HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
35^TH PARLIAMENT, 1^st SESSION

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JOURNALS

No. 219

Thursday, June 15, 1995

10:00 a.m.

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PRAYERS DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS Tabling of Documents Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petitions Nos. 351-3053 and 351-3083 concerning the parole system. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-10Y. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petitions Nos. 351-2817 and 351-2818 concerning the imprisonment of Leonard Peltier in the United States. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-78E. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petitions Nos. 351-2997 and 351-3067 concerning intoxication as a defence. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-107G. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government response, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petition No. 351-3430 concerning the prayer in the House of Commons. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-124A. Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government response, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petition No. 351-3422 concerning the Official Opposition. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-125B. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government response, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to petition No. 351-2861 concerning the extradition to India of Mr. Mahesh Inder Singh. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-351-129. Statements by Ministers Pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), Mrs. Stewart (Secretary of State (Latin America and Africa)) made a statement. Presenting Reports from Committees Mr. Bélisle (La Prairie), from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, presented the 13th Report of the Committee (Correctional Services of Canada). -- Sessional Paper No. 8510- 351-129. Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government was requested by the Committee to table a comprehensive response. A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings and Evidence (Issues Nos. 30, 31 and 35, which includes this Report) was tabled. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Mr. Zed (Fundy -- Royal), from the Standing Committee on Industry, presented the 7th Report of the Committee (Bill C- 91, An Act to continue the Federal Business Development Bank under the name Business Development Bank of Canada, with amendments). -- Sessional Paper No. 8510-351-130. A copy of the relevant Minutes of Proceedings and Evidence (Issue No. 42, which includes this Report) was tabled. Motions Pursuant to Standing Order 56.1(1)(a), Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), seconded by Mr. Eggleton (President of the Treasury Board), moved, -- That, notwithstanding any Standing or Special Order, this House shall continue to sit after 11:30 p.m. today in order to consider Government Orders and it shall not adjourn except pursuant to a motion proposed by a Minister of the Crown. The question was put on the motion and, fewer than 25 Members having risen to object, pursuant to Standing Order 56.1(3), the motion was agreed to. Presenting Petitions Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

-- by Mr. Mayfield (Cariboo -- Chilcotin), one concerning health care services (No. 351-3542) and one concerning the Canadian Human Rights Act (No. 351-3543);

-- by Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre), one concerning the official languages of Canada (No. 351-3544), one concerning intoxication as a defence (No. 351-3545), one concerning sentences in the Criminal Code (No. 351-3546) and one concerning the Canadian Human Rights Act (No. 351-3547);

-- by Mr. Williams (St. Albert), one concerning abortion (No. 351-3548);

-- by Mr. Gilmour (Comox -- Alberni), one concerning the Canadian Human Rights Act (No. 351-3549). Questions on Order Paper Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs)) presented the answers to questions Q-186, Q-187 and Q-188 on the Order Paper. GOVERNMENT ORDERS The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Gray (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada), seconded by Mr. Goodale (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food), -- That a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint Their Honours that this House agrees to amendment number 4(a) made by the Senate to Bill C-69, An Act to provide for the establishment of electoral boundary commissions and the readjustment of electoral boundaries, and this House disagrees with amendments numbers 1, 2, 3, 4(b), 4(c), 5, 6 and 7 for the following reasons: The bill was, in accordance with the new procedures of this House, prepared by a Committee of the House. While amendment number 4(a) corrects an omission, the other amendments address points, each of which were supported by Members representing at least two of the three parties officially recognized in the House. Taken together, the bill represents a balance aimed at improving the responsiveness of the system of readjusting electoral boundaries both to rapid shifts of population and to the operative realities of effective representation of the people, a balance that, in the opinion of this House, requires: (a) in view of the varied Canadian geography and demography, the retention of a variation of up to 25% from the electoral quota of each province (addressed by amendments numbers 1 and 6(a)); (b) the avoidance of unnecessary electoral boundary adjustments in provinces where shifts of population do not require them (addressed in amendments numbers 2, 3, 5, 6(b)(i) and 7); (c) the clear acceptance of the non-partisan status of members of commissions through the provision of parliamentary oversight of appointments (addressed by amendments numbers 4(b) and 4(c)); (d) the retention of the definition of ``community of interest" developed on a non-partisan basis by currently serving elected representatives, through a consensus of all parties, in the House of Commons Standing Committee rather than the substitution of another definition (addressed by amendment number 6(b)(ii)); And of the amendment of Mr. Hermanson (Kindersley -- Lloydminster), seconded by Mr. Harper (Calgary West), -- That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word ``That" and substituting the following: ``a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint Their Honours that this House agrees to amendments numbers 1, 4(a), 6(a) and 6(b)(i), made by the Senate to Bill C-69, An Act to provide for the establishment of electoral boundary commissions and the readjustment of electoral boundaries, and this House disagrees with amendments numbers 2, 3, 4(b), 4(c), 5, 6(b)(ii), 6(c) and 7." The debate continued. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The attention of the Speaker was drawn to the want of a quorum. Accordingly, a count of the House was taken and there were fewer than 20 Members present. At 12:35 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 29(3), the Bells were sounded to call in the Members. At 12:37 p.m., a quorum was found and the Speaker ordered the ringing of the Bells stopped. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Gray (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada), seconded by Mr. Goodale (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food), -- That a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint Their Honours that this House agrees to amendment number 4(a) made by the Senate to Bill C-69, An Act to provide for the establishment of electoral boundary commissions and the readjustment of electoral boundaries, and this House disagrees with amendments numbers 1, 2, 3, 4(b), 4(c), 5, 6 and 7 for the following reasons: The bill was, in accordance with the new procedures of this House, prepared by a Committee of the House. While amendment number 4(a) corrects an omission, the other amendments address points, each of which were supported by Members representing at least two of the three parties officially recognized in the House. Taken together, the bill represents a balance aimed at improving the responsiveness of the system of readjusting electoral boundaries both to rapid shifts of population and to the operative realities of effective representation of the people, a balance that, in the opinion of this House, requires: (a) in view of the varied Canadian geography and demography, the retention of a variation of up to 25% from the electoral quota of each province (addressed by amendments numbers 1 and 6(a)); (b) the avoidance of unnecessary electoral boundary adjustments in provinces where shifts of population do not require them (addressed in amendments numbers 2, 3, 5, 6(b)(i) and 7); (c) the clear acceptance of the non-partisan status of members of commissions through the provision of parliamentary oversight of appointments (addressed by amendments numbers 4(b) and 4(c)); (d) the retention of the definition of ``community of interest" developed on a non-partisan basis by currently serving elected representatives, through a consensus of all parties, in the House of Commons Standing Committee rather than the substitution of another definition (addressed by amendment number 6(b)(ii)); And of the amendment of Mr. Hermanson (Kindersley -- Lloydminster), seconded by Mr. Harper (Calgary West). The debate continued. Mrs. Ablonczy, seconded by Mr. Speaker (Lethbridge), moved the following sub-amendment, -- That the amendment be amended by deleting the numbers 1, 4(a), 6(a) and 6(b)(i) and substituting the following: ``1, 4(a) and 6(a)". Debate arose thereon. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The attention of the Speaker was drawn to the want of a quorum. Accordingly, a count of the House was taken and there were fewer than 20 Members present. At 12:49 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 29(3), the Bells were sounded to call in the Members. At 12:50 p.m., a quorum was found and the Speaker ordered the ringing of the Bells stopped. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Gray (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada), seconded by Mr. Goodale (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food), -- That a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint Their Honours that this House agrees to amendment number 4(a) made by the Senate to Bill C-69, An Act to provide for the establishment of electoral boundary commissions and the readjustment of electoral boundaries, and this House disagrees with amendments numbers 1, 2, 3, 4(b), 4(c), 5, 6 and 7 for the following reasons: The bill was, in accordance with the new procedures of this House, prepared by a Committee of the House. While amendment number 4(a) corrects an omission, the other amendments address points, each of which were supported by Members representing at least two of the three parties officially recognized in the House. Taken together, the bill represents a balance aimed at improving the responsiveness of the system of readjusting electoral boundaries both to rapid shifts of population and to the operative realities of effective representation of the people, a balance that, in the opinion of this House, requires: (a) in view of the varied Canadian geography and demography, the retention of a variation of up to 25% from the electoral quota of each province (addressed by amendments numbers 1 and 6(a)); (b) the avoidance of unnecessary electoral boundary adjustments in provinces where shifts of population do not require them (addressed in amendments number 2, 3, 5, 6(b)(i) and 7); (c) the clear acceptance of the non-partisan status of members of commissions through the provision of parliamentary oversight of appointments (addressed by amendments number 4(b) and 4(c)); (d) the retention of the definition of ``community of interest" developed on a non-partisan basis by currently serving elected representatives, through a consensus of all parties, in the House of Commons Standing Committee rather than the substitution of another definition (addressed by amendment number 6(b)(ii)); And of the amendment of Mr. Hermanson (Kindersley -- Lloydminster), seconded by Mr. Harper (Calgary West); And of the sub-amendment of Mrs. Ablonczy, seconded by Mr. Speaker (Lethbridge). The debate continued. The question was put on the sub-amendment and, pursuant to Standing Order 45(5)(a), the recorded division was deferred until Monday, June 19, 1995, at the ordinary hour of daily adjournment. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The Order was read for the consideration at report stage of Bill C-70, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Income Tax Application Rules and related Acts, as reported by the Standing Committee on Finance with amendments. Mr. Marchi (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration) for Mr. Martin (Minister of Finance), seconded by Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), moved, -- That the Bill be concurred in at report stage. The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:

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(Division--Vote N^o 298)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Adams -- Alcock -- Allmand -- Anawak -- Arseneault -- Assadourian -- Augustine -- Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) -- Barnes -- Beaumier -- Bellemare -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Bhaduria -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Boudria -- Brown (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Catterall -- Chamberlain -- Chan -- Cohen -- Collenette -- Comuzzi -- Cowling -- Culbert -- Dhaliwal -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Duhamel -- Eggleton -- English -- Fewchuk -- Finestone -- Finlay -- Fontana -- Fry -- Gaffney -- Gagliano -- Gallaway -- Godfrey -- Goodale -- Gray (Windsor West) -- Grose -- Guarnieri -- Harb -- Harvard -- Hopkins -- Hubbard -- Ianno -- Irwin -- Jackson -- Jordan -- Keyes -- Kilger (Stormont -- Dundas) -- Kirkby -- Kraft Sloan -- Lastewka -- Lavigne (Verdun -- Saint-Paul) -- LeBlanc (Cape/Cap-Breton -- Lee -- Lincoln -- Loney -- Highlands -- Canso) -- MacAulay -- MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton -- The Sydneys) -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Marchi -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McKinnon -- McLellan (Edmonton Northwest) -- McTeague -- Mifflin -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- O'Brien -- Pagtakhan -- Parrish -- Patry -- Payne -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Pillitteri -- Reed -- Rideout -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Rock -- Rompkey -- Scott (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Sheridan -- Skoke -- Speller -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart (Brant) -- Stewart (Northumberland) -- Szabo -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Thalheimer -- Torsney -- Ur -- Valeri -- Vanclief -- Verran -- Volpe -- Walker -- Wappel -- Wells -- Wood -- 127

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Abbott -- Ablonczy -- Bellehumeur -- Benoit -- Bergeron -- Bernier (Gaspé) -- Bernier (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Blaikie -- Breitkreuz (Yellowhead) -- Breitkreuz (Yorkton -- Melville) -- Bridgman -- Brown (Calgary Southeast) -- Bélisle -- Caron -- Chrétien (Frontenac) -- Crête -- Cummins -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- Debien -- de Savoye -- Dumas -- Duncan -- Epp -- Fillion -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Gauthier (Roberval) -- Gilmour -- Godin -- Gouk -- Grey (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Guay -- Hanrahan -- Harper (Simcoe Centre) -- Harris -- Hart -- Hermanson -- Hill (Macleod) -- Hill (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Jacob -- Jennings -- Johnston -- Kerpan -- Landry -- Lavigne (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lebel -- Leblanc (Longueuil) -- Lefebvre -- Leroux (Shefford) -- Marchand -- Mayfield -- McClelland (Edmonton Southwest) -- McLaughlin -- Meredith -- Mills (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Ménard -- Nunez -- Picard (Drummond) -- Pomerleau -- Ramsay -- Ringma -- Rocheleau -- Sauvageau -- Schmidt -- Silye -- Solberg -- Solomon -- Stinson -- Strahl -- Thompson -- Tremblay (Rimouski -- Témiscouata) -- Venne -- Williams -- 76

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Asselin -- Bachand -- Brien -- Calder -- Canuel -- Copps -- Crawford -- Deshaies -- Dupuy -- Easter -- Gagnon (Québec) -- Guimond -- Harper (Churchill) -- Hickey -- Knutson -- Lalonde -- Laurin -- Martin (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Mercier -- O'Reilly -- Ouellet -- Plamondon Accordingly, the Bill was concurred in at report stage. Pursuant to Standing Order 76.1(11), Mr. Gray (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada) for Mr. Martin (Minister of Finance), seconded by Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a third time and do pass. Debate arose thereon. STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements. ORAL QUESTIONS Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions. ROYAL ASSENT The Speaker informed the House that the Honourable John Sopinka, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, will proceed to the Senate today at 5:15 p.m. for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain bills. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE A Message was received from the Senate as follows: -- ORDERED: That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed Bill C-81, An Act to amend An Act respecting the Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge Company, without amendment. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- GOVERNMENT ORDERS The Order was read for the third reading of Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing) and other Acts in consequence thereof. Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a third time and do pass. Debate arose thereon. MESSAGES FROM THE SENATE A Message was received from the Senate as follows: -- ORDERED: That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed Bill C-44, An Act to amend the Immigration Act and the Citizenship Act and to make a consequential amendment to the Customs Act, without amendment. GOVERNMENT ORDERS The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), -- That Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing) and other Acts in consequence thereof, be now read a third time and do pass. The debate continued. ROYAL ASSENT A Message was received from the Honourable John Sopinka, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, desiring the immediate attendance of the House in the Senate. Accordingly, the Speaker, with the House, proceeded to the Senate. The Commons returned to the Chamber. Whereupon, the Speaker reported that, when the Commons had been in the Senate, the Honourable Deputy Governor General was pleased to give, in Her Majesty's name, the Royal Assent to the following Bills: Bill C-53, An Act to establish the Department of Canadian Heritage and to amend and repeal certain other Acts -- Chapter No. 11 Bill C-43, An Act to amend the Lobbyists Registration Act and to make related amendments to other Acts -- Chapter No. 12 Bill C-75, An Act to amend the Farm Improvement and Marketing Cooperatives Loans Act -- Chapter No. 13 Bill C-81, An Act to amend An Act respecting the Buffalo and Fort Erie Public Bridge Company -- Chapter No. 14 Bill C-44, An Act to amend the Immigration Act and the Citizenship Act and to make a consequential amendment to the Customs Act -- Chapter No. 15 The Speaker also reported that he had addressed the Honourable the Deputy Governor General as follows: ``May it please Your Honour: The Commons of Canada have voted Supplies required to enable the Government to defray certain expenses of the public service. In the name of the Commons I present to Your Honour the following Bill: An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 1996 To which Bill I humbly request Your Honour's Assent." Whereupon, the Clerk of the Senate, by Command of the Deputy the Governor General, did say: ``In Her Majesty's name, the Honourable the Deputy to His Excellency the Governor General thanks Her Loyal Subjects, accepts their benevolence, and assents to this Bill." Bill C-97, Appropriation Act No. 2, 1995-96. -- Chapter No. 16. PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS At 5:40 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business. The Order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development of Bill C-317, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code and the Public Service Staff Relations Act (scabs and essential services). Mr. St-Laurent (Manicouagan), seconded by Mr. Caron (Jonquière), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development. Debate arose thereon. Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the time provided for consideration of Private Members' Business expired and the Order was dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper. GOVERNMENT ORDERS The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), -- That Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (sentencing) and other Acts in consequence thereof, be now read a third time and do pass. The debate continued. By unanimous consent, it was ordered, -- That Bill C-41, in Clause 6, be amended, in the French version, by replacing lines 40 and 41, on page 33, with the following: ``garde d'enfant qu'une telle personne a réellement engagés pour demeurer ailleurs provi-". The debate continued. At 10:27 p.m., pursuant to Order made Thursday, June 8, 1995, under the provisions of Standing Order 78(2), the Speaker interrupted the proceedings. The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:

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(Division--Vote N^o 299)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Adams -- Alcock -- Allmand -- Anawak -- Anderson -- Assad -- Assadourian -- Augustine -- Bakopanos -- Barnes -- Beaumier -- Bellehumeur -- Bellemare -- Bergeron -- Bernier (Gaspé) -- Bernier (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Bertrand -- Bevilacqua -- Bhaduria -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Bouchard -- Boudria -- Brown (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Bélisle -- Caccia -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Caron -- Catterall -- Chamberlain -- Chan -- Chrétien (Frontenac) -- Clancy -- Cohen -- Collenette -- Comuzzi -- Cowling -- Crête -- Culbert -- Daviault -- Dhaliwal -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Duhamel -- Dumas -- Easter -- Eggleton -- English -- Fillion -- Finestone -- Finlay -- Flis -- Fontana -- Fry -- Gaffney -- Gagliano -- Gagnon (Bonaventure -- Îles-de-la- -- Gallaway -- Gauthier (Roberval) -- Gerrard -- Madeleine) -- Godfrey -- Godin -- Goodale -- Graham -- Gray (Windsor West) -- Grose -- Guarnieri -- Guay -- Harb -- Hopkins -- Hubbard -- Ianno -- Jackson -- Jacob -- Keyes -- Kilger (Stormont -- Dundas) -- Kirkby -- Kraft Sloan -- Landry -- Langlois -- Lastewka -- Lavigne (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- LeBlanc (Cape/Cap-Breton Highlands -- Canso) -- Leblanc (Longueuil) -- Leroux (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Leroux (Shefford) -- Lincoln -- Loney -- Loubier -- MacAulay -- MacDonald -- MacLellan (Cape/Cap-Breton -- -- Maheu -- Maloney -- Manley -- The Sydneys) -- Marchand -- Marchi -- Marleau -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McKinnon -- McLaughlin -- McLellan (Edmonton Northwest) -- McWhinney -- Mercier -- Mifflin -- Milliken -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Ménard -- Nault -- Nunez -- O'Brien -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Parrish -- Paré -- Patry -- Payne -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Picard (Drummond) -- Pillitteri -- Pomerleau -- Reed -- Regan -- Rideout -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Rock -- Rompkey -- Sauvageau -- Scott (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Sheridan -- Simmons -- Speller -- St-Laurent -- St. Denis -- Stewart (Brant) -- Stewart (Northumberland) -- Szabo -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Thalheimer -- Torsney -- Tremblay (Rimouski -- Témiscouata) -- Tremblay (Rosemont) -- Ur -- Valeri -- Vanclief -- Verran -- Walker -- Whelan -- Wood -- Young -- Zed -- 168

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Abbott -- Ablonczy -- Benoit -- Breitkreuz (Yellowhead) -- Breitkreuz (Yorkton -- Melville) -- Bridgman -- Brown (Calgary Southeast) -- Cummins -- Duncan -- Epp -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Gilmour -- Gouk -- Grey (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Hanger -- Hanrahan -- Harper (Calgary West) -- Harper (Simcoe Centre) -- Harris -- Hart -- Hermanson -- Hill (Macleod) -- Hill (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Hoeppner -- Jennings -- Johnston -- Kerpan -- Martin (Esquimalt -- Juan de Fuca) -- Mayfield -- McClelland (Edmonton Southwest) -- McTeague -- Meredith -- Mills (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Ramsay -- Ringma -- Schmidt -- Scott (Skeena) -- Silye -- Skoke -- Solberg -- Speaker -- Steckle -- Stinson -- Strahl -- Thompson -- Wappel -- Wayne -- Williams -- 51

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Asselin -- Axworthy (Winnipeg South Centre) -- Bachand -- Bethel -- Brien -- Calder -- Canuel -- Chrétien (Saint-Maurice) -- Copps -- Crawford -- Debien -- Deshaies -- Dupuy -- Easter -- Gagnon (Québec) -- Guimond -- Harper (Churchill) -- Hickey -- Knutson -- Lalonde -- Laurin -- Martin (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Mercier -- O'Reilly -- Ouellet -- Plamondon -- Rocheleau -- Venne Accordingly, the Bill, as amended, was read the third time and passed. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The Order was read for the consideration at report stage and second reading of Bill C-89, An Act to provide for the continuance of the Canadian National Railway Company under the Canada Business Corporations Act and for the issuance and sale of shares of the Company to the public, as reported by the Standing Committee on Transport without amendment. Pursuant to Standing Order 76(5), the Speaker selected and grouped for debate the following motions: Group No. 1 -- Motions Nos. 1, 2, 3, and 4. Group No. 2 -- Motion No. 5. Group No. 3 -- Motions Nos. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. Group No. 4 -- Motions Nos. 12 and 13. Group No. 5 -- Motion No. 14. Group No. 6 -- Motion No. 15. Group No. 1 Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 1, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by deleting Clause 8. Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 2, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 23, on page 6, the following: ``(8) This section ceases to be in effect five years after the coming into force of this Act." Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 3, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 23, on page 6, the following: ``(8) Paragraph (1)(c) ceases to be in effect five years after the coming into force of this Act." Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), seconded by Mr. Duceppe (Laurier -- Sainte-Marie), moved Motion No. 4, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 9, be amended (a) by replacing line 27, on page 6, with the following: ``jurisdiction"; and (b) by replacing line 31, on page 6, with the following: ``section 8(1); or (c) sell any subsidiary or part of the operations of CN unless CN and the purchaser have given the Minister written undertakings, in terms satisfactory to the Minister, that all reasonable steps have been taken to ensure that it will continue for a reasonable period as a viable operation and that the interests of the employees affected by the sale will, so far as is practicable, be maintained after the sale. 9.1 The Minister shall, in respect of every sale mentioned in paragraph 9(c), cause to be laid before both Houses of Parliament the undertakings given pursuant to that paragraph." Debate arose on the motions in Group No. 1. The question was put on Motion No. 1 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 2 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 3 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 4 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. Group No. 2 Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 5, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by adding after line 13, on page 7, the following: ``11.1 (1) On continuation day and during the initial period following continuation day, neither the Minister nor CN shall sell or otherwise dispose of shares to persons who are not Canadian persons. (2) In subsection (1) ``initial period'' means ninety days or such longer period as is set by order of the Governor in Council; ``Canadian person'' means (a) an individual who is a Canadian citizen or who has the right of permanent residence in Canada, or (b) a corporation registered in Canada the majority of the voting shares of which are held by (i) individuals mentioned in paragraph (a), or (ii) corporations, the majority of the voting shares of which are held by individuals mentioned in paragraph (a)." Debate arose on the motion in Group No. 2. The question was put on Motion No. 5 and it was negatived on division. Group No. 3 Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 6, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by deleting Clause 12. Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 7, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 12, be amended: (a) by replacing line 14, on page 7, with the following: ``12. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Minister, with the approval of the"; and (b) adding after line 30, on page 7, the following: ``(2) The aggregate amount of all debts of CN owed to Her Majesty in right of Canada may be reduced only by application of the proceeds of sales referred to in paragraph (1)(c), unless the amount to which it is so reduced exceeds a level that an accredited bond rating agency has certified to the Minister in writing as a level that would ensure for CN a bond rating no lower than BBB, in which case the Minister may make such further payment referred to in paragraph (1)(c) only to the extent necessary to reduce the aggregate amount to the level so certified." Mr. Mercier (Blainville -- Deux-Montagnes), seconded by Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), moved Motion No. 8, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 12, be amended (a) by replacing line 14, on page 7, with the following: ``12. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Minister, with the approval of the"; and (b) by adding after line 30, on page 7, the following: ``(2) No agreement or arrangement under paragraph (1)(a) or (b) or payment under paragraph (c), may be entered into or made until (a) the Minister has laid before the House of Commons a proposal that the agreement or arrangement be entered into or the payment be made, (b) the proposal has been referred to such committee as the House may determine, (c) the committee has reported that it approves of the proposal, and (d) the House has concurred in the report." Mr. Mercier (Blainville -- Deux-Montagnes), seconded by Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), moved Motion No. 9, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by adding after line 36, on page 7, the following new Clause: ``13.1 No transaction that is made by the Minister or CN at any time before the first day that more than fifty percent of the shares in CN are owned by parties other than Her Majesty in right of Canada (a) that would transfer to Her Majesty in right of Canada any part, subsidiary, operation or property of CN with a value exceeding one million dollars, or (b) that would transfer to a party other than Her Majesty in right of Canada any part, subsidiary, operation or property of CN with a value exceeding ten million dollars, shall be entered into until (c) the Minister has laid before the House of Commons a proposal that the transaction be entered into, (d) the proposal has been referred to such committee as the House may determine, (e) the committee has reported that it approves of the proposal, and (f) the House has concurred in the report of the committee." Mr. Mercier (Blainville -- Deux-Montagnes), seconded by Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), moved Motion No. 10, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by adding after line 36, on page 7, the following new Clause: ``13.1 (1) No transaction that is made by the Minister or CN at any time before the first day that more than fifty percent of the shares in CN are owned by parties other than Her Majesty in right of Canada (a) that would transfer to Her Majesty in right of Canada any part, subsidiary, operation or property of CN with a value exceeding one million dollars, or (b) that would transfer to a party other than Her Majesty in right of Canada any part, subsidiary, operation or property of CN with a value exceeding ten million dollars, shall be entered into unless (c) the Minister has referred the matter to the Auditor General of Canada, and (d) the Auditor General has reviewed the transaction and prepared and caused to be laid before the House of Commons, a report stating that, in the opinion of the Auditor General, the transaction is in the interest of CN and of Canada. (2) The Auditor General shall cause the report to be laid before the House of Commons within fifteen days after the date of referral by the Minister." Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), seconded by Mr. Crête (Kamouraska -- Rivière-du-Loup), moved Motion No. 11, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by adding after line 36, on page 7, the following new Clause: ``13.1 (1) The pension plan for employees of CN known as the CN Pension Plan shall continue to exist and be funded and be administered by the CN Pension Board in accordance with the rules in existence immediately prior to the coming into force of this Act. (2) The CN Pension Plan shall not be amended without the agreement of the CN Pension Board." Debate arose on the motions in Group No. 3. Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), seconded by Mr. Schmidt (Okanagan Centre), moved the following amendment to Motion No. 7, -- That Motion No. 7 be amended by deleting the words ``owed to Her Majesty in right of Canada". The debate continued on the motions in Group No. 3. The question was put on the amendment to Motion No. 7 and it was agreed to. Midnight The House proceeded to the putting of the question on Motion No. 7, as amended, of Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 12, be amended: (a) by replacing line 14, on page 7, with the following: ``12. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the Minister, with the approval of the"; and (b) adding after line 30, on page 7, the following: ``(2) The aggregate amount of all debts of CN may be reduced only by application of the proceeds of sales referred to in paragraph (1)(c), unless the amount to which it is so reduced exceeds a level that an accredited bond rating agency has certified to the Minister in writing as a level that would ensure for CN a bond rating no lower than BBB, in which case the Minister may make such further payment referred to in paragraph (1)(c) only to the extent necessary to reduce the aggregate amount to the level so certified." The question was put on Motion No. 7, as amended, and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 6 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 9 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. The question was put on Motion No. 11 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. Groups Nos. 4, 5 and 6 Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 12, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by deleting Clause 15. Mr. Gouk (Kootenay West -- Revelstoke), seconded by Mr. Duncan (North Island -- Powell River), moved Motion No. 13, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 15, be amended by replacing lines 1 to 3, on page 8, with the following: ``15.(1) The Official Languages Act continues to apply to CN as if it continued to be a federal institution within the meaning of that Act. (2) Subsection (1) ceases to be in effect five years after the coming into force of this Act." By unanimous consent, Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), seconded by Mr. Mercier (Blainville -- Deux-Montagnes), moved Motion

No. 14, -- That Bill C-89 be amended by adding after line 3, on page 8, the following new Clause: ``15.1 The Minister shall, no later than January 1, 1996, conclude an agreement with CN providing for CN to repair, renovate and maintain the Pont de Quebec in Quebec City and to commence work under the agreement no later than May 1, 1996." By unanimous consent, Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), seconded by Mr. Mercier (Blainville -- Deux-Montagnes), moved Motion No. 15, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 16, be amended by adding after line 15, on page 8, the following: ``(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to (a) any activity of CN within a province that operates under an agreement that subjects the activity to the jurisdiction of that province, or (b) any work, subsidiary or corporation owned by CN that is situated or operates only within one province." Debate arose on the motions in Groups Nos. 4, 5 and 6. The question was put on Motion No. 12 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 13 and it was negatived on division. The question was put on Motion No. 14 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. The question was put on Motion No. 15 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. New Group No. 7 By unanimous consent, Mr. Guimond (Beauport -- Montmorency -- Orléans), seconded by Mr. Crête (Kamouraska -- Rivière-du-Loup), moved new Motion No. 17, -- That Bill C-89, in Clause 8, be amended by adding after line 26, on page 5, the following: ``(5.1) Paragraphs 5(a), (b) and (c) apply only to (a) persons who are Canadian citizens or who have the right of permanent residence in Canada, and (b) corporations that are incorporated in Canada and are not controlled by one or more persons who are neither Canadian citizens nor persons with the right of permanent residence in Canada nor by one or more corporations that are incorporated outside Canada." Debate arose on the new motion in New Group No. 7. The question was put on new Motion No. 17 and, pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the recorded division was deferred. Pursuant to Standing Order 76(8), the House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded divisions at report stage and second reading of Bill C-89, An Act to provide for the continuance of the Canadian National Railway Company under the Canada Business Corporations Act and for the issuance and sale of shares of the Company to the public, as reported by the Standing Committee on Transport without amendment. Pursuant to Standing Order 45(5)(a), the recorded divisions were further deferred until Monday, June 19, 1995, at the ordinary hour of daily adjournment. MOTIONS Mr. Gagliano (Secretary of State (Parliamentary Affairs) and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), seconded by Mr. Boudria (Glengarry -- Prescott -- Russell), moved, -- That this House do now adjourn. The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to. PETITIONS FILED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was filed as follows:

-- by Mr. O'Brien (London -- Middlesex), concerning gun control (No. 351-3550). ADJOURNMENT At 1:09 a.m., the House adjourned until later today at 10:00 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).