:
I call the meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.
I'll outline a few rules to follow.
Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either “Floor”, “English” or “French”. When you intervene, please make sure that your language channel is set to the language you wish to speak, not “Floor”. This is very important. It will reduce the number of times we need to stop because the interpretation is inaudible for our participants. It will maximize the time we spend exchanging with each other.
Witnesses, could you let us know with a nod or a wave of your hand that you understand how this all works?
Great. It will work fine.
Also, before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you're ready to speak, click on the microphone icon to activate your mike.
[Translation]
Finally, make sure that your microphone is muted when you are not talking.
We are now ready to begin. I want to welcome our witnesses, especially the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Marco Mendicino.
Welcome, Minister. We are very glad that you are taking the time to appear before our committee.
[English]
Mr. Minister, without further ado, we'll give you seven minutes to give us an opening statement on whatever the topic is. Today we're interested in temporary foreign workers, but also human resources on farms in general.
Go ahead, Mr. Minister. The floor is yours for seven minutes. Thank you.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to the members of the committee, good afternoon.
Thank you for the opportunity to offer these remarks and to answer your questions about the significant contributions of temporary foreign workers on our farms, at our processing plants, and at all points in Canada's food supply chain. This often-overlooked group of migrant workers has long served to ensure that Canadians may continue to enjoy food that is safe, healthy and affordable. That remains especially true today as we continue to confront COVID-19. Indeed, the work we are doing at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has been a vital lifeline to our food security, health care system and economy as we continue to effectively manage this global pandemic and flatten the curve.
Before I go any further, I first want to express our ongoing gratitude to health care workers, as well as Canadian farmers, food business leaders and workers, both domestic and from abroad, for everything you are doing to keep us healthy and to preserve access to high-quality food at our grocery stores and kitchen tables. We say thank you.
Following the outbreak, my department has played a critically important role in the Government of Canada's response to COVID-19. Today I want to highlight the special measures we have put in place to support temporary foreign workers, farmers and industry leaders to sustain Canada's food security.
Our work in this area is done in close collaboration with federal branches, which are led by my ministerial colleagues at Agriculture and Agri-Food, at Employment and Social Development Canada and at Fisheries and Oceans.
To help contain the spread of COVID-19, the federal government introduced travel restrictions at the border, with targeted exemptions for essential travel, which includes temporary foreign workers. IRCC is principally responsible for the issuance of work permits to temporary foreign workers and the supporting regulatory framework, which is under my purview through the immigration and refugee protection regulations.
[Translation]
Since the beginning of the crisis, the government has prioritized work permit processing for critical occupations, including those in the agriculture and agrifood sectors.
To safeguard the continuity of trade, commerce, health and food security for all Canadians, we have implemented an exemption to our travel restrictions to allow these workers to enter Canada, so that our farms and food processing facilities can continue to provide for Canadians.
Since April, nearly 22,000 temporary foreign workers have arrived in Canada on charter flights to work in our agriculture and food industry.
While we are facilitating the entry of temporary workers into Canada, further supports are required once they arrive, and the government has made progress there, as well.
On April 13, Agriculture and Agri-food Canada announced $50 million to help all food production and processing employers put in place the measures necessary to follow the mandatory 14-day quarantine, required of all workers arriving from abroad.
[English]
We're also making better use of the workers who are already here. We've introduced additional strategies to address status restoration and to reduce timelines for documentation.
On May 12, my department announced a new public policy that cuts the time that it takes for temporary foreign workers to start a new job from 10 weeks or more down to 10 days or less. This will allow temporary workers who are already in Canada with an employer-specific work permit to quickly change jobs when they find a new one. It's a win-win situation.
Our government is working very closely with employers of temporary foreign workers to ensure that the 14-day quarantine period is respected once workers arrive in Canada and that appropriate accommodations and provisions are made available to allow workers to do their important work in planting and seeding.
To help enforce these new requirements across the board, a package of regulations came into force on April 20. Employers have a responsibility for the health of their workers as well as to public health generally. Employer associations continue to work collaboratively with the government to figure out how they can help fulfill both of these objectives. In addition to the measures we're taking in response to the immediate effects of COVID-19, we continue to plan for the future.
Immigration is an enduring value that I believe in and that I trust Canadians believe in too, and we will see that for a long time after COVID-19 is behind us. Just last week, IRCC opened applications under the agri-food pilot program. Over the last several years, industries such as meat processing, mushroom and greenhouse production, and livestock raising have experienced ongoing challenges in finding and keeping employees. The agri-food pilot aims to attract and retain workers in these industries by providing them with an opportunity to become permanent residents. As we work to reinvigorate our economy after the pandemic, these workers will play an important part in getting Canada back to business.
This is a three-year pilot that will test an approach to help employers in these areas fill ongoing labour needs for full-time, year-round work. It will provide a pathway to permanent residency for many temporary foreign workers already in Canada. A total of 2,750 applications will be accepted annually throughout the pilot, which applies primarily to people who are already here.
The success of our Canadian farmers and food processors depends on their ability to recruit and retain the workforce that they need. This pilot will help to ensure that farmers and processors have the much-needed skills, experience and labour so we can continue to strengthen Canada's food security, grow our economy and improve our living standards for all of Canada.
Mr. Chair, temporary foreign workers are of vital importance to our food security and our economy. They are critical to the success of our farms and our hospitals, and this is why we have made the exceptions to the travel restrictions and why we continue to work with our partners provincially and in the sector with farmers, doctors and others to ensure everyone has the support they need.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members. I'm now happy to take your questions.
:
Thank you very much, Minister, for your opening statement.
Before I go any further, I just wanted to also mention the personnel from the immigration department. We have Marian Campbell Jarvis, assistant deputy minister, strategic and program policy; Louis Dumas, acting associate assistant deputy minister, operations; and Matt de Vlieger, director general, immigration.
From the Department of Employment and Social Development, we also have Jonathan Wallace, director general, temporary foreign worker program.
Welcome to all of you. You will remain for the second hour, I understand, to answer further questions.
With that, we shall commence our question round. We'll start with Ms. Lianne Rood, for up to six minutes. Go ahead.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for appearing before us today.
Minister, I've heard from many farmers in my riding. They're having difficulties with some of the audits that are being done. A farmer's greatest fear right now is not the weather; a fruit and vegetable farmer's greatest fear right now is an audit by the integrity branch.
I have heard some examples from different farmers, one being a phone call at 7:45 in the morning telling her she had to talk to this auditor right then, and if she didn't, then she could fail her audit. An hour and a half was spent on the phone, and numerous photos and videos.... Of course, we want to make sure that the quarantine is safe and is following the health guidelines.
I have another example of a farmer, a pregnant woman, who was asked to go into a quarantine bunkhouse with quarantined people in there to carry out the audit and provide photos and videos to the auditor that the social distancing was happening.
I'm just wondering, Minister, what the guidelines are for these auditors when they're carrying out these audits. Showing very little kindness and compassion in some of these instances is not going very far.
Can you give us an idea of how many audits are happening and what the direction is on them?
:
I'm going to try to break that down. I want to give you the most accurate data I can, and I'm certainly happy to continue this conversation after the committee appearance.
In round terms, currently approximately 30,000 agricultural workers have arrived in Canada for this year, which breaks down along the seasonal agricultural worker program, as well as the broader family of workers who are providing support to our farms.
Under the seasonal agricultural worker program, we have approved permits for 18,000 temporary foreign workers, 15,000 of whom have already arrived and are starting the important work of planting and seeding. We know there are more coming.
This is work that not only I but my colleagues at Agriculture Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada, and Global Affairs Canada are continuing, to ensure we are facilitating the safe and orderly arrival of temporary foreign workers who are abroad. One of the ways my department is accelerating that process is by setting up a dedicated team to reduce the period of time and ensure that those approvals are coming within 10 days or less, and to ensure that the mandatory isolation periods are in place to keep farms and our food security safe.
:
I'm certainly familiar with both the proposal to look at ways of renewing visas for a two-year term as opposed to just one, as well as looking at ways to create additional flexibility around how fees are paid. I had a great call with a number of farmers and industry leaders earlier this week where we developed a bit on both of those subjects. Those discussions are ongoing.
In the short term, based on the numbers I just read into the record regarding our progress in April, as well as the progress we're making in May, we are seeing a significant number of temporary foreign workers arrive here in a timely, safe and orderly fashion, and that is because we stood up a dedicated team. We are fast-tracking approval.
Most importantly, and I think this gets to the gist of your question, we have introduced some additional work flexibility. If you're here and you're tied to a specific job or employer and you've lost that job because of COVID-19, you're now able to stay in Canada on implied status and take that new job prior to the official approval, just as a means of filling those labour gaps, which we know exist every year.
I thank you for that question.
Thank you to the minister for being in front of us today. I know he's no stranger to agriculture. If we go back about four or five years, I briefed him quickly on a milk protein issue, and he delivered flawlessly to our caucus at the time, so I want to thank him for that.
Here we are, five years later, discussing agriculture and the importance of temporary foreign workers.
Minister Mendicino, all MPs reached out to you at the beginning of this. I can't believe it has already been two months.
How important was it to get a proper solution regarding temporary foreign workers for Canada so that we can grow our food?
:
I'll begin by thanking my honourable colleague both for the compliments as well as for his work and advocacy when it comes to supporting our farmers. I know it's something he's very passionate about, as well as his dedication in the community.
He's quite right that at the outset, when we were examining ways we could limit the spread of COVID-19, we took a look at our borders and it quickly became clear that we needed to establish a lifeline for our temporary foreign workers, particularly those who come and work on our farms, are here year in and year out and have developed a close relationship with the farmers who employ them and with their co-workers and, as I've said before, have established a deep-rooted connection to Canada. We owe them a debt of gratitude, because without them, those labour shortages would continue to exist.
That was the principal rationale for creating a targeted exemptions regime that ensures they are able to arrive in Canada, but like everyone else, they have to abide by the 14-day isolation period. We have provided some additional support to farmers so that they have the resources they need to accommodate for physical distancing and isolation where necessary.
I could not agree more with the question.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I assure you that I am paying attention to my speaking time and should not go over.
I want to begin by acknowledging the witnesses, as well as the minister and Ms. Martinez Ferrada, and thanking them for joining us. I have actually been in frequent contact with Ms. Martinez Ferrada lately. I am very grateful to her for her cooperation, but that does not mean I would not have any criticisms or, I should say, constructive questions.
Minister, even before the government announced $1,500 in financial support per foreign worker during the quarantine, the Bloc Québécois was already thinking—unsurprisingly—that this should be publicly funded. Since it was not, however, you offered agricultural producers $1,500 in assistance per foreign worker, which was interpreted by everyone at the time as an automatic lump sum payment.
I want to point out to the committee that people from the agricultural community are the only ones who must pay their workers during the quarantine period. That cost is already being incurred, without taking into account the higher airfare, the fact that those workers arrived later than planned and various other factors.
Agricultural producers are currently telling me that they have forms to fill out and receipts to provide to prove their expenses, and that the $1,500 has now become a maximum of $1,500.
How can you explain that change? What is more, can you guarantee to producers that they will in fact receive $1,500 per foreign worker?
:
I am sorry to interrupt you, Minister, but we don't have a lot of time.
You understand that behind my question is a concern over imposing a bunch of forms and conditions.
I will tell you about a case I learned of this morning, related to a labour market impact assessment, or LMIA. It involves people whose work permit expired, who theoretically must leave the country, but they cannot do so. In addition, the employer wants to keep them. So applications for permit renewals were submitted very quickly, but the LMIA must be carried out at the same time. However, officials are refusing to renew the work permits under the pretext that the LMIA has not been completed.
I would like to know two things, but I have about five seconds left. Is there a way to loosen that process? Could the requirement for an LMIA be suspended during the current crisis—for instance, until October?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I may ask a couple of questions. Then I'll pass it over to Mr. Lehoux if he has a couple of others.
Minister, thank you for getting back to us when we had questions early on about this program. I understand that it was sketchy at the beginning as to whether we would be able to offer this labour force to our producers. I hope you understand now how critical the seasonal agricultural worker program and the temporary foreign worker program are to our food supply.
This is a bit off-topic, but I just want to put this on your radar to see if there's anything that we can do. We have a lot of agricultural producers in the southern part of many of our ridings that have American borders. I have ranchers who have cattle on the Alberta side as well as on the Montana side, and some who have grain. They are having a really difficult time going back and forth to check cattle, feed animals and those types of things.
I know this isn't necessarily an immigration thing. However, I have spoken with my counterparts in Montana, Idaho and Wyoming, and we all see agriculture as an essential service. They are having similar problems as they have that reciprocity. I'm wondering if it's on your radar or on the government's radar to address this issue, to have some sort of a permit or a process where agricultural producers who are an essential service can make that trip back and forth across the border.
:
Thank you. I knew that wasn't something you could answer, but I really wanted to put it on your radar as we are having a lot of difficulty with that right now. If there's some sort of program, permitting system or something that we could put in place so that they are not turned away at the border coming back or going south....
Now I'll go to a question that I'm sure you'll be able to answer. I know that you've put some programs in place for processing and the employees that.... I have Cargill in my riding. If that goes down, that's almost 40% of the processing capacity in Canada. It's reliant, certainly, on temporary foreign workers.
Have there been any discussions, Minister, with the unions that are employing some of these employees? I think there's an opportunity for us to have a discussion to address some of the misunderstandings with some of the programs, work safety and some of those things that are going on. Despite the programs that you're putting in place, the unions are really not allowing those workers to go back to work. There is a stop work order, a court injunction, for Cargill.
Have some of those discussions happened to re-educate or to educate the workforce, the unions, Cargill and JBS to get them all onside to ensure that employees go to work?
I have a couple of questions and I know the chair has a question, so I'll split a couple of minutes with him.
Thank you, Minister Mendicino, for appearing today. It's nice to see you.
I know that when I took office in 2016, the temporary foreign worker program, to say it politely, was not that great and we had a lot of issues to settle. In 2017 it got a little better, and in 2018 and 2019 there seemed to be a change around. In my community, the Bay of Quinte riding, we depend on the wineries having agricultural workers come to our community. It was smooth in 2018 and 2019, and 2020, fortunately, has been good for us so far. The office hasn't had to do a lot of streamlining or deal with a lot of complaints with the program this year, so we've been fortunate.
Can you tell me what you've done in the last four years to improve the program and why it's been better?
:
Mr. Ellis, it's good to see you. I recall with fondness my visit to your riding and our visit to CFB Trenton.
With regard to the progress that we've made with the temporary foreign worker program, it's certainly not the product only of my time in this portfolio. This is the value of having a government that believes in leveraging the skills and experience of workers who are coming from abroad to help shore up the food supply chain, who are truly here to help us keep affordable food—healthy and safe food—on the plates of Canadians.
The way in which we have seen progress is by investing in this program and standing up teams to ensure that we are fast-tracking approvals of the permits, particularly now during COVID-19, by introducing a number of standards in place to protect the workers' health and safety while they're here and, as I've pointed out, by creating a way they can establish a permanent connection to Canada through the agri-food pilot.
These are all important initiatives that are the product of our government, and this work will continue and will position us to recover very strongly after we're on the other side of this curve with COVID-19.
:
Thank you. I have more of a statement.
Being the only MP from New Brunswick and also being a producer, I don't have temporary foreign workers. As most of you may know, New Brunswick is the only province in Canada that has not allowed temporary foreign workers to come in. Today the premier has said that's starting next Friday, but as you can imagine, there is another 14 days after next Friday.
There's already been some damage. I spoke to producers as late as yesterday. For example, there's a disconnect between the farming community and the general public. They think that anybody off the street can walk in and have the skills that are needed on a farm. These are highly skilled workers whom you can absolutely not replace overnight. One farmer was telling me he's hired two. One came in, he got him on the tractor and he ripped the side of the service truck with the mower.
I want to highlight the need to try to connect more with the general public that these are highly skilled workers. We definitely need them. Some of the farmers experienced some crop loss. Some never seeded. I wanted to highlight that.
I don't know, Mr. Minister, if you want to comment on that. It's affected our producers. It's a disadvantage to all the rest of Canada. Thank you.
Thank you to our witnesses for their participation today in the committee.
I want to start by giving a little bit of context. In my riding of Kings—Hants, we have an important agricultural sector. It's the underpinning of the local economy. Really, the minister alluded to it but perhaps I'll ask you, Louis. As I understand it, you're the director of operations within the department. From my understanding, we as a government have basically put most barriers or any barriers at all out of the way, but in terms of bringing the workers in, we are seeing challenges in some of the countries of origin where these workers are coming from.
Can you explain some of the challenges in countries such as Mexico, Guatemala and others that you're seeing in terms of the actual logistics of just getting these workers into the country?
:
Thank you for that interesting question.
Indeed, there are some major impediments in certain countries. In Mexico, for example, where we have a big processing centre for Central America and South America, just the fact that we have to deal with the ministry of labour in Mexico, which is facing its own challenges—working with reduced staff, for example—has been quite demanding on our teams. I have to salute our teams for the efforts they've made to find resolutions in that relationship.
Also, the minister has spoken a bit about the visitor application centres, which are a crucial part of the equation when you work overseas. They receive applications. Because the visitor application centres, or VACs, as we call them, have been closed for a number of weeks now, it has been a real challenge to process them. Nonetheless, we've been able to move a high number of people from Mexico and Guatemala to Canada. It has been at the cost of great efforts, but required, knowing full well the reality here in Canada.
:
I appreciate that insight.
I know, in speaking with my farmers locally and as you've alluded, that we've tried to move mountains, at least domestically. Sometimes that's just the nature of a global pandemic. Ms. Rood mentioned that in the seasonal agricultural worker program, SAWP, we've received only 78% of the workers. I think those numbers are pretty strong, all things considered.
It was discussed in the committee, but for the benefit of those who might be watching and those tuning in to our committee proceedings, perhaps Mr. Dumas or Ms. Jarvis can clarify that it's not the Government of Canada that's bringing these workers here, but organizations such as F.A.R.M.S. Canada, or FERME in Quebec, and others that work with industry to get the workers here.
Sometimes it says, “we as a government”, but really this is private industry bringing them in. We're just creating the channels to make sure that they're processed. Is that correct?
:
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I may split my time, but thank you very much.
I just want to go back to this. We've had some discussion about the accurate numbers out there, and maybe the officials could give us some better insight.
The minister was saying that we are around 86% of the workers who were expected to be here in April, but when we were talking with our stakeholders, the comments we were getting was that the government is using statistics that do not reflect the actual situation on the ground.
For example, I think the minister mentioned today that, in the month of April, Canada received about 10,000 workers compared with 13,000 in the year previously. At first glance, I think that would look fairly good, given this current landscape and the situation we're facing. However, what we're hearing from our stakeholders—and certainly from producers on the ground—is that they're not getting those numbers. It's actually quite a bit lower, and the numbers the government is using include the workers who should have come or who were in the process of coming but haven't arrived.
When we look at what I mentioned with Ontario being at a much higher number than Quebec at 50% and B.C. at only 54%, I'm wondering if the officials could give us the accurate numbers for the workers who have arrived in Canada. What is the outlook for May and June?
There's not a lot of excitement to answer that question.
:
Mr. Chair, if I may, I'm going to answer the first part of the member's question, and I'll ask my colleagues to talk about future progress in this area.
With respect to paperwork, we have indeed made great efforts to compress the administrative process. We've really tried to streamline it. I will give a few examples. On the ground, overseas, we have had close discussions with the staff of the departments of labour and the visa application centres. So it was a matter of having a good synergy. We also worked very closely with our colleagues at Global Affairs Canada.
Earlier, I mentioned biometrics. With the help of the Canada Border Services Agency, we have been able to obtain biometric data at ports of entry. It is very helpful to us. We have really focused on the demands of agricultural workers so that they are given priority. We are doing that not only abroad but also in Canada. We have created specialized teams. We have also brought some of our officers who were abroad back to Canada for medical or family reasons. They're now working in Ottawa on these files.
In Canada, we have asked that all applications from agricultural workers be fast-tracked. As you mentioned, people picking strawberries on Île d'Orléans could pick apples in Montérégie in the fall, for example. So there needs to be a great deal of flexibility in the system in order to be able to meet the needs.
I'm going to ask my colleagues to continue on the topic of future progress.
:
Thank you for the question.
The question was about the new policy that was announced on May 12, last week.
[English]
The question was about whether this a temporary measure. It is a temporary measure. It's a public policy that waives some of the current requirements under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
Under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, for any work permit, there has to be an application before you can get on to a new work permit. What this new policy does is that it allows somebody, if they've found a new job, have that job offer and it's backed up by a labour market impact assessment.... Because of the context we're in with COVID, because of the number of people impacted who might be laid off, might have had trouble finding new employment, if they've secured new employment, we're going to facilitate their getting into work as quickly as possible, so within 10 days. That's a temporary measure.
The act does want the full application processing to happen. That's what we'd be looking at for the longer term, making sure that all of those application steps happen.
:
Thank you. That wraps up our panel for today.
I want to thank, from Citizenship and Immigration, Marian Campbell Jarvis, Louis Dumas and Matt de Vlieger. I also want to thank Jonathan Wallace for taking the time to be with us today.
With that, we will terminate the question round and I'll ask the members to stay on for a bit of business before the meeting next week.
I thank the panel, and we'll start our business section.
We had a conversation to try to guide us as to how we're going to have our coming meetings and how everything is going to unfold. Sticking with the themes, we have chicken and eggs, grains and the meat processing.
Maybe I'll let somebody who was on the call today —
:
I do not know about the French teacher, but I will say that the Bloc Québécois member is very proud. You did that very well, Mr. Blois.
We agreed to the motion informally, and there are no surprises. I was wondering if we could add a point to the motion.
May we add that we make it a principle to finish, as far as possible, the rounds of questions with our guests?
I'm referring to the last two rounds of questioning with the minister, which did not take place.
Can we include this? That way, the committee would have a general principle, to the extent possible. This will not become military, but it may make life easier for us in the future.