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Results: 1 - 15 of 173
View Corey Tochor Profile
CPC (SK)
I appreciate that. Perhaps you could get back to me on what the ceiling was. I believe it was upwards of $300,000 that people could be receiving a payment, but if you could confirm the maximum amount they could earn and still qualify for the program, I'd much appreciate it.
On the train of thought with regard to the increase in people receiving payments, you made reference to the anti-fraudulence efforts you were studying there. Do we know how many people who applied for benefits were rejected, either as a percentage or the total number of families?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 11:18
As a general comment, we're still doing our analysis of how much people might have received—this would apply to all benefits—that they weren't eligible for, whether because of fraud or something else. We will only really have a good estimate of that once we get all of the 2020 income tax data in. The filing deadline has just passed. That process will be completed. At this stage, we don't have estimates of that amount.
With respect to the CCB, the subject of this meeting, again, I'm not aware that there would be a very big number of people who might have received payments who were ineligible for them, because it is an existing program. It's not a new program.
We will have more information on ineligible payments as we get through processing the 2020 tax returns.
View Corey Tochor Profile
CPC (SK)
If you could get back to me on that number, and also on the efforts to collect on the fraudulent claims of people who have been caught receiving payments, that would be much appreciated.
Is there any common theme in the fraudulent cases, as in geographically, or is there any analysis done on typical behaviours that increase fraud with CCB?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 11:20
If we're talking about the CCB program, I'm not aware of any analysis of common themes, etc., but I will confirm that with one of my colleagues. If possible, I suppose we could come back to the committee afterwards with numbers. For this program, I would be surprised if it was a very big number.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you for clarifying, Mr. Dompierre.
You also mentioned in your report that some information the agency had was outdated, or, at the very least, no longer accurate.
Do you think it would be relevant for the Canada Revenue Agency to launch an investigation to ensure that cases of fraud, such as identity theft, have not been disguised within the workings of the program?
Martin Dompierre
View Martin Dompierre Profile
Martin Dompierre
2021-05-04 11:30
Thank you for the question.
As we mentioned, we found that the amounts were accurate and timely. However, we did note that there was room for improvement in terms of the program's integrity.
For example, in some files in our sample, we noticed that a few months had gone by before the information that was changed in the file was communicated to the agency, so that it would be able to properly determine the applicant's eligibility and, of course, the payment amount. That situation can occur when a couple separates and the parents share custody of the children, partially or fully. That can delay the work of the agent reviewing the file every year in order to manage payments and to determine their amount, as well as the applicant's eligibility.
So there may be overpayments or underpayments. Someone who has received overpayments will have to pay the money back and, in the opposite case, the agency will have to make other payments to make up for the difference.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Mr. Dompierre, you mentioned in your report that, if payments were made to people who were not eligible for the Canada child benefit, it could cost up to $100,000 per child.
How did you calculate those costs?
Martin Dompierre
View Martin Dompierre Profile
Martin Dompierre
2021-05-04 11:33
We calculated the cost for a family of raising a child from birth to the age of 18. We ended up with a total amount of approximately $100,000, as we stated in our report.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you for clarifying, Mr. Hamilton.
I am concerned about the accuracy and precision of information, which raised doubts in the auditor general's mind.
Can you confirm that you are certain that all the mechanisms in place will help avoid fraud? Are you certain that the Canada Revenue Agency will deal with the information provided by taxpayers fairly, that it will ensure that the amounts are paid out legitimately and that those who are tempted to profit from the benefit fraudulently will be prosecuted?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 11:53
The relationship between the two parents can sometimes change, and the agency must occasionally wait a certain amount of time to receive information on that change. We continue to improve this process in order to obtain recent information. However, there will always be processing delays.
The money can be recovered afterwards.
View Julie Vignola Profile
BQ (QC)
On April 15, an ESD representative said that the employment insurance IT system was 50 years old. So it was created before the democratization that was brought on by the Internet. That's a long time ago.
Does that obsolete system—alone or together with other factors—explain the number of data breaches that resulted in fraudulent applications for the CERB and the Canada emergency student benefit, the CESB? Young people, 18 years of age, in my riding came into my office in tears because their identities had been stolen.
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-26 16:02
You're right in saying that the system that Employment and Social Development Canada used to implement its employment insurance program is really obsolete. That's why the department couldn't handle the number of applications received for the Canada emergency response benefit and asked the Canada Revenue Agency for help.
However, the identity theft and fraud problems aren't necessarily related to the obsolete system. I don't know whether you can make that connection because the government has introduced many measures to control access to systems. It's the way every department manages access to its database that has an impact on access, not the obsolete condition of the database itself.
View Kelly McCauley Profile
CPC (AB)
Specifically, you noted in your opening statement that the government introduced added controls. What were those added controls and did you view that they were sufficient?
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-26 16:11
The first added control was the one that prevented the double application between CERB that was managed from the Canada Revenue Agency and CERB that was managed through Employment and Social Development Canada. There were other controls that were added to make sure that if you received the student benefit, you were not also receiving the Canada emergency response benefit. Those were, I guess, the overall big ones. They were policy decisions—
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Hogan, I'd like to get back to the instances of fraud that were detected. There was fraud with the CERB, and there was probably fraud committed by businesses under the Canada emergency wage subsidy.
I understand that it was urgent to act at the time, even though the Conservatives had put forward a number of risk mitigation measures. These were not adopted by the government, but that's ancient history. What we need now is to find answers.
Last fall, the Minister of Finance took further action to obtain the tools needed to do just that.
Do you really think it will be possible to recover fraudulently obtained money?
Do we have the required resources?
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