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Add a filter on Committee Evidence - HESA-154
Committee Evidence - HESA-154
2019-06-18
Lib. (NS)
Bill Casey (Cumberland—Colchester)
2019-06-18 15:30
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I call the meeting to order.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is meeting 154 of the Standing Committee on Health and our last meeting for this Parliament.
We have a jammed schedule here today. Actually, we have a vote. We understand the bells will ring at 5:30. I'm seeking unanimous consent to go to 5:45.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Chair: Thank you very much. We'll go to 5:45.
Our first witness is Commissioner Brenda Lucki, commissioner of the RCMP. We have her here for half an hour.
Thanks very much for coming on short notice. We appreciate it very much.
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Civil and human rights
Reproductive health
Women
Brenda Lucki - 15:30
Bill Casey - 15:34
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:34
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Thank you very much, Commissioner, for coming here today. I really appreciate the opportunity to be able to question you on these very serious allegations concerning forced sterilization of women, especially indigenous women, in Canada.
Obviously, you said that no complaint has ever been made to the RCMP.
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Brenda Lucki - 15:35
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:35
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Is there a statute of limitations on the sterilization of women? If someone came forward and said they had a complaint, would you be able to say, “That happened 20 years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago”, or another number, and say, “We can't investigate”?
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Women
Brenda Lucki - 15:35
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:36
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Obviously this has been in the media for a number of years now. It's been out there. If the allegations that are being debated in society are false, I believe that deserves to be investigated. If those allegations are true, that deserves to be investigated. One, if they're false, obviously it's in the media. This undermines and destroys people's reputations: doctors, nurses and social workers. If it's true, these are very serious allegations.
If at one point someone has already raised it in the media, at what point would the RCMP, our national police force, start investigating? What would be the trigger, the moment you would say that this is something serious enough for us to take a deep look at and send an investigator to have a conversation, at least, with a lawyer?
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Brenda Lucki - 15:37
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:39
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What is the level of trust right now between indigenous peoples and the RCMP in Canada? Have you been keeping statistics on that and understanding surveys about that? Obviously that's a very important consideration. If someone's not willing to make a complaint, why are they not willing?
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Brenda Lucki - 15:39
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:40
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You obviously are trying to build a relationship with indigenous communities, but the history of the RCMP was one also of suppression of indigenous peoples.
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Women
Brenda Lucki - 15:40
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:40
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That's a point of view.
Genocide is one of the things that has come up in the last little bit and this is a very serious accusation. Obviously you have a very important role in the maintenance of law and order and the protection of human rights.
Do you believe the RCMP should be taking more of an active role in investigating and ensuring that if crimes have been committed against women in this country, they are afforded the full protection of the state against those who continue to perpetrate those crimes?
We even heard from a witness that these crimes are still ongoing, or at least there are allegations that they are still ongoing.
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Brenda Lucki - 15:40
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:41
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If someone who is a third party made a complaint, would you accept that as a way of moving an investigation forward?
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Brenda Lucki - 15:41
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:41
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For instance, if this committee asked you to investigate this in a more in-depth way, would you then start investigating or would we wait for someone else to come forward?
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Brenda Lucki - 15:41
Lib. (MB)
Robert-Falcon Ouellette (Winnipeg Centre)
2019-06-18 15:41
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Yes.
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Brenda Lucki - 15:41
Bill Casey - 15:53
Lib. (BC)
Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam)
2019-06-18 15:53
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Thank you, Chair.
We've heard that it's sometimes difficult for women to approach police to lodge a complaint or to register that an incident has occurred. I'm wondering if there are alternatives to that. It comes to mind that information can be sworn to a justice of the peace, I believe, to initiate a criminal action. Is that correct?
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Women
Brenda Lucki - 15:53
Lib. (BC)
Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam)
2019-06-18 15:53
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People could approach a justice of the peace and say, “This has been going on and I'd like to lodge a complaint.” That would be passed on to the appropriate police of jurisdiction.
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Brenda Lucki - 15:54
Lib. (BC)
Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam)
2019-06-18 15:54
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I respect that. However, I guess I was looking for an alternative other than going through police services and whether a justice of the peace could serve that function.
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Brenda Lucki - 15:54
Lib. (BC)
Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam)
2019-06-18 15:54
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That's okay. It can be initiated outside of the police forces. Is that right?
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Brenda Lucki - 15:55
Lib. (BC)
Ron McKinnon (Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam)
2019-06-18 15:55
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Okay.
My other question, if I have time, is about warrants. Medical records typically are privileged. In order to access them, you'd probably need specific incidents to get a warrant about. If you had a complainant who was a victim, you could presumably get a warrant for that person's medical records much more easily to follow up on that specific complaint.
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Civil and human rights
Patient records
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Women
Brenda Lucki - 15:55
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