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Welcome, everybody, to the 30th meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Of course, when we left off at the last meeting, there was an adjournment put forward by Mr. Shields. Therefore, we follow the dots and go back to clause-by-clause consideration.

Before we do that, I would like to point out that I see a multitude of hands in the air, so I'm going to take this in order.

Ms. Harder.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, it may be a surprise to you, but I am going to move that we now proceed to debate on the motion that was moved by MP Harder on Friday, April 30.

Is that the one as amended?

It's the one as amended, yes.

I believe that when the debate ended, there was another amendment on the floor, but of course the debate resumes with only the amendments that were accepted.

You are correct.

Let's get right to it since it's a dilatory motion.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

The Chair: Okay, folks, I did not get a chance to say this at the beginning, but I want everyone to know. From the point of view of proceeding with this debate, I ask that you please try not to talk over each other. I really try my best to make sure that Hansard is able to recognize who's speaking. On top of that, the fact that we are in a virtual world makes it very difficult.

I ask that if you want to be involved, please do not shout into your microphone. If you feel your electronic hand isn't enough, you can wave at the screen if you wish, but when you yell into the microphone, somebody's ear is right there. They are the interpreters, and this isn't an easy world for them to be wading through.

The amended motion is on the floor. We have an amendment put forward by Madam Dabrusin, which is where we left off last time.

Madam Dabrusin.

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I have a point of order.

Does it not go back to the mover of the motion?

My understanding is that it goes back to where we left off. I believe she had the floor.

I'm going to get Aimée for clarification on this one.

Okay, thank you.

If you'd like to give me just one moment, I'll find the actual page number and I will get that right back to you.

Okay.

In the meantime, I hope everybody's doing well. In this virtual world we live in, it's great to see everybody. It's very good to see you. This is late in the evening for us here on this happy little island we call Newfoundland, and I'm so happy to see everybody. It's just fantastic.

This goes back to the days when I auditioned for a Vegas act several years ago. It never worked out for me, so I became a politician instead. I have no idea how to fill this gap. As you can see, I'm failing at it miserably.

I see Mr. Manly is there. Mr. Manly, did you have a chance to do a sound check?

I did not have a chance to do a sound check.

Would you like me to do a song and dance to fill this time?

I would like that.

Yes, I'm sure we would. You know what? I'm going to have to call division on that one. As interested as we may be, I may have to call back the clerk to do a sound check.

Would you prefer that I do the procedural advice or the sound check?

I think we may as well go straight to debate, and when Mr. Manly comes up we'll try to do the sound check as it occurs in real time.

The answer is that debate usually resumes from the point where it was left, which would be.... The last point we were at was when Ms. Dabrusin's amendment was on the floor.

Okay.

Ms. Dabrusin.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am actually going to start by seeking unanimous consent to withdraw my amendment. The reason I say that is that I believe there are some important pieces that we need to be able to move to, in order to review this entire bill and to see the amendments that we are going to be coming to as part of the clause-by-clause. I think that's an important piece that we really need to do.

As a point of clarity, I would like to seek unanimous consent, and then, depending on that result, I would like to go on further to talk about some of the issues that I think are important for this debate.

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin. Let's get to that right away.

Just for clarification, everyone, what Ms. Dabrusin is asking for is unanimous consent to withdraw her amendment. We all remember her amendment. It's been shared by the clerk, so we don't have to go over that. If I get someone dissenting, please say no.

Does Ms. Dabrusin have unanimous consent to withdraw her amendment?

No.

Following through on debate, carry on.

Thank you. That's unfortunate because there's a lot that we need to get to as part of this clause-by-clause study of Bill C-10. I would like to be able to see us move to it because there are some important amendments that I will be moving once we get to clause-by-clause.

For example, one of the amendments that I think is important for all of us to be discussing and voting upon will be the amendment that Bill C-10, in clause 7, be amended by adding after line 31 on page 7 the following:

(i.1) in relation to online undertakings that provide a social media service, the discoverability of Canadian creators of programs

Then it continues by adding after line 10 on page 8 the following:

“(3.1) Orders made—

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm confused, which is not an uncommon state.

Is Ms. Dabrusin discussing her amendment that's on the floor, or is she proposing new amendments?

From what I can glean thus far, she's not proposing an amendment yet. She's talking about her current amendment in that particular context.

As I say, she's not moving anything at this point, but we're free and open to debate so I'm going to let her proceed.

Thank you.

I'll continue:

(3.1) Orders made under this section, other than orders made under paragraph (1)(e.2), (i.1) or (j), do not apply in respect of programs that are uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service—if that user is not the provider of the service or the provider’s affiliate, or the agent or mandatary of either of them—for transmission over the Internet and reception by other users of the service.

This amendment would go to restricting the CRTC's order powers for social media web giants with regard to expenditures, discoverability of Canadian creators, programs and financial information for these web giants. However, the other part that's really important to be considering and another amendment that I'm really looking forward to moving once we get to clause-by-clause is going to be that Bill C-10, in clause 8, be amended by adding after line 8 on page 10 the following:

(4) Regulations made under paragraph (1)(c) do not apply with respect to programs that are uploaded to an online undertaking that provides a social media service by a user of the service—if that user is not the provider of the service or the provider’s affiliate, or the agent or mandatary of either of them—for transmission over the Internet and reception by other users of the service.

This amendment would be limiting the CRTC's regulatory powers for social media web giants to business information and registration.

I think it's very important that we—

Ms. Dabrusin, I'm going to ask you to hold on for one second. I'll hear Ms. Harder on a point of order.

Thank you.

I believe there's a motion at hand, and then there's an amendment being made to it. I believe that those are the things that are supposed to be discussed right now. The member is talking about a future amendment and not the current amendment that she wishes to make to my motion, which is currently being discussed.

Thank you, Ms. Harder, for the intervention.

You're not moving a motion right now, Ms. Dabrusin. Are you?

I am not. This is part of the debate as to why I believe my amendment is there and why we need to move forward.

That's fine. The only thing I'd caution everyone on is to try to keep this on track. It's hard to follow as it is, in this world that we live in, because it's virtual and all of those things. We have several amendments on the move.

I appreciate the fact that you're not moving a motion right now, and you're talking about further debate. Let's try to keep it as narrow as we can towards what we're debating.

Ms. Dabrusin, once again you have the floor.