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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 59

Thursday, November 26, 2009

The Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities met at 3:30 p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Dean Allison, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Dean Allison, Josée Beaudin, Dona Cadman, Ron Cannan, Raymonde Folco, Ed Komarnicki, Yves Lessard, Ben Lobb, Tony Martin, Hon. Maria Minna, Michael John Savage and Maurice Vellacott.

Acting Members present: Lee Richardson for Ron Cannan.

In attendance: Library of Parliament: Hilary Jensen, Analyst ; André Léonard, Analyst . House of Commons: Wayne Cole, Legislative Clerk ; Lucie Tardif-Carpentier, Legislative Clerk.

Witnesses: Department of Human Resources and Skills Development: Luc Taillon, Chief Actuary; Frank Vermaeten, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Skills and Employment Branch; Louis Beauséjour, Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch; Nathalie Déziel, Counsel, Legal Services, Skills and Employment Branch. Service Canada: Liliane Binette, Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations Branch.

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to Committee business.

It was agreed, — That the proposed budget in the amount of $21,580, for the Committee’s travel to Vancouver, Bristish Columbia, Whitehorse, Yukon, Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Edmonton, Alberta, and Winnipeg, Manitoba, related to the study of the federal contribution to reducing poverty in Canada, be adopted.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference of Thursday, November 5, 2009, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

Frank Vermaeten made a statement and, with Luc Taillon and Louis Beauséjour, answered questions.

The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

The Chair called Clause 2.

Clause 2 carried on division.

Clause 3 carried on division.

On Clause 4,

Ed Komarnicki moved, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing lines 18 to 23 on page 2 with the following:

“initial claims for benefits under this Act by an individual if the individual who accumulated the violation qualified for benefits in each of those two initial claims, taking into account subsection (1) or (2), subparagraph 152.07(1)(d)(ii) or regulations made under Part VIII, as the case may be.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ed Komarnicki and it was agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, carried on division.

Clause 5 carried.

Clause 6 carried.

Clause 7 carried.

Clause 8 carried.

Clause 9 carried.

On Clause 10,

Yves Lessard moved, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 10, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 7 the following:

“(2.1) For the purposes of this section, the system for reducing the premiums under Part VII.1 is as follows:

A – (A x B)

where:

A is the premium rate entitling an individual to all special benefits, and

B is the percentage equivalent to the ratio of the cost of the special benefits of the employment insurance system already offered under an agreement with a province to the cost of all special benefits.”

Debate arose thereon.

At 5:27 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 5:39 p.m., the sitting resumed.

The Committee resumed consideration of the amendment of Yves Lessard, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 10, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 7 the following:

“(2.1) For the purposes of this section, the system for reducing the premiums under Part VII.1 is as follows:

A – (A x B)

where:

A is the premium rate entitling an individual to all special benefits, and

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Yves Lessard and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Josée Beaudin, Raymonde Folco, Yves Lessard, Tony Martin — 4; NAYS: Dona Cadman, Ed Komarnicki, Ben Lobb, Lee Richardson, Maurice Vellacott — 5.

Clause 10 carried on division.

On Clause 11,

Ed Komarnicki moved, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 11, be amended by

(a) replacing line 4 on page 7 with the following:

“11. Section 97 of the Act is replaced by the following:”

(b) replacing line 12 on page 7 with the following:

“duties of the Minister under this Part and Part VII.1.

(2) An officer or employee employed in connection with the administration of this Part, section 5, subsection 152.01(2) or (3) or any of sections 152.21 to 152.3 or any regulations made under section 5, 55, 152.26 or 152.28, if designated by the Minister for the purpose, may, in the course of their employment, administer oaths and take and receive affidavits, declarations and solemn affirmations for the purposes of or incidental to the administration or enforcement of this Act or the regulations, and every officer or employee so designated has for those purposes all the powers of a commissioner for administering oaths or taking affidavits.”

Debate arose thereon.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, — That the amendment be amended, in the English version only, by deleting the words “by the following:” from the line “11. Section 97 of the Act is replaced by the following:”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Ed Komarnicki, as amended, and it was agreed to on division.

Clause 11, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 12 to 15 inclusive carried on division severally.

On Clause 16,

Tony Martin moved, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by adding after line 22 on page 13 the following:

“(5) A self-employed person is not entitled to benefits under subsection (1) if,

(a) over a period of more than one year, more than 95% of that person’s income has derived from a single client; and

(b) in the opinion of the Commission, the relationship with the client is tantamount to an employer-employee relationship.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it was beyond the scope of the Bill, as provided on page 766 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing lines 19 to 23 on page 23 with the following:

“Act if the individual who accumulated the violation qualified for benefits in each of those two initial claims, taking into account subsection 7.1(1) or (2), subparagraph (1)(d)(ii) or regulations made under Part VIII, as the case may be.”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by

(a) replacing line 24 on page 23 with the following:

“152.08 (1) The qualifying period of a self-”

(b) adding after line 27 on page 23 the following:

“(2) A self-employed person’s self-employed earnings during a qualifying period may not be taken into account in respect of more than one initial claim for benefits.”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing line 20 on page 38 with the following:

“rate per year prescribed by regulation made under”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing line 31 on page 38 with the following:

“interest on the amount, at a rate per year prescribed”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing line 3 on page 40 with the following:

“make regulations, prescribing a rate for the purposes”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by adding after line 39 on page 42 the following:

“Delegation

152.311 The Minister of National Revenue may authorize an officer or a class of officers to exercise powers or perform duties of that Minister under this Part.”

On motion of Ed Komarnicki, it was agreed on division, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 23 on page 43 with the following:

“152.07(3)b), la détermination du nombre”

Tony Martin moved, — That Bill C-56, in Clause 16, be amended by replacing the heading “REVIEW OF THIS PART“ and lines 29 to 32 on page 43 with the following:

“PANEL AND REVIEW OF THIS PART

152.34 (1) The Minister shall appoint a panel of experts within six months of the day on which this Part comes into force to review the impact, administration and operation of this Part.

(2) Each year for a period of five years, the panel shall consult Canadians and report its findings to each House of Parliament with recommendations for improvements.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown, as provided on pages 767-768 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

Clause 16, as amended, carried on division.

Clauses 17 to 37 inclusive carried on division severally.

The Short Title carried on division.

The Title carried.

The Bill, as amended, carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Dona Cadman, Ed Komarnicki, Ben Lobb, Tony Martin, Maria Minna, Lee Richardson, Michel Savage, Maurice Vellacott — 8; NAYS: Josée Beaudin, Yves Lessard — 2.

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

ORDERED, — That Bill C-56, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House at report stage.

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of matters related to Committee business.

On motion of Michael John Savage, it was agreed, — That, an independent actuary of the choosing of the opposition, be invited to appear before the Committee, for one hour, before Christmas 2009 to give an independent analysis of the soundness, the rate setting, premium setting and cost estimates of Bill C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

At 5:58 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Georges Etoka
Clerk of the Committee

2010/02/02 9:56 a.m.