HEAL Committee Meeting
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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
Meeting No. 15
Tuesday, December 10, 2002
The Standing Committee on Health met at 9:25 a.m. this day, in Room 269, West Block, the Chair, Bonnie Brown, presiding.
Members of the Committee present: Bonnie Brown, Jeannot Castonguay, Brenda Chamberlain, The Hon. Hedy Fry, James Lunney, Réal Ménard, Rob Merrifield, Hélène Scherrer, Judy Sgro, Carol Skelton, Yolande Thibeault, Judy Wasylycia-Leis.
Acting Members present: Paddy Torsney for Carolyn Bennett, Yvon Charbonneau for Stan Dromisky, David Price for Stan Dromisky, Diane St-Jacques for Carolyn Bennett, Paddy Torsney for Stan Dromisky.
Other Member present: Paul Szabo.
In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Nancy Miller Chenier, Sonya Norris and Monique Hébert, Research Officers. From the Committees Directorate: Joann Garbig, Jeffrey LeBlanc, Legislative Clerks.
Witnesses: From the Department of Health: Francine Manseau, Senior Policy Analyst, Health Policy and Communications Branch, Special Projects Division; Caroline Weber, Director General, Policy Planning and Priorities Directorate. From the Department of Justice: Glenn Rivard, Senior Legal Counsel.
Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Wednesday, October 9, 2002, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-13, An Act respecting assisted human reproduction (See Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, November 19, 2002, Meeting No. 2).
The Committee resumed Clause-by-Clause consideration on Clause 26 of the Bill.
A point of order was raised and debate arose regarding the procedural admissibility of an amendment on Clause 18 moved by Rob Merrifield, which was negatived at the previous meeting, because it was not available in writing in both official languages.
Réal Ménard moved, -- That the following amendment of Rob Merrifield be reconsidered on the grounds of procedural admissibility:
-- That Bill C-13, in Clause 18, be amended by
a) replacing line 9 on page 12 with the following:
“conceived, but, subject to subsection (3.1), the identity of the donor - or”
b) adding after line 13 on page 12 the following new clause:
“(3.1) The Agency shall disclose on request the identity of a donor to a person conceived by means of an assisted reproduction procedure using that donor’s human reproductive material or in vitro embryo, or to their descendant, if the person or their descendant, as the case may be, is at least 18 years of age.”
By unanimous consent, it was agreed that the Chair’s ruling regarding the reconsideration of the amendment be allowed to stand until the next meeting.
On Clause 26,
Réal Ménard moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by replacing lines 1 and 2 on page 16 with the following:
“(2) The membership of the board of directors must reflect a range of”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by replacing line 2 on page 16 with the following:
“tors must be chosen for their wisdom and judgment, so far as possible, and reflect a range of”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by replacing lines 3 and 4 on page 16 with the following:
“backgrounds and disciplines that are relevant to the Agency’s objectives and that will enable them to best serve the interests of Canadians.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by replacing line 4 on page 16 with the following:
“Agency’s objectives. The membership shall always include at least one person nominated by the deputy ministers of the departments responsible for health in the provinces.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 5 NAYS: 7
Réal Ménard moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 4 on page 16 the following:
“(2.1) Each province shall be represented by a director.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 3 NAYS: 6
Judy Wasylycia-Leis moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 4 on page 16 the following:
“(2.1) The membership of the board of directors shall be appointed in such a manner as to maintain a minimum of 50 per cent representation by women.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:
YEAS: 8 NAYS:
2
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 7 on page 16 the following:
“(3.1) All members of the board of directors shall be subject to the same code of conduct and conflict of interest provisions as the President of the Agency.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 3 NAYS:
7
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by replacing line 18 on page 16 with the following:
“is eligible for one consecutive reappointment.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands.
YEAS: 3 NAYS:
7
Jeannot Castonguay moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 16 the following:
“(8) A person is not eligible to be a member of the board of directors if they hold a licence or are an applicant for a licence or a director, officer, shareholder or partner of a licensee or applicant for a licence.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.
Judy Wasylycia-Leis moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 24 on page 16 the following:
“(8) No member of the board of directors shall, directly or indirectly, as owner, shareholder, director, officer, partner or otherwise, have any pecuniary or proprietary interest in any business which operates in industries whose products or services are used in the reproductive technologies regulated or controlled by this Act.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment and the result of the recorded vote was announced:
YEAS
Brenda Chamberlain
James
Lunney
Rob
Merrifield
Carol
Skelton
Yolande
Thibeault
Judy
Wasylycia-Leis -- 6
NAYS
Jeannot Castonguay
Hedy Fry
David Price
Hélène Scherrer
Judy Sgro
Paddy Torsney -- 6
Whereupon, the Chair voted in the affirmative.
Accordingly, the amendment was adopted.
Clause 26, as amended, carried on division.
Clause 27 carried on division.
Clause 28 carried on division.
Clause 29 carried on division.
On Clause 30,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 30, be amended by replacing lines 15 to 19 on page 17 with the following:
“operational policies; and
(c) the approval of the Agency’s budget.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Clause 30 carried.
On new Clause 30.1,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 19 on page 17 the following new clause:
“30.1 The Auditor General shall evaluate the Agency’s performance and table a report in respect thereof annually in both Houses of Parliament.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Clause 31 carried.
On Clause 32,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 32, be amended by replacing lines 26 and 27 on page 17 with the following:
“the Agency's powers and duties to a committee of the board, including powers and duties”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was allowed to stand.
By unanimous consent, it was agreed that the following amendment be allowed to stand:
That Bill C-13, in Clause 32, be amended by replacing line 32 on page 17 with the following:
“its power to make a decision under subsection 40(2) or any of its powers or duties with respect to the”
By unanimous consent, Clause 32 was allowed to stand.
At 10:52 a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 11:09 a.m., the sitting resumed.
On Clause 33,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 33, be amended by adding after line 4 on page 18 the following:
“(4) In establishing advisory panels, the board shall ensure that the following groups are fully represented: the users of assisted human reproductive technologies and children born with the assistance of such technologies, people with disabilities, the scientific and medical communities, the faith communities, professional ethicists and representatives of research ethics boards, private sector providers of services and private research firms, taxpayers and their representatives, and delegates of the provincial and territorial governments.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 3 NAYS:
4
Clause 33 carried on division.
Clause 34 carried.
Clause 35 carried.
Clause 36 carried.
Clause 37 carried.
Clause 38 carried.
On Clause 39,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 39, be amended by adding after line 34 on page 19 the following:
“(4) The Agency shall be adequately funded under separate appropriations voted by Parliament.
(5) The Agency shall not be subject to the federal government's cost recovery policy.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Clause 39 carried.
On Clause 40,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 40, be amended by adding after line 40 on page 19 the following:
“(1.1) No licence shall be issued unless the application for the licence is accompanied by an approval from a reputable ethics board.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 40, be amended by replacing lines 4 and 5 on page 20 with the following:
“no other biological material can be used for the purpose of the proposed research with the promotion of healing therapies as its object.”
The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible, because the Committee had already decided against a similar amendment in Clause 10.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 40, be amended by replacing line 7 on page 20 with the following:
“considers sufficient, according to established research conventions, may be issued in respect”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 3 NAYS: 5
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 40, be amended by adding after line 25 on page 20 the following:
“(7) All documents and other materials filed in connection with an application for a licence and all documents produced by the Agency in connection with an application shall, on request, be made available to the public. All licensing hearings shall be held in public.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.
Yolande Thibeault moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 40, be amended by adding after line 25 on page 20 the following:
“(7) The Agency may not apply a policy of cost recovery to the issuance of licences.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted by a show of hands:
YEAS: 6 NAYS: 4
Clause 40, as amended, carried.
Clause 41 carried.
Clause 42 carried.
On Clause 43,
Jeannot Castonguay moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 43, be amended by
(a) replacing lines 1 to 5 on page 21 with the
following:
“(2) Subject to subsection (3), the Agency shall, on request, disclose the
information and observations provided under subsection (1) unless the
disclosure would, in the Agency's opinion, pose a risk to the health or safety
of any person.”
(b) replacing lines 13 and 14 with the following:
“not be disclosed except to an applicant or licensee who, in”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on division.
Clause 43, as amended, carried.
Clause 44 carried.
At 11:56 a.m., the sitting was suspended.
At 12:20 p.m., the sitting resumed.
Clause 45 carried on division.
Clause 46 carried on division.
Clause 47 carried on division.
Clause 48 carried on division.
Clause 49 carried on division.
Clause 50 carried on division.
Clause 51 carried on division.
Clause 52 carried on division.
Clause 53 carried on division.
On Clause 54,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 54, be amended
(a) by replacing line 10 on page 26 with the following:
“the donors, in the case of human reproduc-”
(b) by replacing line 17 on page 26 with the following:
“donors or responsible person.”
(c) by replacing line 20 on page 26 with the following:
“Agency may return the material to the donors”
The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible, because the Committee had already decided on this issue in Clause 3.
Clause 54 carried on division.
Clause 55 carried on division.
Clause 56 carried on division.
Clause 57 carried on division.
On Clause 58,
Réal Ménard moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 58, be amended by replacing line 13 on page 27 with the following:
“58. The Agency shall enter into agreements”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 1 NAYS: 9
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 58, be amended by replacing line 17 on page 27 with the following:
“enforcement of this Act. The Agency shall not enter into enforcement agreements with any non-governmental organization.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Clause 58 carried on division.
Clause 59 carried on division.
On new Clause 59.1,
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13 be amended by adding after line 23 on page 27 the following new clause:
“59.1 All equivalency and enforcement agreements are subject to the following safeguards:
(a) the Minister is accountable to Parliament for all equivalency and enforcement agreements;
(b) the public shall be actively consulted on draft agreements before they are finalized;
(c) all draft agreements, together with the comments made by the public, shall be tabled in both Houses of Parliament for comments and recommendations;
(d) the text of all final agreements shall be included in the public information registry established by this Act;
(e) all agreements shall be subject to termination or revocation upon reasonable written notice given by either party; and
(f) as a condition precedent to the signing of an agreement, a government that enters into an agreement with the federal government must agree to comply with the same reporting requirements that apply at the federal level and to transmit the related data to the Agency for inclusion in the federal personal health information registry and the public information registry.”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was allowed to stand.
On Clause 60,
James Lunney moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 60, be amended by replacing line 25 on page 27 with the following:
“sections 5 to 9 or attempts, or is a party to, a prohibited activity is guilty of an offence and”
The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible, because the Committee had already decided against a similar amendment in Clause 13.
Clause 60 carried on division.
On Clause 61,
Jeannot Castonguay moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 61, be amended by replacing lines 36 and 37 on page 27 with the following:
“the regulations is guilty of an offence and”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.
Clause 61, as amended, carried.
Clause 62 carried on division.
Clause 63 carried on division.
Clause 64 carried on division.
On Clause 65,
Yolande Thibeault moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by replacing line 3 on page 29 with the following:
“reimbursed under a licence and the maximum number of times that either donors of human reproductive material or surrogate mothers may be reimbursed;”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by adding after line 42 on page 29 the following:
“(p.1) prescribing limits on the number of children that may be born by means of the same gamete donor and the number of donations that may be made by the same gamete donor;”
After debate, by unanimous consent, the amendment was withdrawn.
Jeannot Castonguay moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by
(a) adding after line 7 on page 29 the following:
“(g) respecting the number of children that may be created from the gametes of
one donor through the application of assisted reproduction procedures;”
(b) relettering the subsequent paragraphs accordingly
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.
Judy Wasylycia-Leis moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by
a) adding after line 39 on page 29 the following:
“(p) respecting the providing of information under paragraph 14 (2) (d);”
b) relettering the subsequent paragraphs accordingly
The Chair ruled that this amendment was consequential to an amendment that the Committee had already adopted in Clause 14. Therefore, the amendment of Judy Wasylycia-Leis was adopted without a vote.
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by replacing lines 25 to 33 on page 30 with the following:
“embryo or foetus; and
(y) for the purposes of section 71, fixing a day.”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 3 NAYS: 7
Rob Merrifield moved, -- That Bill C-13, in Clause 65, be amended by adding after line 25 on page 30 the following:
“(x.1) respecting the maximum number of ova that may be harvested and fertilized for in vitro fertilization purposes;
(x.2) respecting the maximum number of embryos that may be produced, stored and transferred for in vitro fertilization procedures;
(x.3) respecting the maximum number of times a patient should be offered a specified procedure;
(x.4) respecting the counselling services to be provided to donors and recipients of treatment;
(x.5) respecting the maximum number of children that may be produced from a single gamete donor;
(x.6) respecting the eligibility requirements of donors and recipients of gametes or embryos;
(x.7) respecting the known pre-existing heritable genetic diseases or conditions in relation to which pre-implantation genetic diagnosis is permitted;”
After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived by a show of hands:
YEAS: 1 NAYS: 8
Clause 65, as amended, carried on division.
At 1:36 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.
José Cadorette
Clerk of the Committee