//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0192nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTMonday, June 28, 2021Le lundi 28 juin 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTJune 28, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 019NUMBER 019NUMÉRO 019019280620212021/06/28 11:10:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]I call the meeting to order.Welcome to meeting number 19 of the Board of Internal Economy of the 43rd Parliament. This morning, we will begin with item 1, the minutes of the previous meeting.[English]Are there any questions or comments on that? Seeing none, we'll move on to the second item.[Translation] We will continue with item 2, business arising from the previous meeting. Are there any comments?[English]Mr. Richards, go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1110)[English]There are a couple of things I want to raise quickly here. The first one is that I noticed that the administration has put together a report for us based on the questions that I asked at the last meeting related to human resource issues that we had with losing some of the senior leadership among procedural folks. I note that we do have an item later on the agenda on this. I was going to suggest that it might be helpful for that discussion to take place perhaps without the administration staff, other than the chief human resources officer, who probably should be a part of that, and possibly the law clerk. I know this is what's typically done when the audits are presented to the board. It might be helpful for us to follow that practice for that particular item. I was going to suggest that, if others see the benefit of that. I think it might be good to be able to have that conversation with just the board members and the one or two pieces of that from administration that would have a direct impact there.Parliamentary staffStaffingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]That's a request. Do I have unanimous consent on that?[Translation] Mrs. DeBellefeuille, do you have a comment on that?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1110)[Translation]Yes. To answer your question, I agree with Mr. Richards' proposal. We need to have this good discussion together.Parliamentary staffStaffingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Do we have unanimous consent? I'm getting signals that we do. That's great.[English]Thank you.Mr. Richards, go ahead.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]I have another one as well, Mr. Chair, if I can. With regard to the litigation that the government has brought with you named, Mr. Chair, I thought it might be beneficial for us to have an in camera briefing, just to find out a little bit about the litigation strategy that will be followed by the House in defending themselves against the government in the Federal Court procedure. I want to throw that out as an item that we could add to the agenda. Obviously it's timely, so I don't think it's something that we can leave for a future meeting, but I think it would be helpful for all of us to have some sort of briefing on that. I would suggest that it be in camera.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]I believe that's already open and ready to go in camera. I believe we have unanimous consent to go along with that.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Further to that, I also wanted to get.... I don't know who the appropriate person is to ask for an opinion on this, but I'm sure you can direct it to whomever it's appropriate to answer. With regard to that, obviously we're talking about a situation where it is in fact the government that is taking the House to court in that instance. Obviously, there are members of the board who are ministers in that government. I don't know, but it did occur to me that there's a possibility that there could be a conflict of interest for them to participate in those discussions. I don't know if they've personally given any thought to that, but maybe it would be good to get an opinion on whether it's appropriate for them to be a part of that discussion or not.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English] If it's okay with the members, maybe we can approach it once we go in camera. We'll have the House of Commons lawyer, Mr. Dufresne, comment on that and then we can make a decision.Is that fair?Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1115)[English] Sure.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Okay. Let's go with that, then. That gives everyone some time to reflect until we get there. There are no decisions made on the spot, and we'll make sure it's the right decision to make.[Translation] Mr. Julian will be followed by Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1115)[English] Thanks, Mr. Chair.I was going to reiterate the same comments Mr. Richards made. I agree that, as part of the in camera, we should be briefed on the court case against the House.Thank you for that.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I am not sure whether it will be possible during this meeting, but I would like to be reassured about next fall. The parliamentary session ended with a lack of resources, particularly in terms of interpreters. I would like to be reassured that this summer and fall we will have all the resources that we need to resume our work. We have had to cancel committee meetings in order to be able to sit in the House of Commons and hold parliamentary committee meetings at the same time. I would like to be reassured on that point, even if it does not happen in this meeting. I would like to make sure that, in the fall, we will have the number of interpreters we require to be able to do our parliamentary work, in the House, in committees and in parliamentary associations. I don't know whether we were supposed to have news about this today. If not, I would like to see a very clear update at the next Board of Internal Economy meeting on the state of our resources and the state of the situation, which was very worrisome at the end of the session.Translation and interpretation servicesAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Let me turn it over to Mr. Patrice, who can tell you what the situation is and what resources we have. Mr. Patrice, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1115)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Yes, we will follow up with all the services involved. We will wait for the dust to settle and evaluate this. We will report back to the Board of Internal Economy on the status. We will be able to provide you with that information in the coming weeks.Translation and interpretation servicesAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]That's great. If there are no further comments on item 2, we will continue with item 3.[English]There was a walk-around, an extension of COVID measures. They were extended to September 30.Is everyone in accordance with the extension and what we have now, to be on the safe side?Good. We'll move on to item number four.[Translation]Item 4 is the 31st annual session of the Organization for Security and Co‑operation in Europe (OSCE) Parliamentary Assembly, to be held in Vancouver, British Columbia, in July 2023.(1120)[English]The presenter is Hedy Fry, and I'll let her take it from here.Ms. Fry, go ahead.COVID-19PandemicWorkplace health and safetyMichelPatriceHedyFryHon.Vancouver Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1589HedyFryHon.Hedy-FryVancouver CentreLiberal CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FryHedy_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Hedy Fry (Director, OSCE PA, Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association): (1120)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.This is a renewal request. I thank you graciously. The board granted a request for us to host, in July 2020, the summer meeting of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe's Parliamentary Assembly. About 500 to 700 people were to attend. We had prepared for it. Everything was fine. We had done all the work. Then COVID-19 came in March 2020 and we had to cancel. We have not held another summer meeting since. We now have a mix of virtual and in-person meetings.The OSCE PA, for those of you who don't know, is made up of 57 nation-states. They include Europe, Scandinavia, and the central Asian countries of Kazakhstan, Afghanistan, Russia and so on. It also has about nine observer states from the Middle East that come to the meetings each time. The Holy See is also a member of the OSCE PA. The last time we hosted a summer meeting was about 23 years ago. I think it's about time for one of the large countries, like Canada, to be able to do this. You kindly gave us permission in 2020. It was cancelled. I'm back to ask you for permission to do this in July 2023. You have, I think, the cost of the meeting. It has gone up a little bit because of inflation and the fact that now everyone is required to do a lot of COVID security, cleaning, etc. That has raised the bar a little bit for costs. I would be able to answer any questions you would like. We are ready to go. The people who are running this for us, our bureaucratic staff, have been through this already. They were all prepped for July 2020 and then had to cancel. We did not pay any penalties in 2020, because we had a clause that talked about a force majeure. We have a similar clause this time in case an act of God says we have to cancel.International meetingsOrganization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE)AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]Are there any questions for Ms. Fry?The recommendation is that we go ahead. Is everyone in accordance with the recommendation? Good. We have consensus.Thank you, Ms. Fry, and thank you to all the members.HedyFryHon.Vancouver CentreHedyFryHon.Vancouver Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1589HedyFryHon.Hedy-FryVancouver CentreLiberal CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FryHedy_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Hedy Fry: (1120)[English]Thank you very much, everyone. I appreciate it. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]The next one on our list, number 5, is the 65th Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference in Halifax, Nova Scotia, in August 2022. The presenter this morning is Jeremy LeBlanc.Mr. LeBlanc, go ahead.HedyFryHon.Vancouver CentreJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Clerk Assistant and Director General, International and Interparliamentary Affairs): (1120)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.This request is to transfer funding that had previously been approved for the 65th parliamentary conference to be hosted in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The conference was originally scheduled to occur in January 2021. It was then postponed until August 2021. It has now has been postponed again until August 2022.[Translation] The Board of Internal Economy had already approved temporary funding for the conference. We are asking for authority to carry over the approved funding from one fiscal year to the next to coincide with the timing of the conference. Also, if there are any additional costs because the conference was postponed, we are asking you for permission to use the Joint Interparliamentary Council (JIC) budget to cover those costs, instead of asking for new funding. In short, this is simply a request to transfer the funding already approved into the next fiscal year and the authority to cover the additional costs from the JIC envelope.Canadian Branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary AssociationCity of HalifaxInternational meetingsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Are there any questions? You are signalling that it's clear and that you're all in agreement. We have agreement on that recommendation. Let's continue with item 6.[English]This is the 2020-21 year-end financial report and the 2021-22 supplementary estimates. Our presenter will be Daniel Paquette.(1125)[Translation] The floor is yours.JeremyLeBlancDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am here today to present the 2020‑21 year‑end financial report, and to seek your approval for the supplementary estimates (B) 2021‑22. This report provides the details of the authorities and expenditures for the 2020‑21 fiscal year, as well as comparative information from the previous year. As with the quarterly reports already submitted this year, we are comparing two atypical years. This past year, the pandemic clearly impacted our spending trends, and the general election was held the year before. Therefore, our comparisons were made with due consideration of the influences on the results of those two years.For reporting purposes, as of March 31, 2021, approved authorities for that period totalled $641.9 million, which is an increase of $124.8 million over 2019‑20 authorities. The most significant change relates to an actuarial adjustment to the members of Parliament retiring allowance account and the members of Parliament retirement compensation arrangements account in the amount of $125.6 million. The adjustment is made as directed by an actuarial report of the MP pension plan. As of March 31, expenditures totalled $610.1 million, an increase of $104.4 million over the previous year's expenditures.[English] The most significant increase in expenditures relates to the increase of $126.8 million in the contribution to the members' pension plan, mainly due to the previously mentioned actuarial adjustments. Had there not been this actuarial adjustment, the variance in expenditures would have been a reduction of $22.4 million. This decrease in expenditures across the House is due to measures in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, such as the restrictions on travel and gatherings imposed by public health authorities, which contributed to the significant decrease in our travel expenditures. A decrease has also been seen in areas across the whole organization, such as training and hospitality. Also, the temporary closure of some of our food service facilities and printing facilities last year has meant a significant reduction in our costs of materials and supplies. These reductions were partially offset by the purchase of consumable items such as the face masks and hand sanitizer that were used across the House, as well as by the investments in the virtual House proceedings and committees, including the remote voting system and accommodations for press conference facilities. In addition, there were costs incurred for equipment to enable the administration employees to work remotely during the COVID pandemic. On the other hand, expenditures for salaries and benefits have decreased, mainly since expenditures in 2019-20 were abnormally high as a result of the payments made in that period for severance payments for members and their employees following the 2019 general election. Also, in that fiscal year there were retroactive payments in respect of economic increases for certain administration employees.Finally, the report provides a comparison between the 2020-21 and the 2019-20 utilization of authorities. With respect to the non-statutory spending, the utilization has decreased by 5.2%, which is not unexpected given the current situation. It is important to note and to mention that the administration does promote an efficient use of resources and continuously strives to minimize requests for incremental funding whenever possible. The COVID pandemic had a significant impact on the House business, and the magnitude of the financial impact was not apparent early in the fiscal year. Funding decisions were made based on the best information available at various times. As the pandemic continued to evolve, restrictions continuously had to be put in place, which resulted in lower-than-expected expenditures. As mentioned before, the 2020-21 authorities totalled $641.9 million, and expenditures totalled $610.1 million. This leaves us with a $31.8-million surplus, which corresponds to the lapse that will be represented in the public accounts of Canada. The surplus represents 8.8% of the 2021 main estimates voted authorities. It is customary for government organizations to carry forward a lapsed amount of up to 5% of their main estimates. Therefore, I'm seeking your approval to include a carry-forward of $18 million in the 2021-22 supplementary estimates (B), but note that I will return in the fall to inform the members of the final amount to be included in the supplementary estimates based on operational requirements at that particular time, if there is some reason why we don't need to carry over the full amount.(1130) Mr. Chair, this concludes my presentation.[Translation] I am available to answer any questions you may have.2020-2021 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation] Are there any questions?[English]Is everybody fine with the recommendation that's proposed?Mr. Richards, go ahead.DanielPaquetteBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.I have a couple of questions related to resources. The first one is for you. In the House on our final day, I raised a point about some matters of privilege that we have. You made some comments in relation to that and other things. I thought that maybe there was a lack of resources in order to complete some of those things. I guess this is an appropriate place to ask about that. Do you think you have a need for additional resources? Is there a lack of resources available to you at this point? House of Commons administrationParliamentary staffStaffingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]No. Under normal circumstances, and even under extenuating circumstances, everything works fairly well. As you know, in the last two weeks of the House we were sitting until late. I have to credit the clerks of the House and the table officers on a lot of this work. They start working on it and they go around the clock—I don't think they sleep at night—so that we can get it. Unfortunately, we weren't giving them any time to sleep, so they weren't able to come up with a lot of it, and I didn't have what I thought was something that was to the quality that we've been accustomed to. It was my call, but overall I think we do have sufficient staffing in the administration and the clerks. Just don't keep us going until midnight, or until one or two in the morning, every day for weeks on end and we'll be fine.House of Commons administrationParliamentary staffStaffingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]This is the challenge we all face at that time of year, understood.House of Commons administrationParliamentary staffStaffingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Exactly. It was an anomaly because of the time of year and everything kind of came.... A number of questions of privilege came at once and that basically was the issue.House of Commons administrationParliamentary staffStaffingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Okay.In that same vein, is our law clerk with us at the moment? I'm not certain he's here, but quite often he is.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Mr. Dufresne, you have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne (Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons): (1130)[English] Yes.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Excellent, thanks.I had a similar question for you, in relation to the resources available to you. With the government making an application to the Federal Court, and a number of requests put to you to help determine the appropriateness of certain documents being released, based on orders of a variety of committees and the House itself, do you have the resources that you need at this time to manage both that Federal Court procedure against the House and those requests for documents? Are you handling that Federal Court application in-house, or are you going to be engaging outside counsel? Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryOffice of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary CounselPhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne: (1130)[English]Thank you, Mr. Richards.It's certainly been a busy time for the office, but we have been able to provide the service and the advice. With regard to the litigation matter, we have the resources to deal with it. We have retained outside counsel and we'll be working very closely with them in terms of directing and giving instructions. This is something that I will continue to monitor very closely, but for the moment, and thanks to this board's earlier decision that had increased the resources for my office, I feel that I have the necessary resources to continue to provide the services.Thank you.Access to informationFederal institutionsNational Microbiology LaboratoryOffice of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary CounselBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Great.Thank you. I appreciate that update.PhilippeDufresneAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]Very good.[Translation] Are there any other comments? Is everyone in agreement with the recommendation that's been put forward?[English]Everybody is in accordance, very good.We'll move on to number 7, request for exception. Mr. Paquette, please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am now presenting a request for an exception from a member. In March 2021, the member submitted two external printing claims that exceeded the current policy limit of 5,000 copies.[English] You can recall that in spring 2020 there were temporary measures put in place to allow members to use external printers, in collaboration with our printing facility's team, for constituency mail in excess of 5,000 copies. These temporary measures did end on June 30, 2020, and since then the regular policies and use of House printing facilities for constituency mail have resumed. The member did make use of the House services during this period of time, but given the board's policy in effect at the time when these costs were incurred by the member, in March 2021, the member in this case would be personally responsible for the cost of the copies in excess of 5,000 copies. Given the current situation, the member has requested that the board make an exception and allow him to charge the full amount to his MOB. We are here to seek the board's direction on this matter.[Translation]Thank you.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation] Mr. Rodriguez, do you have a question?DanielPaquettePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1135)[Translation]Yes, Mr. Chair. I assume that, when our colleague did that at the time, he knew the rules and regulations of what was allowed and what was not allowed. My concern with requests for exceptions like that is that they can be used by others to break the rules. People could end up saying that so‑and‑so broke the rules, and all he had to do was go to the Board of Internal Economy and get what he wanted. To me, the rules are the rules, and people have to follow them. It's unfortunate, but I see no reason for an exception in this case.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Okay, thank you. Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1135)[Translation] I agree with Mr. Rodriguez. There also seems to be some confusion. The document before us indicates that the member did not have his salary taken. In his letter, the member says that it was taken. I would like to have that little confusion clarified. I think everyone knows the rules. The arrangements for in‑house printing and the number of copies allowed are quite clear. For the time being, I'm not really in favour of granting this exception, unless you have other arguments to convince me.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Okay. Mr. Rodriguez, do you have any other comments? No? Okay. Are there any further comments or questions?[English]Mr. Richards, go ahead.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]I guess what I can do is just add some additional information. I'm certainly sympathetic to some of the comments that have already been made in terms of having to be careful about making exceptions and making sure that those exceptions are appropriate. I will just add, for the information of members in making this decision, that I have obviously talked to Mr. Vis about this situation, and my understanding of what happened here from his perspective is essentially that there was some communication with printing and mailing services and his office understood that the exceptions had been lifted for certain types of mailings, but I think they didn't realize that the exceptions had been lifted for the types of mailings they were doing. There certainly was a misunderstanding, and a bit of miscommunication possibly as well. That is kind of his version of what occurred. I thought it would be important for context for members. Again, I do understand that we have to be very careful about when we make an exception. If that is helpful to members at all in making this decision, I wanted to make sure that Mr. Vis's understanding of the situation was put forward as well.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Are there any other comments or questions?My understanding, just from what I've heard, is that option 1 is what we go with, the status quo that Mr. Vis is responsible for the extra costs.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1140)[English]I agree.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English] Very good. Everyone is in accordance, so we'll go ahead with option 1.Now we'll go on to item 8, “Report to Canadians”.[Translation] Mr. Robert, you have the floor. PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierCharlesRobertCharlesRobertCharles-RobertInterventionMr. Charles Robert (Clerk of the House of Commons, House of Commons ): (1140)[Translation]The purpose of this presentation is to ask the Board of Internal Economy to approve the Report to Canadians 2021 for tabling in the House of Commons.[English]This report to Canadians is an annual update on members' parliamentary activities, along with a summary of accomplishments by the House administration for the same period, 2020-21 fiscal year, based on the priorities laid out in the strategic plan. As you know, this year was exceptional because of the pandemic. The report has been enhanced quite a bit and can be used as a document, really, for constituents and for the groups that come to participate in the conferences that we put on during the course of the year. The format of the report is the same as usual, with messages from the Speaker.[Translation] There are also statistics about MPs, descriptions of MPs' activities, highlights from the Hill, and so on. The purpose of this presentation is really to ask for the board's permission to table the annual report as soon as we return after the summer recess.[English]Thank you.If you have any questions, I'm prepared to answer them.House of Commons administrationReport to Canadians 2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Are there any questions?[Translation] Are there any comments?[English]Is everybody okay with the recommendation as stated in our report? Very good, we'll go ahead with it.Item 9 is the Joint Interparliamentary Council report on parliamentary associations' activities and expenditures for 2020-21. The first one, at tab 9, is the annual report on the activities and expenditures of parliamentary associations for 2020-21. The co-chairs of the Joint Interparliamentary Council have sent a letter noting that the JIC has adopted this report and is submitting it to the board for your information. The form is similar to that of reports from previous years, but due to the moratorium on travel that was in effect all of last year, it instead focuses on the virtual activities of associations. If there are any questions about the report itself, the clerk of the JIC is available today, or we could invite the House co-chair Mr. Stanton to appear at subsequent meetings. Are there any questions?The next report for this committee is the annual report, at tab 10. You have before you a letter from the chair of the Liaison Committee, Ms. Sgro, who wishes to inform the board that the Liaison Committee recently adopted and presented to the House its latest annual report on committee activities and expenditures for the 2020-21 fiscal year. Ms. Sgro submitted a copy of the report to the board and has indicated that she would be available to meet with us at a future date if the board desires.[Translation] Pursuant to Standing Order 121(4), the Board of Internal Economy shall cause to be tabled in the House an annual comprehensive financial report, outlining the individual expenditures of each committee.The established practice since 2014 has been for the Liaison Committee's annual report to be approved by the board and tabled by the Speaker in order to comply with the requirements of the standing order. Consequently, if all members are in agreement, I will submit the report as attached to the House as the board's report, pursuant to the standing order. Are there any questions or comments about the report or the process? I see none.Does everyone agree that I submit the report to the House? I see that you do. That is great. We will take a two‑minute break before moving in camera and continuing with item 11.(1145)[English]Mr. Holland, go ahead.Committee Activities and Expenditures, April 1, 2020 - December 31, 2021FinancingInternational and Interparliamentary AffairsJoint Interparliamentary CouncilCharlesRobertMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland (Chief Government Whip): (1145)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.There was an item.... I thought there was a report that we had been given with respect to expenditures on MOBs. I'm sorry; I anticipated that this was coming up, but I should have perhaps raised it earlier. We had discussions as whips. It was discussed at the prior meeting, so perhaps I should have raised it in the minutes. With the leave of the board, I believe we have concurrence among the whips, and we've had conversations, for the item we discussed in the previous BOIE meeting with respect to a professional development program to be run on a pilot basis for members of Parliament. It would be in a reduced amount from what was talked about before, for $5,000 to run in a one-year period of time.Perhaps I was remiss in not raising that in the minutes prior, but if possible, I'd like to raise that now, if I can.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]I believe that was covered in item 2, but I'll pass it over to Mr. Patrice. He might be able to comment on it, unless someone else is better suited to comment on that item.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMarkHollandHon.AjaxMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1145)[English]I believe it's about the wish of the board to have that discussion now in terms of a measure following the document that was presented by the administration with regard to professional development and training, I believe.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Okay.How do we wish to proceed? Mr. Patrice or Mr. Holland, I'm looking for direction here.MichelPatriceMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1145)[English]Well, I think it shouldn't take a lot of time, if the board is willing to return to that item. It's my error for having missed the appropriate time to raise that item. As I said, we have had conversations among the whips and we do have agreement. If there is the opportunity, with the indulgence of the board, to return to that item, then I could forward the discussions we had.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Very good.Do we have consensus to go back to item 2?I believe we have consensus. Very good. We'll go back.Mr. Holland, go ahead.MarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1145)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.There were discussions among the whips. We had discussions some time ago. At the last meeting, Mr. Richards indicated that he wished some additional information, which was furnished. I believe Mr. Richards and the other whips.... I know that we had conversations, so I understand that there is agreement that we would move forward on a one-year basis with a pilot project to be reviewed basically at this time next year, at the end of the next sitting of Parliament, to review the program. It would make available for each MP's office, outside of the MOB, $5,000 for the purposes of professional development for staff.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Very good. Are there any questions or comments on that?Does the board agree? I believe I see no disagreement. Perfect. Very good. That is passed.[Translation] Mr. Paquette, you have the floor. MarkHollandHon.AjaxDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1145)[English]Just in terms of the financial authority, I want to confirm that we're approving that I put aside or make a request for $1,690,000, at $5,000 per MP, for this specified-purpose supplement for members.Education and trainingMembers of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]I'm getting a lot of heads shaking “yes”.Do we have consent for that? Very good. It's passed.DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1145)[English]Thank you. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]We'll now take a two-minute break so that the staff can rearrange everything for in camera. Then we will return.At 11:54 we'll be back. We'll give it a little extra time. We'll give it five minutes.[Proceedings continue in camera]DanielPaquette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0182nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, June 10, 2021Le jeudi 10 juin 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTJune 10, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 018NUMBER 018NUMÉRO 018018100620212021/06/10 11:10:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1105)[Translation]Welcome to meeting number 18 of the Board of Internal Economy of the 43rd Parliament.We will begin with the first item, the minutes of the previous meeting. Are there any questions about it? Since I see no raised hands, let's continue. We will now move on to business arising from the previous meeting, the dashboards and virtual committees. Are there any questions on that?Ms. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1110)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to address two items of business arising from the previous meeting. I would like to talk about the dashboards first. I read them carefully and they are very useful in my work as a whip. If I may, I would like to ask a few questions about the dashboard.On page 3 of the report, it says that the preliminary tests are 96% done. Does this mean that 96% of witnesses have undergone a preliminary test? Is that what that means, Mr. Janse?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]That is exactly right, Ms. DeBellefeuille.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]All right.Does what is written on page 4 mean that half of the witnesses did not have headsets that complied with our standards?Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1110)[Translation]Either they didn't have a headset sent by the House or they were using a headset that was not approved by the House. Obviously, there are improvements to be made in this area. The difficulty is always having the time to send headsets to witnesses.Lastly, we have put in place a process in collaboration with Mr. Aubé's team, which has approved a list of good headsets. When we don't have time to send a headset to witnesses, we encourage them to buy one themselves and then we reimburse them. We hope this will help us to have a better success rate on future dashboards.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Good.The last question I have on this part is about page 6.When witnesses come to committee and they don't have headsets or they don't have the equipment, what happens?Are witnesses automatically invited to reappear? Has there been testimony without headsets, and therefore without interpretation?Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1110)[Translation]If there are any problems during the pre-test or on the day of the meeting itself, or if the witness simply does not have a headset, the clerk will notify the committee chair following discussions with the technical team. The chair can provide this information to the committee, and it is up to the committee to decide what to do.The committee can decide to hear the witness anyway, or, as you suggested, they can ask that witness to come back to another hearing when they are better equipped. This is really at the discretion of the committee, which decides how it will proceed. Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Fine.Yesterday, at the Standing Liaison Committee, someone said that most committees have adopted housekeeping motions that ask the committee chair to tell members at the beginning of the meeting whether the tests have been done and whether the witnesses have the necessary equipment. This makes things easier. It was noted that few chairs made this statement at the beginning of the meeting. Knowing in advance that witnesses do not have helmets or that they have technical difficulties can be helpful. It allows the committee to make a decision at the outset rather than finding that the witness does not have everything they need during their testimony. Members may be too uncomfortable to interrupt.So committee chairs have been asked to indicate this at the beginning of the sitting. I encourage the whips to remind all committee members that it is important to know this at the beginning of the meeting so that good decisions can be made. This prevents witnesses from appearing without the right equipment, which has implications for our interpreters.The other point I wanted to make is to you, Mr. Chair.It concerns your ruling in the House on Monday, June 7, regarding the misconduct of the member for Pontiac and your willingness to ask the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs to look into this matter. I had discussions with my colleagues prior to the Board of Internal Economy meeting. I had invited you to review the decision to put the April 14 incident on the agenda, and I note that this item is absent. So I wanted to thank you for listening to all the members of the committee.Amos, WilliamMembers of ParliamentVirtual ParliamentEricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]You're welcome.[English] Now we'll go to Mr. Richards.[Translation]Mr. Deltell will be next.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1115)[English]Thank you.I had two items of my own, but I'm not sure if I misunderstood what Ms. DeBellefeuille said. Was she suggesting that we put something up for discussion?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]No, the item relating to the April 14 has been removed from the agenda.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]She's just confirming that she's agreed to that. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Exactly. She's just thanking us for listening to her point.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Okay. Thank you, I appreciate that.I have two things to raise.The first one is that we have been provided some information with regard to technical incidents, etc., at committees. That brings to mind for me that there has been some discussion around here about fairly significant technical upgrades that are required this summer that would make resources unavailable for a couple of different and fairly lengthy periods of time.I wondered if we could get a bit more information on what those upgrades entail. Specifically, we've been operating in a hybrid manner and we've seen some challenges with the availability of resources as a result. Particularly in the last couple of days, we've seen the other three whips agreeing to cancel meetings to ensure that certain other committee meetings occur. Of course, that's not something I've agreed to, but it has happened, and obviously it's unfortunate to say the least when we are in situations where committees are not able to do the work they're supposed to do. I would assume that with vaccination rates rising and whatnot, we'll probably be seeing an end to hybrid sittings of committees within a fairly short period of time, but I am curious about the technical upgrades being done this summer. Are some of them related to hybrid sittings? Are technical upgrades needed for other reasons? Maybe you could just elaborate a bit on what those upgrades are and why they're required. I'm not certain I have enough information.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Okay, we'll pass that on to Monsieur Aubé.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]I do have one other thing that—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Sorry. BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]It's fine, we can—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Is it related to this one?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]No, they're separate. I just want you to know that I still want the floor.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Okay, we'll come back to you again. Monsieur Aubé.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1115)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Mr. Richards, thank you for the question.We're planning two windows of maintenance for the summer. The plan is for the first period to deal with updates to the chamber systems and committee rooms. We haven't had a chance since the end of January to do the necessary maintenance for security reasons, because all the systems we're using are actually connected to the Internet.... There's some patching to be done. We tried to do it, sir, during the March and April time frame and then we ran into a lot of issues because we didn't have the appropriate time frames to do the testing required before releasing these into production. So we have moved all of our scheduled windows to two windows this summer. The first one is right after the adjournment of the session, hopefully after June 23 to the end of June and the beginning of July, and then the last window, sir, is for what we are calling a “multimedia operation centre” where we distribute all content to Canada. All of the maintenance for that system hasn't been done in over eight months, and it's required so that we can properly support the chamber, distribute the content to Canada, and also ensure that we have a secure environment for the operations to work.It's not about our people, sir. It's really about making sure that the systems are up and functioning and that we can do the necessary testing so that we can minimize the number of incidents we have in the chamber or committee rooms. Those are our plans.Usually we do this on a year-to-year basis. We've been doing it since I've been at the House, for more than 20 years. We've always used these windows because we've had the opportunity in the summer, but this year has been a little bit different because we haven't had a lot of the windows we usually do. That's why we're focusing on this at this time. Having said that, sir, if ever there's a need for the House to come back, if there's ever a need for another priority, as we did at Christmas, we have plans in place to make sure that Parliament can sit. If ever it is the decision of Parliament to bring back the House, we will certainly make sure that you can do your work as usual.That's my commitment to the House, Mr. Speaker.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]We'll go back to Mr. Richards, and then over to Mr. Julian.StéphanAubéBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]Thank you, I just have one very short follow-up. I appreciate the information, which is very informative and helpful.You mentioned that if there were a need for the House to sit, you would make sure it could happen. That's obviously incredibly important.Would the same apply if there were emergency committee meetings? Would you be able to find a way to make sure they can operate as well?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1120)[English] It would be our goal to do so.Our preference is to keep that window open if we can. If the House decides that we need to have this to happen, sir, we've always found ways to make it happen. We're going to try to do our best to make this happen, sir.Virtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]Sure. I appreciate. I know you always have done everything you can, so I appreciate that. Thank you for the information.I have another matter I want to raise quickly. We have lost or will soon be losing three of the most senior procedural clerks in the House: Colette Labrecque-Riel, Beverley Isles, and as I understand now, André Gagnon. We're going to see his retirement soon. These are three of the most senior people we have. I think there's close to 100 years of combined experience there. One of them, literally, wrote the book on procedure. First of all, we want to acknowledge and thank them for all of the work and the contributions they have made to this place. However, I suppose it also raises a question on which I want to see if we can get some information brought back to the board. I understand that each of them has at different times been on medical leave in the last few years and then have ultimately decided to retire early. They all strike me as pretty young despite their lengthy years of service, so it seems as though those retirements could be coming a little early. Losing even one of them is a huge loss to this House, but quite frankly, losing three of them is probably an immeasurable loss.Can we get a report back on whether there has been any work done on determining whether there are any internal factors that have caused such a significant and unexpected turnover? Is there anything being done both to try to mitigate their loss and as to whether there's anything we need to correct to ensure that we're not finding something occurring that's causing three of our more senior people to choose to leave in what I would say seem to be early retirements?Can we ask that the administration examine that and come back with something on that? If there's any comment now, I'd be happy to hear if anything has been done.House of Commons staffRetirement from workStéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]It's a fair request. We'll ask the administration to come up with a report and find out if there's anything—House of Commons staffRetirement from workBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]That's unless there's anything to report now. If not—House of Commons staffRetirement from workAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Ms. Laframboise, did you want to add something?[English]Would you have something to report on that, or should we come back with a report?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1120)[Translation]Certainly, Mr. Chair. Thank you.[English]The only comment I would make at this time is, in my experience, people retire when they can and when they want to. If you have any questions specific to Mr. Gagnon's retirement plans, I would suggest that you ask him what his plans are, but he is eligible for and has opted to retire.House of Commons staffRetirement from workAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]Given that, I think it would be good if we could ask that there be.... Any time you lose three senior people, especially when they seem to retire earlier than what would be expected, it's probably wise to examine whether there's anything internal that is at play there. Maybe we need to examine those things and determine whether there's anything we can do to ensure that we don't lose other folks to early retirement like we have these three. It could well be that, in this case, it's just coincidence that three of our most senior people have all made that decision, but it's always important. I know if I were to lose three senior people from an organization, I would want to examine whether there's anything we need to do to ensure that we don't have further occurrences.House of Commons staffRetirement from workMichelleLaframboiseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]That's a fair request. We'll put that forward and see about getting a report back.I do concur with you. They are very useful and they will be missed when they leave.Mr. Julian.House of Commons staffRetirement from workBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1125)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would reiterate Mr. Richards' request. I am concerned with high turnover. When we lose three people, who've given so much to the House, in rapid order in what seems to be their stepping down early, it's a matter of concern. I thank you, Mr. Chair, for responding to Mr. Richards' request. I also believe that at the next BOIE meeting, perhaps in camera, we should have a discussion to determine if this is something we should be concerned about.I want to come back to Mr. Aubé, because we have two dynamics at work. One is the new variants. I don't think we can, at this point, anticipate that in September, if there is no election, the House would reconvene as if the pandemic didn't exist. We're all hopeful that, eventually, the pandemic will die down, but the variants have meant that there's been a third wave, and there's anticipation now of a fourth wave this summer. We have to plan for that, of course.There are discussions taking place in other forums about how that will look over the course of the summer.Perhaps I missed this, Mr. Aubé, but I'd really like to get the dates at this point when committees can meet. Committees will be meeting over the summer—there's no doubt about that. There will be issues that will come up that require committee participation. I gather there are provisions if the House is recalled, and that's good. Committees will meet.You mentioned June 23, and it wasn't clear to me what the end date was in that first preference for the administration that committees not schedule meetings. You then talked about further dates, but I didn't grab the dates that were mentioned.What are the very concrete blackout periods that we can pass on to our caucuses of the administration's preferences of when not to hold emergency committee meetings during the course of the summer?House of Commons staffRetirement from workVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1125)[English] We're currently looking at two windows. I want to be specific with exact dates. We are looking for a break for committees from June 30 to July 18. The other window is from August 21 to September 13. These were the two windows we requested the House leaders to consider.Virtual ParliamentPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]Thank you for that.I think Mr. Richards asked this question, as well. In the case of a committee that absolutely needs to meet during that period—we live in times where emergencies arise—is there a provision for a committee to meet even during these periods?Virtual ParliamentStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1125)[English]As I committed to Mr. Richards, and to the Speaker, in the case of an emergency, we would certainly make the appropriate arrangements for a committee to sit, if required.We're asking... If all committees were to sit at the pace they're sitting right now, we wouldn't be able to provide maintenance during that time.That's the comment I'm making here.Virtual ParliamentPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]Thank you.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]Thank you.[Translation]Are there any other comments regarding item number 2?In that case, we will proceed to item number 3, improvements to the Printing and Mailing Services program.[English]We'll now proceed to Ms. Kletke.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke (Chief Operations Officer, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I am here today with Ms. Julie Allard, director of client service delivery, to provide an update on enhancements we are implementing in printing and mailing services.Over the past year, we have continually evolved the printing and mailing service offering in line with members’ needs. On January 28, 2021, we presented to members of the board preliminary areas of enhancement that we would further explore, and today we will share what we have implemented or will be implementing following this analysis.(1130)[English] During our review, we considered the lessons learned from the adjustments made over the past year. We remain focused on the changes we could make in order to meet the evolving communication needs of members based on your feedback. After careful assessment, we determined that reducing production time frames from 12 days to nine days and increasing surge capacity during peak periods were the enhancements that presented the greatest potential impact while maintaining current resource and budget levels. We will reduce our production time frames by implementing several changes. Since the pandemic and moving forward, householder proofs are being produced digitally. This allows us to save, on average, one full day in our production process and $10,000 per year. By fall 2021, we will finish reallocating resources within PAMS to improve our front-end client service response times, verification, proofing and planning capacity. Over the summer, we will be creating a series of instructional videos to help members' employees prepare and submit printing requests, beginning with holiday greeting cards in the fall. Examples of topics the videos will cover include members' printing allocations and the differences between householders and constituency mail. By fall 2021, we will adjust planning mechanisms to move away from a first-come, first-served basis in favour of a more personalized approach. This means that we will take into account the location of the constituency—for example, whether it's remote and rural—and Canada Post delivery time frames to prioritize requests. Also by fall 2021, we will allow for more flexible submission deadlines during peak periods, while achieving the same production time frames and managing costs.Finally, following this meeting, we will modify two labour-intensive formats so they are better aligned with our production environment while still meeting client needs. These modifications are shown in the appendix included in your package. As part of our implementation strategy, members currently using these formats will be contacted individually to be informed of our modifications.By reducing the current average internal production timelines, we will also be helping to ensure the efficient and effective use of in-house equipment and resources, consistent quality at a reasonable cost and equitable service to all members.The second enhancement involves the establishment of framework agreements, and consultation with Canada Post, with western, central, eastern and northern print shops throughout Canada by fall 2021. This will ensure that consistent, timely and high-quality products are delivered through in-house production or by pre-approved external suppliers during peak periods when internal capacity is exceeded. External suppliers provide services at market-value cost and they are equipped to provide services and are located near a Canada Post distribution centre capable of receiving materials.[Translation]The implementation of these enhancements will have no impact on budgets, by-laws or policies. We will continue to monitor average production time frames, including, but not limited to, the number of days for each production stage, client response times, internal and external printing costs, and client feedback to ensure that these enhancements achieve the expected benefits we have shared with you today.We are happy to answer any questions you may have.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Mr. Richards.RebekahKletkeBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Thank you.I'll apologize in advance. I do have a number of questions. This has been a significant source of questions from my caucus, so I will apologize to all of my colleagues in advance. I'll try to keep it as brief as I can. The first question relates to one of the cases that I brought forward, which was partially responsible for the request for this report today. Thank you for the efforts you made to try to find ways to improve some of the services and efficiencies. That is very much appreciated. The case was about a colleague who ensured that he met all of the guidelines and jumped through the necessary hoops to make sure that he met all of the deadlines to submit a year-end mailing, which did seem to have to be submitted quite early, but he was able to do so. What happened was that the mailing ended up coming far before the end of the year. It was a Christmas-related thing, if I remember correctly, and it arrived way too early to be reasonably seen for Christmas. Obviously, that was a source of issues. I'm wondering if these changes—I'm pointing to a couple of things you mentioned, like a more personalized approach to delivery times and greater submission flexibility—would apply in this case. I think that's been one of the challenges. What we're talking about there is finding ways for members to ask that it be delivered as soon as it's ready, or they can ask for it to be delivered on a certain date, etc. Is that what you're driving at with personalized approaches and greater submission flexibility or is there more to that? Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1135)[English] That's exactly what we're driving at, Mr. Richards, and thank you for your question. The greater flexibility around submission time frames will be facilitated through that more personalized approach that we'll also be implementing concurrently. We're also hoping to improve our communications on those as well and to make them more responsive. I think those three items together will work and get at that specific case that you've raised.Thank you.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]Perfect. That's great.I've been there before, too, where, based on the average window, if I submit it here, it's probably going to arrive around there, and then sometimes it will come a little earlier and sometimes a little later.In a case like that, a member could now say, for example, that they want this to arrive on November 15. You would tell them that it might not be possible given timelines, or that it was going to be early, that it would be November 15 exactly, or that it would be November 15 or later if you couldn't meet it. Is that the flexibility we're talking about here? Members could say this is when they'd like it to arrive, and then you would have a conversation about whether or not it could be done?Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1135)[English]That is exactly the flexibility. Julie, do you want to add any further details?Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieJulieAllardJulieAllardJulie-AllardInterventionMs. Julie Allard (Director, Client Service Delivery, House of Commons): (1135)[English] Yes, thank you.Although we don't have any control on the Canada Post side, we'll definitely make that flexibility available.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryRebekahKletkeBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]Perfect. Great. I'm glad to hear it.I have a couple of other things. I'm going to raise the issue of the elimination of paper proofs. I've heard it from others, but it's been an issue for me personally. I have had times when I've designed something based on the folds and what people will see when they open the first fold, etc. That's a fairly important part of the mailing.I've had times when the way we've agreed to fold it, even with a paper proof, has not ended up being the way it has been sent, which has caused an issue. I'm concerned, actually, that not having a paper proof could exacerbate that problem. I understand the idea behind it—that it improves efficiency—but I would strongly argue that you should at least leave that option available to people. I know that I still want to see a paper proof to ensure that my fold is correct. I'm not sure how else to really ensure that, so I think you should at least leave the option for members to ask for that. It doesn't have to be an absolute requirement that's sent every time, but if a member wishes to have a paper proof, I think it should still be provided. Is that something you'd be open to?Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryJulieAllardJulieAllardJulieAllardJulie-AllardInterventionMs. Julie Allard: (1135)[English]Yes.Thank you, Mr. Richards. Absolutely the option will always be there. The default will be no paper proof, but you can also ask for a paper proof. That option will still be available. Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]That will be communicated to members so they're aware of that as well?Okay. That's great. Thank you.I have one last thing. In regard to the peak periods, when you get overburdened, you're talking about engaging with regional print shops to have some external....What would be the process to determine which regional print shops those would be? Is that going to be a competitive bidding process? How will you determine when you need to engage the regional print shops?Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryJulieAllardRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1135)[English]To your point, Mr. Richards, it would be a competitive process in partnership with our colleagues in finance who are responsible for our procurement process at the House, but we are also leveraging partnerships with other federal departments, such as Elections Canada or Stats Canada, and comparing lessons learned and who they might be using. It will be done through a competitive process, and it will be when our internal capacity is exceeded to keep the production time frames to the nine days that we are dropping it down to.We would be using those external providers when our internal production capacity is exceeded. Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]So on an ongoing basis you will monitor this, and whenever you see that you're exceeding the nine-day service standard, you will then engage regional print until you can catch up to that standard.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1140)[English]That's correct.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]Okay. That's great. Thank you. I really appreciate your report and your answers.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryRebekahKletkeAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]We will continue with Ms. DeBellefeuille.Ms. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1140)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.First of all, I would like to thank you for your presentation, Ms. Kletke.The Bloc Québécois caucus really has no problem at all with Printing and Mailing Services. Although not everything is in place, we are rather impressed by the fact that, already, production times often better the standards. We are therefore very satisfied with the Printing and Mailing Services. We are very happy with the change in format that you are proposing for constituency mail. We think it is a much more user-friendly model.Our only minor concerns relate to Canada Post services in the Upper North Shore area. The interface between the printing service, the post office and the delivery of mail to fellow citizens can mean five to seven weeks for mail delivery. We were wondering who we could talk to about this problem. Mail delivery is about the only problem we have, for example, in one area of the Manicouagan riding, where the post offices are further away.As for the rest, sincerely, I think you are proactive. I like your professional service. Your whole team really cares about producing high quality publications. Unlike my colleague, we like to receive digital proofs that we have to approve. For us, it speeds up the processing and printing, and satisfies us.I wanted to congratulate you on finding ways to get our publications out as quickly as possible, as always.I do have one small suggestion for you, though. You said you would make short videos to educate MPs or their staff about the new operation. I would add a video that could demonstrate the difference between a constituency letter and a group letter. MPs have a hard time grasping the difference, the rules around these two publications and their different time frames, among other things.We know that between a group mailing and a constituency mailing there can be less than 30 days, but this notion has not yet been absorbed. So you could take the opportunity to add that to your videos. For our part, as whips, we would direct our MPs and their staff to this short learning video so that they are familiar with the distinction between these two important parliamentary tools that are framed by different rules.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Are there any other questions or comments?[English] We've just had a request. There's a vote on right now. Some of you are whips and will want to make sure that you have your finger on the pulse of what's going on. We're going to suspend until after the vote. I encourage everyone to come back as soon as possible once the vote is done.[Translation] We want to continue our session with Mr. Stanton, Mr. Wright and Ms. Garrett, who are here to make a presentation. We don't want to bring them back again, because this is the second time their presentation has been postponed.Have a good vote. We will resume in about 30 minutes.Thank you.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[English] We'll get started.I know we've all been waiting with bated breath for these LTVP working group recommendations. We keep bringing them back, and that's why....I'll just pass it over to Mr. Stanton. An hon. member: The third time's the charm.Hon. Anthony Rota: That's right. The third time's the charm.Mr. Stanton, I'll leave it to you. We're looking forward to your presentation.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton (Chair, Working Group on the LTVP and the Centre Block Rehabilitation): (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.As chair of the long-term vision and plan working group, I am here today to update the board on our work from the last working group meetings and our recent meeting with the Senate LTVP subcommittee, and to seek endorsement of our recommendations regarding the proposed approach for the tarping of Centre Block, the construction site hoarding interpretive panels, and the PSPC public engagement strategy.[English]PSPC presented us with various options for the tarping of Centre Block. While Centre Block undergoes its rehabilitation, the construction work will be happening from basement to roof, inside and out, and access to all areas will be required for the work. General access will be provided by installing scaffolding all around the building, and, along with the access it provides, this will also assist in the restoration of the masonry on the building facades.As part of the masonry work, there needs to be protection from the elements and cold weather. The tarps on the scaffolding provide that protection, as well as enclosing the scaffolding for various other reasons. This is typical on most construction sites, as you have seen most recently on West Block, and can presently see on East Block, where it is enclosed with white tarps for the duration of the rehabilitation.The white tarping tends to be quite obvious and somewhat unattractive, especially in such an iconic location as Parliament Hill. What has become more common around the world, to enhance the visitor experience and general image of iconic heritage buildings while undergoing construction, is to print images of the hidden building on the tarp—essentially a trompe l'oeil, an optical illusion of sorts. It provides the continuity of experiencing the sense of place with a replica of the building facade.The working group was presented with three approaches to Centre Block in this respect. First was to colour the tarps on all four facades to match the colour of existing stone, if you will—a sand colour. You can see it in the upper right-hand corner of the slide. A second option was a front facade trompe l'oeil over the south facade facing Wellington Street and all of the other three walls in the stone sand colour. Finally, a third option was a trompe l'oeil on all four facades.The working group deliberated on the merits of all three options. We also received letters from mayors of Ottawa and Gatineau and the National Capital Commission strongly encouraging Parliament to support a trompe l'oeil on all four facades in order to maintain a positive visitor experience.We believe that a responsible approach is to recommend that all facades receive the trompe l'oeil images of Centre Block.The tarps will be used for the full duration of the project and are estimated by PSPC to cost in the neighbourhood of $3.8 million. This will preserve the iconic image of Centre Block for all who visit, both for Ottawa and Gatineau, and enhance the tourist experience of Parliament over the course of its rehabilitation.(1230)[Translation]In June 2019, parliamentarians endorsed the approach to construct hoarding on the Hill for the renovation of the Parliament Building. The proposal comprised panels with large monochromatic photos interspersed with interpretive panels and wayfinding to be installed across the parliamentary lawn. Once the interpretive content was developed, it was expected that PSPC would return to seek final approval on the panels. The working group was presented with fully developed detailed information for the bilingual interpretive panels, as well as images. The panels will convey information under the following themes: Parliamentary theme; centre block rehabilitation theme; Parliament Hill timeline and gathering place theme; indigenous theme; wayfinding theme.With the exception of the indigenous-themed panels, which still require wider consultation, the WG supports the approval of the other panels, which we believe are appropriate and informative. A full-scale mock-up of the panels is currently on site to allow for review. We recommend that the board endorse the construction hoarding panel proposal so that PSPC can proceed to make and install the interpretive hoarding this summer. PSPC also presented its approach to public engagement for the Centre Block project and the LTVP. The WG reviewed the detailed information provided and recommends that the board endorse the proposed public survey and plan that PSPC has developed.[English] At our meeting of March 12, we were provided with a progress update on the entrance sequence design for the Parliament welcome centre. The members of the independent design review panel attended to advise and answer questions. The working group fully supported the direction of the design and made note of the areas for further development. The working group is pleased with the progress and excited about the design concepts we have seen.Further to the meeting, the working group has agreed that consultation with the Senate would be appropriate on the proposed Centre Block infill options. A joint meeting of the House of Commons working group and the Senate LTVP subcommittee took place on April 7, 2021, during which we had a fulsome discussion on the potential infill above the Hall of Honour. The glazed roof enclosure of the light court above that Hall of Honour provides an opportunity to create new space above the Hall of Honour on three floors. The enclosed light court will also assist in achieving project goals on sustainability and accessibility. There was general consensus for the new space on the sixth-floor level of that infill to be used for shared parliamentarian space. On May 28 we met a second time with the Senate LTVP to consider food services and the placement of the cafeteria, as well as a potential café for the public in the Parliament welcome centre. We also discussed the possible uses of the fourth and fifth floor of the infill. We agreed to continue these discussions at our next joint meeting, where we will look at more detailed schematic designs for each of the fourth and fifth floors.The working group has been very engaged in a detailed review of the issues and proposed schematic design approach for Centre Block and the new welcome centre. As you can see by the slides, the progress around the excavation continues in a fulsome way. We continue to be confident that parliamentarians' requirements are being taken into consideration. We are being kept abreast of issues and site construction work. We are very pleased with the progress and the opportunity to be involved in this project. The working group anticipates another meeting later this month. I will return to provide another update, as appropriate.One further item to update you on is the progress on the Block 2 architectural design competition. Block 2, you will remember, is situated just across from the main lawn of the Commons, across Wellington, essentially between Metcalfe on one end and O'Connor on the other, and bordered by Sparks Street and Wellington. As you may remember, I was tasked with representing the House of Commons as part of the parliamentary portion of the competition jury. I am joined by Mr. MacKinnon, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, and also Senator Plett, who represents the Senate of Canada. All of us are parliamentary jurors. Recent activities included closing the PSPC request for qualifications on this project on March 2, 2021, with 38 respondents submitting their candidacy to be considered for the Block 2 competition. (1235) The competitors are world-class design firms, including a diverse range of Canadian firms and other consortiums from around the world. From the 38 submissions, PSPC narrowed the participants down to 12, and that's based on the competition criteria. An announcement on the 12 successful competitors will be forthcoming, likely later this month.The first jury colloquium was held virtually on April 16, and I had the pleasure of meeting the other 26 jurors. I'm impressed with the diversity and calibre of the jurors. This is a very accomplished group of professionals with a range of design and technical expertise. The objective of the first colloquium was to meet and understand the procedure and rules of the competition and the role of the jury, to elect a jury chair, and to review and endorse the competition brief.The chair is Bruce Haden, an architect and urban designer from Vancouver, nominated by the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada and supported by the jury. The vice-chair is Anne McIlroy, an architect and urban designer from Toronto.The competition brief is the central document that will be provided to the 12 proponents, and it is, essentially, a complete and thorough description of the project and our expectations for the design. It describes the site, the constraints and opportunities, and most importantly, the requirements. The jury chair has been actively working with PSPC, and the jury and will be endorsing the final edits to that competition brief. I understand that part has now been completed. The final version will be out to the 12 selected competitors in due course.The next step for the jury will be a three-day workshop in September this year, when we will evaluate the design concepts submitted by the 12 participating competitors. The jury will be supported by a team of technical experts, including from the House of Commons administration. Of those 12, the jury will choose six short-listed participants who will proceed to stage two of the competition.[Translation]The final design proposals for stage 2 are expected in spring 2022. Thank you. I am happy to take questions or elaborate on any of the information provided.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1235)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Stanton.Mr. Julian will ask the first question.[English]Mr. Julian, please go ahead.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1235)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.It was truly an honour to attend Mr. Stanton's surprise party last week in the House of Commons. Everything that was said by everyone about you, Mr. Stanton, was from the heart. I thank you for your exemplary service, and we are also enormously grateful for the dossiers you have taken on outside the House, such as this one.You mentioned the tarps for the Centre Block. The working group recommended the option of putting them on all four exterior facades, which will cost $3.8 million.I would like to know the cost of the other three options, before I speak again.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1235)[Translation]Thank you, Mr Julian. I also thank you for your kind words.The first option, which is to install neutral or sand-coloured tarps to blend in with the environment, would cost about $1.5 million. The second option, which is to use a trompe l'oeil for the south facade, which faces Wellington Street, would cost about $2.6 million. As for the third option, you already know the costs. There was a $1.2-million difference between options 2 and 3. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1240)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English]Yes, it is true that this $2-million difference, going from a very spartan approach of $1.2 million to a more elaborate approach, is more money. I certainly concede that.My thinking is this. Having been to sites around the world and seeing how in Europe, for example, they preserve the monuments as they are renovating them by putting in place tarps so that people can actually see and envisage the monument itself, and seeing how tourists take pictures of that.... You wouldn't think that a tarp would be an attraction, but it is, and we know this. That's why this is increasingly the practice around the world when people travel to these sites. It's to make sure that they get the impression of what they see, even if it is under renovation.Now, my riding is as far from Ottawa as it comes, and when my constituents go to Ottawa, it is a big deal. It's often a once-in-a-lifetime trip. I've intervened before on making sure that we keep things accessible. As you recall, Mr. Speaker, I intervened so that we kept the Library of Parliament open, which is not being renovated, so that constituents who come from British Columbia, Newfoundland and Labrador or Nunavut on that once-in-a-lifetime trip can actually access and visit the site.Even though it is a significant amount of money—I don't doubt that—it seems to me that it is worth that additional expense. Families will often spend years saving up for that trip of a lifetime to come to Parliament Hill, only to see a very plain tarp that doesn't in any way reflect what they may have come to Ottawa to see on that once-in-a-lifetime trip. I tend to be quite critical if we're spending money that is not needed. I think that in this case it is an expenditure that we do need to make, and I certainly support the recommendation. Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1240)[English]Are there any other comments or questions?Mr. Richards.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1240)[English]Are we just talking about the trompe l'oeil or are we talking about the presentation?Okay. In that case, first of all, I will say that I appreciate the option that has been provided here for us. Mr. Julian mentioned that for many people it is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to come here to Ottawa. I know that certainly the last couple of years in particular have been incredibly hard on the tourism industry. Obviously, anything we can do to not take away further from visitor opportunities and experiences when and if they do choose to come to Ottawa is important. Often when they come to Ottawa, they'll go to other parts of the country as well, so I think it is important, and I appreciate that suggestion.In regard to some of the other items, there were a number, the welcome centre being one, and there's the light court area, where the Senate seems to be suggesting fairly substantial additional expenditures to accommodate what they say are their needs. I'm not certain that there's agreement that those are necessarily needed. In fact, the minister even has indicated that maybe she doesn't feel there's a need for some of the things the Senate is suggesting.I'm wondering about that. How does that get resolved? What is done there? It does seem that there are maybe some fairly substantial requests being made there on their part. If there's a feeling amongst many that they're not needed, is there something this board can do to help facilitate appropriate decisions there?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1245)[English] Thank you, Mr. Richards.To your first point with respect to the discussions, and to Mr. Julian as well, you have each summarized the very things that the working group discussed with respect to the trompe l'oeil, the notion that this is first and foremost for the incredible number of visitors who come not just to Ottawa but to Gatineau. This was strongly reinforced by the mayors, and the NCC was very clear on that. I think it was a persuasive argument and you have summarized it well.On the other point, with respect to the working group on the House of Commons side, we are partners. The two chambers share responsibility for parliamentarians' input into the renovation plan. We have had two very constructive and excellent meetings. As soon as we can organize it, we will have another meeting to continue those discussions on the items I mentioned.Clearly, for the final decision on points where there is disagreement, we are also of the view that the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, can and will, as you have seen this week, relay her concerns with respect to some of these issues.Our working group won't necessarily be taking up that discussion, but I am sure that a number of those concerns will be topics of discussion between Minister Anand and our counterparts on the Senate side. We will continue to work co-operatively and constructively with them and to share our views on some of these issues candidly, as we have and will continue to do. Ultimately, however, the minister will take up those considerations.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[English]Are there any questions or comments?I take it that we're all in accordance with these recommendations.Very good.Thank you very much, Mr. Stanton, and thank you to your team. Thank you for your patience as well.Now we will go to number 7.[Translation] This is the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying.[English]We will hand it over to Mr. Janse.Mr. Janse.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctSpecial Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in DyingBruceStantonSimcoe NorthEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1245)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. A few weeks ago, the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying was established. You have before you the tentative budget request of $50,000.[English]As this is a joint committee—Senate and House—the budget would be divided using the usual 70-30 formula.The House portion would be $35,000, and the recommendation is that this funding be taken from the envelope for all standing committees.Thank you.Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in DyingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[English]Are there any questions or comments?Seeing none, are we all in accordance with the recommendation? I see everyone nodding their heads in approval.We will continue.We are on number 8, the annual report on the members of the House of Commons workplace harassment and violence prevention policy for 2020-21.Ms. Laframboise.Annual Report on the House of Commons Policy on Preventing and Addressing Harassment for 2020-2021HarassmentMembers of the House of Commons Workplace Harassment and Violence Prevention PolicyEricJanseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1245)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good afternoon, everyone.I am here today to present to the Board of Internal Economy the annual statistical report on the Members of the House of Commons Workplace Harassment and Violence Prevention Policy for 2020-2021.As you know, the Chief Human Resources Officer of the House of Commons is required to provide an annual report of cases under this policy.[English]During the period covered by this report, two cases were managed by our office. We feel that the decrease in the number of cases this year is most likely a result of the pandemic and the current work-at-home situation.A total of 22 inquiries were also submitted to the “respectful workplace” team. These inquiries involve things like obtaining information on the policy, accessing conflict resolution resources, coaching, reviewing of options, etc.The annual report also speaks to the communication, training and awareness activities that have been undertaken and that will continue.A communication from the Office of the Speaker will be sent to all members to notify them of the publication of this report. The availability of the report will also be announced on Twitter. In addition, the report will be available on the www.ourcommons.ca and sourced platforms.I'm happy to answer any questions the board may have at this time.Annual Report on the House of Commons Policy on Preventing and Addressing Harassment for 2020-2021HarassmentMembers of the House of Commons Workplace Harassment and Violence Prevention PolicyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1250)[English]Are there any questions or comments?Not seeing any, is everyone in accordance with the recommendation?[Translation]Everyone concurs.[English] We're going take two minutes to go in camera. We'll take care of the last issue, and then we can go. [Proceedings continue in camera]MichelleLaframboise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0172nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, May 13, 2021Le jeudi 13 mai 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTMay 13, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 017NUMBER 017NUMÉRO 017017130520212021/05/13 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHonn. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1100)[Translation]We are beginning the 17th meeting of the Board of Internal Economy.[English] The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the previous meeting, on April 22. Are there any comments on that?[Translation] Mrs. DeBellefeuille has the floor, and she will be followed by Mr. Holland.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Qébécois): (1100)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I have a question. We've noticed that over the past two weeks there have been significant technological problems with interpretation, whether in the House of Commons or in committees. Last week, we were having difficulty going from French to English or English to French. This week, we're noticing that it's difficult to go from French to English.Can someone explain the nature of the problem? Is it a technological or specific problem?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1100)[Translation]Mr. Aubé could answer that question.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1100)[Translation]Thank you for your question.Mrs. DeBellefeuille, in preparation for the meeting, we always look at our statistics. Statistically, it's clear that we have had some issues in the past two weeks, but I would still say that the number of incidents this week is down from the beginning of April. This week, we've had some technical difficulties in the House.We had technical difficulties in the House on Monday, and some difficulties this week in committees. As you know, we are in a very difficult time to do infrastructure maintenance. We're trying our best to resolve these issues in the evening, and we are on our way to a solution. We're trying to maintain the functional environment of the House and committees. We're working on it day and night, I assure you.However, it's true that we saw five or six incidents in the House on Monday this week. We noted a few incidents on Tuesday in the House and in committees. That's more than normal, compared to past weeks. We have some solutions, but it's a matter of finding the time to do the maintenance. It's very difficult right now. We can only work on it at night and on weekends, but we're trying to make the changes. We're doing everything possible. The technical difficulties are with some of the equipment.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1105)[Translation]Thank you.If I may, Mr. Speaker, I'll ask another question.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1105)[Translation]Certainly.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1105)[Translation]It's a question for Mr. Janse.Mr. Janse, you sent all the whips' offices your desire, in response to the clerks' request, to hold virtual rather than hybrid meetings in committees. Some clerks would be at home or elsewhere, but not on site.The Bloc Québécois made an effort to ask members who liked attending committee meetings in person not to do so, because you had asked us to. We found that it was not necessarily a directive or an instruction that was followed by the other parties. We've asked our members to do that, because we want to listen to the clerks, as you've asked. However, we see that members from other parties are physically sitting in the meeting rooms. It seems difficult for them to comply.We in the Bloc Québécois have strictly respected what you asked for, but when we return from the break, some members will probably come and attend committees in person. I wanted to warn you of that. We've made our effort. I think that when we return from the break, some members will want to use their parliamentary privilege to be physically present in committee. It's not out of disrespect for the clerks, but in order to work better.For them, it's a more efficient way of working. I wanted to formally notify you of this at the BIE. I'm proud to say that we made our effort when you asked us to.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1105)[Translation]Thank you very much for the information, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.I'd like to make a small clarification. We did not request that members not come into the committee room. We only notified the whips' offices that we had given our clerks the choice of coming in person or working from home. A large number of committee clerks still come into the committee room to work, but others have taken up the offer to work from home. We're still here to see members, either virtually or in person, in committee rooms.Perhaps the message you are referring to is about next week's meetings, next week technically being a break week, although many committees will be in session. When we talked with other departments and our partners, some questions arose about resources. We wondered if the whips would consider the possibility of some committees meeting only virtually, given that it will be a break week and most members will be at home. If no members attend in person, it's going to require fewer resources, so all departments will be better able to accommodate all meetings requested for next week.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]All right.The Bloc Québécois will support you on this. No problem.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1110)[Translation]Thank you very much.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Thank you.[English] We'll continue with Mr. Holland, followed by Mr. Richards.Mr. Holland.EricJanseMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland (Chief Government Whip): (1110)[English] I'm not addressing this matter. I believe Mr. Julian had his hand up. If either Peter or Blake has something related to this matter, I'll wait. I don't want to interrupt the flow.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Okay.Mr. Richards is addressing a different matter as well.Mr. Julian, are you addressing the same matter or a different matter?MarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1110)[Translation]It's about the same matter raised by Mrs. DeBellefeuille.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Okay, go ahead.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1110)[Translation]I just want to say briefly that we know very well that we are in the third wave. The idea of having exclusively virtual meetings, in my opinion, is simply a workplace health and safety issue. So, we support the idea of limiting as much as possible the exposure of employees and members to the variants circulating in this third wave, which is proving to be extremely dangerous across the country.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English]Mr. Richards.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1110)[English]I'll stay on the list for my other items—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Yes, that's no problem. Go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]—but I'll address this point quickly.I'm supportive of the way the administration has approached this. They've given clerks the option to be there in person if they choose or to be there virtually. I think all people need to be given the choice to do what they feel is safest. It sounds like that's what the administration has done, so I'm supportive of what they have suggested.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Very good. Thank you.Now we'll go to Mr. Holland, followed by Mr. Richards.Mr. Holland.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1110)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First, on that point, I would wholeheartedly concur with Mr. Julian that, wherever possible in this third wave, we need to avoid coming in. I understand there are challenges for all of us, but this is a matter of public health and safety. It's a matter of the security and health of people who work at the House of Commons, and it's a matter of risk for members traversing provincial borders. Hopefully, folks will take that into consideration, as we try to navigate through this global health crisis. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to speak at this point, if I could, on a matter arising from the previous meeting, as noted in the minutes.In the previous meeting, we had a very lengthy discussion in camera with respect to the member for Pontiac and the terrible incident that occurred with the photo that was taken of him during private proceedings. I'm not going to have any questions for the House legal teams, so my comments here are not in any way in camera. This is a very troubling incident because it is.... Let's start in the ways in which it's different from what we have dealt with before. In the thrust and parry of partisan politics, we are all used to our characters being besmirched or having our ideas attacked. Before we come to this place, we have an idea that's going to happen. That's not what happened here. This was a member of Parliament who, in a private proceeding, made a decision to take a video or a picture and then share that image somewhere. That was an image of another member naked. That image was then disseminated across the planet. Because of that decision, a member of Parliament and his family were subjected to the image of him naked on late night talk shows in England and the United States, and on social media sites around the world. To date, the member of Parliament in question, Sébastien Lemire, has refused to say where he sent that photograph or what his intent was in sending it. And that matters. Now, fellow board members, there is only one place that can adjudicate our own behaviour. That's it. We're it. If this were any other workplace.... When I headed up the Heart and Stroke Foundation, if an employee took a naked photo of another employee against the will of that employee and disseminated it, I can guarantee that an apology and walking away as if nothing happened wouldn't be the end of the matter. I can assure you that no workplace in this nation—Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]Mr. Speaker—MarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1115)[English]—would accept that as an outcome.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order.MarkHollandHon.AjaxAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]I believe we have a point of order. [Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille has the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]Yes, I have a point of order.I don't understand. It's a very important matter, I agree, and I hope we have time to grant it the importance it deserves, but it's already an item on the agenda for the portion of the meeting in camera. So, I have a lot of trouble understanding why Mr. Holland is starting the discussion on this during the public portion of the meeting, because he is well aware of it.So I'm asking you to rule on this, Mr. Speaker, because we're not following the agenda right now.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]It's a matter related to the business arising from the previous meeting. It was a little mixed up, but we let it go.[English]Mr. Holland, I'm not sure exactly how you would like to proceed right now. Would you like to withdraw and then come back? Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1115)[English]No, absolutely not, Mr. Speaker. There's nothing that I'm saying that needs to be put in camera. The process of in camera is not to hide matters. It is not to bury matters. It is not to avoid dealing with matters. The purpose of going in camera is to allow matters to be discussed that cannot be discussed publicly. One of the reasons the Board of Internal Economy made its meeting public was specifically so the deliberations of this body could be seen by the general public. It would be a violation of that principle to move this matter in camera. There is absolutely nothing I am saying now, or that I will say, that in any way needs to be in camera. And that is why I will continue.The problem that I have is—Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]If I could, at this point, because we had determined that this was an item that was in camera, and it is—Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1115)[English] Mr. Speaker, I never agreed to that. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]I'll refer to our legal team to comment on it, just so that we're not breaking any rules and to make sure that we're within our legal parameters. Mr. Dufresne, would you like to comment on this?Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxPhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne (Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons): (1115)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When we were reviewing the items for consideration, it seemed to us that the discussion could touch upon powers and legally available avenues for the board to deal with the situation involving use of House of Commons resources. It could give rise to discussion about scope and legal consideration about those powers. These types of discussions could normally involve receiving or discussing legal advice. Therefore, as a precautionary measure, the recommendation was that this be considered in camera. The Parliament of Canada Act does have a presumption that the board meetings are in public, and it is only in stated circumstances that it is in camera. Those circumstances include matters subject to solicitor-client privilege and when legal advice will be obtained. The board can discuss matters in camera and make its decisions public after the fact. If the discussion does not involve the giving or the receiving of legal advice, then it could take place in public. It is also possible for a member to state their position on something that they would want the board to consider at a later stage. Matters covered by solicitor-client privilege have to be discussed in camera. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Mr. Dufresne, based on what was just said, I want to make sure whether Mr. Holland can continue or cannot continue. My impression is that based on what you're saying he can continue and it won't be an infraction. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentPhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne: (1115)[English]If Mr. Holland does not disclose confidential information or legal advice or seek or share, he can. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Mr. Holland, I'd ask you to continue, then, please. PhilippeDufresneMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1115)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Certainly, as noted, I'll be careful not to cross into matters that are legal in nature, namely any legal advice that might have been given on this matter.The situation that we are in now, as in any workplace where a naked photograph had been taken without the consent of another employee and then sent out by email, is that there would be action taken. Let's consider what reasonable action would be taken.First, mens rea would need to be established. What was the intent both in taking the photograph and in disseminating it? We know there were only about two hours between when Sébastien took this photograph and it appeared in social media by both Chris Nardie and Brian Lilley. There were about two hours between when he took that photograph and when it first appeared on social media.The question is: How did it get there?We know, and it's been well established, that Sébastien Lemire, as the Bloc has said, would have no relationship with these media outlets, so mens rea, intent, is extremely important. I would ask that he appear before the board in an in camera session to answer what his intention was when he sent this. What was his intention when he took the photograph? When he sent it, did he send it to a reporter? Did he send it to another MP? Did he send it somewhere where he should have known that it would wind up in the public domain?It's entirely unacceptable for him to send it to a private individual, but if he sent it somewhere where he knew that the image of the member for Pontiac would be used and sent around to humiliate him, that is not an acceptable tactic. I have had members from both sides of the House come to me and ask, “What does that mean for the lobby? If I've had a red-eye flight, and I come into the lobby, and a member of Parliament can come in and take an unflattering picture of me with my shirt dishevelled, perhaps my bra showing, or perhaps my underwear showing, is that now fair game?”What we're saying is that as long as you say sorry, it's no problem.Imagine if this were a female colleague. What would our discussion be? Would it be a month later? A month later, would we be saying that maybe we'd do something about this, maybe we wouldn't?What is owed to the member of Pontiac? What is owed to his family? What lines do we have as an organization? At what point do we say that there are limits to partisan engagement? The naked body of a fellow colleague, I would say, is an absolute limit. Today we're establishing a precedent for how such a matter is dealt with. I think that precedent must be expunged. I think the idea that a member can take a naked photograph of another member and disseminate it around the world is wholly and entirely unacceptable.We have to understand what Mr. Lemire's intent was in sending this message, to whom he sent it to, and to whom that recipient then sent it to and if they happen to be a member of our organization, so that their actions can appropriately be captured, because that all speaks to the damages that were done and, frankly, the consequences that should be faced. Right now, the consequence faced by Mr. Lemire for this terrible action is nothing—not a thing.I would request, Mr. Speaker, that Mr. Lemire appear before this body in camera so that he could be appropriately questioned for the actions he took. I think it is a minimum action that any reasonable organization would take. We are the body that holds responsibility for that action.With that, I'll make a request officially that Mr. Lemire appear before this committee in an in camera session to answer questions relating to his taking and disseminating of that photograph.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]Are there any comments or questions from the other members?Go ahead, Mr. Richards.MarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]I do understand the clarification we received earlier allowing Mr. Holland the opportunity to speak to the matter, because it arose from previous minutes. Now we're starting to get into some debate and discussion about potential remedies and things like that. I think we are now starting to get into where there would be potential during this discussion and debate about the motion—I don't know if he's made a motion to this effect or what has just happened—where we would be talking about legal matters. Even by establishing the very precedent that we have jurisdiction here as a board, we could be getting into where there are questions that could arise here about asking for legal opinions, etc. I do believe that then falls under what needs to be in camera.I'm not certain, but my suspicion is that now, at this point, it probably is best to defer that to the in camera portion of the meeting. I'll seek some guidance on that, but it seems to me that it's probably the best course of action there.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English] I just want to clarify. Are you asking that we move this in camera?Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1125)[English] I'm suggesting that we get some better guidance. At this point, because we need to establish.... It's actually a legal matter to even establish whether we have jurisdiction here. There are many questions that arise then that could, in fact, fall into what the law clerk was telling us would then be the in camera portion, based on the decision made before the meeting that that would be where the discussion should take place. I'm not suggesting that we move in camera now, but perhaps that this be deferred to the in camera portion where it was originally intended to be discussed, because I think we are now getting into.... Mr. Holland was able to make his comments, because we weren't falling into the discussion about jurisdictional and legal issues. A lot of the discussion that might now flow, I think, would be a better fit into the in camera portion. We will start to get into some pretty grey areas otherwise, right? That's what I'm suggesting, that we defer it until its scheduled as part of an in camera meeting. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]I have two more members to speak, but before we go to Mr. Julian and Mr. Rodriguez, I'm going to defer to Mr. Patrice to give us a legal opinion on what we're doing right now, or where we're at to make sure that everything is in line.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1125)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It won't be a legal opinion, because I won't speak in my capacity as a lawyer.Mr. Richards raises a good point about the grey area. Obviously, based on what the law clerk has previously said, if the board is of the view that it can have the discussion and make a decision on the motion presented by Mr. Holland without receiving, asking for or discussing legal advice, it can do so in public.If, on the other hand, members want to receive legal advice and discuss it, then the Parliament of Canada Act and the prescribed regulations and bylaws that have been passed by the board come into play. The meeting should then proceed in camera in accordance with the bylaws.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1125)[English]If I could add to that, because I think I still have the floor, Mr. Speaker, I can certainly imagine that there are some questions of a legal nature that I would have in order to establish where we should be going with this. I would imagine others will probably be in the same boat, because there are many questions about what we can and can't do that I would want to have answers to, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. That's why I made the suggestion that that's probably what we should be doing.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]I'm going to continue then. There's a fine line that we're stepping on here.I'll let Mr. Julian go ahead, followed by Mr. Rodriguez, Mr. Holland and Madame DeBellefeuille.Mr. Julian, please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. I listened very attentively to Mr. Holland, and I certainly have a lot of sympathy for his views, and the importance of coming to terms with this issue. There's no doubt that there was a pretty profound violation that took place. That being said, at the end of his comments, he very clearly stepped to the issue that raises a whole range of legal concerns. There's no doubt that any further discussion really needs to be taking place, as was foreseen on our agenda, in the latter part of the meeting.There are a whole bunch of legal ramifications, of course. Those need to be considered, and I think the direction that we've gotten from the legal adviser to the BOIE is that we should be proceeding in camera to have that discussion later on. We do have a number of other items that need to be discussed in public, and then we should move to the in camera portion of the meeting.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]We'll go to Mr. Rodriguez, followed by Madame DeBellefeuille, and then come back. We have some different interpretations here.(1130)[Translation]Mr. Rodriguez, you have the floor.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1130)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, I feel like we're complicating matters. Mr. Holland is simply asking that Mr. Lemire appear in camera.We all know that what happened is extremely serious, and that it had a huge impact on Mr. Amos's life. We have to be able to say that there are limits in politics as well and that the line has obviously been crossed.We're not having a legal discussion today, or a discussion about solicitor-client relationships or anything of that nature. All Mr. Holland is asking is that the committee call Mr. Lemire to appear, and there is no question that he has the authority to do so. In fact, recently, on several occasions, the committee has called individuals to appear before the Board of Internal Economy to explain themselves.I would point out that when an in camera meeting is recommended, it is done under section 3.1 of the Board of Internal Economy Rules of Practice and Procedure, which I will read to you:The Board must hold a meeting or portion of a meeting in camera in circumstances where it considers:(a) matters subject to solicitor-client or litigation privilege; or(b)sensitive matters respecting the health or family situation of an identifiable individual.This matter has nothing to do with either of those things. We're simply looking at whether or not we should call Mr. Lemire to appear in camera to come and explain himself. I feel we should vote on it.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Thank you.Mrs. DeBellefeuille has the floor, and then it will be Mr. Holland's turn.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1130)[Translation]I'd like us to exercise caution.The April 14 incident is unprecedented, and it is an important matter that we need to address, I agree. However, we should not set any more precedents on the Board of Internal Economy, the BOIE.Since I have been on the Board of Internal Economy, all the more personal discussions that involved members who had broken the rules have been held in camera. I don't want to minimize this event, but I have a lot of questions about Mr. Lemire's potential appearance before the BOIE. Mr. Holland says we need to define what his intent was, and a member's intent is a legal concept.I do not consider the Board of Internal Economy to be a court of law and it has no authority to define an individual's intent. I myself would like to ask a lot of legal questions. This isn't a refusal or a desire to hide anything on my part. To suggest otherwise would be to imply very bad intentions on my part, and I sensed some suggestion of that earlier. I simply want to ensure that the BOIE does not become a body used for political and partisan purposes. I want to ensure that we maintain our usual working methods when dealing with important and confidential matters involving members and their personal lives.Of course, this event has had an impact on Mr. Amos's personal life, and I can assure you that it has also had an impact on Mr. Lemire's life. So I would prefer that we avoid setting a bad precedent and get to the bottom of this event in camera. Like Mr. Richards and other colleagues around the table, I also have legal concerns about the implications of this appearance and the nature of the questions that might be asked. So I feel this appearance should be in camera. I am cautioning us against turning this committee into a tribunal. That would set a precedent, and when future events occur, it will be difficult for us to sort out what should be dealt with in camera and what should be dealt with in public. I understand Mr. Rodriguez's comments, which are based on the Board of Internal Economy's Rules of Practice and Procedure. However, as we have been saying all along, we're managing a new and exceptional situation and we need to be open to the possibility of managing this incident in a new way. I strongly suggest that we meet together at the end of the meeting, as planned, to have a substantive discussion in camera. That way, we can ask all our questions to the law clerk, to the IT staff, to all the people around us who are providing support and advice. That's what I encourage us to do.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.[English] We'll go to Mr. Holland. I believe you had your hand up.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1135)[English]I did. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to start with the intention of moving the proceedings of the Board of Internal Economy into public. The Parliament of Canada Act is clear that the deliberations of this body should be public. The exception that has been indicated is where we are seeking confidential legal advice for having a discussion that would preclude the proceedings from being public.That question before us right now is whether Mr. Lemire is going to appear before this body to be accountable for his actions. Yes or no?This body has answered the same question regarding the actions of other members many times—if we're talking about precedents—even within the last year or last several years. Certainly in my time here, this body has publicly said that it would have, in camera, members come before this body to be accountable for their action. Why? Because this is the only body that can take action.Certainly, I believe that Canadians have a right to know how we comport ourselves as a workplace. They need to hear this discussion. No element of what I'm saying deals with any matter that is legal. It is very simple question: yes or no? Should Mr. Lemire come before this body, as other members have in the past, to be held to account for his actions, and for us to ask him what his intentions were? Or, are we not treating him the same as we've treated other members who have engaged in problematic behaviour, which we've dealt with at this body?I think that's an important thing for folks to hear, because being in camera is not an opportunity to avoid public scrutiny or to hide from difficult conversations. It is a tool to be able to ask scoped and direct legal questions, of which none are pertinent to the question of accountability and the presence of Mr. Lemire before this body.Again, Mr. Speaker, I point to the fact that we have a scoped and direct matter before us, and that is the appearance of Mr. Lemire before this body, as others have done, to answer for the actions he took, and for that proceeding to be in camera.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]Mr. Julian, I first want to give a little synopsis of where I believe we are.We have a motion asking us to request Mr. Lemire's presence in front of the board, in camera, to find out general information about what happened and to see what we can discover. The issue, before it comes to a question of the board, is that we do have two members I've heard from so far who have some legal concerns about doing that. I'm proposing that maybe we should go in camera to discuss the legal matters and then come back out and make a decision on whether to invite Mr. Lemire. That decision is a public one. The legal matters—the questions that can be asked—would have to be in camera. Does that sum up where we are? Does that make sense?Based on what I just said, I guess, Mr. Julian seems to have a question on this. Then we'll go to Mr. Richards.Mr. Julian.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1135)[English] The legal advice we've gotten is very clear: there are a whole range of legal questions that come up. Again, as I mentioned, I'm very sympathetic to Mr. Holland's concern—which we all share—about what happened and how best to deal with it.There are three things that I think need to be brought forward. First, there are a number of other ways this whole issue can be approached beyond the Board of Internal Economy. There is the procedure and House affairs committee, and there is the House of Commons and you, Mr. Speaker, as well as the group of whips who get together on these kinds of issues.Mr. Holland did raise the fact that on financial issues, we have in the past called upon members to step forward to meet in camera with the BOIE. I'm not aware of any situation beyond those financial issues.... Where the Board of Internal Economy comes from is, of course, the administration and the administration of parliamentary resources, so I'm not aware of precedents around that.The third question, which is an important one that Peter Milliken was so very straightforward on in his years as Speaker is that the Board of Internal Economy functions as a board by consensus. That is an extremely important component of the board's function and mandate. Peter Milliken was always very clear that we have to look for a consensus on how to deal with the issues that come before us, particularly when it comes to the administration of parliamentary resources.Those are all critical elements. I'm glad Mr. Holland brought this issue forward. I do think we have a number of other elements to consider on the agenda, and we also have a discussion that is already on the agenda by consensus following when we move to in camera. There are so many questions, particularly legal ones, that have come up, and our legal advice has been that those questions be explored and answered in camera.I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that the meeting proceed as planned.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]There's been another motion put forward. Do we have consensus to proceed with that before we go to...?I know we have Mr. Richards and Mr. Holland, as well, who have a few comments to make.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]I'm, I think, almost completely in agreement with what Mr. Julian just indicated. I understand that your thought, Mr. Speaker, had been potentially to go in camera to ask legal questions about Mr. Lemire's possible appearance here, and then come back and make a decision. However, I think that's a difficult way to approach it, frankly. Mr. Julian has outlined quite well how there are a number of different potential remedies, different aspects to this that are also tied together, and I think it's difficult to make a decision about potentially just one part of what the discussion would be. I don't see how that would work practically.I think the administration suggested what they did for a reason, and I do think we have a number of other agenda items that we would deal with far more quickly than we would with this one. They have laid it out in such a way that I think it does work best for this meeting, and it would also allow us to ensure that we don't start to get into areas where.... It might be difficult to make this decision without getting into some of the other discussions about this matter, and there are a lot of legal questions related to this.If you look at the section of the Parliament of Canada Act that governs what the term “in camera” means, one of the other matters relates to security. When we start to talk about some of the things that we would be looking to follow up with regard to Mr. Lemire, I think those delve into that area as well. So I think we're getting into a couple of different areas where we would have difficulty discussing this without being in camera—even to follow the Parliament of Canada Act.I really do believe that, as Mr. Julian has indicated, we should follow the agenda that's been set out and recommended by the administration, rather than trying to differ from that and deal with one piece of one item separately. I just don't think it makes any sense, Mr. Speaker.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Thank you.We'll go to Mr. Holland, [Translation]Next, Mr. Deltell will have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1140)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Your suggestion is a good one. It makes pre-eminent sense that the board can go in camera for the questions that are related to in camera matters, and then it can come out of camera to deal with the matters that don't belong in camera.Let's be very clear: The matter of accountability and whether Mr. Lemire appears before this body is not in camera. That is a question of whether this body wants to take its responsibilities, as it has in other matters.To Mr. Julian's point, it is absolutely not just financial matters that this body has dealt with, with respect to other members. Mr. Julian will recall Mr. Weir. Mr. Julian will recall Mr. Kang. Mr. Julian will recall many other instances where we were dealing with the behaviour of a member that was non-fiduciary, that had to do with their comportment in relation to other employees, to people in their employ. The thing that makes this situation difficult is that this is one of our own colleagues who did this. Just as one of our colleagues did this to another employee and that matter was before this body, this is unfortunately a situation where Mr. Lemire has done this to another member of Parliament. We don't know if he sent this image to yet another member of Parliament who might also have participated in that. We are the body ultimately responsible for that. I think, and I would hope, that all members of this body, once their questions are exhausted in camera that actually relate to in camera matters, would want to demonstrate that we are a workplace that does not allow this behaviour. Certainly we would condemn this behaviour in any other workplace. Would we not want to demonstrate to Canadians that we did everything that we could reasonably do to ensure that taking naked images, private naked images of colleagues and sending them all around the world, is inappropriate behaviour? Certainly that is not something that belongs in camera. That's a basic statement of values.What I heard mostly today is about the need to talk about legal things and go in camera, but I haven't heard a lot about that principle. Mr. Amos is here today. He's listening to this. There's a lot of time spent about why we need to go and hide this conversation, and not a lot of time talking about the damage done to Mr. Amos.You have an elegant solution. We can go in camera. People can pose their questions as they relate to legal matters. As is required under the Parliament of Canada Act, matters that are not in camera, matters that don't have to be in camera, should not be in camera. We have a duty to make sure that those matters are public.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.Then it will be Mr. LeBlanc's turn.MarkHollandHon.AjaxGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.My counterpart on the government side, Mr. Rodriguez, said something that I agree with, that we are complicating matters. We are complicating matters because we have been called into this meeting today which includes an in camera portion for us to address this issue. Let's follow the agenda for the meeting to which we have been called.Presumably, we are complicating matters by trying to find a way to deal with a matter that obviously raises some very important legal issues. The Bloc Québécois whip, the official opposition whip and the NDP House leader have raised questions that need to be addressed.In closing, I urge all my colleagues to be cautious. When I say cautious, I also mean refer to the facts. Earlier, Mr. Holland drew a parallel between the incident that occurred and someone taking a picture of a member of Parliament snoozing in the lobby with their tie askew. The parallel is null and void. The lobby is the lobby. However, in hybrid Parliament, when a member turns on their camera, their location becomes an extension of the House, with all the consequences and responsibilities that implies. The lobby is not an extension of the House.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]Mr. LeBlanc, you have the floor.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc (President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I apologize for being a little late to today's meeting. I was in the House to give a speech on the opposition motion. I was a few minutes late, but I've been listening to the discussion for about 20 minutes already.[English] I am entirely of the view of Mr. Holland in terms of the time we're spending now in discussing whether this matter should be addressed in public. Mr. Holland has made a very compelling case as to why this circumstance is extremely serious, and I think we should be in a public meeting. We would invite Mr. Lemire to come and discuss this in an in camera session.Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English] If I can go back to Mr. Julian, the tradition with our decisions has been to have a consensus. If there is no consensus, there is no decision.The motion is to invite Monsieur Lemire to an in camera session.Do we have consensus to do that?No. I see as many heads shaking one way as the other, so we do not have consensus.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentDominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1150)[English]Mr. Speaker, I'm going to seek a recorded vote on that. I want that vote to be recorded.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1150)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.MarkHollandHon.AjaxAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[English]Mr. Julian.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1150)[English]I mentioned Peter Milliken earlier because the Board of Internal Economy has a long history of consensus. It has only really deviated from that one time in our history, and that was a profoundly sad moment at the BOIE.We have a different function from committees. Folks wear their partisan hats on committees. There is no doubt that we're members of Parliament representing our parties. At the Board of Internal Economy, we are supposed to take our party hats off at the door and consensus is absolutely essential. If we move from the consensus principle that BOIE has always had—with that singular exception—we're turning the BOIE into a completely different body from what it's intended to be and from what the Parliament of Canada Act directs us to do.I am viscerally opposed to turning this into a non-consensus body.I think, Mr. Speaker, you've made an appropriate ruling that we move now to the agenda. We'll have further discussion in camera. That's where I think we can start to get the legal questions answered—and they are considerable—and then potentially move to consensus decisions on how best to deal with the serious and important situation that he's brought forward.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[English]Just to clarify, mine was a suggestion, not a ruling. I really am at the mercy of the board in what they decide.Like I said, the tradition is consensus. That's what we're striving for.Mr. Holland, you have another comment.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1150)[English]I do, Mr. Speaker.I belabour this point for a reason, which is that I do not have a partisan purpose in this argument. I have a duty to lead human resources for our caucus, to protect my employees and the employees who work for our organization, and to protect members from what the Bloc whip has described as “an unprecedented situation”.Let's be very clear. This did not happen in public. This camera was not on for the public. This was in a private session, only viewable to people who saw that Zoom screen. It is absolutely the equivalent of being in a lobby, only virtually. It was rendered public by Mr. Lemire. It was ripped out of private existence and put into public.I have spent many years here and I absolutely concur with the idea of not forcing votes or not operating by consensus. However, with respect to what happened to Mr. Amos, at what point do we say this crossed the line? At what point do we, as a body, agree around the table on whether or not somebody should even answer what's before us? Does Mr. Lemire answer basic questions in camera about what he did? That's all that's before us.There's no purpose in saying that we're going in camera to talk about that. Either we are going to have a conversation with him or we are not. We've dealt with this on many other matters. That is why I'm forcing a vote here. I'm saying that I, very reluctantly, break with tradition, but I have an obligation. When I was head of the Heart & Stroke Foundation, there was an issue that came forward and I had an obligation to ensure that questions regarding an egregious action were answered. I feel that I have an obligation here to do the same. Therefore, I'm requesting that this be a recorded vote.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[English] Mr. Richards, you have a comment as well?MarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]I do, Mr. Speaker.Mr. Holland asked at what point do we make a decision. Well, it's at the point where we've been able to gather all of the information that needs to be gathered, at the point at which we have asked all of the appropriate questions that we need to ask and are able to make an informed decision about what the appropriate course of action will be. What all of us, other than Mr. Holland, are asking for here is that we have the opportunity to do that.Putting anyone in a position of having to vote on something without having all of the information, without having all of the questions answered, and without having the legal advice that might be required to do so puts everyone here in a very unfair position. It puts everyone in the position of voting on something they're not prepared to vote on because they don't have all of the information required.What I think all of us are asking for here is to have the proper opportunity to have those discussions and to get the legal advice we're asking for. Nobody is necessarily seeking to deny the request; it's simply to make sure that we have the appropriate information and answers before us before we make a decision. Otherwise, everyone is put in an incredibly difficult position. I certainly would agree with what Mr. Julian said earlier: That is the way this board operates. It's the way it should operate, and we should all be taking our partisan hats off. I think if everyone were to really look at that principle, they would understand that it is exactly what everyone here is seeking to do. I think calling for a vote when you are fully aware that people are not prepared to make a decision because they haven't had a chance to get all of the information they need to do that, not having had the in camera portion of the meeting, cannot be seen as anything other than partisan, Mr. Speaker, and that's really unfortunate. It would put us all in the awkward position of going to a vote on which we would much rather be fully informed, and of making an unfortunate decision.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[English]Very good. We'll now go to Mr. Julian.[Translation]Then Mrs. DeBellefeuille will have the floor.[English]Mr. Julian.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1155)[English]Just briefly, Mr. Chair, this is a serious situation. Nobody denies that. There are serious legal ramifications and there is a whole range of questions that need to be asked. I don't disagree with any of that.I profoundly disagree with turning the Board of Internal Economy into some kind of majority body in which we cast votes. Doing that would destroy the spirit and the intent of the board.We are not here for this. We are here to establish a consensus. We have worked over decades through very difficult issues and ultimately almost always have come to a consensus.You, as Speaker, as the holder of the responsibility of those decades of consensus-based decision-making, have the role and responsibility to say no if a member puts you in an awkward place by trying to change the intent of the Board of Internal Economy. This is a consensus body. There is no consensus on changing the agenda, so we will move through the agenda as it has been presented. There is no consensus on this issue at this point, so we will take the time to get all of the questions answered that people have quite legitimately asked about the legal ramifications, so that ultimately, hopefully, we can come to a consensus.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[English]Very good.The list is growing again. I'm going to ask one more time, to use Mr. Holland's word, whether we can use the “elegant solution”—and just so that you know, it was not my idea. We had some wonderful legal minds around the table who proposed doing that, namely, going in camera to ask the questions to cover the legal areas and then coming back and making the decision publicly.I'll just put that out there again if anybody would like to proceed that way. I'm just putting it out there as a possibility. If there is any objection to that, please voice it now.Are we okay? Do we have consensus before we go that route?Mr. Richards. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1155)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I know that I was—and I believe others were—speaking to that very point.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[English] I understand. I'm looking for consensus because that's normally how we do things. It is a tradition that I want to make sure remains.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1155)[English]I understand and I think what we're saying is that there are pieces that tie all together. I think to make a decision about one element of this just won't work. I appreciate the suggestion and I know you're trying to get there, but I don't think—Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1200)[English]Okay, so we don't have consensus about going in camera. Very good.[Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille now has the floor. She will be followed by Ms. Petitpas Taylor, Mr. Rodriguez, Mr. Deltell and Mr. Julian.Mrs. DeBellefeuille, go ahead.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1200)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.As you know, for as long as I have been part of the BOIE, I have always sought compromise and tried to mediate when there were opposing suggestions or positions. So I am deeply saddened by Mr. Holland's request to force a vote. I know he has an important job. I understand that. He knows that I am empathetic and understanding of the fact that he has that job and that the incident that happened on April 14 deserves to be discussed by the BOIE. I don't deny that.I am deeply troubled by the fact that he is trying to use the BOIE for political purposes to make these discussions public, when all opposition parties have already made it very clear to the BOIE that they want to thoroughly discuss this issue in camera. How will the Chair decide that this discussion is legal in nature, but another is not?We need to take the time to discuss this incident in a portion of the meeting in camera that is on the agenda. There is no question of hiding anything. The incident is well known. An apology has been made to the House. The Speaker has made his ruling. Now we want to study the incident further. It is scheduled on the agenda; that shows that the BOIE wants to discuss it.It is not appropriate to call for a vote and break with the important customs of the only body in Parliament that is supposed to be non-partisan, to remain calm and to handle difficult situations. I repeat, the incident is very important, I am not denying that.I call for calm. I, for one, wish to discuss this thoroughly during the in camera portion. I don't want Mr. Holland to think that I'm trying to hide anything. However, even faced with the incident of April 14, we can't afford to set precedents that would be detrimental to the proper functioning of the BOIE and its performance. Even though we have strong opposition in the House of Commons, strong government, and good debate, the BOIE is our non-partisan bulwark for dealing with the toughest things.I call for calm. Please, let's stop this discussion, let's not go to a vote, and based on the agenda, let's go in camera to discuss this item, as it was scheduled. No one is refusing to discuss it. No one is refusing to make decisions. What is being refused, and it seems pretty clear, is that we handle this matter in this way, because it involves all kinds of issues, some of them legal.I would very much like to see Mr. Holland reverse his decision and not call a vote. It would be really distressing if the BOIE were used for political reasons. I'm sure that is not his original intent, so I would ask him to reconsider his request.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1200)[Translation]Ms. Petitpas Taylor, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88364GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Ginette-PetitpasTaylorMoncton—Riverview—DieppeLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/PetitpasTaylorGinette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Deputy Government Whip): (1200)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker.There are a few things. First of all, I think we all agree that the incidents that happened on February 14 this year were extremely, extremely serious. As Mr. Holland indicated, if this had happened in any—any—other workplace, serious and swift action would have been taken. I think I told you at the last meeting what my previous role was and how we would have reacted. I think for Mr. Amos and his entire family, we can't minimize what they have been going through over the past month and a half.I take a bit of a different approach. I have to agree with Madame DeBellefeuille: I don't think we want to provoke a vote here at the BOIE. What we want, however, is a consensus to move forward on inviting Mr. Lemire to the BOIE to answer some questions. At the end of the day, I guess I really challenge all of the members of the BOIE here to really rethink their positions on this. At the end of the day, we want to work as a consensus body, but we also want to send the message loud and clear to all of our members, whichever party they are from. I'm probably one of the most non-partisan MPs you're going to meet, but at the end of the day, I really want to make sure that this situation does not happen again; that our members of Parliament know that they have a safe place to work; and that they know that we, as the Board of Internal Economy, are taking this matter very seriously and will get to the bottom of things.At the end of the day, I just plead with all of us to come up with a consensus to move forward on this. I also believe that we could go into an in camera session to answer perhaps some legal questions that people may have, but then from there, let's move forward in agreeing on the next step. Let's have that conversation publicly. I think Canadians want us to have an effective and healthy workplace for all Canadians. They want to see that we are taking this matter seriously.Thank you.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[Translation]Mr. Rodriguez has the floor. He will be followed by Mr. Deltell and Mr. Julian.Go ahead, Mr. Rodriguez.GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1205)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I am both troubled and saddened that members would link what is happening right now to partisanship. Mr. Amos is not a Liberal. He is first and foremost a human being, a father, a son and a husband. I would say the same thing about anyone else. What happened to Mr. Amos should not happen to anyone, regardless of their political stripes. We should be basing our discussion on that premise, rather than following our party lines.He is a human being first and foremost. The photo was taken and distributed, and it changed his life. Mr. Lemire has admitted to taking the photo. That's the only information we need in order to decide whether to call him to appear or not. We don't need to have partisan discussions. If that's not enough for you, I wonder what it is you need in order to decide whether or not to call someone to appear in camera to explain themselves.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[Translation]We'll continue with Mr. Deltell, followed by Mr. Julian.Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.The current debate in this major meeting is whether or not to respect the consensus. A consensus is a consensus, full stop. We can sometimes give qualified support to a consensus, but a consensus is black and white. You either accept it or you don't.The reality is that the Board of Internal Economy has always operated by consensus. You mentioned the legal knowledge of the people around you; let me mention the historical knowledge of the people around me.On June 18, 2015, a similar situation occurred here at the board. I will read an excerpt:[English]The Board discussed the current policy of allowing annual and compensatory leave to be taken by Members’ employees during a period of dissolution. There being no consensus on possible modifications to the current policy, the status quo was maintained, with Messrs. Duncan, LeBlanc and Van Loan and Mrs. Ambler noting their disagreement.[Translation]So a consensus is a consensus. You either agree with it or you don't. If some people have a problem with it, let them say so, but we feel that there is no consensus on this. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[Translation]We'll continue with Mr. Julian, followed by Mr. Holland and Mr. LeBlanc.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.What is extremely important in all this is how the Board of Internal Economy proceeds. Everyone says that we need a consensus. The agenda clearly states that a period has been set aside to get all the answers to our legal questions about the extremely disturbing incident that happened to Mr. Amos.We all want to find answers to our legal questions, but I do not understand why we are still discussing a change in the agenda for which there is no consensus. We could be more productive. We can't accept the idea of abandoning consensus and asking for a vote.I understand Mr. Holland's point of view very well. He is not the first member to try to force a vote in the Board of Internal Economy, but the chairs have always said that in the absence of a consensus, the status quo is maintained. This has been a tradition for decades. On the one hand, we have an agenda and no consensus to change it, and on the other hand, we are going to have a discussion and get answers to our extremely important legal questions.Mr. Chair, as chair of the Board of Internal Economy, you have the right to say that there is no consensus to change the agenda and that we will follow it.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[Translation]We will continue.[English] You had your hand up, Mr. Holland. I just want to make sure....PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1210)[English]I was deferring to Mr. LeBlanc.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[English]Okay, we'll go to Mr. LeBlanc.After checking, I just want to clarify that consensus is a tradition in the Board of Internal Economy. It is a tradition that is very strong, but a forced vote is also something that is allowed, depending on what the board decides.Monsieur LeBlanc.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc: (1210)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I was just going to note exactly what you said.Mr. Julian and I had the experience, at least for some time, of being together on the Board of Internal Economy when another great Speaker of the House of Commons, Andrew Scheer, was in your seat, Mr. Chair. I listened to my friend, Monsieur Deltell, and the Conservative whip talk about the importance of consensus. They're right; the board usually functions and that's a good thing. It's an efficient way to do business. I also remember those board meetings where Peter Van Loan, who was then the Conservative House leader, or John Duncan, who was the Conservative whip, were very happy to force recorded votes—as were the Liberals—on a difficult matter involving the use of House of Commons funds for satellite offices.The board was having regularly recorded votes on a matter around using House of Commons resources for satellite offices. I would think the inappropriate distribution of an intimate image over the Internet and social media that affected one of our colleagues in a very significant and enduring way feels perhaps more serious than what was the right procedure to use House of Commons resources for opening satellite offices in Montreal.Around that issue, we regularly had recorded votes. The board continued to function. Members continued to work on matters important to the financial administration of the House of Commons. I don't think it's a huge traumatic moment that we might take a recorded vote and move on. Parliament survived. Mr. Scheer went on to be leader of his party after he presided at the Board of Internal Economy during many of those votes.Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that our whip Mr. Holland had a good suggestion. We should move on to the agenda following a vote on this matter. For a group of people who get elected, we shouldn't be afraid of votes.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[Translation]Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1210)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have some experience, but I don't have as much as all the people gathered around the table.To my knowledge, everything is done by consensus. I would like to call to witness Mrs. DeBellefeuille, who always works in a spirit of consensus, by the way. I recognize her professional background in the field. You mentioned earlier that it was a tradition and not a rule. What I understand is that we would be breaking with tradition. Before proceeding to a vote, I would like to be told when there was a vote at the Board of Internal Economy for the last time.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[Translation]We will look for this information.[English] Mr. Holland would like to say something as well, followed by Mr. Julian.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I'm very comfortable, as I said before, with your solution that we go in camera. You can have everybody ask any questions they want, and then we would come out of camera for this vote. There is absolutely nothing about the vote that should be held in camera or that has any reason to be in camera. I would hope that after questions are asked it will be a very simple matter and we can operate on unanimity. I would rather not move a motion. I am just saying that if we can't get consensus for something as simple as Mr. Lemire appearing before this committee, I will be forced to do that. What I will move instead is that this body go in camera to deal with this item and that at the conclusion of its in camera proceedings, we come out of camera to have a public vote with respect to Mr. Lemire's presence. I think that should answer all the questions around the table.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]Do we have consensus for that? No, I don't see that.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1215)[English]Okay, then I seek a recorded vote on that motion.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]Okay, very good.Sorry, we'll have Mr. Julian followed by Mr. Richards. We still have some questions.Mr. Julian.MarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I have to disagree with my colleague Mr. LeBlanc on his perception of history. Very few votes have been forced at the BOIE. The one exception, of course, is after a period of a number of meetings when there is no consensus possible. This discussion has started, and it's a fundamentally important issue; there's no doubt. It's scheduled on the BOIE agenda and we have time available for it. There are a range of legal implications, as our legal adviser has pointed out. There is no question that the way to proceed, given the tradition and history of the BOIE, is to simply, since we have no consensus, move to the agenda as written. This important discussion with these important legal ramifications can then take place.I'm surprised at what has transpired. It is a pretty fundamental shift in how the BOIE operates. It is something that Peter Milliken was clear about in his interventions both at the BOIE and at numerous committees when he was called upon to testify on the importance of the consensus-based decision-making of the BOIE. Peter Milliken was always very clear: There are always some exceptions, but those exceptions need to be considered extraordinarily seriously and only over time.I would like the opportunity to have the discussion as you, Mr. Speaker, and the House administration have put forward on the agenda. We have the ability to do that, and I believe there are ways of coming to a consensus. That always has to be the preferred road for the Board of Internal Economy to take, and for you, Mr. Speaker, to take as the presiding officer of it.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]Now we'll go to Mr. Richards.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English] Thanks, Mr. Speaker. Again, I find myself in agreement with Mr. Julian here.On the suggestion being made now—and I have spoken of this a couple of times—the problem is that we're taking one element of a discussion and pulling it out of the discussion, and it just doesn't work that way. There are implications for other parts of the discussion on this. To try to pretend that you can pull out the one element and have a discussion about it and then vote on it, and then come back later to what the administration has suggested we do—which is to have the full discussion in camera, with the ability to ask the legal questions, etc., and then make decisions about the matter more fulsomely—I don't see the logic in that. It doesn't do this important matter justice.I noted the examples used, I think by Mr. LeBlanc, from previous Parliaments, where there were in fact some votes that occurred. I believe I know the circumstances, and it was simply a matter of one party seeking to avoid being sanctioned, I guess, for what the board was finding as wrongdoings.When we're talking about something like that, I can understand and appreciate why there might be a need to remove the principle of consensus that we operate, if it's just a matter of someone trying to protect themselves. We're not talking about something like that here. We're talking about three parties all agreeing that we need to follow the suggestions that the administration has made and have a proper discussion about a matter and move forward with the agenda as presented by us. That is very different from what those examples were. To differ from the idea of consensus here on something like that, where you have three parties all in agreement that we need to do things the way they've been suggested by the administration, and one party is suggesting we disregard the advice we've been given and proceed to break up a matter into little chunks and deal with it separately, is not the same thing, in any way. It puts everyone here in a very difficult position, because we all want to try to do this in the appropriate way, have all the facts, and to make sure that all of the questions are answered and deal with this fulsomely. We're being put in a position here where the expectation is to do otherwise. I just think that's very unfortunate, and not a good precedent.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1220)[English]The proposal seems to be—and I'll see if we have a consensus on it—to continue with the agenda and deal with this item in camera, and then come back in public and make a decision then.I see some puzzled faces. Maybe that's not the next step. I see heads going back and forth, and that we don't have consensus. Mr. Holland. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1220)[English]Of course, it would make no sense, and let's be very clear, I'm not going to put Mr. Dufresne.... Mr. Dufresne can correct me—and I'll put it this way—if I am misspeaking.There is absolutely nothing out of order for this body to go in camera and ask all of the questions it wants to. Any legal question, any matter that has to be dealt with in camera, can be exhausted in camera, and then we can come out of camera and then vote on whether or not Mr. Lemire will appear before committee. There is absolutely no violation of....I realize we don't have a consensus. I'm saying that I am moving a motion that we go in camera. People can ask all of the questions they want in camera. We can exhaust all of the in camera questions, and then we can come out and answer publicly the matter of whether Mr. Lemire will appear before this body.I'll move that as a motion.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1220)[English]We don't have consensus on that.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1220)[English]I am seeking a recorded vote on that, Mr. Speaker.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1220)[English]I think that's where we're going to have to go, then, because we don't have consensus on that item.Mr. Julian.MarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1220)[English] Mr. Speaker, I have point of order. I understand the importance of the issue that Mr. Holland has raised, but he is throwing aside the whole approach that the BOIE must take and has taken for generations. As Peter Milliken so clearly lined up—he's the former speaker who provided such great guidance for parliaments, both majority and minority—there isn't the forcing of the votes; there isn't the calling of motions; there aren't amendments. There is a different approach within the BOIE. I think what you're hearing from a number of members of the BOIE is a concern about how Mr. Holland is bringing forth this issue. It is not the issue itself. The issue itself we are all seized with. It is an important one. There are important legal ramifications that we absolutely need to be asking questions about and getting answers to, but the idea that you can simply move a motion as if the BOIE were just like a standing committee is simply inappropriate. That's the point I've been stressing repeatedly, and as our presiding officer, Mr. Speaker, you simply have the right and all of the precedents to say, “There isn't a consensus. Let us move to the agenda as written.” This issue of course is not going away. I think every single member has expressed its importance. We want to start to get to the next steps, and the way to do that is to have the legal questions answered. We got advice at the beginning of this meeting that this type of legal advice, which is so important, is for an in camera portion. That is the very clear guidance. We have it as part of the agenda. We don't force votes. We don't try to impose a majority view. We seek to come to a consensus. On this issue, which is so important, it is even more important to come to a consensus about next steps. Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[English]I'm just going to move on to Mr. Holland, followed by Mr. Richards.Mr. Holland.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1225)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As has already been mentioned, this is a convention. It's one that we all try to follow. It is one that sometimes has to be deviated from. What we don't do is take naked photographs of one another and post them all over the world. What we don't do in a reasonable place of employment is allow one person to take a photograph of a fellow employee naked, against their will, and put it in the public domain. What I don't do is accept that this issue isn't important enough, simply because we have a tradition of doing things a particular way—even though that tradition has moved many different ways in other instances—and say, “Sorry, Mr. Amos”. The really confounding part about this is that my motion is very simple: We move in camera. You can ask every question you want in camera. You can exhaust all questions, Mr. Dufresne. You can examine every angle of this. I have a simple request on behalf of Mr. Amos and the offence that was done to him, one request to demonstrate to Canadians that we take this matter seriously. That is the very simple matter that, after all of those legal questions have been exhausted, we take a vote as to whether Mr. Lemire should appear before this committee or not, just as we made a decision with respect to Mr. Weir, just as we made a decision with respect to Mr. Kang, just as we made a decision with respect to Ms. Ratansi, just as we made decisions that were very public on whether or not other members would come before this body, in camera or not.I'm simply asking that the vote take place publicly so that we demonstrate the seriousness with which we take this matter—and yes, I'm willing to deviate from tradition. Yes, I'm willing to do what other members have done in this body before and, in exceptional circumstances, move it. It was Madame DeBellefeuille herself who said that this circumstance was without precedent. If it is without precedent, then it demands that we take action. On that basis, Mr. Speaker, I ask that we vote on the motion that we go in camera, that this matter be fully exhausted, and that we have a simple vote as to whether or not Mr. Lemire will appear before us, in camera or not, and that it be public.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[English] Okay. We have Mr. Richards next. Before we go to Mr. Richards, I just had some information given to me that we'll try this one more time. What's being proposed—and again I'll need your consensus for this—is that we continue with the agenda and when we go in camera we have a chance to discuss this further, and then come back out of camera once that's done and vote on the item at hand.Is that acceptable to everyone? Basically, we're continuing with the agenda. It shouldn't take very long. We'll go in camera and then come back out to make a decision. Do we have consensus?Yes, we will continue with item number two, which shouldn't take very long.Do I have consensus? Okay, we have consensus. There have been different variations of it, but let's continue.On item number two, business arising from the previous meeting, are there any items? Seeing none, we'll move on.On mental health and wellness resources and professional development for members and their employees, Madame Laframboise and Robyn Daigle have a presentation.Amos, WilliamLemire, SébastienMembers of ParliamentPhotographsVideoconferencesVirtual ParliamentMarkHollandHon.AjaxMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1225)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.Our submission today is to provide the board with information—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[English]I'm sorry, Madame Laframboise. I'm going to have to interrupt you for a second. I'm sorry.Mr. Richards.MichelleLaframboiseBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1230)[English]Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order. With all of the extended debate that occurred around that, I actually had my hand up to deal with something related to the business arising from the previous meeting.COVID-19House of Commons staffImmunizationPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[English]Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1230)[English]I think I just got lost because of the fact that there was such a long discussion there that flowed from the first person to put their hand up.If you don't mind, it really is a brief comment and a quick question.COVID-19House of Commons staffImmunizationPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[English]Okay. We'll be very brief, if you don't mind, but thank you for pointing that out. Madame Laframboise, I'm sorry.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1230)[English]From the previous meeting, I had made the suggestion that we seek to have you send letters to Quebec and Ontario ministries of health to make sure that we can have vaccinations for essential workers here in Parliament.I see that what you have done is written to the federal Minister of Health, which so be it, I suppose. However, I wonder if you had a response to that letter and if you can share that with us. Obviously it's critical that we ensure that these workers who are essential to the functioning of our Parliament and our seat of democracy here have the opportunity to be considered essential workers and get their vaccinations so we can keep them safe.COVID-19House of Commons staffImmunizationPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[English]There is no response as of yet.Monsieur Patrice, has there been a response yet? No. Maybe we'll push a little harder. I'll instruct our team to push on it again.That's very good. Now we'll continue.[Translation]Ms. Laframboise, you have the floor.COVID-19House of Commons staffImmunizationPandemicBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1230)[Translation]Thank you.[English]Our submission today is to provide the board with information on the mental health and wellness, as well as professional development resources, currently available to members and their employees and to seek the board's direction on whether they feel that additional resources are required to meet their needs.In regard to mental health and wellness, there are currently several different venues to access their resources. First, there's the employee and family assistance program, which provides confidential and immediate support for personal, work, health and well-being issues. This support service is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at no cost to members, House officers, research offices, their employees and members of their immediate family. Then there are the services and offerings provided by the wellness team of the House administration, including programs and services to support a healthy lifestyle and general well-being, and access to nurse counsellors who specialize in mental health, coaching and support, as well as referrals to external resources for health issues.The health and wellness team offers yearly lifestyle improvement programs, wellness webinars and virtual conferences.If members or their employees require access to specialized medical services for wellness, such as massage therapists, physiotherapists and others, they are often able to claim these expenses through their health care insurance plan.[Translation]In addition, the House Administration has offered a number of mental health and wellness training opportunities to the members and their staff in the context of COVID-19, such as information sessions, webinar series and virtual conferences. Finally, under current Board of Internal Economy policies, members may use their office budget to participate in workshops, conferences and courses offered. The cost of attending mental health and wellness workshops is an eligible expense, which may be reimbursed.Recently, some caucuses have considered offering additional mindfulness resources to their members and staff, and plan to offer weekly mindfulness sessions to this group. If the board so wishes and requests, the House Administration can offer this type of service to all members of Parliament and their staff, taking into account such factors as technology needs, method of supply, and other resources currently available.[English] With regard to the issue of professional development, the House administration provides a number of training programs to members' offices, many of which are primarily offered by House resources with no charge to the MOB. In addition, members and their employees may attend external workshops, conferences and courses, such as language training, media relations and presentation skills training, and computer software training, and charge allowable costs to the MOB.If so directed by the board, the House administration could explore additional options for providing professional development opportunities to members and their employees as well as additional resources. In exploring this possibility, we would determine if there are specific requirements for professional development that should be addressed through the House administration that are not currently being addressed, as well as how these additional professional development offerings would be financed and whether or not additional funding would be required. As such, we ask the board to provide direction on whether to explore offering additional mental health and wellness resources to members and their employees as a service provided by the House administration, and whether to explore changes to the existing professional development regime.Merci. I remain available to answer any questions. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1235)[English]Are there any questions?Mr. Holland, and then Madame DeBellefeuille. MichelleLaframboiseMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1235)[English]Thank you very much.I want to take the time thank you, Madame Laframboise, and the whole team for the additional tools and support that you have been bringing on board for our staff—the staff of all parties. It is sincerely and deeply appreciated. This period of the pandemic has been particularly challenging for our employees. These resources have been an enormous help to them in doing their jobs, and in doing their jobs in an environment that supports them and is healthy. Thank you for everything you have done.I have two observations. I know that I have made these to you elsewhere. One is that we have work to do to now socialize everyone to all of the tools that are available. We're all going to have to take those on. There are two areas that I am particularly interested. For the sake of scope, I will focus only on those for today. One is that we have embarked on having mindfulness sessions for our employees across the country. We've already done a couple of days. We're doing that on our side, on the caucus side. I would commend it to the use of other parties. It has been a wonderful tool. We've had a great pickup in participation. It's been a wonderful tool of wellness. I'm very much vendor-neutral on who that would be, but I appreciate your saying that you would consider exploring that as being something that is available to employees from all parties. I am very encouraged by that. I'll let that come back at another date and other parties to indicate if they have an interest in it. Perhaps you could canvass them. One matter that I wanted to put specifically to the board today is in the realm of professional development. I had a look at the utilization of MOBs for the purposes of professional development, and it's almost nil. It makes sense, because the pressures on MOBs are absolutely enormous right now. The last thing that happens, unfortunately, is dollars for the professional development of employees if you want to go further than some of the excellent training modules that you have. This can be in conflict resolution. This can be in mental health and resiliency. It could be language training. Right now we're hearing from employees across the country the frustration that they don't have access to what is normal in other workplaces. I have a specific suggestion for the board that we could do on a trial basis of a year and then examine its efficacy. Particularly given the year our employees have had, as a demonstration of our support for the work they do and our commitment to their well-being and professional development, we would establish $10,000 that would be added to the MOB that could only be used for the professional development of staff. I had an opportunity to talk to all whips about this. Those dollars would ensure that employees across the country, with an average of five people working in an office, would have about $2,000 per employee to build resiliency, to build their strength in conflict resolution and to have additional language training. That would go a huge way toward demonstrating support for the work they do.When we're talking now about a performance management system, typically a performance management system has organizational goals that you set and also professional development goals that should be part of any employee's development and goal-setting. Right now there are no dollars for that. That's something that I think we need to change. I would seek the support of other members to add that as an additional support. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1235)[Translation]All right.We'll now go to Mrs. DeBellefeuille, followed by Mr. Richards.MarkHollandHon.AjaxClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1235)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Ms. Laframboise, I would also like to add my voice to that of Mr. Holland to tell you that your entire team was able to offer support and, above all, adapt to the particular context of the pandemic.I dare to name Ms. Mercier, from your team, who is the human resources advisor for the Bloc québécois. We asked her for specific training on mental health, because the employees needed tools and intervention strategies to detect or screen for signs of distress among our fellow citizens who call our offices, who call for help, and who may even resort to suicide.Many citizens in our constituencies phoned our offices. Our staff were completely overwhelmed because they didn't necessarily have the professional foundation or skills, or haven't developed clinical skills to be able to take these kinds of calls.Frankly, I did not experience this during my first terms of office. This is the first time that such a large number of citizens have called us and expressed distress and great despondency. This requires our teams to be informed about mental health resources in their respective constituencies. They also need to develop first-line intervention skills, to be able to assess the seriousness of the call and the level of distress. Our staff need to be able to make connections to protect the person and offer a little more support than is usually available in the constituency offices.I wanted to thank you, because you offered the mental health training to all caucuses. About 60 people, members of Parliament and staff, participated, including 26 members of the Bloc teams, whether members of Parliament or staff. That training was great. It was so well designed that after only one hour, everyone came out 100% satisfied, with better tools to intervene.I think it shows that your organization is very nimble, very flexible, able to adapt to changing needs, and able to deal with the issues that our teams face in Ottawa or in our constituencies. So, I know this is a long speech, but we don't take enough time to thank you for the really important work you do.I now turn to another subject.When I read your presentation, I realized that there are several services that I didn't know existed, even as a whip. You know, we don't always have time to go to the House's Source site and to look at everything you offer. I was surprised to learn a lot of things that I couldn't share with my caucus. I'm sure they're not even aware of this, nor are the staff of all our teams.So, with your permission, I would be grateful if you would make the summary of your presentation available so that I can first promote what is being offered free of charge, what is being done by your teams, so that we can find a better way to disseminate this information in our caucuses. I don't have as much experience as some of the other people around the table, but I do have some experience, and I have learned things that I want to share with my caucus and my team members. If the members of the Board of Internal Economy agree, we could make a summary available, which you could share with us, and we could make a presentation to our own caucuses. This is my first request.On another note, I understand Mr. Holland's request to support the professional development of our teams, our workers, our caucus members, and our employees on the Hill or in our ridings. I completely agree. Personally, I am currently on leave without pay, for civic duties, from the Quebec public service. All employees had about $1,000 or $1,200 a year to upgrade their skills and get additional training. I wonder about the $2,000 and $10,000 amounts, because I know that a lot of training is offered free of charge.(1240)If a survey of members of all caucuses showed that many of them wanted mindfulness training, I am sure that your team would be able to develop it and to offer it at no cost. Training like that would clearly come under the central House budget.I am not opposed to having our constituency budgets increased so that an additional $10,000 can be allocated to professional development for our staff, and I don't want Mr. Holland to see this as opposition to his suggestion. I feel that the need is justified. However, would it be $10,000? How would it be managed?I have a lot of questions. Actually, the range of services and the expertise in your department are so great that I want to ask you instead whether you have courses that our teams could take and that your teams would develop, to meet the needs that Mr. Holland has identified.I do not want to oppose an increase in the budget for staff training, development or even co-development. I would just like to find out whether your service has the flexibility required to increase the range of your offerings, which could perhaps meet the needs. I will be able to tell you what I decide after I hear your answers.For the moment, I am still a little undecided about Mr. Holland's request. I still have to be convinced that $10,000, or $2,000 per staff member, is a good expense.However, if your service cannot provide that kind of training, I would be quite inclined to agree to Mr. Holland's request.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[Translation]Okay.Ms. Laframboise, do you have any comments?ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1245)[Translation]Thank you for your comments, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Let me add something. Appendix C has a list of the courses presently available to members and their employees. The training we offer is relatively broad. It covers topics from office management to employee well-being and interpersonal skills. If it became clear that we needed something else, we would be prepared to do the research to find out what could be provided by our employees or by resources that are already available. Otherwise, we could find a way to make it available to you.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[English] Now we'll go to Mr. Richards.MichelleLaframboiseBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1245)[English]Thanks, Mr. Speaker.I have just a couple of questions. I'll start first with the area of mental health and wellness and then I'll move to professional development. On the mental health and wellness front, maybe it's in the evaluation you've done here and I missed it, but it's a fairly extensive list of mental wellness initiatives that are available to employees and to members. Have you identified anything, when you compare it to what would typically be available in either the private sector or elsewhere, that you would see as typical mental health resources that members or members' employees wouldn't be eligible for, either by being reimbursed through their MOB or through their employee health plans, etc.? Have you identified anything that are gaps based on comparable options available to the private sector?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1245)[English]If you look at the employee and family assistance program, for example, it is among the best in its class. I would suggest from my experience, having worked in a variety of organizations inside and outside of the federal family, that the programs that we offer are absolutely the best in class. As well as having the EAP, having in-house services, including nurse counsellors on staff, for example, is definitely a huge part of our wellness piece. We do a lot of training and we do try to stay ahead of the trends so we always know what's coming up. The challenge has been that this last year, these last 14 months, have been exceedingly difficult and have given mental health a whole new world to work in. We're working with not just regular workplace events anymore. There are organizations that can offer more. We have seen organizations that have perhaps bigger wellness staff. I would suggest that the programs we offer and the training currently available meet the majority of our needs. That being said, for something like mindfulness, we don't currently offer it, but it is something we would be absolutely happy to look at. Mental health and wellness are an ever-changing field. We do try to stay current with the trends to make sure we can offer the services. While we have some excellent offerings, the challenge remains access. We can tell an employee that they can get reimbursed for certain services, but through the health care plan. Then getting access to your GP to get the prescription and then getting access to a therapist or getting access to other specialized services can be a bit more of a challenge. While we may have certain offerings, access remains a challenge, not only for our employees but also for Canadians in general. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]I was going to ask that question, because I think that's a problem that is not just specific to us. It seems to me I hear that from people, whether they are constituents or other folks I talk to. Getting access to those services seems to be a general problem across this country. That certainly isn't specific to us. I do appreciate that. With regard to the mindfulness sessions, I don't know about the other caucuses, but obviously Mr. Holland indicated that his caucus has engaged in them. Are those currently something that can be paid for under parliamentary budgets or by the individual MPs or caucuses to have their employees involved through some kind of House officer's budget or otherwise? Is that something that is currently able to be paid for? How are those being conducted?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1250)[English]We don't offer the mindfulness right now. It's being done separately, but it's something that—Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]I know you're not the ones offering it, but Mr. Holland has indicated that at least their caucus has in fact conducted these sessions. Have they been able to use parliamentary budgets to pay for those? Is that something that would be eligible under a parliamentary budget currently?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMichelleLaframboiseMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1250)[English]That's probably a question directed to me. BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1250)[English]I'll let Mr. Holland answer that if....MarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]If you can answer it, Mark, that's great. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1250)[English]We have resources that we've decided to deploy to that purpose in support of employees. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]So those are parliamentary resources you're able to access now, or not?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1250)[English]Yes, that's true. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]Okay. I just wanted to know whether or not that was something that could be done currently. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1250)[English]It is. My point on that is that we're happy to do it on our side. We've had a really positive response using our House office budgets for that. Individual caucuses could do it as well. It's just a thought that it might be a good thing to offer across the board to all employees. We've had a really positive response on the impact for our employees. Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]Thank you. I appreciate that, Mark. On the professional development side, I would assume that other caucuses do this as well, but I know that within our caucus we do provide pretty extensive professional development for our members and employees—different professional development training sessions, briefing sessions, etc. I'm wondering whether in your survey of opportunities currently available to members and their employees some of those robust offerings, of which you have given us some examples here, were taken into account.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMarkHollandHon.AjaxMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1250)[English] I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand the question.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]Maybe it's unique to our caucus. I don't know. I'd assume and hope it's not. Certainly there are a host of professional development opportunities provided within caucuses themselves. You've laid out some examples of professional development opportunities. I'm just wondering if that's been factored in and taken into consideration in that survey you've done.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1250)[English]The list that we have here has not taken into consideration what individual caucuses have prepared and delivered themselves.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1250)[English]I think I was hearing from you that you believe there's a pretty extensive list of things that are available. Possibly, it might be a good thing occasionally to come to this board and seek suggestions for things that could be added to your list.Setting that aside for a second, there seems to be some suggestion that maybe we add a dedicated portion of the MOB for professional development. I'm not clear on whether the issue of getting professional development opportunities to people is in fact a lack of financial resources available to members. I would assume, given there's an extensive list of opportunities that you provide that, from my understanding, can be charged to the MOB.... Is there a financial barrier to MPs to provide these things or is there some other reason they're not being provided to employees?The question would be how many MPs are spending right to their cap? Maybe that's why they're squeezing these things out. How many MPs are squeezing within $10,000 of the cap of their MOB? I'm trying to determine if a financial barrier actually exists or not. It may not be a need to provide more dollars to the MOB in order to facilitate these things. There may be another problem.I understand the problem that we're trying to fix. I certainly support the idea that we would want to try to ensure that professional development opportunities are available to employees and members where needed. I'm trying to determine if we're actually hitting the right problem in the way we're trying to solve it. I don't know if you have that kind of information. If you don't, maybe we can get it.How many MPs are currently squeezed right up to the cap on their MOBs? How many are within $10,000?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1255)[English]I know that we did take a look at that. My understanding is that they don't all use to their cap. Robyn, do you have additional information? I'm not sure if the CFO is on the line anywhere here. I understand he was looking into—Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1255)[English]I can take that question.Looking at the trends over the last few years—obviously the last fiscal year and the previous one are not necessarily typical years—what we normally see as a trend is that about 25% of the members spend more than 95% of their budget. I don't necessarily have the $10,000 mark, but if you take 95% of their budget, they're spending less than $18,000 of the top of their budget. That's about a quarter of the members. The rest would still have some flexibility.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMichelleLaframboiseBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1255)[English]I guess it depends on what part of that range they'd be in, if it's closer to the $18,000. We're talking about less than 25%, obviously. It could be 10% or 15%. I'm just trying to get a sense of whether that's the barrier here.I think I'm hearing that it may be a barrier for some members. We all have to make choices about how we use our resources. I guess that's no different than anywhere else. It doesn't sound to me like it's a huge issue when you have less than a quarter who are.... It would be a barrier in those cases. It could be a matter of prioritizing.That answers my question. Thank you.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1255)[English]I believe Mr. Holland has a question or a comment.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1255)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.I hear Blake's point. When we were talking about this point, one of the things I said was that when there are no dedicated resources for something, it doesn't happen. As a case in point, right now, 0.013% of a member's budget is used for professional development, and that includes members themselves. When we talk to our employees, the reason for that is that there's never any discussion of the fact that those dollars would be available. There are some great training modules, but the problem we have is that if a member wants to go deeper in language training, for example, or a member wants to take a course on how to better deal with difficult case work, difficult constituents, conflict management, mental health and resiliency, there really isn't anything to support that culture of professional development for our employees.Given the fact that we've gone through such a difficult period of time, where employees on the front line have been, over the past 14 or 15 months, subject to so much strain, I think it's a good idea, generally. It's been present in every organization I've worked in, and a wonderful gesture of support for our employees. What I'm suggesting.... Claude talked about $2,000 an employee. I'm not against that, but I thought it would be simpler to say $10,000 per office dedicated exclusively for the purpose of the professional development of employees. The reason being is that there may be somebody who has one course that costs $3,000, and another person has a course that costs $1,000. My suggestion is that we take a year, take a look at what kind of uptake there is, encourage our employees to participate and utilize this, and if at the end of the year we feel that was not a successful endeavour for whatever reason, we can sunset it. It's something that, at least in our conversations with our employees, would be very meaningful to them. Culturally, it would send a really important message about our believing in their professional development.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1300)[English]Very good.MarkHollandHon.AjaxMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1300)[English]I'll move that for consideration, and if there's consensus on that, great.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1300)[English]Mr. Richards, do you have another point?MarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1300)[English]Thank you.I hear Mark's point that unless there are dedicated resources for something, it doesn't happen. We do have, within our MOBs now, dedicated portions for certain things. We're not talking about an extensive problem of MPs who cannot seem to do anything within their budget. That's not the issue. It's the idea of dedicating funds toward it.Perhaps $10,000 is the right dollar amount to start with, or maybe it's $5,000 or $2,000 that Claude is suggesting, whatever it might be. Rather than adding to the budget, we would dedicate a portion within the existing budget. That would sort of deal with the issue of making sure that something is dedicated, without adding to the budget. It doesn't sound like there's a need to do that in order to accomplish this. As Mark said, it's a matter of dedicating funds toward it. Whether it's a percentage of the budget or a dollar figure, however we want to do it, perhaps we can do it that way, where we make the suggestion that it's $5,000 or 1%. Whatever it is, that amount would be dedicated from the existing budget toward professional development.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1300)[English]Very good.I'm looking at the time, and we're past our 1 o'clock finish time.Do we want to extend the session? I know there's a certain interest in this item in particular, but we also have other items as we get closer to QP.Is there consensus on what we want to do with this session, its being 1 o'clock?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1300)[English]Is that to allow this discussion to finish? Is that what you are saying?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1300)[English]To what point: just for this item?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1300)[English]Just for this item, yes.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1300)[English]Okay, just for this item. The others we'll take up when we come back.Very good.[Translation]The floor goes to Mrs. DeBellefeuille. She will be followed by Mr. Holland.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1300)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, I don't want us to leave with Mr. Holland's proposal unresolved. In my view, it is really worthwhile. I am not opposed to additional funds coming from places other than our budgets. I have to tell you sincerely that I do not really agree with the money coming out of our budgets and being set aside for this, as Mr. Richards suggests. This is because our budgeting for the year is already done.Mr. Holland's proposal is a good compromise. In fact, if we agree and if Mr. Paquette can show us that it's financially possible to add a fund specifically for the professional development of our employees, starting this year, the suggestion could be really helpful. We would need to document the process, showing whether the budget was used, what training was taken, and so forth. We would also need to evaluate it in order to come to a better decision, given how the budgets are to be allocated and used by April 1, 2022. In that way, we would be looking out for our employees who, as was previously mentioned, are going through really difficult and unprecedented situations. We could set this up this year, the one that started on April 1, and use the amounts set aside for it, as well as our operating budget, to help our employees meet the new professional challenges. We could use it as somewhat of a pilot project, evaluate it at the end of next year, determine whether it met the employees' needs and whether it is a workable solution. We could then decide whether we were going to continue it. I am quite in favour of that compromise proposal, which meets the needs of our employees. So I am in favour of Mr. Holland's initial proposal.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1305)[English] Go ahead, Mr. Holland.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1305)[English]Thanks, Mr. Speaker.I totally agree with Claude. I think that, if we scale back members' existing budgets, it's going to come as a major shock to members to suddenly find out t they have less money.The second point is that, for a lot of members who go up to that 95% mark, they do so because they're in ridings where constituency offices are much more expensive or staff are much more expensive. People in certain metropolitan areas have a much bigger strain. While we have some provision for that, we don't really have a lot to compensate for the fact that if you're in downtown Toronto, downtown Vancouver, or other environments, there are a lot of extra costs. What we would be doing in effect is saying that professional development would only be available for some offices. I like the idea of doing it, as Claude has suggested, on a temporary basis. We can do it for this fiscal year, review it next year, and see what the uptake is. Yes, I would support what Claude just said.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1305)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Richards.MarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1305)[English]Thanks.I'm not opposed to the idea here, as I think I've indicated already. It's something that I know I certainly do within my office, and I think it's a great thing for others to do. I'm also aware that, as employers, we make our own decisions. I sort of hate the idea that we start to get prescriptive about how people spend their office budgets. I like the idea of enabling this. I don't even mind the idea of dedicating funds, but I think that if we start to say, “Okay, we're going to add this much to your budget for this", then what comes next, right? It gets to the point where we're starting to be very prescriptive about how people spend.All MPs make decisions accordingly. For example, we have a dedicated portion of our budget for advertising now. I choose not to advertise; I don't spend that money. I believe there are better ways to utilize my MOB. Others make different decisions, and that's fine. I just don't like the idea of our starting to get into dedicating a bunch of things to.... I like the idea of professional development. I don't mind the idea of considering setting it aside, because I agree that sometimes if it's not set aside, it doesn't get used for something, but I don't like sort of, “Here's a pool for this, and here's a pool for that”. My thinking is that I maybe just don't have quite enough information at this point. I understand where Mark's coming from with people in areas where constituency lease costs are high in large ridings where they have to have more than one office and things like that. Often, then, people are spending to the cap. That is why they're doing it. If that's the problem, perhaps we need to look at that and whether those supplements for some of those areas are done appropriately or in the right way. I would just like to get a bit more information before I make a decision on this. For the 25% that are more than 95%, can we break that down a little better? How many are within $5,000 of their cap? How many are within $10,000 of their cap? Then we'd have some sense of what we're talking about there. I'm not suggesting that I'm opposed to this. I just don't think I have quite enough information to make a decision that I would want to add to MPs' budgets at this point.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1305)[English] Mr. Holland.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland: (1305)[English]My apologies, Mr. Chair. I thought when we spoke as whips.... I misunderstood. I thought we were closer to consent than we were.What I'll do then is to withdraw the item. We'll go back and have a conversation as whips to try to answer Blake's questions, and we'll return with this item once we have a consensus.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1305)[English]That's good.If there are no more comments on that.... That was part of my understanding of the consensus. We're basically instructing HR to explore offering additional health and wellness resources to members and to employees of the House and administration. We're also directing them to explore changes to existing professional development regimes. I will add as well that they consult with whips to see what they're looking for so that we can have options when we return to make a decision.Do we have consensus on that? Does that make sense?Mr. Richards, do you have a comment?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingMarkHollandHon.AjaxBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1305)[English]Yes, I just have one quick comment, Mr. Speaker.I had a very brief conversation with Mark about this, and certainly, as I indicated at this meeting, I think it's a good discussion to have. I'm supportive of the idea of making sure that professional development is provided, but we never did get into any detail.I'm happy to do that, but I'll still ask for the the information I've just asked for. It would be helpful to me in knowing the appropriate way to approach this. If we could still ask the administration to provide the information about how many MPs are spending right to the cap, how many are within $5,000 of the cap and how many are within $10,000, that would be very helpful to me.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1310)[English]We have that request on the record, and it will be brought to the board.[Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille, do you have a question or comment?Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1310)[Translation]I would like to make one final comment on this, Mr. Speaker.If you are letting the human resources people do the analysis that Mr. Richards is asking for, I believe that last year must not be used as a reference, because it's not representative. Because of the pandemic, we spent less in certain areas, so we have to use a wider reference than just last year. In that way, I feel that the analysis would be more accurate.Members of ParliamentMembers of Parliament staffMental healthWork-based trainingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1310)[Translation]Thank you very much. That is a good point.With the direction given, if there are no further questions, we will adjourn today's meeting and continue the agenda at the next meeting.[English]I declare this meeting adjourned.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgDaily adjournmentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0162nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, April 22, 2021Le jeudi 22 avril 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTApril 22, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 016NUMBER 016NUMÉRO 016016220420212021/04/22 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1105)[English] We have everyone here, so we'll get this meeting started. The agenda is before you. This is meeting number 16 of the Board of Internal Economy. Welcome.We'll start with the minutes of the previous meeting. Is everything in order? Are there any comments? If everything is fine and we're all in accordance, we'll move on to item number 2.[Translation]Item number 2 is called “Business arising from previous meeting.“ Are there any comments or changes to be made?Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1105)[Translation]I just want to follow up briefly on the minutes, the appendix of which deals with the statistics for pre-testing of parliamentary committee meetings and all the efforts that are being made by the House of Commons Administration to make our meetings more acceptable in terms of interpretation in both languages, whether it is from English into French or from French into English.On the one hand, I would like to thank the Administration for keeping this dashboard, which is very revealing for me. I am really happy to see that the pre-testing is leading to improvements. Over the months, thanks to the dashboard, we have been able to see that the Administration has achieved a very interesting degree of efficiency in facilitating the interpretation and the participation of witnesses, so that they are heard in both languages. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Administration for providing us with this data, which allows us to see the improvements.On the other hand, since these improvements are so interesting, I would like us to be able to communicate them to the Liaison Committee so that the chairs are also aware of all the efforts that are being made, particularly with regard to the percentages of incidents or events that result in meetings being extended. All committee chairs must be made particularly aware of this fact. If the Board of Internal Economy agrees, I would propose that we make these documents accessible to the chairs of all parliamentary committees.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1105)[Translation]Is everyone in agreement?No one tells me otherwise.[English]Mr. Julian.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1105)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I fully agree with sharing this data. We have indeed put in place some arrangements that have greatly improved the situation. There is still work to be done, of course, but I think it is important that this information is passed on to the chairs of the committees and the Liaison Committee. Indeed, this information is important.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1105)[English]Mr. Richards.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1105)[English]Thanks.With the sort of analysis that was done, I noted that it was focused on instances and some of the numbers. I have two questions. First of all, I notice that the largest category was “not significant” as a reason. I'm not sure what would fall into that category. I'm curious what would fall under that category.Secondly, I think the issue is more about the use of resources in terms of the amount of time that's used, rather than the number of instances. In many cases, when you're talking about an extended bit of debate, what you're talking about is maybe that you accommodated the full round of questioning, so the meeting went over by a few minutes. I don't think that's really what we're talking about that stretches the resources. We're talking about when there are filibusters or things like that, which drag a meeting on for hours beyond its end. I would be really curious to see these categories broken down, rather than by instances where they have occurred, by the number of hours for which they've occurred. I think that would be far more telling in terms of what is actually a drag on the resources.Is that something you could go back and do, to provide that information? I think that would be far more useful to both us as the board and to the committee chairs as well.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Who can answer that?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1110)[English] I can perhaps answer that, Mr. Speaker, and Stéphan can jump in if he likes.Absolutely, we could provide that information. It will take a little bit of time, but certainly we could by the next board meeting, Mr. Richards. It's not something that we can generate from the system. It's something we have to do manually, but absolutely, we could.In terms of your other question, the other category, you're right. Even though we had provided to our clerks a number of categories they could check off as to why a given committee went beyond its two-hour expected adjournment time, in many, many cases, other reasons were given. You're right. All totalled, it came up to a significant number—24%, I believe. There were things like the time it took to transition from one panel to the other and things of that nature. Each one of those was less than 1%, but we didn't put it in the chart or the chart would have had too many bars.Again, in terms of your other question, providing stats as to the time, we can certainly provide that.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]Thank you. That would be much appreciated.EricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]If there are no other comments or questions, we'll move on to item number 4.Number 4 is for reimbursement of accommodations, meals and incidental expenses for self-isolation. Our presenter here will be Mr. Paquette.FeesMembers of ParliamentReimbursementBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Certainly, Mr. Richards, go ahead on a point of order.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]Just on item number 3, I know it was removed. I just wondered why. I believe it was one party that asked. I don't know if someone could provide us an update, whoever it was who asked for it to be removed, as to why it was removed.FeesMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Certainly. I'll just pass it on to Mr. Patrice, who can comment on that.FeesMembers of ParliamentReimbursementBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1110)[English] Yes, there was a request by one party, the members of the Liberal Party, to remove the item because they were not ready to proceed. After discussion with the chair of the working group, Mr. Stanton, he agreed to defer the matter to subsequent meetings.FeesMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Are there any other questions on number 3?We'll move back to number 4.[Translation]Mr. Paquette, Ms. Laframboise, you have the floor.Members of ParliamentQuarantine of personsReimbursementMichelPatriceDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1110)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.With this submission, I am seeking the board's directions about the request made by a member for temporary exceptions to the board's bylaws and policies. The member is requesting that you temporarily allow for reimbursement of members' accommodations, meals and incidental expenses for voluntary self-isolation due to the COVID-19 pandemic, specifically when travelling between the national capital region and the constituency.[Translation]Existing board regulations and policies do not generally allow for members to be reimbursed for the costs they incur in quarantining themselves near their homes. Guidelines issued by provincial and territorial public health authorities generally indicate that alternative accommodation is not necessary. However, guidelines can vary considerably from one province or territory to another and tend to change very quickly. For this reason, we are consulting with you to determine if a temporary exception would be appropriate during this exceptional period. This concludes my presentation. We can answer questions from members.Members of ParliamentQuarantine of personsReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Are there any questions or comments?Mr. Rodriguez, you have the floor.DanielPaquettePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have not analyzed this for hours, although I have talked to several people, but instinctively, I am opposed to this. I don't feel comfortable. It's like saying that someone can come to Ottawa, go home, rent a hotel room for a fortnight, come back to Ottawa, go home, and again, get a paid hotel room for a fortnight.We are trying to discourage travel, that is, we are trying to limit the presence of members in the House. I think we are setting an example ourselves by limiting this presence to those who live in or around the national capital region. I don't feel comfortable with that at all.Members of ParliamentQuarantine of personsReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Are there any other questions or comments?Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I agree with Mr. Rodriguez on this issue. I agree with his motives and I will tell you another reason why I, for one, feel uncomfortable.In every riding, essential workers, including nurses and orderlies, leave their homes, husbands and children to work in a hospital, a long-term care centre or a health and social service centre, and return home at the end of the day. These people are at risk because they are helping potentially sick people. They can be contaminated.I'm not comfortable with the idea that a member of Parliament has the privilege of sparing his family by quarantining himself in a hotel room for which he'll be reimbursed when thousands of essential workers do not have that privilege. That sort of adds to my refusal to support this request and to Mr. Rodriguez's arguments. I think it's a difficult situation for everyone, both for essential workers and for members of Parliament. It is not easy to do our jobs right now. It is difficult for all our families.So I would be quite uncomfortable to respond favourably to this request and to be granted special status.Members of ParliamentQuarantine of personsReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Are there any other questions or comments?From what I hear, this request is not approved. So we're going to set it aside.Let's move on to item number 5, the reimbursement of voluntary carbon offset credits.Mr. Paquette, you have the floor.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1115)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am making a submission to obtain direction from the board on a request that has been submitted by three members of Parliament regarding the reimbursement of voluntary carbon offset credits.Last month, the board received a letter stating that the new regulations of the Assemblée nationale du Québec allowed for the reimbursement of carbon offset credits purchased for travel between the constituency and the Assemblée nationale as well as for the energy consumption of their premises related to constituency office activities.In their letter, the members ask the board to consider adopting similar practices for members of the House of Commons.[English] Under the current board bylaws and policies, members and their authorized travellers may only use travel resources provided to them in the fulfillment of their parliamentary functions. Although travel is necessary to carry out these functions, the purchase of carbon offset continues to be a voluntary measure that is not imposed by any legislation or regulation and is considered to be a traveller's personal choice.Also, current bylaws and policies do not allow members to use goods and services provided by the House to donate to any cause or benefit, or support a third party. In 2015, the board considered a similar request at which time it determined that the purchase of carbon offsets for travel did not constitute an auditable use of House resources and would be deemed a donation. The House administration has been applying this decision since then.Following this recent request, we are seeking the board's direction on this matter. Should the board direct the administration to consider the reimbursement of voluntary carbon emission offsets purchased by the members, then the administration would perform the needed analysis and consultation and come back to the board with the appropriate recommendation to be able to do so.[Translation]This concludes my presentation. We are ready to answer questions from members.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Paquette.Are there any questions?[English]Are there any comments?We have Mr. Julian and Madame DeBellefeuille.Mr. Julian.DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1115)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.It is worthwhile, I believe, for these issues to be considered and recommendations to be made within the Board of Internal Economy. The climate crisis affects everyone. So far, I think we have not addressed the way in which members travel. This travel will likely start again later this year, once the third wave has passed. It would be a question of determining how we can improve our policies on these issues. I think it would be important to do that analysis and to discuss it in the next few weeks or months.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Thank you.Now we'll go to Mrs. DeBellefeuille, followed by Mr. Rodriguez.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1120)[Translation]I agree with Mr. Julian's intervention on this subject.Today is Earth Day. What a great day to discuss a project like this! I understand the arguments and I have read the documentation. I think it is worthwhile. Between 2015 and today, the climate change situation has evolved a lot, and I think we should allow ourselves to analyze it a little more thoroughly.For example, the members who wrote the letter mention the decision of the Assemblée nationale du Québec to certify, through a call for tenders, two or three credible organizations, within well-defined limits, to allow for the reimbursement of carbon offset credits for all travel in ridings and on Parliament Hill.You know that the current government has promised to plant trees as a way of offsetting greenhouse gas emissions. This is just one of many ways. Many organizations can currently offset their greenhouse gas emissions by planting trees.I know that for today, we did not have any expectations, and I do not think that members expected us to settle the debate, but rather to start a discussion to come to a good decision in future Board of Internal Economy meetings, to see how everyone can do, as a member of Parliament, to also participate individually. One way is to offset our greenhouse gas emissions. The Assemblée nationale du Québec has made a decision. We could study it carefully. There may also be other models among Five Eyes members.I am therefore in favour of continuing our reflection on this issue.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Rodriguez, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1120)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm going to be a bit of a killjoy today, but at the outset, I have to say that I'm uncomfortable with this. The act of buying voluntary carbon credits is beautiful and noble, but I have always seen it as a personal sacrifice, that is, a personal initiative.I decide to buy carbon credits because I believe in the environment, and I do. There are a lot of things that each of us does. That said, passing the bill on to the government is a bit odd. I decide to do it, I take all the credit, but it's the government that foots the bill. Do you understand what I mean?I'm sure there are many members of the NDP, the Bloc Québécois, and the Conservative Party who take various measures. I think it's a very personal commitment. For this gesture to have value and really count, it has to mean something; there has to be money coming out of our own pocket.Right now, we are looking at flying the flag for fighting climate change, while passing the bill on to Canadians. That is what makes me uncomfortable, Mr. Chair.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Are there any other comments?So how do you want us to proceed? Opinions are divided. Since we don't have a consensus, do we leave it or do we ask for a little more information?I see shrugs, but no more than that.Mr. Julian, you have the floor.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1120)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I believe that doing an analysis and gathering more information is not making a decision. It is a search for information. I think that is normal in this case.All our decisions are taken by consensus. I fully agree with this. It is up to the administration to seek more information. I personally would like to have more information on this.Carbon creditsMembers of ParliamentReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Okay.Thank you very much for your guidance.So we'll wait to get a little more information for next time.Thank you very much, Mr. Julian.We will now go in camera.(1125)[English] We will take five minutes for a break, and then at 11:30 we'll start again in camera.[Proceedings continue in camera]PeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0152nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, March 25, 2021Le jeudi 25 mars 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTMarch 25, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 015NUMBER 015NUMÉRO 015015250320212021/03/25 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1105)[English] We're going to start the agenda, item number one, the minutes from the previous meeting—I just want to check—from February 25, 2021.Are they okay?We are in order—I see heads nodding—so we will move on. [Translation]Let's proceed with item 2 on the agenda, business arising from the previous meeting. For your information, we are looking at resource utilisation for parliamentary events, audio headsets for virtual Parliament, and technical observations on hybrid proceedings and information concerning committee witnesses.Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1105)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First, I would like to thank those who worked on the dashboard requested at the last meeting. I read it carefully. I would like to thank Mr. Janse's team, who probably worked with the IT team to compile the data. The dashboard shows that 90% of the witnesses now participate in technical tests, and this has certainly had a positive impact on the work of the committees. There are far fewer technical difficulties and interpretation issues. So it's satisfying and reassuring to see that, when we make an effort to put a solution in place, it pays off. So I think it was a good decision to ask for technical tests, and we see that it is a success. I'd like to ask a quick question, for personal interest, regarding the headset purchases. A lot of headsets were purchased initially and given to members and staff. However, how many witnesses were there, and how many of them received headsets?The dashboard says that headsets cannot always be delivered on time because witnesses are often called at the last minute. Perhaps I missed it when I looked at the tables, but I would like to know how many headsets were purchased and how many reached the witnesses on time. Is that figure available?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1105)[Translation]We will ask. I don't know who has that information.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]I can give the answer, Mr. Speaker. We sent out 834 headsets and there were a total of 2,120 witnesses.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Can you tell me the percentage?Virtual ParliamentStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[Translation]Let me do the math quickly.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]You say 844—StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[Translation]It's 834, which is almost 40%, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]So, 40% of the witnesses received headsets.Virtual ParliamentStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[Translation]That's right, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]So, 40% of the witnesses received their headsets on time. However, the technical tests have helped us understand that the key is not only the headset, but especially the quality of the microphone. This means that some witnesses who did not receive headsets are encouraged to use their personal microphones to have better sound for the interpreters. Is that correct?Virtual ParliamentStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[Translation]That is correct, Mrs. DeBellefeuille. The technical tests enable us to check whether the microphones the witnesses will use are good enough for them to participate in our meetings. That's what the technical tests allow us to do. We can identify those issues, and if we do the technical tests early in the day, we can notify the witnesses if their microphones do not meet our standards. For example, Apple AirPods are not suitable. We are not saying the microphone is not good, but Bluetooth technology is less recommended for our meetings because we want to protect our interpreters.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Okay. Thank you very much.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Are there any comments on the second item?[English]Mr. Richards, do you have a comment on item number two?ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1110)[English]There are two things. I have a follow-up to some of Madame DeBellefeuille's questions.In regard to some of the incidents you had with the interpreters with injuries and whatnot, I notice that 65 incidents were reported in the first six months and there have only been 16 in the last six months.Has that decline continued? Has the number plateaued? What do we attribute that to? Is it just better use of the headsets? Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English] I believe that's for Monsieur Aubé. BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[English]Basically, Mr. Richards, we did some in the fall—in September and then October. We started this process in July. We replaced some of the audio consoles in the interpretation booths to ensure that the interpreters had better protection. The new consoles are meeting higher standards for hearing protection. This is the major factor in why we have seen the number of incidents go down. I would say that the number of incidents is not going up. The number of incidents has really gone down and are staying down, sir.We're also working on many other factors, as Madame DeBellefeuille talked about. We're ensuring that we have the proper microphones. We're working with the Translation Bureau to do more testing and to validate if we need to increase the norm as it relates to microphones. We're doing many things, sir, to ensure that the quality is there in the audio chain, from the user participating in Zoom right up to our interpreter's booth and that health and safety is respected for the interpreters.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1110)[English] Could I add one thing? I'm sorry, Mr. Richards. I have one quick point.You should also bear in mind that over the past various months, the number of meetings and events has increased. While we see a decrease in injuries—which we hope will continue—we have to keep in mind that it was in parallel with an increase in the number of meetings and activities.Virtual ParliamentStéphanAubéBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1110)[English]On a percentage basis, it's an even better decrease. That's good news.The other thing I wanted to touch on is the resources for committee meetings and other items. In that area, you've expressed some concerns about arriving at a point where we may get to a bit of a breaking point, for lack of a better way of putting it, in use of resources. I'm really concerned about that. I wanted to probe a little bit about it. Since the beginning of the pandemic and probably even more so after prorogation, we've seen a bit of a trend toward longer meetings and ones that are running more than 15 minutes, or even longer, beyond the projected time they would end.I'm wondering if you've done any analysis of the reasons behind that increase or trend toward longer meetings. We've noticed a lot of Liberal filibusters at committee, for example. Have you tracked that and done an analysis on how much of that is being driven by the Liberal filibusters that are happening at committees to try to delay business? If those filibusters were to end, what kind of a difference would that make to resource allocations and making this a little bit more manageable?Virtual ParliamentEricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]We'll go to you on that, Mr. Janse.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1115)[English]I'm a bit reluctant to comment on the issue of filibusters, but what I can mention, Mr. Richards, is that before the introduction of the voting app, votes in the House took a considerable amount of time and would delay committee meetings. By the time people went from voting to logging on to their committee meeting, it took a bit of time, delayed the start of committees and resulted in committees going longer. In general, just the time it takes to log in is slowing things down and accounts for why a lot meetings are going a bit beyond time. There's the time to log the witnesses in as well.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]I appreciate that.I can see how it might appear that I'm trying to get partisan here. That's not the case. A lot of filibustering is taking place. My concern is that when that happens.... You're telling us that resources are sort of at a breaking point. I'm trying to figure out how much of that is actually a result of the filibusters and how much of that is just an issue of not being able to keep pace with the committees. If it's not being able to keep pace, it's a different issue than if it were as a result of filibusters, which are avoidable and preventable. I'm trying to get a sense of this. I'm hearing that maybe you haven't analyzed how much of it is actually due to filibusters and how much of it is due to the sheer volume of meetings. Is that what I'm hearing?Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1115)[English] No.Virtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Is that something that you, maybe, would analyze? I would suggest that it might be a good idea to analyze that because, obviously, it's a different.... We're looking at a different problem if it's literally just that we can't keep up with the number of meetings—because we have to ensure that we can do that—versus if it's an issue of filibusters. That's a little less inside your control. That's why I suggest it.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1115)[English]It's a fair point. We can do a bit of an analysis of that and come back with some information for the next board meeting—or before.Virtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Great. That would be appreciated. Thank you.EricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Our next person on the schedule is Mr. Julian, followed by Mr. Holland.However, before I go to Mr. Julian, Mr. Richards mentioned the microphone being...the quality and the health of our interpreters. I just want to remind all of the people who are on today that it's best if the arm is about halfway between your nose and your upper lip so that we can avoid the popping sound. That will take into consideration the health of our interpreters, whom we care about so much.Monsieur Julian.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1115)[Translation] Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English] Sorry, Mr. Speaker, could I interject before we move on? To be clear, they've asked me to put it closer to my mouth.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]You're doing fine, Mr. Richards. Actually, I should say that that's standard, but depending on where your breath goes, you could hold it lower between your lower lip and your chin. These are things that I observe while I'm sitting in the chair and watching you guys speak. Now you know what I do with my time.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]No, no, I appreciate that. I had a phone call. They asked me to put it closer, so I moved it based on that. I just wanted to make sure that I hadn't moved it to the wrong place.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]No, the big concern is when it's directly in front of your mouth. When your breath comes out, it pops on it, and it's very difficult on the interpreters' ears.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Okay. I'll try to adjust it just a little bit.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]No, you were fine. Don't worry about it. I just notice it being there for some.Anyways, Mr. Julian, you have a comment.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1115)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.Since we want to discuss a lot of topics today, I will start immediately. First, I want to mention that I am very pleased with the progress we have made and especially with the fact that we have more and more equipment that reduces the injury rate of interpreters. Interpreters do a lot of hard work and reducing the number of injuries helps them tremendously.Second, I would like to ask Mr. Aubé a question. While we are pleased with the progress, there are still some problems. What will it take for us to reduce the incidents affecting our interpreters to zero? I have experience working in factories where you go days, weeks or months without an injury. It's part of the workers' health and safety program. What do we need to do to reduce to zero the incidents that cause problems and injuries to our interpreters, who are doing an outstanding job?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1120)[Translation]Mr. Julian, thank you for the question.First, we have worked very hard to address the major problem of acoustic bursts. We did so by investing in consoles for the interpreters. Now our job is to make sure that the chain from the participants in the meeting to the interpreters is good. As you saw in January and February, the first thing we need to do is the technical tests. Before people participate in the meeting, we need to have the opportunity to check that the microphone is positioned correctly, that the environment in which the person is going to participate is good, and that their connectivity is good. These three major factors affect the quality of the sound and, consequently, could cause problems for the interpreters. That's what we are working on. Finally, we are examining the equipment in the committee rooms, in the House of Commons on an ongoing basis. If we are able to increase the quality by making modifications or changes to the configuration, we will do so. For example, in the last three weeks, we have conducted some tests with the Translation Bureau, because we noticed that, in committee, the sound quality was slightly lower than in the House. We are in the process of checking whether this is the case through extensive tests to compare the sound from those participating on Zoom to the committee room and the interpretation booth. We have put a lot of effort into this. In addition, we have a number of people on site. As you can see, a lot of people are present in the committee rooms to make sure that we are able to address any issues that may arise with our interpreters. So those are the different things that we're looking at to improve the situation. In closing, we are in the process of implementing an ongoing improvement program. Every week, we look at the statistics and assess what has caused difficulties. We try to fix those problems so that they don't happen again the next week.Virtual ParliamentPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English] Now we will go to Mr. Holland.StéphanAubéMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland (Chief Government Whip): (1120)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.First, let me thank you and the entire team for your efforts. There has been a marked improvement in the quality of the interpretation, but also in the health of our interpreters. Thank you very much for your efforts.[English]I have just a quick note. If we're going to talk on the issue of resources, then I really do want to raise this point. It is the opposition's right, of course, to troll and look for anything it might find useful for itself. Hopefully its principle purpose in that is what's useful for the country. It's the government's right to disagree with what it is trying to bring forward and say that is not what is of most importance to the nation right now or for the advantage of Parliament.I do think it's a good opportunity to talk about the use of Standing Order 106(4). I do think it's a good time to talk about all of the creation of new committees and work that is being placed on interpreters and to ask who is creating that work. Who is demanding all of these additional resources and all of the additional time that is being taken? Of course, that is a rhetorical question. I would never actually ask that of House administration because that would be an incredibly partisan thing to do and this is not supposed to be a partisan environment.I do think it is worthwhile for us, as we think about the people who work with us and who do an incredible job of supporting us as we pursue our individual agendas and what we are trying to take care of, to think about the work that they have to do and how much time they have to spend to do it. As the opposition creates new committee meetings under Standing Order 106(4) and decides to continue to press issues that are not being talked about in the national dialogue and demands that Parliament spend all of its time and energy on those issues, perhaps the opposition members could give some time and consideration for all of the people they are putting out along the way.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]Thank you very much.Mr. Julian. MarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have said this before at the Board of Internal Economy. I believe firmly that we have to put our partisan hats aside at the Board of Internal Economy. I certainly prefer that we not have these kinds of debates. I don't think they are appropriate for the board where it is strictly non-partisan and where we put aside whatever party, whether we represent the government or the opposition. This is not the place nor the role for the BOIE. I feel uncomfortable with a couple of the comments that have come up so far today. I just wanted to raise that.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]Okay, how about we leave it at that? Everybody has made their comments.[Translation] Before moving on to the next item on the agenda, I propose, with the agreement of the members, to distribute the briefing documents on the committee proceedings in the item on business arising from the previous meeting of the Liaison Committee.[English]Is everybody is okay? Good.[Translation] We will continue with item 3.[English]Number 3 is the Canadian Council of Legislative Auditors, CCOLA, and the Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committee, CCPAC, 2022 conference. Our presenter is Ms. Sgro, and we have Mrs. Block as well. PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1787Judy A.SgroHon.JudyA--SgroHumber River—Black CreekLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/SgroJudyA_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Judy A. Sgro (Chair, Liaison Committee, House of Commons): (1125)[English]Thank you very much. I believe Mrs. Block was going to go first in the presentation, but since you have called me, I will move on—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]I didn't want to mess up your order here. I'm just reading what I have before me. I read half of it, anyway. I'm sorry about the second half. You two can decide who wants to go first. Judy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1787Judy A.SgroHon.JudyA--SgroHumber River—Black CreekLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/SgroJudyA_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Judy A. Sgro: (1125)[English] Good morning, members of the board.I want to thank Mrs. Block, who is going to do a presentation in detail on the conference for which we are seeking your approval today. Mrs. Block gave a presentation to the subcommittee on committee budgets—SBLI—on behalf of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, on March 12. Her request was approved unanimously by the members of the subcommittee. I now present the request, of course, to the board for approval, as is the process.The budget before you is based on the participation of 110 delegates and 25 accompanying persons. The conference will take place basically over two days, from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday afternoon when folks would depart.The cost of the conference is shared between CCPAC and CCOLA in an approximate sixty five-thirty five split, depending on the participation of each group, with CCPAC absorbing the greater percentage because there are more CCPAC members participating than the CCOLA members. That also means that the revenues generated by the conference fees are split in the same way.You'll see in the budget document that the global cost is $97,785. The PACP's share of that cost is $27,000 once the conference fees are calculated.The committee is asking that a maximum of $42,000, including anticipated revenues for registration fees, in temporary funding be provided for the organization of the conference in 2022.I believe Mrs. Block wanted to now speak to the issue, as well.Canadian Council of Legislative AuditorsCanadian Council of Public Accounts CommitteesGovernment expendituresAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingKellyBlockCarlton Trail—Eagle Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59156KellyBlockKelly-BlockCarlton Trail—Eagle CreekConservative CaucusSaskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BlockKelly_CPC.jpgInterventionMrs. Kelly Block (Chair, Standing Committee on Public Accounts, House of Commons): (1130)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Sgro.Good morning, members of the board. I am pleased to join you today.As Ms. Sgro has outlined, today we are seeking approval and funding to host the 2022 conference of the Canadian Council of Legislative Auditors and Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees. I know you have received a submission in detail, so I just hope to give the broader context.The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, of which I am the chair, is a member of the Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees. This council and the Canadian Council of Legislative Auditors host an annual meeting to discuss best practices and provide information sessions on issues related to the study of public accounts.The CCPAC was first created in 1978 and has held joint meetings almost every year since 1979, with each jurisdiction taking its turn to host. The federal committee has never hosted this event. Discussions have been ongoing since 2017 to have the federal committee host the meeting in November 2020. The PACP adopted a motion to host the conference in 2022, once the appropriate budget had been prepared and adopted and the necessary permission from the host had been received.I'll just repeat that first part. Discussions have been ongoing since 2017 to have the federal government host the meeting, and in November that is when the PACP adopted a motion to do so in 2022.I would simply also state that the chair at that time, in 2017 up until 2019, was Mr. Sorenson. He was a firm supporter of the committee participating in these conferences and of the federal committee taking its turn to host in Ottawa.Canadian Council of Legislative AuditorsCanadian Council of Public Accounts CommitteesGovernment expendituresJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Do we have any questions from the board? Is everyone in agreement?Some hon. members: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: Very good. We'll move on to item 4.[Translation] Item 4 on the agenda is the Special Committee on the Economic Relationship between Canada and the United States. Mr. Janse has the floor.KellyBlockCarlton Trail—Eagle CreekEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I will be brief. Whenever a special committee is created, the funding comes directly from the Board of Internal Economy, not from the funding for all standing committees.[English]Members have before them a submission that seeks a start-up budget for the recently created Special Committee on the Economic Relationship between Canada and the United States, with a recommendation that the funds required for this committee, nonetheless, come from the global envelope for standing committees.Government expendituresSpecial Committee on the Economic Relationship between Canada and the United StatesAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Are there any questions?[English] Is everything clear? Are we okay with the recommendation? Is everybody in accordance with it?Okay.[Translation] We will continue with item 5.[English]It's the Joint Interparliamentary Council.[Translation] This is the Parlement francophone des jeunes of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, whose 47th annual session will be held in Montreal, Quebec, from July 7 to 12, 2022. Our speaker today is Mr. Drouin. Mr. Drouin, you have the floor.EricJanseFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin (Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, Lib.): (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Members of Parliament, as chair of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie (APF), I would like to thank you for receiving our request to add the Parlement francophone des jeunes to the annual session of the APF scheduled for July 2022 in Montreal. The explanations for holding the event and the reasons for this additional request are detailed in the note that accompanied the letter sent to you on February 12. We are all interested in educating young people about parliamentary action, and approval of this request would support that goal. Finally, we will be pleased to invite you, when the time comes, to participate in this major francophone event, so that you can see for yourselves the vitality of the Canadian francophonie. I will be pleased to answer your questions.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Are there any questions or comments?Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.FrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1130)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Drouin. I am pleased to speak to you. Clearly, we agree on that, but I wanted to know if your game plan calls for the event to be held in person or in another form.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin: (1135)[Translation]We are currently planning an in-person event. Mr. LeBlanc will be able to give you more details, but I know that the contracts include force majeure clauses in case the meeting cannot be held in Montreal in 2022.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Principal Clerk, Chamber Business and Parliamentary Publications): (1135)[Translation]Yes, Mr. Deltell, I see what you are getting at in terms of the possibility of holding the meeting in a hybrid or virtual format. It will be up to the International Executive Committee of the APF to make the decision. However, we are ready and we have begun negotiations on how to adapt if the event is held in hybrid or virtual form.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Okay. Are there any other questions or comments?Are we in agreement on the recommendation? Everyone agrees, that's great. We'll continue with item 6. [English]Number six is the distribution of certain mailings to members' constituents living outside Canada.The presenters today are Ms. Kletke and Ms. Allard.Please begin.JeremyLeBlancRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke (Chief Operations Officer, House of Commons): (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to present a submission seeking approval from the Board of Internal Economy to amend certain regulations and policies. As a result of a request from a member of Parliament, the House Administration has reviewed the Board's policies regarding the distribution of householders and mailings to constituents residing outside Canada. The Members By-Law currently provides that householder and constituency mailings may be distributed only within the member's constituency.[English]The restriction of householders and constituency mail to within the constituency of the member means that members' constituents living outside of Canada do not receive these mailings. Constituents who reside outside of Canada and are registered to vote with Elections Canada are recorded in the international register of electors, which is provided to members annually by the Chief Electoral Officer. After the general election held in October 2019, there were 167,392 electors in the international register of electors.In recognition of the need for members to communicate with all of their constituents, including Canadian Forces and other Canadians living outside of Canada, the House administration is proposing updates to the board's policies on householders and constituency mail. First, the House administration proposes that the policy regarding householders be changed to allow members to send householders as addressed mail to their constituents living outside of Canada whose information is included in the international register of electors provided by the Chief Electoral Officer. Costs for additional copies of householders would continue to be charged to the members' office budget, and envelope costs and costs for international postage would also be charged to the MOB.Second, the House administration proposes that the policy regarding constituency mail be changed to allow members to send a portion of their original constituency mail allocation as addressed mail to their constituents living outside of Canada, whose information is included in the the international register of electors. Envelope costs and international postage for constituency mail sent to constituents living outside of Canada would be charged to the MOB. [Translation] These recommendations, if approved, will allow members to use householder and constituency mailings to communicate with all their constituents, including those living outside of Canada. This concludes my presentation. I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]For questions and comments, we'll start off with Mr. Richards.RebekahKletkeBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]Thanks for the presentation, and I appreciate the attention this has received. I think an important matter was raised. I'll ask a question and make a suggestion at the same time. I'm wondering if this fully captures the aspect of military personnel and their dependants. I assume that in your consideration this would include military personnel outside of Canada. That's a question. But what about those within Canada who would be stationed on a base outside of the constituency where they are electors? I'm wondering if this captures them. It doesn't seem that it would.I have a suggestion to make. In points one and two you talked about adding addressed mail, the householder or constituency mailings for constituents living outside Canada. That's how you've termed it. I wonder if we could make it “constituents living outside of the electoral district” or something like that, because although it would capture, I assume, military members and their dependants who are stationed outside of Canada, I'm not certain that it would capture those posted on a base within Canada who are electors elsewhere. I want to make sure they are captured as well. I think it's important to ensure that all of our military personnel are receiving the same opportunity to get communications from their MPs.Would the suggestion I've made capture all of those people, or do you believe you've already done so?Canadians in foreign countriesConstituenciesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Monsieur Patrice will respond to that question.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1140)[English]Thank you, Mr. Richards.You're totally right. The proposal as presented right now is about Canadians living abroad, but it doesn't capture constituents who may live outside a riding. To reach those types of constituents, they would need to modify it. If it's the wish of the board, we could definitely make that change to the submission to capture Canadians outside of a riding who are registered abroad and those within Canada.Canadians in foreign countriesConstituenciesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]Do you think the suggestion I'm making would capture all of them, or do you have another suggestion?Canadians in foreign countriesConstituenciesHouseholdersMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1140)[English]We would look at the wording to make sure it captures what you addressed, but there are also other constituents. For example, it could be students who are registered in a riding but studying, for example, in another....Canadians in foreign countriesConstituenciesHouseholdersBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]Yes, good point. I'd like to see us capture that. I'll make that suggestion. If other members are willing to consider that, I think it's important to include those people as well.I have something else, but I think what I'm going to do is lower my hand, Mr. Speaker, and raise it again so that we can deal with this particular aspect. I have a question that relates to printing and mailing, but I think it's better that we have this discussion first. I will raise my hand to bring that up afterwards.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Okay.We'll now go to Madame DeBellefeuille.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand the proposal, but I cannot give my support to my colleague Mr. Richards at this time. I don't have the information for a comprehensive analysis. For the time being, I am in favour of adopting the submission before us and reflecting on this proposal at the next meeting.I have other questions, but perhaps they are not appropriate for this meeting. I would like to understand the full implications of this proposal before we add it. I'm not opposed to it, but I would like to have more analyses and recommendations from the House Administration before deciding on this issue.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Thank you. We will now continue with Ms. Petitpas Taylor. After that, it will be Mr. Richards' turn.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88364GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Ginette-PetitpasTaylorMoncton—Riverview—DieppeLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/PetitpasTaylorGinette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Deputy Government Whip): (1140)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker.In the same vein as the previous speaker, I wasn't planning to speak to this, but I'm wondering how we would capture students within our ridings who are in other areas, or military personnel who perhaps are not living at home and are at another base.With respect to the proposal that's been brought forward, there's a registry in place, an international registry. How would we be able to capture people who are living outside of their riding if they're not registered in a specific area? I'm just looking for a bit of clarification on that.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Monsieur Patrice will answer that.GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1140)[English]It would be the information, as I understand.... We're not providing those lists, but it would be based on the lists that MPs receive pursuant to the Canada Elections Act. We could look further into what information they provide you in the lists. It's clear that for people abroad you're getting a mailing address, but it could be the same thing in relation to other constituents. We would need to have a better understanding of the list that is provided to MPs on a confidential basis.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Very good.Now we'll go back to Mr. Richards.MichelPatriceBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1145)[English]As long as we've addressed anyone else who wants to comment on this particular suggestion, I would like to move on to another topic. It appears that's the case.I'll make one last comment on this. I'm hearing the concerns that were raised about ensuring that there is a way to capture those people. I think there would be, because if I understand the proposal correctly, it would be on us to address them based on the information we have available to us from electors.If it's the feeling among members that we approve this, we can ask them to come back with a suggestion on how to deal with people within Canada. As long as there's a commitment that they can find a way to capture those people in a satisfactory way, we will be seeking to approve it. If we're satisfied with this, I would be comfortable doing it that way, because I think it's important that we find a way to do this. As long as we make a commitment that we're.... As long as they can come back with a way to show us that this can be captured in a reasonable way, we would be seeking to move forward. I'd be comfortable with that approach.There is another issue I want to raise. I can't remember which meeting it was, but at a previous meeting I had raised the topic of service standards with printing and mailing services. I know that some suggestions were going to be brought back to us on how those could be improved. In the last little while, some additional concerns have been raised to me by members of my caucus about some of the delays and things like that, so obviously we still have work to do there. I'm wondering what the status of that is and when we can expect to see something come forward to us. Is there any update you can provide to us on the work being done to improve those standards? Can you bring something back to the board with suggestions on that?Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Ms. Kletke, do you want to answer that?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1145)[English]Sure.We are planned to come back. We're on the forward agenda for the May board meeting, with the further analysis that's been done. That follows the submission we brought to the last board meeting. That's when we're planning to come back.Canadians in foreign countriesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[English]Okay, are there any other questions or comments?Just to be clear, we'll be coming back with a report. In the meantime, we have a list of recommendations.Is everyone okay with the recommendations that are being suggested? I see everybody nodding.[Translation] We will now move to item 7 on the agenda, which is the modernization of election-related policies. The presenters are Mr. Paquette, Mr. Aubé, Ms. Laframboise, Mr. Dufresne and Ms. Kletke.I'll let you speak to your submission. Please go ahead.RebekahKletkeDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am here today to seek the Board of Internal Economy's approval to update and harmonize certain policies in the Members' Allowances and Services Manual and the Members By-law in relation to the dissolution and the post-election or transition period. Following the last general election and in light of the challenges raised by members of Parliament and House officers, as well as issues raised by others and heard during consultations, the administration noted opportunities to update certain Board policies. I will provide an overview of some of the recommendations that are in the submission.To begin with, the current post-election travel policy does not allow eligible employees of members of Parliament to travel between the constituency and Ottawa following a general election to assist the members of Parliament in closing their files and vacating their offices. In order to properly support members of Parliament, we recommend that eligible incumbent employees be provided with the same post-election travel allowances as outgoing members between the constituency and Ottawa.(1150)[English] Next are two closely related items pertaining to access to the parliamentary precinct network and the purchase of cellphones. Under current policy, members who are not seeking re-election have access to the parliamentary precinct until the day before the general election, and members who are not re-elected have access to the network for 21 days after the election.These former members must also return their telecommunication equipment such as their cellphones. The current time frames do not allow enough time for former members to complete the administrative tasks and to settle the accounts with the House.Extending the duration of access to the network would better serve members in settling their accounts. The administration here is recommending that external access to the parliamentary precinct network be increased to 90 days following the election for members who are not seeking re-election or who are not re-elected. They would retain one House-managed portable device during that period to facilitate the process. This would also align with the period that members have to settle their financial accounts.As for cellphones, former members have expressed an interest in purchasing their devices to help ensure a certain continuity at a time when they are experiencing many changes. It is our proposal that, following an election, these members be allowed to purchase their cellphones for personal use at a fair market value.Other recommendations relate to the mandatory clauses in constituency office leases. This proposal builds on revised assignment clauses approved by the board in 2015 where the leases of former members are assigned to the House for the 120 day period following an election. The administration noticed opportunities for further improvements, which would help facilitate a smooth transition between former and newly elected members. These revised clauses would be included in new constituency office leases or the extension of existing leases after the next general election.Also, with respect to transition support, the administration is recommending adjustments to better align the policies and by-laws in order to ensure that former members can effectively use these various transition supports.Mr. Chair, this concludes my presentation. We are here to answer any questions that board members may have.Electoral systemMembers' Allowances and Services ManualMembers of ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[English]I believe Mr. Julian has a question.Monsieur Julian.DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1150)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, I do not want to ask any questions, but I do want to make a comment. I would like to say that I support the recommendations that have been provided. I think it is extremely important to have a reasonable transition period. We know full well how difficult it is to go through an election period and then to not have the resources for everyone, the outgoing employees and the members, for the ensuing transition. That is a problem. So I think this approach makes sense because it improves that transition.[English]I would also say, Mr. Chair, that I think a more appropriate transition is also good for Canadians. We have a situation where MPs come out of an election campaign. If we're talking about a defeated member of Parliament, it's important that there be some transition with the new member of Parliament, even if they are from a different party.Putting in place these measures, I think, just makes sense for their constituents as well. We need to have a little more of a framework and support and order around the transition that comes out of the chaos of an election campaign, so I fully support these measures.[Translation] Thank you.Electoral systemMembers' Allowances and Services ManualMembers of ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[Translation]Are there any other questions or comments?[English] Are we okay with the recommendations that have been put forward?[Translation] Everyone is in agreement. That's great. We will now take a short break for a few minutes and then continue in camera. [Proceedings continue in camera]PeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0142nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, February 25, 2021Le jeudi 25 février 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTFebruary 25, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 014NUMBER 014NUMÉRO 014014250220212021/02/25 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Honourable Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1105)[English] I'll call the meeting to order.We'll start off with the minutes of the previous meeting.[Translation]Do you have any comments or questions?As there are none, the minutes of the previous meeting are adopted.If you don't mind, we'll go straight to item 3 on the agenda. Mr. Stanton and his team are here, and they have some very important things to do at noon. So I would not want them to be delayed in case we need more time to deal with agenda item 2. Is everybody in agreement? No one is against the change. It's perfect.[English]We'll go to the LTVP working group recommendations, and to Mr. Stanton, the chair of that working group.Please proceed, Mr. Stanton.BruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton (Chair, Working Group on the LTVP and the Centre Block Rehabilitation): (1105)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning, colleagues.As you know, I'm reporting here today as the chair of the long-term vision plan working group. I'm joined here again by officials who are on this project on a daily basis. We have Susan Kulba, with digital services and real property section here in Parliament; and Rob Wright and Jennifer Garrett from PSPC.To update you on essentially two main points that arose out of our meeting on February 5, the first is to share some costing information that has been shared with the working group from PSPC, and, secondly, to put in front of you our recommendation for a concept design option for the main entry to the Parliament welcome centre. Before we go to those, I want to give you a few little photos of a presentation on the progress of construction, which continues to move along well and remains on track with respect to all of the project plans.On the first item, PSPC presented their approach to establishing a full costing for the Centre Block project. They outlined the key project decisions that have been made so far that have impacted the overall costs, including preserving the existing size or footprint of the House of Commons, for example, the size of the Parliament welcome centre, and things like the proposed use of the existing light courts and light wells.To build on this, they went on to itemize some of the remaining decisions that will further add to the accuracy and overall costing of the project.To give you an idea of where the project is currently, in terms of expenditures relative to budget, the initial allocation for Centre Block was $655 million. This was for the five-year period, fiscal 2017-18 through until fiscal 2021-22. To date, $150 million of that $655 million has been spent, and that has been used to enable the design and construction activities, including interior demolition work and the abatement of hazardous materials.With regard to the second part of that budget relating to the Parliament welcome centre, an initial budget of $106 million was allocated, again for the same five-year period, 2017-18 through to 2021-22, the next fiscal year. To date, out of that $106 million, $35 million has been spent, and that's been used to essentially complete all of the design elements as well as to begin the excavation activities.As a final note on the cost side of this equation, decisions have been taken that have helped to put some precision around these costs. I point to a decision, first of all early on, when, as an example, the House of Commons chamber was established with a decision not to make it any bigger than it currently is—to keep the existing footprint. That essentially avoided a cost of an extra $100 million, had we chosen to expand it. Secondly, on the Parliament welcome centre, you will recall that we opted for the medium-size approach to the welcome centre, and that was $120 million less than had we gone for the larger welcome centre.(1110)[Translation]Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, will stay in touch with its parliamentary partners to make the other important decisions this spring. Turner & Townsend will complete the construction cost estimates and benchmarking reports, after which we will have more information for you.We also received an update from Centrus, the architectural firm responsible for the Centre Block, on its work since the fall to refine the access strategy for the Parliament welcome centre.Indeed, you may recall that we have used an independent design review panel, or IDRP, to provide advice during the development of this important part of the project. This committee is comprised of reputable professionals in the design community who have experience with issues related to the project.It was created last fall by PSPC, with the support of the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada, to provide an independent assessment of the main entry project. This entry and its location are extremely sensitive from a heritage perspective and given their potential impact on the front lawn of Parliament.After considering the review panel's concerns and suggestions, Centrus officials presented us with various options for the central entry, and then indicated which one they preferred and which received unanimous consent from the panel members. They liked the simplicity and elegance of this option and the way it mitigates the impact on the heritage elements surrounding it.[English] The preferred option locates an entrance on either side of the central stair. You'll see before you on slide 4 a plan view of what we mean, with an added pathway on each side departing from the central walkway as you approach the central stairs, each leading directly to each new entrance. The geometry of the paths themselves is drawn from the existing geometry. You'll see that the pathways, the symmetry or the geometry, if you will, of the paths on either side of the walkway very much mirror the approach taken by the Pearson-designed entrances under the Peace Tower.Some advantages of these entrances are the fact that they're visible. Each of them will be visible from the central walkway, so it's an intuitive and easily understood pathway for visitors who have never been to the Hill before. It's a gentle slope towards the new entrances, so these will be ramps that help improve accessibility and will not require handrails. Thirdly, the entrance design is simple and is accomplished with as little intervention into the heritage features and materials as possible. There's minimal impact on the use of the lawn that is enjoyed by so many for activities throughout the year. We as a working group had the opportunity to ask questions and have a discussion with the IDRP to understand and explore the design that they had presented, and we are satisfied and believe that the proposed option responds to any concerns as to how the entrance might interfere with or encroach upon the front lawn and that it meets the operational requirements of the Parliament welcome centre.Based on the merits of the proposed option, the working group recommends that your board endorse this design option for the central entry to the welcome centre. I'll welcome any questions or suggestions the board may have on those concept options.(1115)[Translation]Our next steps will be to review the key elements of the decisions advocated by PSPC in order to establish the basic costing. After reviewing each of these key elements, we will make recommendations and seek your advice.We will also be meeting with our Senate colleagues in the coming weeks to discuss the proposal to fill the skylights in the Centre and East Blocks, and we will inform you of the outcome of our discussions.[English]I thank you for your attention, and I'm happy to take any questions that you may have. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Are there any questions or comments for Mr. Stanton?[English]Not seeing any, I want to thank Mr. Stanton and your team for coming today and filling us in on where we're at.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1115)[English]That's great. Thank you very much.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]It looks very good. Thank you for all of your hard work.Do we have the agreement of everyone to proceed? Very good.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1115)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English] Thank you.[Translation]We will now turn to item 2: Business arising from previous meeting.Are there any questions or comments?Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.FrenchVirtual ParliamentBruceStantonSimcoe NorthClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc québécois): (1115)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, I misheard: are we at item 2 or item 1?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]We are at item 2.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]We are at item 2, so we are now talking about the business arising from the previous meeting.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Exactly.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1115)[Translation]I have a few comments and a few requests to make to the members of the Board of Internal Economy, or the board for short.So far, we have done a good job, and there may be a few things left to address in relation to all the means used to allow for better interpretation and participation of members of Parliament in both official languages. I had the privilege of attending the last meeting of the Liaison Committee, where we discussed the report on parliamentary committee expenses that was tabled in the House of Commons today.I asked a few questions that I am submitting to you to see if the board would agree to formally make this request to the clerks and the Liaison Committee. I was curious to know how many headsets had been purchased, which was not mentioned in the report. However, it is an indicator that would tell us how many headsets we manage to send to witnesses so that they are able to testify and have their comments interpreted into both languages. I would like to pay tribute to all the work the clerks do. They have made a dashboard to ensure that witnesses are called and that the connection and the equipment is tested before they appear.It would be interesting to draw up a follow-up dashboard. Indeed, since new practices are being introduced to improve witness participation in both official languages, we should ensure that their testimony is properly interpreted and that they have a good connection and functioning equipment. However, in order to be able to evaluate these measures, records must be kept on each committee and each witness so that the board can then determine whether the continuous improvement process has been successful or whether more resources or other means are required to further improve it.I would like to propose today that the members of the board compile the number of headsets that have been purchased in the latest report that was tabled in the House today. In addition, can the clerks create a dashboard to track new measures to assess their effectiveness as they are introduced and to continuously improve them? They would report to the board in the next quarter so that together we can be proud of the efforts we have all made to ensure that all members and witnesses are able to work in either official language and are assured that their interventions are properly interpreted.I submit this request to you under item 2, Mr. Speaker, but I do not know if my colleagues agree with me.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Do we all agree with these requests?Everyone is in agreement.Mr. Janse, would you like to say a few words on this? I know it's within your purview.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1120)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker and Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Following the discussion at the Liaison Committee meeting earlier this week, I have already begun discussions with my team and with our colleague, Mr. Stéphan Aubé. Yes, we will be able to provide statistics to the Liaison Committee and the board on the number of headsets. We will also be able to provide, as you have suggested, a dashboard to record the number of incidents. We hope that the statistics will show a decrease in incidents as a result of the new process we will have put in place.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]All right.EricJanseClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1120)[Translation]Thank you very much.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Thank you for your intervention.Are there any other questions or comments? Does everyone agree on item 2?Since everyone is in agreement, we now move on to item 4.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1120)[English] Mr. Chair.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English] I'm sorry, Mr. Richards. Please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English] While we're on the topic of interpretation, it might be a good time to discuss the point that I want to raise as well. As you know, Chair—and I'm sure others are aware—I had raised a question of privilege in the House about this issue. You didn't find a prima facie case for it, but it doesn't mean that it isn't an issue and one that maybe we should discuss. It centres around the resources that are available for committees.We're finding that committees are being prevented from continuing their meetings or finishing items of business they're needing to finish, particularly when there ends up being a filibuster or something like that. We even had it go so far that one day when there was only the one meeting, there we still not resources available apparently.I think we do need to have a discussion about this and how we might find ways to ensure that those resources can be made available. Maybe it's a question for some of our folks in administration. Are there ways that we can find to address these things so that they don't occur? Whether it was considered a breach of privilege or not, it certainly is problematic to the workings of Parliament when a committee is prevented from continuing its work based on a lack of interpretation available or rooms, or things like that. Is there something we could do to be looking at ways to focus the resources or to bring in new resources to help address these challenges?I'm not sure if there's someone here who is able to address those points, but I think it's something that we do need to have a conversation about.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]I believe Mr. Patrice and Mr. Gagnon have some comments on that, but if it's okay, we'll go to Mr. Julian first. He may have some points, and then they can answer all the questions at once.Mr. Julian.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1120)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.I agree with Mrs. DeBellefeuille and Mr. Richards. It is problematic.Our country advocates the equality of the two official languages. This means that in committees and in Parliament, we must have access to interpretation services at all times. Interpreters are extremely dedicated and they work hard. However, there is a significant lack of resources, which has already been recognized, but is now critical.Unfortunately, in all likelihood, there will be a third wave of the pandemic. This means that resources will have to be in place for parliamentarians to continue their work in virtual mode.The issue that has just been raised is crucial. It is important that we respond by putting the necessary resources in place to ensure that employees are treated well and that their health and safety are not jeopardized.In addition, committee members must be able to meet while having the resources to work.For all these reasons, I stress the importance of responding to this urgent need, as my colleagues have done.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Mr. Gagnon, can you answer the questions that have been asked?PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAndréGagnonAndréGagnonAndré-GagnonInterventionMr. André Gagnon (Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.Thank you, Mr. Richards.[English]Thank you as well, Mr. Julian.Following the Speaker's ruling on the events in the health committee that led to the question of privilege raised by Mr. Richards, there was a protocol that was shared with all of the parties that would essentially guide the administration with respect to requests from committees either to pursue—FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1125)[Translation]On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.The interpreter tells me that Mr. Gagnon's microphone is not near his mouth and that this makes interpretation difficult.AndréGagnonAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]All right. If I may, I would like to point out that when Skype is running in the background, it causes problems. This is what I have found with my own computer. When Skype, Teams and Zoom are running, there is interference between them.You can check on your computer whether Skype is working.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1125)[Translation]This is not the case for me.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]On our side, it is more when we talk. I just wanted to share this information with you.I give the floor back to Mr. Gagnon.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtAndréGagnonAndréGagnonAndré-GagnonInterventionMr. André Gagnon: (1125)[Translation]I am sorry for all this.I was, I believe, on the issue of protocols issued to the parties to manage requests arising from extensions, extensions of [Technical difficulty].FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Mr. Gagnon, we can't hear you at all because of technical problems.We will therefore give the floor to Mr. Patrice, who is here.AndréGagnonMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.I am not going to presume to know what Mr. Gagnon was going to talk about. He can continue along the same lines later on.Indeed, the question of resources is of great concern to us in the administration. We are in further discussions with our partners to try to assess and determine the extent to which we could add slots for committee activities, particularly when the House is sitting. As you are aware, committee resources and activities have increased significantly, particularly since November.According to the figures and statistics, which I will be happy to provide to the board members, the rate of time slot usage is much higher than in previous years. The House Administration and its partners are doing their utmost to meet the needs of members and provide them with the time slots they require.As for the weeks when the House is not sitting, I want to report, with respect to resource issues,[English] the unfortunate incident at the Friday meeting when there was only one committee meeting, when we could and should have supported that committee. It was a miscommunication that occurred. We own that mistake. The protocol will no doubt avoid a situation like that recurring.In the non-sitting weeks, there's definitely more availability of sitting time, whether it's for committees or associations, because the utilization rate of those weeks is not as high as during sitting weeks. FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Are there any other questions or comments?[Translation]Are we ready to move on to the next step or the next item?I see that we are.[English]We'll go on to item number four, which is the extension of certain temporary COVID-19 measures to the fiscal year 2021-22. We'll go to Monsieur Paquette, chief financial officer.Monsieur Paquette.MichelPatriceDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1130)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.[English]This presentation follows up on the analysis with respect to temporary measures in effect due to COVID-19 that was presented to the board last December. At that meeting, the House administration advised the board that we would continue to monitor the use of those various policies, the expenses that members were incurring and how they were to evolve. We would then return here to the board for any recommendations, if any were needed.I must note that these temporary measures are all set to expire on March 31, 2021.[Translation]We have observed that the use of these temporary measures has continued since the last analysis I presented to you in December. Despite the pandemic, members of Parliament continue to provide services to their fellow citizens. As a result of our consultations, we understand the need to maintain these measures for an extended period of time.[English] The House administration recommends that the board, as part of the measures taken to address and mitigate the COVID-19 pandemic, approve extending the temporary measures through March 31, 2022. These temporary measures include the purchase of consumable items to ensure that COVID-19 preventive measures are in place in constituency offices, and an increase to the advertising limit to communicate with constituents.Mr. Speaker, this concludes my presentation. I'm open to any questions the members may have.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Do we have any questions or comments?Mr. Julian and then Mr. Richards.DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1130)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I'd like to thank Mr. Paquette and the House administration.I certainly support the extension of these measures. In our case, in downtown New Westminster where my constituency office is, those measures have allowed us to put up plexiglass panels to protect our employees. We're in a very high-traffic area in the downtown area. Even though our office is largely functioning virtually, when constituents do need to come in, my staff are protected.I think that these measures have been sensible, and they've been effective, allowing members of Parliament to make the important adjustments that come with this pandemic.The new variants of COVID-19 are worrisome, as we all know, and many people are predicting a third wave coming this spring. It makes sense, then, I believe, for us to extend the measures so that members of Parliament and their employees can be protected and can continue to serve their constituents in a way that protects everybody.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Very good.Mr. Richards.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]I agree. There's been some usage or take-up of these measures. I would certainly agree with extending them. I guess where I would have an issue is this. We're talking about an extension to March 31, 2022, and we're hearing from the government that by the end of September we will have all Canadians vaccinated who want to be vaccinated. One would assume, then, that at that point we'd be able to make some kind of a shift in terms of Parliament's moving back towards more normal sitting scenarios, or certainly something closer to that. Obviously, some of these measures, then, would no longer be needed as well. If the government does fail to meet that target, we can always look at extending it beyond September—that is, if the government isn't able to live up to the promise it's made. If it does, then we should be able to see some change in these things in September. Perhaps what we should do right now is to set the renewal date as September, and we can always look at it again, if needed, in September.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]I now give the floor to Mrs. DeBellefeuille. Mr. Deltell and Mr. LeBlanc will follow.You have the floor, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1130)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I do not agree with what my Conservative colleague just said. In fact, I rather agree with the proposal before us that it be extended until March 31, 2022, that is, the end of the fiscal year.It is important for members to be in a position, as of April 1, to set their budget, to include the amounts in their budget planning. I think it makes sense to allow the extension until March 31, 2022. I would find it strange if we told members to be careful with their budget because the measures are in effect until September 30. Some of the measures relate to advertising costs and may be part of community support planning. As we know, the pandemic does not affect all provinces the same way.I think the proposal to extend is logical in light of what we have experienced this year. According to the statistics and the results, the cost won't be higher for the House Administration if we save on certain budget items to be able to finance these measures.Personally, this makes sense to me and is respectful of the members who want to plan their budget for next year. I think it makes sense that decisions of a parliamentary nature should be in effect at the end of September.I second Mr. Julian, who also agrees with the proposal. In addition, I encourage the members of the Board of Internal Economy to join us.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]We will now go to Mr. Deltell, followed by Mr. LeBlanc and Mrs. Petitpas Taylor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I think it's also important to understand that—and we've all done this in our ridings—most of the significant spending on internal infrastructure has already been committed, which is normal, by the way. All of us may have some adjustments to make, but a lot of the spending has been done. I think being able to adjust that for September is very consistent, as well, with what we decide in the House. Our measures are in place until September because we operate on a semi-annual basis. Normally, we adjust our spending very well when we see that the need is still there.I believe that we do not deprive ourselves of anything. It's worth considering this option, given that we've already spent a significant part of our budgets in this regard and that we're also consistent with our work in the House six months at a time. If, by any chance, we find in September that people who have not been vaccinated want to be vaccinated and the third wave of the virus hits hard—no one is safe—we can reverse the decision and extend these measures without any difficulty.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Mr. LeBlanc, you have the floor.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc (President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada): (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I also agree with Mrs. DeBellefeuille and Mr. Julian.[English] I accept Mr. Paquette's recommendation. I get Blake's comments if the government fails to vaccinate people by the end of September, etc. I get all of that. That should maybe be reserved for question period.I think we have to be careful. The idea that certain public health requirements, as Mr. Julian said, to protect the staff who work for us or protect constituents who may visit constituency offices.... Some of those decisions, as advised by public health officers, may be separate and apart from the vaccination schedule. I wouldn't suggest that this committee has views on appropriate public health measures. I would suggest that those decisions that MPs need to make to protect the people who work with us and constituents who visit us would coherently be subsumed in a financial year. That's why I accept the recommendation put forward by Monsieur Paquette and endorsed by Mr. Julian and Madame DeBellefeuille.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]We will now give the floor to Mrs. Petitpas Taylor and then to Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Mrs. Petitpas Taylor, you have the floor.DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88364GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Ginette-PetitpasTaylorMoncton—Riverview—DieppeLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/PetitpasTaylorGinette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Deputy Government Whip): (1135)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I will be very brief.I'm just wondering if we know how many offices have required a deep cleaning as a result of COVID exposure within their offices. In asking that question, I'm also wondering if we have a workplace health and safety protocol in place in the event of workplace COVID exposure.Constituency officesCOVID-19Government expendituresPandemicWorkplace health and safetyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]On the first question, we'll go to Monsieur Paquette.GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1140)[English]I'll transfer that to our CHRO. She's the one responsible for the health and safety programs.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Paquette.[English]Yes, we do have that information. I don't have it at hand right now, but I absolutely will follow up and make sure that the members of the board get the information requested.Constituency officesCOVID-19Government expendituresPandemicWorkplace health and safetyDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]I believe Monsieur Patrice has an answer for part of that question. MichelleLaframboiseMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1140)[English]Up to this time there have been no expenditures submitted for the deep cleaning of an office.For the protocol, we'll provide that information to the board.Constituency officesCOVID-19Government expendituresPandemicWorkplace health and safetyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.MichelPatriceClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.We all know that, traditionally, we try to get along with each other. So, if the position of our Conservative colleagues does not change, given my little training as a mediator, I propose a compromise. The document before us contains seven recommendations. What I understand from what my colleagues said is that recommendations 1, 2 and 3 seem to be of particular concern to them, being directly related to contamination, decontamination and equipment purchase. In contrast, recommendations 4, 5, 6 and 7 are more related to the efforts of members in their ridings to support organizations that provide essential services, advertize their work, and promote their services. One recommendation even allows members to solicit donations for food banks or United Way agencies.Here is my counter-proposal. If we could agree at least on recommendations 4, 5, 6 and 7, which I think are appropriate for the whole of next year, we could maintain them. If you are concerned about recommendations 1, 2 and 3, perhaps we could look at them together and see if we can remove them from the proposal. That way, together we could come to a compromise and accept some of the recommendations we have before us.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]All right, thank you.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English] That seems reasonable, frankly. My concern was that we're talking about putting in place measures related to COVID, but if we expect the entire population to be vaccinated by September, those measures would no longer be needed.I think what we're talking about here, Claude, is some of the advertising and things like that. That was where your concerns were, that people be able to plan ahead for things like that. I think that's actually a sensible compromise and one that would satisfy me that we're not putting measures in place that will no longer be needed beyond September.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]I believe Mr. Julian has a comment as well.Mr. Julian.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I would like to thank Mrs. DeBellefeuille for proposing this compromise.Health specialists are saying very clearly that we probably won't be out of the woods for another year. So I don't think that vaccination dates should be part of our decisions today.We should decide to put all possible measures in place to protect the public and our employees and to continue our work as parliamentarians. It is for this reason that I fully support the recommendations of Mr. Paquette and the House Administration. However, as Mrs. DeBellefeuille said, I understand that we are an entity that advocates unanimity and consensus, so I am prepared to support her proposal.I am not ready to say that we will be out of the woods in September. I hope so, but I don't think so. If we rely on projections, especially if we take into account the new variants of the virus, we may unfortunately have to wait at least a year before we can say that we are out of this pandemic.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1145)[Translation]Mr. Speaker, allow me to summarize my proposal. I propose that items 1, 2 and 3 be extended to September 30 and that items 4, 5, 6 and 7 be extended to March 31, 2022. The Board of Internal Economy could reconvene around August to determine whether items 1, 2 and 3 should be extended beyond September 30.It is not because I am proposing this compromise that I feel that it is not necessary, but given the way we operate, I think it is an acceptable compromise, as long as we give ourselves the means to re-evaluate recommendations 1, 2 and 3 around the month of August or before the start of the fall session in September.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]Is everyone in agreement?Voices: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: Therefore, items 1, 2 and 3 will end on September 30, subject to revision, and the following items will remain in effect for the remainder of the fiscal year, until March 31, 2022.We will now move on to the fifth item on the agenda.[English] On the financial report for the third quarter of 2020-21, again we have Monsieur Paquette making the presentation.Monsieur Paquette.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I am going to present the quarterly financial report for the third quarter of 2020-2021.Quarterly financial reports compare year-to-date financial information for the current fiscal year to the same quarter the previous year. As with the first quarter and second quarter reports presented earlier this year, we are once again comparing two atypical years.This year, the pandemic is affecting our spending trends, while the previous year was marked by a general election. As a result, our comparisons will be influenced by the atypical spending patterns that you may have already noted in our reports.Let us now turn to the report. As of December 31, the approved authorities for fiscal year 2020-2021 were $539 million. There have been no changes to our approved authorities since my second quarterly report to you in December.Expenses to December 31 totalled $344.2 million, a decrease of $6.2 million, or 1.8%, from the previous year.[English] The most significant decreases in expenditures relate to the continuing decrease in travel as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Decreases have also been seen in the areas of training and hospitality across the whole organization, as well as the reduction of temporary help services for members and House officers—also all as a result of COVID-19.The temporary closure of some of the food services facilities and the printing facilities earlier in the year has led to reduced costs for materials and supplies, which have been partially offset by the purchase of consumable items such as face masks and hand sanitizers that are used across the House of Commons.Expenditures for computers, office equipment, furniture and fixtures have also decreased, primarily due to changes in the timing of some of our life-cycle activities. This decrease was partially offset by costs incurred for purchases to support virtual House proceedings and committees, and costs incurred for equipment that enabled House administration employees to work remotely during this COVID pandemic. On the other hand, expenditures for salaries and benefits have increased, mainly due to additional spending on members' employee salaries and the cost of living increases for members and House administration staff. These increases have been partially offset by the reduction in the number of employees for members and House officers, delays in some of the staffing and a reduction in part-time costs and overtime as a result of the pandemic. Finally, the report does provide a comparison of the utilization of our authorities, which shows a decrease of 3.4%, which is not unexpected given the current situation. Also, given this current situation surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic, we are closely monitoring and considering any potential savings, as well as any financial impact that may have on our funding decisions due to this truly exceptional year.Mr. Speaker, that concludes my presentation.(1150)[Translation]I am ready to answer questions from members of the committee.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Third Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[English]Do we have any questions or comments?[Translation]If everyone agrees, we will take a two-minute break and then we will continue in camera.[Proceedings continue in camera]DanielPaquette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0132nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, January 28, 2021Le jeudi 28 janvier 2021Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTJanuary 28, 2021CommitteeNUMBER 013NUMBER 013NUMÉRO 013013280120212021/01/28 11:10:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]Let us start the meeting.The first item on the agenda is to adopt the minutes of the previous meeting. Are there any comments about the minutes? Shall we adopt the minutes?Some hon. members: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: We now move to business arising from the previous meeting.Mrs. DeBellefeuille, did you want to make a comment? You have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc québécois): (1110)[Translation]Great.Is the raise hand button working? Can you see it?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]We now move to business arising from the previous meeting.Mrs. DeBellefeuille, did you want to make a comment? You have the floor.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Yes, I can see your hand is raised.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Okay.I can hear an echo of my voice. I can hear myself speaking. I don't know whether it is supposed to be like that.I hear myself with a delay, like an echo. I am probably hearing the sound in the meeting room.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Yes, we're having that issue today, but I believe it has been resolved here.It happens to me a lot. When it does, I remove my headset and hold it in my hand to speak into the microphone. Then I put my headset back on. It is a bit of a chore, but until the issue is resolved, that is what we can do.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Is that better now?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Yes.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]No, it's not working.So I will try to concentrate.Mr. Chair, I would like to ask you a few questions to follow up on business arising from the previous meeting.At the last Board of Internal Economy meeting in December, we closed the meeting with a recommendation that [Technical difficulty].AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Excuse me, Mrs. DeBellefeuille, but we are having trouble hearing you. I don't know what is wrong.Am I the only one hearing the sound cut in and out? The interpreters appear to be hearing that too. So we have a problem.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Would you like me to try removing the headset, Mr. Chair?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]Apparently, the problem is on Parliament's end. The problem is over here.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Okay.Should I go on?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]I believe we will have to suspend the meeting. I don't know what else to do until the issue is resolved.Could you continue speaking, please?ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Okay.I wanted to ask you something about Mr. Janse's appearance. The Board of Internal Economy authorized the letter to be sent to the Liaison Committee, that is, to Ms. Sgro, who was then to forward the letter to all chairs of [Technical difficulty].AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]It's very hard to understand what you are saying. We will therefore suspend the meeting for a few minutes.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]I will try without the headset, Mr. Chair.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]I don't think the problem is on your end. It is here in the room.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1110)[Translation]Is that better, Mr. Chair?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]It is still the same.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1110)[Translation]It is not on your end, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[Translation]We will suspend the meeting temporarily. I don't know how long it will be, but please wait. We will see what happens.We will leave it in the hands of the technicians.(1110)(1120)StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]We will pick up where we left off.We dealt with the first item on the agenda. We were on the second item, business arising from the previous meeting.We will proceed with Mrs. DeBellefeuille.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I can still hear the echo of myself, but I hope the sound is clear on your end.Mr. Chair, I was referring to the letter that the clerk assistant, Mr. Janse, was authorized to send in your name on behalf of the Board of Internal Economy to the chair of the Liaison Committee, Ms. Sgro. The purpose of the letter was to communicate certain recommendations and observations with respect to interpretation.The observations were that interpretation into French is hard to do at the moment because of issues with the technology. From the time committees began to meet until the end of September, 86% of witnesses testified in English. That put pressure on the technology to make high-quality interpretation available to francophone members.Ms. Sgro forwarded the letter to all committee chairs on December 8. How many committee chairs sent the letter to the other members of their committee?Was the letter well received, Mr. Janse?Did the chair of the Liaison Committee feel committed to a mission of awareness and promotion with the other committee chairs? Did she impress upon them just how significant the proposals were to ensuring quality interpretation for francophone members?FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Mr. Janse, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for your question, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.Ms. Sgro's office sent the letter to the chairs of all other standing committees. Most chairs forwarded it to all members of their committee. A few did not, but we are following up with them to urge them to send the letter to the other members.Because the letter went out in mid-December, not many committee meetings were left before the House adjourned for the holidays. Committees are starting to sit again this week. So we are hoping to obtain some feedback to find out whether things are better now than they were before the holidays.We are planning to hold a Liaison Committee meeting in the coming weeks. All committee chairs, including Ms. Sgro, will be able to discuss it.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1125)[Translation]Perfect.EricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Do you have a question, Mr. Julian?ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My question is on the same subject.If the letter has not been forwarded to all committee members, it's important that it be sent to them right away. We must ensure that Parliament works well in both official languages and that high-quality interpretation services are available to everyone. I am a little concerned to find that some committees have not yet discussed it.It is really important that the letter besent to all members so that steps can be taken to ensure that the two official languages are on equal footing during virtual sittings of the House and the committees.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Mr. Janse, do you have anything to add?PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1125)[Translation]We will urge committee chairs who have not forwarded the letter to do so in the coming days. We hope that all members sitting on committees will have received the letter within the next few days.FrenchVirtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Are there any other comments or questions?[English] We’ll go on to number 3, the printing and mailing services program enhancement proposals, and we’ll turn it over to Ms. Rebekah Kletke, chief operations officer. Ms. Kletke.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryEricJanseRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke (Chief Operations Officer, House of Commons): (1130)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.Members of the board, as you know, the current operating environment resulting from the pandemic has required the House administration to adapt and find solutions to ensure that members of Parliament and their teams are able to continue to perform their parliamentary functions. One such example has been in the area of printing and mailing services.[Translation]On April 17, 2020, the Board approved that, from April 17 to July 30, 2020, members be authorized to provide their constituents with information on COVID-19 using external printing services, with costs to be charged to the central House administration budget.[English]A report distributed to board members on December 14, 2020, provided an assessment of the way access to external suppliers worked this past spring. This report showed that costs for the initiative were higher compared to in-house equivalents, that the level of service varied across Canada and that the external production time frames were the same or longer than in-house production time frames.I am here today with a submission seeking direction from the board on initiatives to enhance and improve the printing and mailing services available to members of Parliament. These areas for improvement are aligned with the discussion held at the previous board meeting and the feedback we have received during this challenging period. With these objectives in mind, the House administration recommends that we proceed to examine the following aspects as prioritized by the Board of Internal Economy, with a view to identifying potential changes to our printing and mailing services. We would look at internal processes and tools to determine the measures needed to decrease the current average internal production timeline of 12 days. We would look at the possibility of setting up framework agreements with printing facilities across Canada in consultation with Canada Post so that internal production time frames can be supplemented and enhanced with external search capacity during peak periods, and we would also look at access to broader external services through existing mechanisms, building on the lessons learned from the spring of 2020.[Translation]Our goal is to gain approval in the spring for a comprehensive analysis, with proposals aligned with the priorities set by the Board.I would be happy to answer any questions you may have and take note of any improvements you suggest.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Very good. We'll continue.I believe Mr. Richards has a question or a comment.RebekahKletkeBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1130)[English]I suppose it's probably more of a comment.I'm hearing that you're going to come back with a proposal, and that's great. I think that's wonderful. I have had a number of caucus members come forward to me with issues that they've had. I guess one thing I want to make clear for when proposals are being developed is that, although there have been some issues that have developed in terms of the length of time it's taking to get things printed, I don't know that it should be the singular focus of the efforts to make improvements.The focus that I think I've heard more from members who have spoken to me has been more about lack of certainty in terms of the production times. I understand that there are fluctuating levels, so addressing that is important. I like the suggestion you're making about having some ability to have arrangements with outside suppliers where there are higher periods of time.... Obviously just before Christmas would be one of those examples. I think that's a great idea.However, the other issues that arise, in the same vein, are more the inconsistency. Sometimes there have been issues where people are told to get something out for a certain date. You have to have it in.... I'll choose some dates out of the hat. Let's say they're told that in order to have it out by mid-December, it has to be in by the end of October. The member is intending to have it go out mid-December, but then things are ahead of schedule and it goes out mid-November and it's not an appropriate message to be going out in the middle of November, for example.It's working with members to ensure that the service is provided as stated. That might mean needing to ensure that the production timeline is respected and hasn't gone over, because maybe if it goes over, now the member is sending something that's no longer appropriate to send. In other cases, it might be putting it out at an inappropriate time, too soon, because production was ahead of schedule. It's really working with the member to ensure they're given a date for when their piece would go out, when it goes to production, and that date is respected and adhered to, whether that means rushing the process or whether that means, in some cases, storing it for a few weeks because it's been produced ahead of schedule. It's really about meeting those service schedules.I'll give you one other similar example, and I'm talking about my own example. I've had times where we have requested certain folds on a product—I've gone so far as to ask that I see the folds as part of the proof—and then they still go out with a different fold.Those are service standards that aren't related to length of printing, but it's an expectation by a client, and the member of Parliament, I would believe, should be seen as the client. If they're asking for a certain fold on a product, or they're asking for a certain date that they want the product to go out, we should seek to do that. It's making that clear. Those are some of the issues that I've had raised in my caucus. I like some of the suggestions you're making, but to make it clear, it's looking at ways to improve those service standards and have more of a customer service focus model that is being sought.I appreciate your taking this back and looking at ways that we can make improvements.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1135)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Richards, for your comments.Certainly the three items that we brought today require some potential investment.Further to your comments regarding the planning process, we started following our holiday card and peak period this past December, looking at making some changes to our planning process to get exactly at some of the issues you raised today. We're already working on that. They are internal process changes. The team has some really great ideas in that respect, and to bring that flexibility around planning to the table and more clarity around when products will be going out.We'll certainly take back your other comments, and we'll work internally to meet what you're asking for.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English] Thank you. That's appreciated.RebekahKletkeAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]We'll go to Mr. Julian. [Translation]He will be followed by Mrs. DeBellefeuille.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1135)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.There are some laudable suggestions in the document. My own experience, anecdotally, with the external suppliers, the local suppliers, was that what made the difference, and why we were able to get things out more quickly—during a pandemic, of course, it's vital to get information in the hands of my constituents—was the mailing delay that came from Ottawa. We have very talented staff in Ottawa, they do a terrific job in the printing centre, but often, it's a two-week delay getting it from Ottawa to New Westminster—Burnaby. For the external suppliers, in our case, even though it's correct to point out that they may not be as efficient and may not understand the Canada Post preparation as well as staff in Ottawa, the reality is that, once it's actually dropped at the post office, it's a one- or two-day delay, as opposed to a one- or two-week delay. That needs to be taken into consideration. We have a vast geography, and the mailing times add complexity to mailings that are particularly tied to specific events. It makes a difference to be able to use local suppliers for certain types of mailings.I agree with enhancing the printing team in Ottawa. There's absolutely no doubt that would mean that things could be produced more quickly for our constituents, but I also believe local suppliers definitely have a place. In the case of a British Columbia MP, it means that the overall length of time is quicker, even if it takes twice as long to produce the printing, because it takes 10% of the time to actually do the mailing and get it into the riding. I wanted to give you that feedback, because that needs to be taken into consideration as well when we're looking at the overall proposal that comes to the BOIE.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1140)[English]Thank you, Mr. Julian.We certainly appreciate your comments and will take that into consideration. We're also looking at adjusting our planning practices, as I mentioned following Mr. Richards' comments, so that instead of first in, first out, we would plan according to the location of the constituency, so that those that might be farther from Ottawa would get done sooner rather than later in our planning process, to hopefully shorten the time frame.We'll certainly take that into account. Thank you for your comments.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]We will continue with Mrs. DeBellefeuille.RebekahKletkeClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1140)[Translation]Good morning, Ms. Kletke.First, I would like to acknowledge the fact that, within your department, you directed two of your managers to consult the whips of all caucuses on what could be improved and therefore to gather information from all recognized parties in the House.I want to thank you for that because it shows me that you are committed to improving your department and better serving members in the House of Commons. I also want to thank you for the fact that I felt I was heard. I know that the two managers I met with last week accepted and even appreciated some of the recommendations, the improvements, that I wanted to see. I am therefore very grateful to you for that good practice that other departments will hopefully choose to adopt.I fully agree with your recommendation. I don't know if it is the fact that we are close to Ottawa, but we noticed that the 12-day service standard was often exceeded. The average was about nine days. We are quite satisfied with the timeframes. Of course, we would like to bring them down from 12 to nine or even between five and nine, as you suggest. In the age of social media, we often want to communicate quickly with our constituents about situations or activities, or even about information related to the pandemic. Everything moves so quickly these days. I feel that, while maintaining its quality, its thoroughness and its professionalism, our printing service must do the best it can to reduce its turnaround time throughout the process, from submission to mockups, production and mailing to the public.I want to thank you because I'm sure we will be pleased with your proposals and those that you will make in the spring, since you have understood how important it is for members to send out quality information [Technical difficulty] and that meets the need for more urgent communications.I also noticed that you paid special attention to publications of 5,000 copies or less, which are perhaps not being used optimally. Members may benefit from becoming more familiar with this type of publication since it is a much shorter process. If you opened it up to local businesses, we might be able to use this parliamentary tool more often for more urgent publications. It's a tool that may be underused, at least by my caucus.So I thank you once again, and I agree with the recommendation you have submitted to us today.Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Are there any other comments?[English] Are we okay to go ahead with the recommendation presented in the report?Some hon. members: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: We're going to suspend temporarily to go in camera. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes. I want everybody to stand by if you don't mind, as we make sure everything goes in camera. [Proceedings continue in camera] Constituency officesHouseholdersPrinting and printing industryClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0122nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, December 3, 2020Le jeudi 3 décembre 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTDecember 3, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 012NUMBER 012NUMÉRO 012012031220202020/12/03 10:35:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1035)[English]This is meeting number 12 of the Board of Internal Economy in this session. It will be televised and available by video conference. Is there anything arising from the minutes of the previous meeting? Are we okay with those?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Is there any business arising from previous meetings?Mr. Richards.BlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1035)[English]I wanted to touch base on one item where a follow-up was required. We had sent a letter and there was a deadline of December 18 for a response. Would we be looking at scheduling a meeting sometime shortly after that, or early in the new year, to discuss that item, based on any response we receive?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1035)[English]The letter has been sent. I don't believe we have received a response yet.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1035)[English]I understand, but we gave a deadline of December 18. Are we planning to schedule a meeting shortly after that to discuss our response?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1035)[English]We'll have to wait until a response comes back. The letter has gone out, and we'll see what happens from there, if that's fair. BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1035)[English] I was just trying to get a sense as to what we thought.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1035)[English]The letter did go out within a couple of days of when we met last. It's all taken care of.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1035)[English]All I'm getting at is that it leaves a long time after the response would be received. I wouldn't want to leave that hanging over anyone for a long period of time. I know we ordinarily wouldn't meet for some time after that. I just wondered if we were giving some consideration to meeting sooner, so that it wouldn't be left hanging.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1035)[English]I think that's fair. If it's okay with everyone, we'll wait until the response comes back, and then we'll deal with it when we have the facts in front of us. Is that fair?There's consensus around the room. Perfect. Our first presentation this morning concerns the LTVP working group recommendations. The presenter is Mr. Bruce Stanton, co-chair of the Joint Interparliamentary Council and Deputy Speaker par excellence.Before Mr. Stanton, Ms. DeBellefeuille, please go ahead. BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1035)[Translation] If I may, Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank Mr. Janse for having provided some details about the questions I had asked him.I had asked how many witnesses gave evidence in French in parliamentary committees. What I'm trying to do is document the technical problems that sometimes come from failing to wear a headset. These problems mainly occur when unilingual francophone MPs are speaking.At the last meeting, I said that I thought 90% of francophone witnesses gave their evidence in English. I was wrong by 4%. It would seem that 86% of francophone witnesses who appear before parliamentary committees do so in English. We've been saying from the outset that interpretation and technical problems have been having more of an impact on interventions by francophone MPs. And now we have facts and documentation to support our claim.Mr. Chair, there have been many recommendations and suggestions. For example, it was suggested that the chair of the Liaison Committee should require an internal economy motion for the parliamentary committees asking each committee to adopt an internal economy motion to have witnesses do some technical tests before giving evidence in order to ensure that sound connectivity and quality are satisfactory.Would House Administration and the clerk move this suggestion forward or should we take a position on it? I'd like some specifics on this point.Is it up to us to do the follow-up or will it be delegated to the Liaison Committee? Are the clerks going to follow through on these suggestions made in the letter sent by the deputy clerk to the Committees and Legislative Services Branch?Once again, I'd like to thank the team of clerks for having documented the problem and passed the information on to us. It'll be very useful to us in our future work.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1040)[Translation]I know that this is very important for us all. Could Mr. Janse answer the question. He could perhaps describe what's been done so far.Mr. Janse, you have the floor.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1040)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mrs. DeBellefeuille, for your question.If the Bureau of Internal Economy were in agreement, I thought I might send the letter I gave you to Ms. Sgro, the chair of the Liaison Committee. She could then forward it to the chairs of the 24 committees, and each in turn could discuss the matter and decide whether they want to adopt an internal economy motion. Of course, the MPs on each committee could propose such a motion.As I mentioned in the letter, witnesses are often called at the last minute, and it's sometimes not possible to send them a headset before they appear. We nevertheless make every effort to do so.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1040)[Translation]What I understood was that technical tests would be a good idea, wherever possible, right before witnesses appear. One example of an annoying technical problem was during an appearance by the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. The problem was fixed afterwards. Right before someone is to give evidence, it would be useful to do some tests and remind the witness to wear a headset. If the witness doesn't have a headset, possible options could be suggested, or another witness could go first. The goal is to emphasize the importance of how to set things up to make interpretation possible.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1040)[Translation]That would definitely facilitate things in various ways.Our current procedure is to contact witnesses by email to send them the information. We strongly suggest that they connect 15 to 30 minutes before their appearance so that we can conduct some tests.My impression is that many people don't read all their emails and if the witnesses don't read ours and connect only a few minutes before their appearance, there could be problems.In our discussions with the committees branch, it was suggested that we telephone some witnesses, particularly if this is their first appearance, to underscore the importance of connecting ahead of time so that we can do various tests.We hope that this might improve the situation.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1040)[Translation]Thank you very much.EricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1040)[Translation]The next speakers are Mr. Julian and Mr. Deltell.Over to you, Mr. Julian.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1040)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mr. Janse.This information is very useful and very important to us, given our current concerns about the decline of French in Canada. Over the past few weeks, we've initiated some parliamentary debates on this topic and have adopted several motions.I was interested to learn that over one-third of witnesses can speak French. The problem is not so much the number of francophone and francophile witnesses, but rather the infrastructure shortcomings.At meetings of the Standing Committee on Finance, I saw interpretation problems several times, as a result of which people who were speaking French felt obliged to switch to English.I believe the figures would back me up on this. People don't feel comfortable speaking French if the equipment is unsatisfactory and the interpreters can't do their work. As a result, they tend to switch to English, which is something that really should be avoided. The recommendations being made here should be forwarded to all the committees. Furthermore, it's important to firmly support the idea that the technology needs to be perfect so that witnesses can speak French in the knowledge that they'll be able to count on the excellent House interpretation services.These statistics are very important, and I'd like to thank you for passing this information on to us. I think everyone around this table would be in favour of immediately and forcefully implementing the recommendations that were made.For me, it would be a dream come true.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1045)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Deltell, you now have the floor.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1045)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I fully agree with what my two predecessors have said. I'd like to add something, though. Many of my caucus colleagues have mentioned this problem, and I'm sure that it applies to all the political parties. Every time a technical problem of this kind occurs, it results in lost time in terms of evidence and our parliamentary work. Every now and then, this might be considered acceptable, but unfortunately, a lot of time is being lost, with interruptions of up to 10 or 20 minutes, because of technical problems. I'll admit, however, that it's occurring less often than before.I'm in favour of all the observations that have been made. I'm also in favour of the recommendations, and welcome the initiative suggesting that people be called before they give evidence. I think the House should adopt this approach systematically. Emails are all very well, but we get up to 50 of them per hour and it's easy to miss one. People may not be watching their inbox closely. A return to the good old days might be required, by which I mean calling people directly on the telephone and checking and double-checking the information.I'd like to thank you, Mr. Chair, for having reminded people once more yesterday, and this week in the House on several occasions, that it was absolutely essential for us to wear the headset supplied by the House of Commons.I have a final observation, which is that like all of us here in the House, many of our colleagues attend meetings from home, from their riding office or from their parliamentary office. We might consider providing parliamentarians with more than one headset.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1045)[English] We will go now to Mr. Richards.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1045)[English]On this topic, it's one thing with external witnesses we're asking to appear. I think some of the suggestions that have been made are good ones. We've seen this occur with ministers who are being asked to come to committee to be held accountable before the committee. I really think that in these cases.... This is not something that is surprising or unexpected for ministers. They need to have headsets and they need to ensure that they have a proper connection. I know it isn't exactly directly related to the committees, but in committee of the whole we had a minister who hadn't prepared to have a proper Internet connection.I really believe that in these kinds of cases, the expectation should be that the minister will make up the time with the committee. If they've wasted 20 minutes of committee time because they didn't have the proper headset or something of that nature, the expectation should be that they make up the time so that the committee has those opportunities. We're seeing that those opportunities are being lost, and ensuring that ministers are accountable is a very important part of our democracy.I think it's different from the situation with a regular witness. Sometimes a witness has been asked, as you say, on short notice and maybe isn't aware of the requirements with respect to our committees, but ministers certainly are. I really think that, if we're going to put something out, we should include in it as well that ministers will be expected to make up time if they do not come prepared with the proper equipment and connection.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1050)[English]That's very good. We'll take that under advisement.Are there any more comments?[Translation]We're now going to study the recommendation made by the working group on the Long Term Vision and Plan, or the LTVP.We have with us today Mr. Bruce Stanton, the chair of the working group on the LTVP and the Centre Block rehabilitation.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton (Chair, Working Group on the LTVP and the Centre Block Rehabilitation): (1050)[English]Good morning.Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm delighted to be here today.I'm joined by Susan Kulba, who is the DG and chief executive architect on the House administration side, as well as Rob Wright, assistant deputy minister with PSPC for the science and parliamentary infrastructure branch.[Translation]I'm here today as the chair of the LTVP working group, to update the board on our work since our last meeting, and will be seeking your support for the design direction regarding four areas: the lobbies, the galleries, the west light court, the west foyer light well, and a potential increase in space in the centre light court.I'll also update you on two subjects regarding the independent design review panel and the issue of outreach to parliamentarians. I'll comment briefly on those last two items first.[English] On October 28, we discussed a plan for the engagement with our working group and the independent design review panel, IDRP, regarding the entrance to the Parliament welcome centre. The IDRP is an eminent group of Canadian architects with extensive experience on projects of this nature. The working group had an opportunity to meet with them by Zoom on November 6, and we found their expert advice to be informative, helpful and consistent with the working group's opinion on things like the entrance design and retention of the front lawn and the Vaux wall. We conveyed the importance of the House of Commons as a complex functioning workplace for parliamentarians, which also greets hundreds of visitors and guests daily and serves as one of Canada's most iconic heritage buildings. We think the panel benefited from their meeting with us, and it will contribute to the panel's discussions and advice to PSPC in the time ahead. (1055)[Translation]Secondly, at our last meeting of November 27, we reviewed several means by which parliamentarians could become more involved and informed on the pace of work in Centre Block and even some possible areas where the working group could invite direct input, before interior formats and designs are finalized.We anticipate that parliamentarians could be informed using various communications tools— video conferences, in-person meetings when they become possible again, website presence and video, as well as through the Speaker's regular newsletters. We believe that a project of this importance, not only to this cohort of parliamentarians, but to future ones, would benefit from direct input from the people who are at the centre of this large, complex workplace and centrepiece of Canada's system of government.Turning to the four design recommendations, I would like to now discuss the lobbies, galleries and ideas for the existing light courts.As you all know, the government and opposition lobbies are an important space for parliamentarians. It's where we conduct our parliamentary work, meet with colleagues, and where members will usually spend at least one ten-hour sitting day per week, and occasionally much longer. It's also the gathering place for votes and question period every day, all the while being close to our whip's and House leader's team and available at a moment's notice for duty in the House.We've seen that this space was often overcrowded, and that's before the expected growth in MP numbers over the coming five decades, when these important spaces will be under even greater pressure. So, in finding ways to address the space pressure on the lobbies, the working group was presented with, and agrees with, a plan to expand the lobbies across two floors and parts of an adjacent courtyard.This page shows a proposed plan for both floors. The second floor exists now. More space will be added on the ground floor.The plan will keep the lobbies at the chamber level, but expanded vertically, to the ground floor, by adding a space at least as large as the current 2nd floor lobbies, with independent stair and elevator access for the level below.The plan also includes expanded accessible washroom space. The image shows, in the centre of the plan to the left on the ground floor, that the washrooms are between the two lobbies and are exclusively for the use of parliamentarians and ground floor lobby staff.In relation to the lobbies, we recommend for the board's consideration a design for both the government and opposition lobbies that includes additional support space located on the ground floor and adjacent courtyard, with dedicated vertical circulation for both.[English] Going to the galleries, on our meeting of October 28, the House presented us with a proposed design approach for the Centre Block galleries for our review and questions. You'll see the designs. On the left are the existing galleries on the third floor, and on the right is the proposal. We recognize that the Centre Block galleries needed to be modified to become more accessible. The current physical design is well short of national building code standards for accessibility. In fact, prior to the closure of the building there was minimal accessibility. Meeting code and accessibility standards will result in a reduction of seating capacity in the galleries from 553 seats to 296. The working group had a really good discussion regarding the average public attendance in the galleries over the periods of time that we experienced them, the extra demand during school visits and special addresses, and comparisons with comparable parliaments and legislative assemblies.We asked the administration to investigate the possibility of using some flexible space in those galleries so that the design of the seating would permit a scaling-up, if you will, under those special circumstances, while assuring that it meets national building code standards. In relation to the galleries, we agreed to recommend that the board endorse the proposal of a design that complies with national building code requirements for accessibility, recognizing that there will be a significant reduction of available seating and that the architects be instructed to consider flexible solutions to accommodate more visitors.That's the second item. Now we'll move on to the west light court and the west foyer light-well.At our November 27 meeting we agreed on a conceptual design approach and strategy for the west light court. That's what you see in front of you now. That is an image of the west light court looking south. You would see the outer wall of the House of Commons on your right, with the stained glass windows, and then the lower levels as that area or space is closed in. The primary purpose of the light courts is to bring natural light and ventilation to interior spaces not located on an exterior facade. This is an important part of the architectural and heritage character of Centre Block. We were informed that closing in the light courts at the roof level will provide significant improvements on energy performance for the building. The proposed design would convert the larger west light court into an open, light-filled space that would provide public access to the galleries, and where visitors to the chamber could circulate between level B1—that's the main level of the Parliament welcome centre—and levels two and three in Centre Block.(1100) It would greatly improve the circulation of the public within Centre Block, but importantly, it keeps the original architecture of Centre Block intact. It also allows the light court to continue to bring natural daylight to the chamber and other interior spaces.There's an additional light court on the west side. It's proposed that a new glass enclosure cover what's called the west light-well. This is right above the House of Commons foyer, essentially to provide natural light in the foyer area. This would effectively restore natural light to that area, intended as part of the Beaux-Arts planning for the foyer in the original structure. You will recall that there's a beautiful heritage glass laylight in the foyer ceiling. Currently, that whole light-well is closed in, due to damage and leaking, and so on, many decades ago. The idea would be to put a covering over it that would allow natural light to be restored to that light-well.Accordingly, the working group recommends that the board accept and adopt the proposed design approach for both the west light court, the larger one, and the west foyer light-well.The fourth and final item is the centre light court. This is a much bigger space. In the sectional view of Centre Block, I'd draw your attention to the purple area in the middle. The centre light court spans a much wider space, and in particular, the area above the roof of the Hall of Honour. If you were going down one of the interior hallways in Centre Block on the fourth or fifth floor and looked out towards the centre light court, you would see the roof over the Hall of Honour at the third level. The idea would be to add additional floors on top of that roof that would extend right to the top on floors four, five and six, and then, of course, join the north and south hallways in Centre Block on each of those floors. We think it's an excellent opportunity to infill the space in Centre Block to add much-needed space for parliamentarians. Up to 600 square metres of space would be added to the functioning interior space and it would be done in such a way as to not interfere or reduce in any way the natural light that comes into the building. Also, of course, as mentioned earlier, by capping over the light court and still allowing natural light, it will permit much better energy efficiency for the building. It should be noted as well that none of this infill would do anything to interrupt the features or construction of the Hall of Honour. It would all occur above that level. We therefore recommend to the board that the proposed infill approach be endorsed for the centre light court with the expectation that conservation principles will be respected, and of course, the working group will return to you at a later time to discuss some options for the use of that interior space.[Translation]Overall, I'd like to congratulate all the members of the working group and all the parties for their contribution to the work. I realize that it's important for MPs to be involved in the project.Finally, I would like to point out that the working group plans to hold another meeting early next year. I'd be happy over the coming months to come back with further updates as our work progresses.Thank you for your attention. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have or to provide more details on any of the points discussed.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1100)[Translation]Thank you Mr. Stanton.We'll now begin the question period.Over to you, Mr. Julian.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1105)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you, Mr. Stanton.I know there's a tremendous amount of work involved, in addition to all the other hats you wear, so our thanks to you and to the team of members of Parliament working with staff on this difficult issue.I have a number of questions, so I'll just lay them all out. I think that is easiest.First off, in terms of the centre light court infill, you haven't mentioned what the possible use would be for that shared space. It would be helpful to have a few more details on that proposal. On the infill courts, the west light court and the light-well, those seem to me to be no-brainers. Having had an office a number of times on that west court, I know the amount of wasted energy that is required to heat the four walls of the courtyard rather than just covering it over and using that space far more effectively. On the light-well, it never made sense to me why that was blocked in the first place. Again, there's an energy loss there, so bravo for looking at that. My concern about the galleries, quite frankly, is that we are cutting basically in half the participation of people who are able to come directly into the House of Commons and see parliamentarians at work. As someone who comes from the far west of Canada—5,000 kilometres away—I know that when any of my constituents make their way across Canada, they want to have the full experience of our democracy, and often, they want to be able to participate in the House of Commons. That hasn't been a problem generally, but if we're cutting the number of seats in half, I think that would be. I would raise concerns about that. Yes, absolutely we need to have the ability for people with reduced mobility and people with disabilities to be able to participate fully. There are designated spaces that could achieve that, but I'm very concerned about the cuts in the number of people who can actively participate. Could you perhaps explain a little bit more? You mentioned a scaling-up on occasion. That may happen more often than not. Particularly when we open the new building, we'll have people coming from across the country to see it. We certainly saw that with the Library of Parliament, so if you could go a little bit more into that, I would appreciate it. I gather that a dedicated internal vertical circulation is Ottawa-speak for stairs or an elevator, and I'm wondering in terms of the lobby what that actually means. It would seem to me that given the narrowness of the lobby space, what we are actually doing is having the lobbies one floor down, and how that access up and down is achieved is important. My final question is the most important one. What are the cost differentials in doing this? I assume from the west light court and the light-well that the energy savings will probably be far beyond the renovation costs. For some of the other things, it would be helpful for us to know at least in a ballpark way what the differential is between what would be a scaled-down version and what could be proposed. As we're going through a pandemic, most Canadians want to make sure every dollar spent is spent effectively. Nobody wants to see a deterioration of the Centre Block. Quite the contrary, they want to see a renovation, but they don't want to see frills. We have to be very conscious of that to make sure that every dollar spent is effective.Those are my questions. Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1105)[English]Mr. Julian, as usual, you have covered all the bases here, and I'll do my best to take them one at a time.On the centre light court additional infill of those three floors, we did look at very preliminary options as to what that would add. That is one of the things I think we would like to come back to the board with. Potentially, I don't mind saying, this would be one area where, in reference to, say, consultations with parliamentarians, it would be something that we could chat with them about as well.We're far from a decision as to what that interior format would need to look like, but as an example, one could anticipate that on floors four and five you could add up to, say, three different office suites on each floor, an additional six offices in there. Members should know that across the entirety of Centre Block the number of offices available will be reduced for a number of reasons, so it gives an ability to sort of catch up on some of that.The sixth floor we believe, because it will be at the top of the building, affords the possibility—and again, not finalized—of creating a space for parliamentarians to gather. Senators and members will know that there are opportunities for that. We will get back to you with that and, again, it could be the subject of some consultation.With regard to the galleries, Mr. Julian, your concerns were shared among the working group, real concerns with the overall reduction in the number of seats in the gallery. When we looked at actual attendance in the gallery outside of question period and special events, we all know as parliamentarians that, for the most part, the 553 seats were well above what was needed.You're right, at certain special times of the year and certainly for an address to a joint chamber, senators and parliamentarians, when you need a full gallery.... That is why the working group suggested this as an example. If you look at the east and west interior walls, you'll see in the galleries' design—opposition, government lobbies and the Speaker's gallery—that some of those spaces protrude inward into the chamber. Those would be the locations for accessible seating. There will be occasions during those special addresses, as an example, where not all of that accessible seating will be needed. Similarly, perhaps in the north gallery, the design of seating could be done in such a way that it could, as we suggest, be flexible or scale up to accommodate more persons and still meet national building code standards.We've asked the House administration and PSPC to come back to us, in this case, the House. I think Susan's team would come back to us with some suggestions. Sure enough, we'll have fixed seating and meet all the code for 296, but maybe there's a way some of that seating could be designed so that we could scale up to some standing room or some other means to accommodate more people on those special occasions.Finally, we'll say that the 296, relative to the number of members who are in the House, is relatively consistent with the other chambers and legislatures that we looked at as well, comparing the number of members to the number of seats in the gallery.In terms of lobby access and the idea of having an expanded lobby area on the lower floor, you all know that essentially what's on the second floor now where the lobbies are situated will effectively stay the same, with the exception of the area that protrudes into the light court on the right-hand side. There's a little bit of expansion there that will permit elevator access, for example, and other stair access for the opposition lobby side. On the lower floor you'll effectively have a space equal in size to the second floor, and each of those sides, both the opposition and government side, will have their own independent stairway and elevator so that members attending the lobby during the day can move up and down freely, and it would be fully accessible.(1110) We appreciate that it will create some potential issues around keeping members connected to their whips and leadership teams while they are there. However, considering the number of MPs that the House will need to accommodate in the usual proportions over the next 50 years, if the same formula is kept in place—we're already under space pressures now—it's only going to get worse down the road. Finally, on the cost differentiations on the light court proposals, I'm going to ask Rob to comment on that.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright (Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC)): (1110)[English] Sure. Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair. I will speak first about the lobbies. We looked at two options essentially for the chambers. The option that is proposed here—and these costs include the work on the galleries in the chamber and for the lobbies—is costed at approximately $75 million. The alternative option, which was the expanded chamber option that we looked at, was a little in excess of $300 million. Those were the two comparative options that we looked at. The proposed option here, which again includes the work on the galleries, the chamber and the lobbies, would be approximately $75 million.On the light-wells, as you quite correctly point out, there are a number of puts and takes from a cost perspective, so it is a little more complex. We could come back with cost comparisons on that, because there are the energy consumption considerations. The covering in the light-wells is essential to the sustainability strategy for the Centre Block. We have a carbon-neutral strategy for the Centre Block. Before it closed, the Centre Block was the worst performing from the perspective of energy performance, energy usage and GHG emissions within our portfolio. That is essential to the strategy, going forward.The other thing that would be important to note is that, especially with respect to the west and east courtyards, the use of these courtyards provides universal accessible access for Canadians to the galleries. Without using the courtyards in this way, we would have to find another and probably more costly way that would impact the heritage components of the Centre Block. This sidesteps a number of those issues. It is critical to the sustainability strategy, it is critical to the universal accessibility strategy and, as the Deputy Speaker indicated regarding the growth in the number of parliamentarians, it provides some additional elbow room for the building, which is critical. It's part of returning the Centre Block to the original vision of John Pearson, of making sure that there's symmetry, a light-filled space and common-use space for Parliament. This is essential and has been a bit lost over the years as functionality has, with the need for space, overtaken some of this common space.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]That's fine. Okay.We'll go to Mr. Richards, followed by Mr. Deltell.RobWrightBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Just to follow along, one of my three questions was addressed already but I have two additional. I'll just follow up on the light court proposal.We have the proposals for the west foyer, the west light court. Is there a similar proposal being put before our colleagues in the Senate for the east side and a light court there? I'm just curious on that front.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1115)[English]Indeed, there is. You may know that there is a working group much like ours on the House side that is getting constituted this month to deal with these issues as well. There is an east light court as well that is primarily surrounded by the Senate offices, but it's worth noting that there are House of Commons offices that typically face onto that light court as well. That's the subject of some discussion right now. It has not been finalized as of yet, but we are in the midst of discussions with the Senate working group to meet with them, hopefully in the new year.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1115)[English]Okay.Just as a follow-up on that, you mentioned that there are, for example, House of Commons offices that back into that area as well. How will the interface between the two work to ensure that things are coordinated in a proper fashion and we are not getting two very different outcomes on each side? Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1115)[English] We're looking at finding a way to certainly get agreement on what is done there, but I think that, overall, the core objectives are around ensuring that we are maintaining the heritage objectives and keeping the architectural integrity of this amazing building in place.Yes, we can modernize it and make it better from an energy efficiency point of view, but we're going to do all we can to make sure that we walk that line between an incredibly complex and busy operating workplace and, at the same time, maintaining that integrity and keeping the character of the interior services and spaces in such a way that it retains those remarkable features for generations to come.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]There's one other question I have. It wasn't really within the scope of your presentation this morning, but I am really curious about the welcome centre and how that will now look in terms of the entrance. Right now, of course, we have the one entrance in front of the Peace Tower. Is that preserved in this or will something be done? I've always found that a bit of an odd and very awkward circumstance. What are the plans for that going forward, or can you address that today?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1120)[English]For the Parliament welcome centre, we did adopt an approach there that will have the main entrance for Parliament, if you will, essentially on either side of the main stairs, right in the centre section as you walk towards the Peace Tower, as you approach those main stairs. The entrance for the public and for others is still somewhat part of a discussion on how we're going to finalize the uses. That's a discussion that's being had, and it's one of the things that the IDRP spoke with us about as well. It's to make sure that, as the public come up there, they'll enter what is essentially the centre point of the whole parliamentary triad, as they say: the East Block, West Block and Centre Block.On what you will see on the surface, though, as you look from Wellington up towards the Peace Tower, much of that is essentially going to stay the same. The lawn will be the same size. The Vaux wall, that stone wall that originates from the original structure, will be there. Members and senators will still have their own private entrances, as they do now, at grade level, on the east and west ends of the building. The main public will enter from the sides of the stairs and essentially go slightly downward at that point. The main level, B1, in the Parliament welcome centre is where most of the public will clear security and we'll have those features of the welcome centre there. It's from there that they would proceed. If they were going to the galleries, they would take the elevators up to the third floor from that location.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]When you say “the sides of the stairs”, do you mean the stairs that are there now—or were there—right under the Peace Tower? Are you talking about stairs that are going up from the lawn level?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1120)[English]The latter.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]Okay.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1120)[English]If you walk up that main walkway, there's that grand staircase that goes up to the upper level—we'll call it a mezzanine level, almost—that's at grade level with the entrance to the Peace Tower. It's at the base of those main stairs. The left-hand and right-hand sides are where you will go into the welcome centre.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]Okay. I think that does address what I was concerned with, which is the way it was previously. We all know that there have been situations where someone is coming directly into the building. We're avoiding that situation now. Someone will have to clear security before they enter the main building itself.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1120)[English]That's exactly correct. Yes.Mr. Blake Richards: Okay.Mr. Bruce Stanton: The fact is that it will be a prominent entrance. Wayfinding was an issue. As people walk up to this grand building, the entrance literally will be right in front of them. The closer they get to the building, they will immediately see that the entrance is welcoming them there.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1120)[English]That's great. Thank you.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]Very good.[Translation]Mr. Deltell, You have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1120)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mr. Stanton.I'd like to address three points with you.First, I'd like to speak about the floor area in the House of Commons. There are currently 338 MPs. Needless to say, while there won't be any work over the next two weeks, there will be for the next century. Demographics being what they are, we may well need more MPs. If so, it'll be difficult to expand the space if the walls are put up.Have you looked into the potential number of MPs who might sit in the future House of Commons? If so, do you expect future alterations?It's hard to see how the current configuration could sit 500 MPs.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[Translation]Thank you for this relevant question, Mr. Deltell.The working group took this into consideration. We have not yet had discussions about the details for this space. Over the coming year, we're going to examine options that could accommodate all the MPs.The schedule for the renovation work shows that it'll be spread over 50 years, from 2018 to 2068. The current number of MPs is 338. By 2060, we expect that there might be as many as 460. We'll find a way to accommodate all MPs in the House of Commons. The Board of Internal Economy has already said that for the time being, it would like to keep the official opposition on the other side of the house.The best approach would probably be to review the possible options for the future and to present several of these to the board.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1125)[Translation]It's going to take a lot of creativity.I have a highly technical question.Are you going to keep the floors the way they are now?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[Translation]I'd like to ask Ms. Kulba to take this one.There are several options, but this isn't the time to go into the details.Ms. Kulba, do you have any comments about this?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentSusanKulbaSusanKulbaSusan-KulbaInterventionMs. Susan Kulba (Senior Director, A and LTVP Program Management Directorate, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you.We've already established the available options for arranging all the seats in a way that would accommodate approximately 460 MPs, but they are still at the concept stage. More work is required before we can return to the working group with detailed plans. At that point, the possibilities can be studied and the best possible option for the House could be determined.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Ms. Kulba.A month ago I was able to visit the worksite with some colleagues and enjoyed what I saw very much. The people there said they had not encountered many surprises because they had a good work plan even before the sod-turning ceremony, which is a good sign.Do you have a timeline for completion of the work?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctSusanKulbaBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[Translation]We certainly do.I'd like to thank you for having visited the Centre Block worksite. In fact, all members of the Board of Internal Economy are welcome to do so.There have not been many surprises in the course of the renovation work on the Centre Block because we were indeed well prepared.What was your question?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1125)[Translation]The timeline for completion of the work was, to say the least, vague. There was talk of 10 to 20 years. Could we have a more precise idea of when the Centre Block renovation work will be completed?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[Translation]I'll ask Mr. Wright to answer your question.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much for the question.In fact, decisions about what we are discussing today are critical for coming up with a base budget and timeline. I'd say it'll be closer to 10 years than 20 years.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1130)[Translation]Good. Thank you.The third matter is more a comment than a question.Mr. Stanton, I'd like to thank you and congratulate you on the quality of your French. Just because we've been talking about it so much of late doesn't mean we need to talk about it even more, but I did want to point out that you've always spoken French, and I'm truly grateful for it.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctRobWrightBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Deltell.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]We'll now go to Mr. Rodriguez.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1130)[Translation]Mr. Deltell has asked the two questions I wanted to ask. Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Are there any other questions?PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1130)[Translation]I can confirm that there has not been any collusion, Mr. Chair.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]That's too bad. It's gratifying to see people working together.Are there any other questions?[English] Mr. Stanton, thank you for your dedication. I know you've been putting a lot of time into this, and I want to thank your team as well. We look forward to seeing you again with more good news.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Stanton.[English]Do we approve the five recommendations?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Great, you have good news to bring back.The next item is proposed 2021-22 main estimates. Our presenter is Daniel Paquette, chief financial officer. [Translation]Mr. Paquette, you have the floor.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1130)[Translation]Thank you Mr. Chair.I'm here to present the proposed 2021-22 main estimates for approval by the Board of Internal Economy. The estimates summarize the funding for items already approved by the board. There will accordingly not be any new funding requests during this presentation.The proposed main estimates for 2021-22 total $543.7 million, an increase of 5.3% over the main estimates for the previous year.In compliance with the Parliament of Canada Act, the House must prepare an estimate of the sums that will be required to pay the expenditures for the fiscal year to come and shall transmit the estimate to the Treasury Board, with the estimates of the government of Canada.The main estimates for the House of Commons include an estimate of voted appropriations and statutory items. The voted appropriations are estimated at $383.5 million. They include the expenditures of MPs and senior officials; committee, parliamentary association and exchange expenditures; and administrative expenditures.The statutory items are estimated at $160.2 million. These include salaries and allowances for members and House officers; contributions to members of Parliament retiring allowances; and contributions to employee benefit plans.[English] These main estimates include the cost of living increases based on previously approved policies and existing legislation. These are the office budgets and supplements for members and House officers, as well as the travel status expense accounts for 2021-22, which have been increased by 1% for a total of $1.7 million. This is in accordance with the adjusted consumer price index. The main estimates also include a budget adjustment of $1.2 million to some members' office budgets to account for changes in elector supplement, following the general election in 2019. In addition, the sessional allowance and additional salaries for members and House officers have been increased by 2.1% or $1.3 million, as provided by the Parliament of Canada Act. Economic increases for House administration employees, which were approved by the board earlier this year, amount to $5.6 million, which has been included in the main estimates for the next fiscal year. In addition, these main estimates include the funding related to initiatives that have recently been approved. That is a net increase of $4.5 million for the long-term vision and plan, $6.6 million for security enhancements for members, as well as the $5.2 million in funding to stabilize various administrative functions within the House administration.The main estimates include a decrease of $1 million related to the funding for conferences, associations and assemblies, leaving $300,000 for the 65th Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference, which was postponed from this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and is now planned to take place in August 2021.Finally, an increase of $700,000 in contributions to members' pension plans has been included due to the revised contribution rates for members. I would like to point out that while we are still considering uncertainty surrounding the duration of the COVID-19 pandemic and its continuing impact on operations and associated public health measures that will be required, these main estimates have been prepared using the planning assumption that operations would return to near normal during the upcoming fiscal year.This has been done to ensure that sufficient funding is available to meet the needs of the House over the coming year. That being said, we'd like to assure you that we will continue to monitor these unprecedented and evolving situations, and will take any necessary adjustments over the course of the year to ensure we can continue to adapt operations of the House to make sure we meet the needs of members in the fulfillment of their parliamentary functions.In conclusion, it is recommended that the board approve the proposed 2021-22 main estimates for the House of Commons for the amount of $543.7 million. This funding will be divided between two programs: $321 million for members and House officers, and $222.7 for the House administration.This concludes my presentation on the proposed main estimates. We can answer questions the members may have. Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]Mr. Julian has the first round of questions. DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1135)[Translation]Thank you very much.I honestly find it disturbing that the main estimates show an increase of approximately 5% over last year. The inflation rate is around 1%. In the presentation you just made—and I thank you very much for it, Mr. Paquette—you say that salaries rose, which is normal, but also that expenses for computers, security and administration also increased. You also discussed the effect that the COVID-19 pandemic had during the past year and that it will also have over the next fiscal year.Mr. Paquette, I'm going to ask you two questions. First, can you tell us, in general terms, about the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and its potential repercussions for next year's main estimates?Second, do you anticipate that the main estimates won't be as high? I think people expect that overall budgets won't increase significantly during the pandemic and that they'll be reasonable. If the main estimates rise considerably relative to last year, but the supplementary estimates are much lower next year, we'll approach a balanced budget. However, it will be more disturbing if there are just as many increases in the supplementary estimates.Thank you for all the details included in these estimates.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Go ahead, Mr. Paquette.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1135)[Translation] There is an item on expenditures during the pandemic a little further on in the agenda. We'll be discussing the impacts on this year in greater detail. As for the current trend, some expenditures are lower because we can't travel, create events or provide training. The reductions are greater than the additional costs stemming from the need to adapt to this new environment. We will address those items in more detail.Here's some brief background. Some changes have occurred in the House administration and the House itself over the past two or three years, and many new technologies have been adopted. There is the new Parliamentary Precinct as well as the West Block and the new buildings. New statutes are having an impact on occupational health and safety—you mentioned security, Mr. Julian—as well as accessibility.What we see in the proposed main estimates for 2021-2022 is the investment we need to develop the competencies and capacity that will ensure this transformation continues into the future.As for the supplementary estimates, all we have at this stage is the reprofiling of funds, which is one of our standard practices. We aren't anticipating these amounts. This year—and I mean the current year—we requested a little more than a reprofile of funds, since previously negotiated collective agreements had a retroactive effect. Without anticipating surpluses that might have resulted from the pandemic, we wanted to ensure we had the necessary funds to meet our financial requirements.At this point, we believe that no projects or initiatives will raise our supplementary estimates above normal levels. We are seeking only the usual reprofile of funds for next year.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1140)[Translation]Thank you.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Are there any other questions? I see there aren't any.Do we approve this recommendation?Agreed. Very well.Now we will move on to item five, quarterly financial report for the second quarter of 2020-2021.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English] Pardon me, Mr. Chair. I thought I had raised by hand and I hadn't. I did want to ask a couple of questions.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]We'll go back then. Please ask your questions. Mr. Paquette is still with us.Please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]There are a couple of things I wanted to touch on. One was similar in nature to Mr. Julian's questions, but I'll leave it for the second part. The other side of this is that some areas have seen decreases as well. One of them was the office of the law clerk and also legal services. I'm just concerned because I know at the health committee, the law clerk indicated to us that there were some resource constraints he faced in vetting some of the documents that he is going to have to do in response to the order made by the House on the 26th of October. I'm just wondering if we can have any comment on that decrease in resources, and whether the law clerk has the resources he needs now to be able to process those documents that the House and its committees have asked him to vet and to redact.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]That's very good.I'll open it up.[Translation]Go ahead, Mr. Dufresne.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne (Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons): (1140)[English] Thank you, Mr. Richards.The indication about increases in resources for the legal services at the House were increases that occurred in this past year. In terms of your question with respect to the committee, I did appear in front of the health committee last week and gave information about what we are expecting in terms of the potential volume of disclosure. We indicated that we had organized our resources to be prepared to deal with the task that the House has given us and we gave some parameters in terms of volume and the time that it would take us to review a certain number of documents. To give a sense to the committee, there had been some testimony about documents being in the millions of pages. That gave us a sense that it may take some time, but we were prepared to do what was necessary to achieve our task.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]You don't feel there are any additional resources that you require to be able to complete that in a timely fashion.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022PhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippeDufresnePhilippe-DufresneInterventionMr. Philippe Dufresne: (1140)[English] We indicated we could conduct the review of about 50,000 documents in seven days. There was talk of a much higher number than that, but we don't know yet how many we will receive. We also indicated that we would advise the committee as soon as we knew the specific number so that next steps could be considered. Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]On the other side of things, I share the concern generally about some pretty large increases. Mr. Julian has addressed them to a large degree, but I want to touch on it specifically. Looking at line items, there are some pretty huge increases in specific line items. Two of the largest were employee relations, which is a 78% increase, I believe, and human resources service centre, which is a 76% increase. One of the others that is among the larger ones is occupational health, safety and environment, which is up 26%. Those all seem to group together in the category of labour and employment issues. Is that driven by the pandemic or is there something else that it's responding to? Those are pretty alarming increases.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022PhilippeDufresneDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1145)[English]I'll start, and then ask my peer, Ms. Laframboise, to add to it. Some of that are the increases related to when we talked about the capacity for HR services for members. That was increased last year, and now we're stabilizing the funding. Then there was some capacity relating to some of the new legislation that was also stabilized this year. If I'm not mistaken, there has been some reallocation of resources and alignments within HR. I'll let Ms. Laframboise address the items more closely.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Paquette.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: [English] In essence, one of the questions you asked was around the large increase to the HR service centre. That group is a new unit that was put in place in response to the implementation of the enterprise resource planning program and system. The ERP is an integrated resource planning function that, over the long term, is going to help us align and streamline our resources and stabilize the organization indefinitely, which in the long term will help us manage our funding and our resources better. That is one piece of it. The other part you spoke about was occupational health and safety. There absolutely has been an increase in that function as a result of the implementation of Bill C-65, keeping in mind that we onboarded the members and the organization to a relatively significant piece of legislation, put in place the regulations, and adopted and incorporated new programs and new policies. There was definitely a significant amount of training to onboard Bill C-65. That is definitely an increase as well. Our plan going forward is to stabilize the organization, to leverage the enterprise resource planning in the integrated business planning piece and to maintain and continue our protections and our policies under the auspices of Bill C-65. Those are the bigger pieces of what you asked about. C-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence), the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022MichelleLaframboiseBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1145)[English]What you're saying to me is that it's been established in response to Bill C-65.C-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence), the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022MichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1145)[English] A very large portion of it is Bill C-65. As I mentioned earlier, we have 17 programs and policies that need amending. The employer's obligations are significant and require a lot of work up front. In the long term, hopefully we'll be able to stabilize that, potentially looking at aligning and streamlining some of those resources going forward. It is absolutely my plan to do that. C-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence), the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1145)[English] Okay.More broadly, I want to get a sense of what measures are in place internally to slow down expenditure growth. Mr. Julian mentioned that we're seeing an increase of over 5% in what we're seeing here, but I believe if you look back from 2014 until now, there has been a 29% increase in the expenditures in the House's estimates. This is a pretty large increase over a five- or six-year period. I'm wondering what measures are in place to ensure that this expenditure growth can be slowed down. What should the board being looking at? Is there any advice you can provide us on what we can be looking at as a board in terms of measures that can be put in place to ensure that we have stronger fiscal prudence and stronger controls and to make sure that we're not seeing these continual increases year over year?Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022MichelleLaframboiseDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1145)[English]I can reassure you that definitely in the last two or three years we have been putting a lot of effort into making sure, if we come forward with any requests for funding, we do an assessment and make sure we restabilize some of the resources and realign where we can to make sure the requests are only for what we need.There has been a progression of many legislative changes or other demands around services. The cost of living is obviously one of the big ones here, and there are some pieces above and beyond that. There are incremental services when we look at some of the pieces of legislation around disclosure and legislation around health and safety. Then we have the increased capacity around services for members, around HR, around the security that's more recent and around the onboarding. The most significant portion of the growth over the last three or four years has been the onboarding and taking control of the various new buildings in the parliamentary precinct. For those we made sure we challenged the work with the experts and just asked for what we needed to maintain these various systems and the tools given to us for that assignment.Many of these things are outside of the control of the administration to react ahead of time to try to manage these. We try to make sure our request for funding is limited to what is needed to maintain and support the infrastructure.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]I wanted to come back to this idea of finding ways to put in place controls for better fiscal prudence, but you sort of led me into my other question, which is about the fairly large increases in terms of the employment figures.We saw an increase, I believe, from 1,827 to 2,214. That's about a 21% increase. It's a pretty big jump. A couple of the bigger jumps were in procedural services, which we saw go from 261 to 442, and then in the office of the deputy clerk of administration, which we saw more than double in size from 37 to 77. I'm wondering if that's an increase because there are more part-timers with the pandemic or if that's really a legitimate full-time equivalent increase. What's driving this huge 21% increase in the employment figures?Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1150)[English]The report we provided to you, with the documentation at this time, represents the staff on force at the time we prepared the documentation. It gives you a full sense of how many people we have working at the precinct. Previously, the 1,700 or so people you saw were representing more or less the numbers that we're looking at: the actual full-time indeterminates, full-time long-term terms, or long-term terms part time. It didn't have some of our short-term seasonal workers and it didn't have many of the other people we have who are supporting and who are not necessarily there on a permanent basis at the precinct.For you to have a full picture, we made sure we had the complete on-site at that particular point in time. My apologies; we should have had a note to that effect on the documentation that we were presenting a different number, not a growth in numbers. That said, there has been some growth, given all of the items I identified earlier. Many of the services we offer require the capacity to support that, and that growth is there, but it's not the 21% difference that you see in the documentation. Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]What you're saying is that what we're seeing there is a snapshot in time, and the 21% wouldn't be an accurate portrayal of the growth. What would be more accurate in terms of a percentage of growth?Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1150)[English] I don't have that number in front of me. We could reproduce the report you received last time for the main estimates on the same basis so you can have that, and we can provide that to the board members to have a better analysis.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]That would be appreciated.Could you ballpark that for me? I wouldn't hold you to it, of course.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1150)[English]No, I can't at this point, because I look at so many different numbers and I don't typically have the FTE numbers or full-time staff with the financial ones. Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]Perhaps you could give us a better picture of what the growth would be in terms of FTE.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1150)[English]Yes.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1150)[English]Just going back to what I was on before with regard to measures that can be put in place, I understand about responding to legislative changes and things like that, but obviously 29% is far over and above inflation, for sure, in terms of the expansion of growth.I'll throw out something that comes to mind for me. What about looking at requiring some sort of offsetting decreases where there are new increases in spending? Is that something the administration would welcome? What kinds of suggestions could you give us that we can look at in terms of ways we can ensure that we're not seeing such continual growth?Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1155)[English]Definitely, we can work with the board members and list out all the various services that we provide and provide an opportunity to balance off and maybe reduce some of the service levels or the types of services we offer to support members.We can also offer to look at what I'll call the back office that supports all of these to make sure we keep those under control going forward. We have been doing some of this, but we can definitely work with the members of the board to do a bit more.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1155)[English]Thank you. I appreciate your answers.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[English]I just want to reconfirm, based on the new questions, are we still in accordance with the recommendation?Some hon. members: Agreed.[Translation]Now we will move on to item five, quarterly financial report for the second quarter of 2020-2021.I will let you continue your presentation, Mr. Paquette.Government expendituresMain estimates 2021-2022BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1155)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Now I would like to present the second quarterly report for the 2020-2021 year. I just discussed next year, but now come back to the current year. Since it's very difficult to explain this year's financial trends without considering the actual impact of the pandemic, I'm going to present the second quarterly report at the same time as the report we prepared for the update on pandemic-related expenditures. Items five and six will thus be presented together.I'll begin with the quarterly financial report, which compares cumulative financial information from the current year with that from the same quarter of the previous year. I would emphasize that it's somewhat unusual to compare the two years as they are two atypical years. The factor we've cited this year is the pandemic, which has substantially affected our expenditures. Last year, it was the general election, which also had its own trends. The comparison between the two years is influenced by atypical spending habits, as we will see in the results I'm about to explain to you.In the September 30 report, approved authorizations for 2020-2021 amounted to $539 million, an $18 million, or 3.5%, increase over authorizations for 2019-2020.The most significant changes were a $5.9 million rise in economic increases for certain House administration employees, $4.4 million for significant investments and an amount of $3.1 million due to cost-of-living increases for members and senior officers. In addition, a $1.7 million increase in authorizations is attributable to budget adjustments following the general election.As of September 30, expenditures totalled $230.8 million, compared to spending of $240.1 million for 2019-2020, a decrease of $9.3 million, or 3.9%.[English] The expenditures are also presented by type of cost. The most significant decrease in expenditures relates to the reduction of $8.1 million in transportation and telecommunications, which is due to the significant decrease in travel as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The expenditures for professional and special services have decreased by $4.8 million, mostly due to the reduction in temporary help for members and House officers, and training and hospitality across the whole organization as a result of COVID-19, as well as the difference in some of the timing of certain payments to external partners from one year over the next. The decreases were also partially offset by the cost of accommodating the virtual House proceedings and committees. In addition, the expenditures for material and supplies decreased by $2.7 million due to the temporary closure of the food services and the printing facilities as a result of the pandemic. The decrease was partially offset by the purchase of consumable items such as the face masks and hand sanitizer used across the House of Commons. The expenditures for computer, office equipment, furniture and fixtures has decreased by $1.1 million, primarily due to the differences in timing of certain payments from one year to another as well as a decrease in equipment purchased relating to the managed computing for constituencies initiative. The decrease was partially offset by the cost incurred for virtual House proceedings and committees and by the costs incurred for the equipment that was used to enable the House administration employees to work remotely during this pandemic. I will also elaborate a bit more at the end of this presentation on some of the COVID implications of our various other costs.I also note that salaries and benefits increased by $4.3 million, mainly due to the cost of living for members and their employees, as well as House administration. This increase was partially offset by the fact that we had a reduction in part-time staff and overtime as a result of the pandemic.Finally, the report provides a comparison of the utilization of our authorities between the two years that shows a decrease of 3.3%, which was not unexpected given the current situation. It's important to mention that the House promotes an efficient use of our resources, and we continuously strive to minimize the requests for incremental funding whenever possible. Given the current situation surrounding the COVID-19 pandemic, we are closely monitoring and considering potential savings as well as any financial impact when making funding decisions in this truly exceptional year. Given this, I'll take a couple of minutes to highlight the financial impacts the pandemic has had on the House spending. This is looking at the analysis that was provided in your tab 6 for background. You'll see that in addition to the reassignment of resources and the cancellation or slowing down of certain initiatives, we have had significant expenditures relating to specific measures taken for a total of approximately $4 million. Those include about $1.5 million invested to accommodate the virtual House proceedings and committees; $1.2 million for external printing services; $340,000 spent for constituency office reconfiguration and COVID-19-related supplies; and $380,000 for the House administration for computer equipment and personal protective equipment such as non-medical masks and sanitizing products. We have also noted that we've had approximately $500,000 of administrative salaries and overtime specifically related to the activities for the current situation.Overall, though, when looking at the various patterns that I mentioned previously, the reduction in certain costs like travel and material and supplies more than compensate for these increased costs related to the pandemic.Mr. Speaker, this concludes my presentation. I can answer any questions members of the board may have. COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1200)[English]Do we have any questions?[Translation]Are there any questions or comments?Go ahead, Mr. Deltell.DanielPaquetteGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1200)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Paquette.I'd like to make two observations. A figure of $341,000 is reported for the purchase of equipment and constituency offices reconfiguration. I'm referring to document 6 here. So the cost to fit up offices to accommodate people and to purchase disinfectants and masks amounted, on average, to $1,000 per constituency office. Is that correct?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1200)[Translation]Yes.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1200)[Translation]Are there any members who didn't have to reconfigure their offices?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1200)[Translation]Yes. Some decided not to open their offices. In some cases, as a result of the existing office configuration, there was no need to erect a physical barrier or install transparent plastic panels. Quite a large number of members have not yet had to incur those expenses.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1200)[Translation]I see.One line above, I see expenditures of $1.2 million for external printing services for householders.Is that the amount saved by the normal printing service, that is to say the House of Commons service?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1200)[Translation]I believe the economic gains are slightly less than the amount of that expenditure because we continued paying the salaries of employees at our printing centres. We saved money on equipment and supplies, but the figure I have combines all the services that were interrupted, including food services. So I don't have the exact amount for printing services.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1205)[Translation]What were the duties or the output of printing service staff during that time?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[Translation]We were in isolation, and employees were using the “other paid leave” code. The offices hadn't yet been configured, and the necessary adjustments had been made so employees could work safely in the printing centres.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1205)[Translation]So production was stopped at that time. Is that correct?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[Translation]That's correct.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1205)[Translation]Thank you.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[English] We'll continue with Mr. Richards.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Thanks.Just to be clear first, Mr. Speaker, items six and seven are closely related. Are we doing them together or is item seven going to be presented separately?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[English]Five and six are close but I plan on doing them separately. I believe it was Mr. Paquette who brought it in. We will be dealing with it in the next step.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Okay.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[English]Item seven will be presented separately.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Okay.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[English]Let me clarify, then.Monsieur Paquette, are we doing five and six together?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[English]Yes, since one is a variant of the other. It's just a little more elaborate. It will be easier to talk to them together.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1205)[English]Okay. We've covered both.Please go ahead. It's for information's sake. There's nothing to approve there.DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[English]Yes.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]We'll be talking about the temporary measures regarding COVID separately, then.DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[English]Yes.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Okay.I guess the first question is that I don't know if there was maybe as much detail as I had hoped. Regarding the reassigned staff, I'm still a little unclear. I know that this was a question I asked previously. I think this is partly in response to that. I'm still a little unclear on those reassignments. Can you give us a bit more of a breakdown on those? Are we talking about ongoing reassignments? Were these only temporary assignments? What sorts of reassignments did we see? I'm not asking for every bit of detail, but maybe you can give us some of the greatest in number in terms of the reassignments. What types of reassignments were they? What sorts of areas were people reassigned to and for what length of time?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1205)[English]Given that most of the reassignments that have been taking place relate to our DSRP team, I'll ask Mr. Stéphan Aubé if he wants to elaborate a bit more on what they basically are not doing or doing less of and doing now.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Okay.DanielPaquetteStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1205)[English] Thank you for the question, Mr. Richards.There are about 120 people within the DSRP, which is our shop here, who had to be reassigned from a roles perspective. Some of their duties had to be reassigned towards the support of the virtual Parliament, and we basically took a lot of the technical people that we had in operational issues. We had to stop some of the services so that we could reassign them to the support of virtual committees and the virtual chamber, sir. That number represents around 120 people within my organization, who we reassigned from their existing responsibilities to their new responsibilities, recognizing the need that was created by the virtual committees and the virtual chambers.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Okay.That would be the biggest bulk.StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1205)[English]Yes.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]How much of that would be dedicated to other things? Obviously we're still making plans for other things such as a voting app and other ways to adapt. What sort of a percentage of these reassignments would be related to the development of future responses we're still working on?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1205)[English]I can give you a breakdown for them.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]Sure.StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1205)[English]I've categorized in three buckets the resources that we've assigned to the virtual Parliament. There's the virtual chamber, and we have a group of around 30 people who have been reassigned and are dedicated to supporting the virtual chamber. There's a group of 77 that has been assigned to supporting the virtual committees. Also, then, there's currently a group of 13 that has been reassigned to the voting aspect.For the voting aspect, there were different phases to it. At the beginning, from May to June, we had five people working on validating the concept. After that, it evolved, after the motion, from five to 13 in the fall, sir.Specifically with the voting compared to the other one, I wouldn't say these are permanent resources assigned there. I'd say these are people who are working on that in addition to virtual chamber support and virtual committee support.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1205)[English]That's understood. Okay.Where have these people typically been reassigned from? In other words, what sorts of things are being left to the side or not being done to maybe the capacity we would have liked as a result of reassignments?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1205)[English]I'll give you an example that you probably know. The ambassador service that we offer to members in the committees and also for their offices is a group of fewer than 20 people. We took that group and had to reassign them to the onboarding for members for virtual committees and also for the virtual chamber. That's an example of the changes we've made. We've also had to reassign some of our security force to work on specific items relating to ensuring the security for these virtual meetings. We did some changes there. We also looked at the support that we offered for some applications to people who were working in that area. We basically also reassigned them to specific operations roles related to the virtual chamber and virtual committees. That's the type of decision we had to make in order not to increase costs to the organization, because the incremental costs from our perspective for virtual Parliament, as of September, were really around $1.2 million. We were able to maintain that incremental cost load because of the reassignments we've done.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1210)[English]While we're on the topic of virtual Parliament, with regard to committees, we've obviously been told that with logistical issues and maintenance issues with the systems, the approach that we've been using, this hybrid approach for committee meetings, is going to have to stop for about a month during the upcoming winter adjournment. If I remember correctly—I might be off a little bit—but roughly from December 19, for about a month, we would see a shutdown. What we're told is that this would prevent committees and even Parliament, if it needed to be recalled, from being able to sit in any kind of a way, even if there is an emergency situation that develops. We've seen that in the past this sometimes does happen while the House is in adjournment. Can we get a bit more of an explanation, especially for Canadians who might be following the proceedings today? What exactly is going on there? Why is it happening? What could be done to ensure that there is an ability for emergency situations to be dealt with? Could it be done in some kind of a staggered fashion so that even one committee could be accommodated where there might be an emergency? Obviously, there are reasons that needs to happen and we certainly wouldn't want to shut down our Parliament completely for a month if that was necessary. Can we get some explanation on what's happening there and also an indication of what could be done to ensure that there is an ability to function in a limited capacity if an emergency situation arises?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1210)[English]Mr. Richards, I will just make one comment to start. I can guarantee you that if there would be an emergency, the House would be able to return. That's the first point that I want to make. We pride ourselves on ensuring that the House sits, and we will guarantee that this happens if ever there is such an emergency.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1210)[English]Could I just add to that? In relation to committees, there are obviously times when an emergency committee meeting is required. Can we have the same assurance and guarantee that it would be possible, if needed?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1210)[English]If there would be an emergency and the Speaker would require us to make this happen, Mr. Richards, we'd certainly find a way to make this happen.Having said that, what we're planning to do is maintenance that we usually do when the House is not sitting. This year has been an extraordinary year. We haven't had a chance to do the maintenance that is required to some of our core systems. When I'm speaking about maintenance, I'm not talking about general IT maintenance of a network and stuff like that. I'm talking about the broadcasting systems that support the chamber and the committees. We need to do the necessary maintenance in order to prevent failures to these systems this winter, sir.The approach that we've taken in order to minimize risk is that we're going to focus on the core systems at the beginning, during the Christmas period. We're going to be working over the Christmas period from the 28th through to the fifth in order to update and maintain these systems and replace the systems that need to be replaced during that period. Then after that, our plan, sir, is to start focusing on committee rooms, one at a time, in order to start ramping up the systems as we can.We are taking a staggered approach in order to minimize risk to the organization, but it does have an impact on our ability to offer services to all the committees, as I have just mentioned, due to the changes we need to make.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1210)[English] I understand. I want to just make sure to make it clear that we appreciate that there's been a lot of change and adaptation required. You guys have done a really good job of trying to ensure that we're keeping pace with what's required under very difficult circumstances. I do understand that this can sometimes involve stuff that's far beyond my comprehension in terms of technical capabilities. I appreciate the work that you're doing. I really do appreciate the assurances you've just given us that there would be some way found to ensure that, in those urgent and emergency type situations.... That was my big concern. I'm really glad to hear that there will be ways to accommodate that, if needed.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]We'll now continue to Mr. Holland.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland (Chief Government Whip): (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'll just note that I'm noticing that these meetings are running a lot longer. The frequency of meetings is starting to increase significantly because we're taking a long time to get through the business. I would encourage members to avail themselves of the opportunity before the meetings to try to go through as many of these questions as possible. We typically move through these agenda items a lot more rapidly. I'm just concerned that we're not getting through these items with how much time we have. I'm concerned about the frequency of meetings we're having with BOIE. We're going to start turning it into a weekly meeting here, Mr. Speaker.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]Thank you for the comments.We'll now go to Mr. Julian.MarkHollandHon.AjaxPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1215)[English]I agree with Mr. Holland on this. We have some extremely important decisions to get to. I've found the staff are very good at providing answers on the financial records. There are also questions that really are a matter for House leaders and whips to discuss in another forum. We need to focus on the work that we need to do as a board of internal economy. For example, today I can't go past one o'clock and we're not going to get to the end of the agenda, which means we'll have to meet again next week. We're meeting now on a weekly basis. Mr. Holland's comments are very valid. We have to be concise and focused. We have to do the work we have and ask the important questions, but there are many ways of asking those questions beforehand and also of making sure that the issues that are a part of another domain, like House leaders and the whips' meetings, are kept there.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the Second Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English] Thank you to both of you.I just want to encourage all members, on a granular level, to maybe take a step up and look at what pertains to the Board of Internal Economy. That might be some good advice to look at. I'll leave it at that.We'll move on to item number seven, which is support for members' employees' telework arrangements and temporary measures in effect due to COVID-19.This seems to be the Monsieur Paquette show today. I'll let him continue.Constituency officesCOVID-19Members of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I'll let José Fernandez present this topic for me. He's my deputy CFO. He manages the team that reviews all these policies and has worked on it.At this point here, since we're working remotely, I'll mention to him quickly that there's a lot of material in this next section. We'll abbreviate the presentation so that we can get to your questions as quickly as possible, given the time that we have going forward.[Translation]You have the floor, Mr. Fernandez.Constituency officesCOVID-19Members of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingJoséFernandezJoséFernandezJosé-FernandezInterventionMr. José Fernandez (Deputy Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1215)[English] Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.This presentation follows up on an analysis requested by the board at its meeting of October 8 in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic. There are two parts to this presentation. The first part is the support of members' employees' telework arrangements. The second part is on the temporary measures in effect due to COVID-19.For the first part, the House administration reviewed its application of current bylaws and policies related to equipment typically required by an employee to perform their duties and the flexibility provided to members in the use of House resources to be more responsive to this exceptional situation. Just to shorten it a bit for the time, I won't go into the specifics here, but it's talking about the mobile computing and the portable computing devices and those used for printing.As well, from a mental health and well-being perspective, the House administration has reminded members and their employees of resources available on the source website through the different webinar series that were offered there.Last May, the board also approved COVID-19 temporary measures in constituency offices to support the implementation of the necessary preventative measures in accordance with the guidelines issued by public health authorities. This provided support to reopen constituency offices and for their employees to return to the office. This brings me to the second part of the presentation.[Translation]Now I will address the temporary measures in effect during the COVID-19 pandemic.Despite the pandemic, members continued to serve their fellow citizens from their constituency offices, which are particularly important in these times of crisis. The Board of Internal Economy had approved several measures, the first being the purchase of consumable items up to a limit of $1,500 per constituency office. That means non-medical masks, hand sanitizers and stickers to be applied to floors. These are items that we're now used to seeing when we enter establishments open to the public.The second measure was the purchase and installation of plexiglass barriers to enforce physical distancing guidelines. Here the limit was $2,000 per constituency office. Where the situation required, the limit could be raised to a maximum of $3,500 with advance approval. These expenditures were charged to the House administration central budget. We note that the trend was the same for both measures: approximately 90% of members spent less than 75% of the maximum allocated amount.Lastly, the third measure concerns the cost of professional emergency cleaning and disinfecting services that were to be used in the event a confirmed case of COVID-19 was reported in a member's constituency office. Here again, we have received no requests for reimbursement for these services as of November 23 last.With respect to advertising to enable members to communicate with their fellow citizens, the Board of Internal Economy had approved a limit increase to 20% of their budget for the 2020-2021 fiscal year. Greater flexibility was also allowed with respect to advertising content. In particular, members were informed that they could distribute information about COVID-19 from certain organizations that might be of interest to their fellow citizens. As of November 23, nearly all members had used less than half that new limit, although there are slightly more than four months left in the fiscal year.We have also assessed the impact of these measures on members' office budgets.(1220)[English] Finally, I will explain our assessment of the impacts of these temporary measures on members' office budgets for the current fiscal year.We have compared the budget utilization with two previous fiscal years, given that the last fiscal year was an election year and its expenditure patterns are not typical. As of October 31, which is a little more than half a fiscal year, 99% of members used less than 60% of their office budget. We have seen here overall that the budget utilization is lower than in the last two fiscal years we compared it to. Restrictions on travel and gatherings imposed by governing bodies and public health authorities have contributed to a significant decrease in travel and hospitality expenditures.In our review, we do not recommend any changes at this time to the temporary measures. As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to evolve, the House administration will continue to monitor members' overall expenses and the specific impacts of the temporary measures. We would like to come back to you in the winter with our recommendations for measures for the next fiscal year. At that point, we would have almost a full year's worth of data, so we'd be better positioned to provide our recommendations to the board for these or other measures.That concludes my presentation. I will be available for questions or feedback from the board. Thank you.Constituency officesCOVID-19Members of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1220)[English]That's very good.Are there any questions or comments?Mr. Richards.JoséFernandezBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1220)[English]I have just one thing I want to touch on.After the last presentation, my colleague Mr. Deltell was asking about printing and mailing. I've had certainly a number of complaints, for lack of a better way of putting it, from my caucus in terms of capacity constraints. There are longer periods of time required to get things completed, which is making it so that things aren't really being received by constituents in a timely enough fashion. It's almost, for lack of a better way of putting it, old news by the time they receive it.I wonder if, in this context of the pandemic, you would be able to bring forward on a priority basis some type of proposal for our consideration to renew the temporary measure that allowed for external printing. I had a lot of very positive feedback about that, and I think many members were finding it very helpful in this context. We should be looking at renewing that. Is there any way we could have a proposal brought to us on how that could be done?Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[English] We'll go to Mr. Patrice on that one.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1225)[English] I have heard the same concerns as you have. I can guarantee you we'll look at quickly making a proposal that will allow us to address those concerns.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1225)[English] Thank you. That's much appreciated.MichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]Go ahead, Ms. Petitpas Taylor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88364GinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Ginette-PetitpasTaylorMoncton—Riverview—DieppeLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/PetitpasTaylorGinette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Ginette Petitpas Taylor (Deputy Government Whip): (1225)[Translation] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.During the pandemic, we've all had to equip our home offices so we can perform our professional duties.Mr. Paquette or Mr. Fernandez, can you say how many devices, such as laptops and telephones, were purchased to equip our home offices?Constituency officesCOVID-19Members of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1225)[Translation]We've seen an increase in overall office equipment expenditures. Computer equipment purchases are governed by a very restrictive policy, and those expenditures are closely monitored.The upward trend isn't necessarily due to the COVID-19 pandemic. We often see this trend in office equipment and furniture purchases in the year following an election, as new members need to adapt their offices or change equipment to suit their new duties. We've noticed an upward trend, but there's nothing alarming about it.We don't have the inventory figures. In any case, when expenses are allocated, we don't always track the number of units purchased, such as the number of chairs. For computer purchases, we're still within the limits prescribed by the Board of Internal Economy's policy.Constituency officesCOVID-19Members of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingGinettePetitpas TaylorHon.Moncton—Riverview—DieppeAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]You have the floor, Mr. Deltell.DanielPaquetteGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for your presentations, gentlemen.Have you done a comparative evaluation of the average cost per member for the production of householders by the House of Commons printing service and by local printers? Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1225)[Translation]An analysis is under way. I'll let Ms. Kletke tell you about that. I know that the evaluation should be forwarded to the members of the Board of Internal Economy in the coming weeks.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke (Chief Operations Officer, House of Commons): (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Paquette.We've just completed that analysis. As Mr. Paquette said, we'll send you the results of the evaluation as soon as possible next week.With respect to the comparison of services used, the House printing service processed 87 householder requests, whereas outside suppliers handled 269.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingDanielPaquetteGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much for your response in French, Ms. Kletke.RebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1225)[Translation]Thank you.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]I would like to ask a question.Will the analysis include information on turnaround times for both the private sector printers and government printing services?Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke: (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much for your question.The analysis focuses on three points. We've included a comparison of costs and turnaround times, as well as other information on service levels across Canada. We observed that there were indeed different levels of service depending on the regions.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. Kletke.Go ahead, Mr. Julian.RebekahKletkePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1225)[Translation]I'd like to know the date when we'll receive the report.We'll of course have to mail out other householders early next year. Since we're still in the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic, knowing whether our offices can do business with local printers could make a difference.If we don't receive the report within a few months, we'll lose that opportunity to mail householders to our fellow citizens.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[Translation]Go ahead, Mr. Patrice.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1230)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.We intend to send you the results of the analysis in the coming weeks.As a result of the concerns expressed and Mr. Richards' question, we also intend, as soon as possible, to send the members of the board a written submission concerning the decision that must be taken with respect to access to external printing services.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[Translation]Now we will turn the floor over to Mrs. DeBellefeuille.MichelPatriceClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1230)[Translation]Mr. Chair, first I would like to congratulate printing service employees because they meet their standards. Every member's office is well informed of the entire process. From the start of that process to the mailing of their householders, standards are met, including those respecting the number of days or weeks. I have exhausted my householder budget despite the pandemic, yet the printing service hasn't failed to meet its standards even once. It's important to know that. Part of the responsibility for meeting turnaround times falls to the teams that create householder content, both in the ridings and on the hill. These people have a deadline to meet, a period of three weeks from start of process to mailing. That may not be fast enough for some, but the fact remains that established standards are met. I want to emphasize that.The advantage of using a local printer is, first, that it would support a local business. That's a positive. We would also have control of the process and the number of days involved. That varies locally, but it's true that it also varies across Quebec and, I imagine, across Canada. Back home, in less than five days, I can get 46,000 copies of a householder of the same quality as that of the House printing service, and turnaround times are shorter.I'm eager to see the analysis. We're always somewhat reluctant when we discuss privatizing printing services. What will happen to employees if the work is farmed out to businesses in our constituencies? Using our printing service guarantees uniform quality. Formats must be used and graphic standards met, and there's the whole issue of householder standards. Because those standards are applied, all members are put on an equal footing. I care about the fact that 338 members can come and go through the same door, and all of them are treated equally.The supply of services in the private sector is excellent in some regions and less so in others. In this case, are we going to create a two-tiered system? Some members from urban areas may have access to better services in the private than the public sector, and others may have less leeway and have to navigate the House printing service bottleneck.I'm eager to read your analysis. These are matters that concern me. They require a fair and equitable decision, but they must especially take into consideration taxpayers' ability to pay. Ultimately, I'd like to know whether it will cost taxpayers more money to print our publications in the private sector or whether the price the House printing service charges is reasonable for all taxpayers.I just wanted to set the tone for the debate we'll soon be having.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1230)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1230)[Translation]It's entirely fair and relevant to recall that the work the printing service does here in the House of Commons always meets all the requirements that Mrs. DeBellefeuille has rightly mentioned. Quality is never sacrificed. It is always there.If many members wish to deal with local businesses, that will free up time for those who prefer to use the House service. We could thus save time. If you make this proposal, it might be good to know what percentage of members are involved—20% or 50%, for example. Could we estimate the production time that could be saved? Could we shorten it from three weeks to two weeks, one week or eight days? I'm asking a good question. It would be a good if your evaluation could answer it.Constituency officesCOVID-19HouseholdersMembers of Parliament staffPandemicTeleworkingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1235)[Translation]Thank you.Are there any other questions or comments?Since there are no comments or questions, we will break for three minutes and then continue the meeting in camera. [Proceedings continue in camera] GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting dayTRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0112nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, November 26, 2020Le jeudi 26 novembre 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTNovember 26, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 011NUMBER 011NUMÉRO 011011261120202020/11/26 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Hon. Anthony Rota): (1235)[Translation]We are now in a public meeting.We're at item three in the minutes of the previous meeting. I see that everyone agrees with what they received.Let's move on to item four, business arising from the previous meeting.We'll go to Ms. DeBellefeuille now.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1235)[Translation]I'd like to thank Mr. Janse for having answered our questions. Some members of the Board of Internal Economy, or the BOIE, had questions about some of the reports that were tabled. I asked a question about the headsets worn by witnesses appearing before the committee, but the answer, while not unsatisfactory, could have been more detailed.It says here that 400 headsets were sent to witnesses. In fact, approximately 20% of the witnesses received a headset. I'm sure you understand, Mr. Chair, why I'm drawing attention to this.The hybrid format being used for House sittings and committee meetings is creating problems for francophone MPs from all the parties. The headset problems are one thing, but trying to get witnesses to understand how to change the interpretation channel is another. I'd like Mr. Janse to have an answer for us at the next meeting of the BOIE. I would like to know how many witnesses spoke French, and I'll tell you why.Here's what I think. Approximately 90% of witnesses speak English, which means that it's essential to have interpretation into French. When a witness gives evidence in French and no English interpretation is available,there's sure to be a point of order within 30 seconds to correct the situation. I'd like to see these technical and interpretation problems dealt with. I don't feel that the situation is improving quickly enough.Yesterday, I was a bit exasperated, or I should say discouraged—that's the better word for it. In a meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship appeared to discuss the main estimates, but did not have the right headset and interpretation was impossible. It's rather discouraging to see that the minister's officials didn't go to the trouble of making sure that he had the right equipment and knew how to work the interpretation channels to make interpretation into both official languages possible.If Ms. Normandin, our spokesperson, had been a unilingual francophone MP and had not understood anything in English, what would have happened? It's easier for the technicians to tell the witnesses to speak English, because then they don't have to do anything with the interpretation channel, which we all agree has been a problem and a hindrance.In the report that was tabled, I'd like the number of witnesses who gave evidence in French to be recorded, so that we could see whether the technological problems have been having more of an impact on members who speak French.Yesterday, a witness at the fisheries and oceans committee did not have a headset and the interpretation was not working in either direction. When he spoke French, the anglophone MPs said that the interpretation was not working and when he spoke English, it too was not working. The Bloc Québecois member had to ask questions in English because she could not ask them in French owing to these problems.I don't know who to tell about the problem. The clerks and the committee chairs certainly need to be made aware that it's unacceptable for francophone MPs to be told they can't ask their questions in French because the witness does not understand or because the interpretation or the equipment is not working. There are francophone MPs in every party. The MPs can't understand the witnesses because things are not working in either direction.We had an exploratory discussion yesterday about the French situation.(1240)It's rather sad to see that we still have some hiccups in terms of access to French.We received a solid report about the committees from Mr. Janse and we are going to use it to look into this matter at the Bureau of Internal Economy more thoroughly because it' s too important and we have to find answers to the problems that francophone MPs are currently experiencing when they sit on the various committees.I am aware of all the efforts being made by House staff members and by the IT teams. I'll be the first in line to thank them. I know that everyone is working hard on it, but we' re running out of time. We know that we'll still be operating as a hybrid Parliament for some time to come and that we can't carry on for long until this situation about access to interpretation in both official languages has improved.I know that some witnesses are called only on the day before they are to give evidence. Headsets can't be teleported, and have to be sent to them, which is impossible at the moment through House services, particularly when a meeting is called only the day before. However, I do find it unacceptable when ministers and others don't have the right equipment when they appear.If the witnesses don't have the required equipment, then we need to find another solution. We can't tell the francophone MPs that there are problems and limitations and that that's just the way it works. I'm going to do battle on this important issue. If we don't, who will? It's up to all of us to find a solution.I have no complaints about House Administration; quite the contrary. However, we need to work harder to make the committee chairs more aware of the situation. They need to demonstrate flexibility in allocating time. If a francophone MP from any of the parties is asking questions in French and needs to repeat them because the witness did not understand as a result of an interpretation problem, then the speaking time needs to be adjusted.We've already discussed this. I clearly remember that the government House leader said that speaking time would be adjusted. He mentioned that the chairs should be flexible about the idea of allowing a little more time to avoid penalizing an MP who is losing speaking time because of having to repeat things three times for witnesses who did not understand the question in French because of interpretation or technological problems.At the next Board of Internal Economy meeting, I would like an update on how much of the evidence was presented only in French, because that would show us the scale of the problem. Here is an example of what can happen when evidence is only in French. Last week, the member for Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP) was interrupted in the middle of asking a question in French to an anglophone member who rose on a point of order because he didn't understand the question. You allowed the member to repeat the question. In question period, when a member is interrupted in the middle of a question, it has an impact on spontaneity. Some people don't hesitate to interrupt a member when they don't understand.We're trying to be understanding and willing to compromise. There are some exceptional circumstances in which we will compromise by listening to evidence in English. For example, there was moving evidence at a meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. We understand that there can be exceptions, but they should be just that – exceptions. At the moment, it's happening all too often.At the next meeting of the Bureau of Internal Economy, I'd like us to get together to try to find ways of improving the situation on the basis of Mr. Janse's report.Thank you for taking the time to hear me out.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. DeBellefeuilleOver to you, Mr. Julian.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1245)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I fully agree with Ms. DeBellefeuille's comments.On some of the committees I sit on, when there is an interpretation problem, the committee's work simply comes to a halt. This is what should be happening for all committees and witnesses. Our technical capabilities should definitely enable us to handle both official languages. The practice needs to be introduced just about everywhere to ensure that both official languages are always respected.Even though I have never experienced this situation myself, I know that when there were problems at some committees, the chair just carried on. In some instances, not all arrangements were in place to ensure that both English and French could be treated equally. I think something could be done, including in our respective caucuses.Yesterday evening, there was a four-hour debate in the House of Commons. It was about the use of French in Montreal and concerns about the issue from all the parties. The concern expressed was unanimous. Throughout the entire evening, everyone spoke only in French, making it a francophone evening in the House of Commons. It's ironic that we should find ourselves here this morning facing the same problems, which are occurring within the House of Commons' own institutions.It therefore needs to be taken seriously. I believe that the suggestions Ms. DeBellefeuille just made could steer us in the right direction.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[Translation]Mr. Rodriguez, over to you.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1245)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm fully in favour of Ms. DeBellefeuille suggestions. I believe that we all want to strengthen French. This commitment was expressed yesterday, but it needs to be heard every day. I think that we're all sincere, whether in the New Democratic Party, the Conservative Party, the Bloc Québecois or the Liberal Party. But we need to do even more. We all agreed on this yesterday. We need to say it again today and say it again tomorrow. And it needs to go beyond mere words, and transformed into concrete action.I think that some of this responsibility unfortunately falls to the committee members. We spoke about it earlier. I therefore suggest that when a problem of this kind arises, the MPs themselves, out of respect for both official languages, should ask that discussion cease until the problem is solved.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1245)[Translation]Mr. Deltell, you're next.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Commons): (1245)[Translation]I am 100% behind everything my three colleagues have said. It goes without saying that we need to be able to express ourselves in both official languages and to be understood no matter who is speaking, or where and how they are speaking, our comments need to be be understood and we have to be able to understand what others are saying.For three months now, we have been in unknown territory with the hybrid Parliament. In the first few days, and even the first few weeks, we put up with a situation that might on occasion have been tentative. After two months, the train is moving forward and making progress. However, it is not moving in the right direction. As Mr. Rodriguez was rightly saying just now, the responsibility is now over to us. As francophones, whenever we don't have access to French interpretation, we should rise on a point of order. And our anglophone colleagues need to do the same.It's also up to us as parliamentarians to call to order or complain about any colleagues who show up with an inappropriate headset. It's a bit awkward to do this when it's a witness, but we can certainly call out a colleague. We could even apply some rough and ready rules and tell those who don't have the right headset that they simply can't speak.That's all. There are rules and they need to be followed. I would never, for example show up here wearing a cockeyed tie. As an MP, I'm required to wear a tie and I'm also required to wear my headset. Otherwise, I don't have the right to speak. I think we should give this some consideration.My final point is more technical. If, for one reason or another, a witness is asked only a few hours before the meeting to appear and doesn't have the required equipment, then we should be more flexible. Is it technically possible in cases like that for a person to give evidence by telephone? I don't know whether this is possible. If so, and if we find that they can't give evidence because they don't have a headset, then we could give them give them 20 minutes to find a phone and call us at a number like “1-800-House of Commons”. In the meantime, we could hear another witness.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1250)[Translation]We'll look into that, Mr. Deltell.Virtual ParliamentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1250)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Aubé.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1250)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Deltell.Go ahead, Mr. Gagnon.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentAndréGagnonAndréGagnonAndré-GagnonInterventionMr. André Gagnon (Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons): (1250)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion and thanks to Ms. DeBellefeuille for having raised the question.You raised another point that 's just as important for us, and that is the service provided in both official languages to parliamentarians and witnesses. There is no reason for me to go into detail about why we had problems in certain instances, because you're thoroughly familiar with the situation.Several of you have pointed out that part of the solution resides in the decisions that the committees will make. Thus far, the role that the Liaison Committee could play has not been mentioned in the discussion. We need to approach them to inform them more directly about the problem. The guidelines provided by the Liaison Committee could be very useful in solving some of the problems you raised with respect to official languages and technical support.I've noted the issues raised by Ms. DeBellefeuille, as well as the requests for information about the number of witnesses who speak in French. I think that we can come up with this information, and with the percentage of French spoken.We'll work with Mr. Aubé'sTeam on other configurations for appearing, as suggested by Mr. Deltell. We'll get back with answers to these questions as soon as possible.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1250)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Gagnon.[English] Now we have Mr. Richards.AndréGagnonBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1250)[English]Thanks.Just to add to this, there have been a number of issues, certainly for translation or interpretation, with regard to the headsets. However, probably the most serious breaches of it has been when we've had instances with ministers appearing at committees or committees of the whole where there have been delays related to either their not having a proper headset or their not having secured a proper location to have a good Internet connection.It is absolutely incumbent upon ministers of the Crown to ensure that they are putting themselves in a position where they will have the proper equipment, connections and so on. They know often well in advance when they're appearing at these things to be held accountable in committees. Where this is happening, I won't indicate the motives behind it and there may not be any, but without a doubt, it should be expected of ministers that they be prepared for their committee and committees of the whole with proper connections and proper headsets. In instances where committees are being delayed or held up as a result of these kinds of issues, I really believe the minister should be expected to make up that time at the committee. If anyone should be expected to be clear on these things, it should be ministers of the Crown. I point that out as well for the deliberations that are being held in terms of how we can address some of these issues. Ministers should be very clear on the need for a headset and a connection that is not problematic. We've seen far too much of this, and it seems to me as though it's limiting the ability of members of all parties to hold the ministers accountable, so this has to be addressed as well.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1255)[English]That's very good. Are there any other comments on this?We'll be getting some information back.I notice we have all the whips here, so I'll ask the whips to reiterate with their caucus to wear headsets when they're asking questions, when they're answering and when they're at committee. I know it's frustrating, even when we're in the chair. I like the suggestion by Monsieur Deltell that maybe if you don't have the right equipment, you can't play the game. It might be something we'll have to consider. I can't make that decision unilaterally, but if the House were to decide that, I would be more than happy to enforce it.Next is item five: sustaining the end-user software subscriptions for the House of Commons. I notice that we have only four and a half minutes left. Do we want to start it, do we want to extend the session or do we want to wait until the next session to actually embark on this in a fulsome manner?Computer softwareBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1255)[English] I cannot go past 1 p.m., but this may be a very quick item.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1255)[English] Mr. Aubé, you're on the clock. Go as fast as you can. PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1255)[English]I'm going to change my presentation. [Translation]We are here today to ask for permanent funding for subscriptions to the software used on personal computers in the House of Commons and on smartphones. The goal is to give you a brief description of how funding has worked over the past few years. In 2015, the companies that supplied these goods and services made a major change in their business methods.Previously, during an election, we would ask the Board of Internal Economy, through a bidding process, for funds to purchase software and updates. Every four or five years, more or less, with a list in hand to indicate the life cycle of the software and personal computers, we requested the funds from the Board of Internal Economy, and funds for capital investments as well. However, in 2015, the system changed. The industry and our suppliers moved to a subscription model. Today's request reflects this major change.There are other factors too, including an increase in the number of users on the hill. There is also a growing number of services that we now offer owing to the explosive increase in Internet use and security requirements. That's why we're requesting permanent funding of almost $2 million per year for items to be used by MPs. We are requesting permanent funding of approximately $1.2 million for House of Commons Administration in connection with these items.That then is a summary of the prepared presentation.Computer softwareAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1255)[Translation]Are there any questions or comments?I believe that everyone is in agreement on the recommendation. Good.That's all for today then. Thank you.The meeting is adjourned.Computer softwareStéphanAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgDaily adjournmentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0102nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, November 19, 2020Le jeudi 19 novembre 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTNovember 19, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 010NUMBER 010NUMÉRO 010010191120202020/11/19 11:05:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1100)[Translation]Welcome to the 10th meeting of the Board of Internal Economy.[English] We'll start off with the minutes of the previous meeting. Everything is acceptable. Does anybody have any comments to make on that?[Translation]I see that there are no comments about the minutes. Are there any comments about business arising from the previous meeting?Okay. Everything is clear.[English]Item three is on sustaining the information technology systems and facility assets from the long-term vision and plan, LTVP.We'll have Stéphan Aubé, chief information officer, and Daniel Paquette, chief financial officer, present to us this morning.Before we continue, I want to remind everyone that we do have a lot of material to cover this morning. I want to make sure you keep your questions concise, very thorough but very concise, if possible.[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Aubé, you have the floor.StéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé (Chief Information Officer, House of Commons): (1100)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and members of the board.We're here to obtain approval for permanent funding for the operations, maintenance, support and life-cycling of building connectivity assets that are transferred from PSPC to the House as part of the long-term renovations.This business case is not a new business case. It's actually an update to a previous approval that was made by the board. The House administration came to this board in 2014 to seek approval for connectivity assets. It came back in 2015 to seek approval for components assets. It also came back in 2017 to seek approval for both connectivity and components assets.The board had approved $24.6 million in temporary funding at that time. In addition to the $24.6 million that we're now seeking as permanent funding, we've also updated the life-cycling plan to include the assets of $6.7 million that have been transferred since 2017 to the House. The $6.7 million represents the budgeting that is required to sustain $77 million of assets that were transferred from the renovations to the House.I would like to give you a bit of the history of the funding and the approvals that were previously received, because some members of this board might not have been here at that time.(1105)[Translation]The 2014-2015 submission to the Board of Internal Economy primarily involved assets transferred in connection with the renovations, which you see in yellow on the diagram.After 2007, the goal of the long-term renovations was to get people out of the Wellington Building, the Valour Building and the Sir John A. Macdonald Building in order to renovate those buildings. So we renovated the Justice Building and, through Public Works, we acquired space on Queen Street so that we could relocate the House Administration people there.The first submission focused on those buildings and some of the BCC projects, the building components and connectivity program, that we had put in place. Because we knew that Parliament Hill was growing at that time, we had plans to network all those buildings together, like a campus. We had projects like the massive conduit work on Sparks Street. A multimedia operations centre was also established for all broadcasting requirements.In 2017, we returned to the Board of Internal Economy to request the necessary funds to support the renovations to the Wellington Building. The building at 180 Wellington Street houses 60 members of Parliament, and has about 10 committee rooms. We had also requested funds to support assets related to the Sir John A. Macdonald Building and the Valour Building. We also needed two other buildings so we could relocate House Administration staff.Today, when we say $6.6 million, we are mainly referring to assets associated with the operation of the West Block. As you know, that's the building currently in use. We also have the Visitor Welcome Centre.These primarily make up the requests for permanent funding we are presenting today to the Board of Internal Economy.[English] When we talk about assets throughout this presentation, we are basically talking about two different categories of assets. We talk about connectivity assets, such as the cable TV network that's on the Hill, the integrated security system, the networking aspects and all the multimedia aspects. We also talk about component assets. These are assets that are linked to the facilities, but they are basically mobile within the facilities, such as the furniture, the art and artifacts and any specialized equipment such as broadcast lighting and air conditioning that are related to technologies. These are the particular assets we're talking about that are under the responsibility of the House.This chart depicts the amount of assets that have been transferred as part of the renovations to the House. As you can see, there are $205 million of assets that have been transferred since 2000. Over the last four years, since 2016, the $77 million basically represents the assets that weren't part of the 2017 approval that we sought from the board. What you're seeing through this chart is a depiction of the changes. The changes that we're seeking through this business case are basically linked to connectivity. You see the variances. We've demonstrated the variances across the different areas of investments, which total up to $6.6 million.From a components perspective, as I said, for the assets that are linked to the buildings, we're not seeking any additional funding. The reason for this is we believe with the funding that we have, and also based on the current situation due to COVID, we'd like to defer any changes to that element of the funding that we received in the past because there could be possible changes in the future. We just want to focus on the connectivity assets because this is where we actually have an understanding of what possible funding requirements we'll have in the future.Lastly, I'll give you a bit of the history. Why are we responsible for this? When the long-term renovations were launched in the late 1990s, there was an agreement between all partners, the parliamentary partners being the Senate and the House, and PSPC, which outlined the roles and responsibilities. Basically, for these projects, such as the West Block, Public Works is accountable for the overall project scope and delivery of them, but they're also responsible for the capital funding. They provide the funding when we need to actually acquire these assets, but we are accountable for the operational funding, so the maintenance, the support and also the life cycle of it. This is a key element of why we're here today, because we are accountable for making this happen, so it is our obligation to actually fund these assets.I just wanted to outline some of the benefits of why it's important for the House to actually receive this funding. I put these pictures there and some of you might remember these facilities. As you see, the picture in the middle is an actual committee room pre-renovation. This was a committee room in the Valour Building. I have pictures also of the West Block. They're very similar. You can see the tables, the layout of the facilities and the amount of technology that was in these facilities. The picture on the right is actually the broadcasting facilities that we've had to provide services to the chamber and to the committees from a television perspective. There are many temporary facilities. These buildings weren't equipped with the equipment that we had to put forward to actually offer 21st century meetings. I just wanted to give you guys a bit of history from a benefit perspective.You'll also see the cabling arrangement in these facilities. This is actually a picture of Centre Block. It shows the security systems, how they were actually installed because we didn't have the infrastructure to support them. Basically now, with these renovations, we've allowed members to have facilities that enable them to interact and have proper meeting facilities for the caucuses, the committees and the chamber.Finally, there's been a lot of investments in order to enable parliamentarians to better communicate and serve their constituents in the chamber, as well as from an infrastructure perspective behind the walls.Having said that, the final recommendation is that we're here to recommend that the board move forward with the investment required, and also that we move forward with the permanent funding as of 2023-24 of nearly $30 million for these assets that have been transferred to the House.Mr. Speaker, I'll just open it up for questions.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1110)[English]Very good. Are there any questions?Mr. Julian.StéphanAubéPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1110)[English]Thanks very much. I appreciate the detail that is in the documents. I want to be sure that this allows for the transition and acquisition of both the capital and staffing required and that there won't be further funds required in coming years. This issue, as you've mentioned, Mr. Aubé, has come back repeatedly to the BOIE over the last few years. I think that certainly Canadians want to know that we're actually putting into place a plan that works for the long term and that is sustainable.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1110)[English]Thank you, Mr. Julian, for the question.There are two parts to your question. We have came back every three years because in 2014 we made a commitment to the board that we would come back every three years. We had recognized that there were a lot of renovations under way and we weren't ready to actually commit to permanent funding because we didn't have the clear picture at that time. This is why we came back every three years. I can attest, sir, that we feel with a high level of confidence there won't be requirements for the existing assets we have.Having said that, there are facilities that will need to be onboarded in the future, sir, such as at Centre Block. We're starting the renovations of Centre Block. We're also starting the renovations of the Confederation Building. We're in planning. We're also looking at the renovations on Sparks. These would be separate elements, sir, but for all the elements that I've shown you, we are not planning to come back to the board. We feel that we have a very sure understanding of the requirements of the funding for the assets that we've transferred. We feel very confident.I would ask my colleague Dan, the CFO, to comment on that. We've done our due diligence, sir, from a financial planning perspective on all these assets.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1115)[English]I want to comment on that also.We've done our homework. We've done due diligence on best practice for this kind of technology and the pieces here. That's why we were coming back every three years. We wanted things to be stabilized. As Stéphan outlined in his presentation, we have had oversight and control of some of these buildings in their renovated state for a couple of years or more. We're able now to actually sit down and do those estimates with some level of assurance.Obviously, none of us have a crystal ball. Unless some really unusual event occurs or changes occur in how Parliament wants to do business, for these buildings and these assets, this is our best estimate of what we feel is needed long term.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctStéphanAubéPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1115)[English]There will be additional funding in the coming year or two, on Centre Block and Sparks Street, potentially.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctDanielPaquetteStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1115)[English]That would be in the long run, sir. We don't see that over the next six years, at least. We see that in a longer time period.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1115)[English]Thank you.StéphanAubéAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Are there any other questions?[English]I'll just follow on Mr. Julian's question, if I can. It's the prerogative of the chair to ask a question.Just to clarify, I think we're mixing hard assets and operations here. They're two separate issues. What we have here is operations, correct? Salaries? That has nothing to do with purchasing new assets.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyStéphanAubéStéphanAubéStéphan-AubéInterventionMr. Stéphan Aubé: (1115)[English]It's not only salaries, sir. It's the ability to maintain and support the assets, such as the cameras in this facility. We have to life-cycle them over the years. What we're seeking is the money to life-cycle them whenever the end of life will come to them. We're also seeking the money to support them and maintain them during their expected life cycle. We had sought some original money for salaries in the previous periods. We're not seeking any additional funding for salaries.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[English]Very good. Thank you.[Translation]Are there any other questions?[English]There are two recommendations. Are we okay with those recommendations?Very good, we're in accordance.[Translation]We are moving on to item 4.[English]It concerns funding stabilization. [Translation]The first witnesses will be Mr. Paquette and Ms. Laframboise.You have the floor.StéphanAubéDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1115)[English] Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I'm here today on behalf of the administration to present two submissions. They're both seeking the board's approval for funding to stabilize the capacity that is needed to maintain certain initiatives that have been undertaken to support members in the fulfillment of their parliamentary function.The first request is for funding to stabilize enhanced services provided by financial services and human resource services to support legislative and policy changes or to improve our service delivery.The second request is for funding to stabilize resources following the implementation of a comprehensive enterprise resource planning and business renewal initiative that was undertaken to replace the outdated financial and human resource platform.I'd like to provide a bit of context here. There have been several legislative and policy amendments over the last few years that have driven changes in the area of finance and human resources. These include the coming into force of Bill C-44 and Bill C-65, in addition to many bylaws and policy amendments. In addition to this, we've been making significant investments to better assist members in the fulfillment of their parliamentary functions, including but not limited to the LTVP that we've just finished talking about, which changed how we do business on the precinct. It modernized and enhanced our technology and telecommunications. We also need to manage the sustainability of those various assets across facilities.There have also been the investments around the security enhancements, the increase in broadcasting and webcasting for committees, the modernization of our food services, the HR services for members as employers and the managing of computing in the constituency that has been going on for the last couple of years. That's just to name a few of the investments that have been going on.These changes and investments have led to increased complexity in the management of budgets and have increased the need to enhance our financial analysis and planning. This means there's an expanded role for the financial planning and resource management team, including addressing the challenging administrative funding requests; working with partners to ensure that all business cases and related financial requirements are accurate and thoroughly documented; and providing accurate and timely financial information and analysis to allow senior management to make the appropriate decisions around the budgets, reallocation and use of the internal resources. This is also the team that's been developing the new reports that we've been bringing here to the board, which are then made public on the website. Sustaining this increased capacity is required to maintain the initial workload associated with the new reporting requirements and the strengthening of our financial advisory services. The funding request here is for four FTEs, for a total amount of $518,000. Also, the establishment of the constituency office lease services has allowed the administration to better support members in the management of office leases. The board approved a policy change where constituency office leases would be assigned to the administration if a member was not seeking to be re-elected or was not re-elected. Taking effect with the 2019 general election, the new assignment clause allows assets to remain in offices and newly elected members to occupy those offices as soon as the former member vacates those premises. To address operational needs, a team with the appropriate knowledge and skill sets was created to develop the tools and processes to manage this new responsibility. Following the lessons learned in previous and past elections, this three-person team now actively provides the members and the House administration with the various tools, guidance and support needed for constituency office tenancy. In addition to supporting members in quickly becoming operational in their constituency offices, this team has also achieved savings through facilitating the transition after an election and the ongoing relationships between members and their landlords. Given the success in assisting members in managing their complex commercial leases, we are seeking approval to retain this team and asking for the annual cost of $273,000 to fund these three FTEs.The next piece is the increased resources needed to respond to the coming into force of Bill C-65, the act that amended the Canada Labour Code, the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act. The act extends the health and safety obligations under part II of the Canada Labour Code to parliamentary entities, including the House administration and members as employers. This program requires the development and maintenance of policies and programs to ensure that both members and House administration meet their legal obligations under the code and that members are helped to meet their obligations as employers.(1120) Resources are also needed to support the 17 different corporate prevention and compliance programs related to this initiative. These resources will contribute to the safety and well-being of House administration and member employees, the development of resources and tools for members, and the cost savings that could be incurred in relation to work injuries. To accomplish this, we are seeking the permanent funding for the 4 FTEs at a total annual cost of $318,000.C-44, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 22, 2017 and other measuresC-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence), the Parliamentary Employment and Staff Relations Act and the Budget Implementation Act, 2017, No. 1Financial managementHouse of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]Are there any questions?DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1120)[Translation]I was not finished. I am simply going to switch languages.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[Translation]I am sorry.Go ahead.DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1120)[Translation]With respect to the second submission, the House Administration replaced the organization's outdated enterprise resource planning systems with a more modern and sustainable client-focused platform that consolidates financial and human resource management. Implementing the HR management model resulted in significant changes to the business process and to the organization's practices, roles and responsibilities. Because of this, a core team was established to support the new platform, and the Human Resources Service Centre was created.The core team was created in January 2020. It manages the products, the system and the related maintenance support, in addition to the lifecycle of the new platform. The Human Resources Service Centre is a centre of expertise that brings together the many HR services and operations for members of Parliament, their employees and House Administration employees. The two teams were created from existing resources out of various House Administration teams, but a few new additional positions had to be created. To date, funding has been obtained through budget surpluses, but that solution is temporary and needs to be stabilized. To ensure funding for these essential positions, we are requesting permanent funding to support the teams over the longer term.As a result, funding of $866,000 is requested to support the four FTEs of the enterprise resource planning team and the five FTEs on the human resources team.That concludes my presentation. The other members of the management team and I are available to answer your questions.House of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Thank you.Are there any questions?Mr. Rodriguez, you have the floor.DanielPaquettePabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would just like to go back to the funding request of nearly $273,000 for the three full-time employees and the office rental service.It seems necessary, since you're asking for it, but three full-time employees to work in this department between two elections seems like a lot to me. I'd just like to understand the value of the service and how essential it could be between elections, since generally there are few transactions or changes.Could you tell us more about it?House of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1125)[Translation]Actually, the service was introduced several months after the last election and calls are still coming in, as it is a point of contact for members of Parliament in their constituency offices. The various leases contain somewhat special clauses, which sometimes require payment of shared fees and the annual calculation of changes in costs.We also have the renovations. It's important to ensure that the fees an owner can charge for needed renovations are fair. So one of the employees on this team has building renovation appraisal skills.Our calls have decreased since the election, but during the election campaign, we had six people managing this transition. We are down to three, and the calls and support continue. In addition, since we now have people well versed in understanding leases, we have employees who can help House Administration ensure that the right amounts are being paid. We realized that some of these clauses were more complex and, as a result, we even went back to recover expenses that had been overpaid or to pay expenses that had been forgotten.We have a few cases like these where service has continued. So, given the type of requests we have here, we feel that this team should be maintained, because there is as much demand for support from House Administration for these agreements as for members of Parliament.House of Commons administrationPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1125)[Translation]Thank you.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]I now give the floor to Mrs. DeBellefeuille.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1125)[Translation]I have something to say about point 4 of your request, that is, the full-time equivalent position for the Members' Orientation Program. I can tell you that this program is very important, as I myself first went through the orientation almost a year ago. However, I feel it would be appropriate to change the name of the program, because the individual who is going to join the team will be doing more than just orientation.The work actually involves ongoing training and support for the development of skills and knowledge for members and their staff, so that they are better supported in their work.Do you intend to do justice to your work by changing the name of the program, which is more than just an orientation program?House of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1125)[Translation]I can answer the question, if I may.Thank you for the question, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.The Members' Orientation Program is mandated to provide ongoing training. We could certainly look at the program name and review the description. It's not just about onboarding, as it provides ongoing training, development and so on. So I totally agree with you.House of Commons administrationClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1125)[Translation]Since a large number of people are watching us on television, could you describe some of the major ongoing training programs that you provide to members and their staff?House of Commons administrationMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1125)[Translation]I would ask Robyn Daigle, the director of these programs, to talk to you about them. I believe she is in a better position than I to give you more information. Ms. Daigle, if you would like to take the floor.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtRobynDaigleRobynDaigleRobyn-DaigleInterventionMs. Robyn Daigle (Director, Members HR Services, House of Commons): (1130)[Translation]Good morning.Thank you, Ms. Laframboise and Mrs. DeBellefeuille.These programs are more than just post-election orientation programs for members and their staff. They are also transition programs provided in the event of departure or resignation.As I said before, the programs are not only for members; they are also for their staff. A new program was introduced in September, in fact. As you know, we sometimes experience turnover in constituency offices or on the Hill, and this program helps to better integrate employees into their workplace.As for ongoing training, we have programs in workplace harassment prevention and workplace health and safety. For example, when we implemented the disclosure process, a lot of training was provided to members and their staff.Training is really provided on demand, but we also offer it when major programs are introduced or when legislation comes into force.House of Commons administrationMichelleLaframboiseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English] Go ahead, Mr. Richards.RobynDaigleBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1130)[English]Thank you.If I'm counting correctly, I think we're being asked for 12 new permanent positions here. My understanding is that in 2019 there was an approval here for 22 additional HR staff with a similar type of proposal. At that time, Ms. Daigle was asked about this, and she indicated, “If we ever came back to the board to either reduce or increase those resources, it would be with quite a rationale associated with it.” I guess I'm not entirely seeing the rationale. Obviously, when there's that kind of an increase and a year and a bit later we're looking for an additional increase, and it was indicated at that time there would be quite a rationale that would need to be associated with it, I'm just trying to understand what that rationale is. I'm not sure I'm entirely hearing that here.House of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[Translation]Ms. Laframboise, you have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1130)[Translation]Thank you.[English] Yes, last February there were 22 resources approved. Those resources were for overall services in human resources and not specific to occupational health and safety, which is one of the areas we are talking about today. Some of those resources were non-HR. There were a few finance and some legal assistants as well. Others were deployed within the HR team to a variety of functional areas. The remainder of them do form up the team that Ms. Daigle leads, which is member HR services. Over the last two years, so since that time.... In occupational health and safety, as you know, the changes to the legislation are quite significant. They are in two parts. The first part of it was the onboarding of the House and the members to the general labour code provisions. These included significant increases in reporting, tracking, monitoring, training, awareness, the creation of health and safety reps and so on. We've had COVID, of course, which has definitely brought forward the importance of health and safety as well. Now we continue to move forward with the second part of the bill, which is the changes for the harassment and violence in the workplace program and having them included into the health and safety framework. That in and of itself is also quite an endeavour. It requires significant modification to policies, processes and training to ensure that we all meet our obligations as employers. That second part of it is where the focus of these resources will be. We do have staff doing this work now on a temporary basis, but we definitely know that we're going to need those resources longer term to ensure that those obligations continue to be met. Occupational health and safety in and of itself has increased so significantly in complexity. We're not talking about only physical health anymore; we are including mental health issues. The worker safety boards and compensation organizations now are recognizing more of the mental health, anxiety and stress issues as well. It is quite a large basket of obligations. We want to make sure that we are fully positioned to support the members and the House in their obligations. House of Commons administrationAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]In terms of follow-up, you mentioned COVID and dealing with it as part of the rationale there. I understand it wasn't all of it. Certainly mental health issues were mentioned and other things. Obviously, coming out of COVID, I understand that those issues probably will increase. But you mentioned COVID as part of the rationale. We're talking about permanent positions here. You mentioned having already brought some on temporarily. I do understand why there would be a need for that during the pandemic, but if COVID is part of what we're responding to here, why would there be a requirement for those positions to become permanent? Why would they not remain temporary positions?House of Commons administrationMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelleLaframboiseMichelle-LaframboiseInterventionMs. Michelle Laframboise: (1135)[English]When I referred to COVID, it was more just sort of an understanding of the importance and complexity of occupational health and safety and where it's going as a function. You're right that there are some COVID pieces that might seem shorter term, but the anxiety and the mental health components that are resulting from COVID we will definitely be seeing long term. The other thing is that it really flagged for us the importance of being prepared, trained and set up, and having the infrastructure in place. I'm not saying they are COVID support positions. I'm saying that it absolutely flagged for us where we may have had some gaps, to make sure that we are able to meet any other challenges or health and safety issues that come forward. House of Commons administrationBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]Thank you. I appreciate the clarification. MichelleLaframboiseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Are there any other questions?[English]Seeing none,[Translation]We have two recommendations.Do you all agree?Let's continue.For the next two items on the agenda, no presentations are planned. You were sent two reports in advance.[English]The first one, under tab five, is the annual report on the activities and expenditures of parliamentary associations for 2019-20. The co-chairs of the Joint Interparliamentary Council sent a letter noting that the JIC adopted this report late last month and submitted it to the board for your information. It is in a form similar to reports for previous years. If there are any questions about the report itself, the clerk of the JIC is available today, or we can invite the House co-chair, Mr. Stanton, to appear at subsequent meetings. [Translation]Are there any questions?[English] Mr. Julian, go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdriePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1135)[Translation]I have no questions. For last year, it's very clear. For this year, I don't think we had any activities. Our activities on Parliament Hill were suspended as of March 13. I just want to know where there are any expenditures by parliamentary associations for this financial year, and to what an extent our costs were reduced. International and Interparliamentary AffairsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Clerk Assistant and Director General, International and Interparliamentary Affairs): (1135)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Julian.Yes, indeed, there has been a moratorium on association activities and travel since March, which means that expenditures for activities are essentially zero. With the income from membership fees, that is to say the dues that members must pay to belong to those associations, the account balance is even negative, in the sense that more came in than went out. However, from the envelope for the Joint Interparliamentary Council, or JIC, we have to pay fees to the international associations. To belong to the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, or APF, we have to pay annual fees. Those contributions are ongoing. Expenditures of about $400,000 have already been made to cover a part of those fees, which normally amount to about $1.4 million each year.International and Interparliamentary AffairsPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Are we good?JeremyLeBlancPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1135)[Translation]Yes. Thanks.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[Translation]Let's move on.[English] Mr. Richards, you are next.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]This summer, the board approved—and it was part of a package related to former Bill C-58 and the financial disclosure—an additional staff position that was associated with helping to process travel expenses for the associations. At that time, my predecessor in this role, Mr. Strahl, had expressed some reservations about that because, obviously, international travel was grounded at the time. Given that this has obviously continued to persist and probably will for some time to come, has the hiring for that position gone ahead, or is it delayed because there actually hasn't been a need for travel?C-58, An Act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the federal public administration for the financial year ending March 31, 2013International and Interparliamentary AffairsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1140)[English]Yes, we did staff that position, because there is a fair amount of preparatory work that is required in order to have us set-up to properly disclose, so all kinds of systems testing, processes to develop, templates of reports to be validated, and training to be given to various staff members. The resource that was hired has been occupied in doing that, even though there haven't been activities ongoing at the time.International and Interparliamentary AffairsBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English] Related to that, is the funding envelope for the interparliamentary associations approved as part of the annual budgeting process? This is something I'm not sure of. That is? Okay.I believe this would be at our next meeting for 2021, so it will be part of the discussions at that meeting. Is that right? Okay. There is one last thing I wanted to touch on. Later on our agenda we have an item regarding Ms. Ratansi. I understand she's been the president of the Canadian Branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. Is she still the president of that, or what's the situation there?International and Interparliamentary AffairsJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1140)[English]She is still the president of the Canadian Branch of the CPA, yes.International and Interparliamentary AffairsBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]I want to remind honourable members that when something is in camera, we don't normally refer to it. We can refer to the person unrelated to the agenda.JeremyLeBlancBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]My apologies. That's all I had.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Let's move on.[English]The next report is the committee activities annual report at tab six, which you have before you. There is a letter from the chair of the liaison committee, Ms. Sgro, who wishes to inform the board that the liaison committee recently adopted and presented to the House its latest annual report on committee activities and expenditures for the 2019-20 fiscal year.Ms. Sgro submitted a copy of the report to the board, and also indicated that she would be available to meet at a future date if the board so desires. [Translation]Pursuant to Standing Order 121(4),the Board of Internal Economy shall cause to be tabled in the House an annual comprehensive financial report outlining the individual expenditures of each committee. The established practice since 2014 has been for the Liaison Committee's annual report to be approved by the Board and tabled by the Chair in order to comply with the requirements of the Standing Order. Consequently, if all members are in agreement, I will submit the report as attached to the House as the Board's report, pursuant to the Standing Order.Are there any questions or comments about the report or the process?Shall I report it to the House?Since there are no questions, all is in order.We will continue the meeting in camera. We will take a few minutes to prepare.Mr. Richards, the floor is yours.Committee Activities and Expenditures, April 1, 2018 - March 31, 2019Committee Activities and Expenditures, April 1, 2019 - March 31, 2020BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English] With regard to the committee activities, I do have a couple of quick questions.I didn't realize you were moving on quite as quickly as you were. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Very good. Please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]With regard to the reporting, a decade or two ago, I understand we used to just see reports that were 10 pages long, apparently. Now it's a 139-page report.Obviously, I'm not one to necessarily criticize more accountability by any means, but I'm just curious. Obviously, there's a lot of work that goes into creating those reports. Do we have any statistics on the readership of those reports? Committee Activities and Expenditures, April 1, 2019 - March 31, 2020AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Mr. Janse, do you have an answer? Are you responding to this?BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Legislative Services Directorate, House of Commons): (1140)[English] Yes, I'm responding, but I'm not quite sure I have an answer, Mr. Richards, in terms of the readership. You are absolutely right, though, that the report has evolved considerably over the last few years. It used to be just done once a year. Now there are two other reports done mid-year and, indeed, the content of the report is considerably beefed up compared to the past with a lot more information, statistics, etc., included.I can try to see with perhaps our IT folks how many hits these reports receive on the parliamentary website. Years ago we stopped producing any paper copies, so it's hard to tell how many are distributed, but we can look into your question.Committee Activities and Expenditures, April 1, 2019 - March 31, 2020AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1145)[English]That would be appreciated. That would be good to know. I understand that things are mostly on the web now. I'm sure statistics should be easy to come by as a result of that web readership.I have one other thing, just quickly. I wonder if we have any insight into the current year and how expenses are shaping up there. Obviously, a lot of things should have brought those expenses down, I would suspect, this year. First of all, during the first wave of the pandemic, the Liberal government essentially barred most of the committees from meeting. Then Parliament was prorogued for a time. Now, while committees are meeting, first of all they were sort of reduced. Now we are near full capacity. They are still practically all meeting by video conference, and I guess we expect that to continue for some time to come.I am wondering if we have any analysis at this point of what kind of impact that's had on spending.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1145)[English]That's an excellent question, Mr. Richards.Indeed, committees, certainly for the last little bit, have been quite active, with a good number of meetings and lots of witnesses being heard, but further to the motion that was adopted in the House, all witnesses are being heard virtually, so that obviously has an impact on witness expenses. We're not reimbursing witnesses to fly them to Ottawa, and the bulk of committee expenses are, of course, when the committees themselves travel either within Canada or abroad. Of course, no committee travel has taken place since April 1, so the costs are very minimal. There is some reimbursement of some witness expenses. For instance, we send out headsets to all witnesses to facilitate their participation and to make things easier for the interpreters, but there are very minimal expenses to date.Virtual ParliamentBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1145)[English] Okay.Thank you.EricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Richards.Mr. Deltell, the floor is yours.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Commons): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you very much, Mr. Janse.I will stay with the same subject.As you said yourself, there are almost no expenditures. If we count the number of headsets that have been sent, the cost probably comes to less than $100. That's a very modest expenditure.Could you compare the committee expenditures in a so-called normal year, after an election, to the expenditures this year?That would give us a figure showing how much has not been spent and an idea of what could be spent elsewhere from the amounts that have been saved.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1145)[Translation]Those are excellent questions, Mr. Deltell.The envelope for all the committees is $4 million. In a so-called normal year, we spend between $2 million and $2.5 million. Last year was an election year and we also saw the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. As the report before you shows, only $700,000 were spent.However, last year, the Board of Internal Economy passed a motion according to which $1.5 million of the anticipated surplus for the financial year would be used to fund an online broadcasting system for parliamentary committees. That was done. This is why the amount of $1.5 million comes from the $4 million, but the committee expenditures as such come to only $700,000 for last year.As I said to Mr. Richards, we really have not spent a lot of money this year. We can try to have a more specific figure, but, unless things change all of a sudden and the committees resume their activities at a more normal pace, we should actually have quite a considerable surplus in the committee budgets when March 31 comes along.Virtual ParliamentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1145)[Translation]You may continue, Mr. Deltell.EricJanseGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1145)[Translation]Mr. Janse, we are talking about 24 committees with a budget of $4 million. However, you are telling us that, year in year out, we spend about $2.5 million. With a quick calculation, I can see that we are talking about almost $60 million in total. You said that we have spent $700,000 and $1.5 million for the broadcasting system.If I subtract the $700,000 and the $1.5 million from the total, would I be out of line to conclude that we have not spent $57.8 million because of the pandemic?Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1150)[Translation]The reduced expenditures last year were actually because of the election, because the pandemic began only in mid-March and the financial year ended on March 31. This year, certainly, committees are not travelling because of the pandemic. So the committees really have no significant expenditures.Virtual ParliamentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1150)[Translation]Going by the normal figures, we have not spent $57.8 million.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1150)[Translation]Excuse me, Mr. Deltell. Could you repeat that, please?GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1150)[Translation]You told us that the committees spend $2.5 million, year in and year out. There are 24 committees, so we are spending about $60 million on committees.Virtual ParliamentEricJanseAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[Translation]Excuse me, Mr. Deltell, Mr. Patrice would like to answer that.Virtual ParliamentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1150)[Translation]I just like to make it clear that the total envelope is $4 million. That's the budget for all committees.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1150)[Translation]Great. That's what I was thinking. I thought it was a little excessive. Thank you, Mr. Patrice.Virtual ParliamentMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[Translation]You have the floor, Mrs. DeBellefeuille.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1150)[Translation]I would like to speak to Mr. Janse. However, before I do, I would like to clarify something.Mr. Richards said that the committees are virtual. Actually, they are hybrid. This was a very significant request and I feel that it is good to tell the public about it. Members of Parliament can be physically present in rooms arranged for that purpose. However, they can also participate remotely through videoconference platforms. I don't want people to understand that the committees are being held entirely by videoconference. More and more, members of Parliament prefer to be physically present, while still observing health rules. I wanted to clarify that.What caught my attention in your testimony is that you mentioned that one of the expenditures was to send headsets to all the witnesses. I don't want to cast doubt on that statement, but I can tell you that, we in the Bloc Québécois are experiencing a lot of difficulties. Some witnesses have no headsets and that limits the interpretation. I have no statistics and I will not ask you to provide us with any, but I believe that it is fair to say that 90% of the witnesses give their testimony in English. That means that the witnesses need interpretation. In a lot of cases, and we in the Bloc Québécois have documented it fairly well, we have problems because the witnesses do not have the necessary equipment.I understand that it is difficult for the witnesses to receive them, because often, they are invited at the last minute. The fact remains that witnesses having no access to the equipment that they need and that would provide them with good interpretation, is still a major problem. In that sense, Mr. Janse, I can tell you that francophone members feel some discrimination. The fact that witnesses do not understand the interpretation in their own language means that important seconds are lost, during which members could be asking questions.I am talking about members of the Bloc, but there are also other French-speaking members in other parties. All this is to tell you that I thought that the expenditure on headsets was the responsibility of the IT team, headed by Mr. Aubé, not of the committees. That's something I learned today. I therefore want you to make you aware that there is a real problem. I hope that, in the short term, all witnesses will have the equipment they need for adequate interpretation, which will allow francophone members who need the interpretation to participate more fully.Virtual ParliamentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingEricJanseEricJanseEric-JanseInterventionMr. Eric Janse: (1150)[Translation]Those are good comments, Mrs. DeBellefeuille. Thank you.Yes, the committees are meeting as hybrids. However, following the motion passed by the House on September 23, all witnesses must testify virtually. We do indeed try as much as possible to send headsets to all the witnesses who need them. As you so rightly pointed out, if a witness is invited at the last moment, it is simply not possible, even with the process we have established to send them by private couriers. That process allows us to send headsets to about 90% of the locations in the country in 24 to 48 hours. Yes, it does happen that we may not be able to send headsets before the meeting. Your comments are duly noted.Virtual ParliamentClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[Translation]Thank you.Are there any further questions or comments?As there are none, do you agree that I should submit this report to the House?Voices: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: Agreed.We will continue the meeting in camera. So we will take a few minutes to move a little and to make sure that everything is in place.[Proceedings continue in camera.]EricJanse//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0092nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, October 22, 2020Le jeudi 22 octobre 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTOctober 22, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 009NUMBER 009NUMÉRO 009009221020202020/10/22 11:20:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1115)[Translation] Welcome to the ninth meeting of the Board of Internal Economy in the 43rd Parliament.We will begin with the first item, the adoption of the previous meeting's minutes.Are there any comments? Is this agreed to?Okay, it has been agreed to.[English] We'll go on to item two, business arising from the previous meeting. Are there any items? No. That's good.Now we'll go on to item three, the 2019-20 audited financial statements.We're going to start with Daniel Paquette, the chief financial officer, who is accompanied by José Fernandez, the deputy chief financial officer; and from KPMG, Charly Thivierge-Lortie, audit senior manager, and Andrew Newman, audit partner.[Translation]Mr. Paquette, go ahead.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1115)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I'm here today to present to you the audited financial statements for the House of Commons for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2020. These audited financial statements are prepared by the House administration and present only one of our financial reports that we bring to the board to help you in your role of oversight of House financial activities. They are a formal record of our House financial activities for the financial positions as they were as of March 31, 2020. As part of the financial reporting cycle, you'll recall that last June I provided you with a year-end financial report for the fiscal year 2019-20. The purpose of the report was to present the detailed comparators between the spending and the spending authorities for 2019-20 with those of 2018-19. Today we are looking at the 2019-20 audited financial statements. These audited financial statements are prepared using the accrual basis of accounting rather than the expenditure basis. This means that they reflect the effect of a transaction in an event in the period in which it occurs rather than in the period in which the appropriations are used. Some of the main differences you'll be noting as a result of this is that the net cost of operations include the services we've received without charge—that is, the cost of the buildings we occupy and the employer's share of the employee benefits. You will also note that the inclusion of a statement of financial positions includes inventory, capital assets and amortization, liabilities for employee benefits as well as the liabilities for vacation pay and compensatory leave.The House of Commons financial statements were prepared in accordance with the Canadian public sector accounting standards. Also, as you'll hear in the next presentation, each year these financial statements are audited by an external independent auditor, currently KPMG.This year, as for as long as we've had our financial statements audited, we've received an unqualified audit opinion. To me this is a testament to the efforts made by my team to ensure the systems and practices are in place to ensure reliable financial information is available for decision-making in all our financial reporting.(1120)[Translation]I would like to take a few minutes to talk about the highlights regarding financial statements.The statement of financial position provides an overview of the House of Commons' asset and liability balances.The assets, in the amount of $89 million on March 31, mainly consist of funding provided to the House to support its activities; receivables, which mainly consist of money to be collected from departments, agencies and other federal parliamentary institutions to which the House provides support; as well as capital assets, namely assets whose purchase price exceeds $10,000. On March 31, 2020, the House's liability was $84 million. That mainly includes amounts payable to suppliers and employees' social benefits. The budget item that has changed the most is that of accounts payable and accrued liabilities. That increase is attributable to a longer period during which normal wages were incurred but unpaid, compared with the previous year. There is also the 2018-19 retroactive economic increase for employees, which was approved before March 31, but paid only the following year.Let's now go to the statement of operations and the net financial position.Our net operating costs have increased by about $10.5 million. Those costs fluctuate from year to year depending on various factors, such as different initiatives presented in the House of Commons administration's strategic plan 2019-22. As we mentioned in other reports, those initiatives include investments for computer and printing equipment renewal in constituency offices, additional resources for services for members as employers, and costs stemming from an election year.I will not spend a lot of time explaining the different significant differences in the net operating costs, as they are the same as those we discussed in June, when we presented the financial report on the year-end results.It should be noted that many of those differences are due to the fact that 2019-20 was an election year. That mainly led to an increase in wages and social benefits of the teams who supported the transition, as well as severance payments for members and their employees. There is also an increase under the budget item related to computer and office equipment owing to the computer equipment renewal done during an election. However, there is a decrease in travel costs, which come under the transportation and communications budget item.Those financial statements will be published on the website today, following the meeting.I will now yield the floor to the KPMG representatives, our auditor, so that they can present the result of their audit on those financial statements. I could answer questions after their presentation. [English] Andrew, I'll hand it over to you.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrew-NewmanInterventionMr. Andrew Newman (Audit Partner, KPMG): (1120)[English] Thank you.I am Andrew Newman, the independent external auditor of the House of Commons. I am pleased to introduce as well my colleague Charly Thivierge-Lortie, the senior manager responsible for the financial statements of the House of Commons.Mr. Paquette has just presented the financial statements of the House for the year ended March 31, 2020. My role here today is to confirm my independent audit opinion on these financial statements, as well as to provide the members with a summary of our findings resulting from our audit.Our audit opinion is attached to the financial statements presented by Mr. Paquette. Our audit was performed under Canadian generally accepted auditing standards, which are the professional standards followed for all financial statement audits in Canada. The financial statements are prepared using public sector accounting standards, which are the standards used by all governments in Canada and are issued by the Public Sector Accounting Board of Canada, on which I have had the privilege to serve for the past 12 years, including six years as vice-chair.Our audit opinion, which is on the first page of our auditor's report, states:In our opinion, the accompanying financial statements present fairly, in all material respects, the financial position of the [House of Commons] as at March 31, 2020, and its results of operations, its accumulated surplus and its cash flows for the year then ended in accordance with Canadian public sector accounting standards.Our auditor's report is signed “KPMG LLP” and dated August 11, 2020.Members, this is a clean, unmodified audit opinion that members of Parliament should expect their financial management team to achieve. We have also provided to the members of the board an audit findings report. In summary, our financial statement audit was fundamentally completed as planned. The pandemic required that our detailed audit procedures be performed in a virtual, secure environment, and that was achieved. I do want to thank the House of Commons administration team for their additional efforts and commitment to the audit process to make a virtual audit not only possible but relatively smooth.During our audit, we did not identify any audit adjustments in the amounts recorded in the books and records and reported in the House financial statements. What this means is that the financial reports prepared by management prior to the audit did not change as a result of our audit. During our audit, we also did not identify any internal control deficiencies that we determined to be significant deficiencies in internal control over financial reporting. We have provided recommendations for improvements to management with respect to certain payroll processes, primarily around the documentation of the performance of certain procedures. Management agreed with our recommendations and are currently working to implement those improvements. We will review their progress during our 2021 financial statement audit.Members, in short, this is a positive audit report. I would like to thank House management once again for their diligent participation in the audit process, and thank this board for finding the time in your busy agenda for the financial statements and audit results to be presented. This is an important aspect of governance for all organizations, particularly in the public forum that you work in every day.I would welcome questions, if the members have any.Thank you.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Are there any questions?[English]Seeing none, we'll move on to the next section—AndrewNewmanPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1125)[English]Excuse me, Mr. Chair.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]Mr. Julian, please go ahead. I'm sorry, I didn't see you.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]I raised my hand, and then I used the “raise hand” function. We're still dealing with the new virtual environment, which is really my question.I think it's reassuring that you didn't find any deficiencies in the audit, and no adjustments. What I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about is how you were able to achieve a full audit in a virtual, secure environment. Of course, the information needed to be secure. This is quite a different environment for this kind of audit procedure. I think it would be interesting to have a brief summary, I guess, of some of the measures that needed to be taken to perform an audit in this kind of environment.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrew-NewmanInterventionMr. Andrew Newman: (1125)[English]I presume that is for me.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1125)[English]Yes.AndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrew-NewmanInterventionMr. Andrew Newman: (1125)[English] The world certainly changed for auditors in all sorts of financial audit statements when the pandemic hit in mid-March, and audits went from on-site services to virtual services, really across the board and across Canada. As a firm, KPMG had put in the protocols around working virtually and having our teams fundamentally work from home.From an aspect of security of information, we worked very diligently with your team, and certainly Mr. Paquette can speak to the security aspects of information from their side. From our side, KPMG in Ottawa is a secure federal government office. We are audited by PSPC not only on an annual but also an ad hoc basis with regard to that, including our IT systems and our ways to communicate between offices. We use that. We had that security already pre-defined and we use it to transfer information between the House and KPMG to protect it appropriately.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]We will now go to Mr. Richards.AndrewNewmanBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1130)[English]Thank you.I wonder, Mr. Newman, if you could just explain to us this issue that was related to the payroll documentation and maybe just what that concern was. You or maybe the administration would need to give us this, but what is being done to remedy the situation there?Financial statementsHouse of CommonsAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrew-NewmanInterventionMr. Andrew Newman: (1130)[English]Thank you for the question. I welcome this opportunity to assure the members that the issue isn't around people being paid the wrong amount or that employees were being improperly paid or anything. It revolves around the documentation of certain reviews and approvals within the employee file itself.We identified this as we changed our approach a little bit with regard to the Phoenix pay system and went from what is called a “substantive approach”, where we picked a sample and looked at it, and moved to a controls-based approach, where we looked at the controls around the House to really assess why the House was getting pretty good results around employees' pay.We looked at the controls and the processes. In that, we identified, again, recommendations for improvements. These aren't significant control deficiencies around consistency and documentation of the performance of procedures within the employee file. It's not that the procedures were not performed. It was just documenting them in the employee file so that when auditors like us come in there is evidence that those procedures were completed.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Okay.You mentioned that you made recommendations for improvement. How do those recommendations get brought forward and what is done to follow up on those recommendations to make sure they are being put in place?Financial statementsHouse of CommonsAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrewNewmanAndrew-NewmanInterventionMr. Andrew Newman: (1130)[English]Absolutely. Those recommendations are brought forward in a formal letter from us to management, and management has agreed with all of our recommendations. I want to emphasize that.Management gets an opportunity, obviously, to work at and implement those recommendations, and they have committed to do so. Then, when we come back to do our audit for 2020-21, we will look to make sure our recommendations have been appropriately implemented and that those issues have been resolved. If not, it would be accelerated into a significant deficiency and the comptroller of this committee would see it next year.Financial statementsHouse of CommonsBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1130)[English]Thank you.AndrewNewmanAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]Very good. Are there any further questions?Okay. That being established, maybe we'll move on.Thank you, Mr. Paquette, Mr. Fernandez, Monsieur Newman and Madame Thivierge-Lortie.I understand that it is normal and good governance practice for independent auditors to have a discussion in camera with board members, without management present, regarding the preparation of the year-end audited financial statements.I would therefore like to propose to the board members that we hold a short in camera session without the House administration officials to allow board members to have this discussion. Do I have the acceptance of members to proceed to in camera? Yes? Okay.Thank you. What we will do is take a short break to transition into in camera. At this time, I will ask the House administration officials to exit the room, both in person and virtually. Once this discussion is complete, those in person will be summoned back into the room and those virtually will receive an email summoning them to rejoin the room as well.[Proceedings continue in camera]Financial statementsHouse of CommonsBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0082nd SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTThursday, October 8, 2020Le jeudi 8 octobre 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTOctober 8, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 008NUMBER 008NUMÉRO 008008081020202020/10/08 11:20:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE243AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1115)[Translation]Now that everyone's here and we're all connected, let's get started.[English] Before starting, I want to welcome our new members. Mr. Richards, welcome.[Translation] Welcome, Mr. Deltell.[English]We'll go through the previous minutes. Are there any changes to be made? Is everything good and acceptable?[Translation]It's ready to go.[English]We'll go on to item 2, business arising from previous minutes. Is there anything coming up from business?PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1115)[Translation]Mr. LeBlanc, can you hear me?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc (President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada): (1115)[Translation]Yes.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1115)[Translation]Comb your hair, would you?DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc: (1115)[Translation]My problem, Mr. Rodriguez, is I don't have 10 bottles of hairspray like you. This being Mr. Deltell's first meeting, we should tell him that, in Quebec, it's the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec that pays for hairspray, since it's considered an innovation.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]It's too bad he doesn't have his mask on. I'm talking about Mr. LeBlanc, not Mr. Deltell. Let's carry on.DominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourDominicLeBlancHon.Beauséjour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1813DominicLeBlancHon.Dominic-LeBlancBeauséjourLiberal CaucusNew Brunswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/LeblancDominic_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Dominic LeBlanc: (1115)[English]You walked right into that, Mr. Chair.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1115)[Translation]Mr. LeBlanc, we're moving on.[English]Item 3 is ratification of a walkaround. Everybody had a chance to vote.[Translation]Was everyone able to vote all right? There didn't seem to be any problems.[English]Now we have a report.... To the Conservatives, you have two new members. Mr. Richards, can I get your attention for a second? For the Conservatives, you have two new people. Do you have an official spokesman whom you would like to name to replace Mr. Strahl?Board of Internal Economy MemberBoard of Internal Economy SpokespersonRichards, BlakeDominicLeBlancHon.BeauséjourBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards (Chief Opposition Whip): (1120)[English]I think I reluctantly agreed to be the spokesman.Board of Internal Economy MemberBoard of Internal Economy SpokespersonAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1120)[English]Thank you. Mr. Richards will be the official spokesman for the Conservative Party. Now we're on to number 4. We have a presentation by Mr. Stanton from the working group on the Centre Block.Go ahead, Mr. Stanton.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton (Chair, Working Group on the LTVP and the Centre Block Rehabilitation): (1120)[Translation]Good morning, Mr. Chair. Thank you.Fellow members, good morning.I'm here today as chair of the working group on the long term vision and plan, or LTVP, to update the board on the work that's been done since our last meeting and to seek endorsement of our recommendation regarding parliamentarians' involvement in the jury for the architectural design competition being organized by Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, for the redevelopment of Block 2.Before I discuss the recommendation regarding Block 2, I'd like to provide a brief update on our last meeting, which was held on August 13.First, PSPC presented its public engagement strategy for the LTVP, encompassing the development and launch of a public survey. The working group is in overall agreement on the proposed strategy to engage Canadians on Parliament and asked PSPC to get back to the group with more detailed information.Second, the House of Commons administration presented high-level options for the Parliament Welcome Centre entrance and answered questions. Stakeholders will need to review the options in detail, and the working group will continue to be involved in the review before making a recommendation to the board.[English] Next is the third item we dealt with. We heard from the House with respect to updates and had some schematic designs and proposals for the chamber, lobbies and galleries in Centre Block. PSPC answered some questions around that. There will be further discussions at our next meeting with regard to lobbies and galleries. Once we've had a chance to look at those a little further, we'll be back to the board with some recommendations and something more detailed for you to look at.As a final point before I get into the issue of Block 2, all members of the working group have now received complete detailed briefings on the schematic designs for the entirety of Centre Block and the welcome centre. We're looking forward to having further discussions on how the parliamentary requirements fit into all that. I would say that after two meetings, we're making some great progress and we're anticipating getting back together later this month. After we see what comes from that, we'll have some further things for you to discuss.The only real issue on which we need to hear from you today is with respect to a design competition. What's happening here is that the PSPC briefed the working group on their approach to procuring an architectural design consultant team for the Block 2 new buildings, which will accommodate parliamentary space in the future.Now, you may not know where Block 2 is. We didn't either. That's the space bound by Wellington Street, Sparks Street, Metcalfe Street and O'Connor Street. It's immediately across Wellington Street from Centre Block. Currently in the planning phase for this Block 2, PSPC is proceeding with a competitive process—it's a major undertaking—and launching an architectural design competition for that. It's a competition that will allow them to choose a team that has the right kind of capability and that is appropriate for a project of this scale and significance.PSPC has also brought in the Royal Architectural Institute of Canada, RAIC, to oversee this competition process. I'm sure their role will be greatly valued. The institute and PSPC will together select an independent qualified professional jury for this competition process. The jury will look at all of the proposals submitted and will come down to first-, second- and third-place proposals. As part of that jury composition, the working group was pitched the idea of having parliamentarian participation in that jury process. We looked at three different scenarios as to how that might work. After some discussion, it was agreed that the working group recommend to you that in relation to this whole process, the chair of the working group—I, in this case—be designated as a juror representing the House of Commons in that jury process.That's really what you have in front of you today. The idea was to make sure we have continuity with parliamentarian voices through the working group and into that process for Block 2. I'm therefore seeking your approval that in relation to this design competition for Block 2, the chair of the working group be designated as the juror representing the House of Commons.(1125)[Translation]I would be pleased to answer any questions you have and to provide more details on what I've just discussed.Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliament Hill Visitor Welcome CentreParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[Translation]Thank you.I believe Mr. Julian has a question for Mr. Stanton. I'm starting a list, so let me know if you have a question.Mr. Julian, you may go ahead.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Stanton, thank you very much for the report.Of course, I'm in favour of designating the chair of the working group to sit on the jury.[English]The coronavirus has had an impact on a lot of projects across the country, so I'm wondering if there are any updated figures that you could give us or if you can let us know when you think the working group would be able to do that.Thank you.My question is very simple: Are there any updated budget figures around the overall projects? Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[English]Thank you, Mr. Julian.I think we didn't get into budget elements with respect to Block 2. I will look to Michel Patrice. He may have some insights on it that he could share with us. At this point we were only taken up with the proposals around a design competition. As you may well know, this is part of a much more long-term.... So many of these parts of the long-term vision plan are so integrated that these things do come before us as a working group as well.Michel, I wonder if you have any further insights that we could share with Mr. Julian on that question.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]Michel has indicated that Mr. Gameiro would be—BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1125)[English]Okay, go ahead, Rocque.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1125)[English]—best suited to answer that question. Rocque Gameiro, if you're online, you can take it from here.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright (Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC)): (1125)[English] It's Rob Wright here with PSPC. Maybe I'll jump [Inaudible—Editor] information. With regard to costing of the Centre Block and Parliament's welcome centre, what we have done so far is to provide some cost estimates for different options around specific large components of the project. If you remember the decisions around the chamber and different options around the chamber, we provided costing around different options for that, as well as different size options for the welcome centre. On some specific options around elements that the Senate of Canada is considering with regard to potential infills in the east courtyard, for example, we gave different costings around that. Those elements are now coming together, and as we move forward through the areas....Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliament Hill Visitor Welcome CentreParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Wright. Would you go back? I'm not sure if you muted yourself. It doesn't show that you're muted, but we lost your voice.RobWrightRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1130)[English]I apologize. Are you able to hear me okay now?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]We hear you very faintly.RobWrightRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1130)[English]I'm not muted. If I really speak up here, is that any better?AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]It's still not loud enough. We can just barely hear your voice. I'm not sure what just happened there.RobWrightRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1130)[English]Well, I could hand it over to—AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English]You're fine now; it's perfect. You can continue.RobWrightRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1130)[English]Okay, great.We're coming at this in what I would call component parts. As we're moving through the decisions and the options that are being put forward to Parliament, those decisions are kind of big boulders that have a really material impact on the baseline cost for the Centre Block and the welcome centre. As we proceed through those this fall, we'll be able to come back with a baseline budget as well as a schedule. That will set us up in a really good situation.As for the impacts of the COVID situation on the Centre Block, I think we've been able to absorb those really well. At the beginning of COVID in mid-March, we worked really hard to put in place what I would call best health and safety practices on the site. We worked with the Canadian Construction Association, and those became best practices for construction activity across the country. I would say that we had to make a few adjustments, but it really has not impacted the schedule, as we've been able to move forward. From a cost perspective, that is probably the most important element on a project of this scale. Time is money, so being able to adhere to the schedule has benefited us very much from a budgetary perspective. We've been able to keep track and hit all of the milestones, and as we continue to work with the working group and the Senate LTVP subcommittee on these major decisions that will be recommended back to the Board of Internal Economy as well as to CIBA, that will position us to have a baseline budget and schedule.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliament Hill Visitor Welcome CentreParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1130)[Translation]Pardon me.RobWrightAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1130)[English] Would you like a follow-up on that, Mr. Julian?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1130)[English]When do you think you will be able to bring that to the BOIE?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1130)[English]As soon as the board makes some of these final determinations on the options, we will be able to come back with the budget. It's important to note that there are thousands of decisions that form the scope for this project, but even a handful can swing the project price in hundreds of millions of dollars. It will be difficult to come back to you with a budget without having inputs on those decisions. They have a tremendous impact on the budget. On the size of the Chamber, we have that. That was an important decision. On the size of the parliamentary welcome centre, we have that. That was an extremely important decision. There are probably another 10 to 15 critical decisions that will really allow us to have a base. There will be more decisions to come. Once we have those big boulder decisions behind us, we'll be able to establish that baseline budget. Our hope would be to move through that by the Christmastime period.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English]Mr. Stanton is next, and then Mr. Richards.RobWrightBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I'm sorry that I missed that critical element of Mr. Julian's question pertaining to expenses. My sound actually gapped there for a few seconds. My apologies for not zoning in on the expenses related to Centre Block. It was not to Block 2. My apologies.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1135)[English] Very good. Now we'll go to Mr. Richards.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]I had some questions similar to Mr. Julian's, but I'll add a couple of brief questions.With regard to the recommendations in terms of the design for the chamber, etc., will those recommendations include various seating options? Will there be scenarios for various seating options? Will there be one that's brought forward? Will it have that kind of detail? Will seating options be included as part of those recommendations?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1135)[English]Mr. Richards, our first look at this was very preliminary. We looked at different options extending out to 2050. The notions around this planning, especially for galleries and space for members in the galleries in the House itself, are all impacted by the trajectory of population growth and therefore the growth in the number of parliamentarians as well, over literally decades. We just had a first look at that.You may know that a while back the decision was taken to ensure that the footprint of the House of Commons chamber itself would not be changed. We're going to stay with the existing footprint that's there. Once the working group has had some further discussion on this, we will bring it back to the board with suggestions. We'll see what the working group decides, but we'll bring our best suggestions and we'll let the board take a look at it at that time.Suffice it to say that as we go forward, the demands and requirements on this space are certainly going to increase.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1135)[English]I would like to follow up on that.Is the understanding that you're going to bring forward one recommendation instead of a set of options? Is that the intention? I also understood that it was indicated in March that the board really wanted to see the chamber remain as close as it is to its current format. Perhaps you can answer both of those in concert.Also, I'll just throw one more in and let you answer all three.In terms of the galleries themselves, is there contemplation to ensuring they are more secure? Obviously, we've seen things dropped over, and things like that in the past. Is there thought being given to how those will look going forward?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctRobWrightBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1135)[English] On the last point on security, we didn't deal specifically with that point. I think it's certainly a valid one. We did look at some comparisons in terms of the size of the gallery in relation to the number of members in the chamber, and certainly Canada was blessed as we were in the old House of Commons, in Centre Block House of Commons. We had considerably higher numbers of gallery visitors than many other chambers in the Westminster system. Going forward, certainly there will likely be impacts there. You're right about one of your three points, exactly right. The current footprint of the chambers in terms of the beautiful Gothic revival design and structure is all going to stay put. We have to work within the confines of that existing footprint. As we look at accommodating more members, it has to be done in favour of a layout that will be in keeping with this board's direction around.... Of course, the ideal preference was to continue with the centre aisle and have government and opposition members opposing one another across that common aisle. That was a preference that has been expressed to our working group, and we'll certainly keep that in mind. As to whether we'll have just one recommendation for you, I honestly don't feel comfortable speaking for the working group at this early stage. I'm taking a cue from your comments. I suggest that we might want to consider more than one. I'll certainly be guided by the working group and what we think is probably our best preference, but leave open.... I think this is an area that obviously needs vigorous discussion and consideration. We want to make sure we get this right. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1140)[English]Thank you.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[English]Are there any other...?[Translation]Mr. Deltell, please go ahead.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, Mr. Stanton.It's always nice to talk to you, in any circumstance, but this is a first for me.I think I know the answer, but I'm wondering whether we could safely have a guided tour of the Centre Block to see the work under way.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]Mr. Stanton, go ahead.GérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Deltell. Welcome to the Board of Internal Economy.All the working group members toured the Centre Block. For the time being, we aren't planning another tour, but I think it's a good idea. We'll look into arranging one for the members of the board, if possible, in the coming weeks or months.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1140)[Translation]We'll look into that, then, and try to arrange another tour, in the hope that everyone is available. I know it's worthwhile to see the work that's happening.Are there any other questions?[English]Mr. Stanton was seeking approval from the board in relation to the architectural design competition for Block 2 and to the chair of the working group, Mr. Stanton, being designated as the juror representing the House of Commons. Is everyone in favour of that?Good. It's unanimous. Congratulations or condolences, Mr. Stanton; I'm not sure which, but I'm sure you'll do an excellent job.[Translation]We'll now move on to item 5, the 48th annual session of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, taking place in Montreal from July 7 to 12, 2022.Once again, it's over to you, Mr. Stanton.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1140)[Translation]Once again, thank you, Mr. Chair.Before I begin, I'd like to thank Francis Drouin, chair of the Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie, or APF, for joining me today. He'll be giving a detailed presentation on the request before you to have the Parliament of Canada host the 48th annual session of the APF. I should point out that the Joint Interparliamentary Council, or JIC, examined the proposal at its July 15, 2020 meeting.[English] As with all of these international conference requests, the Joint Interparliamentary Council, the JIC, is somewhat limited in the role that we have in reviewing these requests for international conferences. For us, it comes down to ensuring that there are no conflicts with the resources that International and Interparliamentary Affairs has in terms of providing the appropriate support. We realize that of course the spending authority for these conferences rests with you, and with CIBA on the Senate side. However, we still take the occasion of these requests—as has come from APF in this case—to discuss some of the issues around that conference.In this case, we talked about the challenges involved with doing a large-scale event of this nature in the era of the COVID-19 global pandemic. Admittedly, the conference is intended for July of 2022, but nonetheless we have no clear idea as to what conditions may prevail at that time. To that end, we had a discussion and gave direction in terms of the planning for this conference that due to the uncertainties around COVID-19, they be prepared to consider revising the format and to changing the format to a virtual or partially virtual format if they're faced with those kinds of restrictions in 2022. The council also recommended that the conference planners ensure that things like contracts for hotels, conference space, AV, interpretation and transportation have the appropriate escape clauses for force majeure, exit clauses that will help them have contracts in place that can be modified should those situations prevail.All of us on the JIC, to a person, stand behind the necessity of ensuring that Canada stays engaged and involved in interparliamentary work, even in a time of pandemic. We also noted—and, members of council, I should note to you—that we were satisfied that the approach APF took to their budget proposals was certainly in line with the usual practices and parameters that JIC considers for conferences of this type.(1145)[Translation]Therefore, it was agreed that the proposal be submitted to the Board of Internal Economy and the Standing Senate Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.I will now turn the floor over to my colleague Mr. Drouin.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin (Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, Lib.): (1145)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Stanton.As Mr. Stanton mentioned, I am here today to formally request that the Parliament of Canada host the 48th annual session of the APF. At its May 7 meeting, the executive committee of the Canadian Branch of the APF adopted a motion recommending that the JIC study the matter. As Mr. Stanton pointed out, at its July 15 meeting, the JIC studied the proposal and recommended that it be submitted to you and the Standing Senate Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration for study.If the Board of Internal Economy and the Senate committee approve the request, it will be the third time the Canadian Branch of the APF hosts the annual session in 25 years. The Canadian Branch has hosted the annual session every time it has held the international presidency, usually on an eight-year rotation, and the Canadian Branch will hold the presidency from July 2022 to July 2024.The members of the board should know that this is not the result of Canada volunteering to host the annual session. The responsibility of hosting merely rotates every eight years, and Canada must assume its role in parliamentary diplomacy.The annual session of the APF draws between 350 and 500 delegates each year, giving Canada an opportunity to showcase its leadership within the Francophonie. Internationally, the Canadian Branch promotes Canada's parliamentary expertise at every level of the APF and plays a leadership role. International parliamentarians often seek out our expertise to successfully complete major projects and ask us to assist with seminars, debates and training.The Canadian Branch also fulfills numerous key roles within the APF, including chairing the Parliamentary Affairs Committee and holding five rapporteur positions, helping to highlight Canada's priorities in relation to important issues such as cyber-violence against women and children, cooperation to address climate change and youth parliamentary involvement.In terms of scheduling, the annual session always begins on a Thursday and ends the following Tuesday, at the end of the day. Consequently, the provisional dates for the annual session are July 7 to 12, 2022. The conference will have multiple parts: a Bureau meeting; an APF session, including meetings of the women's network, the young parliamentarians' network, the four committees and the plenary assembly; the accompanying persons program; and the Ordre de la Pléiade award ceremony.The budget estimate before you has been studied and approved by the Canadian Branch of the APF and by the JIC. Every effort has been made to keep costs low, and everything possible will be done to protect the Parliament of Canada against the risks associated with holding an event during the COVID-19 pandemic.We are recommending that the funding be shared according to the usual formula for these types of conferences. In other words, the House of Commons would cover 70% of the costs, and the Senate would cover the remaining 30%. The House of Commons' share for fiscal 2022-23 would be $767,905. If approved, this request for additional temporary funding would be included in the main estimates for fiscal 2022-23.This estimate is based on the assumption that approximately 450 delegates will participate, and the temporary funding for fiscal 2020-21 and 2021-22 is $19,564 and $124,671 respectively, to be absorbed from the anticipated budget surpluses of the parliamentary associations.In closing, thank you for listening and for considering this request. Canada has always played a leading role on the international stage, and the COVID-19 pandemic has reminded us how interconnected our world is and how important strong relationships with our neighbours and allies are.I would now be happy to answer any questions you have. For budget details, I'll refer you to my colleague Jeremy LeBlanc.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilBruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[Translation]The next speakers on my list are Mr. Rodriguez and Mr. Julian, but Mr. Stanton may have something to add.Mr. Stanton, did you want to add anything to Mr. Drouin's statement, or did you have a question?FrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1150)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I'm ready to answer the committee's questions. However, Mr. LeBlanc and Mr. Drouin may answer as well, depending on the topic.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1150)[Translation]Great. Thank you.We'll go to Mr. Rodriguez, followed by Mr. Julian and, then, Mr. Deltell.Mr. Rodriguez, the floor is yours.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1150)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, Mr. Drouin.I ask this out of curiosity more than anything else. This time, the conference will be held in Montreal, but which cities was it held in the other two times?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin: (1150)[Translation]I'll answer that. In 2013, it was in Ottawa, and before that….Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc (Clerk Assistant and Director General, International and Interparliamentary Affairs): (1150)[Translation]It was also in Ottawa.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1150)[Translation]Thank you.You mentioned the ongoing pandemic. I thought I heard you say that, given the circumstances, all the contracts for the event would include a force majeure clause so they could be cancelled without triggering significant penalties. Is that right?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin: (1150)[Translation]Yes.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1150)[Translation]At line 3, the budget lists logistics, transportation and accommodation. For the 2022 conference, $465,000 is allocated for transportation and accommodation.Does that mean we're paying the expenses for all the delegates or those from less fortunate countries? How does that work?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1150)[Translation]We don't cover the logistics and accommodation costs for delegates from other countries. That line covers the travel and accommodation costs for staff who have to be at the conference. It also includes the cost of taking delegates from the airport to the conference centre and hotels, not to mention the audiovisual costs, including the rooms and equipment to put on the conference, which actually make up the bulk of the logistics costs.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1150)[Translation]Thank you.I have one last question.Do we ever give delegates from less fortunate countries a helping hand? Not every country in the Francophonie is wealthy, after all.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1150)[Translation]There is no fee for delegates to participate in the conference, but the travel and accommodation costs are assumed by their branches. I'm not sure whether the international secretariat has any assistance programs, but there may be other funding available. It's not part of the budget request before you today.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1155)[Translation]Thank you.JeremyLeBlancAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[Translation]Mr. Julian, you may go ahead.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1155)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.This presentation matters. The number of francophones around the world is rising dramatically, so it's vital that we maintain these ties with countries that have the use of French in common. Not to mention, ours is a bilingual country, with an English-speaking population. I know a conference will be held next year for Commonwealth countries.I have two questions. Are the budgets for the two conferences similar? For that conference, the budget is $1.3 million. In both cases, what happens if COVID-19 is still wreaking havoc come conference time? Should the conferences have to be cancelled, what would the financial repercussions be in each case?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1155)[Translation]Allow me to answer the first question regarding the Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference, which will be held in Halifax next year. Those are actually the same budgetary requirements. The budget you approved for that conference was $1.3 million, which is very similar to the request we are putting forward here.As Mr. Drouin and Mr. Stanton said, for the contracts we will sign with suppliers, both for that conference and the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association Conference in Halifax, we worked with the Office of the Law Clerk and our contracting experts at the House to ensure that the wording would allow us to invoke a force majeure clause should the pandemic force us to cancel the event, and also to protect us financially.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1155)[Translation]What would be the financial repercussions?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1155)[Translation]The goal is to remove the obligation to pay for the hotel rooms we are not using should we decide to cancel the conference in advance by a certain amount of time—60 days, 90 days or 120 days. However, we will align ourselves with international secretariats to ensure that, if we had to decide to cancel or significantly modify the conference, we can do so within the required time frames without having to pay needlessly.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1155)[Translation]Thank you, but that does not quite answer my question. Let's assume that, in both cases, we have to cancel six months in advance. Will the financial consequences be to the tune of $100,000, $200,000, $500,000 or $1 million? Do we have a rough idea of the costs even if we were to cancel six months in advance?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1155)[Translation]No, but there will be some costs.I think that most of the costs incurred would not be related to contracts, but rather to human resources. In the requested budget, we included a request for staff who will work on planning the conference. Those people will do work and will be paid their wages. So we will bear those costs.However, when it comes to contracts with hotels, suppliers and bus companies, there should not be any associated costs.If we use the example of the Conference of the Organization for Security Cooperation in Europe, or OSCE, which was supposed to be held this summer in Vancouver and which we had to cancel for obvious reasons, there were no costs associated with cancelling it or there were very minimal costs for the Canadian Parliament, in the amount of less than $10,000.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1155)[Translation]Thank you.JeremyLeBlancAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1155)[Translation]Mr. Deltell, go ahead.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1155)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Drouin, I am very happy to see you. My questions will be for you. First, I think that choosing Montreal is a very good thing. I thank you for that decision and commend you on it.My first question is about the budget. You say that, in the first two years, the budget will come from the budgetary surpluses anticipated by the associations.How can you assure us of that? The amount is obviously not $3 million, but how can you assure us that the associations will not spend the money set aside for them? Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin: (1155)[Translation]I will add a comment, and Mr. LeBlanc can correct me.Normally, in our associations, we always anticipate travel costs associated with the participation of Canadian parliamentarians.Mr. Deltell, you can imagine that those costs will not be incurred for obvious reasons this year.Mr. LeBlanc, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the associations will probably have budgetary surpluses if those costs are taken into account.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1200)[Translation]Yes, absolutely. The surplus will obviously be pretty high this year.If we consider the associations' historical spending, although the requests often exceed the budget envelope total, there are normally surpluses for all sorts of reasons in terms of the actual spending from one year to another. For example, we are anticipating the participation of 10 parliamentarians in an activity and, finally, owing to activities on the Hill, only six parliamentarians are able to participate. So that leads to savings.We have looked at the historical spending in terms of the budget envelope of the Joint Interparliamentary Council, or JIC, and we are very comfortable with saying that there will be a surplus. There was a surplus on average in the past. Over the past three years, for example, that surplus was $300,000. That's well within the parameters we are putting forward in this year's budget requests.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1200)[Translation]I now have more of a substantive question.The meeting is being held in 20 months. We all want life to get back to normal in 20 months. The least we can say is that no one can be sure of that.Why not work right away on preparing a hybrid meeting?Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—Russell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88756FrancisDrouinFrancis-DrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DrouinFrancis_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Francis Drouin: (1200)[Translation]I can say a few words on that.We will perhaps experience that for the first time at the annual meeting in January, which will be held in Morocco. I cannot speak for the other associations because I don't know.However, I do know that, at the APF, for instance, organizers still have decisions to make on the in-person holding of the Morocco meeting. Of course, it is highly likely that the meeting will be of the hybrid variety or even virtual. That will sort of be our pilot project with the APF. Even in anticipation of July 2021, no decision has yet been made on the location or the plenary session that will take place. It remains to be seen how it will be held, but we are working on it in close collaboration with the APF's office and its parliamentary secretary general.However, Mr. Deltell, the decision has not been made yet. It is a bit too early for us to be able to decide now. I think that, if we are unable to hold the meeting in person, we will force the use of a hybrid or even virtual model if need be.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88535GérardDeltellGérard-DeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeltellGérard_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Gérard Deltell: (1200)[Translation]I am happy to see that this is in the cards, but I am wondering whether we could not immediately come up with a plan B and assess it to see where things are going. I think that major savings could be achieved for all participants. As Mr. Rodriguez was saying earlier, some countries are not as privileged as ours. We could work on this immediately.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilFrancisDrouinGlengarry—Prescott—RussellJeremyLeBlancJeremyLeBlancJeremy-LeBlancInterventionMr. Jeremy LeBlanc: (1200)[Translation]Allow me to reassure you. In our planning, we are exploring those options with suppliers to determine whether we should have a hybrid model or a completely virtual one. That is part of our discussions with them. We are submitting a request for an in-person meeting because it will probably be the most expensive option. Therefore, if it is held and it costs the budgeted amount, we will have the necessary approved funding. If the meeting is held virtually, savings can be made.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilGérardDeltellLouis-Saint-LaurentAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1200)[Translation]Are there any further questions?We will now consider the request to accept the Joint Interparliamentary Council's recommendation. Does everyone agree?Some hon. members: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: We will now discuss item No. 6 on the agenda, the quarterly financial report for the first quarter of 2020-21 and revised 2020-21 supplementary estimates (B).Mr. Paquette, go ahead.Canadian Branch of the Assemblée parlementaire de la FrancophonieJoint Interparliamentary CouncilJeremyLeBlancDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.The next two points, not only the quarterly report, are about financial information, and since the pandemic is influencing the majority of our financial trends, I will present them together. That way, we can get better organized for questions.To begin, I will present the quarterly financial report and tell you about the decrease we have proposed for supplementary estimates (B) for this fiscal year. It should be noted that a quarterly report generally gives a good idea of spending trends from one year to another. However, in this case, we are comparing an election year with a year that is part of the COVID-19 pandemic context. In both cases, we are not talking about typical years, and so the trends cannot really make it possible to facilitate comprehension as is the case usually.In the report dated June 30, the approved authorities for 2020-21, in the amount of $516.4 million, appear to indicate a decrease of $4.4 million compared with the 2019-20 authorities. That is because the Board of Internal Economy approved the $17.4-million financial rollover this past July, which could not be reflected in our report dated June 30.If we look at the overall trends, we can see that there was an increase of $4.4 million for various important investments, an increase of $3.1 million for cost of living expenses and an increase of $1.7 million for budget adjustments following a general election. On June 30, the expenditures totalled $114.3 million, compared with expenditures of $121 million for the previous year. That is a decrease of $7.4 million.[English] The expenditures are also presented by type of cost. The most significant decrease in expenditures relates to the reduction of $6 million in transportation and telecommunications. This is due to the significant decrease in travel as a result of the pandemic. The expenditures for professional and special services have also decreased by $2 million, which is also due to the reduction in service contracts, training and hospitality, again as a result of COVID. As well, there is the difference in timing of certain payments to our external partners during this period. This decrease was partially offset by the cost to accommodate the virtual House proceedings. In addition, the expenditures for materials and supplies have also decreased by $2 million. That is as a result of the temporary closures of the food service facilities and the printing facilities as a result of the pandemic.On the other hand, expenditures for computers and office equipment have increased by a little over $1 million. This is primarily due to the purchase of equipment to accommodate the virtual House proceedings and committees and to enable certain employees to work remotely during COVID-19.Finally, the report provides comparison between the utilization of authorities from one year to the next, and we see a slight decrease of 1.3%, which is not unusual, given the current situation. It's also important to mention that the administration promotes an efficient use of resources and we continuously strive to minimize the request for incremental funding whenever possible. Given the current situation surrounding the COVID pandemic, we are closely monitoring and considering any financial impact when making funding decisions throughout the year. Also, given what has happened, we have reviewed our request for the 2020-21 supplementary estimates (B). As you know, the COVID pandemic has resulted in the postponement of the 65th Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference to 2021, as well as the cancellation of the 29th annual session of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. Funding for these conferences had been included in our main estimates for the current year. With the change in plans, this funding will no longer be required this year. As a result, we have offset our request with the current request for a carry-forward for 2021 in the supplementary estimates (B), and as a result, we've revised our request down to $6.3 million for a carry-forward, instead of the $17.4 million.[Translation]As for the next point, given all the financial trends the pandemic has significantly affected, we prepared you a summary of the major expenditures stemming from decisions made in the current landscape.To add relevance, we prepared a summary of expenditures by covering the period up until mid-September, which is a bit more useful for you. Contrary to the report I just presented, this one does not only concern the first quarter. This report includes the following expenditures: $1.4 million in investments for operating the virtual House; $1.1 million paid for outside printing; $287,000 for the purchase of equipment and supplies for members' offices; and the purchase of IT equipment and supplies totalling $396,000 for the administration.It should also be noted that a significant realignment of our staff was necessary to support the new ways of doing things and that this did not directly impact our expenditures. We continue to monitor those changes. We will submit a report to the Board of Internal Economy with our future quarterly reports.This concludes my presentation. I am ready to answer your questions.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021Supplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[Translation]Have you finished your presentation, Mr. Paquette?DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1210)[Translation]Yes.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[Translation]Are there any questions?Mr. Julian, Mr. Richards and Ms. DeBellefeuille would like to ask questions.Mr. Julian, the floor is yours.DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1210)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mr. Paquette. I would just like to compare apples to apples.There are additional expenditures of $3.1 million on September 17, but we see that some of the spending was reduced because of COVID-19. Yet, this continues in the financial statement of June 30. If we compare the money saved up until September 17 with the additional costs, what is the impact of COVID-19 on parliamentary operations?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1210)[Translation]In terms of updating our expenses, the analysis period just ended last week. We'll give you a more complete analysis in a few weeks. The fact remains that, to date, all trends show that the savings exceed the additional disbursements. It should also be noted that a portion of the savings relate to travel. However, since the members' travel is included the Members By-law, these funds can't necessarily be reallocated automatically. Regarding the other business expenses, the other travel related to voted appropriations, we can see that the savings exceed the expenses. Existing resources are actually being used to realign and support the new approach.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1210)[Translation]I want to know how many employees on Parliament Hill have been dismissed or laid off since the start of the pandemic.How many regular full-time employees have we lost? How many aren't working because of COVID-19?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1210)[Translation]I don't have an exact human resources analysis on hand. I know that, to date, there have been no layoffs as a result of COVID-19. However, perhaps Mr. Parent could provide some information on this matter.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyPierreParentPierreParentPierre-ParentInterventionMr. Pierre Parent (Chief Human Resources Officer, House of Commons): (1210)[Translation]Good afternoon, Mr. Julian.We haven't laid off any full-time staff. We simply haven't called back the people who were on call. Under these circumstances, no full-time employees have lost their jobs. I can't give you the exact figures at this time.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicDanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1210)[Translation]Could you provide the figures at the next meeting?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicPierreParentPierreParentPierreParentPierre-ParentInterventionMr. Pierre Parent: (1210)[Translation]We should certainly be able to find those figures.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicPeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1210)[Translation]Is that all, Mr. Julian?[English] Okay.We'll now go to Mr. Richards.PierreParentBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1210)[English]Thank you.On the $3.19 million specific to COVID, is that new spending only, or does it include the value of existing resources that would have been deployed towards pandemic-related items?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1210)[English]Those are only additional incremental disbursements. They're not the realignment at this point. We haven't gone down to that level of detail of what people have been doing—maybe different work or different contributions to everything here. Really, just incremental disbursements are what we've presented to you today.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicBlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1210)[English]Then you haven't been able to do any work towards getting some kind of an estimate of the value of the existing resources. From sitting in PROC in the summer, I know that an indication was given to us there that on some of the work on virtual sittings and some of the work towards a smart voting app there had been no new costs incurred but a lot of existing resources and a lot of employee time were repurposed. Do you have any indication—even initial estimates—of what kinds of expenditures or existing resources were put towards virtual sittings or the development of the voting app? I don't know that those things were actually authorized by this board. I don't know who authorized them. Maybe you could indicate that as well. I'm just curious to know if there has been any initial work done on the value of repurposing employees' time and any existing resources. Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1210)[English]At this point, this is the analysis that we're currently working on, given that we do the periodic assessments and details, really, with our quarters. For a lot of the work you've mentioned, in the spring we were very reactive and did what we had to do to make sure everything was functional. Over the summer, those special projects really kicked in, and we deployed the necessary resources and capacity to support those. When we come back and do our second quarter report, this is the kind of analysis we can bring forward to you and bring more specifics related to that. Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English]Okay. You will be able to bring that to us, then. I could be mistaken, as I'm a new member of the board, but I don't believe that those would have been authorized by the board. They would have been authorized within administration itself. I'm not sure. Can you tell me that? That obviously would indicate that it would be all the more important that we get information to look at. Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1215)[English]There are many items on that report relating to material supplies and even the infrastructure of the MPs' offices, even the external printing, that were brought forward and accepted by the board.Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English] Okay.DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1215)[English]For the other work that had been brought in directly to our folks in technology to be able to make sure that the chamber was functional, Stéphan or Michel might want to add more about where that request came from.Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English]Sure, but at the end of the day, you're indicating that this is something that you will bring back to a future meeting of the board to give us some sense of what the value of the reallocation of resources would look like.Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021DanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1215)[English]Yes, we will look and see what we can bring to you and at what level of detail.Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English]Thank you.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[English]Monsieur Patrice has something to add to that. I'll just defer to him.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1215)[English]We'll delve into more details later, but just for further information, the virtual chamber and virtual committees were a result of a decision of the House, so yes, the administration did enter into expenditures in relation to that. In terms of the estimates in the report you have for the expenses as of September 17, it does include overtime costs in terms of the resources that had to be deployed to support the virtual or hybrid committees and the chamber. We'll get more information for you.Government expendituresQuarterly Financial Report for the First Quarter of 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBlakeRichardsBanff—Airdrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59235BlakeRichardsBlake-RichardsBanff—AirdrieConservative CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RichardsBlake_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Blake Richards: (1215)[English]Great, thank you. I appreciate that.MichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1215)[Translation]We'll now continue with Ms. DeBellefeuille.Ms. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.BlakeRichardsBanff—AirdrieClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Whip of the Bloc Québécois): (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.I want to start by congratulating and thanking today's interpreters for the quality of their work and for their considerable expertise. We hear many interpreters, but I can say that today we have an all-star team. They do their work at practically the speed of light. I want to thank them for this.Mr. Paquette, thank you for the quality and thoroughness of your presentation. I'm a good student and I do my reading. During my preparations, I ask questions. Today, I want to congratulate you for being very transparent, especially because you clear up matters that are sometimes complex. Thank you for this.My questions will focus on what happens next. By this weekend, the entire province of Quebec may enter the red zone, probably for several weeks or even months. I'm thinking about all our decisions regarding certain expenses that weren't necessarily routine. I'm thinking of the disinfection equipment, the layout of the offices, the extension of the permission to advertise beyond the percentage allowed by the by-law, and all the changes made along the way to authorize members or their offices to incur expenses related to certain budget items.At the next board meeting, do you plan to propose an extension of certain measures or other measures that could help members better handle their work?I'm quite concerned because not all employees in our constituency offices have the furniture, ergonomic chairs and other work tools needed to carry out their work in compliance with health and safety standards. To date, for example, the finance services is still refusing to allow the purchase of a chair for one of our employees who must use the chair at home, since the chair is normally the property of the House of Commons. As employers, we recommend that all our employees work from home, so I wonder about our limitations. How can we better manage and support our employees from a health and safety perspective?Also, as you may recall, the budget for Internet access increased because, in some rural areas, teleworking incurs exponential costs in this area. Members were allowed to claim these costs back from their main budget.If the situation continues over the next six months, wouldn't this significantly affect the budgets of some members?Wouldn't some members be adversely affected by the fact that they must pay more for Internet access than a member who lives in an urban area, for example, where this additional expense isn't included in their MP budget?At the next board meeting, or at subsequent meetings, will we be looking at ways to help members carry out their duties in their constituencies in compliance with the health rules and the guidance provided by their governments? In our case, we're talking about the Quebec government.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1220)[Translation]Thank you for expressing your appreciation. I'll pass on these words of gratitude to my team, which helps me prepare to answer your questions, as you can see, and to provide this information.We're monitoring the various permissions already granted by the Board of Internal Economy. During the second quarter, we may determine the usage levels and whether additional permissions or adjustments are needed.We also conducted a preliminary assessment of the balance between the amount paid out of the organization's central funds and the amount paid out of members' budgets. At the start of this work, we estimated that the savings were enough to cover the additional costs. That said, we must continue to monitor the situation and take into account the reality of each member. I agree with you that the members' realities vary depending on the location of their constituency offices. In any case, we can carry out this monitoring.In terms of work tools, furniture and other items that employees may need to work from home, if the Board of Internal Economy asks us to do so, we can assess the requests and even draw a comparison with how other organizations support their employees who telework. We can provide this analysis at an upcoming meeting and propose some options for moving forward.Some expenses were denied because of a reliance on existing policies. However, we know that our reality is different. Should the Board of Internal Economy make the request, we can conduct the analysis and come back with suggestions.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1220)[Translation]If my colleagues don't object, we could ask for an analysis, but not immediately, since the analysis is comprehensive. However, the Board of Internal Economy could provide an overview.I believe that most permissions expire on March 31, 2021. So before Christmas, we could be presented with an overview.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1220)[Translation]Is this okay?Yes? Okay. Thank you.I'll now give the floor to Mr. Rodriguez.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez: (1220)[Translation]What I had to say aligns perfectly with the points made by Ms. DeBellefeuille, who raised some extremely important issues.I just want to make sure that this analysis will identify any changes or adaptations allowed as a result of COVID-19, and until when, and the type of additional authorizations that we must obtain from the Board of Internal Economy to continue running for the duration of this pandemic.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]We can expect to receive a report at the next meeting or the one after it.Is that okay, Mr. Paquette?COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1225)[Translation] Yes. We'll gather the necessary information.COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1225)[Translation]Are there any other questions?No? Okay.We can see that overall spending has decreased in several areas, particularly in the area of travel by members and their staff and by House Administration staff.We'll take a three-minute break and then continue in camera. We'll then proceed to item 8.[Proceedings continue in camera]COVID-19Government expendituresPandemicDanielPaquette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgStart of sitting day1TRANSCRIPTBoard of Internal EconomyNUMBER 0071st SESSION43rd PARLIAMENTFriday, July 10, 2020Le vendredi 10 juillet 2020Board of Internal EconomyCANADA[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]TRANSCRIPTJuly 10, 2020CommitteeNUMBER 007NUMBER 007NUMÉRO 007007100720202020/07/10 13:10:00House Of CommonsBureau de régie interneBoard of Internal EconomyBOIE143AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota (Speaker of the House of Commons): (1305)[English]Welcome to meeting number seven of the BOIE committee. The meeting will be going from 1 p.m. to 4 p.m., maximum, so three hours if need be. It's televised, as well as teleconferenced.I thank all of you for being here today, especially on a beautiful day like today for most parts of the country. For some of you who are avoiding the rain, this is working out very well.We'll move on to the first point of order, which is the minutes of the previous meeting. Before moving to acceptance, I understand there are two small corrections that have to be made to the minutes that were circulated. Maybe I can call on Michel Patrice to clarify what those changes are and to make sure everyone is in accordance with them. MichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice (Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons): (1305)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Actually, it's a correction to the minutes of the March 12 meeting. There was an administrative error that was made in relation to the membership of the working group, and it has been corrected. Since it was approved at the last meeting, the amendment needs to be agreed to by the board.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1305)[English]Do we have agreement from everyone on these changes?Some hon. members: Agreed.Hon. Anthony Rota: Okay, we'll go on to the second one.Number two, is there any business arising from the previous meeting?MichelPatriceMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl (Chief Opposition Whip): (1305)[English] Mr. Chair, I wasn't sure if this should be in the minutes or the business. I asked a question at the last meeting when we were deciding on an exception for printing costs. I asked what the difference in the costs of the postage would have been for Mr. Waugh if he had used the House's preferred rate as compared to when he chose to do that mailing himself. I'm just wondering if that information has been found and if it could be shared with the group.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1310)[English]Yes, I remember going through that.Who will be able to answer that with detail?Monsieur Patrice.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1310)[English]The information has been sent. I'm just trying to locate the information right now.I don't know, Rebekah, if you have the information right at your fingertips. We're looking for it.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRebekahKletkeRebekahKletkeRebekah-KletkeInterventionMs. Rebekah Kletke (Chief Operations Officer, House of Commons): (1310)[English]I'll find it and I'll pull it up.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1310)[English]If it's okay with everyone, we'll proceed. When it does come up, we'll interrupt and present the information.Does that work, Mr. Strahl?Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementRebekahKletkeMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1310)[English]Thank you.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1310)[English]Is there any other business arising from the previous meeting?Seeing none, we'll proceed to point number three on the agenda, the LTVP working group recommendations. The presenter with us today is Mr. Stanton, who is the chair of the working group on Centre Block.I'll just hand it over, and I'm sure we'll get a wonderful report.Bruce, it's all yours.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton (Chair, Working Group on the LTVP and the Centre Block Rehabilitation): (1310)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good afternoon, colleagues.I'm here today as chair of the second iteration of the long-term vision and plan, or LTVP, working group. The first working group served during the 42nd Parliament.I'm here to report to the Board of Internal Economy, or BOIE, on our work to date and to seek endorsement of our recommendation regarding phase 2 of the Parliament welcome centre, or PWC, which is part of the Centre Block rehabilitation program. For clarity, phase 1 of the welcome centre is what currently exists at the main visitor entrance to the West Block.The working group has been mandated to provide updates to the BOIE on the rehabilitation project and to make recommendations as required. In addition, it will guide and inform consultations with members and stakeholders, including joint consultations with the Senate when necessary. The working group met on June 17 to review the proposed mandate and to begin deliberations on the Centre Block rehabilitation at this stage of the project. The House of Commons administration and Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, provided an overview of the project. They gave an update on the progress made and the approvals to date. The working group was also informed of the guiding principles for the Centre Block established by the BOIE. [English] The overview provided us with a look at how the heritage conservation is being planned and is taking place in Centre Block and the importance of this significant heritage architecture. Included in the presentation was the list of architecturally significant rooms and spaces in Centre Block that require special attention and that should not be outwardly modified in a way that undermines their heritage value. The BOIE noted several of these spaces at their June 2019 meeting and asked for a recommended broader list to be reviewed by the working group. I understand that this list was provided to you, and the administration has since received additional spaces that should be included for consideration by our working group.As this was our initial meeting, we were provided with an overview of the project plan and the roles of the various stakeholders. This very complex project is being delivered following a fast-track methodology consisting of many overlapping activities. We understand that early decisions needed to be made while requirements were still being developed. The Centre Block rehabilitation, including the Parliament welcome centre, phase two, is one of the most significant capital works projects being undertaken in Canada. The significance ranges from its heritage value to its continued symbolism of Canadian democracy, as well as from the magnitude of the work and technical requirements. The parliamentary partners and PSPC are designing to meet the anticipated future needs that will be required to sustain the work of Canada's Parliament for the next 50 to 100 years. As you're aware, the parliamentary welcome centre was initially planned early in the long-term vision and plan as a phased project to be delivered in sync with the major rehabilitation of the triad buildings of West Block, Centre Block and East Block. Phase one was completed at the same time as the West Block rehabilitation. It provided the secure entry that is there now for visitors, MPs and staff to West Block. That was phase one.(1315) The design was based on serving the capacity of West Block with the anticipation of further phases being added to handle full capacity for the triad buildings. When completed, the Parliament welcome centre entity as a whole, phases one and two, will provide a secure and efficient entry for parliamentarians, business visitors and the public, and also meet the operational requirements of the House and Senate administrations to support the work of parliamentarians. It will also provide a visitor experience for the many thousands of visitors who are not able to pre-book a tour of the Parliament Buildings. We were surprised, quite honestly, to see what a big percentage that is.Going forward, we will be looking at detailed requirements for key functions in Centre Block and the parliamentary welcome centre complex to ensure that building functions reflect the operations of Parliament and the members' needs in our workplace.In terms of activities of the Centre Block rehabilitation and the parliamentary welcome centre project that needed the working group's immediate attention at our meeting, there was one main item that required further study as part of our BOIE approval in June of last year—namely, the excavation contract strategy for the welcome centre. The BOIE had tentatively approved the medium-sized welcome centre option based on a scalable excavation contracting strategy to allow enough time to review the requirements, options and associated costs while allowing the project work to still progress. The working group has reviewed the detailed information and options analysis, and brings forward our recommendation for the BOIE's consideration today. The working group looked at three options for phase two of the welcome centre. All options considered the following implications: security, visitor experience, parliamentary functional requirements, heritage design considerations and cost. It is clear to us that excavation is required to accommodate the base building requirements, such as mechanical, electrical and plumbing, and to connect the triad buildings of East Block, West Block and Centre Block for utilities, material handling, circulation and security in order to support operations. What we were intent on reviewing was the remainder of Parliament's requirements for the PWC. The meeting allowed us to look at those options and have our questions answered. It provided us with a fulsome understanding of those requirements and the incremental costs associated with the excavation and construction for the respective size of the welcome centre—the small, the medium and the large options.Accordingly, the working group recommends going forward with the excavation and construction of the medium option. That's 32,600 square metres for phase two of the welcome centre. This option adequately meets the requirements of all parliamentary partners.(1320)[Translation]We had good discussions and exchanges in order to arrive at this consensus. I'll point out that one important consideration on our minds was the preservation of the lawn, the central stairs and the Vaux wall in their current state.This recommended option will have no impact on these items because the PWC will be below grade. The Parliament welcome centre will provide the necessary support functions to ensure that the Centre Block is fully operational and secure for Parliament, and to ensure that Canadians and visitors have access to Parliament.Over the summer, the working group will further review the overall requirements for the Centre Block to ensure that the BOIE can make key rehabilitation project decisions in a timely and reasonable manner so that the project can move forward with as little risk as possible. Thank you for your attention. I'm happy to take questions or to elaborate on any of the information provided. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1320)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Stanton.We'll now move on to the questions.[English] The list starts with Mr. Holland and then goes to Mr. Julian and Mr. Strahl.Mr. Holland, you're on first. BruceStantonSimcoe NorthMarkHollandHon.Ajax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25508MarkHollandHon.Mark-HollandAjaxLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HollandMark_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Mark Holland (Chief Government Whip): (1320)[English]Thank you.Thank you so much, Mr. Stanton. Thank you for your report. Thank you for the work being done by the working group. I do support the recommendations. My question isn't with respect to the recommendations before us today. This question is for the House administration and those involved on the staff side of the project. I'm wondering whether we could get a bit of an update on the implications of COVID on construction timelines. I know that there was some concern, when we were initially talking about this project, around the decisions we were making, the speed of those decisions, and their implications for the timeline of the project. I'm wondering if we could have a bit of an update on those items.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1320)[English]Mr. Stanton.MarkHollandHon.AjaxBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1320)[English]I think that, in light of the question, it might be better.... This is more or less a scheduling issue I don't know, Michel, whether PSPC might be the best to respond on that. What's your observation there?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright (Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada): (1320)[English]I'd be happy to take the question, Mr. Chair. We actually work very closely with parliamentary partners as well as industry to develop what are, I think we can safely say, leading-edge practices for health and safety on construction sites. We worked with the Canadian Construction Association and in fact informed the development of the best practices that have been communicated nationally for construction across the country. While that is a provincial jurisdiction, the Canadian Construction Association has communicated these to ensure that there's consistency from site to site to site. I'll give you a few of the elements that have been applied on site. There is a questionnaire for all individuals before entering the site. Temperature readings are taken of all people entering the site. Everyone on site wears a face covering. That's been in place for the last couple of months, I would say. There is social distancing. There's been consideration of travel routes and segregation, to a certain extent, of the site. The Centre Block site provides the opportunity, as it's a very large site of 55,000 square metres, for social distancing. From a schedule perspective, the benefit is that we have not really seen many impacts. A few adjustments had to be made on supply chains, but we were able to make those adjustments. I would say that we've been able to keep the schedule on track. In some sense, because of the reduction in traffic in the downtown core, for example, as we are in the early stages of excavation, we've actually been able to see some benefits from a schedule perspective.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1325)[English]Very good.We'll go on to Mr. Julian, followed by Mr. Strahl.[Translation]We'll then continue with Mr. Rodriguez.[English]Mr. Julian.RobWrightPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian (House Leader of the New Democratic Party): (1325)[English] Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Stanton, for your presentation today. Having been part of the first iteration of the Centre Block working group, I appreciate all the time and effort that I know members of the working group are putting in. I have a comment and then a couple of questions. My comment is that I certainly appreciate that we're not going for what many of us considered to be the Cadillac option in terms of building the visitor welcome centre. The larger option was much more expensive. We're talking about over $110 million in savings, if my memory is correct, and I think that's very appropriate.Mr. Stanton, perhaps you or one of the dedicated public servants here could explain what that means in terms of cutting back those requests that came forward. There were a lot of requests, as part of that larger option, around committee rooms for the Senate, which quite frankly didn't seem necessary. For the people who are watching today from the press gallery and from the public, it would be good to know, I think, what we're paring away.Second, I don't see a recommendation around the House of Commons chamber itself. Could you elaborate a bit more on what you think the decision-making point is and will be around the House of Commons chamber? Thank you. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1325)[English] Thank you, Mr. Julian.On the first point....I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I just sort of jumped into that right away. My apologies.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1325)[English]You did an excellent job. Please continue.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1325)[English] On the first point, I don't know if we're able to put on one of the slides that we looked at in our committee meeting. It showed how and to what degree each of the options—small, medium and large—was able to meet the demands of both Houses, both chambers, as well as the administration requirements. We were satisfied that the medium option best met the prevailing necessities of both.To your point, Mr. Julian, it allowed.... A key point for the group, when it was looking at this, was that the medium option would not create any kind of further encroachment onto the lawn of the Commons and effectively all of the new works would be below ground, so the surface-level appearance of Centre Block would be unchanged, save entranceways on either side of the centre stairs where the access for the welcome centre would be. The medium option gave sufficient space for things like the visitor centre, to have that for the many who are unable to take a tour of Centre Block, as is done in other nations' capitals. There's a place where people can go to hear and see the amazing story about what our Parliament Buildings bring to our country and, at the same time, it meets the centre requirements. We were satisfied that the middle option satisfies the demands.As to the specific things that were pared back, I would maybe ask Michel if there's another person who might best be able to pinpoint some of those specifics.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1325)[English]Thank you, Mr. Stanton.Mr. Julian, in terms of paring back, I don't have information for all the partners, but definitely from the House of Commons I can tell you that the requirements were pared down to what we felt was needed to support the work of the House of Commons and the members.The Library of Parliament also did its part in terms of paring down its requirements. I don't have the exact number, but at least 1,000 square meters, if not more. In terms of the exercise, that would be going to the medium option. The partners have been working since last year—not necessarily in relation to this working group—on making sure that nobody was asking too much. These are the partners I can talk about, in terms of paring down the requirements of what's required to support the work of Parliament.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1330)[English] Thanks, Michel.On the second point, Mr. Julian, with respect to the House of Commons, we proceeded on the basis of the overview that we were given. We accepted the recommendation of this board, in fact, that there was no anticipation of a larger footprint for the House of Commons, so the additional capacities and necessities of the chamber, the House of Commons section of Centre Block, that we know of will have to be accommodated within the existing footprint.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1330)[English]Very good.Now we'll go to Mr. Strahl.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1330)[English] Thank you very much.With apologies to Claude, who's in a very hot building, and Dominic, whose boat is idling nearby, I do have a number of questions about this. I think this is a very important decision point for us. First of all, Bruce, you've indicated that you're not running again in the next election, and I would like to express my disappointment. This is my first opportunity to salute your great career. You will be missed whenever that happens—assuming, of course, I'm successful whenever that next election comes. We'll miss you when you do take your well-earned retirement. Perhaps Dominic can host you at his cottage.I have a couple of questions on the proposed recommendations. It's interesting; these decisions, I find, are always presented with two terrible solutions and one “just right” solution that we seem to be funnelled into. We have that now with the medium option: The porridge is just right. The medium option is referred to as being 32,600 square metres. Last year when we looked at this, the large option was 27,844 square metres. There is some talk here in the briefing about the net and gross building size, but it appears from the outside that the medium option is now bigger than the previous large option. What am I reading there incorrectly? Can you explain to me whether or not this entire project has grown since the last time we made a decision on it?That's my first question, Mr. Chair. I do have more. I don't know whether you want me to just rattle off all my questions and have them all handled or do them one at a time.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1330)[English]What we're looking at is very detailed, so I think it would be better if you did them one at a time rather than rush through them. That way, you can make sure you have all the answers. Is it okay with everyone if we continue that way? I think it will be a little more detailed. It's not like we get a lot of shots at this. Let's make sure we get all our details in place and our questions answered.Mr. Stanton.MarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1330)[English] Thank you, Mr. Rota.Mr. Strahl, thank you for your kind words. I still hope to be around for a little while longer. I mean, one never knows when the next election event may come. Who knows? It could be three years from now. I still have lots of time for fun at Parliament, that's for sure.I can answer the question on the difference in square metres. To my knowledge and understanding, the numbers you previously looked at were square metres based on usable space for the medium option. In terms of the numbers, the size has not changed. The square metres number that you see in the medium option now is the entirety of the gross square metres of the actual footprint of this phase two welcome centre. That's why the number of square metres has risen. I'd look to Michel or perhaps Mr. Wright for any further clarification on that, but that's my understanding.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1330)[English]You're exactly right, sir. I guess the questions we were looking at were a little different. When last we were discussing this, we were focused most on how space would be programmed. We were looking at space that could be programmed for the different users, that being the House, the Senate and the Library of Parliament. Now we're really trying to look at the costing comparisons that include all the spaces—the common space, the corridors, the material handling space and so on—not programmed by one of the individual entities but required for the functioning of the facility. The gross is apples to apples. Mr. Stanton is exactly right that the actual space has not grown, although I would understand the perception of it. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1335)[English] Thank you for clearing that up.This builds a bit on Mr. Julian's comments, I think. I understand the visitor experience that Bruce talked about, giving constituents the opportunity to learn more about Parliament when they're below ground, before they're actually brought up into the visitor gallery, etc. I still want to know what functions will be contained in this option.The costing report prepared for the department this spring said that the recommended option had a number of things. It said it would include public food services, three committee rooms and a multi-purpose room for the Senate. Did that translate over into this option, what was prepared in the costing analysis for the department? Certainly, that would be an expansion of the visitor experience. I don't believe there are public food services. Again, recognizing that this is a shared building between the Senate and the House, it seems to me that the parliamentary functions that are being proposed here are primarily on the Senate side. Am I correct on that?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctRobWrightBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1335)[English] Thanks, Mr. Strahl.I think it would be fair to say that the parliamentary welcome centre in this medium option does include additional meeting space for the Senate side. We certainly recognize that in the expansion of services to West Block, the number of committee rooms and resources now available to the House side has significantly increased. The same has certainly not been the case for the Senate side. This was, again, a co-operative exchange to look at what those needs might be, and the medium option does provide these additional spaces for the Senate on the one floor. I'm not party to how those discussions took place or the specifics of the square footage allocation on that. I'm looking at the deck here to see, in fact, if there is anything more specific there, but I'm not finding it right at the moment. I think it's fair to say, when you balance the committee requirements, that, yes, it's true, a portion of this parliamentary welcome centre would be dedicated to some of those additional Senate resources. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1335)[English]Finally, I want to talk a bit about the costing. The building and construction costs are estimated at $530 million, but a further $203.5 million in various contingencies and escalation has been added, which is about 38% of the cost. Is it normal for nearly 40% to be budgeted for contingencies and escalation? One of the line items, $54 million, is called “escalation to mid-point of construction”. I don't know what that means, and I'd like to understand that. Again, is it normal for a procurement project to have a 40% escalation clause built into it, and what does that particular “escalation to mid-point of construction” mean?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1340)[English] Thank you, Mr. Strahl.I'm going to ask if Mr. Wright from PSPC could speak to that. I see the numbers that you're speaking of, and I think it's certainly a very relevant question.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1340)[English] Thank you very much for the question. I can try to unpack that as clearly as possible. It is an important question.One thing I would say is that the costing report that you reference was conducted by an independent costing firm, which used industry best practices for this costing effort. There are two key things. Yes, these types of contingencies are normal, especially for projects at this stage. I can clarify that a little further. Additionally, this is built upon 15 years of delivery of projects on the Hill, which has informed the different types of contingencies that result in projects coming in on budget.The design contingency is an element for the initial stages of the project. This cost estimate was developed at a point in time before the completion of schematic design, so early stages and before some of the key decisions have been made by Parliament. There are a number of unknowns that remain. As we move into detailed design, that design contingency will be kind of ended in the next 18-month to two-year period. Then that will become a certainty from a design perspective. So the design contingency will be kind of used up, or not, over the next 18 to 24 months as we move through the design.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: The construction contingency is essentially for unknown conditions as we move into construction. For example, we've just run into the first unknown element. As we've done the early excavation work, we have found, on the southeast corner of Centre Block, in front of the Senate area, that the foundation is actually a rubble foundation. That was an unknown. There will be some cost implications and impacts that will come from that. We will run through a number of those experiences as we move through this in a 100-year-old building of which there were no blueprints, etc. We have a fairly exhaustive assessment program to reduce those unknowns as much as possible, but we will run into those over time.Escalation is an important factor. We tried to take, I would say, a fairly conservative approach here. Any cost estimate is in current dollars, not in future dollars, so the escalation is essentially an attempt to accommodate inflationary pressures into the cost estimate. If you look back over the past 10-year period, the escalation factor in the Ottawa construction industry has been 3%: 2.95%, to be specific.As we look forward, I would say that right now escalation is a challenging piece to get right, as we are in the COVID situation, so we will continue to assess this. We feel that 3.5% would be a safe and conservative estimate at this point.The midpoint element that you mention is where we would not want to apply escalation to early activities. Take excavation, for example. It is not going to experience escalation, because it is a current activity and it will be done in the early points of the construction. To average out the escalation—because it is cumulative, as it kind of builds on itself from year to year to year—from a time point perspective, we apply it to the total cost above but for the first half, from a time perspective, to make sure that we're not inappropriately applying escalation to construction events that would be happening early in the project and should not experience any type of escalation pressures.I'm happy to expand further. I know it is a bit of a technical area, and we would be happy to provide any additional information as well.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctRobWrightAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1345)[English] Mr. Strahl, has everything been answered? Very good.[Translation]We'll now continue with Mr. Rodriguez.[English]Then we'll go on to Ms. Bergen.[Translation]Mr. Rodriguez, you have the floor.RobWrightPabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-Mercier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25451PabloRodriguezHon.Pablo-RodriguezHonoré-MercierLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RodriguezPablo_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Pablo Rodriguez (Leader of the Government in the House of Commons): (1345)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to thank the committee members for their work.The questions that I wanted to ask on this topic have already been put forward. That said, I'd like Mr. Speaker or the group members to refresh my memory on the following matter. I know that the group must also look at the general requirements for the Centre Block. I want to know the next steps of the working group and when our committee will be dealing with this.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1345)[Translation]Mr. Wright or Mr. Patrice could answer your question.PabloRodriguezHon.Honoré-MercierMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1345)[English]I will ask Susan Kulba to maybe give a bit of detail.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingSusanKulbaSusanKulbaSusan-KulbaInterventionMs. Susan Kulba (Senior Director, A and LTVP Program Management Directorate, House of Commons): (1345)[Translation]The next step is a meeting where the team will address the needs of Parliament. The next meeting will take place in August, at least we hope so.[English]We will get together to review the more detailed requirements. We'll be looking at the chamber, the lobbies and the gallery as a first step to make sure that, within the footprint, we're looking at creative ways to make sure that we're able to serve Parliament and its future growth. Then, we will break it down further into details that really impact the work that you do, and make sure that we've gathered any special requirements that you want to add in or elaborate on, so that we can really make sure the building is suitable for you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1345)[Translation]Do you have any other questions, Mr. Rodriguez?That's fine? Thank you.[English]Now we'll continue with Ms. Bergen.SusanKulbaCandiceBergenHon.Portage—Lisgar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59110CandiceBergenHon.Candice-BergenPortage—LisgarConservative CaucusManitoba//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BergenCandice_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Candice Bergen (House Leader of the Official Opposition): (1345)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Stanton, for your presentation, and to all of you for the work that you've done.I'm going to start by saying that—at least for me, and I think for most members of Parliament on this board—we don't want to see, three years from now, costs escalating yet again, there seeming to be no answers as to why, and the taxpayer looking back on us and saying that we said yes to this without really giving it thorough oversight.When I see the differences, for example, in the square footage that we were given as the small, medium and large options, which are being changed today, the explanation sounds reasonable to me, but at the same time it's not something I'm an expert on. I'm concerned that the same thing could happen with the costs. When we're talking about a 38% escalation cost, if you tell us that's normal, we believe you.I guess what I'm asking is this: Can the taxpayer, and those of us who are members of Parliament representing the taxpayer, be assured that there is somebody there and that there is a check there so that these costs won't escalate even further? It's just like the square footage. There's a reasonable answer as to why we were given different square footage amounts a while ago, as compared to today. Can we be assured that these costs will not escalate beyond this 38%?In the private sector, there's somebody paying the bill; there's a business case being made, and that usually helps provide checks and balances. I absolutely understand that in this setting we don't have that, but I, for one, want to be able to look the taxpayer in the eye and say that we, as members of Parliament on BOIE, did everything we could to ensure that these costs didn't escalate and that there wasn't a blank cheque given.I would like some assurances around that. I'll leave that as a comment, and maybe somebody wants to speak to it.I do have a specific question. I think Mr. Wright referred to the excavation changes. Is there an update? I think the previous number was $48 million for that cost. I'm just wondering if that is changing, and whether we'll be given updates on that.Second, in regard to the decision we're being asked to make, are we actually making a decision, or are we giving the minister our position? I know that recently the state broadcaster reported that BOIE recommended the $733-million option. Obviously, the CBC was in error, because we hadn't made that decision, but I just want to know that the minister hasn't been told that we've made a decision, and whether this is a recommendation or a decision point.Those are two questions, and then I just have one more quick comment after that.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1350)[English] Who would like to start on that one? Mr. Stanton, maybe I'll let you start, and then you can direct it to wherever you see fit.CandiceBergenHon.Portage—LisgarBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1350)[English] I think on the specific questions, especially those relating to the costs, I'll leave that perhaps to Mr. Wright or Mr. Patrice.Ms. Bergen, I couldn't agree more. I think one of the profound responsibilities we have as a working group of MPs is, in fact, to take that responsibility seriously and make sure we are aware of how the project is going. We have a responsibility to report to you and this board as to the progress as it continues. I think that was one of the bases of informing how an MP working group should be there in the first place. We need to be aware and completely informed of the progress of the project and report to you on some of the key decisions that would speak to how...if issues come up that you need to be fully aware of. I think the MPs on the working group take that responsibility seriously, and we'll make sure that we follow through on that.As to the cost questions, perhaps Mr. Wright would be best.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingRobWrightRobWrightRob-WrightInterventionMr. Rob Wright: (1350)[English]I will definitely start, and then perhaps I can pass it to Ms. Garrett on the details.One thing that I think is important.... As Mr. Stanton indicated, we have constructed the first phase of the visitor welcome centre, and it may be useful to compare the estimates that we have here and the actual costs that resulted in that project.Phase one of the visitor welcome centre, from a gross square metre perspective, so apples to apples, is approximately 5,700 square metres. If you extrapolate that to the size here, that would give you an estimate of $780 million, approximately, and that is non-escalated. If you added an escalation factor into that, that would take you above $800 million. The estimate that we have here is $730 million for that kind of apples-to-apples comparison. I think it can illustrate the comparability between something that is a completed project and the costs that were incurred against the estimate, and the estimate compares favourably to those real results.On the excavation, in particular, we have awarded a contract, so that has moved from an estimate to a more concrete estimate, if you will. I'll ask Ms. Garrett to provide the details on that.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctBruceStantonSimcoe NorthJenniferGarrettJenniferGarrettJennifer-GarrettInterventionMs. Jennifer Garrett (Director General, Public Services and Procurement Canada): (1350)[English]Thank you very much for the question.As it pertains to the excavation contract, Mr. Wright is correct. We have actually tendered and awarded the contract associated with what we call, or what you will commonly hear as, the mass excavation for the program. That represents the [Technical difficulty—Editor] in front of Centre Block. It does not represent the entirety of the excavation program. We still have to award the program that digs in and creates the connection between that parliamentary welcome centre and Centre Block.For example, if you're looking at the cost table, you'll see that we are carrying $66 million associated with that excavation activity, and that is to carry out the fulsome budget that we're carrying to conduct both the excavation of the whole and the connections into Centre Block, in its totality. When we have the second aspect of the contract tendered, then we'll have actual costs for both elements of the program.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctRobWrightCandiceBergenHon.Portage—Lisgar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59110CandiceBergenHon.Candice-BergenPortage—LisgarConservative CaucusManitoba//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BergenCandice_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Candice Bergen: (1355)[English]Great, thank you.Could someone just answer the question of whether we're giving the minister a recommendation here or actually making a decision? Has the decision been made by the minister, in effect?Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctJenniferGarrettAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1355)[English]Mr. Patrice.CandiceBergenHon.Portage—LisgarMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1355)[English]Thank you for that question.I'm just going to say a bit about the gross and the net square metres, because I kind of had the same reaction when I saw the different data. Just for the benefit of the board, I'm going to say that at that time, while we were discussing net, the amount was about the same. It was around the same number in terms of the estimated costs when we were looking at that issue, but it did create for me some kind of angst when I saw the two different sets of numbers.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingCandiceBergenHon.Portage—Lisgar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59110CandiceBergenHon.Candice-BergenPortage—LisgarConservative CaucusManitoba//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BergenCandice_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Candice Bergen: (1355)[English] That's because you knew what we as MPs would be thinking. You knew we'd be asking about that too. Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1355)[English]Yes. In terms of the decision, obviously the working group is looking at it and making a recommendation to the board in terms of what they think the requirements of the House would be. The board here is responsible for the facilities, and in terms of the administration of the House of Commons is basically informing the government, through the minister, what we have identified as our requirements and our needs. The decision rests with the minister and the government in terms of whether or not they will go through and undertake that spending.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctCandiceBergenHon.Portage—LisgarCandiceBergenHon.Portage—Lisgar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59110CandiceBergenHon.Candice-BergenPortage—LisgarConservative CaucusManitoba//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BergenCandice_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Candice Bergen: (1355)[English]Okay. Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1355)[English]My understanding is that there is no decision. I personally would be surprised if a decision had been made by the minister before hearing the views of the House of Commons. So nothing has been done—Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctCandiceBergenHon.Portage—LisgarCandiceBergenHon.Portage—Lisgar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/59110CandiceBergenHon.Candice-BergenPortage—LisgarConservative CaucusManitoba//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BergenCandice_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Candice Bergen: (1355)[English]Thanks for clarifying that.Finally, through you, Mr. Stanton, perhaps you could reiterate this to the working group. When you were giving us your report, you were talking about the specific rooms in Centre Block that had been listed and how there would not be an undermining of their heritage value. I would like to reiterate that, as I recall from when we had this discussion, we really don't want those rooms changed. We'd like to be able to walk in and see that they are not changed at all. I just want to reiterate that point. We really hope that so many of those rooms remain exactly the same outwardly as they were when we left just over a year ago. Thanks very much for the opportunity to provide that feedback.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMichelPatriceBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1355)[English] That's an excellent point. Thank you.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctCandiceBergenHon.Portage—LisgarAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1355)[English]Are there any other questions? Very good.Before we go on, I just want to comment on the fact that Mr. Stanton will not be running again in the next election. I've had a chance to work with Bruce over the last few years as both Assistant Deputy Speaker and Speaker. Rarely do we find someone with the level of integrity and dedication that Bruce has. He is just an exceptional individual, and he will be missed at all levels. I've often said that we try to keep the good guys in Ottawa, and he is one of the greats, so we will miss him. Bruce, it's been a real pleasure.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35724BruceStantonBruce-StantonSimcoe NorthConservative CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/StantonBruce_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bruce Stanton: (1355)[Translation]That's very nice. Thank you.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1355)[Translation]We'll now move on to item four, which includes the 2019-20 year-end financial report and the 2020-21 supplementary estimates (B).I'll turn the floor over to Daniel Paquette, the chief financial officer.2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021BruceStantonSimcoe NorthDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette (Chief Financial Officer, House of Commons): (1355)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1355)[English]Mr. Chair, did we actually say yes or no to the recommendations in item three? I just want to make sure we didn't have a long conversation for....Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctDanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1355)[English]No, you're absolutely right. We did not proceed to accept that. Is everyone in accordance with number three? Was the questioning and everything in order? I see a lot of heads nodding.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1355)[English]Agreed.Parliament Buildings Renovation ProjectParliamentary precinctAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1400)[English]Thank you, Mr. Strahl. I appreciate the heads-up on that one. That works out well.We'll now proceed with Mr. Paquette.MarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1400)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm here to present the 2019-20 year-end financial report and to get your approval for the 2020-21 supplementary estimates (B).Parliament gives the House authorities so that it can support members based on their usual parliamentary calendar. The authorities for 2019-20 totalling $517 million constitute an increase of $10.7 million, or 2.1%, compared to the previous year.The most significant changes regarding the increase are $3.4 million and $1.5 million respectively for the increases in the cost of living for members and House officers and for the administration. There's also a $2-million increase for the carry-forward related to the various major investments made.In 2019-20, expenditures totalled $506 million, an increase of $18 million, or 3.8%, compared to the previous year. In the report, expenditures are also presented by type of cost. We can see that the largest increase concerns salary and benefit expenses. The total of $17.3 million is mainly attributed to election expenses.There are the severance payments for former members and their employees and the additional salaries that the administration paid to employees that it hired to support various election activities and orientation programs. In addition, there are salary increase expenses. The economic increases of certain administration employees contributed to this fluctuation.[English] Expenditures for computers, office equipment and furniture have increased by $5 million. This is primarily due to key investments in such activities as the implementation of managed computing for constituencies and the increased capacity for broadcasting and webcasting for committees. As well, given the year of an election, there were additional IT investments in the life cycle of the infrastructure during this period of time. On the other hand, a decrease of $5.8 million in transportation and telecom was mostly due to the decrease in travel expenditures as a result of the election period. Our revenues also went down by $5.9 million due to a reduction in services provided to federal departments and other parliamentary institutions, as well as a decrease in catering, cafeteria and restaurant revenue, all during the dissolution period.Finally, the report provides a comparison between the 2019-20 and 2018-19 utilization. It shows a slight increase of 1.5%. It is important to mention that the House promotes an efficient use of resources and continuously strives to minimize requests for incremental funding whenever possible. For example, financial pressures that occurred over the course of the year, such as election-related costs and economic increases for House administration employees, were all managed within existing resources rather than additional funding being sought. As a matter of fact, over the past two years, other than the operating budget carry-forward, no additional funding was sought through the supplementary estimates process.It is customary for government organizations to carry forward lapsed amounts of 5% of their main estimates. For the House, this equates to a maximum of $17.5 million. Therefore, I am seeking your approval to include the full carry-forward amount of $17.5 million into our 2020-21 supplementary estimates. This carry-forward will then be allocated to members, House officers and the administration according to existing policies. In addition, I'm seeking your approval to include $5.5 million in the 2020-21 supplementary estimates (B) relating to the 2020-21 economic increases for certain House administration that was approved by the board in February. I should also point out that, going forward, the requirements for these economic increases will be included in our main estimates for 2021-22. In conclusion, as you know, the House is continuing to react and to adjust operations in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, including implementing appropriate measures on the Hill and in constituencies. I would like to assure you that we are closely monitoring the financial impacts associated with this situation. If needed, although it's not anticipated, a submission will be brought forward to address financial requirements through the 2020-21 supplementary estimates. In any case, we will report back in the fall on the impact COVID is having on our financial situation.(1405)Mr. Chair, this concludes my presentation. I will take any questions. 2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1405)[English]Do we have any questions?Mr. Strahl.DanielPaquetteMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1405)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I note that the House administration budget was $186.6 million. The actual spend was $190.8 million, so $4.2 million more than anticipated was spent, I guess because members spent less and the monies were available for the House administration. Perhaps you just did say it and I misunderstood it, but what caused that $4.2 million spending over the anticipated budget?2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1405)[English]When we manage the overall budget from a cash flow perspective, we look at the full voted appropriation. A portion goes to House administration and then goes to the members. We know that during an election year, due to the period of reduced activities, some of these funds are not necessarily used on the members' side. Knowing this, we didn't come back and ask for supplementary estimates for something like the economic increase for last year and the retroactive implications of those. It was about $8.1 million just for that particular item. We also had the additional resources for the HR advisory services for members. That was $2.5 million. The actual election costs for the administration were a little over a million dollars. Knowing that the cash was there in our voted appropriation, we didn't ask for the supplementary estimates. Between our programs, it shows maybe an overspend of our planned budget but not an overspend in our overall appropriation. 2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021MarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1405)[English]Mr. Julian.DanielPaquettePeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/16399PeterJulianPeter-JulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNew Democratic Party CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JulianPeter_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Peter Julian: (1405)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Thank you, Mr. Paquette.These financial statements are a bit like the economic update that would have been provided just before the pandemic hit. We're talking about March 31. On March 13, the decision was made to suspend parliamentary activities. I find this interesting. I don't have any issue with the financial statements. This seems very clear, including the significant decreases in committee expenses and parliamentary exchanges. When I look at the largest and much smaller expenditures, I think that it would be worthwhile to hear how you think things will unfold this year. Since I'm in New Westminster and the other members are also at home, it seems that travel expenses are much smaller. There are no parliamentary exchanges either. The committees are meeting virtually. Does this raise or lower costs? I imagine that this lowers costs. In addition, many House administration employees are teleworking.In your opinion, which expenditures will increase as a result of the pandemic and which expenditures will decrease significantly because of all the decisions made in the context of the pandemic?2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1405)[Translation]Mr. Paquette, you have the floor.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1405)[Translation]The expenditures that will increase are the technology and telecommunications expenditures, given the establishment of the platform. We must ensure that everyone is well connected and that we have the necessary equipment.The decreased costs include travel costs, because people aren't travelling. There are conference and committee costs, both for members and for the administration, whether the costs involve conferences or training.At this time, we're monitoring the situation. We have tools built into our financial system that will enable us to provide a proper report this fall on the impact of these items. Right now, it's too early to quantify this and to determine where this will lead us. I think that we'll manage to do so by the middle of the year. I'll come back here to provide an update on the actual situation, once we've made these adjustments.2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1410)[Translation]We'll now continue with Ms. DeBellefeuille.DanielPaquetteClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille (Member of the Board of Internal Economy): (1410)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.Good afternoon, everyone.I want to start by thanking the interpreters who have been translating the comments made by my English-speaking colleagues for the past hour and 10 minutes. I must say that they're excellent, and I applaud them. I hope that they have air conditioning in their booths, because it's hot.Mr. Speaker, I find the report presented to us today very transparent. I can see that a number of expenditure increases have been funded through the authorized budgets.I have just one question.One reason for the increase in staff expenditures, which total $17.3 million in 2019-20, is the hiring of additional employees to work on the major Centre Block renovation project.How much of this increase is related to staff expenditures in comparison with the other items identified in the document, such as information technology, advisory services and support for members? Are more human resources directed toward providing advisory services to members than toward the major Centre Block renovation project?2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1410)[Translation]Go ahead, Mr. Paquette.ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1410)[Translation]Basically, the money for the Centre Block renovation comes from Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC. These expenditures are not directly related to the administration. I said that our revenues were down because we have advisory services. We're recovering these expenditures from the department. This isn't a net expenditure for us.I'll explain the $17.3-million increase. A significant part of this increase, $11 million, is attributable to severance payments for members and their employees during the election period. The members' orientation provided by employees during the election period accounts for an increase of about $3 million. An increase of over $2 million is attributable to the human resources team that supports the members as employers. There's also the increase in the cost of living. Retroactive payments arising from the signature of the collective agreements amounted to over $8 million. My calculation is just over $17.3 million. However, this increase is offset by the $4-million decrease in the salaries paid by members during the year. During an election period, many members have fewer employees, and new members take some time to hire employees. There's a decrease in these averages.Essentially, this increase doesn't concern the renovation of the Centre Block. Instead, it concerns the employees responsible for providing orientation and support services to members during the election period.2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—Suroît//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35315ClaudeDeBellefeuilleClaude-DeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtBloc Québécois CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DeBellefeuilleClaude_BQ.jpgInterventionMrs. Claude DeBellefeuille: (1410)[Translation]Thank you.DanielPaquetteAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1410)[Translation]Are there any other questions?[English] Do we have approval for the proposal put forward by Monsieur Paquette? Looking around, I see heads nodding. Very good. We have approval.Before continuing to item five, there was a question raised by Mr. Strahl. I believe Mr. Patrice has the answer to the printing discrepancy, or the delta between the two printing levels.Monsieur Patrice.2019-2020 Year-end Financial ReportGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021ClaudeDeBellefeuilleSalaberry—SuroîtMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1410)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.We have located the information. The mailing cost for the member at that time was $6,590 at the rate he was charged. If he'd been charged the preferred bulk rate, it would have been $177. The difference was $6,400, essentially.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1415)[English]Thank you, I guess. That's a tough bill to swallow, but thank you.Constituency officesHouseholdersReimbursementMichelPatriceAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1415)[English]Are there any other comments on that? Everybody's had the chance to swallow? They can talk now? Okay. Very good.[Translation] We'll now address item five, the extension of temporary exceptions for advertising and Internet service expenses.Mr. Paquette, you have the floor.Broadband Internet servicesConstituency officesHouseholdersMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeDanielPaquetteDanielPaquetteDaniel-PaquetteInterventionMr. Daniel Paquette: (1415)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.At their meeting in April, the board approved temporary measures to include additional detailed information in their advertising around local, community, government and not-for-profit organizations that could be of interest to their constituents with regard to COVID-related matters, and to be able to solicit donations for registered Canadian charities, also pertaining to COVID-related programs. This decision also included the possibility for members to reimburse Internet service charges to their employees who are now teleworking. This decision had an expiry date of June 30. Given the continued challenges around COVID, the administration is proposing that the board approve the extension of these temporary measures until the end of the fiscal year.Broadband Internet servicesConstituency officesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1415)[English]Are there any questions?DanielPaquetteMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1415)[English]Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to be this guy the whole time.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1415)[English]No, you're fine.Mr. Strahl.MarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeMarkStrahlChilliwack—Hope//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71986MarkStrahlMark-StrahlChilliwack—HopeConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/StrahlMark_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Mark Strahl: (1415)[English]I support this. I would like, perhaps, the staff to come back. One of the provisions here that we are not extending is the ability to do printing in our constituencies, to have a local printer provide services. I would like to see a report on what the uptake was and what we found the cost differences were. I personally did two householders in that time frame, both printed locally, which helped a struggling local business and I had a great interaction with them. I've heard from a number of my colleagues as well who quite liked that arrangement. I would like to get an idea of how it went, perhaps for a future meeting.Broadband Internet servicesConstituency officesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1415)[English]Okay, very good.I'm just getting a message here that that's not a problem. The report will be sent.Maybe I'll defer to Monsieur Patrice. What time frame would we be looking at for that report to come in?Broadband Internet servicesConstituency officesHouseholdersMarkStrahlChilliwack—HopeMichelPatriceMichelPatriceMichel-PatriceInterventionMr. Michel Patrice: (1415)[English]I think it would be beneficial for the board to do it in two steps, so we'll send a report, in terms of information that could come up in the following weeks, and maybe come to the board itself at its meeting to have the discussion and the exchange.Broadband Internet servicesConstituency officesHouseholdersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25452AnthonyRotaHon.Anthony-RotaNipissing—TimiskamingLiberal CaucusOntario//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RotaAnthony_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Anthony Rota: (1415)[English]Very good.[Translation]Are there any questions?Mr. Julian, you have the floor.MichelPatricePeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyINTERVENTIONParliamentDiscussed TopicProcedural TermPerson SpeakingSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE