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Mr. Chair, the proposed amendment seems a little strange to me. In fact, it completely changes the meaning of the motion. From immediately reporting a bill to a clause-by-clause review.

I would like to know what the clerk or the analyst thinks. The motion is changed completely. We see the same thing in the House. When we try to make amendments that change the meaning of the bill that is presented, it's refused.

It's going to be refused. It changes the motion completely. We are no longer talking about the same thing.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, and welcome to the committee.

You know that we place a high value on protecting copyright. We would have loved to see legislation passed that would protect copyright and also meet the needs of the public and education. Unfortunately, the government has brought in such a bad budget that we will not be able to see our work through to the end.

If I am correct, you mentioned in your remarks that nearly $1 billion is spent in Canada for copyright and licences of all sorts.

As my colleague said earlier, the Quebec National Assembly is opposed to Bill C-32 as it was presented to the House of Commons. National Assembly members are concerned that authors and creators will suffer a loss of income.

You mentioned that your organization has an open mind on this issue and that there were discussions with Quebec.

In your opinion, is the Quebec Ministry of Education wrong in thinking that creators and authors would lose significant income?

The Canadian Conference of the Arts provided us with a summary of the financial impact of Bill C-32 on artists and other rights holders. It amounted to $126 million. That may not seem like very much when compared with $1 billion, but it turns out that the $1 billion covers more than just copyright. The percentage is lower.

Potential losses in the education field under the new fair dealing rules are said to total $41.4 million. That is based only on what has already been paid and not on what could be paid under the rules in the current legislation, which might increase.

You tell us that there will be no losses for authors, creators and collective societies. But the committee has received this other information and estimates of losses. The figures are not terribly precise and may end up being a little more or a little less, but there is still an expected loss of $41.4 million from the fair dealing rules.

Do you maintain your position? Do you believe that there will be no changes in copyright?

But $1 billion is a lot of money! There might be a temptation to try... There are cutbacks everywhere. A minister must be tempted sometimes to say that $1 billion is a lot of money and ways must be found to reduce it.

If you had to find a way to reduce that amount, might it not be by changing a few of the provisions in the copyright act?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

In some ways, you are all in support of the government's initiative and you're applauding its balanced approach in terms of both copyright and users, an approach that allows digital services to expand and more investments to be made in innovation.

In terms of innovation, I am wondering how we can innovate in order to control all this. You said earlier that you have received tons of notices and the number is constantly going up. As several people said earlier, there is no data on these notices. We also don't know how many of them actually protect copyright.

I think Mr. McTaggart said that you don't see royalties as a positive thing. But royalties are not an authorization to copy products illegally.

You are saying that it would no longer be possible to fight against offenders if royalties are involved. But the two can coexist. You are also saying that there will always be someone to manipulate the technology to make downloading, copying and whatnot possible.

I think you are major players. But you seem to look at all this from a distance. You seem to make your interests a priority, of course. In terms of everything else, you are waiting to see how things will turn out once the legislation is passed.

If we had to vote on the bill today, would you support it in its current form, without changes being made based on your recommendations?

Ms. Dinsmore, I would like to quote you. In your presentation, you said the following: “In our view, notice and notice is the best and fairest way to make individuals aware that they are accused of illegal peer-to-peer file sharing...”

You went on to say: “...while recognizing that ISPs should not unduly interfere with our customers' online activities.”

What do you mean by that?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam, gentlemen, Mr. Minister, good afternoon.

Since the Department of Industry is in charge of science and technology, when we deal with the totality of grants and contributions for these components including research, all of that is managed within this department. If, for example, there are scientific and technological research programs that have to do with the environment, requests can be made by the Department of the Environment, but the budgets will be included in the grants and contributions of the Department of Industry, if I understand correctly.

Earlier this week, in a Sherbrooke local newspaper, there was an article about the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmosphere Sciences at Sherbrooke University. There were people who are working at the PEARL laboratory in the Arctic. We know that within the framework of Canada's economic action plan, the government gave a $1.8 million subsidy to the PEARL laboratory. At that time, of course, the researchers at Sherbrooke University believed that the program was on a sure footing. We know now that last year, their budget was reduced.

I wondered why, on the one hand, investments are made in the laboratory as such and on the other hand, people are already envisaging its possible closure. I was trying to look through the various elements. I had some difficulty finding these sums of money. There are great variations involved in the research at the PEARL laboratory. Therefore I wanted to know what the government intends to do. Why, on the one hand, are they investing in the laboratory, and on the other hand, reducing funding for research, including funding for the researchers working on this project at Sherbrooke University?

You are saying that there is more and more investment being made in sciences, technology and research. However, there are more and more reductions in various sectors.

Let us take, for instance, research in the humanities and social sciences. The government clearly stated that it wanted to orient research, especially if it is a ready source of income. Some research projects in pure science do not make money right away, but they are necessary for development and innovation. You have abandoned human sciences to invest in something else. You said that this was due to the environment. Nevertheless, the sums of money are...

When were supplementary estimates (B) approved?

There is a question on my mind. When we consult the various sections, we see that since September, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council have had their transfers decreased, and that afterwards, there was quite a substantial adjustment to the appropriations. The Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council had its transfer cut by $462,000 and then there was a request for an adjustment of $17 million. I know that these are not huge amounts, when we compare the one to the other. The Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council underwent a cut of $324,000, followed by an adjustment of $2 million. On the one hand, the transfer is decreasing and on the other hand, it is increasing during a period of time that is actually quite short. Therefore, at certain times, we can make a bit of headway, and then it's one step forward, two steps back.

Then, there are transfers because the decision-making process does not proceed at the same pace as the projects that are submitted, or sometimes it is because projects are cancelled.

As representatives from Quebec, my colleague and myself were just wondering about the total amount of grants and contributions paid to Quebec, as compared to the Department of Industry's budget as a whole. Can we get this information?

When we look at the industry sector, we see, as a whole...

I would be very grateful to you for that.

I think I have seen that.

Thank you.