FAIT Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL TRADE

COMITÉ PERMANENT DES AFFAIRES ÉTRANGÈRES ET DU COMMERCE INTERNATIONAL

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Tuesday, October 27, 1998

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[Translation]

The Chairman (Mr. Bill Graham (Toronto Centre—Rosedale, Lib.)): The meeting will now come to order.

This morning, we welcome a delegation from the National Assembly of Cameroon, including the President of the National Assembly. On behalf of our committee, I'd like to welcome all of you to Canada and to this meeting.

Mr. President, it is customary for us to ask the delegation head to say a few words about his country and about relations with Canada. Committee members then ask questions of our invited guests. We will allow approximately 40 minutes for questions. Again, welcome to delegates from a country which is a member of La Francophonie and of the Commonwealth and therefore, a country with ties to Canada. I believe we are two of just a handful of countries to share this foreign policy characteristic.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril (President of the National Assembly of Cameroon): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that introduction. Thank you also for welcoming us here. Our visit to Canada is part of a friendly exchange between members of your House of Commons and of our parliament. We arrived on Saturday and received a warm, cordial reception. Thank you for that, as well as for the hospitality that you have extended to us here in your beautiful country.

Canada and Cameroon have maintained diplomatic ties since Cameroon first gained its independence in 1960. In the years since, the two countries have developed a productive, friendly and cooperative association. I recall that even prior to our country's independence, there was already a large contingent of Canadians, particularly religious workers, helping our people build a nation.

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As I said, Canada and Cameroon have long maintained a friendly, cooperative association. One sign of this relationship is the restructuring of our debt of 30 million francs, as well as the cancellation of a portion of that debt. We are extremely grateful to you for these actions.

We hope that the visit by Canadian parliamentarians to Cameroon and by Cameroonian parliamentarians to Canada will further strengthen this association and lead to greater productive cooperative action in the future.

As you know, Cameroon has embarked on the road to democratization. While democracy is without question a slow process, to our critics who say that we are not moving fast enough, we'd like to say that we are proceeding gradually because there is much to be done. Unlike Canada, many of our citizens are illiterate and have a poor understanding of the concept of democracy. That's why we are proceeding slowly. We have no doubt that we will achieve our goal in time and have a strong democracy. Even in those countries with long-standing democracies, the search for the perfect democracy continues.

Cameroon is also making progress on the human rights front. However, as I was saying earlier, this too is a slow process. It will take time. Our friends on the Canadian Human Rights Commission are in the process of devising a pro-democracy program with the Cameroon national human rights commission. We are confident that we are on the right track and that we will succeed in building a democratic nation that upholds human rights.

That concludes my opening remarks, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. President. We'll now move immediately to questions. If your colleagues would like to field some of the questions, by all means they may do so.

Mr. Mills.

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[English]

Mr. Bob Mills (Red Deer, Ref.): On behalf of the official opposition, I'd like to welcome the delegation.

We welcome you to Canada and hope your stay will be a pleasant one.

Your presentation regarding democracy and democratization of a country shows us that it is a very difficult task, particularly difficult under economic problems and various political constraints. You mentioned illiteracy, which certainly is a problem that has to be addressed.

My question is regarding the African continent itself. Where do you see a coordinated effort at justice, law and order, and personal security? Where do you see the African states being able to work together to accomplish those sorts of things? I think of Sudan, Nigeria, and places like that, which are having severe problems. What kinds of pressures do you see all of the African states being able to exert in dealing with those kinds of problems?

[Translation]

The Chairman: Excuse me, Mr. Mills and Mr. President. Apparently, there will be a vote in the House in 25 minutes. Therefore, I suggest that each member be allowed five minutes for questions and answers. I believe three persons would like to ask some questions. We will wrap up at 11:40 a.m. in order to be in the House at 11:50 a.m..

[English]

So everybody understands the rules of the game, I'm going to hold you all to five minutes, because we have a vote in 28 minutes.

[Translation]

Mr. President.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Thank you. In my opinion, the problem confronting Africa today is one of survival. As you can appreciate, this is a very important consideration.

You asked me what concerted action is being taken. Regional organizations are working together on the economic front. Consider, for example, the countries of the SADEC. I'm thinking in particular about central Africa and the central African economic and monetary community. Members of this community are focusing on finding solutions to Africa's economic and political problems. Basically, that's what I wanted to say. Since time is in short supply, it's difficult to answer such a broad question.

The Chairman: Ms. Debien.

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Ms. Maud Debien (Laval East, BQ): Mr. President, Members of the National Assembly of Cameroon, I'm very pleased to welcome you today to this committee on behalf of the Bloc Québécois, one of the opposition parties in the House of Commons. I'm even more pleased that I can address you in French, as this doesn't happen very often.

Cameroon was the first country in Africa in which Canada was involved on the cooperative front. As you mentioned earlier, cooperative efforts were carried out not only through CIDA, but also by Quebec institutions and agencies, notably Hydro-Québec, Bombardier, Sofati and SNC-Lavalin. All of these major Quebec companies have been involved in projects in Cameroon and they still are today.

With respect to education, many Quebec institutions now operate in your country. One example of this is the Collège technique de LaSalle which is associated with the Collège technique in Yaoundé. Furthermore, the Christian Brothers and the Sacred Heart Brothers have also opened institutions at various locations in Cameroon's main cities. Clearly, Quebec and Cameroon have a long-standing cooperative association. You mentioned the first missionaries from this country to go to Cameroon, even before the country gained its independence. Therefore, I'm sure you can appreciate that we're very pleased to welcome you here and to have this opportunity to exchange ideas and views with you.

You referred to the process of democratization now under way in your country, particularly since the introduction of a multi- party system. Attempts to bring a multi-party political system to Cameroon came to fruition in 1990 and you deserve much credit for your efforts to bring democracy to your nation.

Earlier, you mentioned that survival was an issue. I understand that your country is facing very serious economic problems. I have a question for you concerning the structural adjustments that have been imposed on you by large donor countries and by the IMF and the World Bank. What effect have these obligations had on your country's population?

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Thank you for your question. You have a clear understanding of the economic situation facing African nations, particularly those that have had to contend with the Structural Adjustment Program. As you know, many restrictions have been imposed on them. I am not an economist. Therefore, I will turn the floor over to Mr. Meva'a, who is in a better position to discuss further the impact that the SAP has had on the Cameroonian people.

Mr. Michel Meva'a m'Eboutou (Secretary-General of the General Assembly of Cameroon): Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Madam.

Your question is indeed highly relevant. As the President of the National Assembly stated, the first step we need to take is to assess the impact of the Structural Adjustment Program, or SAP, on our economy in general and then on our people.

The SAP has resulted in very positive actions at the state level. To begin with, the SAP has prompted the state to cut all unnecessary expenditures. A budget has been drawn up with a view to meeting the public's expectations in the area of health care, education and rural development.

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The SAP has resulted in a fundamental restructuring of our nation's industrial fabric. A number of minor companies have disappeared, while others have managed to survive. Our nation's industry has acquired some stability.

Elsewhere, efforts have been made... the Cameroonian people understand the situation and have accepted the sacrifices imposed by the SAP without any adverse reaction. Instead, they have set to work trying to increase agricultural production. As a result, we have been able to increase export volumes and generate more revenues.

As the President said, in order to give you a complete picture of the SAP's impact on our economy and on our people, we would need more time. Basically, the state has become more aware of its expenditures, has taken concerted action in the areas of education, health and rural development and helped to generate more revenues for the working population.

The Chairman: Mr. Patry.

Mr. Bernard Patry (Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.): Welcome to Canada, Mr. President. I too am a Member of Parliament from Quebec, although I represent the government party. I'm also the President of the Canadian Section of the APF, the Assemblée des parlementaires de la Francophonie, formerly the AIPLF or International Assembly of French-speaking Parliamentarians. I believe you're the Honorary President of this assembly. Mr. Noma, who is the President of the Cameroonian Section, is also the First Vice-President of the international assembly. In all likelihood, he will become APF president in July 1999.

In April of 1997, some problems erupted on the sociopolitical front in northwestern Cameroon. Violence broke out in some regions, including the municipality of Bamenda. During the round of elections that were held in your country, representatives from different parties, including the RDPC, the UDC and the FDC were elected. I'm curious as to whether the members of your delegation represent these different political parties.

I also have a second question for you. Recently, Canada was given a non-permanent seat on the UN Security Council, primarily as a result of the support it received from its African friends. Cameroon was not one of the 40 countries that initially ratified the anti-personnel land mines treaty in Ottawa and I'd like to know if your parliament does plan to ratify that treaty eventually, if it hasn't already done so.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Thank you for your question. This delegation from Cameroon is comprised of representatives of the four largest political parties represented in the National Assembly. We have delegates representing the RDPC, the SDF, the UNDP and the UDC. All political parties are represented on all of our parliamentary institutions, including the National Assembly Bureau, parliamentary commissions and international missions. This multi-party system has brought peace to our nation.

In response to your second question regarding the ratification of the anti-personnel land mines treaty, I'm happy to say that Cameroon has already ratified this convention.

Thank you.

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The Chairman: Ms. Debien, you run the risk of not making it to the House in time for the vote.

Ms. Maud Debien: I'd simply like to extend a particularly warm welcome to Mrs. Isabelle, one of the Cameroonian delegates. The status of women is one issue of special interest to me personally, both here in Canada and elsewhere. I wonder if Mrs. Isabelle can tell me if it is very difficult for a woman to become a political candidate and get elected in Cameroon. What problems have you encountered? How many women hold seats in your National Assembly?

The Hon. Silikam Isabelle (Member of the Assembly and Secretary of the Bureau of the National Assembly of Cameroon): Thank you, Madam. I'm delighted to meet you.

Throughout Africa in general and in Cameroon in particular, it is a struggle for women to get elected to Parliament. The real struggle occurs at the party level. First of all, a woman must be nominated by her party and she does encounter opposition. I was up against several men. I was the only female candidate in my constituency and I won out over all of the male contenders.

There are a total of 10 women in the 118-seat Assembly. Therefore, we still have a way to go before achieving full representation. However, I feel quite at home and most deserving of my seat.

Ms. Maud Debien: I wish you all the best. Here in Canada as well, women still have quite a way to go.

The Hon. Silikam Isabelle: How many women MPs are there in the House of Commons?

Ms. Maud Debien: Around 60.

The Chairman: Out of a total of 300 MPs.

Ms. Maud Debien: 60 out of a total of 302.

The Chairman: Here in Canada, women are threatening to run men out of politics completely.

Ms. Maud Debien: Eighteen per cent of MPs in the house are women. As you can see, we have a long ways to go yet.

The Hon. Silikam Isabelle: We have our sights set on this goal.

Ms. Maud Debien: Thank you.

The Chairman: Dr. Patry has one final comment and then we'll wrap up.

Mr. Bernard Patry: Changing the subject, last year in Yaoundé, a prestigious Islamic complex was built. Is Islamic fervour on the rise in Cameroon?

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Are you asking me this because you know I'm Muslim?

Mr. Bernard Patry: No.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: The construction of this mosque does not signal a resurgence of Islamic fervour. This project was first undertaken over ten years ago. Construction was delayed because of land title problems and because of a lack of adequate funding. The problems regarding land title were resolved and Saudi Arabia provided the necessary funding. That's why the mosque was finally built.

That been said, religious groups co-exist peacefully in Cameroon. In fact, this mosque is located in the heart of a Catholic area.

Mr. Bernard Patry: Thank you.

The Chairman: There also happens to be a mosque in my Toronto riding.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: May I ask a few questions?

The Chairman: Unfortunately, Mr. President, that is not possible because we have only 10 minutes left and it takes us ten minutes to get to the House.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: I just have a few questions. Wouldn't you agree that African economies are threatened by the move toward globalization?

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The Chairman: Mr. President, our studies have not provided us with a clear answer to your question, but members of this committee are concerned that African economies may have been somewhat forgotten in all of this, particularly by the WTO and in the course of discussions on globalization. Recently, I met in Toronto with the President of Botswana, a fairly wealthy country because of its natural resources. Some countries are better off than others, but we all agree that globalization does present a threat of some sort to African nations.

Your country was kind enough to support Canada's efforts to gain a seat on the Security Council. We must now accept the reality that is the African economy and lend you our assistance through international financial institutions, such as the IMF, the WTO and so forth.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Thank you very much.

The Chairman: Thank you very much and I look forward to playing host to your delegation again in Toronto. Until then.

The Right Honourable Cavaye Yeguie Djibril: Until then. Thank you very much.

[English]

The Chairman: We're adjourned. We're going to try to meet on Kosovo tomorrow afternoon, or if not, Thursday morning.