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HOUSE OF COMMONS OF CANADA
35th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION


JOURNALS

No. 108

Wednesday, November 27, 1996

2:00 p.m.



PRAYERS

NATIONAL ANTHEM

STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS

Pursuant to Standing Order 31, Members made statements.

ORAL QUESTIONS

Pursuant to Standing Order 30(5), the House proceeded to Oral Questions.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), Mr. Zed (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) laid upon the Table, -- Government responses, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), to the following petitions: (1) Nos. 352-0974, 352-0975 and 352-1106 concerning the Kurdish situation in the Middle East. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-352-125; (2) No. 352-1120 concerning the income tax system. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-352-28X; (3) No. 352-1135 concerning the tax system. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-352-24O; (4) No. 352-1150 concerning government spending. -- Sessional Paper No. 8545-352-50F.

Statements by Ministers

Pursuant to Standing Order 33(1), Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice) made a statement.

Introduction of Private Members' Bills

Pursuant to Standing Orders 68(2) and 69(1), on motion of Mr. Bonin (Nickel Belt), seconded by Mr. Cannis (Scarborough Centre), Bill C-355, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act (protection of community interests in programming), was introduced, read the first time, ordered to be printed and ordered for a second reading at the next sitting of the House.

Motions

By unanimous consent, it was ordered, -- That the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs be the Committee designated for the purposes of Section 232 of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act.

Presenting Petitions

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, petitions certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions were presented as follows:

-- by Mr. Szabo (Mississauga South), one concerning police and firefighters' death benefits (No. 352-1304) and one concerning the income tax system (No. 352-1305);

-- by Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre), one concerning sexual orientation (No. 352-1306) and one concerning the sexual exploitation of minors (No. 352-1307);

-- by Mr. White (Fraser Valley West), one concerning natural gas from Sable Island (No. 352-1308).

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gerrard (Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification)), -- That the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, be now read a second time and concurred in.

The debate continued.

Mr. Ramsay (Crowfoot), seconded by Mr. Williams (St. Albert), moved the following amendment, -- That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word "That" and substituting the following: "a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint their Honours that this House disagrees with amendment No. 1 made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, and that this House agrees with the principles set out in amendment No. 2, but would propose the following amendments:

    (a) insert the words ``for a period not to exceed 3 years'' after the words ``judicial duties'' in section 56.1(1);
    (b) strike out all the lines in section 56.1(2) and substitute the following:
      ``If Madam Justice Arbour elects to take leave pursuant to section 56.1(1) she may receive moving or transportation expenses and reasonable travel and other expenses, in connection with her services as Prosecutor, from the United Nations'';
    (c) that the following words be added to section 56.1(3):
      ``notwithstanding any prohibition against accepting any salary fee, remuneration or other emolument described in section 57''; and
    (d) that the following words be added to section 56.1(5):
      ``and that benefits payable under these sections will be paid or will commence to be paid at the expiration of the leave of absence without pay''.''

Debate arose thereon.

Mr. Williams (St. Albert), seconded by Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre), moved the following sub-amendment, -- That the amendment be amended by deleting all the words after and including the words: ``and that the following words be added to section 56.1(5):''.

Debate arose thereon.


Pursuant to Standing Order 26(1), Mr. Kilger (Stormont -- Dundas), seconded by Ms. Catterall (Ottawa West), moved, -- That the House continue to sit beyond the ordinary hour of daily adjournment for the purpose of considering amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act.

The question was put on the motion and, fewer than 15 Members having risen to object, pursuant to standing Order 26(2), the motion was adopted.


The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gerrard (Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification)), -- That the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, be now read a second time and concurred in;

And of the amendment of Mr. Ramsay (Crowfoot), seconded by Mr. Williams (St. Albert);

And of the sub-amendment of Mr. Williams (St. Albert), seconded by Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre).

The question was put on the sub-amendment and, pursuant to Standing Order 45, the recorded division was deferred until later today, at 5:45 p.m..

NOTICE OF MOTION

Mr. Mifflin (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans) gave notice of the intention to move a motion at the next sitting of the House, pursuant to Standing Order 78(3), for the purpose of allotting a specified number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of the third reading of Bill C-29, An Act to regulate interprovincial trade in and the importation for commercial purposes of certain manganese-based substances.

GOVERNMENT ORDERS

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Mifflin (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans), seconded by Ms. McLellan (Minister of Natural Resources), -- That Bill C-62, An Act respecting fisheries, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans;

And of the amendment of Mr. Gilmour (Comox -- Alberni), seconded by Mr. Harper (Calgary West), -- That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word ``That'' and substituting the following:

      ``Bill C-62 be not now read a second time but that the Order be discharged, the Bill withdrawn and the subject-matter thereof referred to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.''

Mrs. Hayes (Port Moody -- Coquitlam), seconded by Mr. Cummins (Delta), moved the following sub-amendment, -- That the amendment be amended by adding the following:

      ``and that the Committee report back to the House no later than June 19, 1997.''

The Speaker ruled out of order the motion moved earlier today pursuant to Standing Order 26(1) to extend sitting for the purpose of considering amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act. He also declared null and void all subsequent proceedings relating to this motion.


Notice having been given at a previous sitting under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), Mr. Gagliano (Minister of Labour and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons), seconded by Mr. Mifflin (Minister of Fisheries and Oceans)), moved, -- That in relation to Bill C-29, An Act to regulate interprovincial trade in and the importation for commercial purposes of certain manganese-based substances, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration of the third reading stage of the bill; and that, fifteen minutes before the expiry of the time provided for government business on the allotted day of the third reading consideration of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and in turn every question necessary for the disposal of the third reading stage of the bill shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following division:



(Division--Vote No 185)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Alcock -- Allmand -- Arseneault -- Assadourian -- Augustine -- Baker -- Bakopanos -- Barnes -- Beaumier -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Bellemare -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Boudria -- Brown --  (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Byrne -- Caccia -- Calder -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Catterall -- Cauchon -- Chamberlain -- Cohen -- Collenette -- Collins -- Copps -- Cowling -- Crawford -- Culbert -- Cullen -- DeVillers -- Dhaliwal -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Duhamel -- Easter -- English -- Finestone -- Flis -- Fontana -- Gaffney -- Gagliano -- Gagnon --  (Bonaventure -- Îles-de-la-Madeleine) -- Gerrard -- Godfrey -- Goodale -- Graham -- Grose -- Harb -- Hopkins -- Hubbard -- Jackson -- Keyes -- Kilger --  (Stormont -- Dundas) -- Kirkby -- Knutson -- Kraft Sloan -- Lastewka -- Lee -- Lincoln -- MacAulay -- MacLellan --  (Cape/Cap-Breton -- The Sydneys) -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Manley -- Marleau -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McKinnon -- McLellan --  (Edmonton Northwest/Nord-Ouest) -- McTeague -- Mifflin -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- O'Brien --  (London -- Middlesex) -- O'Reilly -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Parrish -- Patry -- Payne -- Peric -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Pickard --  (Essex -- Kent) -- Proud -- Reed -- Regan -- Richardson -- Rideout -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Robillard -- Rock -- Scott --  (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Simmons -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart --  (Brant) -- Szabo -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Torsney -- Ur -- Verran -- Volpe -- Walker -- Wells -- Whelan -- Wood -- Zed -- 126

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Abbott -- Ablonczy -- Asselin -- Bachand -- Bélisle -- Bellehumeur -- Bergeron -- Bernier --  (Gaspé) -- Bernier --  (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Blaikie -- Brien -- Brown --  (Calgary Southeast/Sud-Est) -- Chatters -- Chrétien --  (Frontenac) -- Crête -- Cummins -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- de Jong -- de Savoye -- Debien -- Deshaies -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Dumas -- Duncan -- Epp -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Gagnon --  (Québec) -- Gauthier -- Godin -- Grey --  (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Guimond -- Hanger -- Harper --  (Calgary West/Ouest) -- Harper --  (Simcoe Centre) -- Hayes -- Hermanson -- Hill --  (Macleod) -- Hill --  (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Jacob -- Johnston -- Kerpan -- Landry -- Langlois -- Laurin -- Lavigne --  (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lebel -- Leblanc --  (Longueuil) -- Lefebvre -- Leroux --  (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Loubier -- Marchand -- Martin --  (Esquimalt -- Juan de Fuca) -- Ménard -- Mercier -- Meredith -- Mills --  (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Nunez -- Paré -- Penson -- Picard --  (Drummond) -- Ramsay -- Rocheleau -- Solberg -- Solomon -- Speaker -- Strahl -- Taylor -- Thompson -- Tremblay --  (Rosemont) -- White --  (Fraser Valley West/Ouest) -- White --  (North Vancouver) -- Williams -- 77

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Anderson -- Caron -- Chan -- Clancy -- Copps -- Eggleton -- Fillion -- Guay -- Irwin -- Lalonde -- Leroux --  (Shefford) -- MacDonald -- Marchi -- Martin --  (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Pomerleau -- Sauvageau -- Tremblay --  (Lac-Saint-Jean) -- Venne


Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gerrard (Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification)), -- That the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, be now read a second time and concurred in;

The House resumed consideration of the motion of Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice), seconded by Mr. Gerrard (Secretary of State (Science, Research and Development) (Western Economic Diversification)), -- That the amendments made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, be now read a second time and concurred in;

And of the amendment of Mr. Ramsay (Crowfoot), seconded by Mr. Williams (St. Albert), -- That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the word "That" and substituting the following: "a Message be sent to the Senate to acquaint their Honours that this House disagrees with amendment No. 1 made by the Senate to Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act, and that this House agrees with the principles set out in amendment No. 2, but would propose the following amendments:

    (a) insert the words "for a period not to exceed 3 years" after the words "judicial duties" in section 56.1(1);
    (b) strike out all the lines in section 56.1(2) and substitute the following:
      "If Madam Justice Arbour elects to take leave pursuant to section 56.1(1) she may receive moving or transportation expenses and reasonable travel and other expenses, in connection with her services as Prosecutor, from the United Nations";
    (c) that the following words be added to section 56.1(3):
      "notwithstanding any prohibition against accepting any salary fee, remuneration or other emolument described in section 57";
    (d) that the following words be added to section 56.1(5):
      ``and that benefits payable under these sections will be paid or will commence to be paid at the expiration of the leave of absence without pay''.''

The House proceeded to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the sub-amendment of Mr. Williams (St. Albert), seconded by Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre), -- That the amendment be amended by deleting all the words after and including the words: ``and that the following words be added to section 56.1(5):''

The question was put on the sub-amendment and it was negatived on the following division:


(Division--Vote No 186)

YEAS-POUR

Members--Députés

-- Abbott -- Ablonczy -- Brown --  (Calgary Southeast/Sud-Est) -- Chatters -- Cummins -- Duncan -- Epp -- Forseth -- Frazer -- Grey --  (Beaver River) -- Grubel -- Hanger -- Harper --  (Calgary West/Ouest) -- Harper --  (Simcoe Centre) -- Hayes -- Hermanson -- Hill --  (Macleod) -- Hill --  (Prince George -- Peace River) -- Johnston -- Kerpan -- Martin --  (Esquimalt -- Juan de Fuca) -- Meredith -- Mills --  (Red Deer) -- Morrison -- Penson -- Ramsay -- Solberg -- Speaker -- Strahl -- Thompson -- White --  (Fraser Valley West/Ouest) -- White --  (North Vancouver) -- Williams -- 33

NAYS-CONTRE

Members--Députés

-- Alcock -- Allmand -- Arseneault -- Assadourian -- Asselin -- Augustine -- Bachand -- Baker -- Bakopanos -- Barnes -- Beaumier -- Bélair -- Bélanger -- Bélisle -- Bellehumeur -- Bellemare -- Bergeron -- Bernier --  (Gaspé) -- Bernier --  (Mégantic -- Compton -- Stanstead) -- Bertrand -- Bethel -- Bevilacqua -- Blaikie -- Blondin-Andrew -- Bodnar -- Bonin -- Boudria -- Brien -- Brown --  (Oakville -- Milton) -- Brushett -- Bryden -- Byrne -- Caccia -- Calder -- Campbell -- Cannis -- Catterall -- Cauchon -- Chamberlain -- Chrétien --  (Frontenac) -- Cohen -- Collenette -- Collins -- Copps -- Cowling -- Crawford -- Crête -- Culbert -- Cullen -- Dalphond-Guiral -- Daviault -- de Jong -- de Savoye -- Debien -- Deshaies -- DeVillers -- Dhaliwal -- Discepola -- Dromisky -- Dubé -- Duceppe -- Duhamel -- Dumas -- Easter -- English -- Finestone -- Flis -- Fontana -- Gaffney -- Gagliano -- Gagnon --  (Bonaventure -- Îles-de-la-Madeleine) -- Gagnon --  (Québec) -- Gauthier -- Gerrard -- Godfrey -- Godin -- Goodale -- Graham -- Grose -- Guimond -- Harb -- Hopkins -- Hubbard -- Jackson -- Jacob -- Keyes -- Kilger --  (Stormont -- Dundas) -- Kirkby -- Knutson -- Kraft Sloan -- Landry -- Langlois -- Lastewka -- Laurin -- Lavigne --  (Beauharnois -- Salaberry) -- Lebel -- Leblanc --  (Longueuil) -- Lee -- Lefebvre -- Leroux --  (Richmond -- Wolfe) -- Lincoln -- Loubier -- MacAulay -- MacLellan --  (Cape/Cap-Breton -- The Sydneys) -- Malhi -- Maloney -- Manley -- Marchand -- Marleau -- Massé -- McCormick -- McGuire -- McKinnon -- McLellan --  (Edmonton Northwest/Nord-Ouest) -- McTeague -- Ménard -- Mercier -- Mifflin -- Minna -- Mitchell -- Murphy -- Murray -- Nault -- Nunez -- O'Brien --  (London -- Middlesex) -- O'Reilly -- Pagtakhan -- Paradis -- Paré -- Parrish -- Patry -- Payne -- Peric -- Peters -- Peterson -- Phinney -- Picard --  (Drummond) -- Pickard --  (Essex -- Kent) -- Proud -- Reed -- Regan -- Richardson -- Rideout -- Ringuette-Maltais -- Robichaud -- Robillard -- Rocheleau -- Rock -- Scott --  (Fredericton -- York -- Sunbury) -- Serré -- Shepherd -- Simmons -- Solomon -- St. Denis -- Steckle -- Stewart --  (Brant) -- Szabo -- Taylor -- Telegdi -- Terrana -- Torsney -- Tremblay --  (Rosemont) -- Ur -- Verran -- Volpe -- Walker -- Wappel -- Wells -- Whelan -- Wood -- Zed -- 171

Paired Members--Députés Pairés

-- Anderson -- Caron -- Chan -- Clancy -- Copps -- Eggleton -- Fillion -- Guay -- Irwin -- Lalonde -- Leroux --  (Shefford) -- MacDonald -- Marchi -- Martin --  (LaSalle -- Émard) -- Pomerleau -- Sauvageau -- Tremblay --  (Lac-Saint-Jean) -- Venne

NOTICE OF MOTION

Mr. Gagliano (Minister of Labour and Deputy Leader of the Government in the House of Commons) gave notice of the intention to move a motion at the next sitting of the House, pursuant to Standing Order 78(3), for the purpose of allotting a specified number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of the consideration of Senate amendments stage of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Judges Act and to make consequential amendments to another Act.

PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS

At 6:20 p.m, pursuant to Standing Order 30(7), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.

The Order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs of Bill C-316, An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (oath or solemn affirmation).

Mr. Bellemare (Carleton -- Gloucester), seconded by Mr. MacLellan (Cape Breton -- The Sydneys), moved, -- That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

Debate arose thereon.

Pursuant to Standing Order 96(1), the Order was dropped from the Order Paper.

RETURNS AND REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(1), papers deposited with the Clerk of the House were laid upon the Table as follows:

-- by Ms. Copps (Minister of Canadian Heritage) -- Summaries of the Corporate Plan and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1996-97 to 2000-01 of the National Gallery of Canada and its affiliate the Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R. S. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -- Sessional Paper No. 8562-352-859. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage)

-- by Mr. Rock (Minister of Justice) -- Draft regulations concerning: Firearms Licences Regulations (SOR 96-458-01), Non-Prohibited Ammunition Transfer Document Regulations (SOR 96-224-01), Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations (SOR 96-216-02), Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations (SOR 96-564-01), Authorizations to Transport Restricted Firearms and Prohibited Firearms Regulations (SOR 96-243-02), Authorizations to Carry Restricted Firearms and Certain Handguns Regulations (SOR 96-242-02), Authorization to Export or Import Firearms Regulations (Businesses) (SOR 96-560-01), Conditions of Transferring Firearms and Other Weapons Regulations (SOR 96-566-01), Firearms Records Regulations (SOR 96-584-01), Aboriginal Peoples of Canada Adaptations Regulations (Firearms) (SOR 96-585-02), Firearms Fees Regulations (SOR 96-268-02), pursuant to An Act respecting firearms and other weapons, S. C. 1995, c. 39, sbs. 118(1). -- Sessional Paper No. 8560-352-492A. (Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), permanently referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs)

PETITIONS FILED WITH THE CLERK OF THE HOUSE

Pursuant to Standing Order 36, a petition certified correct by the Clerk of Petitions was filed as follows:

-- by Mr. Milliken (Kingston and the Islands), concerning national unity (No. 352-1309).

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION

At 7:15 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 38(1), the question ``That this House do now adjourn'' was deemed to have been proposed.

After debate, the question was deemed to have been adopted.

ADJOURNMENT

At 7:21 p.m., the Speaker adjourned the House until tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).