Lorne Nystrom

Pauline Picard

Monte Solberg -----8

NAYS

Robert Bertrand

Gérard Binet

Albina Guarnieri

André Harvey

Shawn Murphy

Jim Peterson

Tony Valeri

Bryon Wilfert -----8

At 4:51 o’clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:00 o’clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

The Chair cast her vote in the negative.

Therefore, Clause 22 was negatived.

Clause 23 carried on division.

Clause 24 carried on division.

Clause 25 carried on division.

Clause 26 carried on division.

Clause 27 carried on division.

Clause 28 carried on division.

Clause 29 carried on division.

Clause 30 carried on division.

Clause 31 carried on division.

Clause 32 carried on division.

Clause 33 carried on division.

Clause 34 carried on division.

At 5:35 o’clock p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 6:20 o’clock p.m., the sitting resumed.

Clause 35 carried on division.

Clause 36 carried on division.

Clause 37 carried on division.

Clause 38 carried on division.

Clause 39 carried on division.

Clause 40 carried on division.

Clause 41 carried on division.

Clause 42 carried on division.

Clause 43 carried on division.

Clause 44 carried on division.

On Clause 45,

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 45, be amended by adding after line 18 on page 110 the following:

“6. Any information in the possession of the Minister regarding the operation and administration of the Fund shall be made accessible in accordance with the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands.

YEAS: 7;    NAYS: 9

Jason Kenney moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 45, be amended by adding after line 18 on page 110 the following:

“6. The Auditor General of Canada is the auditor of the Fund and shall carry out the duties of auditor of the Fund in accordance with the Auditor General Act.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands:

YEAS: 7;    NAYS: 9

Clause 45 carried on division.

Clause 46 carried on division.

On Clause 47,

Monte Solberg moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 47, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 111 with the following:

“or operated to benefit Canadians and to improve productivity in Canada:”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands:

YEAS: 7;    NAYS: 9

Jason Kenney moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 47, be amended by replacing line 10 on page 111 with the following:

“(c) urban development infra-”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands:

YEAS: 5;    NAYS: 11

Ken Epp moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 47, be amended by replacing line 22 on page 111 with the following:

“that improve Canada's productivity, contribute to economic growth or quality”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands:

YEAS: 7;    NAYS: 9

Monte Solberg moved, -- That Bill C-49, in Clause 47, be amended by adding after line 22 on page 112 the following:

 “6. Any information in the possession of the Minister regarding the operation and administration of the Fund shall be made accessible in accordance with the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act.”

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by show of hands:

YEAS: 7,    NAYS: 9

After debate, Clause 47 carried on division.

Clause 1 carried on division.

The Title carried on division.

The Bill, as amended, carried, on division.

ORDERED, -- That the Chair report Bill C-49, with amendments to the House as soon as possible.

At 7:05 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Marc Toupin

Clerk of the Committee