[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Thursday, March 28, 1996
.1104 
[Translation]
The Chairman: As we were advised last Tuesday, Mr. Rabinovitch, Assistant Deputy Minister for Cultural Development and Heritage, will be late because he's in a meeting with the minister. The presentation will be made by Mrs. Lyn Elliot-Sherwood, Director General,
[English]
Canadian Heritage Information Network.
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Ms Elliot-Sherwood, please introduce your colleagues and proceed. I take it you will have a presentation of about twenty minutes so as to allow for a lot of questions.
Ms Lyn Elliot-Sherwood (Director General, Canadian Heritage Information Network): Yes, that's correct.
I would be happy to introduce my colleagues. We are a slightly larger delegation today than what you are perhaps used to seeing.
[Translation]
Mr. Rabinovitch asked me to say how much he regrets not being able to be here for the beginning of this meeting. Right now, he's with the minister at a Cabinet committee. He hopes to be here by noon.
[English]
In the meantime, we've brought a large delegation so that we can be sure of responding to all of your questions.
Bill Peters is the director general of the Canadian Conservation Institute. Susan Baldwin is the director general of the broadcasting policy group. With Victor and coming later will be Susan Katz, the director general of the cultural industries branch. Charles Gruchy is the director general of the heritage policy branch. Denise Perrier is the director general of the arts policy branch.
You've had a brief introduction to the sector from the appearance on the 19th, which included Victor. What we'd like to do today is walk through the objectives or instruments we use, the organization of the sector, and a little more detail on some of the priorities and strategic objectives.
Briefly, at the most summary level, the objectives of the cultural development and heritage sector are to foster an environment in which Canada's arts and heritage are preserved and appreciated by audiences at home and abroad, through improved access and support to creators, cultural organizations, industries and institutions.
We're also looking to contribute to Canada's economic, social and cultural growth by increasing the availability of and access to Canadian broadcasting products and services and by developing and strengthening our cultural industries through improved distribution and marketing.
The general issue is to ensure that Canadians have choices that include Canadian products and services.
The approach taken by the government and Canada generally to cultural development over the years has tended to be a fairly flexible mix of policies, financial support, regulatory intervention and support of partnerships with other levels of government and with the private sector in support of the objectives that are shared across the country.
What this has enabled us to do over the years is respond to the diverse needs of different regions and cultural communities, and also to the evolving needs. We look particularly at what has happened, for example, within the heritage community over the last twenty years. The needs and state of maturity of the cultural industries have evolved equally in that period.
[Translation]
The Cultural Development Sector interacts with a broad range of direct and indirect clients such as cultural industries, broadcast enterprises, telecommunication enterprises - if broadcasting is affected by their activities - non profit organizations, industry groups, individual artists and performers, federal, provincial and municipal museums and international organizations. Generally speaking, it's fair to say that the activities in this sector affect almost every canadian home through books, films, newspapers and all areas of entertainment and education.
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The Cultural Development and Heritage Sector manages policies and programs on broadcasting, film, video and sound recording, book and periodical publishing, museums, art galleries, archives and libraries, performing, literary and visual arts, multimedia and the information highway and copyright. The sector is really the government's primary point of contact with organizations that have dealings with all the above stakeholders.
The sector covers a broad mix of political activities and programs such as international agreements, cultural agencies, partnerships and special operating agencies including the Canadian Conservation Institute and Canadian Heritage Information Network. We also cover legislation and regulations, tax incentives and more direct financial support as well as having some involvement in foreign investment guidelines.
[English]
So it's a very wide-ranging sector and set of instruments. It does need to be flexible to respond to the needs that are there. And there is a constant review within the sector of the instruments that are used in response to an analysis of the state of any given sector of our intervention.
Certainly what we're seeing at this point is that culture and heritage activities represent one of the most important and dynamic sectors of the Canadian economy. There's a combined direct and indirect impact on the gross domestic product of close to $24 billion. Of that, about $16 billion has direct impact. Direct employment in this area accounts for about 670,000 jobs. That is growing very quickly, much more quickly, I think, than most other sectors of the economy at this point.
These enterprises are intensely labour intensive. What is also true is that investment in this area results in jobs that tend to be at a lower cost than investment in other areas that require a higher level of capital investment.
We're seeing, for example, in the multimedia industry the number of creative staff and content specialists now vastly exceeding the number of technical specialists who are required.
There's a growing sector there certainly with the performing arts. It's very obviously a labour-intensive area.
There's considerable consumer spending directly within the area and there are considerable spin-off benefits, for example, in service industries that surround cultural events or locations. What the department's activities contribute to is a very broad range of economic, social, and cultural benefits.
We have included an annex at the back of your deck that goes into more detail about statistics associated with any given area of intervention, such as the number of jobs or the overall financial state.
We decided that there's nothing worse than hearing statistics read at great length, so we spared you that. You can read them yourselves. But I do recommend them to your attention, because I think they convey a sense that this area is a very significant one to Canada. It's not just a luxury, but very much essential to the overall Canadian economy, as well as to its cultural position.
What I will do at this point is just touch broadly on the strategic objectives. I will come back to the strategic objectives later on.
My understanding, Mr. Chairman, is that the committee would like some sense at this point of how we're organized and what we're doing as a result of that organization, as well as our strategic objectives. I would spend a little bit of time on that, and then we'll come back to the strategic objectives.
Broadly speaking, or again at the summary level, we've defined the strategic objectives as being to ensure access to Canadian voices and spaces, to contribute to Canada's economic growth and prosperity, and protecting Canada's heritage.
To accomplish those objectives, we have an ADM within the sector who also has the standard finance administration coordination units attached to him. He's Mr. Victor Rabinovitch, who will be joining us.
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We have four branches - I introduced you to my colleagues - arts policy, broadcasting policy, cultural industries, and heritage, as well as two special operating agencies, the Canadian Conservation Institute and the Canadian Heritage Information Network, which, for future reference, is CHIN. It's so much shorter to say that I'll use that from now on.
The arts policy branch is responsible for national strategies and policies to assist Canadian artists and non-profit cultural organizations and is responsible as well for promoting in general the development of the arts sector. It includes a mix of policy and program activities focused on artists, creators and non-profit organizations. It has two divisions, one of which deals with technology, marketing, and professional development, and the second of which deals with arts financing and legislation.
Its primary clients include organizations representing or assisting individual artists, as well as presenters of special events and festivals. It is the branch with the lead responsibility for advising the minister on governmental policy regarding the Canada Council and the National Arts Centre.
Its key priorities at this point are long-term financial stability for non-profit arts organizations, including a number of initiatives to create regional stabilization programs for large organizations and specific programs for small or medium organizations.
The branch is also investigating the prospect of additional tax measures to encourage private individual and corporate support for arts activities.
A second area of priority is the distribution of cultural products and consumer access to Canadian art and culture. The cultural initiatives program is being refocused to emphasize festivals and to foster the development of new strategic alliances, improved management practices, expanded audiences, increased revenues, and the greater use of new technologies within the arts sector.
I know that my colleague, when we get to questions, will be happy to respond to any questions you have on that.
The broadcasting policy branch develops policies and advises on issues facing the Canadian broadcasting system, including Canadian content, consumer choice and competition. It certainly has a very major role - I look at the bags under my colleague's eyes - in terms of regulatory issues, including Canadian content, access to services and competition, and licensing decisions. Those, as you're fully aware, are very active files these days.
The branch has three divisions. The first focuses on distribution systems and multimedia within the broadcast context. The second is broadcasting services policy. The third is regulatory policy.
It's also responsible for our department's contribution to the overall government effort with respect to information highway policies.
Primary clients for the branch, while acknowledging that indirect clients include all the Canadian households with television sets, include: originating television stations; originating radio stations and cable broadcasters; telephone companies; satellite companies, with the advent of direct-to-home services; wireless cable; groups who are seeking to ensure Canadian presence on the airwaves; and organizations representing under-served communities that want access to the broadcasting system. The branch has the main responsibility for advice to the minister on government policy with respect to the CBC and the CRTC.
As for priorities, I think it's probably difficult for this branch to say that there are 2 priorities. That's because if we say there are 2, then there are 37 others that are also being actively worked on that are not reflected. But broadly speaking, our priorities are convergence, about which I thinkMr. Rabinovitch spoke briefly on the 19th, and Canadian policies with respect to the information highway and its content.
The cultural industries branch develops policies and programs to strengthen Canadian cultural industries and encourage access to their product. Again, it's a mix of policies and programs designed to strengthen the industry, both within Canada and very much increasingly in the global marketplace. We are seeing some signs recently of greater export potential for these industries.
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It deals not only with production of cultural content, but also with the distribution, with the infrastructure in place in support of that distribution, and with legal recognition and protection of copyright.
It does all this with three divisions, the first of which is film, video, and sound recording policy and programs, the second of which is publishing policy and programs, and the third of which is copyright and economic policy.
The direct clients are the cultural enterprises that develop Canadian content in a variety of media to compete in Canadian and international markets and the consumers of Canadian cultural products.
A number of the industries that have been in traditional media lines - publishing, doing books, doing film - are now increasingly moving into new areas of activity, such as multimedia, which is becoming an industry that crosses the traditional industry lines that we've seen in place up to this point.
The cultural industries branch has the main responsibility for advising the minister on government policy with respect to Telefilm Canada and the National Film Board. Its priorities at the moment will come as no surprise to you; they are copyright, phase two and foreign investment policy for cultural industries.
The heritage branch promotes preservation and public display of objects and collections reflecting Canada's cultural, scientific, and natural heritage and is also working in the area of standards in these areas. It disposes of a mix of policy and legislative activities, as well as financial support, to serve museums and other heritage organizations in Canada.
The list of agencies for which this branch is responsible for providing advice to the minister is extremely long. It includes the four national museums - the National Gallery, the Museum of Civilization, the Canadian Museum of Nature, and the Museum of Science and Technology - the National Library, and the National Archives, and it is also responsible for the Canadian Cultural Property Export Review Board and the administration of the Cultural Property Export and Import Act.
Its primary direct clients are the heritage institutions and museums. Its indirect clients are the close to 50% of Canadians who in any given year will visit one of those institutions.
Its priorities in the immediate future are measures that will increase.... Somebody put the word ``philanthropism'' in this deck. I thought if I could practise it long enough, I could say it. The measures will encourage donations to this sector.
A second priority is the preservation of Canada's audio-visual heritage. The media on which productions were captured a number of years ago are not necessarily stable and robust, and research work has been done on this to begin to look at how we preserve those materials for access in the future - noting, as well, that those materials will form the base for some of the multimedia productions that will be emerging in the future. So there's a lovely tie-in of the past and the future directions in that.
The Canadian Conservation Institute promotes proper care and preservation of Canada's movable cultural heritage and conducts research in conservation science and technology. It is a special operating agency, as I've mentioned. Its activities are a combination of direct, hands-on treatment and research services. Last year more than 30 major research projects were under way and there were 285 direct client service requests.
There have been a number of articles on CCI treatments in the last while. It's very painstaking work, and I know that Bill would be happy to arrange visits to the institute for anyone who's interested in seeing the facility. I recommend it highly, if you have time. It's a wonderful resource, and it is recognized as being world class in the international associations that deal in this area.
I should mention that its research is diffuse throughout the world. It is not available simply to Canadian institutions.
Its clients include public museums, galleries, and archives, as well as the provinces and professional associations. As part of the outcome of its research activity, it presents seminars and publishes scientific analyses and papers.
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As a special operating agency, it does have a certain requirement to generate revenue, to recover some of its costs. One of its priorities at this point is to examine how best to do that while maintaining its essential mandate with respect to the community.
Secondly, it is looking at strategic alliances with the national museums, which have their own hands-on conservation facilities, although they are not as involved in research.
I come lastly - and of course I would like to say ``most importantly'' - to the Canadian Heritage Information Network. We are a national clearing-house for information about Canadian museum collections. One of the things we have been doing for 20 years is building national inventories of Canadian museum collections, which now represent approximately 25 million objects held in Canadian museums. We now make that available via the Internet.
We're a special operating agency, as well.
We're working with a number of institutions across Canada to add information that is more interpretive for audiences, such as schools, through the SchoolNet program.
I have invited you to Bill's institute. For those of you who are interested, I would also be more than happy to arrange demonstrations of the on-line services, the virtual exhibits, or any of the databases.
At this point we're working very closely with the museum community to try to expand their audiences and to expand the ways in which they can reach them. The term ``museums without walls'' is one of the terms that have been used to describe that effort.
We had a marvellous project that we did with France at Christmastime, which was on Christmas traditions in Canada and France, which included participation within Canada by the Provincial Museum of Alberta and the Musée canadien des civilisations in Quebec, the provincial museum, and the Musée des arts et traditions populaires in France. It was an international and interprovincial collaboration within Canada with which we were very pleased.
Our mission is to broker effective access, so we're working very closely with a number of new technologies in an attempt to stay current and to make the best possible use of the technologies that are available.
I don't know why in this deck this part went on and on. I won't do that. I'll come back to that. I'll be happy to give any of you a demonstration. That must have reflected personal bias on my part.
Mr. Chairman, have you heard enough? Are you ready to ask questions at this point?
The Chairman: I think so, yes. Maybe the rest can come out through questions.
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Sure. We'll do that.
The Chairman: We'll start with
[Translation]
the Official Opposition. Mr. Leroux, you have ten minutes.
Mr. Leroux (Richmond - Wolfe): On a point of information on page 9: concerning the long-term financial stability for non-profit art organizations, have you done an evaluation of the impact of the Health minister's announcement concerning tobacco publicity in the areas of trade, art and culture? Have any studies been developed on that subject?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Yes, we are doing some work on that. I'll ask my colleague, Ms Perrier, to answer that question.
Ms Denise Perrier (Director General, Arts Policy Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage): Mr. Leroux, there have been a lot of studies on that question more particularly to try to identify how much tobacco publicity is worth in the area of the arts.
You certainly know that a number of consultations undertaken by the Canadian Conference of the Arts in cooperation with the Department of Health and ourselves, were undertaken across Canada to listen to the views of the health community and the arts community. These consultations are actually ending this week. However, there will be a few next week and recommendations will be tabled with both ministers.
At the same time, we have developed strategies with a view to responding to the conclusions that will be published.
Mr. Leroux: So you've already set up some strategies?
.1130
Ms Perrier: Not yet, of course. We're still examining the question. We're trying to evaluate the whole matter and listen to the different communities. We will then determine what's to be done on a case by case basis.
Mr. Leroux: If I understand your schedule targets, the report and the recommendations are imminent.
Ms Perrier: That's right.
Mr. Leroux: Will it be possible to get that report? Will the committee be able to get a copy?
Ms Perrier: The report on the consultations?
Mr. Leroux: Yes.
Ms Perrier: I think that document will be made public. I'll have to check with my colleague from the Canadian Conference of the Arts. If it's available, you'll surely be sent a copy.
Mr. Leroux: We'd very much like to have one.
Ms Perrier: Yes, of course.
The Chairman: If you send it to Mr. Leroux, we'll then be able to circulate it to the members of the committee through our Clerk.
Mr. Arseneault (Restigouche - Chaleur): Mr. Chairman, I'm not aware of that study, but it may not be a public document if it's to go directly to the minister and the department. However, if it is a public document, we will of course have it circulated to all the committee members.
Mr. Leroux: We make it a matter of principle that there should be no censorship as these are public hearings.
On page 10 of your brief, you mention the information highway.
Are there any funds set aside for the information highway? No matter how hard I look at Part III of the Estimates, I still can't identify any budget set aside for the information highway. Are there pages missing?
Did we set aside funds only for the Department of Industry and its technology while nothing was provided for Canadian content? Or was it impossible to identify that budget and set aside an item for it somewhere?
Ms Perrier: Right now, we do have the possibility of spending money. As I mentioned earlier, our traditional industries are producing more and more of their content in a multimedia format and they can get a certain amount going through our department.
It is also true that the Department of Industry has set aside some funds to maintain projects such as a network for the schools.
Mr. Leroux: Could you be more specific about the amounts you're mentioning?
Ms Perrier: In our budget, we do have a program for cultural support, of course. The companies and corporations producing film in that area have access to subsidies. But publishers are producing multimedia products more and more by themselves.
Mr. Leroux: For the information highway? We're talking about the information highway.
Ms Perrier: The information highway is a rather broad term. These products are available through stand alone units and more and more through the Web.
I'd like to give the floor to my colleague, Ms Baldwin, who has worked more specifically in the areas of broadcasting and the information highway.
[English]
Ms Susan Baldwin (Director General, Broadcasting Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage): Here it's important to recognize that the information highway is not something that is entirely new that will require totally new products. As Lyn has said, many of the products that are available now will be used, whether this be on telephone networks, cable networks, or satellite networks.
That content exists now. It exists to be put together in different formats.
Programs are currently available to stimulate the development of content from within the department, and these programs will continue.
We expect to see the utilization of that content continue, perhaps in different ways, with new technologies, as part of new kinds of businesses, all of which can in addition be stimulated through the regulatory process and the requirements from the private sector for Canadian programming on the information highway.
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It's important to add that one of the policies the government put forward in the Order in Council outlining policy for the information highway was that all participants on the information highway should make an equitable and appropriate contribution to the development of programming. So it is a very general requirement for all participants, whether they're technology-driven or content-driven.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I'd now like to look at something a lot of people have been waiting for impatiently: copyright. Last week, your colleagues announced that a bill would soon be tabled on copyright. There was talk about mid-april and we also know the department has been preparing phase 3 of the bill.
I'd like to be sure this will be done mid-april. Also, what are the scheduling targets for stage 3 of this bill?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I can answer the first part of your question. Work is moving right along on that and we hope we'll be able to table the bill soon. I don't dare give you a specific date, but I can say that the work has been progressing quite well.
As for stage 3, I can give you a broad answer. I think Ms Copps will be able to give you more details when she arrives. Because of the new technologies and ways of reproducing products, the problem is to give assurances that copyright will always be protected.
There's a study which says that in general, copyright is protected even if there is new technology available today. But, in the light of our experience, we should continue examining the legislation with an eye on the technology to ensure all necessary protection for the authors and the consumers.
As for the timeframe, we mainly have to examine the development of the technology and determine whether an answer is required or not.
Mr. Leroux: Are you looking at extending neighbouring rights to audio-visual during stage 3?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I don't know and I'd ask you to wait for my colleague to get an answer to that question.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Harper, do you have any questions at this time?
Mr. Harper (Simcoe Centre): No, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: I will turn to the government side.
Mr. O'Brien.
Mr. O'Brien (London - Middlesex): I appreciated the presentation.
On the Canadian content laws, it is 30% in music. Is that what it is for information? Is that what it is for TV? What is the content law for TV?
Ms Baldwin: In general, for Canadian broadcasting stations it's 60% Canadian content. For radio stations it's 30%. Then there are the specialty channels, which differ depending on the nature of the channel itself and the availability of the Canadian content. Those can range from 5% for a movie channel, for example, to 100% when it's weather or news.
Mr. O'Brien: So a local Canadian TV station has to carry 60% Canadian content.
Ms Baldwin: That's correct.
Mr. O'Brien: I've heard some debate, during the neighbours rights discussions I've been part of, about whether these levels are too high or are not high enough. I'd like to get your view on that. Has there been any consideration of those? If you would prefer it, I could ask the minister that. I don't know whether or not there's active consideration of those levels.
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Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Susan, has that come up in any of the particular hearings?
Ms Baldwin: Not specifically. There is always a question as to the level of Canadian content and if the level is correct. To some degree it depends on whether you're asking the Canadian music industry or the broadcasters.
However, initially when the 30% level was set, that resulted in a very significant repetition of music on radio, because there was not a significant base of Canadian content available to be played. As a result of the 30% content requirement on radio, we have certainly seen a significant level of content coming along. We've seen artists achieving international status because they have the play time.
It is something the CRTC considers when considering licences - more and more this is so with specialties - and it is something we will be looking at again, according to the overall level of available Canadian content.
Mr. O'Brien: You just made a reference to the CRTC. As a fairly new member of Parliament, I'm still coming to grips with that.
Mauril is saying he's even newer.
Mr. Bélanger (Ottawa - Vanier): I'm not the rookie any more.
Mr. O'Brien: He's not the rookie any more. We now have five new rookies on our side and one on that side.
I'm trying to come to grips with the CRTC. I think the public in general does not understand it, its functioning, or the parameters for its functioning.
How often is there a review? Is there a built-in review of the CRTC guidelines or parameters and how that relationship with government works? Is there an ongoing review of that? Is there something pending, or is it done on an as-needed basis?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: It's fair to say that over the last 10 or 15 years government has undertaken a very significant number of reviews of agencies and the relationships with agencies, through various reviews associated with the Financial Administration Act. It's also fair to say that within the context of program review we continue to look at the role of agencies, and - I'm narrowing down here - within the context of the information highway and the new environment that will be needed to respond to the information highway. So the role of the CRTC will have to be one of the areas considered in that overall review.
Mr. O'Brien: For my own information, I wonder if I could request any information on the CRTC that you might have, in terms of what are its guidelines and responsibilities, etc. I would appreciate something on that.
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: A background briefing on the CRTC?
Mr. O'Brien: Yes. I would appreciate that.
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: We will be more than happy to arrange that.
Mr. O'Brien: The question of tax incentives has come up several times as we've been going through these reviews. It's an area that I think needs to be explored much more by the government. If my understanding is correct, the private sector in Canada falls far behind other countries - for example, the United States - in its funding of the arts. You made a general comment, I believe, indicating that this is being looked at, but can you give us any specifics as to how we can better convince the private sector that they're going to have to fund the arts to a higher degree than they do now?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: We certainly have some measures in place currently that provide sufficient tax relief, if you will, and over the years there has been growth in this area.
Two of my colleagues have been undertaking studies in this area. I will ask, first, Charles if he can speak to some of the background work that's been done in respect of heritage institutions, and then Madame Perrier in response to the arts area.
Mr. Charles Gruchy (Director General, Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage): In terms of heritage institutions, measures introduced in the budget raised the tax benefits from 20% to 50%. It also affects the arts.
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We are looking at the possibility of creating a special fund for donations to heritage institutions. It would allow heritage institutions across the country to receive the same kinds of tax benefits as the national museums. We're looking at that. We're exploring a variety of possibilities and of course consulting with other departments, Finance, Justice, Revenue - the ones that are interested in that kind of thing.
Ms Perrier: I would just like to add that in the budget, as you are aware, there have been some changes. Mr. Gruchy mentioned one. The other one is for gifts that attract capital gain, such as art objects or stocks. The ceiling has been increased by an additional 50%. It now totals 100%. For gifts that are made through a will or in the year of the person's death, the ceiling is increased to 100% of that person's net income.
To answer your question about other measures that are being looked at, yes, it's an ongoing issue for us in the cultural development sector and we will continue to work to that effect in order to ensure better participation from the private sector.
Mr. O'Brien: I have one last question. It's about public education. Education is my own background so I always find myself wondering what various agencies and departments do around public education. What's your distribution list like for this kind of information? It's very important and useful information. How do you disseminate this information? I'm of the view that to a large extent the general public still doesn't understand agencies such as the CRTC. Can you give me a little overview of the public education component?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I think you're accurate. Our mailing lists within the department tend generally to be for our direct clients. One of the initiatives we're currently exploring within the department is a departmental Internet site, which will allow us to post, in a very cost-effective manner, a variety of documents. They would be accessible to anyone with access to an Internet account. At the last count I saw, that was well over a million Canadians.
The Chairman: I will now open the questioning to members.
[Translation]
Mr. Leroux: I'd now like to get to the question of foreign investment policies. Since the Ginn affair, we've been waiting for a policy on foreign investment, especially in the area of books. I think an ad hoc committee was set up made up of Ms Copps, Mr. Manley and Mr. Eggleton. Could you tell us anything about the work in progress of that ad hoc committee?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Not really. I would ask you to put that question to the minister who sits on that committee. I can only say that the work done by the officials in the area of research is going along well. Ms Copps is the person responsible and I think she'll be here soon. You may think that I'm trying to not answer your questions, but that's not the case. I just don't know enough about that question to give you an exact answer.
Mr. Leroux: Is Mr. Rabinovitch coming alone? And Ms Copps also?
The Chairman: Mr. Rabinovitch is coming with Ms Copps.
Mr. Leroux: I have another question but I get the impression I'll be referred to Mr. Rabinovitch again.
Last November 23, the government announced its intention of requiring a 33.33% for foreign ownership. Yesterday, Mr. Manley seemed quite surprised to hear it had not yet been done because he thought it had. Actually, there has been no official announcement or decision. Why didMr. Manley think it had already been done?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: The work is progressing and we're waiting for the final decision.
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Mr. Leroux: It should be pointed out to Mr. Manley that the decision is not yet out. We'll be awaiting the arrival of Mr. Rabinovitch.
The Chairman: Mr. Bélanger.
Mr. Bélanger: Mr. Chairman, I have a few questions on many different subjects, but I'm not sure that the people here will be able to answer.
[English]
The arts bank: what's happening?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I know Ms Perrier has been following this dossier very closely. I'll let her give you chapter and verse on that.
Mr. Bélanger: It's a short question.
Ms Perrier: Yes, but it's a long answer.
[Translation]
May I answer in French?
Mr. Bélanger: Please do.
Ms Perrier: As you know, the Canada Council has examined the recommendations made to it by a committee it had set up last year. The Council announced a few months ago, I think it was in January, the creation of a program within its programs to fund the purchase of works of art. I checked this morning as to the progress made by the Council on this issue and I can report that no final decision has been made. As for the rest of the collection and its management, I know the board is to look at those questions during its next meeting.
Mr. Bélanger: From what I last saw in the newspapers, there were thoughts about selling it to a Montreal group, I think, who then would be able to sell off about 5% of the collection every year to fund yearly operations. It's sort of like selling the furniture to save the house.
Ms Perrier: It's the Hermès proposal.
Mr. Bélanger: Is that a serious proposal?
Ms Perrier: Many proposals were put forth, Mr. Bélanger, four or five, I believe. As I was saying, I don't know the position of the Canada Council or its Board on that. I know this was tabled and we're waiting for the Board's decision.
Mr. Bélanger: Is the intention to keep the art bank in the National Capital or to let it go?
Ms Perrier: I can't answer that. I know that the Canada Council is looking very seriously at the whole matter and that the decision will not be lightly made.
Mr. Bélanger: Maybe we should change the subject because I don't think we'll be going much further on this one.
Let's talk about the NFB,
[English]
the National Film Board.
Much as I try to defend the national capital from being piecemealed and transferred and moved across the country, the same principle would apply to other institutions that are located in other cities. The recommendations about moving chunks of the National Film Board to Toronto, for instance, closing down and so forth.... I want to know if the actual survival or viability of the Film Board is in question and whether or not the impact on the Montreal economy has been considered.
I know there are government decisions that have an impact. We are cutting back funds. I'm not challenging that decision, but within that decision could some decisions be made that would have a lesser impact than is currently being considered?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Certainly the minister has made very clear her support for the institution, and in the review of recommendations that will go on certainly very careful consideration will be given to the impact in any given community. You've raised it in connection with the NFB, but that's very much a consideration in any of the program decisions that are taken. So it's fair to say that will be a very active factor in the considerations.
Mr. Bélanger: Can you elaborate a bit?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: No.
I don't wish to evade, but I think Ms Copps would be more than happy to respond to that question when she appears, and my belief is she will be here after Easter.
The Chairman: Yes, she's supposed to be here.
Mr. Bélanger: I'm striking out. Three strikes and I'm out. Here comes my third question.
Multimedia: that's the hot trend. It's also a trend Canadians and Canada are very well positioned to take advantage of. Generally speaking, we seem to have done rather well in developing the hardware of the
[Translation]
inforoute, a word we should perhaps be using.
[English]
and we're now positioned to try to feed it. There are consumers at the other end and we have to feed this. I gather that it doesn't require massive investment for that to happen.
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I've noticed in the past that some quite substantial investments have been announced by Disney - in both Vancouver and Toronto, if I recall properly. I'd like to know what the policy framework around that is, to encourage Canadians to feed this soon-to-be monster that's going to be gobbling everything it can.
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: In the reports of the advisory committee on the information highway there were a number of recommendations that touched on the creation of Canadian content. This department is working with other departments to elaborate the response to that report.
Within this sector, about two years ago a fund was established that supported new media productions. That was done in collaboration with Industry Canada and was available to publishers working in partnership with the educational community. They were required to have direct participation by, I think, one of two provinces at the time.
So there had been support in that particular area.
At this point this is being looked at as one of the extensions of traditional cultural production within Canada. We certainly have been doing some research on the current state of the industry. One of the immediate issues is that the industry is so dynamic that the statistics on the state of the industry are extremely unreliable, and therefore defining the needs of an industry that would be the framework or basis on which one would develop a policy response is hard.
At this point we're trying to refine statistics. There are a number of good -
Mr. Bélanger: Who in the department is in charge of that?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: This is an area in which we've actually taken a very collaborative approach, because it cuts across the sector.
Mr. Bélanger: But you're telling me that in the department it's diffuse?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Within the department, it is the cultural sector. Within the cultural sector, this very clearly touches broadcasting, because of the extent to which there will be interactive multimedia within the broadcasting environment; it touches cultural industries, because of the extent to which traditional cultural industries are now entering into this field; it touches heritage, because of the extent to which heritage institutions are now seeking to make their products known through these media; it touches arts policy, because of the extent to which new art forms are emerging in this area, and use of these media by cultural institutions. So what we have in the sector is a working group that ensures that we are keeping track of the work that's going on.
Mr. Bélanger: So there is a working group. Who heads it?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I head that working group.
Mr. Peric (Cambridge): Ms Sherwood, on page 13 it says that the key priority is the creation of a cost-recovery system. Could you elaborate on how you're going to accomplish that and what impact that will have on new science and technology within that department?
[Translation]
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Do you mean the Heritage Branch?
[English]
Mr. Peric: The Conservation Institute.
[Translation]
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: The technical service provided me with two totally different versions. So I'll ask Bill Peters, the expert from the Canadian Conservation Institute, to answer your question.
[English]
Mr. Bill Peters (Director General, Canadian Conservation Institute, Department of Canadian Heritage): If I might just ask for a clarification, I wasn't quite sure of the exact nature of the question you were getting at.
Mr. Peric: You said there was the creation of a cost-recovery system.
Mr. Peters: Oh yes.
Mr. Peric: Could you elaborate a little bit on that?
Mr. Peters: Yes, of course.
As Lyn mentioned in her opening remarks, the Canadian Conservation Institute is mandated to provide services to heritage institutions, the institutions across Canada that maintain permanent collections of cultural heritage objects. Our mandate at the moment is to provide those services for those clients at no charge.
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What we are looking at, however, in light of the reductions in our budgets, as is the case with most agencies of government these days, is means by which we can supplement or replace, if I can put it that way, the reductions in our budget by generating cost recovery for some of the services.
I might add, by the way, that we're about halfway through a planning process that will lead to a cost-recovery program for us.
The two avenues we're exploring are dealing with different clients for services or information that we could provide them on a cost-recovery basis. I can give you a couple of examples of what I mean by ``new clients''. In the international arena there are many countries and many organizations and agencies that need or can use the kind of information we've developed in the Canadian Conservation Institute, and we propose to explore those markets and generate revenue by providing services or products or information to those kinds of clients. In Canada, outside of our traditional mandated clients, which are the public institutions that hold the collections, other institutions and agencies have a need for and can profit from the sort of information and advice and expertise we can provide.
So outside of our mandated clients, we would look at providing those kinds of services if those clients are prepared to pay for the services we would provide.
That's basically the cost-recovery approach we're pursuing. We propose, at least at this moment, to continue, in the field of our mandated clients, the traditional services and products we've provided to them, and to continue to provide those on a no-cost basis if we're able to generate sufficient revenues from our other products and services and other clientele, in order to support the continuation of that role for our institute.
[Translation]
The Chairman: Mr. Leroux, I think you have to leave.
Mr. Leroux: Yes, unfortunately, I do have to leave. I would have like to wait for Mr. Rabinovitch, but I can't. I'd like to thank you for your presentation and apologize for having to leave. Ms Copps will be here soon but I unfortunately cannot let you put my questions to her. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Leroux.
[English]
Mr. Peric.
Mr. Peric: According to Statistics Canada, exports of Canadian domestically produced arts are $41 million. At the same time the export of arts not originating in Canada is $34 million. There are 88,915 professional visual artists in Canada. Many of them are probably taxi drivers in Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal.
Is there any plan or idea to promote, to educate, not only the members you have on the mailing lists but the general Canadian public and the international community about Canadian arts and the Canadian cultural community? And does NAFTA have any impact, especially a negative impact, on the Canadian cultural industry?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: I will separate out the arts question. There has been a fair amount of work generally through the cultural associations, such as the Canadian Conference of the Arts, to create greater awareness of the presence of wonderful Canadian works and the products of Canadian arts people and craftspersons.
Mr. Peric: How far are they reaching?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Denise, can you give specific details about what CCA may have been doing in this area?
Ms Perrier: Yes. The CCA represents about 20,000 individual artists and several hundreds of service organizations across the country. We have been partnering with this umbrella organization for a number of years.
They have ramifications across the country. They are very active in keeping their members in the loop. They are also doing a lot of communications with the local media, to ensure there is an awareness of what's happening in the country.
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At the departmental level we're aware of that situation and we're doing little things. We're helping service organizations network together, hook up the information they have, to facilitate what they're supposed to do, which is to communicate with their members and with the public.
We're involved at different levels, and as I said, CCA is our major partner in this.
Mr. Peric: How about the international community?
Ms Elliot-Sherwood: Through the Department of Foreign Affairs there is an active promotion of Canadian arts and performing artists abroad. That program has been under way for quite some time.
I happened to meet yesterday with our embassy in Washington. They, for example, have just initiated a new publication called Snapshots, which goes to thousands of travel operators and professional associations across the United States. It includes information about Canadian cultural events and Canadian cultural products, for example. Within the embassy site they mount exhibits that are available and that showcase Canadian talent.
There is a similar tourism element in all the embassies. We work in very close collaboration with that division of Foreign Affairs to ensure Canadian cultural products are promoted abroad.
I think my colleague would like to add something on broadcasting.
Ms Baldwin: Not broadcasting in particular but all of the arts and culture.
Within Foreign Affairs there is an international business strategy, and one major component of that is arts and culture. There is actually a document.... We're in the initial phases of that. A first publication has been issued. A couple of weeks ago there was a first meeting of all the potential partners, audio-visual artists, broadcasters, and the full range of the arts and culture groups. They met to start to develop a true strategy and action plan for how to put that into place. That's certainly a document we would be pleased to make available to all of the members.
Mr. Peric: Are the artists aware of that action?
Ms Baldwin: Certainly representatives of major associations were at this initial meeting. That is one way of distributing that message. We hope they will carry it back through their associations.
Ms Perrier: May I just add that the department is also working very closely with the Department of Foreign Affairs on the articulation of the third pillar of the foreign policy Foreign Affairs has come up with. We have developed a number of bridging committees to work on that principle of awareness, among others.
The Chairman: We now have Mr. Rabinovitch, who has just joined us.
Mr. Rabinovitch, thanks for coming. We appreciate it.
I should mention to you that, unfortunately, the member from the official opposition, the vice-chairman of the committee, had to leave, and Mr. Abbott, who leads the Reform Party in the committee, couldn't be here today; he has been replaced by Mr. Harper.
I will turn the floor over for questions to you or to Mrs. Katz. Members have covered a wide spectrum of questions. A few were left over for you and Mrs. Katz by Mr. Leroux of the Bloc, but unfortunately he had to leave. I will check with the government side to see if they have a question.
Mr. Bélanger: We can report to Mr. Rabinovitch that you've done such a wonderful job that we're fresh out of questions.
An hon. member: He may not be needed.
Mr. Victor Rabinovitch (Assistant Deputy Minister, Cultural Development and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage): Mr. Chairman, I turn fifty in a matter of months. Perhaps I can take advantage of the government's good treatment of elderly public servants and I'll leave.
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The Chairman: Mr. Rabinovitch, when the minister is here I presume some of the officials such as yourself will be present to answer any specific questions Mr. Leroux might have then. The minister is due to come on April 25, I believe, or maybe April 23. We've asked for April 23. I imagine she will talk about the estimates, among other things.
Mr. Rabinovitch: First, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you, and through you the members of the committee, for being indulgent towards myself and Mrs. Katz. As you know, we were called elsewhere to be with the minister.
Yes, the minister can have officials with her. It's simply a matter of being organized between yourself and her staff. No doubt you'll want to have her concentrate on the department as a whole and not merely on this one sector.
The Chairman: I appreciate this. I just wondered if by any chance questions Mr. Leroux specifically asked for today...whether somebody from your department would be here just in case it was needed.
[Translation]
Mr. Rabinovitch: Mr. Leroux told me he only had 200 or 300 questions for me.
[English]
The Chairman: Mr. Rabinovitch, Mrs. Katz, Mrs. Elliot-Sherwood, and all your colleagues, I really appreciate your presence here and your willingness to give us information. Thank you very much for coming today.
The meeting is adjourned.