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1 - 29 of 29
Add a filter on Committee Evidence - PACP-25
Committee Evidence - PACP-25
2021-04-15
Karen Hogan - 12:25
BQ (QC)
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques)
2021-04-15 12:26
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Just so I understand, if departments have trouble communicating with each other, would it have been more effective to have the Canada emergency response benefit managed solely by the Canada Revenue Agency or by Employment and Social Development Canada?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
Government accountability
Interdepartmental relations
Report 6, Canada Emergency Response Benefit
Karen Hogan
2021-04-15 12:26
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I don't feel ready to answer that question. There has been an incredible amount of benefit claims. The number of employment insurance benefit claims that Employment and Social Development Canada normally receives has multiplied. I don't know whether any agency would have been able to properly handle this. This may be a question for the government. That said, there was an incredible amount of claims at the start of the pandemic.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
Government accountability
Interdepartmental relations
Report 6, Canada Emergency Response Benefit
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas - 12:26
Add a filter on Committee Evidence - HUMA-11
Committee Evidence - HUMA-11
2020-05-15
Sean Casey - 12:36
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:36
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
I wasn't going to be coming up, but MP Turnbull raised my interest on a few things.
Now, we have reports that public servants are not looking into cases but are actively ignoring potential fraud by ineligible people when it is obvious. That is not doing checks later; that is ignoring the issues that are right in front of the public servant. Conservatives aren't saying dig into every case. We're saying that when it's obvious that someone is not eligible, they shouldn't ignore that, and they should look into that. We're not saying slow down the system. We're saying ensure that the resources go to the right people.
The CERB Act clearly requires eligibility, yet you've said here that a memo has authorized the department to not verify eligibility. How do you justify an internal policy that is inconsistent or contrary to the will of Parliament?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:37
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I could turn to Cliff Groen after this about the memo, but the memo didn't say not to look at any integrity issues. It said to look at only the critical and essential integrity issues at the entry, because if we had continued to do what we do on the EI system, where essentially most of the files are looked into, it would have been impossible to do as an adjustment to the integrity framework at the front end. It was not abandoning any checks and balances at the get-go. That's what the memo was saying. It was not directed this way, clearly.
I will ask Cliff—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:38
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No, I'll ask the next question, please.
You said that no political direction was given. How is that possible? Are you saying that the department makes the rules, not Parliament?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:38
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I'm not saying that. The government gave clear direction that the priority was to provide the benefit to Canadians. We needed to adapt our system to do that, and we did. I'm not saying—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:39
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So the government doesn't have to follow the words that are approved by Parliament. Are you saying the government ignored the law? Did the government give you direction to ignore the law?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:39
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We didn't ignore the law. We followed the law that was approved by Parliament for the CERB, and we followed the integrity framework that was presented for that. We're doing exactly what the law allows us to do. We have adapted—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:39
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I'm sorry, sir, but the CERB act says very clearly—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux - 12:39
Adam Vaughan - 12:39
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:39
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—someone has to have $5,000 in income—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Sean Casey - 12:39
Lib. (ON)
Adam Vaughan (Spadina—Fort York)
2020-05-15 12:39
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This is really objectionable, accusing a senior member of the public service of deliberately breaking the law.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Dan Albas - 12:39
Lib. (ON)
Adam Vaughan (Spadina—Fort York)
2020-05-15 12:40
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I ask that the chair rule this line of questioning out of order since it is a direct attack on the integrity of the individual and he is unable to defend himself because the member opposite is continually interrupting him.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Lib. (PE)
Sean Casey (Charlottetown)
2020-05-15 12:40
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Mr. Vaughan, I respectfully disagree. This matter is relevant.
Mr. Albas, out of courtesy to the witness, you should allow him to respond, but your questions are not inappropriate. Please go ahead.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:40
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Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll try my best.
Sir, you've said here today that you're following a memo and not what is laid out in the CERB act.
Let me ask you this question. If a senior who is, let's say, age 75 phones in or applies online and has no T4 income or any other income for the 2019 year, would they be red-flagged and would they be processed under the current memo?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux - 12:41
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:41
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You know what? Maybe that line of questioning....
Mr. Robidoux, could you please answer my question?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:41
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You said that I said we were following a memo and not following the law in doing the integrity process. We are following exactly what is written in the law when it comes to integrity with the CERB, number one.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:41
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I'd like you to answer my question on a retiree aged 75 who phones or applies online and has zero employment income that would qualify for the CERB. Would they be red-flagged right now and would they be processed right now under this memo?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:41
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We have no income data from when they applied in the system. CERB doesn't have that set up. That type of integrity will happen at the back end of the process at the end of the year, when we'll have the data. We'll then claw back the benefit if they didn't have the $5,000. This will happen; it just will not happen now.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:42
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If someone phones in right now and is aged 75.... First of all, do you treat someone of a particular age differently? Are any questions asked? I heard from someone that people are actually asked further questions if they are 75 or older. Can you confirm that?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux - 12:42
Cliff C. Groen
2020-05-15 12:42
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Thank you very much.
First of all, I'd like to be clear that there is a requirement for any applicant to complete an attestation in which it is very clear what the requirements are, and they are fully aligned with what is in the legislation. In order to apply for and receive the benefit, any individual has to complete that attestation, in which they are confirming they meet all of the eligibility criteria, including income they would have received, their age—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Dan Albas - 12:43
Benoît Robidoux - 12:51
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:51
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Going back to your comments earlier that you were not asked by the Prime Minister or the Minister of Employment, are you saying that the memo was 100% originated in the public service?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux
2020-05-15 12:52
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The government gives us direction about the intent of the policy. This was provided by the legislation. It was provided by the direction that it was very important for us to deliver that benefit as quickly as possible to Canadians, and the operation of the benefit fell out of that approach.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:52
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How was this direction documented?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Benoît Robidoux - 12:52
Cliff C. Groen
2020-05-15 12:52
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Thank you, Benoît.
When we deliver any different program, always our starting basis is the legislation. All of our actions, all the guidance and direction we provide for our staff—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:52
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...More
How is it documented, sir?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Cliff C. Groen
2020-05-15 12:52
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The documentation starts with the legislation, and then we have guidance that we develop for our staff. That is the process we use.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
CPC (BC)
Dan Albas (Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola)
2020-05-15 12:53
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Is there an actual document in which the Prime Minister or cabinet, or the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, as the lead minister on this file, does that? In what form was it documented to give direction to utilize this policy?
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Cliff C. Groen
2020-05-15 12:53
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Again, as I was answering, the documentation is the legislation. We use the legislation. Then we have to loyally implement the legislation as it is drafted. That is the process—
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Dan Albas - 12:53
Sean Casey - 12:54
Cliff C. Groen
2020-05-15 12:54
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Thank you.
Both we and CRA have lots of measures if there have been payments made to individuals who are not eligible. We have lots of measures available to us and CRA through which that money will be recovered.
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Canada Emergency Response Benefit
COVID-19
Decision-making process
Government accountability
Pandemic
Sean Casey - 12:54
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