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Results: 1 - 15 of 1061
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 15:57
Thank you to our guests.
Mr. Perron, let me start with you. On page 3 of your written testimony, you give some statistical numbers. I have a pretty simple question: does that include B.C., or is that just Manitoba and Ontario?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 15:58
No, it's just that apples and oranges can get confusing. I want to make sure, when I look at your numbers and I look at the Auditor General's report, I'm looking at the same two places.
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 15:58
So I really am looking at an apple and a pear. I'm not actually looking at two apples.
When I compare your numbers and the Auditor General's, they're not the same. Statistically they're not the same but they're not the same comparators. You're looking at four jurisdictions. He's looking at two. He says quite clearly on page 5 under “What we examined”, that they selected a sample of 45 Health Canada nurses, 24 in Manitoba and 21 in Ontario.
Mr. Ferguson, I'll put the question to you. Did you study Quebec or Alberta or anywhere else when it came to that particular chart, exhibit 4.2, on page 6 in the English version?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 15:59
Okay.
The dilemma I have, Mr. Perron, is that I'm looking at a number that says your compliance rate overall is 46%. The Auditor General has a compliance rate in Manitoba and Ontario that is significantly less than that. The problem is that I can't actually break out what you've given us and what the Auditor General's report says, unless you want to supply that to the committee for Manitoba and Ontario. I really don't know if you have it in front of you or not.
Are you any better, as of April of this year, than what this report indicates, and if so, what are the numbers?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 16:00
I hate to interrupt you, but that doesn't speak well to your department if you can't supply your own evidence to support the systems you're actually working with. The whole idea of being able to tell the Auditor General and then Parliament whether your system works is that by having the evidence you can actually prove it. That's actually a deficiency of your department, sir. I don't think it's anyone else's deficiency.
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 16:00
Mr. Perron, on page 5 of the Auditor General's report, in paragraph 4.26, he talks about how the issue of nurses not having completed mandatory training goes back to a previous report in 2010. Also, later in his report, a similar comment is made on page 23 in the English version, in paragraph 4.115. It's a similar idea: “The need to measure whether Health Canada provides comparable access was also raised in...2010.”
The Auditor General said in both of those paragraphs that you were told in 2010 that you needed to do this. I'm not suggesting, Mr. Perron, that you might have been the person there—I don't know—but clearly your department was there. Here we are five years later and at the time you did supply an action plan to this committee for the 2010 report that said “thou shalt do”. Some of the timelines are June 2011, April 2010, December 2010, and March 2011. This is May 2015. If I were your teacher, I'd say that you've all flunked.
Do you have any response as to why this didn't get completed and the Auditor General is now back and asking you how come? You're before us and we're asking you, how come?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 16:31
Mr. Ferguson, I noticed that your spring report chapter 4 has 11 recommendations. I've been here for a number of years and I don't remember the last report that had 11 recommendations. Maybe it was the F-35 and even that one I don't think had 11 recommendations. Is that on the high side for recommendations from your department? It's not an average in my experience, but I was wondering if it was an average in the department's experience.
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 16:32
Mr. Perron, I don't think you said this; I think Ms. Buckland gave me the number. You talked about retention. I think you said on average you recruit ten and lose five. Was that right?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-06-01 16:32
I can imagine you do. I have no idea what you pay them and I don't want to know. But when I look at the Auditor General's report he talks about supporting mechanisms that support the scope, working outside the scope.
Personally, my wife's a nurse. She's licensed in the province of Ontario. If she works outside her scope, she will lose her licence if she gets caught. I can imagine nurses get nervous when they're asked to work outside their scope, not necessarily by the department but by a patient in a remote region who can't get service. Looking at someone who's critically ill or injured and doing what they need to do to serve the patient at the time is outside their scope. What a dilemma they're placed in, Ms. Buckland. You're a registered nurse with a licence. You know exactly what that means to them. I can imagine the stress they go through with that.
Then we hear about a residence that doesn't have a septic system for two years. I live in the country. I had three kids who used to live in my house. I can imagine that septic system being down for two days, never mind two years, and there being a riot. Can you imagine living in those conditions, Mr. Perron? Do you wonder why you have retention issues?
By working outside the scope as a professional you can lose your licence. You're asking them to do that. You're placing them in a position to have to do that. Having them reside in a place that isn't fit for human health.
Then the Auditor General goes through a litany of other things like ventilation and cooling systems that don't work. Working in an environment where the X-ray door may not seal properly and you're asking them to give X-rays to people. And you wonder why you have retention issues? It's lucky you have any.
It's amazing you don't have nine out of ten leave, never mind five out of ten. Who would work in those kinds of conditions? You would have strikes across southern Ontario and every major manufacturer if this is how they treated their employees and these sorts of things weren't addressed.
That's why you have retention issues. It isn't about how much you pay. It's about asking them to work outside the scope of their professional ability to do so and that their licence could be revoked. You place them in a place where it's unfit to live. You don't train them properly before they go. And then you say you have retention issues.
Yes, you have retention issues. You have major problems. You have 11 recommendations of which two go back to 2010, five years ago, that you promised to complete, that you didn't get completed. You said then that you had a retention issue. You still have a retention issue.
Quite frankly, your department, sir, has failed. You've failed this Parliament, because your obligation is to us, but more importantly you've failed first nations people. That's who you've really failed.
This wouldn't happen in Welland, let me tell you. Never would we put up with this service in Welland. It wouldn't happen. There would be a riot in the street if we thought this was the kind of service we were going to get. Nurses would not go to work in the places that you're asking them to go to work in if it were in southern Ontario. It wouldn't happen. That's why you have retention issues.
You have a lot of work to do, sir, and you need to start soon. In fact you needed to start five years ago and you didn't get started then. Quite frankly, I have no idea how you're going to make this up and how quickly you're going to make it up, but you need to make it up in a hurry. I don't know what resources you need, whether it be people or money, but if you intend to have a service that's equivalent or reasonably equivalent to what our expectations are, including your department's expectations.... Could you put them in writing?
I don't know when you intend to get started, but my goodness, you needed to get started a long time ago. The people of this country, our first nations people, deserve better, and we've failed. Hopefully, sir, when the next report from the Auditor General comes we won't be seeing the same thing, because quite frankly, to be truthful, in any other major industry or other place, heads would roll. My friend across the way and I worked in the auto sector. If this were an indictment of our sector, heads would roll for that kind of performance.
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 15:59
Thank you, folks, for coming.
Mr. Normand, if I could start with you, I think I heard you say earlier that some of the issues that arise for delays are issues of other departments perhaps changing how they do things, or changing their mind on certain things. Did I hear that correctly? Is that right?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 15:59
I draw your attention to page13 in the English version at paragraph 5.37, toward the end, just before paragraph 5.38. The Auditor General's report states that you changed your mind in a particular instance, and you made Citizenship and Immigration have to go back. When it came to the entry-exit initiative, you decided to change your mind on a particular way you were going to handle data, which forced them to go back and rethink what they were doing, and which delayed things. Is that how I read that paragraph, Ms. Weber?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 16:00
Certainly. It's on page 13 in the English version at the very top of the page. It's the very last part of paragraph 5.37. It begins with “delivery of the Interactive Advance Passenger Information”. I can read it for you.
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 16:00
I'll read it for you, Madam:
In the case of the Entry/ Exit Initiative, the Agency began work with Citizenship and Immigration Canada—
—“Agency” being CBSA—
— in October 2013 to draft project deliverables and milestones. As of September 2014, these were still being finalized. The Agency also changed a key component in favour of a new solution (master data management) that has caused Citizenship and Immigration Canada to revisit the components it is building.
So as much as Mr. Normand said indeed there are other agencies—and I take that at face value; it's probably absolutely true, IT is a complex business—in this particular case that the Auditor General points out, you changed your mind as an agency and caused them to go back and do something that actually caused you a delay.
Is that correct?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 16:02
Sorry to cut you off, Mr. Normand, but quite frankly, if you're going to try to explain to me master data management, I don't have that long. We don't have a week. I have five minutes.
The bottom line is, I just read to you, sir, and I've asked you to look at it. Clearly, it says, “The Agency”, —you, CBSA—“changed a key component in favour of a new solution”—new solution, not an old solution; this is the Auditor General's report, sir, that I'm reading to you—“that has caused Citizenship and Immigration Canada to revisit the components it is building.”
If you changed your mind on something and told Citizenship and Immigration you had changed your mind, and they had to go back and do something else, did that not cause a delay?
View Malcolm Allen Profile
NDP (ON)
View Malcolm Allen Profile
2015-05-27 16:03
Thank you.
Mr. Ferguson, could you help me with this paragraph, because maybe I'm just confused.
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