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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 1995
(Meeting No. 165)

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The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:00 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, for the purpose of electing a Chair and two Vice-Chairs, pursuant to Standing Order 106(1) and the Special Order of the House of Monday, September 18, 1995.

Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Pierre de Savoye, Roger Gallaway, Art Hanger, Gar Knutson, François Langlois, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Members present: Don Boudria for Paddy Torsney, Susan Whelan for Paddy Torsney and Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon.

Other Member present: Patrick Gagnon.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst, Patricia Begin and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

The Clerk of the Committee presided over the election of a Chair.

On motion of Jack Ramsay, it was agreed,--That Morris Bodnar do take the Chair of this Committee as Chair.

Accordingly, Morris Bodnar was duly elected Chair of the Committee.

Morris Bodnar took the Chair.

Jack Ramsay moved,--That election of the Vice-Chairs proceed by secret ballot.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

This motion is out of order. Nominations will be received and disposed of one at a time. (Beauchesne c. 788)

Whereupon Jack Ramsay appealed the decision of the Chair.

And the question being put on the decision, it was, by a show of hands, sustained: YEAS: 11; NAYS: 3.

Pierrette Venne moved,--That Sue Barnes be elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

Diana Ablonczy moved,--That Shaughnessy Cohen be elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

I declare that motion out of order because Shaughnessy Cohen is not a permanent member of the Committee.

Art Hanger moved,--That Gar Knutson be elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

Gar Knutson declined.

The question being put on the motion of Pierrette Venne, it was agreed to.

Accordingly, Sue Barnes was duly elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

Pierre de Savoye moved,--That Pierrette Venne be elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

Art Hanger moved,--That Jack Ramsay be elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

The question being put on the motion of Pierre de Savoye, it was agreed to.

Accordingly, Pierrette Venne was duly elected Vice-Chair of the Committee.

At 9:25 o'clock a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 9:30 o'clock a.m., the sitting resumed.

The Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent), be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

Witness: Daphne Jennings, M.P.

On Clause 1

Daphne Jennings, M.P., made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 10:55 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 1995
(Meeting No. 166)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:05 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Members present: Shaughnessy Cohen for Martin Cauchon and Susan Whelan for Paddy Torsney.

Other Member present: Patrick Gagnon.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Marilyn Pilon, Research Officers.

Witness: Val Meredith, M.P.

The Order of Reference dated Thursday, December 1st, 1994, being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-240, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and the Criminal Code, be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

On Clause 1

Val Meredith, M.P., made an opening statement and answered questions.

On motion of Geoff Regan, it was agreed,--That the Committee purchase the latest edition of the Criminal Code for Committee members and that the cost be absorbed by the Committee.

At 12:10 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 1995
(Meeting No. 167)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3.35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Other Members present: Stan Keyes, Tom Wappell and Derek Lee.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon and Patricia Begin, Research Officers.

Witness: John Nunziata, M.P.

The Order of Reference dated Tuesday, December 13, 1994 being read as follows:

ORDERED,--That Bill C-226, An Act to amend the Criminal Code be now read for a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

On Clause 1

John Nunziata, M.P. made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 5:05 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 1995
(Meeting No. 168)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Pierre de Savoye, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Geoff Regan and Paddy Torsney.

Acting Member present: Gary Pilliteri for Beth Phinney.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Marilyn Pilon, Research Officer.

The Chair presented the Fourteenth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure following the meeting of Wednesday, September 20, 1995.

After debate, on motion of Sue Barnes, it was agreed,--That the Committee request the authorization from the House, for a delegation of Committee members to travel to Winnipeg, Manitoba, on Sunday, October 1st and Monday, October 2, 1995, in order to participate in the Canadian Congress on Criminal Justice and that the necessary staff accompany the Committee.

It was agreed,--That the maximum amount of the budget for this trip be $5,000.

At 9:44 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1995
(Meeting No. 169)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Member present: Mauril Bélanger for Gar Knutson.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kristen Douglas, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the Department of Justice (Children and Youth Section): Glen Rivard, General Counsel; Marilyn Bongard, Legal Counsel.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

Glen Rivard and Marilyn Bongard made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 10:56 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1995
(170)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:05 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kirsten Douglas, Research Officers.

Witness: From Canadian Grandparents Rights Association: Nancy Wooldridge, President and Founder and Daphne Jennings, M.P.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

Nancy Wooldridge made an opening statement and with Daphne Jennings, M.P., answered questions.

At 12:15 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1995
(Meeting No. 171)
The Evidence for this meeting is not available because it was held in camera.

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met in camera at 3:35 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Sue Barnes, Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Member present: Derek Lee for Martin Cauchon.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee considered the First Report of the Sub-Committee on National Security concerning Document and Personnel Security.

It was moved,--That the First Report on Document and Personnel Security be adopted.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was, by a show of hands, agreed to: YEAS: 7; NAYS: 1.

It was moved,--That the Chair table the First Report of the Sub-Committee on National Security as the Tenth Report of the Committee.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was, by a show of hands, agreed to. YEAS: 7; NAYS: 1.

It was agreed,--That the Committee request that the Government provide a comprehensive response to this Report.

The Chair presented the Fifteenth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure following the meeting of Tuesday, September 26, 1995.

It was agreed,--That the following recommendations be adopted.

On Bill C-232:

To invite the following witnesses:

On the Sub-Committee on National Security

That there will be a meeting to consider the First Report of the Sub-Committee on National Security

On Y.O.A. (Phase II)

Information

List of potential witnesses was distributed (No. 1)

Budget scenarios for travelling were distributed.

At 4:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 1995
(Meeting No. 172)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Pierre de Savoye, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Member present: Rex Crawford for Sue Barnes.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin, Research Officer.

Witness: From the Barreau du Québec: Me Myriam Grasby, President, ``Comité en droit de la famille''.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

Me Myriam Grasby made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 4:30 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

THURSDAY, OCTOBER 5, 1995
(Meeting No. 173)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 10:05 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 701, La Promenade, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Russell MacLellan, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan.

Acting Members present: Rex Crawford for Sue Barnes and Andy Mitchell for Paddy Torsney.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kristen Douglas, Research Officers.

Witnesses, By teleconference: From Edmonton, Alberta: From the Canadian Bar Association: Steven Andrew, Chair, National Family Law Section. Tamra L. Thomson, Director, Legislation and Law Reform.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

The witnesses made an opening statement and answered questions.

At 11:10 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1995
(Meeting No. 174)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 9:35 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Members present: Daphne Jennings for Diane Ablonczy and Roseanne Skoke for Gar Knutson.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kristen Douglas, Research Officers.

Witnesses: W. Glen How, Q.C., Barrister and Solicitor, W. Glen How & Associates; André Carbonneau, Lawyer.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

W. Glen How made an opening statement and, with André Carbonneau, answered questions.

At 11:00 o'clock a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1995
(Meeting No. 175)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 11:07 o'clock a.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney and Pierrette Venne.

Acting Member present: Daphne Jennings for Diane Ablonczy

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kristen Douglas, Research Officers.

Witnesses: From the National Association of Women and the Law: Lisa Addario, Interim Director of Legislation; Michelle Smith, Family Law Practitioner.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

Lisa Addario made an opening statement and, with Michelle Smith, answered questions.

At 12:05 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1995
(Meeting No. 176)

The Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs met at 3:30 o'clock p.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Morris Bodnar, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Morris Bodnar, Roger Gallaway, Gar Knutson, Russell MacLellan, Beth Phinney, Jack Ramsay, Geoff Regan, Paddy Torsney.

Acting Members present: Daphne Jennings for Diane Ablonczy and Roseanne Skoke for Sue Barnes.

In attendance: From the Research Branch of the Library of Parliament: Patricia Begin and Kristen Douglas, Research Officers. From the Legislative Counsel Office: Louis-Philippe Côté, Legislative Counsel.

Witness: Professor Joseph Magnet, Professor of Law, University of Ottawa and Constitutional Advisor to Federal, Provincial & Territories Governments.

The Committee resumed consideration of its Order of Reference dated Thursday, May 4, 1995 relating to Bill C-232, An Act to amend the Divorce Act (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent). (See Minutes of Proceedings of Tuesday, September 19, 1995, Issue 113, Meeting 165).

On Clause 1

The witness made an opening statement and answered questions.

The Chair presented the Sixteenth Report of the Sub-Committee on Agenda and Procedure following the meeting of Thursday, October 5, 1995.

It was agreed,--That the following recommendations be adopted:

On Bill C-78:

To invite the following witnesses:

At 5:00 o'clock p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Richard Dupuis

Clerk of the Committee

Miriam Burke

Co-Clerk of the Committee

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