NDVA Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL DEFENCE AND VETERANS AFFAIRS

COMITÉ PERMANENT DE LA DÉFENSE NATIONALE ET DES ANCIENS COMBATTANTS

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Wednesday, October 7, 1998

• 1533

[Translation]

The Clerk of the Committee: We are now ready to proceed.

[English]

Honourable members, I see a quorum. Our first order of business is the election of the chair.

Mr. Leon E. Benoit (Lakeland, Ref.): Mr. Clerk, I know the first order of business is the election of the chair, but if I could, I would like to propose that the committee consider the merit of conducting this election by secret ballot. I understand that if it's the consensus of the group here, in fact we are allowed to have a—

Some hon. members: Out of order.

An hon. member: I would move that Pat O'Brien be the chair of this committee.

The Clerk: Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, it's not out of order, but I should take a nomination first and then leave it up to the committee. If you want to go by secret ballot, it's up to you.

Let me take a nomination first and then I'll entertain your motion for a secret ballot.

An hon. member: It's moved by John O'Reilly that Pat O'Brien do take the chair of this committee.

An hon. member: I second.

The Clerk: Okay. Are there any other motions?

[Translation]

Mr. Lebel, would you care to move another motion?

Mr. Ghislain Lebel (Chambly, BQ): I move that Ms. Longfield be elected chair of this committee.

[English]

The Clerk: So we have two motions before the committee.

Now, Mr. Benoit, you would like—

Mr. Leon Benoit: Yes, I would like to move my motion that we move to secret ballot to determine the chair and the vice-chair positions in fact.

The Clerk: Okay. Well, that's two motions. You'll have to move each one at each time.

Mr. Leon Benoit: The chair first.

The Clerk: Okay. It takes consent of the committee. Do you want to go with a secret ballot?

Some hon. members: No.

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Mr. Leon Benoit: Is there any problem? In the past we've felt that some members who might want to vote differently feel they're not really welcome to do that in the presence of the whip or someone from the whip's office.

Mr. John O'Reilly (Haliburton—Victoria—Brock, Lib.): It's a free vote.

Mr. Leon Benoit: I would really ask that we do this by secret ballot. That's pretty democratic.

The Clerk: It takes consent of the committee.

Mr. Robert Bertrand (Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, Lib.): Ask for a vote on it.

The Clerk: It takes consent of the committee. If the members are willing to have a secret ballot, we'll go ahead.

Mr. Rob Anders (Calgary West, Ref.): Mr. Clerk, our electors have the ability to vote in a secret ballot. We haven't had a “free vote” with non-secret ballots in this country since before the turn of the century. I don't think it's out of line to consider it for the committee.

The Clerk: I shouldn't be here considering this. You're debating here. I'm not an elected representative.

Mr. Leon Benoit: Could I just make one point? Yesterday at the Indian affairs committee, in fact the committee agreed to having a secret ballot.

The Clerk: I was there and they had consent. I don't see consent here.

Mr. Leon Benoit: Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

The Clerk: I have two motions. I will take the first one, proposed by Mr. O'Reilly, that Mr. O'Brien be elected chair of the committee.

Mr. Robert Bertrand: Aren't you supposed to ask if they want things to stand?

The Clerk: Oh, I'm sorry.

Mrs. Judi Longfield (Whitby—Ajax, Lib.): I feel honoured to have been nominated. Regrettably, I have taken on in my capacity another task that's going to consume a great deal of my time, and I am not able at this time to consider a chair of this committee.

I want to tell that I will remain as active as I possibly can, but I've made other commitments that make this very difficult.

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

Mr. Leon Benoit: I nominate Mr. Proud then for the position of chair of the committee.

An hon. member: I'll second the nomination.

The Clerk: There's no need for a seconder.

Monsieur Lebel.

[Translation]

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: If the person that I have nominated withdraws, then I am entitled to nominate someone else. Correct?

Some hon. Members: Oh. Oh.

The Clerk: That's correct, Mr. Lebel.

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: I move then that Mr. Wood be elected chair of the committee.

The Clerk: Mr. Wood is the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs. There is nothing in the standing orders to prevent him from serving as vice-chair of the committee. He could be elected to that position. Perhaps Mr. Wood might like to say something.

[English]

I was just saying, nothing in the rules says that you, even as parliamentary secretary, cannot act as vice-chair.

Mr. Bob Wood (Nipissing, Lib.): I appreciate my colleague thinking of me, but I will decline.

[Translation]

The Clerk: Is that all right with you, Mr. Lebel?

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: No, it isn't. If all of my nominations choose to withdraw, then I will move that Hector be elected chair of the committee.

The Clerk: There are already two motions on the table, Mr. Lebel.

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: No matter. We can put them to a vote.

The Clerk: Do you now wish to nominate Mr. Clouthier?

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: Yes.

Mr. Hec Clouthier (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, Lib.): I'm extremely honoured, Mr. Lebel, but I cannot accept. I'm very busy these days. Thank you anyway, my friend.

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: In that case, Mr. Clerk, if the Liberal members are too busy, then I move that Mr. David Pratt, an opposition member, be elected to this position.

The Clerk: We will entertain motions for the election of a vice-chair from the opposition later. You can nominate Mr. Pratt then. The motion now on the table is for the election of Mr. O'Brien. The other members have withdrawn. Shall I now call the vote?

[English]

You decline?

Mr. George Proud (Hillsborough, Lib.): I decline. Sorry. I really appreciate being honoured, but I will decline this time.

The Clerk: We have one motion before us at the moment, that Mr. O'Brien be elected chair of the committee.

(Motion agreed to)

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The Clerk: I would invite Mr. O'Brien to take the chair.

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

An hon. member: You're going to think they didn't like the Irish.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

The Chairman (Mr. Pat O'Brien (London—Fanshawe, Lib.)): I'm not sure I should take this.

[Translation]

I am extremely busy.

[English]

I knew it wasn't against the Irish. It was great fun.

I appreciate the honour, colleagues, and I will do the best job I can in this position. I want to acknowledge the work of our past chair, Mr. Bertrand, and the hard work he did, and indeed the whole committee.

Many of you will know I was a member of this committee. I was not able to be as present as I would have liked, having been a member of two standing committees, which usually met at the same time. Some of my colleagues are going to experience the joys of that particular assignment, and perhaps that was part of some of the interesting comments we had. It will be an interesting task we take on.

We should move right now to the election of vice-chairs. Can I have a nomination for first vice-chair?

Mr. George Proud: Mr. Chairman, I nominate David Pratt.

Mr. Hec Clouthier: I second the nomination.

The Chairman: Okay. Anybody else?

Mr. Leon Benoit: I nominate Mr. Hanger.

The Chairman: This is for the government side.

An hon. member: We'll take him.

Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

The Chairman: The motion is for Mr. Pratt as vice-chair.

(Motion agreed to)

The Chairman: Mr. Pratt, congratulations.

Some hon. members: Hear, hear!

The Chairman: Is there a motion for a vice-chair opposition? Monsieur Lebel.

Mr. Ghislain Lebel: I propose Mr. David Price.

The Chairman: Is there a seconder?

A voice: We don't need a seconder.

The Chairman: Mr. Benoit.

Mr. Leon Benoit: I nominate Mr. Hanger.

The Chairman: Okay. Further nominations?

We have Mr. Price first being nominated.

(Motion negatived)

The Chairman: Now we have Mr. Hanger nominated for vice-chair.

(Motion agreed to)

The Chairman: Mr. Hanger is in absentia vice-chair for the opposition side.

Colleagues, we have just a couple of brief orders of business. I wouldn't mind knowing if you have preferred dates. The committee tended to meet Tuesdays and Thursdays, usually from 9 to 11 o'clock. I'm assuming we would like to avoid Mondays and Fridays. If possible, let me know your preferences before you leave.

Are there any other comments on the logistics? Mr. Proud.

Mr. George Proud: I just wonder, Mr. Chairman, what room we're meeting in on the 20th.

The Chairman: I think it's scheduled for here.

Mr. George Proud: Why do we have to meet here? Why can't we get a room in the West Block or the Centre Block for this meeting? This is one of the senior committees of the House, and we have to come into this room all the time. We're probably going to spend 12 to 15 hours in here that day. I would like to see us move across the road.

The Chairman: Mr. Proud is expressing the desire to be on the Hill proper wherever possible. The comment is particularly interesting and appropriate, given that we're going to go into intensive committee meetings. I've been through that process with Madame Guay on the environment. I'm not sure every member has. It's really handy to be near Centre Block if possible, for votes and a lot of other reasons, but if not Centre Block, then at least on the Hill.

Are there any further comments on that? Mr. Benoit.

Mr. Leon Benoit: I fully support that, Mr. Chair. We will probably be taking some time to go over the report. I know a lot of comments were expressed on the report when we had our short meeting. We should be available so that if there is a vote or if members of the committee have other business in the House, then it's easy.

The Chairman: Anybody else? Mr. O'Reilly.

Mr. John O'Reilly: A room with windows would be nice, so we know we're in Ottawa.

The Chairman: Colleagues, the clerk is indicating that Tuesday is a tough day, but I'm indicating to him—and I'll meet with him privately—that it's a very important priority of this committee that we do everything possible to do that. If it means we have to bump a subcommittee, so be it. A standing committee should have preference over a subcommittee. There's a subcommittee meeting in Centre Block right now as we speak, because I'm supposed to be there as well. So we'll work it out.

• 1545

The Clerk: I think I can manage.

The Chairman: Okay. Is there anything else?

The Clerk: As for the times, the committee does have a block system. We're assigned a block, so we have to sit Tuesday afternoons and—

The Chairman: Oh, that's been predetermined?

The Clerk: Yes, it's predetermined by the whips, and we have no control over that.

The Chairman: So our times are locked in from 9 to 11 o'clock?

The Clerk: No, it's Tuesday afternoons and Thursday afternoons. But we juggled for Thursday mornings in the previous session, which I've been able to manage, but with the proviso that I can get bumped.

Mr. George Proud: Can we do that again? Thursday morning, Mr. Chairman, would be the one—

The Clerk: It's still in the hands of the whips. I have no control over that.

The Chairman: Madame Guay.

Ms. Monique Guay (Laurentides, BQ): Most of the members of the committee are not here right now, so maybe you should discuss that with them.

The Chairman: We'll discuss that with them. We'll create a steering committee. I assure you that we'll meet with the clerk and we'll do our very best to meet the wishes you've expressed.

Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned.