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John Williamson - 16:16

NDP (AB)

2023-05-18 16:16

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister for being present with us, and the officials.

It's quite a serious issue, and I'm sure that you're more than seized with this. I have some particular questions that I hope we can find answers for, in particular the social conditions that we find people in.

When the Auditor General came and gave us this report, of course, we were dismayed. We don't like it when the Auditor General, an independent officer of Parliament, says that our investments are not working.

She mentioned in particular a concern I had—this is from the report—which is that when folks are cycling through chronic homelessness they are constantly at the whims of bureaucratic processes that make them develop a lack of trust, and that exacerbates the issue. Houseless folks do not have the capacity to go through tenuous systematic processes of paperwork and waiting, because all of their energy is spent figuring out where their next meal will come from.

Minister, this is the Auditor General, who is describing a very serious fact.

Yes, you can build stock. I believe my colleagues have mentioned some of the realities in relation to housing supply. I know that you're seized with trying to increase that housing supply, so I thank you for your hard work on that.

The biggest problem that I want to address with you today is to bring to light the real consideration that this is an ecosystem. Housing isn't a static thing. We don't have a static houseless population where there are, like in Edmonton, 3,200 houseless folks. The number has increased in the last five years. It's very large and it's continuing to grow.

The Auditor General mentioned the fact that they have distrust and they are unwilling to engage in the bureaucratic system that is CMHC to actually get results, because of that mistrust. That mistrust has also found its way into our systems. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada calls for specific systematic changes to CMHC and to other areas within the Government of Canada that would see the end of what produces houselessness.

Minister Hussen, do you know what produces houselessness in this country?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:18

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:19

Would you agree that some of them are perhaps directly related to the outcomes and the situations that indigenous peoples find themselves in, in particular the trauma they find themselves in because of the sixties scoop, the residential schools?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:19

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:19

In my city, about 60% of the houseless population is indigenous. It's a massive number and it's continuing to grow. The reality is that they have a distrust of the federal government and a distrust of the services because of the inability for them to find support. They often don't even have ID.

I will also speak of a real person in my community, who has now passed on. It was my birth mom. She was a houseless person for a period of her life and it's because she was a victim of the sixties scoop. She was taken as a child. She went through many homes. She found herself on the streets of Edmonton.

The child and family services ministry has produced houseless folks. Have you ever had a conversation with your colleagues, in particular in Indigenous Services Canada, to try to address the reality that the numbers are increasing? Even if you increase the stock, the houseless population is increasing because of the government's inaction on solving the issues related to child and family services.

Do you recognize that as a problem?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:20

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:20

Do you think it's enough?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:20

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:20

Minister, that's the part that I want to have your attention on.

You're going to hear from various members today. From your bench, of course, you're going to hear many good things, and good questions from the opposition. I've seen you challenge the official opposition in a way that I believe is not the most appropriate. They have really good questions.

In particular, I want to find ways to get answers for the houseless community I represent. I represent thousands of houseless people in Edmonton. They want real answers. The Auditor General has made it clear that red tape and bureaucratic mistrust are barriers to ensuring that we actually see solutions in Edmonton, for example.

What do you have to say to the houseless community in Edmonton that's growing? We've seen an increase in the houseless population. That's a fact. What do we say to those people, and what do you expect them to take away from our questioning today?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Kelly Gillis - 16:21

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:22

Yes, we got that. It's not enough, though.

I really want to avoid this tactic of the government ministries oftentimes coming here and saying, “Look at what we've done.” Here at public accounts, our work is to ensure that we actually address the issues pointed out by the Auditor General, and she's saying that all the culture of CMHC and the ministry.... It's the culture that is the issue.

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:22

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:22

But I want to address the gap. Let's talk about the gap, though.

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:22

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:22

You said it wasn't enough—

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:22

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:22

Why won't you answer the question, Minister?

Hon. Ahmed Hussen: I'm trying to answer—

Mr. Blake Desjarlais: What are you going to say to the houseless people in Edmonton?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

John Williamson - 16:22

John Williamson - 16:38

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:38

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We got no information in the last round when I questioned you about this. You had no advice for the houseless community in Edmonton, which is growing. I spoke to the mayor of Edmonton, and he said to me that you, the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister met with the City of Edmonton. You committed to a project. They forwarded to me the correspondence for that request, and then they were systematically denied.

What do you have to say to the City of Edmonton, which supplied many shovel-ready projects—and many of these would go directly to supporting people in my community—but just a month and a half ago they were denied?

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:39

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:39

I just mentioned that the City of Edmonton came to me—your former colleague—and they said they were disappointed that they weren't able to receive a positive response from their—

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:40

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:40

Excuse me, Minister. I'm just going to finish my sentence, please.

They told me they were unable to have a positive response following your commitment. I'll leave that for now. Hopefully, you can provide a response in writing to this committee at a future date. I'll move on to my next question.

Homelessness and homeless Housing Report 5, Chronic Homelessness

Hon. Ahmed Hussen - 16:40

NDP (AB)

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach)

2023-05-18 16:40