[English]
I now call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.
Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.
Please be aware that the webcast will only show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.
Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. At the bottom of your screen, please select “floor”, “English” or “French”. Also, please speak very slowly and do not speak over each other; otherwise, the interpreters cannot do their important work. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. All comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.
As is my normal practice, I will hold up a yellow card when you have 30 seconds remaining in your intervention, and a red card when your time for speaking has expired. We have a lot of witnesses today. Please respect the time so that I don't have to cut you off.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 5, 2020, the committee is meeting today to continue its study on the development and support of the aerospace industry.
I'd like to welcome our witnesses.
[Translation]
From Airbus Canada, we have Philippe Balducchi, chief executive officer, as well as Pierre Cardin, senior vice-president, head of public affairs.
[English]
From Airbus Helicopters Canada, we have Mr. Dwayne Charette, president and chief operating officer.
[Translation]
From STELIA Aerospace St-Laurent, we have Hugo Brouillard, chief of operations and operations officer.
[English]
From Telesat, we have Daniel Goldberg, president and CEO; and Stephen Hampton, manager, government affairs and public policy.
From Unifor, we have Mr. Jerry Dias, national president; Mr. Renaud Gagné, director, Unifor Quebec; and Kaylie Tiessen, national representative, research department.
From WestJet Airlines, we have Mr. Andy Gibbons, director, government relations and regulatory affairs.
Each witness will present for five minutes, followed by a round of questions.
We will start with Airbus Canada.
[Translation]
Mr. Balducchi, you have the floor for five minutes.
:
Madam Chair and members of the committee, good morning.
I am very pleased to be here today, on behalf of Airbus Canada. You'll be hearing from colleagues of mine later.
My remarks will focus on the A220 program and related operations.
I'm going to start with a bit of background on Airbus.
Airbus has a 35-year-plus history in Canada in helicopter manufacturing. Today, we are the fourth-largest employer in Canada's aerospace sector, with some 4,000 employees. Our operations cover the A220 program, STELIA Aerospace's aerostructure activities and the work of Airbus Helicopters, in Fort Erie.
Airbus's presence has grown significantly since we launched the A220 program, the former C Series. Today, we own 75% of the program, which is based in Mirabel and employs some 2,500 people at two assembly sites—one in Mirabel and one in Mobile, Alabama, to serve the American market after the U.S. imposed tariffs.
The A220 program has received approximately 630 orders to date, 300 since July 2018, when Airbus launched the program, and over 140 aircraft have been delivered on four continents.
Even though the in-service fleet has performed remarkably well since the pandemic began, attesting to the high quality of the aircraft, the A220 program has been severely affected by the COVID-19 pandemic.
[English]
If you look at the employment, you see that when you go back to July 2018 there were about 2,000 employees in Mirabel on the program. We were, pre-COVID, about 2,800 employees and ramping up to get to 3,000 people. We had to run that down, actually, and now, today, we have 2,500 people.
We were producing four aircraft per month before COVID hit us and were preparing to ramp up to five aircraft per month at Mirabel. We are now producing three aircraft per month at Mirabel, and we expect to slowly ramp back up in 2021.
We delivered 48 aircraft in 2019, all from Mirabel. In 2020, 32 aircraft were delivered from Mirabel and six from Mobile, Alabama. This means that basically we can say that for the A220 program, the crisis has put us back roughly two years, with a significant impact as well on the commercial momentum.
How can Canada help the industry beyond just Airbus Canada? The first thing is that Canada needs to support the airlines. The airlines are the pillar of the industry. It all starts with the airlines, and for one year they have been at the forefront of the crisis. With the border restrictions preventing all international traffic from coming back up, today they are at about 20% of the 2019 levels on international travel. Airlines are suffering tremendously in terms of cash, operations, head counts and massive layoffs.
Other countries are supporting their airlines, and Canadian airlines are at risk of being disadvantaged compared to international airlines trying to fly back to Canada, which would have benefited from government aid.
The second thing is to support, obviously, the overall aerospace industry. It is important to understand that aerospace is a global industry that competes and partners across the world. It goes from a few large OEMs to some very large tier one suppliers, and then down to a myriad of tier two, tier three and tier four suppliers which can be small and fragile. The investments are very heavy and the lead times are very long.
If you look specifically at Canada, you see the aerospace sector is the third exporting sector in Canada. About 70% to 80% of the aerospace production in Canada is exported. As for the countries to which aerospace is exported by Canada, the U.S.A. is number one, and Germany and France are numbers two and three. You then find, for instance, Latvia as the fourth and Egypt as the sixth. Basically it's companies to which the A220 is delivered.
What you need to do to help is to ensure, first, that exportation remains available through EDC, and that EDC remains active in supporting the aerospace sector. The next is to provide urgent and short-term relief to our industry. Postpone some of the reimbursement of repayable loans granted to industry across various federal programs. Implement government guarantees to give oxygen to the more fragile companies. Set up development and consolidation funds.
We also need to have a more comprehensive strategy that is looking beyond the very short-term and urgent support to longer-term issues to support the R and D, to support the projects that are already ongoing to help enhance the competitiveness of the product—
:
Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to be here today to discuss the development and support of the aerospace sector.
Airbus Helicopters has been a proud member of Canada's aerospace sector since 1984. Today, Airbus is a leading supplier of helicopters in Canada, supporting a fleet of more than 760 helicopters flown by 220 operators throughout Canada.
Our headquarters and main manufacturing facility is in Fort Erie, Ontario. We also have an eastern sales office located in Montreal and a western Canada sales support office in British Columbia, with a 24-7 customer support network and a team of technical representatives supporting our customers throughout the country.
As my colleague Philippe mentioned, Airbus Helicopters Canada is part of Airbus's robust industrial footprint in Canada, which covers commercial aircraft, defence and space, as well as other Airbus companies, such as NavBlue and Stelia, which you'll be hearing from during this meeting.
Airbus Helicopters is the world's number one helicopter manufacturer. It's a global leader in providing the most efficient civil and military helicopter solutions to our customers who serve, protect, save lives and safely carry passengers in highly demanding environments.
Safety really is at the core of all Airbus activities and everything we do, from design, engineering and production to maintenance, training and our partnerships.
Airbus Helicopters' activities in Canada are focused in five primary areas: aircraft sales and delivery, composite manufacturing, repair and overhaul, supplemental-type certificates and option development. I'd like to take an opportunity to highlight two of these areas.
Our Fort Erie facility is a centre of excellence for engineering and composite manufacturing. We are a sole-source supplier of eight different platform types flying globally. Airbus Helicopters Canada produces composite components for a variety of our leading models internationally, sold in more than 100 markets. It's fair to say that if you've seen an Airbus helicopter flying anywhere in the world, it will have parts that were manufactured in Canada at our Fort Erie facility.
We also have a repair and overhaul department, which is a centre of excellence for single engine dynamic components. This department provides overhaul and repair services to Airbus helicopter operators worldwide for the light single engine product range. Today more than 50% of our workforce in Fort Erie is working on products that we export.
As an essential business in the Niagara region, our doors have remained open throughout COVID to support our customers' life-saving missions, as well as the global supply chain for Airbus.
I have only five minutes, so I'm going to jump through this before I get the card.
Notable para-public organizations that fly Airbus helicopters include the Nova Scotia Department of Natural Resources, Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources and Forestry, and STARS air ambulance, which provides air ambulance services in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Also, seven of eight police forces that operate airborne law enforcement units in Canada fly Airbus helicopters. They include the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Ontario Provincial Police and Calgary Police Service, just to name a few. On the commercial side, we have a number of key operators that fly in western and eastern Canada, as well here in Niagara, in our backyard.
Helicopter operators in Canada have been deeply affected by the double whammy of the COVID-19 pandemic and the severe slowdown in the resources sector. In 2020, many of our operators experienced the worst year in their history. A number have already gone bankrupt or pulled out of the sector entirely. Therefore, as this committee considers means of supporting the aerospace sector through the recovery and beyond, I would encourage you to think broadly and remember that the aerospace sector includes helicopters.
When it comes to government procurement, it is critical that those serving in uniform are equipped with the best tools and technologies available to perform their essential life-saving missions protecting Canadians. We fully support strategies aimed at leveraging defence procurement to produce economic benefits for Canada, which is precisely what the industrial and technological benefits policy value proposition—
Accelerating fleet renewal programs [Technical difficulty—Editor] in the medium term. However, with two helicopter OEMs in Canada, it's important to ensure that tenders remain a competitive process where the winners are chosen based on the merits of their offerings and not due to political interference.
Fair and open competition drives innovation and investment, and I can tell you that nothing undermines the desire of large multinationals to invest in a country more than when competitions for government procurement are seen to be unfair, biased or designed to favour one company over another.
As I mentioned previously, 50% of our workforce is focused on producing products—
:
Madam Chair, members of the committee and colleagues, good morning.
I am very glad to appear before you today representing Stelia Aerospace Canada. Thank you for inviting me and for taking an interest in Canada's aerospace industry, especially during these uncertain times, which will no doubt accelerate changes already under way around the world.
I'd like to start with an overview of Stelia Aerospace's organizational structure. We are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Airbus group. We supply metallic and composite aerostructures, as well as aircraft seating for pilots, and first class and business class passengers. We have the capacity to design, test, qualify, manufacture, equip and deliver completed aircraft sections and seat solutions directly in the last-stage assembly lines of our clients.
We employ some 7,000 people across 14 sites around the world, including nine manufacturing subsidiaries. Three of those nine subsidiaries employ a thousand people in Canada: first, Stelia North America, specializing in composite structures, employs 460 people in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, and Blainville, Quebec; second, Stelia Aerospace Canada, specializing in aerostructure assembly, employs 180 people in Mirabel; and third, Stelia Aerospace St-Laurent, newly established in February 2020 and specializing in the assembly of A220 cockpits and rear fuselage sections, employs 360 people. We are transitioning to a new plant being built in Mirabel and slated for launch at the beginning of the third quarter of 2021.
Employees performing these direct jobs in Canada earn an average of $70,000 yearly. In addition, we contribute to more than 150 indirect jobs at our Canadian suppliers.
Owing to the global COVID-19 pandemic, our clients had no other choice but to postpone their orders after their clients—airlines and business jet clients— cancelled and delayed deliveries.
Our order volume and five-year forecasts have dropped drastically, more than 30% to date. Order cancellations and postponed deliveries have forced us to adapt very quickly, given that we had already invested in building a plant and acquiring cutting-edge technology to the tune of $61 million over three years. We are now in survival mode.
There is no doubt that had we had a clearer read on events, we would have done things completely differently.
The vast majority of revenues generated by Canada's aerospace industry flow from the demand for new aircraft from airlines and business jet clients. Orders are then placed with aircraft manufacturers, who, in turn, are our clients.
For that reason, we hope to count on three pillars of immediate support for the recovery. The first is strong demand for the construction of new-generation aircraft, along with direct and immediate assistance for buyers—in other words, airlines—and contract givers—aircraft manufacturers and original equipment manufacturers. This would ensure the short- and medium-term benefits were felt across the industry. This is a global strategy, one Canada should take part in to keep its own aerospace industry. The second pillar is direct support for financial obligations that we had previously incurred, that is, significant investments that were made before our revenues dropped by more than 30%. The third and final pillar is programming support to help us face the growing competition from emerging countries that boast low labour costs and low tax rates, as well as industrialized countries that invest heavily in concrete projects offering tax breaks.
Canada has long had a strong aerospace hub, bolstered by its aircraft, engine and simulator manufacturers, and in turn, their networks of local suppliers.
Given that the marketplace is more competitive than ever, I want to end by sharing some personal experience.
I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to set up and run a number of aerostructure plants in emerging markets. These good-quality jobs are highly prized by countries such as Mexico, Tunisia, Turkey, the Kingdom of Morocco and several Asian nations, all of which invest heavily in growing their aerospace sectors. China decided to take it a step further and develop its own market of original equipment manufacturers.
Stelia chose Canada, first, because of its proximity to the client and, second, because of its aerospace expertise. Those conditions now exist in the countries I just mentioned, countries that are investing heavily in the aerospace sector and enhancing their own capacity.
We are at a turning point. It will be hard to make up the lost ground, but all is not lost. The government needs to create the conditions to protect what we have, while making our marketplace more attractive, competitive and productive.
Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for your consideration and your time.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the invitation to participate today.
Telesat is one of the world’s largest and most innovative satellite operators, operating for over 50 years from our headquarters here in Ottawa. As a proud Canadian company, we play a central role in Canada’s connectivity infrastructure.
This hearing comes at a critical time for the aerospace sector, including the commercial space industry. Like many sectors around the world, ours is facing significant disruption and change. While the COVID-19 pandemic has hurt our business, the larger disruption we’re facing stems from changes in technology and the hyper competitive global market that we compete in.
Telesat identified these changes early and we're used to competing. As a result, we began innovating and investing heavily to reorient the company to become a world leader in delivering broadband Internet connectivity, demand for which is exploding globally.
In this regard, last month we officially unveiled the most ambitious and innovative project in our long history: an investment of six and a half billion dollars in a state-of-the-art low-earth orbit, or LEO, satellite constellation known as Telesat Lightspeed.
Lightspeed will deliver significant economic and social benefits to Canada, including supporting fast, affordable, reliable and secure broadband connectivity and 5G services throughout the entire country, the criticality of which the pandemic has strongly underscored. Lightspeed also delivers huge capital investment and high-quality, high-paid jobs in the Canadian aerospace sector, which comes at a time when investment and preserving and creating jobs have never been more important.
Three weeks ago, we announced with Premier Legault a $1.6-billion investment by Telesat into the Quebec aerospace ecosystem, creating over 600 new high-skilled, high-paying jobs across the province while maintaining another 650 jobs at MDA’s Montreal facility. As part of this investment, a significant percentage of the Lightspeed constellation will be manufactured in Quebec. We're also establishing extensive technical operations in the province.
Lightspeed is the largest space program ever conceived in Canada. It’s exactly what Canada and the Canadian aerospace sector need. The new space economy is one of the fastest-growing industries in the world, with the global space industry estimated to nearly triple to over a trillion dollars U.S. a year over the next two decades. Next generation satellite connectivity, like Lightspeed, is responsible for the majority of this growth.
We’re not the only ones who see this massive opportunity. Telesat competes in one of the most competitive and dynamic industries in the world. Our competitors are among some of the largest, most innovative companies on the planet, and they’re working hand in glove with their governments in this fast-growing, highly strategic market. These governments—the U.S., the EU, China, Russia and India—recognize the significant benefits of the new space economy, from job creation to intellectual property creation, and are investing billions of dollars each year to help their domestic companies compete. The Government of Quebec also recognizes the strong growth potential in space, and we’re pleased that they’re investing $400 million in our Lightspeed constellation and supporting other space initiatives with roots in the province as well.
I’m pleased also with the endorsement we’ve received from the federal government, particularly our partnership to use Lightspeed to help bridge the digital divide in Canada, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t raise again with this committee the importance of something that we discussed when I appeared before you last November to discuss rural broadband connectivity, namely, the pending proceeding at ISED to repurpose for 5G use certain spectrum that Telesat presently uses across Canada to provide a whole range of vital services.
As we discussed when I spoke with you last November, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission paid our much larger competitors approximately $16 billion to clear this same spectrum in the United States for 5G—spectrum they just auctioned to AT&T and others in the highest-grossing spectrum auction in history. Our competitors are using these funds to invest against us.
We made a proposal to ISED to clear this same spectrum and reinvest all the proceeds into our Lightspeed constellation and to safely transition all those important existing services.
Listen. We're in a very competitive environment. We're innovating. We're investing. If we're successful, we are going to be the largest satellite operator in the world, and we're just looking for the government to make the right decisions.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
:
Thank you for the invitation to provide input into this important study on development and support for Canada's aerospace industry.
With me today is Renaud Gagné, Unifor Quebec director.
As you are well aware, the aerospace industry is incredibly important to the economic success of our country. There is no question that the aerospace industry is in trouble. Unifor has consistently monitored the state of the aerospace industry in Canada throughout the pandemic. In general, the industry fared better than others in the early stages of the pandemic; however, it has become obvious that the worst is yet to come.
When the pandemic began, approximately 40% of our members in the aerospace sector were laid off due to emergency orders and the desire to keep workers and the public safe. Many of our members went back to work, but 8% of those layoffs were not rescinded. Since our last calculations, even more layoffs have been announced. All of the layoff announcements are devastating.
One that stands out for me is the announcement that De Havilland Aircraft will stop producing the iconic Dash 8 aircraft at the Downsview, Ontario, plant, a move that affects nearly 700 of our members. I'm on a leave of absence from that plant. I am a De Havilland Aircraft employee. I'm clock number 28091, just for the record.
The current build schedule shows end of production in May of this year. Prior to the pandemic, De Havilland's order book was healthy, and research and development were in full swing. Around the world, thousands of aircraft were grounded, and the order book at the company quite literally emptied. Regional routes are predicted to be the first to recover. This is the Dash 8's market. We know demand will return, and we need to make sure production capacity will be there when it does.
To mitigate layoffs, our members at Boeing are utilizing the EI work-sharing program right now. This is a great short-term and medium-term solution, but they need to know that commercial aerospace work is coming back. Bombardier recently announced layoffs as well—a hundred at the facilities in Toronto and 700 in Quebec.
Renaud will go into further details about the situation in Quebec, but I wanted to drive home the point about layoffs here. Pratt & Whitney has laid off hundreds of workers. The list goes on and on.
The aerospace industry is a leading technology creator and invests extensively in research and development. That investment bleeds into other industries and sustains an entire ecosystem of good jobs and economic growth across the country. Letting the aerospace industry wither is simply not an option because of the risk that would pose to the future economic stability and growth we need.
Canada must continue to foster and develop a strong aerospace industry that will make our country a global leader in advanced manufacturing. To do this, we will need to keep our highly trained aerospace workers connected to their jobs, even while on layoff, by enhancing and extending the Canadian emergency wage subsidy.
We need an industry-focused support package, with access to liquidity for critical aerospace companies, to navigate through the pandemic.
We need governments that buy Canadian and promote Canadian-made aerospace products in both the local and export markets.
We need the federal government to create a multi-stakeholder aerospace industry council, to develop a comprehensive industrial strategy that ensures good, stable and well-paid employment opportunities, a strong and resilient domestic supply chain, thriving commercial and defence sectors and multi-stakeholder engagement.
Thank you for your time and attention. I will now pass things over to my colleague, Renaud Gagné, to provide you with further details on Quebec.
Good morning.
I would like to begin by applauding the Bloc Québécois for proposing this study and the committee members for turning their attention to such an important issue.
I know this has been said by several witnesses, but it bears repeating: the government should spare no effort to ensure the aerospace sector in Quebec and Canada survives and thrives. Looking beyond the crisis, the government must foster an environment that allows the industry to remain a leader, especially in Quebec, where the resources to build an aircraft can be sourced within a 30-kilometre radius.
Mr. Dias talked about the many layoffs, 900 of which are in Montreal, at Bombardier, Pratt & Whitney, CAE and CMC. We are talking about a sector that employs 60,000 people in Quebec. As you well know, as long as aircraft remain grounded, things will keep getting worse.
We did an analysis in Quebec, with the help of our locals, and three findings emerged. Aircraft and engine maintenance contracts, military contracts and innovative products such as CAE's ventilators are largely responsible for keeping people employed. That evidence should guide us as we look for solutions. For example, we could safeguard our procurement contracts by awarding maintenance contracts for government, military and emergency aircraft to Canadian companies; that would be a fundamental step.
Another crucial area in need of attention is research and development. The people at CAE were the first to design ventilators certified by Canadian authorities. They were able to manufacture them in record time and are now producing Pyure-brand air purifiers, which are incredibly effective at sanitizing the air and surfaces in buildings and eliminating pathogens in schools, airplanes and trains.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and committee members today and contribute to your very important study.
Over the last 25 years, WestJet's investments have fundamentally improved commercial aviation in Canada and have been an essential and key contributor to Canada's aerospace sector.
Through WestJet, 300 million Canadians have been given more democratic access to lower fares in 39 domestic markets, resulting in over $4 billion in trickle-down impacts that support suppliers, provide wages to our employees and economic activity in our cities and tourism sectors.
This crisis has had a profound impact on our entire industry, affecting over 600,000 jobs in travel and tourism and over 250,000 in aerospace, the industry we are here to speak about.
All of the witnesses today have one shared goal: an innovative, connected and prosperous Canada. Together we face an unprecedented challenge and one that will need decisive leadership. Our competitor countries have already developed plans to protect their aerospace and aviation industries and jobs. We need the same commitment here in Canada, and your study will help us forge a path forward.
In ISED's restart, recover, and reimagine prosperity expert panel, they identified air travel as the industry sector hardest hit by COVID-19 and amongst the sectors needing tailored assistance to preserve jobs and business.
Jim Quick, president of Aerospace Industries Association of Canada, noted that a safe restart plan for air travel is essential to the vitality of the aerospace sector. He said:
Airlines drive demand for the manufacturing output that makes up 69% of Canada’s aerospace and defence activity. They are also significant buyers of the maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) services that make up the remaining 31% of our sector’s business. Without question, our industry needs planes in the skies, and support for the airlines needs to include support for the industry that keeps those planes in the skies.
We could not agree more.
In that industry council report, it communicated the aerospace sector's vital importance to Canada, which included over $31 billion in revenues and its value chain of over $20 billion in contributions to the GDP with 160,000 direct jobs tied to the Canadian economy.
Its operations are well dispersed across Canada and are a strategic pillar of our knowledge and manufacturing economy. Of these firms, 93% are exporters, and 70% of the aerospace manufacturing firms co-operate with academic partners supporting our research ecosystem.
Our role at WestJet is as a key supporter and investor. In 2019, our investments totalled $2.7 billion with our suppliers and netted $5.4 billion in economic output, with 25,000 jobs associated with running our business.
For committee members, here are some examples of key partnerships of ours from coast to coast: StandardAero, $32 million in 2019; Boeing Canada, $24 million in 2019; KF Aerospace, the largest private sector employer in Kelowna, $32 million in 2019; and GE Aviation, who is also a major partner. Sadly, these expenditures and investments have taken a dramatic decline as a result of COVID.
The COVID-19 crisis and the drop in demand for air travel has had a critical and enormous impact. Our industry is reporting losses in revenue of over 40%, and 95% of our companies are reporting various levels of shutdowns.
It's not just the jobs. These companies are central to the community and cultural fabric of Canada. They invest in R and D and anchor vital aerospace hubs. A recent survey WestJet conducted of our key suppliers showed that 94% of these companies invest in key community priorities like indigenous rights, environmental organizations and local charities.
We continue to work collaboratively with our partners to plan for Canada's economic recovery. At WestJet we are not seeking policies that strictly support our bottom line. We are seeking a recovery framework that will lower the cost of travel for Canadian families, ensure our workers have appropriate wage supports, introduce green credits to continue to green our fleet, and ensure that Canada has a competitive global airline based in the west.
There are two main priorities we recommend this committee include in its report.
The first is that, given global uncertainty, we believe Canada must prioritize domestic travel and negotiate a transparent and clear policy with provincial governments. This could be based on COVID levels or based on the percentage of Canadians vaccinated. We believe this should be a priority item. We also believe that Canadians should see their country safely this summer.
The second is to transition the Alberta pilot project on arrivals testing and include funding for testing in the upcoming federal budget. The relationship between testing and quarantine requirements must evolve, and we note and appreciate the 's commitment to work on this.
To conclude, we thank our employees who have suffered so much, but we continue to serve Canadians. Everyone in our company continues to fight for you. Our approach to this crisis has been rooted in our commitment to serve Canadians and conduct ourselves in a transparent manner with all levels of government. We will continue to be a collaborative partner with all of you as we work towards a safe and responsible recovery.
Thank you.
:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
There are a couple of thoughts that I've had. I'd like to speak to the folks at WestJet.
We do still travel some around this country and of course we use WestJet. I must say that when we go into our airports and when we're on your planes, we feel safe. That's an important aspect.
I really want to emphasize the Alberta pilot project for arrivals. This was something that was very critical and of course it got short-circuited with the announcement that there were going to be these quarantine hotels and that sort of thing. You had mentioned that perhaps the was looking at new initiatives but, quite frankly, that whole policy has caused some great consternation.
I'm wondering if you can tell the committee what the impact was. I know, earlier on, when the announcement was made that anybody outside of the country had to get a test 72 hours before they departed. They didn't know what test it was, and your people were expected to be the policemen in these other countries, and when they would arrive in Canada, if it wasn't the right test, there were serious concerns.
Could you talk about the impact? I know that there are laid-off staff and slashed routes because of these issues. What has been the impact? What do you see as a way forward? Of course, your industry has not been one that has caused a lot of issues.
:
Thanks for that and thanks for flying with us. I really appreciate it.
Look, Mr. Dreeshen, through you, Madam Chair, just quickly on impacts, prior to COVID we had over 14,000 active WestJetters and today we're just shy of 5,000. It has been absolutely nothing short of devastating for our people, and if you know our people, you know it's not just a job for them. They love our company and love what they do.
I won't get into the fleet statistics. You know how much we're down. I would rather focus, as you said, on the path forward. We understand the hotel policy to be a travel deterrent and job well done. It has deterred travel. It was specifically designed to do so, but while we are deterring travel and while we are taking extreme measures to curb variants and other things, now is the time to properly plan, to properly plan for the summer, to properly prioritize domestic travel and to replace the hotel policy, which is a deterrent, with something like the Calgary pilot that balances all of these objectives.
It was Dr. Hinshaw herself who talked about how the Calgary pilot was one of the reasons they were able to catch the variant and curb the spread of the variant. We can use testing as a tool instead of blunt instruments like hotels, and we're hoping to transition. I just want to flag for you that we did agree with the government to pull down our sun flying. That was not a happy day in our company but we did agree to do so.
The did come out and make two commitments. He committed to the safe restart of the travel and tourism sector, and he committed to reviewing the relationship between testing and quarantine. So we're hopeful. We appreciate those words and now we really are focusing on that plan and what Canada's restart plan will be.
Finally, for your interest, I would look at the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom put out a restart plan for their country and it included aviation and travel and tourism, and they set a very clear date. They said that on May 17 they intend to open. I think setting dates and goals and ambition is important. It doesn't mean you care less about COVID. What it does mean is that you recognize the critical nature of this work and our employees, and let's be clear: a restart is what's going to get our people back to work.
:
I think there are several things.
First, we need to somehow rehabilitate the aerospace sector in front of the students, the general public, and to remind them it is a high-tech industry. It's not only a low-tech industry. There is a lot of hype about digital. You find a lot of digital activities in the airplane, and I think we need to pass that message around that it is not a 20th century activity, that it is a 21st century activity.
Then you need to support some existing projects. I'll take the example of the A220, if I may. Today, the A220 is the cleanest aircraft. It is clearly a green aircraft. There are a lot of questions about looking for the next generation, for hydrogen, electric, and that's right. We need that, and Canada should definitely support this very long-term initiative.
You also note support of the existing platforms in the short term, the ongoing existing developments we are investing in, which by the way are difficult, given the specific situation. Some projects had to be delayed, but those developments are supporting green aircraft today, and this needs to be pushed.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning to the witnesses and my fellow members.
I'd like to start with a question for Mr. Brouillard.
I think we need to recognize that aerospace is a strategic industry, so we should embrace that culture and look at things differently. It's not a simple market. Ontario recognizes that its auto industry is strategic and consistently consults industry stakeholders. There is a standing consultation mechanism.
I would think, Mr. Brouillard, that, given your involvement with Airbus and the others, you are in regular contact with the Canadian government.
:
In Quebec, we are working actively with Aéro Montréal. Some 25,000 out of 60,000 jobs will have to be replaced in the next decade. We saw what happened in 2008: it took nearly six years to restore the level of employment, in 2019, before the pandemic. Investing in technical schools to train the workers of tomorrow is fundamental.
Every country in the world is supporting its aerospace industry. Unfortunately, our industry needs help, especially in Quebec, where I work, but also in Canada. The industry employs 60,000 people. We can access the resources to build a plane within a 30-kilometre radius. The engineering firms and necessary facilities are all in place. Without solid programs and investments, the industry won't be there to meet the demand of tomorrow.
Our industry has already fallen in the world rankings, so investment is needed to keep the industry from losing its current standing in the world. Whether it's Bombardier's C Series or Global 7500 aircraft, we have the expertise here. CAE's capacity attests to that: the company can do a lot more, including the famous air purifiers it will be installing in its simulators. It's a fairly simple technology that reproduces the sun's effects in the environment. We are talking about 55,000 units. If the same technology could be used everywhere, we could create thousands of jobs in Quebec and Canada. People just need to know about the technology and its ability to fight things like COVID-19 in workplaces, on airplanes and in other modes of transportation.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses here today.
I will start with Unifor.
With regard to the De Havilland and the Bombardier projects in the greater Toronto area, this trained and value-added manufacturing workforce, once dissipated, will be hard to bring back. What plans have been laid out to either have some domestic procurement or have some type of production?
One thing that most concerns Canadians is the question of if we provide supports, what we get in return. Some companies have taken money, some of which has gone offshore. Some of it has gone to bonuses and executive salaries and hasn't been put toward working or procurement products that keep Canadians working.
If we keep them working, then they're off employment insurance and CERB and other things. Perhaps Unifor can provide some of the solutions that they are projecting to do the recovery, especially since, as has been noted, the Dash 8 is a regional carrier. It was a political decision to keep regional airlines connected, and perhaps modern air fleets could actually be part of the solution to keep both things going.
:
I have to admit it was a lot easier when Air Canada was owned by the federal government. The procurement discussions and decisions were a lot easier.
I've spent a lot of time defending the government's contributions to the aerospace industry. Why? It's a pretty simple math equation to me. For every dollar that the government invests in the aerospace industry, they get $100 back. With those types of odds, anybody would invest.
It's the types of jobs that are created and the wages that are pumped back into the economy. Of course, it's about the taxes that are paid by the corporations, as well. The payback is significant. That's why the major governments around the world invest in their aerospace industry.
I'm concerned about De Havilland Aircraft, about Bombardier and about Downsview. I know right now that Bombardier is working with the federal and provincial governments to hopefully break ground shortly at Pearson. I know that Bombardier has requested some assistance through the federal government's strategic innovation fund.
The bottom line is that these are skills you just can't replace. We do the final assembly of the Global Express, which is the jewel of the Bombardier fleet. That shovel needs to get in the ground quickly, because post-pandemic, we're going to need a strong industry to put people back to work.
It's the same with the Dash 8. It's been a great program. I personally worked on it. I'm a sheet metal worker by trade with De Havilland Aircraft, and I am absolutely surprised and disillusioned that this plant will be shut down in May.
I would suggest that government procurement, through border and post patrol, might be a way to have some orders in the book to keep that plant going in the short term.
Thank you for your questions.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Mr. Gibbons, I just saw that you cancelled an order with Mr. Balducchi for 15 Boeing 737 Max aircraft. Unfortunately, the COVID-19 pandemic is hitting aircraft manufacturers extremely hard.
Mr. Balducchi, you talked about sending a signal earlier. On Tuesday, we heard from Aéro Montréal's president and chief executive officer; she said that Canada had turned its back on the aerospace industry over the past five years, especially this past year, with its decision not to give the industry any direct support apart from the programs that were available to everyone.
With companies like WestJet being forced to cancel their airplane orders, do you foresee repercussions in the long term? We are talking about the future. Obviously, we can't spend time dwelling on the past, but what has happened in recent years is an important predictor of the future.
What strategic measures should the Canadian government put in place to help the industry?
:
Thanks very much, Madam Chair.
I want to start with Mr. Gibbons.
I agree, by the way, that the travel rules ought to be altered and that we should have a much stronger focus on testing. I think that would be better for everyone.
When we look at the potential federal support, we've seen the federal government commit to supporting the airline sector. When you look at the crisis in 2009, the Conservative government of the day supported the auto industry and took equity. When you look at what Germany has done with Lufthansa, it's a significant bailout, but again, they're taking a government stake.
Is this something that the federal government ought to consider and if not, why not?
:
On that issue there has been a lot of discussion about the parallel with 2009. I think it's really important to note that the situation our company is in is nothing like 2009 and automobile manufacturers.
In 2009, the government never prevented Ford or Chrysler or any other company from selling its automobiles. That is the case with our company today. It's a very important distinction.
WestJet is not a failing company. We're not in this situation because of a bad strategy, bad labour relations or any other historic issue that's tied to government support. We are in a very different set of circumstances.
Our CEO did send a letter on December 10 to all members of Parliament and senators that talked about our priorities.
I would just encourage you.... I can't talk about our negotiations, but—
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I can take that question. Jerry must have been kicked out.
Our members pay dues to the union. The union fights for all sorts of things, including better training. In the aerospace sector, we're always talking about improved and increased training for the sector so that we're investing in the workers of the future. We often hear from employers that there is a shortage of skilled workers in the sector, so investing in training is a really important piece of this. We partner with employers and, particularly in Quebec, with local educational institutions to make sure that training is available. It's certainly something we would encourage the federal government to invest in more as well. Many of you have seen our document that lists all of our recommendations to government on this issue. I would be happy to make sure that's sent to each of you.
In addition to that, we do have things like the social justice fund, where a portion of members' dues is donated to different organizations. Our members often work together to collect money that is donated in their communities as well to make sure there is this cyclical type of improvement in the community for everyone.
I hope that answers your question.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being with us today. Thank you for your comments.
First of all, I would like to thank Airbus Helicopters for deciding to locate in our riding. They have been there since 1984, and I thank them for that. I also had the opportunity to tour the facility this past summer with Mr. Charette, and I was quite impressed.
Mr. Charette, as we look to sustain post-pandemic growth, what in terms of needs are required from the federal government? When we met, we talked about issues with regard to training and retention, about offering jobs in those new technologies and working with local higher educational institutions to recruit into that high-skilled sector as well as the kind of R and D that is required to go into the future. You also mentioned procurement opportunities. I see the great success that you have municipally and with provincial government agencies with your helicopters. What more can be done from a federal perspective on procurement opportunities for Airbus Helicopters?
:
Thank you for the question. There are several topics there. I tried to write them down to make sure that I address them all.
On the federal procurement process, I think I touched on that during my remarks. We talked about an unbiased and fair bid procedure based on the platform, taking out any of the political landscape and really picking the best platform to meet the mission for the end use. Traditionally, I would say, the procurement process in Canada is quite long. I know of a couple of campaigns that have been ongoing in Canada. We've been talking about them for a number of years. I see my colleagues in the U.S., when something in a campaign arises, talk about it. There's quite a large campaign; it goes to tender and it's awarded before we even have basically, I would say, the draft requirements released here. This is something that's seen as a long, arduous process. We certainly believe in due diligence, but I think this is something that could be looked at from the speed of the procurement process.
As for training and people, definitely I believe there's a disconnect today, when we see what's being offered by way of post-secondary education. We are an aerospace company. We talk about having advanced manufacturing process controls. This is something that I'm not sure is being addressed by the educational institutions.
We have needs. I'll just highlight composites as an example. Traditionally, when people thought of aerospace, they would look at a sheet metal technician. Today, with composites, what we look at are engineered, high-performing materials. You need people who understand how they work and how to work with them.
One disadvantage that I find we have today, because we compete globally, is that we take on the responsibility to train many of the people we have working for us, for the simple fact that the skill set is not one that's offered out there and which they're able to acquire in the general educational framework that we have today.
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Certainly at the group level, a fair amount of R and D goes on, with the zero emissions that we're working on, the environment, and Blue Edge blades. These are all things that are done, I would say, at the group level.
The R and D that we struggle with comes into play when we look at the process improvements and the manufacturability of the product. There really are, I would say, very few, if any, programs that really make sense for us. Again, we find ourselves in a position in which we're investing significantly to develop the employees through on-the-job training. Again, there's also a learning curve involved.
These would be my key points: certainly some sort of funding program that could help us or, If it's not available in the public domain, some way to offset the cost to Airbus to train these people.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
This pandemic is an unprecedented and major disrupter that foreshadows a new normal for the airline industry, the aerospace industry and indeed the world economy. We've heard a lot of discussion about what's needed for the survival of the industry and for a safe restart.
I note also, though, that the Globe and Mail has published an article that says that Canada's aviation industry needs a total overhaul, not just a bailout.
My questions are for WestJet and Airbus.
In your long-term planning, what is the new normal that you see for the airline industry? What do you see as critical elements that are needed to respond to these changes?
I'll start with WestJet.
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I think the first thing to note is that the definition of long term in our sector has fundamentally changed. I think all of our forecasting and other issues have really changed. We're developing an investment schedule month per month now, whereas we used to do it twice a year. Everything has changed.
I don't know the article you're referring to, but I can talk about some of the critical issues you're touching on.
I'm going to leave out the safe restart, Mr. Van Bynen, because we've talked a lot about that, but there are two things. First would be the prioritization of domestic travel and the second would be a more appropriate arrivals testing regime for international traffic.
The other issue that I think you're getting to is the cost of travel. In Canada, the cost of travel has been a major achievement of WestJet. In 2019, I believe that fares had been stagnant for about two decades, and we were saying in 2019 that Canadians had never been more affordably connected to each other and to the world. If you consider 2019 to be a very high mark for affordability, accessibility and for communities gaining access, the policies that supported that were okay in good times, but they won't work in bad times.
There was the example just yesterday of the president of Southwest Airlines making an announcement that they were going to be investing in Bellingham, Washington. He cited government taxes and fees as the reason Southwest was investing in Bellingham, Washington. He didn't say WestJet's planes suck. He didn't say Swoop can't compete. We can compete globally. What he cited was government policy.
We need to be really careful about the cost of travel. The government has not supported Nav Canada or airports. Both of these key partners have had to increase their fees. That hurts Canadian travellers, so I would highlight that issue.
As it relates to aerospace, Abbotsford wants to keep developing their aerospace hub, and a key and vibrant airport with commercial aviation services is a key factor for that. You've heard that today from Philippe, Jerry and others, so it's all interrelated, but the fact that the president of an American airline is citing government policy as the basis for his investment decision is troubling. Frankly, I don't think we'd accept that if it were steel, aluminum or an agricultural product. We simply wouldn't. Those are Canadian jobs being exported across the border.
:
It's very lovely to see you, MP Romanado. Thank you very much for the kind, warm welcome.
I'd also like to take a moment to thank my shadow minister for jobs and industry, the MP for Carleton, or as I like to say, the shadow minister for “are we going to be okay”.
I'd also like to take a moment to recognize my colleague, Nate Erskine-Smith. I am looking forward to being on the panel with him tomorrow evening with the Runnymede Society.
Nate, I'm going to warn you, I'll be eating meat tomorrow, so the brain is going to be turned on. Watch out for that.
It's certainly good to be here.
Here we are, one year later after the pandemic has begun. Unfortunately, as I have talked about repeatedly both in the House and at transport committee, there is no plan for the air sector. It's unbelievable that we're here a year later and there is still nothing, despite repetitive calls from the industry on all fronts to have a plan. As I've said over and over again within the House and committee, the industry has invested significantly in the effort to maintain their industry and prevent its demise through their implementation of pilots, rapid testing, testing on arrival and testing on departure, but here we are.
Mr. Gibbons, I wish you could go into when we could expect this plan. I tell you, I've been let down so many times. In Reuters in December, and the Globe and Mail two weeks ago.... I am waiting and waiting and the word I keep hearing is “imminent”.
Is there anything you can say at all in terms of when we could possibly see this plan?
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We need them to bring to life the 's commitments from January 29.
The Prime Minister made two very encouraging commitments and I want to thank him for those commitments. He stated that the Government of Canada will review the relationship between testing and quarantine. He indicated that the government is committed to the safe restart of travel and tourism.
The reason the letter you cite states April 30 is that is the date we agreed to suspend our sun flying until. It's based on our understanding that the current hotel policy is a temporary policy. It is a temporary policy to deter travel and it is a temporary policy to curb the spread of variants. We understand that, but while we are frozen, now is the time to work on that plan.
I don't speak for the government, obviously, but I hope they will continue speaking to their commitment. I hope they're committed to fulfilling that commitment. There is some really positive indication of this so far from and others in the government.
The important thing to note here, MP Kusie, is that this is not just about airlines. It's our entire travel and tourism sector. There are hoteliers and others who are waiting right now to know whether or not they should be hiring staff for the summer.
We do need lead time and we do need urgency. We'll just continue to plug at it and work with our labour partners, hoteliers and tourism operators as best we can.
:
That's an excellent response, Mr. Gibbons. Thank you so much.
You're right. The McMaster pilot showed very clearly that 1% were arriving with the virus, 0.7% were caught in that first test and 0.3% on the second test. Less than 0.1% were attributed to people potentially breaking quarantine, although we don't like to talk about that too much.
You mentioned market share loss leakage to the United States. I am very focused on what I call the three Bs: Bellingham, Burlington and Buffalo. I'm very glad you mentioned that.
I'm sure that your other colleagues who are on this call today feel the same hope, which is that the government will come through, and disappointment.
I remember very clearly the powerful October—
:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for their input.
As I look at the aerospace industry, we've talked about what I characterized as the three dimensions: civil aviation, defence and space. Today we heard a lot from organizations and companies that are in civil aviation, both for the short term and the longer term, on what needs to be done. I'd like to spend a little bit of time, if I may, on the defence side.
I'd like to ask Airbus Helicopters Canada what the short-term and long-term strategies should be around supporting this segment.
Specifically in your comments, Mr. Charette, you talked about defence procurement strategies, about fair competition, and about international investment playing a part so long as that environment is suitable. Can you please comment on the short-term and long-term strategies around those three pillars?
:
Really, when we look at what government procurement has been in the past and the future, we are looking for, I would say, a level playing field. It's understanding the criteria and the metrics laid out in the evaluation process, and then being, I'll say, judged on that accordingly.
When we look at investment, certainly at Airbus Helicopters—I can speak significantly for Airbus Helicopters—we've invested in Canada since 1984. We are the number one helicopter manufacturer in the world. We offer support and services. We keep the customers flying. We would dearly love the opportunity to be able to compete and support our military in Canada and see our aircraft flying.
I would say I believe every NATO country flies an Airbus helicopter, except for maybe one, so when you have questions regarding military procurement, to me it would be about being fair, unbiased, open and transparent, and really evaluating on a clearly defined metric.
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My question is for Mr. Brouillard.
It is crucial to understand the importance of the supply chain. It is obviously global and every element matters. If you don't trust where a country is, for example Canada, it can hurt its attractiveness and affect who you want to do business with.
What are the solutions you are considering so that Canada can invest? Is it a wage policy or an advantageous tax rate? How can investment be encouraged given the cost pressure you are under?
We know that the revenue may be coming in a decade or so and then the capital will need to be paid back. A competitive incentive might also be granted on rent to continue your operations in Mirabel, for example.
I'll give you a quick explanation. When we talk about the quality of the workforce that we have in Canada, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the airplane manufacturers who are now becoming more democratic. In the past, aircraft manufacturers built all the segments of the aircraft under one roof and then certified, tested and delivered the aircraft to the customer. Now, because they want to cut costs and be competitive, aircraft manufacturers have developed procurement strategies whereby the construction of the aircraft is now segmented.
I was telling you about Stelia, which is positioned as a tier 1 supplier. Now, the construction of the major parts of an aircraft, such as the cockpit, the rear fuselage, and even the wings, is not necessarily done the way it used to be, under one roof.
What we are looking for is competitiveness. Original equipment manufacturers, or aircraft manufacturers, are looking for a good cost price so as to be competitive when they offer their products to Air Canada or WestJet.
Offshoring has happened at Canada's expense, while emerging countries are investing heavily to get their piece of the pie. Original equipment manufacturers can often be seen in a positive light. We often think we are lucky in Canada to be able to make aircraft and deliver them from here, but the supply chain is also very important. When tier 1 suppliers are outsourced to countries like the ones I mentioned earlier, the entire subsequent supply chain follows: the machined part producers, the sheet metal work, the surface treatments and the whole environment that follows. Emerging countries want to get these jobs and they are training people interested in becoming aerospace engineers.
Finally, coming to a country like Canada has different consequences than settling in emerging countries. Here, when we start a new plant, we have to pay $1.3 million a year in rent. In other countries, the tax system may mean that rent is free for 10 years, which is the time it takes to rebuild our cash flow and become competitive again. This is what the market looks like today in Mexico, Turkey and Tunisia.
:
I hear that. I've been critical of the government many times in this committee—members know that—but, to be fair to the government, what we heard from Nav Canada's president is that they laid off people. They paid out bonuses to their managers. When I asked if they got a support package from the government, they wouldn't commit to not providing more bonuses.
There is a real corporate problem at Nav Canada, I think, since it's privatization. Furthermore, how can Canadians in good conscience want to provide the bonus money for people right now as they are laying off workers? I think that's the problem that Nav Canada faces in the public. I think that's an issue that the government faces as well, to support things.
At the same time, what benefit is it really for WestJet if over a few jobs—really, this is what it's about at the end of the day—we lose air traffic controllers and those people find jobs or quit the industry and don't come back? Aren't you worried about the loss of those skilled people, not only in those smaller regions but across Canada?
Mr. Gibbons, your company, WestJet, has said that your preference is not government bailouts. Rather, you want it to use technology in order to safely reopen the business.
The whole situation reminds me of an old expression. A wise man once said that if it moves, the government taxes it. If it keeps moving, the government regulates it. When it stops moving, the government subsidizes it.
It sounds like the government is, through its mismanagement of the COVID issue, grinding WestJet's business to a halt and then saying that the solution is to bail out the damage that the government itself caused.
Can you tell me whether there are other countries where they have successfully deployed technology to allow the safe reopening of the airline business without the enormous cost we have witnessed here in Canada?
:
Thank you very much for your question, Mr. Poilievre. It's great to see you.
I have a few comments on this. You are right. A safe restart is our priority. Wage supports are our priority. Our priority is not additional debt or loans at this time. That was the subject of the letter all the committee members received from our CEO before Christmas, so we have been pretty clear about that. Then again, I need to repeat that our negotiations are under NDA.
With respect to who has unlocked this equation, we have a policy answer here at home in Alberta. In Alberta, the Public Health Agency of Canada and Dr. Hinshaw worked on a pilot that reduced quarantine and effectively tested. It was a very innovative project, and it was specifically designed, Mr. Poilievre, to answer the question we face today in Canada, which is how we safely restart.
Dr. Hinshaw has given great testimony about how that pilot actually caught the variant and helped limit the spread of the variant. So, when we look at the policy answers, we think the application of that pilot as a national policy for May 1 is probably the most logical because it—
:
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for being here to answer questions today.
I'm not an epidemiologist and I'm not a doctor, but I've spoken to several epidemiologists and doctors with regard to this pandemic, and it is clear that, even if you take a test one day and it comes back negative, it doesn't mean that the virus is not in your system and that it won't show up a bit later. I definitely see a danger in allowing people to go home, getting that negative test, and then releasing them from quarantine.
That being said, the government has done its best to make sure that Canadians stay safe, and the government has prioritized that above all else and has obviously tried to be a support for people who have lost their jobs and for companies that are laying off people or trying to stay afloat during this time.
I understand that airlines are probably the hardest-hit sector of industry in the Canadian economy right now. I hear that the government needs to step in and play a greater role in helping airlines, and I agree with that.
I heard Mr. Balducchi talk about other countries that are supporting airlines. I was wondering if you could give us some best practices of other countries, if you have that information on hand, so that we can possibly recommend that in the future.
With respect to support, that's a conversation and a current ongoing negotiation, but with respect to safe restart, I'm happy to send the committee information to follow up.
The best current example today would be the United Kingdom, which set clear metrics and a date for a safe reopening, and I don't think we should be shy about prioritizing it in that way.
We were really encouraged by the on January 29. He also said that WestJet and Air Canada are strong partners in limiting the spread of COVID, so safety has really been a shared priority, notwithstanding any difficult issues we have navigated with the government. We have been working well together to curb the spread, and we were really happy that the Prime Minister acknowledged that on January 29.
That is our time for today.
To the witnesses, thank you for being with us today. This has been incredibly helpful to us. Thank you for your frank testimony.
[Translation]
I am a proud Quebecker and a proud Canadian, and the aerospace sector is very important to us.
[English]
This will help us immensely in our study. Again, thank you so much for being with us today.
To everyone in the room who allows us to do what we're doing—that would be our interpreters, our IT crew, our analysts and our clerk—thank you so much for what you are doing so that we can continue to do the job that we are doing.
With that, have a great afternoon.
This meeting is adjourned.