:
Good afternoon, everyone. I call this meeting to order.
[English]
Welcome to meeting number 10 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.
[Translation]
Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, November 25, 2021, and members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.
[English]
Given the ongoing pandemic situation, and in the light of the recommendations from health authorities, to remain healthy and safe all those attending the meeting in person should follow the directives of the Board of Internal Economy.
[Translation]
I thank the members in advance for their cooperation.
For those of you who are attending virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.
First, you may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either Floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.
Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. Please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself.
Those in the room, your microphones will be controlled as usual by the proceedings and verification officer.
When speaking, do as I do and speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mic should be on mute.
[English]
Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me immediately. Please note that we might need to suspend for a few minutes to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.
[Translation]
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on Wednesday, December 15, 2021, the committee is undertaking its study on the importance of official languages at Air Canada.
I would now like to welcome our witnesses from Air Canada, who are participating in the meeting by video conference. They are Michael Rousseau, President and Chief Executive Officer; Marc Barbeau, Executive Vice President and Chief Legal Officer; and David Rheault, Vice President, Government and Community Relations.
Mr. Rousseau, you will have a maximum of five minutes for your remarks, after which we will have a series of questions. I will signal to you when you have about one minute of speaking time left.
The floor is yours, Mr. Rousseau.
:
Members of the Committee, good afternoon.
[English]
Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today on the work of the committee on official languages. I am accompanied today by Marc Barbeau, our executive vice-president and chief legal officer, and David Rheault, our vice-president, government and community relations.
I would have liked to deliver more of my opening remarks in both official languages, but my ability to speak French is not yet equal to the effort I've been investing into learning it.
On November 3, during a scrum before the Chamber of Commerce of Metropolitan Montreal, I regret having made a statement that was insensitive to the status of French. I have apologized for my comments, and I have been taking French lessons ever since.
[Translation]
I'm sorry. I apologize once again, and I take responsibility for my remarks. I regret the impact that my remarks have had on our employees, who serve our clients in both official languages every day.
[English]
I say to Canadians, and to Quebeckers in particular, that I am sincere in my commitment to advance Air Canada's official language efforts. I've also reinforced this commitment to our employees and to the management team.
[Translation]
Air Canada has a special connection with Canadians. We understand our responsibility with regard to bilingualism and our obligation to provide service to our clients and to communicate with them in both official languages.
[English]
Air Canada embraces the unique expectations of bilingualism and is doing its utmost to ensure we meet them.
We have an ambitious language action plan adopted in 2020. We have established our own language learning programs to help our employees improve their language skills and use French in serving our clients. We have always prioritized the hiring of bilingual employees. In fact, almost half of our employees who serve our customers are bilingual.
[Translation]
At Air Canada, serving our clients in both official languages is a priority.
[English]
Like with many of our corporate priorities, over the decade leading up to the pandemic, we had made strides in improving our track record on official languages. Our linguistic services team maintains regular communications with the commissioner’s office, and we work with them to treat complaints diligently.
In addition, in 2020, we filed our 2020-23 action plan and have since put in place a cross-functional management committee to monitor and co-ordinate the initiatives stemming from that plan.
I am pleased to share with you today that Air Canada is implementing new measures to improve and strengthen its commitment to bilingualism. Thanks to our employees who shared their suggestions and perspective helping us develop these new initiatives.
[Translation]
We have announced additional measures to reinforce bilingualism at Air Canada.
[English]
As we emerge from the pandemic, we will continue to increase our efforts to consult with employees, and to mobilize our teams to improve our approach and initiatives. Again, I hope my mistake, which I have taken full responsibility for, does not take away from the hard work of our dedicated employees who work every day to serve our customers in the language of their choice.
I am very proud to be Air Canada’s CEO. I have worked for 14 years with this company’s great people. I know that the challenges we faced during those years prepared me to lead them in what has been a very difficult and uncertain period for the industry. Canada needs a vibrant, global airline. We will work tirelessly to rebuild it for all Canadians as we recover from the pandemic.
Embracing linguistic duality and bilingualism is a responsibility of ours, a matter of pride and principle, and a sign of respect for Canada and all Canadians.
Bilingual service is aligned with our business objectives, and it is also proudly part of our brand and identity. Mostly due to the complexity of our business, sometimes we do not meet our aspirations. We know we can do better.
[Translation]
I am determined to do better, and I know I have the support of the entire Air Canada team.
Thank you for your attention.
[English]
I am now available to answer your questions.
First of all, Mr. Rousseau, I'd like to thank and congratulate you for your effort to address us in French. It's entirely laudable. My comment doesn't concern your ability to learn French. Since I take English immersion courses virtually every season, I can understand your situation. Please rest assured that I'm not directing my questions to you as an individual but rather as the president and chief executive officer of Air Canada.
You saw the scope of the impact of the remarks you made to journalists during a media scrum following a conference at the Chamber of Commerce of Metropolitan Montreal. That raised some serious question marks in people's minds, my own included.
Before continuing, I'd like to warn you that, given our limited time, I'm going to ask you questions in quick succession and to interrupt you at certain points. I don't mean to be rude. Don't take it personally; I just want some answers to my questions.
You say you want to do better on bilingualism at Air Canada. However, for the past 45 years, most commissioners of official languages have shown that French is a systemic problem throughout the business. I'll grant that you haven't held your position for 45 years, but, as president, you're taking measures and you want to do better on bilingualism. The first question I'd like to ask you is this: how many unilingual francophone members sit on Air Canada's board of directors?
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As you know, you operate under the Official Languages Act, and I believe you're required to allow your employees the opportunity to speak in both official languages.
If the board works solely in English, and if the president of Air Canada makes comments like the ones you made in Montreal last November, you can understand that that troubles us.
There's been a systemic problem at Air Canada for 45 years, but the pilot, as it were, doesn't seem concerned about it. If neither you nor the board uses French, how can respect for the French language be transmitted down the chain of employees and to Air Canada's operations as a whole?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I too want to congratulate the president of Air Canada for his efforts to speak French. I will never judge anyone because he does or doesn't have an accent. We should celebrate our accents, and Lord knows there are a lot of them, even in the francophone world.
Mr. Rousseau, you may delegate this question to someone who can answer it. I'm mainly interested in the services that Air Canada provides to its clients.
What procedures does Air Canada put in place to ensure it serves consumers in English and in French?
When employees are unable to serve them in both official languages, what internal processes are in place to ensure the issue is resolved?
:
Mr. Chairman, I will take that question, and if needed, I will refer to David.
At our call centres, customers would indicate whether they wanted to be served in French or English. That would go to a call centre employee who can speak that respective language. At the airport, if a customer approaches one of our staff, and that staff cannot speak French, they say, “Un moment s'il vous plaît”, and they go find a French-speaking employee.
If there's no one around, or if it can't be done in time, we have a special number for that employee to call, so that a bilingual agent can speak to that customer and rectify the issue. In the aircraft, with our flight attendants, we have a very sophisticated manpower planning system that puts a bilingual flight attendant, at least one bilingual flight attendant, on every flight. That's a requirement. Again, on the plane, if customers speak to an English-only-speaking flight attendant, that flight attendant does say, “Un moment s'il vous plaît”, and finds the bilingual flight attendant to respond to those customers in the language of their choice.
Mr. Chairman, I'll ask David to make any other comments.
:
Allow me to provide some additional information, Mr. Drouin.
Non-compliance with the act doesn't necessarily occur because many flights aren't high-demand. Our policy is to assign bilingual personnel to all flights no matter whether they're high- or low-demand.
Regional carriers such as Jazz, which is one of our regional partners, operate flights with only one flight attendant since the regions are mainly served by smaller aircraft. Jazz has instituted a personnel assignment system to ensure that bilingual attendants are on all high-demand flights.
There may be operational problems, as you mentioned. For example, if flight attendants are unable to get to work on time as a result of inclement weather, we call in a reserve attendant who's bilingual. If no reserve bilingual flight attendants are available, we may be forced to assign a unilingual attendant to a flight at the last minute. We've received complaints about this and immediately checked to see whether those situations were caused by what we call extraordinary unforeseen circumstances.
Mr. Rousseau, the board announced on November 9 that you were starting intensive French-language training. When you were appointed to your position, Le Journal de Montréal asked whether you spoke French. Your representative answered that you had been living in Quebec since 2007, that you were functionally proficient in oral French and that you were constantly improving.
Were you aware of that statement, and did you approve it? Also, do you think that giving out false information is a good strategy?
I'd like to hear your comments on that point.
When you said you had always been able to live in Montreal without speaking French and that that was a testament to the city, weren't you simply reflecting what the Official Languages Act states, that people must have the right to be served and to work in English or French, even in Quebec?
We know that approximately 30% of anglophones in Quebec don't speak French.
Ultimately, don't you think you were simply reflecting a state of affairs that the Official Languages Act prescribes?
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I want to express my concerns. As we requested, today we have Mr. Rousseau, president and chief executive officer of Air Canada. We were expecting at least a minimum amount of effort on his part. However, half of his presentation wasn't in French, and none of his answers were either.
The purpose of this committee is to advocate the importance of French in Quebec and elsewhere in Canada, to ensure the administration of the Official Languages Act and to make sure that businesses and business sectors, including Air Canada, protect the use of French. Consequently, I want to tell you today that we're disappointed with Mr. Rousseau's presentation.
We have to look to the past, beyond last November to previous years, to help us understand the situation. As other members have said, Air Canada has demonstrated a systemic lack of respect for French. In 2016, former Commissioner of Official Languages Graham Fraser submitted to the committee a report in which he stated, “The vast majority of complaints are about language of service to the public.” He further noted, “Complainants also mention the negative attitude they get from Air Canada employees when they request service in French.”
Those lines were written in 2016. By the time, you'd been at the head of Air Canada for nearly 10 years. It's clear you still weren't taking what Mr. Fraser said seriously.
If that's the example you're setting, how can we expect Air Canada to respect French when providing its services?
:
Mr. Chair, in response to the question, let me say first of all that Air Canada very much respects both official languages and the Official Languages Act.
We do our best to adhere to all of the rules. As we've spoken about before to many commissioners, the complexity of our business and the volume of interactions we have with customers give rises to the highest number...versus other companies, but we're not comparable to other companies.
I can commit to you, certainly in my 14 years with Air Canada, that there has been continuous investment in trying to improve our performance. We hire every bilingual flight attendant we can possibly get, and we'd like to have more. We hire as many bilingual employees as possible outside of the province of Quebec, which is a challenge given the current situation.
This bilingualism and this approach to both official languages is part of our brand and part of our equity, and we take it very, very seriously. We promote bilingualism across Canada. We partner with many different organizations to promote the French language in all parts of Canada. Certainly it is my commitment that this will continue, and it will improve as we continually find better ways of delivering service in both official languages.
My question will be addressed to Mr. Rousseau.
Thank you so much for being here this afternoon. More importantly, we note that you've improved your French. We salute you for that and encourage you to carry on, as we want as many of our heads and directors as possible to be fluently bilingual in the very near future.
Mr. Rousseau, I'm interested in the services that are being offered to Canadians. There was a linguistic plan that was filed prior to 2020, because it covers the years 2020-23. Have you considered updates since that plan was filed? If so, what are they? If you have not, what are you planning to improve, or what are you planning to add to your next plan as we move forward?
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We filed the 2020-23 comprehensive plan built on three pillars: governance, service delivery and people. However, in November, I tasked two of our executive vice-presidents—one of whom was the official languages sponsor, our champion for Air Canada—to speak to our employees about what else we could do. Just recently, we sent a note out to all employees, indicating that we were going to put in three additional recommendations effective immediately.
First, from a focus perspective, we created a new official languages department. We think this will provide more focus. This department will report to the executive committee of the company—made up of me and five executive vice-presidents—on a regular basis on the progress that's being made in improving our performance.
Second, we've allocated more funds and more resources to more training.
Third, we created an incentive program. We created the dialogue award, which will be given to the person in the company who best promotes bilingualism. This will be on par with our service excellence, and it's the highest reward that we have at Air Canada. In addition to that, we are going to start paying our employees a special bonus if they refer a bilingual employee to Air Canada.
Again, those three measures have been put in place in the last week or two.
Mr. Rousseau, first I want to say that it's disappointing that you haven't learned French after nearly 15 years in Montreal. It's also very troubling that you answer the committee only in English.
I also want to outline our position. The federal government is obviously responsible for administering the Official Languages Act, and that's also part of the modernization of the act.
We discussed the fact that the act applies to Air Canada, but do you think the federal government should provide programs to support workers in the industry?
Also, if the Commissioner of Official Languages can impose monetary administrative sanctions on Air Canada, do you think it should have the authority to penalize other businesses in your sector as well?
:
Pardon me for interrupting, Mr. Rousseau. I'm going to ask you my question again, and if you don't know the answer, please send us those numbers. You no doubt have a file for every employee, and since you provide bilingual service, every employee should have a kind of ID indicating the languages he or she can speak.
So I'd like to know the number of francophone employees in Quebec and the other provinces. I don't mean those who speak French, but rather those who are considered francophone. That's very different. Someone who speaks French isn't necessarily francophone.
How many employees are identified in their employee files as francophone or have declared themselves francophone on their job application forms?
Furthermore, in spite of the initiatives under the Official Languages Action Plan 2020‑23, an average of 80 complaints a year have been filed against Air Canada, particularly for not actively offering bilingual service or failing to provide service in French.
How is Air Canada planning to correct these official language deficiencies and to make constant efforts to resolve them in the short and long terms?
:
Mr. Chairman, with respect to the first part of the question, we will provide the exact numbers on francophones. I don't have them right now. We'll provide a breakdown whichever way you would like it as soon as possible.
To the second part of the question regarding what we're doing about it, again, we have a very sophisticated and aggressive plan to train our employees in the second language and to hire as many bilingual personnel as we possibly can. We interact with francophone groups around the country to try to find that source of bilingual employees. It starts there. It starts with hiring a bilingual employee. To my earlier comments, that's why we're encouraged by the draft Bill , which speaks about enhancing immigration and education, because that would help us hire more bilingual employees so that a larger percentage of our staff would be bilingual.
But I would say to the question that we do have a large number of bilingual staff within the company: 50% of our customer-facing employees are bilingual, which I feel is a fairly strong number. It could certainly get better with some of the suggestions I just mentioned.
:
No, there's no need for Mr. Rheault to answer, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
I do have another question for you, though.
Ms. Lattanzio asked some questions earlier about your Linguistic Action Plan 2020‑2023. You said that complaints to the official languages commissioner were indicators. Mr. Rheault replied that audits of linguistic performance programs were carried out on a regular basis .
That's where the problem lies: you conduct regular audits. Has Air Canada demonstrated any rigour in ensuring respect for the French language? That's what's discouraging, Mr. Rousseau.
Can you tell us whether you have a restrictive program in place to get results? Earlier, you said that you were doing your utmost. That's all very well. Lots of companies are doing their utmost. But rather than "doing its utmost", your company needs to take action to achieve results. That's what's discouraging, Mr. Rousseau.
We are all working together. We have nothing against you personally, but we want to protect the French language. That's the nub of the issue, which came to the fore in your scrum.
So can you reassure us and tell us how, and with what tools, you're going to protect French and prevent its decline?
I'm delighted about the efforts you're making to learn French, but beyond the fact that you're going to take French courses, what, more than anything else, did this experience teach you about our country, which is bilingual and believes in protecting both official languages?
Secondly, what did it teach you about francophone minority communities, which are in decline in Quebec and outside Quebec, in places like London, Ontario, where I live?
What have you learned about the people who live in official language minority communities?
What would you do differently to support the survival of French in Canada?
In view of the picture you've given us, there seems to be a serious problem in finding bilingual applicants. This needs to be acknowledged and more far-reaching options need to be found, such as offering direct bonuses.
I'm also concerned about the fact that Air Canada intends to wait until the passage of the modernized Official Languages Act before hiring francophone employees, because that's still going to take a while, even though we hope it won't be too long. We are looking forward to being able to welcome francophone immigrants, for example. I think it's irresponsible for Air Canada to say something like that.
:
With due respect to you, we heard it several times.
Excuse me, but it's my turn to speak.
What we want to see are initiatives from Air Canada, paid for by Air Canada, to hire francophones not only in Quebec, but in the rest of Canada. Let's look at your brand name. Your airline is called Air Canada. I think that everyone around the world knows that Canada is a bilingual country.
We therefore expect Air Canada to improve its hiring practices and its services in French everywhere in Canada. We would like to see ideas like direct bonuses introduced, and more than the 13 hours of French-language instruction mentioned by Mr. Gourde. Air Canada is clearly going to have to take more forceful action.
This means that if we divide these 13 hours by 10, it's approximately 1.3 hours for each of the 10,000 employees. The way you're explaining it makes it even worse than before.
The 130,000 hours amount to approximately 20,000 hours of training spread over seven years. If there are 10 employees in a group, that means 10 hours of training. That leads me to conclude that there is no language training at Air Canada.
I am flabbergasted. I'm truly shocked.
:
It has nothing to do with confusion. The situation is even worse than I thought.
If a teacher gives an hour of training to a group of 20 employees, it means that an hour of training is calculated as 20 hours of training per employee. That means you can divide the 130,000 hours either by 10 employees or by 20 employees over seven years. You have to admit that doesn't amount to many hours of training per year.
Language courses at Air Canada amount to a lottery. It's really a lottery. There is virtually no language training at Air Canada.
That's it for me. I've had it. I really can't take any more of this.
I'll give the floor to my colleague.
The French language is a subject that generates highly emotional debate because of the decline in French.
Mr. Rousseau, I would like you to reassure us. I would simply like you to tell us what concrete measures will be taken as of now. Air Canada has been going in the wrong direction for 45 years now.
Why should we believe Air Canada now when it tells us that the problem has been solved, that is it is on track to achieve effective results that will stop the decline of the French language within the company and move it in the right direction?
Could you please reassure me?
I'd like to thank the Air Canada personnel and Mr. Rousseau for being here today.
As you did not have the opportunity to answer my colleague Mr. Godin's question, I'll continue in the same vein.
As you know, the past six months have been rather difficult. You have a plan, the Linguistic Action Plan 2020‑2023, and you are going to introduce measures to ensure that French is improved within your company. You gave a brief explanation of the activities introduced in response to the growing number of complaints in 2019.
What specific measures in terms of French resources and services are you currently taking under your linguistic action plan, and what measures do you intend to implement under the next linguistic action plan?
:
Mr. Chair, let me first of all confirm that even during the darkest days of the pandemic, we were still committed, and we continue to be committed, to training our employees in both official languages. That is one resource we never touched during the pandemic, given its importance to Air Canada and to Canada.
From a specific perspective, again, we have a rigorous 2020-23 plan. As I mentioned earlier, recently we introduced three new measures: more training hours, a separate department for official languages which reports directly to the executive committee, and a series of incentives to try to recruit more bilingual employees. Those are three specific measures that have just been introduced, in addition to the other measures that were introduced, like ambassadors at the different airports and a management committee that oversees the progress we're making on the Official Languages Act.
There are a series of different initiatives that have been put in place over the last several years to improve our performance.
:
Mr. Chair, certainly we would love to have a discussion with the relevant departments in the government about recruiting from countries. We have that dialogue already, and I think those discussions are progressing.
To your first point, we did bring back the majority of our staff. We were lucky that the majority of our staff came back to us after being off for some period of time. From our perspective, we did not lose any—maybe none—of our bilingual employees, which I think is a testament to the Air Canada focus on bilingualism.
To your point about a difficult labour market, I totally agree; it is a difficult labour market. Certainly we would look to speak to the Canadian government about opportunities to bring in additional bilingual people, and we would certainly provide them a job offer as a condition.
Thank you, Mr. Rousseau, for being here and spending time with us to discuss this very important topic.
Mr. Rousseau, I identified with your opening comment that your skills in the French language do not yet meet the effort you've put into it. I identify with that because, as a unilingual member of Parliament from Canada's west coast, I, too, feel that I need to learn French. I've been taking French lessons, and I know how difficult it is. It's a big challenge. Congratulations, and keep going.
Mr. Rousseau, the news of your unfortunate statement to the Montreal Chamber of Commerce last year made news even in British Columbia, where I'm from—a very unilingual British Columbia, I might add. It was news because people in B.C. are quite proud of being in a Canada that is bilingual and bicultural. I would say that is measured by how popular French immersion is in schools. There are just not enough chairs, not enough seats, not enough spaces available. If there's one thing that maybe comes out of this and your comments today, it's that there should be more emphasis put on French immersion, particularly when you're saying you can't even find enough employees who are bilingual. Perhaps that's a challenge for all of Canada,
Sir, you're saying that the bilingualism of Air Canada is important to you and to your company, but doesn't the inspiration for fulfilling a company's mandate and building on the strategic plan start from the top? How does your inability to speak fluent French impede your ability to inspire your employees?
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Van Popta.
I'm going to exercise my privilege as chair to ask a few questions that were raised in connection with the answers you gave to my colleagues. My colleague Mr. Francis Drouin has given me his speaking time.
First of all, in response to Mr. Godin's question, you said that staff who could not speak French, whether at the airport, the check‑in counter, or on the plane, had learned to say "Un moment s'il vous plaît".
Do you consider that to be service in French that complies with the Official Languages Act or do you measure service in French as a function of the time required for a customer to receive the requested service? It might take a minute, 15 minutes, or a half-hour before a francophone attendant can provide the service, and sometimes, the service is never received.
Given that the Official Languages Act requires Air Canada to provide equal service to anglophones and francophones, how do you measure service in French?
Mr. Rousseau, you said earlier that your record was improving. I asked you about what indicators you might have used as a basis to make this statement, and you mentioned the numbers reported by the Commissioner of Official Languages of Canada and other figures you might have used.
Can you tell me precisely what indicators you use? I'd like to remind you in passing that the data for the 2020 year and the 2021 year may be unreliable, because Air Canada was less active and there were far fewer passengers. It's therefore only to be expected that the number of complaints to the commissioner would have decreased during that period.
Can you tell me precisely which indicators you used as a basis for saying that your record was improving?
:
I apologize for interrupting, Mr. Rheault. I appreciate your presence with us today, but my question is for Mr. Rousseau.
He said that he had indicators showing that his record had improved. As president and chief executive officer, what were the indicators he used? Don't tell me that there were fewer passengers, because I understand that very well, and mentioned it in my question.
Mr. Rousseau, here is my question. On the basis of what specific indicators can you make that claim—you questioned some of the figures used by the commissioner—can you clarify this point? Your answer is very evasive, once again. Can you please give me an answer?
:
Mr. Rousseau, I know that you are full of good intentions.
Now, what I can claim is that the methods used in the past don't work. I'm dismayed, Mr. Rousseau, about the highly evasive answers given earlier. You spoke about hours of work, first over a year, and then over seven years, one hour per person, one hour per teacher, it was anything but convincing.
We would simply like to be reassured. Are you willing to make a commitment to the committee? Stop exploring possibilities, analyzing things and consulting your committees. Can you do something concrete and set something up that would yield the right solution?
I don't have the solution, Mr. Rousseau, but I would simply like you and your senior management to take the steps required to achieve short-term results. Can you commit to doing that before this committee today?
:
We measure demand for new flight routes. It's an exercise for airline companies. That's a very good question, because it's dynamic. Air Canada has much more than a single office in one region of Canada. Owing to the nature of its activities, its presence is global. Every time we offer a new route, we measure demand.
However, some flight routes are automatically identified in the act. This means every flight leaving from Montreal, all flights within Quebec, New Brunswick and Ontario, or between these three provinces, and all flights departing from Moncton and Ottawa, if my memory serves me correctly.
We can send the committee the list of automatically designated flight routes, the method for calculating significant demand for routes, not only for in-flight services, but also in airports.
It would be helpful if the committee were to implement these requirements for identifying francophone regions and to make them applicable to other air carriers.
:
Thank you, Ms. Lattanzio.
Mr. Rousseau, Mr. Rheault and Mr. Barbeau, thank you for having come before the committee today.
You agreed to send us a number of documents in connection with certain questions. If you think that other relevant information could be sent to us in writing, please do not hesitate to do so. Any documents that you might send will be received as evidence, even though it is subsequent to this meeting. So don't hesitate to do so.
Thanks to my colleagues. It was a good meeting.
The meeting is adjourned.