AGRI Committee Meeting
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37th PARLIAMENT, 3rd SESSION
Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food
EVIDENCE
CONTENTS
Thursday, February 12, 2004
| Á | 1100 |
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The Clerk of the Committee(Ms. Bibiane Ouellette) |
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Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.) |
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The Clerk |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Leon Benoit (Lakeland, CPC) |
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The Clerk |
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The Clerk |
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Mr. Nick Discepola (Vaudreuil—Soulanges, Lib.) |
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The Clerk |
| Á | 1105 |
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The Clerk |
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The Chair (Mr. Paul Steckle (Huron—Bruce, Lib.)) |
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Hon. Wayne Easter |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Wayne Easter |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Wayne Easter |
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The Chair |
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Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Hon. David Kilgour (Edmonton Southeast, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Wayne Easter |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Larry McCormick (Hastings—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gilbert Barrette (Témiscamingue, Lib.) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC) |
| Á | 1110 |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ) |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, CPC) |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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The Chair |
| Á | 1115 |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Hon. David Kilgour |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gerry Ritz |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gerry Ritz |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gerry Ritz |
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The Chair |
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Mr. Gerry Ritz |
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The Chair |
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The Chair |
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Hon. Wayne Easter |
| Á | 1120 |
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Hon. David Kilgour |
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The Chair |
CANADA
Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food |
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EVIDENCE
Thursday, February 12, 2004
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Á 
(1100)
[Translation]
The Clerk of the Committee(Ms. Bibiane Ouellette): Honourable members, I see a quorum.
In accordance with Standing Order 106(1), the first item of business is the election of the Chair. I am ready to entertain motions to that effect.
[English]
Mr. Easter.
Hon. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Chair.
I move that Paul Steckle be elected as chair of this committee.
[Translation]
The Clerk: Are there any other nominations?
[English]
The nominations are closed.
Is there agreement that Mr. Steckle be elected as chair?
(Motion agreed to)
The Clerk: We should move now to the election of the vice-chairs.
Mr. Leon Benoit (Lakeland, CPC): I would move that Gerry Ritz be vice-chair.
The Clerk: Are there any other nominations?
The nominations are closed. Does everyone agree that the motion be adopted?
(Motion agreed to)
[Translation]
The Clerk: I'm ready to receive a motion for the vice-chair for the government.
Mr. Nick Discepola (Vaudreuil—Soulanges, Lib.): I move that Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur be Vice-Chair of this committee.
[English]
The Clerk: Are there any other nominations?
The nominations are closed.
(Motion agreed to)
Á (1105)
The Clerk: I declare Mrs. Ur Vice-Chair of the committee.
I would invite Mr. Steckle to take the chair.
The Chair (Mr. Paul Steckle (Huron—Bruce, Lib.)): Thank you very much, members of this committee. It's been a pleasure to have served you for a number of months. We've had elections periodically since I've become chair. I don't know what kind of indication that is, but your confidence is recognized and duly appreciated this morning, so thank you very much.
To my vice-chairs, Rose-Marie and Gerry, thank you very much for the cooperation I've been given as chair, and to the rest of the committee members, because I think this committee has functioned very well in some very stressful times. We've had some very difficult issues over the last eight or nine months.
Moving into the business of the meeting this morning, we have to deal with item 3, as an organization meeting, first the establishment of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, that is, the steering committee. May I have a motion on that? I see I have a mover, Mr. Kilgour, and we have Ms. Skelton as the seconder. Do we have concurrence?
Hon. Wayne Easter: I want to discuss that.
The Chair: Yes.
Hon. Wayne Easter: Mr. Chair, the motion says the chair, the two vice-chairs, and the parliamentary secretary. There are two parliamentary secretaries, are there not? So which one?
The Chair: Oh, because of the new structure of Parliament.
Hon. Wayne Easter: Mark Eyking is a parliamentary secretary and Georges Farrah is a parliamentary secretary.
The Chair: Yes, Madam Ur.
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.): If it makes a difference, Mr. Eyking is for agriculture and Georges is with rural affairs. That is a point of information only.
The Chair: What about the opposition? We have two parliamentary secretaries.
Mr. Kilgour.
Hon. David Kilgour (Edmonton Southeast, Lib.): In the spirit of fighting the deficit, why don't we have none of the parliamentary secretaries on the steering committee?
The Chair: I'm at the pleasure of this committee, if that's the wish. Is there any further discussion, first of all? I'm not sure if this is parliamentary. If this is being done in other committees, then there's precedent for it.
Hon. Wayne Easter: I think you would have to move a motion, Mr. Chair, to remove “Parliamentary Secretary” from the motion.
The Chair: And that we would seek.
Do we have a motion? I think Mr. Kilgour has given us that indication. Do we have a seconder for that? Mr. Proctor.
In that case, is there any further discussion on that motion?
Mr. McCormick.
Mr. Larry McCormick (Hastings—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, Lib.): Mr. Chair, our cooperation in this committee has been great in the last several years. We've had crises before even this latest crisis, and we certainly have one today with grain and commodity prices. But I think there have been times when it might have been worthwhile for the PS to be at the steering committee. I'm not going to vote that we have to do that, but I think sometimes, in a cooperative way, it might have been useful. I just think we should consider that.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
The Chair: Thank you.
Mr. Barrette.
[Translation]
Mr. Gilbert Barrette (Témiscamingue, Lib.): I agree. I think that it would be useful to have one of the two parliamentary secretaries. I'm told that there are two but I know that Georges Farrah is parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Agriculture.
[English]
I'd like to see him around the table to discuss the issues we'll have along the way.
The Chair: Mr. Ritz.
Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, CPC): Mr. Chair, if committees are masters of their own destiny, as we all think we are, we can decide who's going to sit on what committee or subcommittee and so on. At our discretion, as the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, we could certainly invite the parliamentary secretary any time we wanted. We don't necessarily have to have him listed as a member of the committee. So I agree with the motion put forward.
Á (1110)
The Chair: All right, let's move into the question. The motion is to remove the parliamentary secretary as part of the subcommittee, but they can be invited. We're the masters, as someone has said.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: So the parliamentary secretary will not be included in the meetings unless requested.
Now we've had that change to the motion, we can have the motion as amended.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
The Chair: As the next item of business we have to look at the issue of receiving evidence without quorum. The motion is as follows:
| That the Chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive and publish evidence when a quorum is not present provided that the Chair and at least five members are present, including one member of the opposition, and provided that if no member of the opposition is present 10 minutes after the designated start of the meeting, the meeting may proceed. |
These are procedures that have been normalized for this committee, and perhaps others.
Mr. Plamondon.
[Translation]
Mr. Louis Plamondon (Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, BQ): I agree on this procedure but I would like it to be observed differently than it has been during the last few months, in the following way. We were called to three meetings last summer and on those three occasions, it was thanks to the opposition that we had a quorum. At one of these meetings, only one representative of the Liberal Party was in attendance. Let me say that I will never again facilitate the process of achieving quorum. In such cases, I will withdraw from the committee. It is the job of the governing party to make sure we have a quorum. It is not the opposition's job to do so. I think the opposition will act accordingly at the next meetings. We might be getting ready for elections, but this applies to all parties. This does not justify the absence of the Liberal members throughout the summer when the committee met in emergency sessions.
[English]
The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Plamondon.
I trust the Liberal members on the government side were listening. That's an admonition that is best coming from you, and I appreciate those words, because I think we should be encouraged by them. We take that very seriously.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next motion concerns the Library of Parliament:
| That the Committee retain the services of one or more analysts from the Library of Parliament, as needed, to assist the Committee in its work, at the discretion of the Chair. |
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: The next is on allocation of time:
| That witnesses be given 10 minutes to make their opening statement. That during the questioning of witnesses the time allocated to each questioner be as follows: On the first round of questioning, seven minutes to a representative of each party in the following order: Conservative Party of Canada, Bloc Québécois, Liberal, and NDP. On the following rounds of questioning, five minutes per party alternating between the government and opposition parties; and that the allocation of time for questioning be applied for all witnesses, including Ministers. |
This is a procedure we've used, and it's worked very well. At the discretion and pleasure of the chair, from time to time, because of time constraints, we sometimes had to make changes, but I think this is the principle we tried to follow.
Mr. Borotsik.
Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, CPC): I don't have any trouble with the time. However, lumping the minister in there with all the other types of witnesses is a problem. We have said at this committee on numerous occasions that we would like to have the minister appear more often than perhaps he has in the past. If we're looking at simply a matter of allocating 10 minutes to a minister for his presentation, I think that should be deleted from here. I think the minister certainly should have more available than that.
The Chair: So you're suggesting that we take the minister out.
Mr. Rick Borotsik: Absolutely. Let's have a little flexibility.
The Chair: Is there consensus that we go along with that? So we have that amended. Take the minister out of there. I think it goes without saying that this is likely what would apply in any event. We would agree to that. Let's take it out.
(Amendment agreed to)
Á (1115)
The Chair: Let's move, then, to the main motion.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
The Chair:
We move to in camera transcripts:
| That one copy of the transcript of all in camera meetings be kept in the Committee Clerk's office for consultation by members of the Committee and can be destroyed at the end of each session of Parliament. |
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair:
On Order in Council appointment:
| That, pursuant to Standing Order 111(4), whenever an Order in Council for appointment or a certificate of nomination for appointment is referred to the Committee, the Clerk shall obtain and circulate to each member of the Committee a copy of the curriculum vitae of each appointee or nominee. |
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair:
On distribution of documents:
| That the Clerk of the Committee be authorized to distribute documents to the members of the Committee only when they are available in both official languages. |
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair:
Reimbursement of witnesses' expenses:
| That if requested, reasonable travel, accommodation and living expenses be reimbursed to witnesses, not exceeding two representatives per organization; and that in exceptional circumstances, payment for more representatives be at the discretion of the Chair. |
Mr. Kilgour.
Hon. David Kilgour: Mr. Chair, who decides what's reasonable?
The Chair: The law of averages, I think, has sort of dictated what would be reasonable. We looked at what other committees are doing. Furthermore, these have to be approved before a committee before they can be adhered to. So there is a screening process here, and there have to be grounds given for people to appear. The chair has to go and argue those points before the money is allocated in any event.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair:
We move on to working meals:
| That the Committee authorize the Chair, from time to time, as the need arises, to take, in conjunction with the Clerk of the Committee, the appropriate measures to provide meals for the Committee and its Subcommittees, for working purposes, and that the cost of these meals be charged to the budget of the Committee. |
This happens from time to time. We are people, and we all require our normal nourishment.
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair:
On 48 hours notice:
| That unless there is unanimous consent of the members of the Committee, 48 hours notice must be given to members of the Committee before any new item of business is considered by the Committee, and that the motion be filed with the Clerk of the Committee and be circulated to all members in both official languages. Upon receipt of the notice, the Clerk will put the motion on the agenda of the Committee's next meeting. |
(Motion agreed to)
The Chair: Okay, this brings us now to the end of--
Yes.
Mr. Gerry Ritz: Mr. Chair, I'd like to add two other points to that list if I could.
The first is that whenever the main estimates or the subs are tabled in the House, the committee invite the minister and any relevant senior officials of the department to appear at a televised meeting of the committee.
The second is that whenever a chapter of a report of the Auditor General refers to a subject under the mandate of the committee, the committee invite the Office of the Auditor General and any relevant senior officials of a department to appear at a televised meeting of the committee.
The Chair: I only see one problem with that. If there's an urgent need for those people to be called before the committee and the committee rooms with cameras are already booked, what do we do then?
Mr. Gerry Ritz: Work it into the rotation, just so we don't overlook those. We do tend to push the main estimates aside.
The Chair: “Whenever possible” could be added.
Mr. Gerry Ritz: Fine. How about “at the earliest convenience”?
The Chair: The clerk suggests “whenever possible”, because that's--
Mr. Gerry Ritz: I would prefer “at the earliest convenience”, rather than “whenever possible”. That's kind of grey.
The Chair: Is there other discussion on this matter? I understand where Mr. Ritz is coming from. It is my hope, of course, as your chair, to lead us into meetings where cameras are the medium through which we get our message to the public. So we'll see a number of meetings like that, trust me.
Is there any other discussion on that? If not, we have the motions as amended.
(Motions agreed to)
The Chair: This brings us to the end, unless there are other matters of business.
Mr. Easter.
Hon. Wayne Easter: Mr. Chair, I know there is 48 hours notice of motions, and I agree with that, but so that we can roll next week as quickly as possible, I do think we have to do some work on the BSE issue. Whether it's going to Washington and meeting with members of Congress, various authorities down there, or whatever, we absolutely have to put some pressure on as a committee to get the border open, and in fact to ensure that our own government is applying exactly the same standards that the Americans are applying to us in respect of mad cow. It's beyond the time for being diplomatic in this crisis, it's time to play hardball with the Americans. So I would give notice of a motion, if that's possible, or maybe use some other alternative for bringing the BSE issue forward.
Á (1120)
Hon. David Kilgour: Would it be possible to go around the table and hear what everyone would like to see as priorities?
The Chair: I should just point out that we will be continuing this meeting, with your approval, to look at future business, but we will do that in camera, because I think there are matters we need to discuss that at this time will be better dealt with in camera than in a public meeting. So I would ask for your indulgence in withholding that matter until we go in camera. You have put forward the motion and the 48 hours notice has been given. We will deal with that among matters that may come before the committee in the next half hour.
We don't need 48 hours notice, the clerk advises me, on a matter of future business.
We will, then, adjourn this meeting.
[Proceedings continue in camera]