//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1635)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I also wanted to pass along some thanks to the interpreters in the booth, the technical folks and the staff who sit behind us and prepare us for these meetings. This wouldn't be able to happen without you.Minister, this is a great week for Canada. I'm really excited about the prospect of Trans Mountain. You've been a leader in our party not only on the infrastructure file, but since you've taken over this very delicate but economically vital matter of twinning of the Trans Mountain pipeline. You've been a very steady hand at the wheel.I just want to get a sense from you of how important it is not only to you personally but also to Albertans to have this significant victory in finally getting an opportunity to triple the capacity of this pipeline.AlbertaOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.In your opening remarks, you chastised the Conservatives for wanting to do appeals and for taking the legislative route. I must admit that I was also nervous about the path that had been chosen. You and the Minister of Finance convinced me that it was the right way and, of course, I guess now I have to admit that I was wrong on this and you were right, so congratulations on that.I also have found that some of the opposition rhetoric on this project—including at today's meeting, when the member suggested that somehow we should have begun the process of obtaining permits and entering into construction contracts prior to the completion of the process—demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how this process is meant to work. How irresponsible would it have been to prejudge the outcome or to have rushed this court-required and constitutionally required process?Constitution challengesOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English] I'm sorry, Mr. Minister, but were all those decisions and mistakes that were highlighted in the Federal Court of Appeal decision made when the Conservatives where in power? Constitution challengesOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English]We've had a lot of difficulty until very recently on clearing exploratory drilling on the east coast, and of course we have the injunction on TMX. Bill C-69 seems to achieve the right balance and seems to push us beyond the mistakes that existed in CEAA 2012 to ensure these types of mistakes don't happen again. Are you confident that's the case?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English] We were very excited to see that completed in December to provide an off-ramp from exploratory drilling and massive environmental assessments on a well-by-well basis. That's a great initiative from your and Minister McKenna's departments.Another concern that's been expressed to me is that we want to make sure the Canadian building trades have access to as much of the work on the Trans Mountain expansion as possible. I know there are different thresholds and limits in other projects. How can we ensure that Canadian workers benefit as much as possible from this megaproject?Job creationOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English]As a final very short question, there's been some scuttlebutt at the table here about whether or not a constitutional right is implicated in this process. I'm perhaps not as close to this issue as you are, but do you feel that the section 35 rights of indigenous peoples are implicated by the expansion, and was that something that we were trying to make sure we got right with Bill C-69?Aboriginal rightsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentOil and gasTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]I agree.AmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1540)[English] Welcome, everyone.I call to order the 167th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. This is very likely our last meeting before Parliament rises, which is expected to happen this week.I'd like to welcome a couple of new members to our committee today, temporary members Don Rusnak and Linda Lapointe. Don, I'd like to thank you for your four years in Parliament. I understand you're not seeking re-election, but thank you for your service.We'll begin with an opening statement by the departmental officials here to brief us today on the rural and northern immigration pilot, followed by normal rounds of questioning.I understand there may be interruptions over the course of the next half-hour. We might be seeking unanimous consent to continue to pose questions to the witnesses until the time to vote, so that all parties will have an opportunity to participate in the debate.Without further ado, I'd like to welcome Natasha Kim, Lara Dyer and Corinne Prince.Ms. Kim, please proceed.Immigration and immigrantsNorthern CanadaRural and Northern Immigration PilotRural communitiesNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Kim.Mr. Tabbara.NatashaKimMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]You have about 30 seconds, Mr. Tabbara. Are you sharing your time with Ms. Zahid?NatashaKimMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English] Mr. Maguire.MarwanTabbaraKitchener South—HespelerLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]I think we'll probably have an opportunity to get through 20 minutes of questions, and maybe another 10 minutes after that.LarryMaguireBrandon—SourisLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]I'm not sure if it's possible.Is the templates for the MOUs prepared for our review?Immigration and immigrantsNorthern CanadaRural and Northern Immigration PilotRural communitiesLarryMaguireBrandon—SourisNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Very briefly, please.LarryMaguireBrandon—SourisNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Maguire.Ms. Kwan.NatashaKimJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]That's an interesting question, and perhaps we may get to it in further rounds of questioning.Mr. Sarai.JennyKwanVancouver EastRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]You have only a few seconds left, Mr. Sarai. CorinnePrinceRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]That's perfect. Thank you very much.Voices: Oh, oh!The Chair: Mr. Maguire.NatashaKimLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English] We only have about 15 seconds to go, so if Ms. Prince could provide us with a slight elaboration, we can then move to Madame Lapointe.LarryMaguireBrandon—SourisCorinnePrince//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Ms. Prince.The last opportunity goes to Madam Lapointe.CorinnePrinceLindaLapointeRivière-des-Mille-Îles//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[Translation]You can ask questions until the bell rings, probably in a few minutes.LindaLapointeRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesLindaLapointeRivière-des-Mille-Îles//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, everyone.I'd like to thank the officials for coming today and providing us with this briefing on the announced 11 new rural communities that will participate in the rural northern immigration pilot.For committee members, this will now adjourn our 167th meeting and our last regularly scheduled meeting of the 42nd Parliament. I invite members to stay to meet a German delegation that is here to discuss the integration of immigrants and refugees into the labour market, and how to best attract a skilled labour force to Canada, including persons with disabilities in this challenge. If you could let the clerk know if you intend to stay, we can arrange the room accordingly.The meeting is adjourned.LaraDyer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1540)[English]I call the meeting to order. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the adequacy of enforcement and penalties for infractions of the Fisheries Act. For the first hour, by video conference, we have Bernie Berry from the Coldwater Lobster Association. From the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, we have Robert Jenkins, President, and Ian MacPherson, Executive Director. As an individual, we have Alexandra Morton, Independent Biologist with the Pacific Coast Wild Salmon Society. We'll start with Bernie Berry from the Coldwater Lobster Association. For your opening statement, you have seven minutes. Fisheries ActFisheries and fishersLaw enforcementPenaltiesBernieBerry//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Berry.We'll now go to the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association for seven minutes. Gentlemen, I don't know if you're sharing your time.BernieBerryIanMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. MacPherson.We'll now go to Alexandra Morton for seven minutes or less, please.IanMacPhersonAlexandraMorton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Ms. Morton, for that.We'll now go into our question round.I know the time, but in looking at it, we only have one witness in the second hour. Probably what we'll do is a full round of seven minutes in this part of the session, and at the end of the second hour, we'll take a few minutes just to catch up on committee business.On the government side, we have Mr. Fraser. You have seven minutes or less, please.AlexandraMortonColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fraser.We'll now go to the Conservative side and to Mr. Arnold, for seven minutes or less.ColinFraserWest NovaMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. Your time is well past. We'll now go back to the government side.Mr. Morrissey, go ahead for seven minutes or less, please.AlexandraMortonRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English] If I may respond, they were invited, but they're at a conference. They were unavailable today.RobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]It's not that they refused to come. They are actually at a conference and couldn't attend.RobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you for that.Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. Thank you to our witnesses, both by teleconference and by video conference, for your participation here this afternoon. We greatly appreciate it.Committee members, I know the bells are ringing. I believe it's a 30-minute bell. We probably could disconnect or suspend for a minute and disconnect the video conference that we've got hooked up now and get ready for Mr. McIsaac. We could get his testimony and then look the time we have left in relation to the vote. Is that agreed?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: All right. We'll suspend for a moment and allow the technicians to connect the new witness.(1635)(1640)(1640)The Chair: Apparently we're having some technical difficulties in hooking up Mr. McIsaac from B.C.I know this is our last meeting until probably well into the fall, or it may be the winter before any Fisheries and Oceans committee meets again. I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all our staff for being so supportive, including our translators. I also want to thank the committee members for being so patient. I think as a committee we operated pretty well, and for the most part in a non-partisan way, on the studies we have done. I know at times there might have been a scattered little jab here and there, but it wouldn't be any fun if that didn't take place. I want to thank even those who sub in the odd time, such as Vance, and of course our friend Robert Sopuck, who was a regular member of the committee prior to this time. It's always good to see you back. Again, thank you to everyone for making this an enjoyable committee to work on and to chair and to have any involvement with whatsoever. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!IanMacPhersonRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Yes. I wouldn't say no to you.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]I know I did say some of them were at a conference. Others were also meeting with their U.S. counterparts, and unfortunately this was left to the last minute, I think. If we had more time, I think we would have postponed the meeting if the officials weren't available, but we couldn't do that today because we agreed we wouldn't have a meeting on Wednesday. It is unfortunate, because it's always good to have the officials here and put them in the line of fire, for the lack of a better word, and we've done well with them in the past.Fisheries ActFisheries and fishersLaw enforcementPenaltiesRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English] Mr. McIsaac, we finally have you online. We have the bells ringing for a vote, but we'd certainly like to have the opportunity to hear your opening statement. We'll see how much time we have left for some questioning after that.When you're ready, Mr. McIsaac, you go right ahead for seven minutes or less. RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaJimMcIsaac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you for that, Mr. McIsaac.We can probably do a round of three minutes. That will give us three minutes to get to the House, if everybody is in agreement and can get up all the stairs quickly enough.We'll go to Mr. Hardie for three minutes or less, and I'll be very strict on the time. I might even cut you a little bit short.JimMcIsaacKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Mr. Sopuck, you have a question or two.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.I'm going to give Mr. Johns the chance for a question, or maybe two.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English] Thank you, Mr. McIsaac. I'm sorry we have to rush off. It's just getting interesting, but we have a vote in four minutes, so we have to adjourn here. I want to thank everyone and wish everyone a great summer after we rise, hopefully this week. The meeting is adjourned.JimMcIsaac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1110)[English]He doesn't predate me, I can tell you that. In 2004, my friend, it was the Paul Martin minority government, and I went from government to opposition to third party and back to government. That's one thing I've got on you—Some hon. members: Oh, oh!Mr. Scott Simms:—that I've been all around the circle.There's an old joke in Newfoundland where a Newfoundlander and, I'll say, a Hamiltonian were in the woods one day and a big grizzly bear walked out and growled and showed his teeth. The Newfoundlander bent over and started tying up his shoe and the Hamiltonian asked, “You don't think you're going to outrun that bear, do you?” The Newfoundlander says, “No, I just just have to outrun you.” The reason I bring up that story is that this is the type of business where we mark our own personal performance by the marching of others. On many occasions I find myself giving my interventions that, one, are at least understood by all and, two, using a cadence that will keep everyone's attention—at least for a short period, until I get my main point out.David did that with such absolutely astonishing ease. He made it seem so easy. The best professional athletes make their profession look easy, and David does that. He makes this profession look easy, but it's not easy. I've seen him on television and in the House and certainly at committee, and it's the passion that he brings from the grassroots to here. I say “grassroots” in the strictly political sense, from the municipal level to the provincial and now federal level.I think the past few weeks are a good way to summarize his opinion about how this place should work, because I have noticed with a great deal of angst that what has really driven him to a point of anger, which I didn't see before, was the idea of a dissenting report. Dissension was starting to get under David's skin, and it's still there perhaps. Whether or not we have a dissenting report, I think is a testament to how he wants us all to get along or, as he likes to say, “come along”.Anyway, David, you will be missed. I had a card for you here.A Voice: No. We're working on it.Mr. Scott Simms: Oh, you're working on it. All right. A Voice: A family card.Mr. Scott Simms: We're working on a card. All the best, my friend.I suspect you will not be with title, but certainly with opinion, and one that I hope you never extinguish. David, all the best.LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1120)[English] Before I do I would like to expose the.... I hope you take it in a lighthearted way, but we asked our spokesperson to be the front of our presentation to you and this card. If a spokesperson would like to—ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (0945)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Sorenson.Speaking of the work plan for 2019-20, what performance audits will you do?Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—CrowfootKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]Just the performance ones.Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralCaseyThomasCaseyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]Great. Thank you very much.CaseyThomasCaseyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]No, this is perfect.Mr. Leswick, with respect to that, are there other departments or agencies within government that have the mandate to look at the results and measures that Ms. Thomas says the Auditor General wants to have a project on instead of cybersecurity and Arctic sovereignty, and that might be better positioned to do that work?Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralCaseyThomasNicholasLeswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]Within Treasury Board is there someone—Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralNicholasLeswickNicholasLeswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]That's fair enough.Maybe Mr. Christopherson was right: maybe you were thrown to the wolves a little today.Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralNicholasLeswickDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0945)[English]It's very interesting.As to the decision to be made between doing the respect in the workplace audit, the immigration audit, and student financial assistance audit, why was the decision made to prioritize those over the things that the committee and parliamentarians have made very clear are our priorities, which would be cybersecurity and Arctic sovereignty? I think if the choice were up to parliamentarians—and perhaps it should be—I think we would reprioritize your work plan.Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreSylvainRicard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]That's interesting. You're then telegraphing, I guess, that you feel that the four you mentioned would present a greater risk to Canadians than the two you're cancelling.They're not in the top four audits that you think need to be done.Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralCaseyThomasCaseyThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English] So you're saying that, even if you had the money today, because the team isn't ready, you couldn't have delivered on cybersecurity anyway. It's really capacity within your organization over a long period of time that's preventing the cybersecurity audit from being done, because you don't have the team that's built up. This is really a longer term problem; that's my understanding of what's being said.It doesn't really seem to be anything that's related to the current funding gap. This seems to be a problem that arises entirely because, over the period of time, you did not have two technical teams for IT audits.Government expendituresOffice of the Auditor GeneralCaseyThomasKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1525)[English]I call the meeting to order. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), in our study of the implementation in Canada of a third party habitat banking framework, we have several witnesses here today. We have a couple by video conference and one in person. By video conference we have Marian Weber, Professor, Department of Resource Economics and Environmental Sociology, University of Alberta. Welcome. We also have, from Poulton Environmental Strategies Incorporated, Mr. David Poulton, Principal. He is here by video conference as well.Here in person we have a witness who is well known to all of us Newfoundlanders anyway—and to people from the mainland, as we call it—the Honourable David Wells, Senator. Thank you for being here, all three of you, by video conference and in person. We'll begin with presentations by our witnesses. We'll go first to video conference. I'd like to get that out of the way first, in case there's a problem with the connection later. Ms. Weber, when you're ready, please, you have seven minutes or less. Fisheries and fishersHabitat conservationMarianWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Ms. Weber.We'll now go to Mr. Poulton for seven minutes or less, please. MarianWeberDavidPoulton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Poulton.We will go now to Senator Wells for seven minutes or less, please.DavidPoultonDavid MarkWellsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Senator Wells.We'll now go to rounds of questioning, and we'll start with the government side. I understand Mr. Morrissey was going to go first, so we'll go now to the second one. Mr. Rogers, you have seven minutes or less, please.David MarkWellsHon.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Dr. Poulton, I have a couple of questions around your presentation. Can you speak to other jurisdictions that we can learn from when it comes to habitat banking? Also, I have a couple of follow-up questions. How long has it been in place in these jurisdictions? Can you also speak to some of the legislative complexities that go with habitat banking systems?Fisheries and fishersHabitat conservationKenMcDonaldAvalonDavidPoulton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1555)[English] In the U.S. it seems to be a fairly complex process. Legislation on habitat banking there is in excess of 100 pages. How complex is that system compared to the Victoria one that you talk about?Fisheries and fishersHabitat conservationUnited States of AmericaDavidPoultonDavidPoulton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1555)[English]I thank you for that comparison and clarification.There have been concerns raised around jurisdictional issues as well. Who do you think is important to bring into the conversation in terms of indigenous groups and communities?Aboriginal peoplesFisheries and fishersHabitat conservationDavidPoultonDavidPoulton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1600)[English]Thank you.DavidPoultonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers.We will go to the Conservative side. We have Mr. Doherty for seven minutes or less, please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Doherty.Now we go to the NDP and to Mr. Johns for seven minutes or less, please. ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. Your time is up for now. We'll now go to the government side.Mr. Morrissey, you have seven minutes or less, please. David MarkWellsHon.RobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]You have three minutes. KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.We'll now go to the Conservative side and Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Your time is up.I want to say thank you to our witnesses for appearing, both by video conference and here in person. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes to change the panel for the next hour. We have some witnesses by video conference and we want to make sure they're hooked up and ready to go. Again, thank you to everyone for appearing as witnesses here today.(1625)(1630)MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]We'll get started now on our next hour of testimony. Appearing here by video conference is Mr. Paul Norris, President of the Ontario Waterpower Association. Welcome, sir. As well, from Ontario Power Generation Incorporated, here in person we have Mr. Daniel Gibson, Senior Environment Specialist and Chair of the Fisheries Working Group in Renewable Generation and Environment for Waterpower Canada. Welcome, sir.We'll start off now with some testimony from Mr. Norris for seven minutes or less please, when you're ready.KenMcDonaldAvalonPaulNorris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Norris.We'll now go to Mr. Gibson.You have seven minutes or less, please.PaulNorrisDanielGibson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gibson.We'll go now to the government side and Mr. Finnigan, please, for seven minutes or less.DanielGibsonPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.Unfortunately, Mr. Finnigan said he was sharing his time, not splitting it.RobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Now we'll go to Mr. Calkins on the Conservative side, for seven minutes or less, please.RobertMorrisseyEgmontBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins. We will probably have to wait to get an answer from another questioner on that one. We've gone way over time.Mr. Johns, go ahead for seven minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. Your time is well up.We will now go back to the government side and Mr. Hardie. You have seven minutes or less.Go ahead, please.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.Now we will go to the Conservative side for five minutes or less.Go ahead, Mr. Arnold.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold.I'll take this time now to thank both of our witnesses, Mr. Gibson and Mr. Norris, for their presentations here today.To be truthful, I thought when we took this on that it was going to be a bit of a boring conversation, but it certainly hasn't been. It's been of interest, I have to say.Thank you both.I'm going to suspend for a minute to do a little bit of committee business to talk about what's happening next week.Thank you.[Proceedings continue in camera]MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (0905)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I was wondering if Mr. Christopherson would accept a question under the rules adopted at PROC where I might be able to make a quick interjection—DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0905)[English]The Simms, without surrendering the floor, so I could just...?Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0905)[English]First, I'd like to thank Mr. Christopherson for bringing this letter. It points to a situation that happened earlier in this Parliament when there were some questions about whistle-blower protections and the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act and the regime there, and I think an audit was referred to the operations and estimates committee. I had an opportunity to sit on this committee as a substitute in that transition.I'd also like to thank Mr. Christopherson for all the great work he's done in his time in Parliament. My understanding is that you're not reoffering this time. Is that correct?Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020MotionsOffice of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0910)[English] Even right to the bitter end, you're taking the bull by the horns on something that's important to you. I think that's wonderful.One of the things I'm trying to wrap my head around as you point to this letter is that I agree that the Auditor General manages their workload and the ability of committees to deal with their information very well. I also agree that cybersecurity is an extremely important topic, but it seems to me there's interplay among the budgets of the various officers of Parliament, and it seems a greater reliance or burden has been shifted to the Auditor General. I'm wondering what your views are on any legislative changes that might be necessary for future Parliaments to make sure the right balance between the budgets is allocated to the different officers of Parliament. Maybe the Auditor General could be allocated more or maybe they wouldn't have to have some type of a matching, and maybe there could be a very quick recommendation to the next Parliament to introduce some legislation to make sure that this gets funded.Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0915)[English]That might be a great segue for me to make another point of order under the Simms protocol, if it's permitted, Mr. Chair.Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0915)[English]I thought it was like a—DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0915)[English]You got us good there, so I thought that was a good climax.DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0915)[English]Sure. My point of order is just that I provided some more precise language that I wanted Mr. Christopherson to refresh his mind with, if he could just take five or 10 seconds to read or—KevinSorensonHon.Battle River—CrowfootDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0935)[English]I'll just make a point of order. I didn't have this language in both official languages so I wasn't able to share it, but I'll read what I do have in French. It would be two resolutions. [Translation]The first reads as follows: That the Committee recommend that funding to the Office of the Auditor General of Canada be increased annually to the cost of living/inflation rate; and, that the Committee report this recommendation to the House.[English]The second one, which is only in English, is that the committee recommend that the future government reconsider the allocation of funds as between officers of Parliament in order to ensure that the Auditor General is funded to undertake its vital performance audit on the government response to cybersecurity.Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]This is probably a good opportunity—DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0955)[English]On a point of order, I think we can sweeten the pot for Mr. Christopherson a little. If he agrees to move now into committee report consideration, over the course of the week until Tuesday, the next regularly scheduled meeting, the letter can be discussed. The order of business on Tuesday can begin with the consideration of that letter in case he's not satisfied. At least then he'll get the floor back on this item because it's like another Simms protocol olive branch. It's just so that he appreciates that he is not surrendering anything, but it does allow us to get 45 good minutes on the report consideration. Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—CrowfootKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1000)[English]We can even put a motion to the floor to that respect.Government expendituresMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Auditor GeneralDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1655)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we have a briefing on steelhead salmon in the Fraser River.I apologize to our witnesses, who have been waiting patiently by video conference to join us for testimony today. Unfortunately, we had a bunch of votes, which we have no control over, but we wanted to make sure we had a chance to at least hear from our witnesses this afternoon.Appearing today by video conference we have Mr. Eric Taylor, Professor, Department of Zoology, University of British Columbia. From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Rebecca Reid, Regional Director General, Pacific region, as well as Andrew Thomson, Regional Director, Fisheries Management. From the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development of British Columbia, we have Mr. Robert Bison, Fisheries Stock Assessment Biologist, Wildlife and Ecosystems. From the Steelhead Society of BC, we have Poul Bech, Director.We'll hear from Mr. Taylor first, for seven minutes or less, please.Fraser RiverSteelhead salmonEricTaylor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you.We'll now go to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. I'm not sure if you're sharing your time, but either Rebecca or Andrew, when you're ready, go ahead for seven minutes or less, please.EricTaylorRebeccaReid//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English] Thank you, Ms. Reid.We'll now go to Mr. Bison for seven minutes or less, please.RebeccaReidRobertBison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English] Thank you. We'll now go to Mr. Bech from the Steelhead Society of BC, for seven minutes or less, please.RobertBisonPoulBech//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you.We'll try to go long enough to get in a full round of questioning. We'll start off with the government side. Mr. Hardie, you have seven minutes or less, please.PoulBechKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.Now we'll go to the Conservative side.Mr. Arnold, you have seven minutes or less, please.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you.Now we'll go to Mr. Johns for seven minutes or less, please.EricTaylorGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]Thank you for that.Our witnesses are probably limited on time. I don't know if you have 10 minutes more. If so, we could do a three-minute round.I see people nodding their heads. Okay. I'll be strict on the time.We'll go with Mr. Finnigan for three minutes or less, please. PoulBechPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1745)[English]Thank you, Mr. Finnigan.We'll go now to Mr. Calkins for three minutes or less, please.RobertBisonBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins.EricTaylorBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]We're way over time.Mr. Johns, you have three minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns.That concludes our testimony and the questioning of our witnesses.I want to say thank you to our witnesses and at the same time apologize for the late start due to votes, but that's part of what we do here. It's unavoidable at times.We're going to suspend now for a minute just to get disconnected and go in camera for a couple of minutes of committee business and to get a couple of budgets approved.[Proceedings continue in camera]RobertBison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Indigenous Services): (0930)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.(0935)[Translation]I'm pleased to be appearing once more before the committee to discuss the main estimates of Indigenous Services Canada.I'd like to begin by acknowledging that we're on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.I'm joined by Jean-François Tremblay, deputy minister; and Paul Thoppil, chief finances, results and delivery officer.[English] Now if my French didn't wake you up....Also, I am also pleased to have Valerie Gideon here.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020MaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. PaulSeamusO'ReganHon.St. John's South—Mount Pearl//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: Before getting into my remarks, I would like to, first of all, thank members of the committee for their work over the last month studying Bill C-92 and the proposed amendments. The amendments accepted last week from all sides strengthened this bill. As many of you know, I was glad to see that it passed third reading last night unanimously. Thank you very much. Your hard work on this was really appreciated.A vital component of our government's renewed relationship with indigenous peoples is our commitment to take action and dismantle the colonial structures of the past. Since the Prime Minister's announcement on August 28, 2017, my officials and Minister Bennett's officials have been working hard to establish the necessary structures and processes to make this transformation a reality.In 2019-20, we look forward to dissolving Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada and in its place creating Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada as one department and Indigenous Services Canada as another. This change will better enable the government to continue its work on a renewed relationship with indigenous peoples based on recognition of rights, respect, co-operation and partnership. It better positions the government to build that relationship while closing the socio-economic gaps between indigenous and non-indigenous people and improving the quality of life for first nations, Inuit and Métis people. It finally responds to a very clear recommendation by the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples.Our focus at Indigenous Services Canada is working with partners to improve access to high-quality services for indigenous people. Our vision is to support and empower indigenous peoples to independently deliver services and address socio-economic conditions in their communities as they move forward on the path to self-determination.As Minister of Indigenous Services, I am continuing the important work of improving the quality of services delivered to first nations, Inuit and Métis. This includes ensuring a consistent, high-quality and distinctions-based approach to the delivery of these services. A rigorous results and delivery approach is being adopted, focused on improving outcomes for indigenous people. Over time it is our goal that indigenous peoples will directly deliver programs and services to their peoples. We are working with partners to do this. I am working my way out of a job.I would like to turn your attention to the reason that I am here today. I am now pleased to present to you my department's main estimates for 2019-20, which would total $12.3 billion if approved by Parliament. The 2019-20 main estimates reflect a net increase of about $2.9 billion, or 32%, compared to last year's main estimates. The net increase in budgetary spending primarily reflects the continuation of our investments in budgets 2016, 2017 and 2018 and in our most recent budget: all in all, investments totalling $21.3 billion to support stronger indigenous communities and to improve socio-economic outcomes.Here are a few examples of where this year's increase will help.There is $404.1 million in renewed funding for Jordan's principle: supporting children who need orthodontics, medical transportation, respite, land-based culture camps, medical supplies and equipment, educational assistance, mentorship, wheelchair ramps, vehicles, nutritional supplements.There is an increase of $481.5 million for the first nations water and waste-water enhanced program, improving monitoring and testing of on-reserve community drinking water, and building on investments that have not only led to the lifting of 85 long-term drinking water advisories since 2015, but that also keep us on track to lift all LTDWAs by March 2021.[Translation]There will be an increase of $357.9 million related to non-insured health benefits for first nations people and Inuit.There will be an increase of $324.8 million for infrastructure projects in indigenous communities.(0940)[English]There is an increase of $317 million for the first nations child and family services program, ensuring the actual costs of first nations child and family services agencies are covered fully, but also supporting initiatives to keep children and families together.There is an increase of $300.2 million for first nations elementary and secondary education, supporting a renewed approach for K-to-12 education on reserve as co-developed by us and the Assembly of First Nations. There is an increase of $113.6 million to build healthier first nations and Inuit communities, including our work to eliminate tuberculosis in Inuit Nunangat by 2030. And there is an increase of $101.1 million to advance the new fiscal relationship with first nations under the Indian Act. These investments continue to build on the work we have already done to foster a renewed relationship based on respect, co-operation and partnership. Together with indigenous partners, we are working hard to improve the quality of life for first nations, Inuit and Métis people. Through budget 2019, we are making investments in first nations and Inuit health, social development, education and infrastructure. In addition to Jordan's principle and ensuring first nations children now receive the services they need when they need them, our investments in the child first initiative ensure that Inuit children have access to the essential government-funded health, social and educational products, services and supports that they need when they need them.Budget 2019 proposes an investment of $220 million over five years to the Inuit-specific child first initiative, which will address the immediate needs of Inuit children. This investment would also support the ongoing work among the Government of Canada, Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami, Inuit regions, and provinces and territories to develop a long-term Inuit-specific approach to better address the unique health, social and education needs of Inuit children.There are also new investments to address urgent health and wellness needs to reduce suicide rates in Inuit communities. In order to deal with the ongoing suicide crisis in the Inuit communities, $5 million has been set aside to support the national Inuit suicide prevention strategy.The government is also making unprecedented new investments in indigenous post-secondary education, including 2019's proposal for $327.5 million over five years to renew and expand funding for the post-secondary student support program while the government engages with first nations on the development of integrated regional education strategies. There is $125.5 million over 10 years, and $21.8 million ongoing to support an Inuit-led post-secondary strategy, and $362 million over 10 years, and $40 million ongoing to support a Métis Nation strategy.Starting this fiscal year, a new transfer to first nations communities, entitled “Grant to support the new fiscal relationship for First Nations under the lndian Act”, more commonly known as the 10-year grant, has been implemented. More than 250 first nations expressed interest in the 10-year grant; 103 first nations were determined to be eligible based on criteria that we co-developed with first nations partners. They have received an offer, and I am happy to say that 83 first nations have now signed 10-year grant agreements.The new grant, representing $1.5 billion, is funded through the existing programs of Indigenous Services Canada and Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, which are primarily related to education, social development, infrastructure, and first nations and Inuit health programs. To ensure that the 10-year grants grow with the needs of first nations, budget 2019 proposes that starting April 1, 2020, funding for core programs and services provided through the 10-year grants will be escalated to address key cost drivers, including inflation and population growth. The 10-year grant provides communities with the flexibility and predictability needed to support effective and independent long-term planning. This initiative is a key part for establishing a new fiscal relationship that moves towards sufficient, predictable and sustained funding for first nations communities. Last, I think it's imperative for me to highlight the work of everyone involved in making progress on our commitment to end long-term drinking water advisories on public systems on reserve by March, 2021. Since 2015, a total of 85 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted, and 126 short-term drinking water advisories were lifted before becoming long term. We are well on our way to meeting our commitment. This will be aided through the 2019-20 main estimates by an additional $66.7 million proposed by budget 2019, which has been dedicated to keeping us on track. I am extremely proud of this, as all Canadians should have access to safe, clean and reliable drinking water. We have made, and are continuing to make, important changes in the government's relationship with first nations, Inuit and Métis people. While there is still a lot of work to do, our government's historic investments are making a difference in closing the gaps that exist, and improving the quality of life for indigenous peoples. I'd now be happy to answer any questions that the committee may have.Thank you, Madam Chair. Aboriginal policyAccess to post-secondary educationC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesChild first principleChildrenDepartment of Indigenous ServicesFamilies and childrenFirst NationsFirst Nations Child and Family Services ProgramGovernment transfer paymentsHealth and social servicesIndian ActInfrastructureInuitMain estimates 2019-2020National strategy for suicide preventionPrimary educationSecondary educationTuberculosis in humansWater supplySeamusO'ReganHon.St. John's South—Mount PearlMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0945)[English] You're going to have to forgive me, because I didn't get my translator on in time, and we've all borne witness to my attempts at French; my listening is not much better. I didn't catch all of it, but I think my deputy has it handy, so I'll let him speak.YvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinJean-FrançoisTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Robillard.[English]I think most of the people on this committee, if not all of you—it was a big crowd—were in that room. It was a heavy day. We're committed to ending the ongoing national tragedy of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people. To end this national tragedy, we asked the commission to identify and examine the systemic causes of violence against indigenous women and girls. They have.I think we all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to all the survivors and family members who shared their stories, because that is not easy, and some of them put their own health at risk in doing so, having to relive a lot of moments that many of them have buried. For that reason, as the Prime Minister noted in his speech, many chose not to speak. We honour them for that choice as well.This is truly quite extraordinary; it hit me yesterday. This is a national inquiry, the first of its kind, and I was quite taken by the number of provincial governments that were represented and that accepted copies of the report. We have a lot of work to do. We are committed to a national action plan, as you heard the Prime Minister say yesterday, and that's called for by the inquiry to implement the recommendations to make sure they're distinctions-based; that they're flexible. As have all our efforts thus far, we know they must be developed in partnership with first nations, Inuit and Métis governments and organizations, the families of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, and the survivors.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and GirlsYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-Fortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0945)[English]As a formal part of the inquiry, I did not receive those testimonies, but I've received many testimonies in my travels from people who have been involved in very similar circumstances. They are deeply aggrieved; they feel deeply wronged. They feel the loss of a loved one. We have to get through this report meticulously, and we have to work quickly. We all understand that we only have so much time left in this session.Some things we've worked on that are very much in keeping with the report, which, again, passed third reading last night and is an extraordinary piece of legislation because it was developed in partnership with indigenous peoples, I think will go a long way in the area of child and family services to finding solutions that indigenous people will develop themselves.Department of Indigenous ServicesFamilies and childrenMain estimates 2019-2020National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and GirlsYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0950)[English]I don't think there's any question that we have a lot of work to do. I think some of those recommendations overlap with actions that our government is currently taking, so we have to read the report methodically.We accept the recommendations in the report in their entirety, and now we have to decide what that national action plan will be. That will require a lot of vigorous work, I think, not only on the part of Minister Bennett's department and my department, but all departments, for the most part.As you well know, I've said here before committee that every minister has in his or her mandate letter a commitment to reconciliation, and it is something that is going to require the efforts of the government.Action Plan to Address Family Violence and Violent Crimes Against Aboriginal Women and GirlsDepartment of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0950)[English]Thank you, Mr. Waugh, for your hope and optimism.KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0950)[English]Of drinking water, yes.KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0955)[English]No, no. We are on track to make this happen. We're doubling down on our efforts.I'll let Paul take the floor to give you some quick figures. I've also been to, for instance, Piapot nation in northern Saskatchewan and Piapot had theirs burn down. We have a new temporary one that is up and running, with staff who are tremendously proud of the amount of training they've gone through and that they are able to provide the fixes that are needed to make sure that community.... I think there might be a notion that many of these communities are close together. Some of them, as you well know, out your way—it was an eye-opener for me—are quite spread out, so there's quite a bit of work involved.At Piapot, they are very proud of the fact that they have that training on the ground. I then turned to this position, this belief—having seen it in other places—that you cannot simply build these things and walk away. If they are going to work, then you have to have people trained and on the ground and ready to make the fixes as they are needed. Also, a team of people provides meaningful employment.The only way you're going to solve it on an ongoing basis is to make sure that there is training provided on the ground. That is already happening, and that was the commitment of the department.Paul has some numbers. You read them out, Paul.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020Water supplyKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0955)[English]You're right to point out that it's a big challenge; it's huge.Jean-FrançoisTremblayMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0955)[English]Yes.Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst NationsHousingMain estimates 2019-2020NikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook Aski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0955)[English]Thank you for the question, Ms. Ashton, and I would simply say that how you've characterized this is wholly untrue.We have certainly done quite a bit. We came into government with 86,000 houses, that was our shortage. We have built or repaired 14,000 so far. That is not nothing; it is certainly not nothing to the people who live in those houses. Do we need to do better? Yes. Are we going as fast as we possibly can, given capacity issues? Yes. It's $600 million over three years to first nations, so far—$600 million; $500 million, over 10 years, for Métis nation housing; $400 million over 10 years for Inuit-led housing. It's the largest investment in housing, I would venture to say, in federal government history. It will be ongoing.Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst NationsHousingMain estimates 2019-2020NikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook Aski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1000)[English]I don't know if you do, though. Those are big numbers.NikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook Aski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1000)[English] We will continue to build houses as fast as we can in partnership with nations, in partnership with Inuit and in partnership with Métis. We work with them on the ground to determine their needs. It was only, I think, last week that I was in Whitedog and walking through homes where there were five families in a three-bedroom house with the living room converted into another bedroom and two newborns less than one month old. There is no question that we have a significant challenge ahead of us. We have increased our efforts at a level that the federal government has never seen. We will keep hard at it until we have provided adequate housing and proper housing to everyone who needs it.Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst NationsHousingMain estimates 2019-2020NikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1000)[English]We've done, I think, significant work in providing shelter and women's shelters on reserve across the country. We need to step up those efforts. I think we need to make sure that we never have situations again where indigenous women who are fleeing a bad place, an abusive house or—Department of Indigenous ServicesFamilies and childrenMain estimates 2019-2020Northern CanadaGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1000)[English]Well, through new funding, we are enabling greater access to mental health supports, cultural supports and emotional supports for those survivors, for families, for those impacted. We saw that yesterday at the closing ceremony with individuals who wore purple shirts there assisting survivors, family members and attendees. They were there providing those supports to people who were present.We remain committed to supporting survivors and their families as they seek answers. I mean, systemic institutional failures led to this tragedy.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020Mental healthGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1005)[English]I will quickly say that our government was the one who initiated this unprecedented national inquiry because we understood the importance of this national tragedy. We have a lot of work to do with provinces and territories to make sure that we have that response time available to families. I know that the RCMP is creating a special unit that responds to requests from the national inquiry on specific files.Department of Indigenous ServicesFamilies and childrenMain estimates 2019-2020MaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. PaulMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1005)[English]Not that I'm aware of, no. Not even close.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1005)[English]Most definitely.I'll leave it to these guys to maybe provide you with specific numbers. I can certainly say that it is amazing to me. In the past number of months, when I've dealt with leadership, despite the significant challenges that they still face in their communities, their bands and their regions, they understand now and have confidence that this money is coming. They appreciate things like the 10-year grant, which I'm quite aggressive in promoting when I meet with leadership who have not yet applied. It allows them the ability to know about and plan for the next 10 years. They are not having to reapply every year, and fill out paperwork for a program or something on an annual basis. I think there are enough people around this table who have worked for non-profits, or have worked in places where you are constantly reapplying for government funding. The fact is that you have a limited pool of people in small communities who are doing this hard and meaningful work. If you can make sure that they spend more time concentrating on closing the gaps and making their communities more prosperous for all, instead of filling out paperwork needlessly, year after year, program by program, that is real. That is energy and time that they can now be dedicating toward the people, the quality of life of their people and the future prosperity of their people.That is a very real and significant movement. Leadership now, knowing and feeling some assurance that our commitments are real, are feeling them on the ground. They are not where they need to get to yet, as the national chief keeps reminding me. He's quite right. This is not parity. Progress is not parity. We're not there yet.They want to talk more about the issues of economic development. They're looking at wanting to become self-sufficient communities: “We do not want to be relying on government. We want to increase professional capacity within our communities. We want to be the ones doing the heavy lifting.” It is really quite heartening to see that corner being turned by some leadership.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1010)[English] Prevention is part of the cure, yes, and that also speaks to the increased capacity that we've been able to develop on the ground, that these can be identified quickly and that we have the resources now. Again, the resources are not enough—otherwise we would have everything done by tomorrow, but this is simply not how it works—but we do have a much stronger capacity on the ground to address these things as they come.Did you want to speak any further to that?Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020Water supplyMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonJean-FrançoisTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1010)[English]We'll submit them to you, Ms. McLeod. Jean-FrançoisTremblayCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English]We'll submit them.Department of Indigenous ServicesMain estimates 2019-2020CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English]In terms of our employees, I don't—CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English]It is. I'm just not entirely sure if it's with a particular individual that you're talking about, so let's submit that.Department of Indigenous ServicesEmergency preparednessMain estimates 2019-2020CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English]Done.Department of Indigenous ServicesEmergency preparednessMain estimates 2019-2020CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English] I wouldn't constitute it necessarily as a failure on anybody's part. I would simply say that we had a deal. I was on the phone with the chief the night before. We were speaking to him then. The deal was fairly detailed, as I had done with Kashechewan and Cat Lake. There is a lack of trust in many of these communities, so they need to know—and have every right to know—timelines for specific project developments and have them costed. When we spoke the night before we were in agreement on all of those issues. When I arrived in community, they had changed. That happens; it's a negotiation. I've been in this job now long enough to say that's just all part of negotiations. But certainly, we went there with a deal. We expected to sign a deal. The community had a community feast ready to go. The chief and his support staff changed their minds. Based on those changes, we want to come up with a meaningful response, because I'm determined to get this done—for those who are living with the effects, we believe, of mercury poisoning, for people who are living apart from community. We want them back in community, where we feel they can be better, where they can be closer to their families. I'm determined to make that happen. If we had been able to have that deal done last week, shovels would be in the ground now. I was ready to move. We'll have to keep hard at it. This is the nature of negotiation, but I'm determined to get it done.Department of Indigenous ServicesGrassy Narrows First NationMain estimates 2019-2020CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (1015)[English]No. I'm not sure what the fine line is between the two, but certainly, that's what we were going for. We were talking about two different facilities, in fact.Department of Indigenous ServicesGrassy Narrows First NationMain estimates 2019-2020CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1535)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, May 1, 2019, Bill S-238, an act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins), with regard to clause-by-clause consideration, there was nothing changed. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, the short title and preamble, is postponed. I will call the vote.(Clauses 2 to 4 inclusive agreed to)The Chair: Shall the short title carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the preamble carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the title carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the bill carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the chair report the bill to the House?Some hon. members: Agreed.Clause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeePrivate Members' BillsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)Senate billsSharkKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English] That was short and sweet.Now we'll suspend for a minute to go in camera.[Proceedings continue in camera]Clause-by-clause studyPrivate Members' BillsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)Senate billsSharkKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1530)[English]Thank you, Ms. Stubbs.In light of your motion, consideration of which was postponed on Tuesday, April 30, 2019, and which I understand you would like to debate now, I move for unanimous consent that David de Burgh Graham be appointed as acting chair of the committee for the duration of the consideration of Ms. Stubbs' motion only. Do we have unanimous consent?Some hon. members: Agreed.Committee businessShannonStubbsLakelandDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.While I, obviously, take some issue with a lot of the axioms that underpin Ms. Stubbs' motion, the motion itself is largely fine.I do want to reassure her that in a similar context, when investors had pulled out of the Hibernia oil field development back in the eighties and nineties, Canada came in and invested, and it turned out to be one of the best investments, from a return-on-capital perspective, that the Government of Canada ever made. Those investments now are, under the Atlantic Accord, paid back to Newfoundland and Labrador on an ongoing basis for the life of the field. Ultimately, I would like to see, at some point, a situation where British Columbians and Albertans get to benefit from this what I hope will be an excellent investment.I also take some issue with the concerns about foreign direct investment because, of course, Canada's been a world leader in that now during our tenure in government.Missing from her statement, of course, was Tsleil-Waututh Nation et al. v. Attorney General of Canada et al—the citation for that at the Federal Court of Appeal is 2018 FCA 153—which makes it pretty clear where the problems lie and whose process failed and had the injunction that required Canada to step in to save Albertans and this project.We would be delighted to have the minister come to speak to all these matters and be able to give Canadians confidence that this was the right decision.In fact, Ms. Stubbs has said June 20, 2019. I would propose to amend that slightly because it may be possible to do it earlier, and we would actually like to make it clear that it will happen as soon as possible following the announcement on the decision.If she would accept that friendly amendment that he appear before the committee as soon as possible following the announcement of the decision by the Government of Canada on TMX....Committee businessMotionsTrans Mountain pipelineDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]Is it on June 18, 19, 20 or 21? I have no idea. I can't tell you what day it's going to be.Committee businessDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleShannonStubbsLakeland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]Even if the decision is made on that date, I don't know what date it's going to be announced, so I wouldn't be prepared to commit to that. What I'm saying is as soon as possible after the announcement. I also want to make sure that it's televised, so if there's some requirement that all the television feeds are not available to us on June 20, we have June 21 so that this can be televised.Committee businessShannonStubbsLakelandShannonStubbsLakeland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]We ran into that issue at the Liaison Committee earlier today where other committees complained about the fact that television broadcasting facilities had been given to other committees. I'm not sure what's going to happen on June 20 in that regard. I do want to make sure that it's televised and that it happens as soon after as possible.Committee businessShannonStubbsLakelandShannonStubbsLakeland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1540)[English]I'm happy to have the question called on the amendment, and then we can have it on the motion as well.Do you need me to read out my amendment again?David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1540)[English]Rather than saying “on June 20, 2019”, it would say “as soon as possible following the announcement of the decision on TMX by the Government of Canada”.Committee businessJamieSchmaleHaliburton—Kawartha Lakes—BrockJamieSchmaleHaliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1540)[English]I appreciate Ms. Stubbs' frustration, but I'm not privy to the information. I know that actually oftentimes the opposition feels that we are privy to things that we aren't, but we really have tried to maintain this deferential view on the work of the committees and the work of the government. If Mr. Hehr has a better view on it, I'm happy to hear it, but I am not privy to it. This is something that I think is actually even better than what Mrs. Stubbs has asked for, so I was quite surprised that it's causing a problem. Also, it gives us an opportunity to make sure that it's broadcast, which I know is very important for Mrs. Stubbs. Also, it allows us to handle any issues regarding whether if the House rises we can come back and have the meeting. This is important. We want to debate this. We want to have this come before our committee as soon as possible following the announcement, but I don't want to commit to something when I don't know whether or not it's true. That's not the way I roll.Thank you.Committee businessDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1545)[English]I can answer your question.JamieSchmaleHaliburton—Kawartha Lakes—BrockJamieSchmaleHaliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1545)[English]Okay, great.It wasn't just televised and making sure that the decision is already made, but also, if the decision is made at such a time that we couldn't have a televised hearing while the House is in session, we would actually be able to come back.So, the way I've changed this, we will come back as soon as possible to have this meeting after the announcement. There are a lot of reasons why the decision might yet again need to be extended if it's to save us from the same fate that plagued us last September. I want this project to be passed with sufficient accommodation for indigenous people, like everybody else, but I also want this meeting to happen.What I'm saying, without insider knowledge of any of what's going on, is that the way I've structured the amendment is to make sure we have a meeting with the minister after the decision is made. The way that Mrs. Stubbs proposes it, it could possibly be that the decision has not yet happened, the minister still comes, we have our meeting and it's really not getting us the answers to the questions we want.I appreciate that, if it doesn't happen on the 20th as Mrs. Stubbs is hoping, or on the 18th, that will give her great fuel to do lots of press. She will still have those opportunities. But, what I want to see happen is a meeting with the minister after the decision has been announced, regardless of when that decision is announced, so that we have an opportunity to discuss things that are on the public record with the minister. Thank you.Committee businessDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1555)[English] Let's go straight to a vote.(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])Committee businessDecisions in committeeMotionsTrans Mountain pipelineDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleShannonStubbsLakeland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1555)[English]I'll seek unanimous consent that David de Burgh—Mrs. Shannon Stubbs: It shuts me up more when I'm sitting over there.ShannonStubbsLakelandJubileeJackson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1200)[English]Thank you, Chair. Thanks everybody. Thank you to our guests. I will go on a bit of a rant. Obviously I'll put my bias on the table. I'm co-author or partial author of this particular motion. I hope to get a chance to talk about my aspect of it. I know it was brought up earlier. I'll answer your question when I get to there I guess, Madame Lapointe.ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsLarryBagnellHon.YukonLindaLapointeRivière-des-Mille-Îles//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1200)[English]I don't doubt it.I want to talk about catching the Speaker's eye. This goes to Ms. May's thing, but before I get to a question, there comes a point when it becomes so obvious that something is wrong here that it behooves us to actually look at this and say, “Come on; this is a bit much.”I spoke about this when we had a press conference about what Frank is doing here.Frank, thank you for being here. I'll give you one example in the day, which is called S.O. 31s. We all call them S.O. 31s. People come me and they say, “Oh, you mean members' statements.” No, I mean party statements, because that's what they are, right?Now, I have no problem with any recognized party or non-recognized party stating it's where we're all in the House. Obviously the party mechanism is really what controls the functions of government and it's how we relate to each other. It's even a part of my proposal on committee chairs. But for 15 minutes of a day, can we not have the freedom by which I get to say, “I represent my constituents, and here's what I have to say”? The retort to that from the office is this, “But we balance it: we do this, we do that”, and I can say congratulations, but that's not the point. The point is this. If Ms. Kusie wants to do a one-minute statement about carbon pricing and anti-government, then that should be her choice. If somebody comes to Ms. Kusie and says, “I want you to do this nasty little bit of work toward the government”, and she says no, that slot goes to Mr. Nater or Mr. Reid or Mr. Chong or whoever's next. That's not a member's statement, is it? Not at all. Ms. Kusie has every right to stand up and hammer the government in a one-minute statement. She also has the right to talk about a local charity in her riding, and so on and so forth.That's 15 minutes of the day. This goes to what Ms. May said about the proliferation of control from a centre that exists within this Parliament more so than any other parliament around. We can't even get 15 minutes.In saying that, let me go back to catching the Speaker's eye. There's also another side to that as well. Let's say you catch the Speaker's eye for members' statements, question period, government debates. There comes a point where there's going to be a little bit of chaos in there because you do have this dilatory motion that a member be now heard. You've heard that before. We've had motions where, when someone gets up to speak, someone gets up, moves a motion that someone else be heard, the whole thing shuts down, we vote. It's a delay tactic, but it happens.If we had the entire day, do you think that would happen?Dilatory motionsProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsLindaLapointeRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1205)[English] Yes, it's an endangered species sort of thing.I agree with many aspects of it. I'm just trying to find.... I don't want drastic changes as part of this; I want modest changes. My goodness, the example I gave at the top of my question is just a modest one. I also agree with you on the speech part. I believe that in other chambers, the members take it upon themselves to heckle people if they start reading from notes exclusively. I've always said, if you can't stand in the House of Commons and talk without notes for 10 minutes, you shouldn't be there, but that's a whole other issue.How much time do I have?ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1205)[English]Oh, I thought you said “some”.Some hon. members: Oh, oh!LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1205)[English]There's no pressure now, whatsoever. Mr. Baylis, where does the next Parliament start, with what you've presented here? What do you want to see the next Parliament do, in changing the Standing Orders?That's a question for both of you. ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsLarryBagnellHon.YukonFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English] I'd be remiss if I didn’t say that the only person who has actually followed the time here has been Madame Lapointe.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1635)[Translation]I want to welcome everyone to the 163rd meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. We're pleased to be joined by Ahmed Hussen, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.[English] I'd like to welcome Mr. Kmiec today. I'd also like to congratulate normal standing member Michelle Rempel on her nuptials to Major Sergeant Jeff Garner. We wish her all the best and happiness. That explains her absence today.Although we had originally been scheduled from 3:30 with the possibility of overflow to 6:30, I believe the consensus among members is to proceed for a full 51-minute round of questions with Mr. Hussen. After that, we'll dismiss the remainder of the witnesses and go into committee business on the usual motions. Without further ado, I call upon the minister to present his opening remarks. Minister, you have nine minutes. Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationImmigration and Refugee BoardMain estimates 2019-2020AhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.I would just remind everyone that the normal rules of this committee are those of the House. On matters of decorum, we usually allow some flexibility to speak directly with the minister, but if things get a little bit heated, as they sometimes do in this committee, we'll address the normal points of order and we'll have the questions then directed through the chair.Without further ado, I would ask Mr. Tabbara to begin the first seven-minute round.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Excuse me, Mr. Minister.We see that the lights are flashing. There has been a notice of motion for the production of papers. The vote will be in about 29 minutes. It's just a couple of floors above us, so I believe that we could probably get to the end of the first round and then resume our meeting after the vote, if we have unanimous consent.Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Wonderful. We have about a minute and 15 seconds. Minister, you were still answering the question.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you.Mr. Tilson, for seven minutes.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]The interpreters require that only one person speak at the same time. The normal rule in the House is that a question and answer should have about the same duration. I think the minister has provided about the same length of a response as the question, so I'd turn the floor back to Mr. Kmiec for the next question. TomKmiecCalgary ShepardTomKmiecCalgary Shepard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you very much. We move now to Ms. Kwan.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]There's just over a minute for the response.JennyKwanVancouver EastLoriMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]You have just 15 seconds.JennyKwanVancouver EastAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]I believe we've received a commitment to get an answer.Ms. Jenny Kwan: Okay. So my last question—The Chair: Actually, there's no more time. It's 7:01, so we'll go to our last seven-minute round before we head upstairs for votes.I will note, as we finish this round with Mr. Sarai, that immediately after the votes we'll come back here. I believe the minister has agreed to come back and do the final 23 minutes of questioning, so Ms. Kwan, you'll get your three minutes to follow up on that issue later.Mr. Sarai.JennyKwanVancouver EastRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.As agreed with unanimous consent...those who are watching will see that the lights are flashing faster, which means we're getting closer to the vote. I believe we should all be able to be back here by 5:30 to commence the meeting promptly and then hopefully complete our work by 6 p.m.The meeting is suspended for the next 15 or so minutes.(1710)(1730)AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonNickWhalenSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English] I now call for the resumption of the meeting.We have a five-minute round and a three-minute round remaining.Again, I remind members that the time available for a response should be roughly that provided during the question, so we can keep things running smoothly. Short questions mean more questions.Mr. Kmiec.NickWhalenSt. John's EastTomKmiecCalgary Shepard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]Sorry, I think I can rule quickly. Because you did bring the PBO into the question, it brings it within the scope for discussion on the main estimates. But I do acknowledge that I think we've received the same answer to the same question many times, and I think everyone understands that this is in fact the answer.Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationImmigration and Refugee BoardMain estimates 2019-2020TomKmiecCalgary ShepardTomKmiecCalgary Shepard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]Mr. Kmiec, I've already ruled that your question is in order, and you are allowed to proceed now with the remainder of your time.Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationImmigration and Refugee BoardMain estimates 2019-2020TomKmiecCalgary ShepardTomKmiecCalgary Shepard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]This is a five-minute round. You have about 50 seconds.TomKmiecCalgary ShepardTomKmiecCalgary Shepard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]Thank you. I think we'll have to wait until the next round of questions to get an answer to that.I move now to Ms. Zahid.TomKmiecCalgary ShepardSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.We now move to Mr. Tilson.Before we start the clock, I just want to thank you, Mr. Tilson. I know that you served as chair of this committee in the 40th and 41st Parliaments and, seeing as this is very likely the last televised session of this committee, I'd just like to thank you for that service and for the excellent work you have done in this 42nd Parliament. Some hon. members: Hear, hear!AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1745)[English]One final brief question, Mr. Tilson.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1745)[English]Perhaps we will get an answer to that question with the next member or perhaps the member will choose his own questions.Mr. Arseneault.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRenéArseneaultMadawaska—Restigouche//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.Ms. Kwan, for the final three minutes.AhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English] You have a little less than 50 seconds.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]I'm sorry, Ms. Kwan. The time to ask the question and the time to give the answer should be about the same.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Thank you very much. That comes to the end of the testimony from the minister. I'd like to thank you and your officials for making yourselves available, especially in light of the very difficult voting and other interruptions.We will now move to committee business in adopting the estimates, or not, with some routine motions.Under the main estimates 2019-20, we have votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 35 under Department of Citizenship and Immigration, and votes 1 and 5 under Immigration and Refugee Board.DEPARTMENT OF CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATIONVote 1—Operating expenditures.........$797,460,552Vote 5—Capital expenditures.........$22,242,541Vote 10—Grants and contributions.........$1,775,345,121Vote 15—Enhancing the Integrity of Canada's Borders and Asylum System.........$160,430,000Vote 20—Improving Immigration Client Service.........$18,000,000Vote 25—Helping Travellers Visit Canada.........$24,384,000Vote 30—Protecting People from Unscrupulous Immigration Consultants.........$11,250,000Vote 35—Providing Health Care to Refugees and Asylum Seekers.........$125,120,000(Votes 1, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 and 35 agreed to on division)IMMIGRATION AND REFUGEE BOARDVote 1—Program expenditures.........$148,584,137Vote 5—Enhancing the Integrity of Canada's Borders and Asylum System.........$56,850,000(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)The Chair: Shall I report the main estimates 2019-20 to the House?Some hon. members: Agreed.Some hon. members: On division.The Chair: Thank you, all, for your co-operation today, especially unanimous consent to allow these meetings to proceed and end on time. The meeting is adjourned.Decisions in committeeDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationImmigration and Refugee BoardMain estimates 2019-2020Recorded divisionsAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1145)[English]I thought you were going to recognize me.LloydLongfieldGuelphLloydLongfieldGuelph//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1525)[English]I call the meeting to order. Good afternoon, everyone. Pursuant to the standing order reference of Wednesday, May 1, 2019, we are considering Bill S-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins).We have a number of witnesses with us here today. From the Department of the Environment, we have Carolina Caceres, who is the manager of international biodiversity in the Canadian Wildlife Service. From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, we have Paul Gillis, director general for strategic policy.From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Doug Forsyth, director general of market access, and Helen Fytche, director of procurement, trade and environment.Welcome to all of you, and thank you for taking the time to be here today.I want to welcome back Mr. Donnelly , who is subbing in for his friend Mr. Johns. I'd also like to welcome Senator MacDonald, who sponsored this bill in the Senate and is here today for the proceedings. We'll start with the presentations from our witnesses. I believe, Mr. Gillis, you are going to use the time allocated. Private Members' BillsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)Senate billsSharkPaulGillis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]All right.When you're ready, you'll have seven minutes or less. PaulGillisPaulGillis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gillis.We'll now go to the government side and to Mr. Hardie for seven minutes or less, please.PaulGillisKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.As a point of clarification, you said that a fisherman can bring it in if it's part of a bycatch. Do they need any special licence if it's part of a bycatch? I know that if some fishermen are fishing cod in Newfoundland, for example, and they catch halibut as part of a bycatch, they are not allowed to bring it in. Whether it's dead or alive, they have to throw it back in the water. Really, there's no licence needed, but if they do catch a shark, they have to bring the full one in. BycatchFisheries licencesPrivate Members' BillsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)Senate billsSharkKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsPaulGillis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you.Now we go to Mr. Doherty for seven minutes or less, please.PaulGillisToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you.Now we'll go to Mr. Donnelly for seven minutes or less, please.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.We go back now to the government side. We have Mr. Fraser for seven minutes or less, please.FinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fraser.Now we go back to the Conservative side. Mr. Arnold, go ahead for five minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins.We'll now go back to the government side with Mr. Morrissey, for five minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1605)[English]I've just one question, really.This is so unethical and so wrong, and we're trying to do something about it here in Canada, yet you can see online imports of shark-fin soup used for special occasions or as a luxury item in Chinese cuisine and so on.Is what we're doing here going to be impacting what's going on in this industry? If we're going to continue to import these kinds of products into our country from other sources and if we ban that, what kind of impact would that have on the international stage?Crime preventionImportsPrivate Members' BillsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)Senate billsSharkRobertMorrisseyEgmontPaulGillis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Mr. Doherty, you have five minutes.DougForsythToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Okay, you've heard the motion. Do you have copies for everybody, Mr. Calkins?BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] It is outside of Bill S-238, but it did come up in conversation with the witnesses.Committee businessS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)ColinFraserWest NovaColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]It was the socio-economic impact of....Committee businessColinFraserWest NovaColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]I'll allow the motion to stand. We'll vote on it, unless there's further discussion.An hon. member: I would like a recorded vote, Mr. Chair.The Chair: Go ahead, Mr. Fraser.Committee businessFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you for that, Mr. Fraser. Is there any other discussion? (Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)The Chair: The motion is defeated.Go ahead, Mr. Calkins.Mr. Blaine Calkins: Thanks, Chair. Am I out of time?The Chair: You're way out of time.Mr. Blaine Calkins: Well, I might be. Thank you, Chair.The Chair: Mr. Rogers, you were on the list. Are you still going to ask questions, or did you get it done? You're saying you're done.British ColumbiaChinook salmonCommittee businessDecisions in committeeEconomic impactFisheries policyHunting and sport fishingMotionsRecorded divisionsColinFraserWest NovaKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.Now, for three minutes or less, we have Mr. Donnelly.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]It's only your time that expires in three minutes, not you.FinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamCarolinaCaceres//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.I will say thank you to our witnesses for appearing. That concludes our hour of testimony and questioning. Thank you again to the department officials for being here today. It's great to see such co-operation on such short notice. Hopefully, we'll see you all back sometime soon. Thank you.We're going to suspend for a few minutes while we switch over to committee business.[Proceedings continue in camera]PaulGillis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings (Long Range Mountains, Lib.): (1125)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.First of all, good morning and thank you to all our witnesses for their preparation and for being here this morning. As my colleague recognized, things are a little different in the east. I was fortunate to be here on Tuesday past, and as we heard from the witnesses who were here, climate change is having a huge impact, with the ice in the straits and the impact on the Marine Atlantic ferries. That comes into play, too, with the tunnel conversation we're having.To the three witnesses here, I'm curious as to what you think the first step should be in developing a fixed link.TransportationTransportation infrastructureJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1130)[English]Great. Thank you.Mr. Villeneuve, what is the link between a fixed link and your Great Northern Port project? How do you see the two linked together?Ports and harboursTransportationTransportation infrastructureDannyDumaresqueDanielVilleneuve//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1130)[English]That's wonderful.Do you think there's enough population and business opportunity? I might be a little biased because I'm from that area, but I'd love to hear the opinions of all of you on this. Do we have the population base to do it? Do we have the business opportunities there? Can this be an enticement for people to come home?Ports and harboursTransportationDanielVilleneuveFrancois-XavierMorency//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1130)[English]Wonderful.Mr. Villeneuve, do you agree with Mr. Dumaresque that it should be an RFP concept or business model?Invitation to tenderTransportationTransportation infrastructureFrancois-XavierMorencyDanielVilleneuve//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1130)[English] Mr. Dumaresque, I know you've done research for many years. There have been concepts of putting cars on railbeds to go over, there's a drill and blast, and there's the bore technique. What would your recommendation be from your many years of travelling the world and seeing different tunnelling?TransportationTunnelsDanielVilleneuveDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1140)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Welcome to our guests.I have some questions, primarily about the presentation by Mr. Dumaresque and Mr. Villeneuve.Danny, I know you've had tunnel vision for 30 years now.TransportationTunnelsJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English]When we talk about that new link, as I guess you want to call it, to Canada through the northern peninsula—and I have heard this before—that would complete what we call the circular route, from Quebec City through to Labrador and across the northern peninsula back to Quebec City via Marine Atlantic.We hear differing views in terms of cost savings and the impact on the Marine Atlantic service in terms of efficiency. I'm thinking about access to the island from mainland Canada in times of difficult weather conditions, when Marine Atlantic is not operating.In the overall picture for the circular route, how do you see this as being a really good benefit for the province?Mr. Dumaresque.TransportationTransportation infrastructureDannyDumaresqueDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English]When you look at the overall scope of this project—the costs associated with building it, the cost recovery that you talked about and so on, and the value for the entire eastern region of Canada including Quebec, the Atlantic provinces, Newfoundland and Labrador—is it a very positive thing, from your perspective?TransportationTunnelsDannyDumaresqueDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1145)[English]If I'm reading this right in terms of the overall project, the key thing here is that there have to be some solid partnerships between federal and provincial governments—the Province of Quebec and the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador—and maybe the private sector to make this project become a reality.You talked about cost. I've heard some numbers that are exorbitant, like $4 billion. Where do these kinds of numbers come from, compared to the numbers that you're presenting here today?TransportationTunnelsDannyDumaresqueDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1145)[English]Nobody does feasibility studies. Do they just do RFPs?Invitation to tenderTransportationTunnelsDannyDumaresqueDannyDumaresque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.): (1155)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to thank all of our guests for being here today, and for your presentations. I'm going to direct my question to Mr. McCrank and Mr. Campbell. First of all, Mr. McCrank, you talked about merging boards. You felt that it was the right direction to go in at the time, but you provide us with no justification of where that recommendation would have come from. We know that since 2014, indigenous governments in the Northwest Territories have not supported that recommendation under the previous bill.Do you feel that not allowing indigenous governments to have the right to make those decisions and recommendations but to have them in place is the right process to go through? I'm just appalled that there was no way you could justify the recommendation you put forward.Aboriginal peoplesAgriculture, environment and natural resourcesC-88, An Act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsGovernment billsMackenzie ValleyCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooNeilMcCrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1155)[English]Okay. The only thing I want to ask you, Mr. Campbell, is whether you support the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. What Bill C-88 is doing is giving those rights and protections to indigenous governments, to ensure that they have a say in the activity that happens in their land claim areas. Do you support that declaration? In doing so, do you support the amendments in Bill C-88?Aboriginal rightsAgriculture, environment and natural resourcesC-88, An Act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsGovernment billsMackenzie ValleyUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesNeilMcCrankCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1250)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you all for your presentations today and for being here. I really appreciate it.I just want to ensure that a couple of things are clear on the record.First of all, in response to some of the questions that were asked by my colleagues, yes, the Liberals voted in support of the bill because the bill was about devolution. It was overall support for devolution that we endorsed at the time. Also at that time, we made a commitment that we would revert the changes that were arbitrarily being imposed upon the Government of Northwest Territories, its citizens and indigenous governments. That's what we're doing today. I want to clarify that as well.What I find ironic about Bill C-88 is that the only dissenting voices we've really heard around this bill have come from the south and not from the north. It leads me to believe that we might actually have gotten this right, which is a good thing.I read a letter that was submitted by Premier McLeod and Grand Chief Mackenzie that outlined the need to have the changes in Bill C-88 passed and implemented in this session of the House. I'd like to ask both of them if they could speak to that today and to the urgency to have those changes legislated in Canada.Thank you.Agriculture, environment and natural resourcesC-88, An Act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsGovernment billsMackenzie ValleyCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1255)[English]Thank you.There was a question around intervenor funding. To clarify, in the north, in particular for the three territories, there is a separate program. It's a $10-million program over five years that allows for indigenous governments to have intervenor status in all environmental nature projects. Because this bill was primarily in the north, whereas Bill C-69 is all across Canada, it allows for a different clause. I wanted to point that out. There's no reason to think that funding is not going to be there for the long term. That's the intention of it.My next question, if there is time, is with regard to the changes to the resource development act. I live in a province where co-management of oil and gas has allowed our province to grow. While the moratorium might be seen by some as an impediment to development, what we've been able to accomplish because of taking the time to do it right, I see as being a true asset. I would ask Premier McLeod if he could speak to the process that they're engaged in with the federal government to ensure that the Northwest Territories gets the appropriate royalties on resource development through oil and gas. Agriculture, environment and natural resourcesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsC-88, An Act to amend the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsGovernment billsMackenzie ValleyOil and gasRoyaltiesGeorgeMackenzieCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1600)[English] We're resuming the 161st meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration and recognizing Ms. Kwan on a point of order.AsylumJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]In terms of the process that's happening at the back end from a technological and a translation perspective, the documents have been received. The clerk of our committee and the clerk of the finance committee are working together to make sure there's no duplication of efforts in the translation, so that there will be a single official translation of the chain letters or the individual submissions that have been received.It may be appropriate in paragraph 2 of our letter to the finance committee to insert an indication of that. In the letter that we have previously discussed, we could insert a sentence right before we say, “Their contribution to this study has been very valuable and informative.” We could insert, “The committee has also received over 2,200 letters from Canadians on this topic.”Ms. Kwan.AsylumStatisticsJennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]There's no real motion before the floor now. There has been a general discussion between Ms. Kwan and me on an appropriate way to address the letter.AsylumJennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Is there any discussion on how and whether we refer the correspondence? Everyone should have a copy of the letter before them. It doesn't have any indication in the form letter as to the content or form of the type of testimony or documents we've received. I open the floor to discussion about how we address this issue.AsylumJennyKwanVancouver EastMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Ms. Kwan.AsylumMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—HespelerJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English] The motion is that the committee order the clerk to share the documents received, these communications received, with the finance committee. I would indicate that the clerks are already coordinating on this point. Is there unanimous consent for that order?Mr. Tilson.AsylumJennyKwanVancouver EastDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Our very wise clerk has anticipated your question. The order that she's drafted would read, “That the clerk share all the correspondence and briefs received...” with regard to divisions 15 and 16 to the Standing Committee on Finance.As you rightly point out, it wasn't just this correspondence that was received. There were also written briefs received from our witnesses. (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])The Chair: Thank you very much. Seeing no further business, I call this meeting number 161 of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration adjourned. AsylumMotionsDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1620)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. We'll get started with our first set of witnesses.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are holding a briefing session on seafood mislabelling. In our first half hour we have, from Oceana Canada, Kimberly Elmslie, campaign director, and Lesley Wilmot, communications director. As well, as an individual, we have a former employee of Oceana Canada, Julia Levin. Welcome.I don't know who has opening remarks. You're going to share the time? Okay. When you're ready, Lesley, you have seven minutes or less.Allegations of fraud and fraudBriefing sessionsFish and seafoodFood labellingLesleyWilmot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you for that.Julia, I don't know if you had a presentation to deliver. KimberlyElmslieJuliaLevin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Okay. I know you were listed as an individual, so I wanted to give you that opportunity.JuliaLevinJuliaLevin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]At first I didn't know how much time we were going to have, but it looks like we could probably do a seven-seven-seven minute round before we reach five o'clock. Mr. Morrissey, you have seven minutes or less, please.JuliaLevinRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Now we go to the Conservative side, and Mr. Doherty, for seven minutes or less, please.JuliaLevinToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]I think I'd rather see it go to the clerk and distributed to everybody.Allegations of fraud and fraudFish and seafoodFood labellingToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]You have two minutes.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]I'm not taking his time; I'm telling him he's gone over time.Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]You have three minutes.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]There are a couple of minutes left. I have a question I'd like to ask. You were talking about traceability and knowing which fish is in it. In Newfoundland and Labrador, we get processors—I have one company, Ocean Choice International, for example, in my riding, and Mr. Rogers has Icewater Seafoods Inc.—who talk about the MSC certification and the fact that the label can tell you when it was caught, where it was caught, when it was processed and where it has gone to. Does that type of certification and labelling help eliminate the illegitimate labelling of seafood products?Allegations of fraud and fraudFish and seafoodFood labellingQuality controlGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniJuliaLevin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]I'm just glad to know that the companies that operate locally in my riding are doing this—Allegations of fraud and fraudFish and seafoodFood labellingJuliaLevinJuliaLevin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]—to a higher level of confidence.Allegations of fraud and fraudFish and seafoodFood labellingJuliaLevinJuliaLevin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you to our three witnesses. It's been an informative half hour or so. When this was first put forward for study by Mr. Morrissey, I was thinking it was going to be a bit on the boring side, but it's not. It's great information that you're providing, and something that I think most of us didn't realize was happening, especially with the illegitimate valuing of something that's $95 a pound when there's a $20 per pound product in the package. Allegations of fraud and fraudFish and seafoodFood labellingJuliaLevinRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Ask quickly, please.RobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you for that. We'll suspend for a moment to change our witnesses. (1655)(1700)JuliaLevinKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]All right, we'll start again.Next up for presentation is the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. We are joined by Lyzette Lamondin, the executive director of the food safety and consumer protection directorate, policy and programs. Now that's a title and a half.Whenever you're ready, you can start with your opening statement, for seven minutes or less, please.KenMcDonaldAvalonLyzetteLamondin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Now we'll go to the government side and Mr. Hardie, for seven minutes or less, please.LyzetteLamondinKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Go ahead.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Now to the government side, we have Mr. Calkins for seven minutes or less.LyzetteLamondinBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]I'm just teasing you.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Mr. Arnold, you have three minutes.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Now we'll go to Mr. Johns for seven minutes or less, please.LyzetteLamondinGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns, and thank you to Ms. Lamondin for being here this afternoon. That concludes our session today. Again, thank you one and all.The meeting is adjourned.GordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1545)[English]It's great to hear from you guys on what the government is doing on the innovation side. I was hoping to maybe get some of your general overall views or just some facts to put on the record about the current opportunities for Canadian petroleum-based energy in the market. Could you guys provide some statistics or some information on what the global market looks like for oil and gas between now and the end of the century, when we hope not to use it anymore, and how much of that oil consumption at that time could or should come from Canada? Oil and gasJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreChrisEvans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1550)[English]Do you see potential benefits in the market from the way carbon is being priced around the world that would see lower output pollution costs resulting in benefits for different types of oil that might be produced here, say, at offshore Newfoundland to the detriment of Alberta oil? And how much is that starting to play a role in the marketplace and in global consumers' decisions on where they're sourcing their hydrocarbons from? Carbon taxOil and gasChrisEvansChrisEvans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1550)[English] That's fair enough.ChrisEvansFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1550)[English]When my constituents write to me—and it's more of a political question—they want to know how Canada can continue to participate in the market while living up to its environmental commitments. I want to get a sense of where we see our markets in the future. Do you see a decline in North Sea production as an opportunity for Newfoundland to pick up some market share? How are we on the greenhouse gas emissions side; how do we compare with the North Sea, the Middle East and with South America, Venezuela in particular?Greenhouse gasesOil and gasFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1550)[English]That's good to hear.It's difficult for Canadians to wrap their head around the sheer volume of oil production in Alberta and what that means and how important it is. When we talk about pipelines and getting the volume of this commodity to market, it's difficult for Canadians to picture how much benefit TMX will have in the mix of the distribution of this oil to markets versus Keystone XL, and difficult for people to understand why energy east is no longer on the table.If Keystone XL and TMX come online, will that solve the problem Alberta has in getting its current production levels to market? Is there a potential future role for energy east to help Alberta expand its production and get even more resource to market?Oil and gasPipeline transportationFrankDes RosiersChrisEvans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]Mr. Evans, we talked earlier about the NEB's projections for future production capacity. It seems to me that it's one of those instances where there's a lot of yin and yang between distribution capacity and expected production. There's no strategic petroleum reserve or a place to store large amounts of oil in Alberta to provide that buffer so that people can ramp up their production beyond what's available for distribution beyond the province.Is there capacity for oil and gas to be expanded beyond the current distribution capacity? Would the NEB be in a position where...? Did the report mention that production could expand beyond the forecasted distribution amounts but that it cannot, because there's nowhere to store the oil?Oil and gasJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreChrisEvans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings (Long Range Mountains, Lib.): (1145)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.I believe I have six minutes.Judy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1145)[English]Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing today. A warm welcome to Mayor Gros and Mayor Spencer and Councillor Lane from the Long Range Mountains. Mayor Gros, it was interesting that each one of our witnesses today spoke of climate change. I'd like to ask you to take a couple of minutes to tell us how climate change is affecting you in terms of differences in the Anchor Point and Strait of Belle Isle area, especially these past few years?Climate change and global warmingTransportationJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekGerryGros//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1145)[English]We won't ask your age, Gerry. Mayor Spencer, congratulations. You have a new vessel. It's the first time in 30 years, I believe, that Marine Atlantic has given you a new vessel, so we're looking forward to seeing that in Port aux Basques. Can you please give the committee a few comments on how you're seeing climate change affect your area? I know you have that Vardys Island issue, so perhaps you could elaborate on that for a minute or two.Climate change and global warmingTransportationGerryGrosJohnSpencer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1145)[English]You referenced some numbers in your presentation, but overall there has been an increase in goods and services as well. The cost of living for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, because of the cancellations and the deterioration of product.... You mentioned the fresh fruit. I believe over 90% of the fresh fruit in Newfoundland and Labrador comes in. Has the Town of Port aux Basques and the Town of Anchor Point, and the areas that would be impacted by a tunnel, met with you to talk about how the circle route would be beneficial to all?TransportationTransportation infrastructureJohnSpencerJohnSpencer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1150)[English]We hear you on the fuel surcharge, Mayor Spencer. You and I chat regularly, so I'm familiar with that. Again, the fuel surcharge was hopefully to get the vessels more environmentally friendly and better fuels to do that, but we will address that.Another question I have for you—JohnSpencerJohnSpencer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1150)[English]Well, we're going to run out of time, my love.Some good news from Marine Atlantic was the appointment of a new CEO. Can you tell us how you think that's going to have a benefit for Marine Atlantic, the whole operation?Board of directorsFerriesTransportationJohnSpencerJohnSpencer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88292GudieHutchingsGudie-HutchingsLong Range MountainsLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/HutchingsGudie_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Gudie Hutchings: (1150)[English] I believe that your new CEO, Mr. Hupman, has been around Marine Atlantic for a long time and will bring a different lens, so it's great—I'm assuming that you think it's great—to have some local knowledge and someone very familiar with Marine Atlantic operations.FerriesTransportationJohnSpencerJohnSpencer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1200)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Welcome to all of our guests, particularly our Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.I want to focus my questions on Mayor Gros and Mayor Jones.I'll go first to Mayor Gros, or Gerry, I should probably say, after knowing you for so long.You talked about some of the challenges and why you think it's necessary for us to seriously consider the potential of a fixed link across the straits. You talked about the bad weather, climate change, wind conditions, ice, and the challenges those pose for trade and transportation for people in your region of the province. You also made reference to new business opportunities.Mayor Gros, what do you see as the major economic benefits of a fixed link, if it were to become a reality, for your community and for western Newfoundland and Labrador, and of course, the entire province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and Quebec?TransportationTransportation infrastructureJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekGerryGros//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1200)[English] Thank you, Mayor Gros.The question now, Mr. Jones, is going to you. Mayor Gros referenced Route 138, of course, in order to make this potential fixed link viable or to have any economic impact.Have you, as mayor of your community, made representation to your Quebec provincial government to complete Route 138? If so, what is their response to your proposal? Are you optimistic that anybody is listening to this request to complete 138 for the benefit of your region, so that you don't lose any more communities and you can protect your culture? You've talked about loss of culture and so on.Of course, I'd like you to also comment on the economic benefits that would go with completing Route 138.Highway 138Road construction and repairTransportationTransportation infrastructureGerryGrosRandyJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1200)[English]Wabush.RandyJonesRandyJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1205)[English]Mayor Jones, if I could interrupt, I thank you for that. Could you just give me a snapshot—The Chair: Make it very short.Mr. Churence Rogers: —of what you think your region would look like if Route 138 were completed?Highway 138Road construction and repairTransportationTransportation infrastructureRandyJonesRandyJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1225)[English] Mr. Greer and Mr. Davis, what kind of impact do you think the completion of Route 138 and a fixed link to the island of Newfoundland from Labrador would have on the economy of that entire region and Quebec?Highway 138TransportationTransportation infrastructureJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekRyanGreer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1000)[English]Sorry, it's not a point of order. I just want to ask a question. KarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—LondonKarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1000)[English]I want to have my five minutes, if that's possible.KarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—LondonKarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1000)[English]I wasn't trying to interrupt. Sorry.KarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—LondonKarenVecchioElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Thank you very much for the nomination, Mr. Scarpaleggia. I'll now suspend while we go in camera.[Proceedings continue in camera]Election of the Chair and Vice-ChairsEvelynLukyniuk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1525)[English] Good afternoon, everyone.Welcome to our regular committee meeting, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), main estimates 2019-20, votes 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 under Department of Fisheries and Oceans, referred to the committee on Thursday, April 11.I'd like to start off by welcoming the Honourable Jonathan Wilkinson for making himself available today. I believe the minister's here for an hour, and then the officials will stay for the second hour to partake in questioning.I'd like to welcome the officials: Timothy Sargent, deputy minister; Jeffery Hutchinson, commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard; Philippe Morel, assistant deputy minister, aquatic ecosystems sector; Jen O'Donoughue, assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer; Andy Smith, deputy commissioner, strategy and shipbuilding; Adam Burns, director general, fisheries resource management; and Mark Waddell, director general, fisheries and licence policy.Minister, we'll give the floor to you to start off with, for your opening remarks. I believe you're going to be handing off the opening remarks to one of the officials.When you're ready, the floor is yours.Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020JonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you for that. We'll go right to our questioning now to the government side. We have Mr. Fraser for seven minutes or less, please.JenO'DonoughueColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you.Now we'll go to Mr. Doherty for seven minutes or less, please.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]That's your time. Thank you, Mr. Doherty. Before I move on to Mr. Johns, I would ask that you be aware that interpreters are having some trouble keeping up when people are speaking really fast. Please co-operate with the interpreters so they can keep up with the conversation.Mr. Johns, the floor is yours, for seven minutes or less, please.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English] Thanks, Mr. Johns. Your time is up.We'll now go to the government side.Mr. Finnigan, you have seven minutes or less, please.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.We're back to the Conservative side now. Mr. Arnold, five minutes or less, please.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Give a very short answer, please.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapJonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold.I'll now go to Mr. Rogers for five minutes or less, please.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Minister, for being here, and to all of your officials.Minister, Clearwater Seafoods recently signed an agreement with several communities—actually, 14 Mi'kmaq communities in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador—on the future of the surf clam industry. This agreement fulfills commitments to reconciliation and keeps jobs in my riding—in the town of Grand Bank and on the Burin Peninsula. I have followed this file closely and worked with all involved, particularly the local union and Clearwater.I'm wondering if your department has reviewed this agreement. Where do you see the future of the surf clam industry going, keeping in mind the economic importance of the surf clam to Grand Bank and the Burin Peninsula?Clearwater Atlantic Seafoods Inc.Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Stimpson's surfclamsKenMcDonaldAvalonJonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1615)[English]Thank you, Minister. I want you to know that, as I have already indicated, I fully support this proposal. It keeps jobs in my riding.Mr. Minister, earlier this spring, there were proposed cuts of up to 30% in the crab quotas in Newfoundland and Labrador. During that time, I met with hundreds of fish harvesters throughout my riding in the most impacted areas. There was a severe concern about cuts of this size. I was pleased to see the size of these cuts reduced in this particular instance. Many harvesters said their catch rates were excellent last year. They are reporting to me that, so far this year, they are even better. I believe fish harvesters need to be consulted before the precautionary approach is administered. Could you comment on the process behind your precautionary approach, its implementation, and the way in which local harvesters' knowledge will be incorporated into this process?CrabsDepartment of Fisheries and OceansFisheries quotasMain estimates 2019-2020JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverJonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1620)[English] Minister, I appreciate that answer. I really want to emphasize the importance of having the knowledge of harvesters as an integral part of anything we do going forward in this industry.Minister, the harvesters in the two particular areas where I get a lot of recommendations and information from—Bonavista Bay and Trinity Bay, in my riding—report that the crab quotas this year.... The harvest has been tremendous. It's been plentiful, and it's been quick. They've done extremely well. As you talk to scientists and to people in the department going forward, I want you to keep the information in mind that the harvesters are bringing to my attention.CrabsDepartment of Fisheries and OceansFisheries quotasMain estimates 2019-2020JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverJonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1620)[English]Thank you.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Now to Mr. Calkins, for five minutes or less, please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins.Now we'll go back to the government side and Mr. Fraser, please, for five minutes or less.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Minister, do you have any minutes left? I was hoping to get to the NDP for a couple of minutes.JonathanWilkinsonHon.North VancouverJonathanWilkinsonHon.North Vancouver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Again, Minister, thank you for making yourself available today. I understand the officials are going to stay for the next hour, so we'll continue on with questioning.We'll suspend for a moment while the minister is saying his goodbyes.(1630)(1635)GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]We'll start again and get into the next hour.I will remind everyone that we are extending a little bit at the end for some committee business. We're going to extend for 15 minutes or so.We go now to questions for the officials from the Liberal side. Mr. Fraser, you have seven minutes or less.KenMcDonaldAvalonColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Now we go to the Conservative side. Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. You've gone over the time.Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.TimothySargentGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Now we will go to Mr. Morrissey for seven minutes or less. I believe you are sharing your time.JenO'DonoughueRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.I think you said you were either sharing or splitting. I know you're not splitting; you're sharing.You have a minute and a half left.Mr. Finnigan.JefferyHutchinsonRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]You have 20 seconds.TimothySargentPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Now we'll move to Mr. Arnold, for five minutes or less, please.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold.We will now go back to the government side. We have Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please. MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Your time is up, I'm sorry. You can't jump in like that.Mr. Sopuck, you have five minutes or less, please.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.Now to the government side. Mr. Rogers, you have five minutes or less, please.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Hutchinson, I want to focus on the lifeboat stations that you talked about, particularly because one of these is in my riding, in Old Perlican. I know there are designated spots like Twillingate and St. Anthony. I know some great progress has been made. Harvesters, mariners and people in the recreational sailing industry and commercial industry are really pleased to see this new facility and the security and the services it's going to provide for these mariners.When do you anticipate that this lifeboat station will be completed and fully operational?Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueKenMcDonaldAvalonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]When you say next season, do you mean in the fall?Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueJefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]Okay. I know that construction seems to be going really well. People in that community and along that coastline are excited about it.What about the Twillingate site and St. Anthony? I understand that St. Anthony is just a renovation of and improvements to the current site. Twillingate is a new site as well.Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueJefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]Thank you very much for that.Also, we haven't received any particular notification of the official opening of the St. John's rescue centre that was returned and restored to St. John's after it was closed by the previous government amid great disappointment and protest by harvesters, mariners and certain individuals like Merv Wiseman, who I can recall championing that cause. It was also a major issue during the last federal election.Are you aware of when there might be some kind of official event or grand opening announcement for that particular facility, which is going to provide a crucially important service to the east coast, particularly to Newfoundland and Labrador?Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueJefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]Again, thank you for that. I'm just excited about the fact that it's going to be reopened, of course. I would love to have the opportunity to attend that kind of event.Looking at the St. Anthony and Twillingate facilities, I think about the kind of service that you as Coast Guard provide in terms of icebreaking during the springtime. We've had major ice conditions again this spring. I'm assuming that's not going to be part of your duties, that the regular bigger boats, icebreakers like the Louis S. St-Laurent and others, will continue on with the schedule they're on nowadays.Department of Fisheries and OceansIcebreakersMain estimates 2019-2020JefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1720)[English]Will these lifeboat stations be staffed 24-hour services or on call? How will those operate?Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueJefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1725)[English]Is that with a very short response time?Department of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020Search and rescueJefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1725)[English]Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity.JefferyHutchinsonJefferyHutchinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1725)[English]That's impressive. Thank you, sir.JefferyHutchinsonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers. You did mention you were going to share or split your time, but I guess you forgot that.I'll go to Mr. Johns now, for three minutes or less, please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Yes, exactly.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. You were trying to slip in another one there.I'll say thank you to our witnesses for giving us two hours of their time today. It's greatly appreciated by the committee. The information you've provided I'm sure will be of great value. I'm sure we'll see some of you back again in the near future.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]We have some motions on this that we have to get passed. We're voting on the main estimates 2019-20. We have to do this first. We're not into committee business yet. We're still on the votes on the mains.DEPARTMENT OF FISHERIES AND OCEANSVote 1—Operating expenditures..........$1,727,118,371Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$801,787,391Vote 10—Grants and contributions..........$293,046,191Vote 15—Canada's Marine Safety Response..........$11,336,025Vote 20—Fisheries and Oceans Canada-Advancing Reconciliation..........$5,069,400(Votes 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 agreed to on division)The Chair: Shall I report the main estimates to the House?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: We'll suspend now to go in camera.[Proceedings continue in camera]Decisions in committeeDepartment of Fisheries and OceansMain estimates 2019-2020TimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1130)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you, Minister and officials, for being here today.Minister, I want to focus on the issues of transportation pertaining to Newfoundland and Labrador, of course, which is predominantly done by flights or ferry service. Marine Atlantic provides an important constitutionally mandated ferry service to the citizens of my province. Recently we have been faced with challenges in terms of rates set by Marine Atlantic and cost recovery rates, which some believe are too high. Many residents are concerned about the affordability of this crucially important ferry service to my province. Could you comment on the process undertaken to ensure the affordability of the constitutionally mandated service that we have?FerriesMain estimates 2019-2020Marine Atlantic Inc.Newfoundland and LabradorJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1135)[English]I appreciate trying to find a balance in all of that, but I think there's a general sentiment across the province from the business community, tourism operators and others that the current rates are an impediment to people coming to the province. We've seen marked improvement in tourism in the province, but people still believe that affordability is an issue, and they suggest we may need to take a closer look at the cost-recovery rates.I'm glad you mentioned the new ferry, because I wonder how that fleet renewal approach is going to impact the operations of Marine Atlantic and the services it provides.FerriesMain estimates 2019-2020Marine Atlantic Inc.Newfoundland and LabradorMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1135)[English]It's positive from your perspective?FerriesMain estimates 2019-2020Marine Atlantic Inc.Newfoundland and LabradorMurrayHupmanMurrayHupman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1135)[English]Thank you very much.During our ongoing study on trade and transportation logistics, Minister, we've heard from witnesses such as the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council on the need to harmonize transportation regulations, and in budget 2019 the Government of Canada announced that through the road safety transfer payment program, it would support the provinces and territories in their efforts to harmonize road safety and transportation requirements.How does the government plan to support the provinces and territories, specifically in harmonizing these regulations regarding the weight and size of freight trucks?Harmonization of standardsMain estimates 2019-2020Road safetyMurrayHupmanMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1610)[English] Hello, everyone, and thank you for coming to the 159th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. We have one less than a full quorum of people, but based on our rule for reduced quorum, we do have enough people to proceed. Our third motion at our first meeting says:That the Chair shall be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and to have that evidence published when a quorum is not present, provided that at least three (3) members are present, including one member of the opposition and one member of the government.Without further ado, and to assist our witness from Washington whose access to the teleconferencing commitment might expire, I will ask Susan Fratzke of the Migration Policy Institute to present her opening remarks for no longer than seven minutes. Thank you.Committee businessMotionsSusanFratzke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1615)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Fratzke.We'll now move on to the Canadian Council for Refugees. Will Ms. Roque or Ms. Dench be presenting?SusanFratzkeJanetDench//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1615)[English]You have seven minutes.JanetDenchJanetDench//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1625)[English]Thank you for your comments. We will now proceed to Mr. Brian Crowley, Managing Director of the Macdonald-Laurier Institute.ClaireRoqueBrian LeeCrowley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1630)[English]I'll ask you to conclude quickly, Mr. Crowley. Brian LeeCrowleyBrian LeeCrowley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1630)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Crowley.Moving on with our testimony, we have Karen Musalo, Professor, Hastings Law, from the University of California. Ms. Musalo.Brian LeeCrowleyKarenMusalo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1635)[English]Excuse me for one moment, Ms. Musalo. The lights are flashing, which implies that votes are going to be happening in about 30 minutes.With the unanimous consent of the committee, we can at least permit Ms. Musalo and Mr. Bhatti to provide their testimony under the abbreviated rules, and then, after the votes, we'll return for our in camera business meeting.Do I have unanimous consent?Committee businessKarenMusaloJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1635)[English]My understanding is that at least one of our witnesses is unable to remain past 5 p.m., and if we do not have our business meeting at 5 p.m. we won't be able to table the report on the work that we've already done on settlement services.With your consent, we can continue for the next 14 minutes, but on return it will be an in camera session, which is necessary to do the work of approving motions related to this study as well as instructions to the analysts so they can do their work. Do I have unanimous consent?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Thank you.Thank you, Ms. Musalo. We'll continue with your presentation.Committee businessJennyKwanVancouver EastKarenMusalo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1640)[English]Thank you very much.Unfortunately, there won't be any questions today, I believe we've learned.Mr. Bhatti.KarenMusaloPeterBhatti//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1645)[English]Thank you very much to everyone for your presentations. I believe our vote is in 19 minutes. If there is unanimous consent, we can proceed with one question from each side for no more than two minutes, I believe, in order to get upstairs.Okay, we'll proceed with one question each. Mr. Sarai.PeterBhattiRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1650)[English]Thank you, Ms. Musalo.Ms. Rempel.KarenMusaloMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1650)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Rempel.Ms. Kwan.PeterBhattiJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1650)[English] Thank you, Ms. Roque. With the last two minutes, I'm not sure if the members on the Liberal side have a different question or would allow Ms. Roque to continue her answer.Mrs. Zahid, you have the final two minutes.ClaireRoqueSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1655)[English]Thank you very much. There are 45 seconds left of Liberal time, so I'll use the chair's prerogative to ask a question. If an amendment to section 306 were to clarify that an oral hearing is guaranteed, would that allay at least some of your concerns?Ms. Dench, you appear to want to answer that.ClaireRoqueJanetDench//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1655)[English]And that draws this abbreviated meeting to a conclusion. If any of the witnesses have additional responses they wish to make to us in writing, they may do so. Thank you.The meeting is adjourned.JanetDench//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Before we get started, the bells are ringing, but we have about 21 or 22 minutes before the actual vote. I was wondering if we at least could hear the presentation of the witnesses for the seven minutes. Then we'd go to the vote and come back. That way, we'd be ready to go with the questioning if everybody's in agreement to that. We'll hear the presentations first, then we'll suspend to go and vote, and then we'll come back. Okay? All right.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing the study of aquatic invasive species. Today we have with us officials from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans: Philippe Morel, Assistant Deputy Minister, Aquatic Ecosystems Sector; Hélène Marquis, Executive Director, Fisheries Protection Program and Major Projects; Brent Napier, Chief, Enforcement Programs; and, Simon Nadeau, Senior Adviser, Ecosystem Science. You may make your opening statement, for seven minutes or less, please, when you're ready, Mr. Morel.Invasive speciesPhilippeMorel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morel.We'll suspend now to go and vote. We'll return as quickly as possible. I encourage everybody to try to get back as soon as they can after the vote.(1540)(1615)PhilippeMorelKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] Welcome back, everybody.For everyone who was here for the first seven minutes of the committee meeting, we did hear the presentation of the witnesses, and we're now ready to go into our question round. Mr. Donnelly has his hand up. Mr. Donnelly.KenMcDonaldAvalonFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Is it the motion that you gave notice of on Bill S-238 ?Committee businessS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Yes. It has to be dealt with.Do you want to read out your motion again for everybody?Committee businessS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]We've heard the motion. Is there any discussion?Mr. Calkins.Committee businessS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Mr. Donnelly.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Mr. Calkins.FinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]The clerk tells me that he doesn't have that information today, but it's my understanding right now that what's before us is simply the motion. We can still vote on the motion. The committee, as the mover of the motion has stated, can dictate the timelines of what takes place here with regard to studying the actual bill. Then, of course, it has to go back to the House.Committee businessS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Okay.Mr. Arnold.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English] Mr. Donnelly.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Hearing nothing else, I'll call the question on the motion. (Motion agreed to)The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.Now we'll get into our questioning of the witnesses. For the first round, on the government side, Mr. Rogers.Clause-by-clause studyCommittee businessDecisions in committeeMotionsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1620)[English]Mr. Chair, first of all, I'll thank our witnesses for being here. I was looking at some of the numbers, Mr. Morel, that you referred to in your presentation. Some of the previous witnesses talked about how there was an uneven distribution of funding across the country for dealing with invasive species. It appeared that 80% of the funding was directed at central Canada and the Great Lakes. I just wondered, have you looked more recently at redistributing some of that funding, and if so, how is it distributed today?Invasive speciesKenMcDonaldAvalonPhilippeMorel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1625)[English]Okay.The other question I was wondering about is that some of the people talked about the preventive approach, of course, and trying to protect their waterways and their different regions of the country, whether it's from the zebra mussels or other invasive species. What is being done to protect regions from these invasive species being transported into our regions and our country from other sources?Invasive speciesRisk managementPhilippeMorelPhilippeMorel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1625)[English]You also mentioned in your presentation the coordinated effort of Fisheries and Oceans with Transport Canada regarding ballast water shipping and so on. Is that something of major concern, or is that something that's under control, from your perspective?Ballast waterInvasive speciesPhilippeMorelPhilippeMorel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1625)[English]Okay, thank you.PhilippeMorelKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers.Now we'll go to Mr. Arnold for seven minutes or less, please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English] Thanks, Mr. Arnold. Your time has gone way over. The lights are blinking, so I guess the bells are ringing. Do I have unanimous consent to continue for another 15 minutes?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay.Ms. Mathyssen, you're up next. You have seven minutes or less, please. MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Mr. Calkins, do you want to speak to that motion?IreneMathyssenLondon—FanshaweBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]It's not germane to our discussion, so I guess it's not in order, per se. I'll rule it not in order. Would you like to change it to a notice of motion, Ms. Mathyssen?Committee businessDecisions of Committee ChairsMotionsS-238, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (importation and exportation of shark fins)SharkBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Okay. Thank you. Please continue with your questioning. IreneMathyssenLondon—FanshaweIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Sorry, Ms. Mathyssen. Your time has gone over. Now we'll go to the government side.Mr. Finnigan, you have seven minutes or less, please.IreneMathyssenLondon—FanshawePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Mr. Morrissey.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.Before I adjourn, I will advise the committee that the second hour that was normally scheduled for today will now take place on May 15, just so we know where we are, and that is the drafting instructions for invasive species and version two of striped bass.Thank you to our officials for their attendance here today. It's greatly appreciated.Thank you to the members.The meeting is adjourned. SimonNadeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1530)[English]It being 3:30, I call to order the 158th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Today we begin our consideration of part 4, division 16, of Bill C-97, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measures.For this first session, we have Minister Blair and his officials with us. My understanding is that Minister Blair has a presentation of a little less than seven minutes. We will start immediately with that and, hopefully, we can get our full 51 minutes of questioning in.Minister Blair.C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresRefugeesBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1535)[English]Thank you very much, Minister.As members are aware, we'll do our best to restrict the questions and comments to part 4, division 16. But this is discussion and commentary on the budget, so people will appreciate that it might be a bit further ranging than that.Mr. Tabbara.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1545)[English]Ms. Rempel.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1550)[English]You have about 25 seconds.MichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1550)[English]Ms. Kwan.MichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1555)[English]You might get back to that in your final three minutes, Ms. Kwan.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1555)[English]We may get back to that in your final three minutes, but you're at seven minutes already. JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1555)[English]We'll go over now to Mr. Sarai.JennyKwanVancouver EastRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1605)[English]You have just 20 seconds, Mr. Sarai.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1605)[English]That's great. As we move to our next round of five minutes, I do recognize that the time belongs to the members and they can use it however they wish, but I hope we can be respectful and try to keep the questions related to the legislation before us.[Translation]Welcome, Mr. Paul-Hus. You are not a regular member of the committee, but I'd like to hear your questions.If you'll be speaking French, anyone needing interpretation should put in their earpiece.RandeepSaraiSurrey CentrePierrePaul-HusCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1610)[English] In 45 seconds, please.PierrePaul-HusCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesBillBlairHon.Scarborough Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1610)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Ossowski.Mr. Ayoub, you may go ahead.JohnOssowskiRamezAyoubThérèse-De Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1615)[English]With the last four minutes, I believe we can move now to a combination of Ms. Rempel sharing her time with Mr. Maguire. Ms. Rempel.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1620)[English]There won't be time for an answer to that question, but maybe Madam Zahid will ask a similar type of thing.LarryMaguireBrandon—SourisSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1625)[English]We have a final three-minute round of questions from Ms. Kwan.BillBlairHon.Scarborough SouthwestJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1630)[English]Ms. Kwan, can you be very quick with your question? Your three minutes is up, but if the minister is prepared to stay and answer it, he can.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1630)[English]Thank you very much, Minister. We'll recess for one minute while we clear the table. My understanding is that your officials are staying for the next hour.Thank you.(1630)(1630)JennyKwanVancouver EastNickWhalenSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1630)[English]We'll now have an opportunity to continue with ministerial officials on the questioning we've just had with Minister Blair regarding part 4, division 16 of the budget implementation act, 2019.I believe the first opportunity to ask questions of the officials is Mr. Sarai's.Mr. Sarai.NickWhalenSt. John's EastRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon. Maybe someone will give you an opportunity to finish the answer.Mr. Tilson.PaulMacKinnonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1645)[English]You have about 20 seconds left, Mr. Tilson.LoriMacDonaldDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1645)[English]Ms. Kwan.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1650)[English]You have just 25 seconds, but I do note this was answered in response to a question by Mr. Sarai.JennyKwanVancouver EastJohnOssowski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1655)[English]We'll move on to Ms. Zahid.JohnOssowskiSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1655)[English]Are you sharing your time with Mr. DeCourcey?SalmaZahidScarborough CentreSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1700)[English] Ms. Zahid, you can continue for another minute and a half. I believe Mr. DeCourcey has access to Mr. Tabbara's time. PaulMacKinnonSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1700)[English]We are now moving on to five-minute rounds, beginning with Mr. Maguire.JohnOssowskiLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1705)[English]Thank you, Ms. MacDonald. Hopefully, we can get some more examples in the next set of questions.We move now to Monsieur Ayoub.[Translation]You have the floor for five minutes.LoriMacDonaldRamezAyoubThérèse-De Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1710)[Translation]Unfortunately, Mr. Ayoub, we don't have enough time for the witness to answer the question.RamezAyoubThérèse-De BlainvilleRamezAyoubThérèse-De Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1710)[Translation]If Mr. Tilson asks the same question, we'll get an answer.[English] Mr. Tilson.RamezAyoubThérèse-De BlainvilleDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1715)[English]Mr. Tilson, that's a wonderful question, but I'm afraid that you've reached your five minutes. I'll be moving on now to Mr. DeCourcey.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonMattDeCourceyFredericton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1720)[English]Respond very briefly, please.MattDeCourceyFrederictonLouisDumas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1720)[English]Perhaps you could go for four minutes if you would like, Ms. Kwan. Mr. Maguire and I will each take a minute at the end.LouisDumasJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1725)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1725)[English] Those were your four minutes.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1725)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Kwan.Mr. Maguire.JennyKwanVancouver EastLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1725)[English] Ms. MacDonald, is the amount allocated in the budget for the delivery of this program the amount that was recommended by your department, or is it a lesser amount?RefugeesLarryMaguireBrandon—SourisLoriMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1725)[English]Thank you very much. We will recess for people to grab some dinner and recommence at the scheduled meeting time of 5:30. (1725)(1735)LoriMacDonaldNickWhalenSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1735)[English] Thank you for coming to this third round of the 158th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, where we're discussing part 4, division 16 of Bill C-97, the 2019 budget implementation act. We just finished meeting with Minister Blair and ministerial officials on this part of the budget. We'd like to thank Christian Leuprecht, professor in the department of political science at the Royal Military College of Canada; Nafiya Naso, from the Canadian Yazidi Association; and Jean-Nicolas Beuze, a frequent flyer to our committee now, from the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and its representative in Canada, for being with us today. Mr. Leuprecht, if you are well settled after your late train, I'll begin with you or we can begin somewhere else. C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresNickWhalenSt. John's EastChristianLeuprecht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1740)[English]Please, you have seven minutes.ChristianLeuprechtChristianLeuprecht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1745)[English] Excuse me, Mr. Leuprecht, you're speaking fast, and it makes it difficult for the interpreters to—ChristianLeuprechtChristianLeuprecht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1745)[English]Thanks, Mr. Leuprecht. You've managed to squeeze that in. However, if you have that particular recommendation in writing, we can table it. ChristianLeuprechtChristianLeuprecht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1745)[English]Thank you.Ms. Naso.ChristianLeuprechtNafiyaNaso//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1750)[English]Thank you for your comments, Ms. Naso.Mr. Beuze.NafiyaNasoJean-NicolasBeuze//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1800)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Beuze.Thank you to all of our guests for keeping their presentations timely.We'll begin now with Mr. Sarai.Jean-NicolasBeuzeRandeepSaraiSurrey Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1815)[English]I'll now move on to the next round of questioning.Ms. Kwan.NafiyaNasoJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1825)[English]Thank you, Mr. Beuze.Jean-NicolasBeuzeJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1825)[English] Mr. Ayoub, for seven and a half minutes.JennyKwanVancouver EastRamezAyoubThérèse-De Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1830)[English]Mr. Leuprecht, maybe I'll just use the chair's prerogative for the last 10 seconds here. Did you want to add something to the last point that Mr. DeCourcey made?NafiyaNasoMattDeCourceyFredericton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1830)[English]How long is your answer?MattDeCourceyFrederictonChristianLeuprecht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1830)[English]Mr. DeCourcey, I think we're done here now. Thank you very much.We'll take a quick break and then invite the next and final panel up. Thank you.(1830)(1835)MattDeCourceyFrederictonNickWhalenSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1835)[English]We're now calling the fourth panel of the 158th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration to order.With us for this hour from Amnesty International Canada are Justin Mohammed and Marilynn Rubayika, and appearing for the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers, we have Lobat Sadrehashemi.Each of your organizations will have an opportunity to give a seven-minute presentation, followed now by one round of seven-minute questions, I believe.We'll open with Amnesty International, please.NickWhalenSt. John's EastJustinMohammed//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1845)[Translation]I have to ask you to wrap it up.MarilynnRubayikaMarilynnRubayika//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1845)[English]Thank you.Ms. Sadrehashemi, for the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers, please.MarilynnRubayikaLobatSadrehashemi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1855)[English]Thank you.We'll begin with Mrs. Zahid.LobatSadrehashemiSalmaZahidScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1900)[English]Very quickly, please.MattDeCourceyFrederictonLobatSadrehashemi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1900)[English]Mr. Tilson, please.LobatSadrehashemiDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Mohammed.We'll move on now to the next seven-minute round of questions, with Ms. Kwan.JustinMohammedJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1915)[English]I need you to wind this up. JustinMohammedJustinMohammed//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1915)[English]The final round of questioning is by Mr. Tabbara. JustinMohammedMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—Hespeler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen): (1920)[English]Thank you very much.That brings the round of questioning to a close.I'd like to thank our witnesses.We'll have a brief break, then five minutes of committee business in camera before we call today's session to a close.Thank you.[Proceedings continue in camera]LobatSadrehashemi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1145)[English]Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.We heard from some previous witnesses at our last meeting as well that the proposed changes to this act are getting a lot of support and are pretty positive overall.Wendy, from your perspective, you talked about engagement with local connections to manage challenges that may arise and about closing the loop. What kinds of challenges do you see and how would you use a local connection to make this a more effective process?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekWendyZatylny//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1150)[English]Thank you for clarifying that.From B.C., Mr. Haakonson, you talked about the act having to trust the public and first nations. I think you said that you support this bill and the proposed changes and so on. This is just a very general question. Overall, does the bill meet your needs and expectations in the B.C. region?British ColumbiaBudget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsWendyZatylnyRoyHaakonson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1150)[English]For the cruise lines association, Mr. McGarry, I think you are pretty positive about this bill and the proposed changes. It supports greater standardization from a national perspective. There were some suggestions by some shipping industry people that it increases costs. Do you have any concerns around future potential costs to the cruise line industry?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresCruise shipsGovernment billsRoyHaakonsonMichaelMcGarry//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1305)[English]Madam Chair, I'd be fine with an extra half hour, if that's agreeable to the committee. I think we need the two meetings to discuss the transportation logistics strategy with regard to the east coast, so I'd suggest an extra 30 minutes.Committee businessJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (0950)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.A lot of the discussion is focused on the international nature of the complaints. Mr. Jade, I'm wondering if you could describe what the situation is for the regulation of immigration consultants in other countries, both in the developed world and the developing world, so we can get a sense of who is regulated and how. You just said the word has been used internationally for the last 50 years. In what countries are there consultants and how are they regulated?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsRegulationSetting of standardsMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillDoryJade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]Maybe you could give some examples. Maybe you can tell us about France, the U.K., China, the U.S. and India.Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsDoryJadeDoryJade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]What about the United States?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsDoryJadeDoryJade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]What about in India or China?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsDoryJadeDoryJade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]By establishing the college, would their be a possibility then for the college to have charter members in China or in India, so that there would be some property right in those country, so that their own internal sub-consultants or associate consultants would be able to protect against unlawful use within their own countries? This is like patent agents and associate agents.Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsDoryJadeDoryJade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (0950)[English]Maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves.One thing we noticed yesterday, and maybe a little bit today, is that many of the complaints that people have with the act as it stands are because they want us to be at phase three already. I would say that phase one might have been the establishment of the not-for-profit by the Conservative government. It got us so far. We ran into some roadblocks. We're now at phase two. We're going to empower the organization in some limited fashion.My first question then is to Mr. Gagnon.[Translation]Are we confident enough in the current organization to give it the authority to enforce the regulations? Are we at that stage now?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsDoryJadeMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1050)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.One of the issues we have heard about in our hearings is that there are certain aspects of the law that people think don't go far enough. I want to get the sense from you of whether this is the right iterative step to take now, whether you have confidence that the group is able to take these steps being proposed and that it's the right organization to do it. As well, if there are things on the wish list for the future, do you think it's good to be living with the organization as proposed in the act now, or should things be added now, in terms of extraterritorial enforcement, and some of the other things we have heard about, such as solicitor-client privilege protections in the act, and things like that?ConsultantsRegulationMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillAlliAmlani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1050)[English] Mr. LeBlanc.ConsultantsRegulationAlliAmlaniDavidLeBlanc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1050)[English]Thank you, Mr. LeBlanc.Mr. Roman, are we at the right point? You mentioned your organization itself being able to seek costs and also expropriate property or seize property in order to enforce awards. Are you satisfied that the act, as proposed, gets us where we need to go in order to clear backlogs and have some real justice against consultants who are unscrupulous or incompetent, and also that the regulator that's proposed to evolve into this organization has the necessary capacity and tools to step into this role?ConsultantsRegulationDavidLeBlancAndrewRoman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1050)[English]Mr. Roman, you had mentioned that 5,000 people is a small association for self-regulation. But I come from Newfoundland and Labrador where my number on the rolls is 1,444, and my father's was in the low 300s and he's retired. We have fewer than 1,500 currently active lawyers in Newfoundland and Labrador but the self-regulatory regime works fine.In terms of the $50 million to help establish—and the $10 million ongoing—and to fund these initiatives, do you think that is sufficient in the context? You made a comparison with the Law Society of Upper Canada.ConsultantsRegulationStatisticsAndrewRomanAndrewRoman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1055)[English]Mr. LeBlanc, in terms of the quantum that's proposed in the budget to allow us to achieve these measures, are you satisfied that it's going to put the organization in good stead, or the new regulator in good stead?ConsultantsRegulationAndrewRomanDavidLeBlanc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1055)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.DavidLeBlancMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Acting Chair (Mr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.)): (1155)[English] I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. The clock is now at noon. The meeting is adjourned.MichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1525)[English]If we can squeeze it in quickly within 15 minutes, we might get it in this week, but if we feel we need the full hour, then I don't think it will be able to happen this week. It will have to be next week, before we break. We have to provide the instructions before the constituency week.Committee businessMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.Thank you for coming, Minister. This is a great opportunity for us to have a second look now at some solutions to long-standing issues with immigration consultants that not just this government has faced, but previous ones as well.After the 2008 study that the Conservatives undertook, they amended the college, but there has always been some concern that there weren't strong enough enforcement mechanisms.Can you provide us some assurances that you believe that the current enforcement mechanisms are sufficient and maybe summarize the key ones for us?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1535)[English]That might be a good segue to my next question. It seems that our government has had the opportunity to put in other self-regulatory bodies in this mandate. Intellectual property professionals have a college now. What teachings has your department relied on in coming up with this model of self-governance yet strong governmental oversight in terms of the accountability on the board and also in terms of additional and stronger criminal penalties? Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsAhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1540)[English]My final question is a quick one. Although I wasn't a full-time member of the committee at the time, I did attend one of the meetings during the study and we heard a lot about fraud committed overseas, not by Canadians at all but by overseas actors who are taking advantage of their fellow citizens who are trying to emigrate to Canada from those countries. What steps is the government taking in this regard to address those types of fraud? Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsAhmedHussenHon.York South—WestonAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1540)[English]I have one quick question. The not-for-profit act was the mechanism the previous government established. Now we're doing a stand-alone act for consultants. Is there any particular rationale for that?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillAhmedHussenHon.York South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.Maybe I'll continue along those lines just a bit. If we're going to look at the cost analysis, obviously there's an option of having law societies do this, and obviously the cost to society is very large if lawyers are the only ones allowed to provide this service, but it doesn't cost the government any extra money. Presumably there's a comparison between this current proposal, I guess, which Ms. Rempel has pointed out is $51 million...there may be some ongoing costs year over year. How would that compare to the government itself providing a government-regulated service? Was any cost analysis done on that option? How does that compare to the option that was chosen? Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsCostsJennyKwanVancouver EastNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]The actual establishment costs weren't any different or...? I would have expected that offering it within government would have cost government more, because you don't have the professional services fees to buffer it.Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsNatashaKimNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]Do you have a dollar value estimate you can share?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsNatashaKimNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]Okay.In terms of codes of conduct, the existing sort of self-regulatory education body has codes of conduct and standards of care. It has business rules. It has ethics guidelines. Is there any reason to suggest that they wouldn't be a good starting point to roll into this new legislation? Have you identified any gaps that would need to be addressed?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsNatashaKimNatashaKim//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]In terms of foreign agents and local agents, I know that my colleague Mr. Ayoub was trying to ask a question on that. In the case of patent practice, if you want to engage foreign agents there are reciprocal rules around having an associate agent in another country deal with a locally registered agent. My guess is that immigration practice is not as well established.What types of things can be done to ensure that you know your client in an international context?Allegations of fraud and fraudClients and client baseConsultantsNatashaKimHarpreetKochhar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1710)[English] I have one last question.We're sort of dancing a little bit around the notion of whether or not you're engaged in the professional practice of immigration and citizenship consulting versus the practice of law versus just providing information. I'm wondering what type of guidance the department is going to be providing to MPs' offices and to non-governmental organizations engaged in settlement services—Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsHarpreetKochharMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1710)[English]—to inform them how not to violate this new law.Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillLoriMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1810)[English]Very quickly, Mr. Murray, I've looked at some of the things that have been suggested. The minister was here earlier. He said phase one was really when the Conservatives made the not-for-profit corporation. I would view this as phase two, where we're now providing more authority and powers to the organization that's been around for a while with feedback. Do you see these things like overseas reciprocal rights and reducing the number of minister-appointed members on the board as things that belong in this phase two, or are those things that can wait until phase three, after a further review in four or five years?Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsPolitical appointmentsRegulationMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillJohnMurray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1815)[English]Since the bells haven't started, I will also ask another question. When we are looking at what exists on your website now in terms of codes of ethics and codes of conduct in business, and we look to see those things to be adopted by the minister, what sort of process is your organization engaged in to further flesh out the codes of conduct so that the minister would be in a better position to adopt those as soon as the legislation is passed?Allegations of fraud and fraudCode of ethicsConsultantsJohnMurrayJohnMurray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1815)[English]Are there any particular items that you or Mr. Huynh would like to point out as needing upgrading or legislation that would require some additional work to be done to the existing code of conduct? I hear the bells. Allegations of fraud and fraudConsultantsJohnMurrayMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1525)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to our regularly scheduled FOPO committee meeting. Mr. Donnelly.Invasive speciesFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1525)[English]Before we get started with our witnesses, I want to recognize Mrs. Kelly Block the member from Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, who is here today as a Conservative member. Welcome to the committee, it's good to see you.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying aquatic invasive species. Today, we have a number of witnesses for an extended meeting. From 3:30 to 5:00 p.m., we have the Alberta Irrigation Districts Association and Margo Jarvis Redelback by video conference. From the Canadian Council on Invasive Species, we have Bob McLean, strategic partnerships. From the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, we have Matt DeMille, manager of fish and wildlife services, and Sophie Monfette, coordinator, invading species awareness program. From the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities, we have Raymond Orb, president, by video conference. From the Shuswap Watershed Council, we have Paul Demenok, chair, and Erin Vieira, program manager.Welcome to all our witnesses. We'll start off with our presentations, which will be seven minutes or less. We'll start off with the video conference people and Margo Jarvis Redelback. Invasive speciesFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamMargoJarvis Redelback//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you for that. We'll now go to the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities. Mr. Orb, you have seven minutes or less, please. MargoJarvis RedelbackRaymondOrb//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you for that.We'll now go to the Shuswap Watershed Council. I don't know whether you're both speaking or just one of you, but you have seven minutes or less, please, when you're ready.RaymondOrbPaulDemenok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you for that. We'll now go to the Canadian Council on Invasive Species with Mr. McLean for seven minutes or less please.PaulDemenokBobMcLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.Now we'll go to the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters.Matt, you're going to speak for seven minutes or less, please.BobMcLeanMattDeMille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you for that.We'll now get into our rounds of questioning. I will remind members that if it's somebody on video conference to identify who you want the question to go to or the answer to come from. To the people by video conference, if a question is asked and you want to add something to it, put up your hand or wave, and hopefully the person asking the question will see it and give you time to respond as well.First is Mr. Rogers, for seven minutes or less, please.MattDeMilleChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome to all of our witnesses on video and here in the room today. That was quite a presentation from a lot of people. There are a number of questions I can ask each of you, but feel free to jump in if there's a question you want to comment on.I'm going to start with Ms. Redelback. You talked about a number of things, but in particular, you talked about some of the partnerships and some of the things that are going on in terms of trying to deal with the major concerns you have to prevent the spread of the invasive mussels and the obstructions and problems it might cause for the irrigation group you represent.Specifically, you talked about maybe having more support from the federal side, from the Government of Canada. Can you tell me specifically what needs to be addressed from the federal side to deal with the issue of invasive mussels in your region?Invasive speciesMusselsKenMcDonaldAvalonMargoJarvis Redelback//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1605)[English]Thank you very much.Mr. Orb, you talked as well about the collaboration and co-operation of different levels of government, but the federal government could be doing more. From your perspective, what specifically would you like the federal government to do?Invasive speciesMargoJarvis RedelbackRaymondOrb//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1610)[English]Thank you.Mr. Demenok, you talked about disproportionate distribution of funds across the country and you said there should be more prioritization in terms of funding and where it should be spent. You also referenced DFO lacking a strategic approach. Do you have anything specific that you want to talk about in terms of what the federal government should be doing?Invasive speciesRaymondOrbPaulDemenok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1610)[English]Thank you.Mr. DeMille, you talked as well of the uneven distribution of funds and resources to deal with this issue. Does your organization make submissions to DFO for funding or on funding issues, and do they pay attention to your requests?Invasive speciesPublic consultationPaulDemenokMattDeMille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1610)[English]Thank you.MattDeMilleKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Mr. Rogers, your time is up for that round of questioning.We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for seven minutes or less, please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Okay, your time is well up. Now we go to Mr. Donnelly for seven minutes or less, please.RaymondOrbFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.Now we'll go to Mr. Fraser for seven minutes or less.BobMcLeanColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Sorry, Mr. Fraser. You're way over time.We'll go now to Mr. Calkins for five minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins.Now we will go to Mr. Morrissey, for five minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Your time is up, sir. I'm sorry about that.Now we go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.RobertMorrisseyEgmontMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Yes, and that concludes this portion of our committee meeting for this afternoon.I want to say a big thank you to our guests, who have appeared both by video conference and in person.I'll suspend now for a couple of minutes just to change out witnesses and get ready for the next portion of the meeting.Thank you, everyone.(1650)(1700)MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English] We'll get started again on the next portion of our session for today. We have witnesses in person, we have witnesses by video conference and a witness by teleconference.We have here in person, from the Canadian Electricity Association, Mr. David Stanley, senior environmental specialist, Ontario Power Generation, as well as Michael Powell, director of government relations. Welcome. From the Miramichi Salmon Association Incorporated, we have Mr. Mark Hambrook, president. It's good to see you again, sir.By video conference, from New Brunswick Invasive Species Council, we have Paula Noel, volunteer member. From the Rural Municipalities of Alberta, we have Al Kemmere, president. By teleconference, from the Central Kootenay Invasive Species Society, we have Erin Bates, executive director.We'll start off with Ms. Bates.In case we get a problem with the connection, we'll at least try to get to hear your testimony. When you're ready, you have seven minutes or less, please.KenMcDonaldAvalonErinBates//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you, Ms. Bates, for that.We'll now go to Paula Noel from New Brunswick Invasive Species Council. When you are ready, you have seven minutes or less, please.ErinBatesPaulaNoel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you, Ms. Noel.We'll go now to the Rural Municipalities of Alberta with Mr. Kemmere for seven minutes or less, please.PaulaNoelAlKemmere//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kemmere.We'll go now to the Canadian Electricity Association. I don't know if one person is speaking or if you're sharing your time, but go ahead, Michael, when you're ready. You have seven minutes or less.AlKemmereMichaelPowell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English] Thank you.Now for the last presentation we have Mr. Hambrook, for seven minutes or less, please.MichaelPowellMarkHambrook//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you, sir.We'll go to the questioning now. First off is Mr. Finnigan for seven minutes or less, please.MarkHambrookPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]Thank you, Mr. Finnigan. You've gone over time.Now we'll go to Mr. Arnold for seven minutes or less, please.ErinBatesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1745)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold.Now we'll go to Mr. Donnelly, for seven minutes or less, please. MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.Now to Mr. Fraser for seven minutes or less.PaulaNoelColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1800)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fraser.Now we go back to the Conservative side, to Mr. Calkins for five minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1810)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins. That's about six minutes.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1810)[English]We will now go to Mr. Hardie for five minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1810)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie.Now we will go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please. I understand you may share your time.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1815)[English]Bells are ringing. We'll continue on and I'll cut it off when I think we're getting close.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1820)[English]Thank you.You've used up your full five minutes, including the minute-long interruption I gave you. I'll say thank you to our witnesses, both by teleconference and video, and those here in person. Unfortunately, we have to rush away—MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1820)[English]The clerk has made a note, and we'll see what we can do in that regard.Thank you, everyone. The meeting is adjourned.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1205)[English]Thank you to all our guests for their presentations today.This act, of course, is crucially important to the riding that I represent in Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly Placentia Bay, as Mr. Griffiths just referenced. I have had numerous conversations with the pilotage authority of Atlantic Canada and others, and I appreciate the information that has been provided to all of us over the last number of months and years.You made reference to 1,000 to 1,100 tankers in one given year. Obviously, that is a huge concern for the fishing industry and other people in our province. I applaud you for your impeccable safety record. I'm hearing from you that the bill as it's currently proposed as a package is fine. Given our safety record, as it currently stands, will there be the same kind of expectation that we will be able to maintain that safety record going forward?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsMaritime safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekSeanGriffiths//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1210)[English]I can recall when offshore oil and gas became a major industry in Newfound and Labrador. I refer to that because it's the one I'm most familiar with, Bull Arm and Arnold's Cove within that area of Placentia Bay, which coexists with the fishing industry and an aquaculture industry project and others. It's a very busy location.When I look at this bill and I see your group endorsing where it's going, and keeping in mind that you made reference to the safety and needs of the industry, do you think there's a good balance in all of that?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresDistribution and service industriesGovernment billsMaritime safetySeanGriffithsSeanGriffiths//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1210)[English]For any of the witnesses here today, I know in some earlier conversations that some concerns were expressed about the long consultation process and some of the points that were being raised. Mr. Lewis-Manning, do you think this bill addresses most of these issues?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsPublic consultationSeanGriffithsRobertLewis-Manning//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1210)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Broad.RobertLewis-ManningMichaelBroad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1210)[English]Do you anticipate that there might be additional costs for the shipping industry as a result of the changes proposed here?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsMaritime transportationMichaelBroadMichaelBroad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1210)[English]Okay. Thank you.Mr. Pelletier, I guess you made reference to and saw the effect of safety as paramount in this whole process. I'm going to ask you a very simple question. Do you think this bill meets your needs and expectations?Budget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsPilotageMichaelBroadSimonPelletier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1135)[English]I'm going to be sharing my time with Mr. Graham. First of all, welcome back, as always. I want to talk about some of the good things you've done over the past little while: the new policy requirements for political parties, the register of future electors and of course the administrative reintegration of the Commissioner of Canada Elections, which I think was something very important for them to do their jobs. In the meantime, one new element of Bill C-76 that many people had questions about was the ramifications, both financial and administrative, for what we now know as the pre-writ period. Can you comment on that, please?C-76, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and other Acts and to make certain consequential amendmentsElectoral systemMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Chief Electoral OfficerLarryBagnellHon.YukonStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English] Okay.Let me return to the future electors list, which is also a new process. Can you describe how it's going? I know, as of April 1, it's now in force. However, what do you have left to do to make sure this is ready for the coming fall election?Main estimates 2019-2020Office of the Chief Electoral OfficerRegister of Future ElectorsStéphanePerraultStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]Yes, understood. I think Mr. Graham is going to touch on that issue in just a moment—not to presuppose what he is going to ask, but I just did.I want to get back to another issue. That is, during the last iteration of what was called the Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada found itself constrained in what it could communicate with the public. It's very important that Elections Canada be more outgoing. Certainly it would be great for Elections Canada to be communicating more broadly with the people about the importance of their constitutional right. Can you tell us some of the things you are doing to reach out to people? I understand about the list itself and cleaning up the list, but what are some of the things you are doing to communicate to people about the vote itself that is coming up in the fall?Main estimates 2019-2020Office of the Chief Electoral OfficerStéphanePerraultStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1140)[English]Thank you.My remaining time can go to Mr. Graham.StéphanePerraultLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1200)[English] I found it very ironic. I hope I got this correct, but Mr. Poilievre mentioned the independence. Listen, I'm all for that. As a former critic.... About the commissioner returning to Elections Canada, it was never suggested by them. It was a decision that we wanted to make as a party, and on becoming government, we wanted to return to that for the independence. I agree with him, but I found it ironic that his very last comment there was about telling this man to tell the commissioner about SNC-Lavalin. You should have that conversation with him. They're either independent or they're not, which is what Mr. Poilievre suggested. That's unfortunate. As Mr. Christopherson likes to say, I mean, come along.Anyway, thank you very much.Commissioner of Canada ElectionsMain estimates 2019-2020Office of the Chief Electoral OfficerChrisBittleSt. CatharinesLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]Thank you.Thank you very much, Your Excellency.That's right, you have a “thing”; every time someone says “Your Excellency”, as you said last time, you come prepared. I believe you have a charity.LarryBagnellHon.YukonDavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]Actually, it's Mr. Bittle who brought it up with me this morning. It's his memory that's the good one. Just so you know, we're all in for your charity.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]That's good. Okay, I'll keep that in mind.Thank you for coming here, and thank you for all the work you've done thus far. I say that because it's always difficult to start from scratch, isn't it? That's essentially what you're doing here. But it's not like a leaders debate is a new concept, obviously. It goes back to the advent of television and radio way back when. I forget when the first one was; it was in the seventies, I believe. So this is somewhat from scratch, but there are two ways of looking at this—how we have done this in the past and how other countries, such as the United States, have done this. Can we talk about best practices? What would you say are some of the best practices you've discovered so far in your research?Leaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English] Yes, okay.I think in the case of Great Britain a public broadcaster was involved or not involved. Of course we have the same sort of dynamic different from what the Americans have, obviously. Their public broadcaster is not as prominent as ours.You say you have a production team.Is that correct?BroadcastingLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]Are you looking at creating this type of production team for our...?BroadcastingLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]Yes, dissemination is not what it used to be, as someone once said. Dissemination can take all sorts of forms. I guess what you're doing is open access for any type of platform, whether it's a Facebook element or the CBC or what have you. Information disseminationLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]When it comes to the journalistic standards—let's look at that one for a moment—how do you decide?Obviously in the case of the format, who asks the questions? Who determines what is pertinent to a particular election? What are the main issues?How do you get into that issue of deciding that journalistic principles are upheld?Leaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020Media and the pressDavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]If you felt they weren't handling it with journalistic principles in mind.Leaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020Media and the pressDavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]Control over the product itself, once the debate is held, who gets a copy of it and that sort of that thing?Who gets to stream it?Information disseminationLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]I realize that.Just for the record, it's not you who would be enforcing the copyright or going after any copyright infringement. It would be the consortium itself.Copyright and copyright lawLeaders' Debates CommissionMain estimates 2019-2020DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]It was good to talk to you again, sir.LarryBagnellHon.YukonDavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]Not a problem—I'm on it.Thank you, sir.DavidJohnstonThe Right Hon.LarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Good afternoon, everyone.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we will continue our study of the migration of lobster and snow crab in Atlantic Canada and the impact of changes to the lobster carapace size.We have two witnesses here in person today. From the Fisheries Council of Canada, we have Mr. Paul Lansbergen, president. Joining us today by video conference is Mr. Richard Wahle, research professor, School of Marine Sciences at the University of Maine.We will start off with seven-minute presentations from witnesses.Mr. Wahle, if you're ready, you can go first for seven minutes or less.Atlantic CanadaCrabsLobstersRichardWahle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Dr. Wahle.We'll now go to Mr. Lansbergen for seven minutes or less, please.RichardWahlePaulLansbergen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Lansbergen. We will start off on the government side with Mr. Fraser, for seven minutes or less, please.PaulLansbergenColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Now we'll go to the Conservative side.Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Now we'll go to the NDP.Mr. Donnelly, welcome back again. It's good to see you. You have seven minutes or less, sir.PaulLansbergenFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly. Your time is up.We will now go back to the government side with Mr. Rogers, for seven minutes or less, please.PaulLansbergenChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to our guests.Mr. Chair, before I get into the questioning, I would like to introduce a motion that is very relevant to this topic of snow crab and lobster, if that's appropriate.The motion is very simple. It says:That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study on the use of the Precautionary Approach and limit of reference points to determine future management of fish stocks and the economic and environmental impact of this approach.I have copies available. If it's appropriate, I'd like to have the motion distributed to the committee.Committee businessFisheries policyMotionsPrecautionary principleKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Mr. Calkins.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1605)[English]This is totally relevant to the study.Committee businessBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Mr. Rogers.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1605)[English]I think it is very relevant to the topic we are discussing today. I want to focus on the management practices that DFO is planning to implement in our jurisdiction, when it comes to crab stocks, fish stocks and any other kinds of stocks.Committee businessKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Mr. Doherty.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Do you have something else to add, Mr. Rogers?ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1605)[English]Mr. Chair, I think this motion is very relevant to what we are discussing here, particularly as to the management practices related to crab stocks, lobster and other species. I want to focus on those particular management practices. That's why I thought it would be fair to put them into a motion that we could discuss.Committee businessKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Mr. Doherty. Then we will try to end there, if we can.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Obviously, a motion to adjourn is not debatable.All those in favour of adjourning?I am calling the vote. Are you moving to adjourn debate on the motion, or to adjourn the committee?Committee businessToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]I thought you were moving to adjourn the committee meeting.Committee businessToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]I believe the motion is in order, but I would like to delay the vote on the motion until after we question our witnesses and move into committee business, if the committee is satisfied with that. Committee businessBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Then I'll move that it is in order. We've debated it to some degree, so I guess we'll call the question on the motion made by Mr. Rogers.Committee businessBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Yes, but it was straightening out which way it was—FinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]So the motion actually is to adjourn debate.Committee businessFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Those in favour of adjourning the debate? (Motion agreed to)The Chair: Now we're back to questioning our witnesses. Mr. Rogers, go ahead for the time remaining, please.Committee businessDecisions in committeeMotion to adjourn the DebateMotionsFinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1610)[English]I want to focus on the management practices I just referenced.Mr. Lansbergen, how satisfied are you that DFO's stock assessment process is following this precautionary approach, with limited reference points and so on as part of the principles they're using? They talk about how the academics and industry and other groups get together and then they go out to communities and spread the message about this approach. Harvesters tell me they're not being consulted and they're not being listened to. How confident are you that they are following an approach that is acceptable to the harvesting sector in this industry?Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principleKenMcDonaldAvalonPaulLansbergen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1610)[English]I guess the point I'm getting at is whether people are really listening to these harvesters. The consultation pieces are being done with different sectors and so on. You have harvesters who have major differences of opinion compared to some of the science. A perfect example from the area where I live is that harvesters this year are experiencing extremely good catches, much faster than they've had in the last three years, but the science was proposing a 30% cut to the stocks. Fishermen are at a loss to explain why that is the case. Many of them have already fished and have their quotas caught by this time, which is out of the ordinary.Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principlePaulLansbergenPaulLansbergen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1615)[English]I appreciate that. I just wanted to know if you might have a perspective on that, because there seems to be a major discrepancy between what the people who have been fishing for decades are saying about the state of stocks and what science is saying, and I didn't know if you might have an opinion.Mr. Wahle, would you be prepared to comment on that?Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principlePaulLansbergenRichardWahle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Wahle.What time remains, Mr. Chair?RichardWahleKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Very little.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1615)[English]Okay.I just wanted to put that point out there, because I am not expressing my frustration as much as the frustration of the harvesting community, in particular in Newfoundland and Labrador, versus what the scientists are saying, and get your and Mr. Lansbergen's perspective on how you see things.I appreciate your comments.Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principleKenMcDonaldAvalonPaulLansbergen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1615)[English]Yes, I appreciate and understand that, but the reality is that the catches this year have been really good. It totally contradicts what is being proposed in the needs for proposed cuts. That's what the harvesters are telling me.Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principlePaulLansbergenKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] Thank you. That concludes the first part of our committee meeting for this afternoon.Thank you to our two witnesses, Dr. Wahle for appearing by video conference and Mr. Lansbergen for appearing in person. He is no stranger to the committee.We will suspend for a couple of minutes now so we can discuss committee business.[Proceedings continue in camera]ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1710)[English]Thank you very much, Chair.We're getting towards the end. I might be one of the last questioners in our study on settlement services.I'd like to thank all the witnesses for the excellent testimony.We've heard from providers right across the country: rural communities, urban centres, school boards, church groups and government-funded agencies. It's been very interesting. For anyone looking to start a settlement services agency in their community, it would provide a set of best practices and many different options on how to do it. At the same time, it's unclear the direction in which our recommendations should go, and what the federal government's role is in ensuring that communities have a path towards competing for the opportunities that immigrants provide. I'll ask each of you to provide your thoughts on whether or not our communities should recommend ideas around best practices, whether there should be direct funding provided by the federal government, whether the federal government should provide guidelines for communities or provinces and what they should consider to be spending opportunities for them. Let's start with you, Professor Shields.Settlement of immigrantsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestJohnShields//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Ms. Buuck.JohnShieldsChristineBuuck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]If I were to summarize that, let's see if I understand it correctly. There's been a trend towards federalization of settlement services, but really, while the federal government needs to remain—Settlement of immigrantsChristineBuuckRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]If I could finish my round, that would be really appreciated.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Thank you.To summarize, I'd say there's been a trend towards the federalization of settlement services. While the federal government should remain a partner, we need to make sure the provinces, the towns and cities, and the NGOs remain part of this so they can remain flexible and meet community needs, rather than what might be a nationally dictated need. It might not be a relevant-needs community.I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to make sure I understand you.Settlement of immigrantsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestChristineBuuck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Mr. Shields.Settlement of immigrantsChristineBuuckJohnShields//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Some of the programs we've talked about and many of the supports we've talked about for immigrant workers and refugees coming into the country seem also to me to be quite relevant for existing Canadian workers who might come from other underprivileged...or backgrounds which might represent some type of disadvantage for them. I wonder, at some point, whether or not the immigration stream is the best way to deliver things like mental health supports in schools, for instance, or career mentoring for people who come from disadvantaged or immigrant backgrounds.Is there a way for us to work across departments, maybe with labour force development departments or with schools, to ensure that it's not just people from immigrant backgrounds who are getting access to these programs? Actually, anyone who is disadvantaged in society and who needs these supports should have mentoring, mental health counselling and whatnot.Mr. Shields.Settlement of immigrantsSocial supportVulnerable personsJohnShieldsJohnShields//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Ms. Buuck, I'm assuming you would add that language services present a specific challenge for the immigrant population.Settlement of immigrantsJohnShieldsChristineBuuck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]I would like to thank you for your incredible contribution to our study. If you have any further thoughts, please do submit them to us in writing.Settlement of immigrantsChristineBuuckRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1915)[English]Thank you, Madam. We really appreciate this. I'm going to follow up on the Chair's questioning, because it fascinates me that consideration-in-detail stage. We have a committee system. We have 24 standing committees here. Once bills have passed second reading stage, they go into the committee stage for detailed study. What you're telling us is that consideration in detail now takes place in that chamber, and it is similar to the process of committee of the whole.Is that correct?AustraliaBillsParallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1915)[English]That leads to my question.So there is no voting at second reading; it automatically goes there. Is that correct, or do they vote to send it there? AustraliaBillsParallel debating ChamberClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1915)[English]Yes, it is, and I find it fascinating.I want to go back to the comment you made about the guillotining of certain bills. Here we call it “time allocation”. The current government receives criticism about time allocation; the former government probably received even more. However, it is quite common, and we do it for that reason. It seems that we don't have the mechanism by which to quell that. For instance, I know that in Great Britain in the mid-1990s, in the Westminster system, they introduced bill programming. Your answer to that, though, is the parallel chamber. You went from over 100 guillotining motions down to about 14.AustraliaBillsParallel debating ChamberTime allocationClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1915)[English]I see. You said that you have certain committees that deal with this. You can refer to an actual standing committee.AustraliaBillsParallel debating ChamberStanding committeesClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1915)[English]Thank you for that. There are two themes we're getting from our debate here about a parallel chamber. Yours obviously is the originator and the U.K. followed shortly thereafter. There are two schools of thought, for me, anyway. One would be allowing other material to be addressed through the parallel chamber, such as with petitions, with other forms of debate, something that's not being talked about in the primary chamber. What fascinates me more is the fact that we can ease the pressure on the main chamber so that more people can have a say in the debate. Was that the genesis of your Federation Chamber?AustraliaParallel debating ChamberClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1920)[English]Is that the case?AustraliaParallel debating ChamberClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1920)[English]Interesting. That's what I was looking for, because I think in our case that is of a great deal of interest, or at least it is to me personally. With regard to the other aspects of the Federation Chamber, is it say, open to petitions? Can you debate certain petitions that come to the House?AustraliaParallel debating ChamberPetitionsClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1920)[English] Okay.You also brought up this prospect. If I want to introduce a topic into the legislature, the most common way for me as a Canadian member of Parliament is to introduce it through a motion or a private member's bill. Then I have to wait my turn to talk about it within the main chamber. If I want to bring up a specific topic to discuss in the Federation Chamber, whether it's a motion or a bill, how would I do that?AustraliaParallel debating ChamberProcedureClaressaSurteesClaressaSurtees//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1920)[English]Thank you very much.ClaressaSurteesLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1610)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thanks for coming, Minister.In Mr. Cannings' remarks, he got almost to the point of asking you a question on how the Government of Canada is helping rural and remote communities in this budget. I am looking at table A.2, Natural Resources Canada's 2019-20 transfer payments. It says that we're increasing those amounts from last year to this year from $14.2 million to $21.4 million. Can you or your officials provide us with some colour as to how this money is going to help rural and remote communities access clear energy programs, and what type of administrative support might be available for smaller communities that don't have the in-house capacity to necessarily think through all the options themselves? Energy conservationMain estimates 2019-2020Rural communitiesJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]For the record, I think that probably responds to Mr. Cannings' earlier statement. In terms of the extension of time in order to fully complete the consultation process with indigenous groups for the Trans Mountain expansion, you indicated that you've engaged former justice Iacobucci on this. My own province was obviously quite anxious about our own indigenous consultations with respect to offshore exploratory drilling, which have come to what we understand to be a successful conclusion.Maybe you can provide us with some context on why it's important to provide this extension and what confidence you can give us, based on the experience of the government thus far, that our new processes in this regard are working, are compliant and will survive a court challenge.Aboriginal peoplesMain estimates 2019-2020Public consultationTrans Mountain pipelineCheriCrosbyAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1615)[English]Is there anything in particular you'd like to elaborate on in terms of the three-week extension that might be able to give us some comfort that this is the right thing to do?Aboriginal peoplesMain estimates 2019-2020Public consultationTrans Mountain pipelineAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1615)[English]In terms of making Canada a global leader in mining, at a conference in Toronto just a couple of months ago I heard from mining leaders that they want to make sure that when they engage in scientific discussions with the government, they and the government are learning from past practice, moving forward and not reinventing the wheel.Can you provide us some clarity on how your department is ensuring we're learning from past practice and continually improving our environmental regulatory process?Best practicesMain estimates 2019-2020Mining industryAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsAmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill Woods//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1615)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.AmarjeetSohiHon.Edmonton Mill WoodsJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.On the notion of spending $130 million on charging stations over five years, I was at a local hockey rink on the weekend in Paradise, in part of my riding of St. John's East in Newfoundland. It's a neighbouring community. They had a couple of charging stations out front that are fairly new, but they're already deteriorating from weather and salt in the parking lots.When I was knocking on doors on the weekend, I met a constituent who was concerned. He wanted to buy an electric vehicle, but they live in a multi-unit dwelling and his parking spot is in a parking lot next to the building. He's concerned that even if he spends the money to have his own charging station installed next to his spot, the plow would knock it or it would get damaged.What type of money within this envelope is there for operation, maintenance and repair of these assets? Who owns the assets? Is there going to be any sort of comparative analysis done across multiple vendors of these? Are you going to sole-source to a single vendor, or are you going to take this opportunity to do a consumer advocacy piece where you could test and measure hundreds of different suppliers against each other to see whose units last longer and whose are more resilient? What type of work is this and how does this relate to other departments in terms of national building code development around the residential installation of these units?Charging stationsMain estimates 2019-2020JamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreChristyneTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1705)[English]Who maintains these systems now that they're deployed? How much of this money is directed to O and M? Are consumers going to be given this information? You've done all this research. It would be great if it were made available to the purchasing public.Charging stationsMain estimates 2019-2020JayKhoslaJayKhosla//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English]Ms. Stubbs raised an issue about scheduling the June 20 meeting to receive....We might be able to deal with that right now.JamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1140)[English]How long do I have?LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1140)[English]Can we just wait until we come back? I don't want two minutes.LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1210)[Translation]Thank you very much.(1215)[English]I'm going to start with what transpired a while ago in an appearance by Mr. Robert. I'm going to get to that in a minute.Mr. Speaker, I would love for you to weigh in on this as well, as you weren't present at the time, but I'm sure you're aware of this exercise regarding cleaning up the language in the Standing Orders, which, as I said—and I was quoted by the whip of the Conservatives—I thought it was a fabulous exercise. I think it's fantastic. I thought it was great for the simple reason that it clears up a lot of the language. It makes it more accessible for people who are not familiar, who are not jurilinguists. It makes it far easier to read and understand. It's an exercise, not in changing the Standing Orders, but certainly in making them far more accessible.It appears, from what I understand, that the exercise has stopped.Is that correct, Mr. Robert?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsLarryBagnellHon.YukonCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]May I ask what the contention was with this?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]This is not something you can answer, but I find that to be disingenuous at best for a reason as to why this should be done.Mr. Speaker, do you care to comment?CharlesRobertGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]It's what we do.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English] I'm going back to Mr. Robert again. It seems to me, though, you had no intention whatsoever of changing any of the Standing Orders or the fundamental characteristics of anything pertaining to the House business. Is that correct?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]Has this exercise been done throughout other Westminster parliaments?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]Can you estimate how much time you've put into this thus far?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]For me, personally—and you don't have to weigh in on this; this is my own thought—I think this is coming. I think we should endeavour to do a project of this nature, and not just for that, maybe, but for other reasons as well, especially for this type of job that we do. Not everybody who comes into the position of member of Parliament is from a legal background, me included. I was a TV weatherman, for God's sake. I don't know what that says, but—An hon. member: A good one. CharlesRobertDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]It appears we've devolved. I want to congratulate you for doing that. I'm very sad that it is, and I hope that this committee will endeavour in the future to take it upon themselves to give the direction that we do this once again.House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]What do these annotated Standing Orders look like?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]You're undertaking that exercise right now. Is that correct?House of CommonsMain estimates 2019-2020Standing Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]The other part—the cousin of that—you've ceased doing and you've told others to stop doing that.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]That's unfortunate.Thank you very much.CharlesRobertLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Indigenous Services): (0835)[English]Madam Chair, I take it as probably a very good indicator of how closely we've been working that I know them all only by their first names.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. PaulMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0835)[English]Ah, Gros-Louis. It's a revelation to me.IsaGros-LouisIsaGros-Louis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0835)[English] Thank you, Madame Chair and colleagues, for the invitation to appear before the committee today to speak to these important and necessary changes to child and family services for first nations, Inuit and Métis people.Allow me to start by acknowledging that we are gathered on the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin people.Today my team and I are joined together and will be glad to answer questions shortly.Protecting and promoting the well-being of indigenous children and families should be the foremost priority of the federal government and governments across Canada. However, that has not always been the case.Every day in Canada, indigenous children are separated from their families, communities, languages and cultures. Too many indigenous children end up in care away from their communities. These already vulnerable children are forcibly taken from their homes without their parents' consent and all too often are deprived of their culture and identity, as well as the community supports that ensure their long-term well-being.I think we can all agree that the current system does not work for indigenous children and families and that we cannot perpetuate the status quo in a child and family services system that has been rightly called a humanitarian crisis. Something is seriously wrong when indigenous children represent only 7.7% of all children under age 15 and yet make up 52% of children in care in this country.Paternalistic policies keep these children isolated from the people they love. Too many young lives have been severely damaged and, in some cases, tragically lost.This is precisely why Bill C-92 takes an entirely different approach. We have before us a bill that represents a set of national priorities that the government and indigenous groups worked on together, principles that put the child first; that enshrine the importance of culture, community, family and the well-being of that child; and that uphold the dignity of the family and of the child in any dealings with the child and family services system.Our vision is of a system where indigenous peoples are in charge of their own child and family services, something we recognize should have been the case a long time ago.Bill C-92 will finally put into law what indigenous peoples across the country have been asking of governments for decades: that their inherent jurisdiction be recognized and affirmed.Should Bill C-92 be adopted, indigenous communities could exercise partial or full jurisdiction over child and family services. Because a one-size-fits-all approach does not work, it would be up to indigenous peoples to tailor the system to match the needs of their communities, and we are committed to working with individual communities to make sure those services are tailored to meet their needs.The bill flows from an intensive period of engagement with first nations, Inuit and Métis leaders, communities and individuals, as well as the provinces and territories.Since the emergency meeting convened by my predecessor in January 2018, there have been extensive meetings and consultations across the country in an effort to get this right. Even in the weeks preceding the introduction of this bill, we were incorporating the suggestions of indigenous groups and provincial and territorial partners.For me, the truest sense of our efforts came from a statement by Senator Murray Sinclair that our approach “should serve as a model for implementing the Truth and Reconciliation Call-to-Actions in a meaningful and direct way.”That doesn't mean the conversation starts there or stops there. There are no closed doors to our indigenous partners or the provinces and the territories. This bill and the children it aims to protect are only served if we collaborate and ensure their best interests.(0840) Also, I am not suggesting that we've achieved perfection with this legislation. I am the first to admit there is still room for improvement, and I welcome this committee's input.Bill C-92 is built on what indigenous peoples and child development experts have told us is required to protect children—to get them off to a good start in life. Under this act, indigenous child and family services will put the child first, consistent with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada's calls to action and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.This legislation sets out principles to ensure indigenous children and their families will be treated with dignity, and that their rights will be preserved. For instance, children could not be taken into care based on socio-economic conditions alone, as is often the case now. Instead of responding solely to crises, Bill C-92 prioritizes prevention. lt promotes things like prenatal care and support for parents. Both front-line workers and academics have told us that preventative care is the best predictor of child success and positive development. If circumstances dictate that interventions are needed, an indigenous child would only be apprehended when it is in the child's best interests, and priority would be given to placement with the child's own family or community, and with or near the child's siblings.Under Bill C-92, when an indigenous group or community wishes to exercise their jurisdiction over child and family services and have their law prevail over federal, provincial and territorial laws, the Minister of lndigenous Services Canada and the government of each province and territory in which they are located will enter into three-way discussions around a coordination agreement. If an agreement is reached within 12 months following the request, the laws of the indigenous group or community would have force of law as federal law, and prevail over federal, provincial and territorial child and family services law. If no agreement is reached within 12 months, but reasonable efforts are made to do so, the indigenous law will also have force of law as federal law. ln practical terms this means that, should a government not act in good faith during the negotiation of a coordination agreement after 12 months of negotiations, indigenous child and family services law would have precedence over provincial law.To promote a smooth transition and implementation of Bill C-92, Canada will explore the creation of distinctions-based transition governance structures. The co-developed governance structures would identify tools and processes to increase the capacity of communities as they assume responsibility over child and family services. We also know that funding needs to be part of the equation for this act to have maximum impact. We cannot presume that the funding models that have supported the current, broken system will be what indigenous groups want while exercising their jurisdiction. Those models and levels should be discussed and designed through the Bill C-92 coordination agreement process.We pledge to work with partners to identify long-term needs and funding gaps. We are committed to strengthening the bill as it makes its way through Parliament. lt is essential that we work collaboratively and effectively to get this done. The necessity for this legislation goes well beyond partisan considerations—something I think we all understand and agree on. What matters is that at long last we are taking substantive action to overhaul the system, moving away from paternalistic policy failures of the past.Bill C-92 is a concrete demonstration of our collective determination to forge a renewed relationship between Canada and indigenous peoples, one built on respect and the recognition and affirmation of rights. This proposed legislation is designed for a better future for indigenous children, for their families, and for the communities the bill promises to support and protect.(0845) Ultimately, that is a better future for all of us, and for that, I hope I can count on your support.Thank you, Madam Chair.Aboriginal peoplesAboriginal policyC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. PaulMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0845)[English] We had some 65 different meetings and heard from some 2,000 people from right across the country about this, giving us an understanding of what exactly it will mean. More often than not, it's met with disbelief. I spent quite a bit of time this week in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. Their attitude toward the proposed legislation, Bill C-92, is mixed. It is fair to say—and I look at my colleague, Robert—that in Manitoba there seems to be a belief that we will not actually do this. Manitoba doesn't believe we will actually come forward with this legislation.In British Columbia it's certainly been more forceful. It has helped us along. This is the legislation it has been waiting for. Many of the provinces have built up capacity on the ground where they were already looking at child and family services legislation within their communities, so they are anxious to have a national blanket that would protect them within federal law and that allow others to reach the same capacity as they have. In other areas, where the provinces are more heavy-handed when it comes to youth and social services, such as Manitoba and Saskatchewan, there is greater trepidation about whether or not this is real and meaningful. We've spent most of our time assuring them that that is the case. Manitoba, for instance, is introducing something called the bringing our children home act. We are encouraging legislation from the ground when it comes to child and family services. What we're pointing out to the provinces is that what we are proposing with Bill C-92 would work concurrently with what they want to develop on the ground. It is unique to their circumstances and fits nicely with what we want to do nationally. Sometimes in dealing with a number of Cree women who are confronted with the idea of child and family services and taking them back to their communities, they have rightfully said, when they walked away, that they were walking away with more questions than they had had before. I saw that as a good sign. Those groups are about to develop their own child and family services based on the wants and needs and capabilities of their communities, and we are providing a shelter within the federal framework. That is exciting, because it will be more effective. We have effectively doubled the amount of money for child and family services over the past two and a half years, somewhere up to $1.2 billion. It's a substantial amount of money, and it remains there. The difficulty is that 80% of the funding that we carry on through the provinces and through our agencies goes toward the “protective services”. That is an ironic term that basically refers to the security and everything that surrounds the abduction of a child. So 80% of the budget is about the abduction of the child and the associated costs, which are many.There is a hope too that there will be more money freed up there, because the communities themselves.... We are hell-bent on making sure that we drastically reduce the number of children who are taken from their families and that, over time, we put an increased light on preventive care and prenatal care, so that we never again reach that position. Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsPublic consultationYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-Fortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0855)[English]It's not a word that I use easily, as my mother has been in similar situations as a nurse in the north where she had to forceably remove children from families.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenChild abductionFamilies and childrenGovernment billsCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0855)[English]No, I'm saying—CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0855)[English]I'm aware. I use the word “abduction” quite purposely because from the point of view of the family, that is what they see. With all due respect to my mother and her nursing colleagues, my motivation at the moment is the family, and what the family sees is an abduction.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenChild abductionFamilies and childrenGovernment billsCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooCathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—Cariboo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]First and foremost, since I took this position, I'm determined to make sure that we help the individuals who have been affected, and not the agencies that sometimes represent them. I'm more interested in going to the individuals and not the agencies. This hasn't been done in a bit but I'm determined to do it.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCanadian Human Rights TribunalCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsRachelBlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverRachelBlaneyNorth Island—Powell River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]No, it's in the middle of doing it.I'm going to throw it over to Joanne now.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCanadian Human Rights TribunalCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsRachelBlaneyNorth Island—Powell RiverJoanneWilkinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English] This is a bill that deals with jurisdictions, not funding. It deals with jurisdictions in a groundbreaking way that has never happened before—Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]—on which national organizations—Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]—such as the ITK and the Métis National Council and the Assembly of First Nations have worked with us. We followed their lead.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]I haven't said anything.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]It is not—GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Georgina, with all due respect—GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]I'm not condescending to you.GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]I would wish that everybody at this table would stop condescending to them.GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]No, I'm not missing the point. I'm not missing the point.GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]The nations and the bands themselves will determine that on their own. They will determine it on their own—GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]—separate from me, separate from you, separate from everyone at this table.GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]That is exactly the point that we wish to be at should this bill pass.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenGovernment billsGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English] I don't want to presume what that system will look like. I don't want to make any patronizing assumptions of how this will go.What we agreed upon were three fairly good principles, the first, of course, being for the child. The rights of the child are first and foremost.Secondly—and this is a very important point—the traditions, the culture and the language of an indigenous child are essential to their health.Thirdly, when dealing with the system, the child and the family caring for that child should be dealt with always with dignity. For those of you who have had fairly good treatment when you've dealt with hospitals, those may seem fairly basic things. They are not to a lot of people who will be affected by this legislation.Each one of them needs time to work through it. Those who determine that they're ready and would like to take this on now, that they've waited long enough....Last week I had dinner with a group of Cree women and elders just outside of Winnipeg who did not want to involve the province whatsoever. They said, “Let's get it done now.” We had to convince them that some work needed to be done.The bottom line is this: They have a year to enter into negotiations with the federal government and provincial government to help them build their own child and family services. A lot of that is based on making sure that a kid has access to all the right things, to the things that they know, their extended family, that in the eyes of the law they are legitimized, not that they need it, but that they're there and that they're empowered, and that communities get to develop their own way of dealing with situations, with dealing with children in care.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenCultural systemsFamilies and childrenGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0915)[English]I would simply finalize this. If after 12 months these coordination agreements are not dealt with in good faith, the legislation that has been developed by the indigenous groups will supersede provincial and federal law.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenCultural systemsFamilies and childrenGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonRobert-FalconOuelletteWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0920)[English] I turned him down because he wanted to talk about the legislation, and the legislation—Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0920)[English]Yes, and I'd very much like to talk to him about the legislation with the leadership of our co-development partners: the Assembly of First Nations, the ITK and the MNC leadership that was present. Three fine people were present for some of the meetings. We were as accommodating as possible. He did not want me in the official meeting, because he didn't want them in the official meeting, so we tacked on an extra day. It was a good opportunity then for us to discuss it.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0920)[English]I'm very disappointed they wouldn't meet with me. I'll be blunt. This is what reconciliation looks like. They wrote it with me.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]I have?KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]No, I'm not content with it, but there it is.KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]Continue negotiating— KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]—with the provinces that certainly want to.KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]I'll take his phone call any time he calls me.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]I spoke with him on several occasions last week.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]You can see where I'm coming from—KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]I flew in from Saskatoon. I went to a meeting a day early because they didn't want to have me at the official meeting. So I went to the unofficial meeting. Then they refused to put me on the minutes as having existed at the meeting, nor did they want to put on the minutes the existence of the three other organizations that were with me. I don't take anything too personally in all of this. These are all the kinds of games that we play in the short term. In the long term, do I think we'll get there? Yes, I do believe we'll get there. I think that all provinces will come onside, because it just makes too much sense. There will be games played. That's fine. That's politics.Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsKevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0930)[English]To go back to the beginning of your question, I just counted back, and there were 22 engagements with provinces and territories in the summer and fall of 2018 on options for potential federal indigenous child and family services legislation. And 22 at the senior level, the deputy minister level, is—Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsTribunals and courts of lawArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockArnoldViersenPeace River—Westlock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0935)[English]Well, I mean, regardless we'd be here, no matter how well those meetings went or how poorly they went. Aboriginal peoplesC-92, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and familiesCare for childrenFamilies and childrenFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsTribunals and courts of lawArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1620)[English] On a point of information, Mr. Chair, does this mean that they'll be coming back that so other members of the committee can continue to ask them the questions we've prepared? What's going to happen with that?Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English]Point of order, Mr. Chair.I'm not sure if this is a point of order, but we had a business meeting scheduled after this where we intended to deal with this very motion. I'm not sure if Ms. Kwan is aware that that was the purpose of the meeting. We have some responses to it, so I'm not sure if it's relevant, but we're prepared to deal with the motion. She doesn't need to talk out the clock if she wants to get to her motion.JennyKwanVancouver EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I reiterate that we have, on our side, an opportunity to resolve the issues raised by the motion with the member, but if she walks the clock out, we won't be able to have any meetings, and it won't be for any lack of efforts on our side to make her motion come to fruition.JennyKwanVancouver EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair, for your work behind the scenes to speak with officials to see what we could arrange so this committee could be in a position where we could do this good work.Before I speak too much to the motion at hand, I just want to propose some amendments and then speak to why we're proposing each of the amendments. It might allow us to do this more quickly.I'm going to propose that we—Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Okay.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]The way I'm going to do it is to propose four amendments, just so we can keep some of the structure of what Ms. Kwan proposed. That way I think we will get to all of the items. Just trust me, as I think we can get through this.The first amendment I am proposing is that after the words “the Committee” in the first line, strike the word “immediately” and replace it with the words “at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance”.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Yes.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]I can hand it out after I've read it all out, and then she can see it. Is that the best way to do it?Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Yes.Then immediately after where it says “Part 4, Division 15”, insert a semi-colon and the words—Committee businessDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English] Sure. What we want to—Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1715)[English]Fine, Mr. Chair. I'm happy to do it that way.We Liberals are going to propose what would ultimately amount to a study on part 4, division 15, with at least three meetings involving the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship and the officials.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestNickWhalenSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: Then we would have a separate study on part 4, division 16, with at least three meetings with the Minister of Border Security and departmental officials. That would take place within the timeline proposed by the current letter. Although the current letter only asks us to look at division 15, my proposed changes will clarify that we're being asked to do 15. We're also going to take it upon ourselves to do division 16, and then...I know you're asking that the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration treat what we've done as being deemed proposed during clause-by-clause analysis of Bill C-97. I think we're going to propose to address your concern in a slightly different way, by having the committee invite the Standing Committee on Finance to consider any proposed amendments pertaining to those parts to be deemed proposed during clause-by-clause analysis of Bill C-97 in a separate motion at the end.I think that gets us to the same place, but rather than having at least eight meetings, we would having at least six, broken up as proposed. Rather than having the ministers at the same single meeting, we'd have the ministers come with respect to the divisions that involve them. So division 15 will be the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, and the second one will be the Minister of Border Security, and their related officials.In this way I think we end up with at least four hours of meetings on each topic involving civil society or other witnesses and two hours of meetings involving ministers and government officials on each topic. That should allow us to do this in the proposed time frame. That allows us to report back to the finance committee by May 17, including translation time and recommendation review, which would obviously need to happen no later than May 15, I hope, if everyone is able to work quickly.Frankly, very tight timelines will require meetings outside the normal schedule, but I think we have enough time in the schedule to do that.That's the contextual background for it.C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresCommittee businessNickWhalenSt. John's EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English]I just want to move my amendments now.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English]I will now propose the changes to the text so they would work.As I noted, the first change is that just after the words, “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee”, we would delete the word “immediately” and insert instead, “at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance”. All of the rest of the existing text is good through “Part 4, Division 15”. Then put a semicolon there and strike the words “and Part 4, Division 16” and the make the “T” in the following “That” lower case. The text would then be good until “both official languages”. Or would you rather have me just strike everything and replace it?Committee businessJennyKwanVancouver EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English]Okay. I was just trying to—Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English] Yes. Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1720)[English]Okay. That's fair enough. Here we go.Ms. Clerk, we'll just do it as one amendment. It would read: That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance, the Committee undertake a study on the subject matter of the following provisions of Bill C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget, tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019, and other measures: Part 4, Division 15; that, recommendations, including amendments be submitted to the Standing Committee on Finance in a letter to the Chair of the Standing Committee on Finance, in both official languages, no later than 4:00 p.m., on Friday May 17, 2019; that this study be comprised of no fewer than 3 meetings and; that the Minister of Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship be invited to appear;That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the subject matter of the following provisions of Bill C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget, tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019, and other measures: Part 4, Division 16; that, recommendations, including amendments be submitted to the Standing Committee on Finance in a letter to the Chair of the Standing Committee on Finance, in both official languages, no later than 4:00 p.m., on Friday May 17, 2019; that this study be comprised of no fewer than 3 meetings and; that the Minister for Border Security, and Departmental Officials be invited to appear; andThat the Chair of the Committee write, as promptly as possible, to the Chair of the Standing Committee on Finance to inform it of the Committees’ decision to study the subject matter of Part 4, division 15 and Part 4, division 16 of Bill C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019; and that the Committee invite the Standing Committee on Finance to consider any proposed amendments pertaining to Part 4, division 16 of Bill C-97 provided by the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration to the Standing Committee on Finance to be deemed proposed during the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-97That last little bit only refers to division 16, because they've already invited us to do that with respect to division 15.Those are the changes. If it would be helpful to someone, I'm happy to share a copy of this, but it should be pretty obvious. Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1740)[English]Ms. Rempel, when I say “at the request of the Standing Committee on Finance” in the first part of the amendment, that's because they've asked us. If we're doing this one, division 15, at their request, the next part is that we're doing division 16 on our own initiative, and then there's a third part of the amendment, which says that we're going to send them the stuff now. All of the stuff on division 15 is deemed reported, because that's what they've already said in their letter to us. The stuff related to division 16 is not deemed reported, but we're asking that they consider it to be deemed reported because we've given them this immediate notice that we intend to do it.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1740)[English]I think what we've managed to do over the course of the break, in trying to address Ms. Kwan's oral motion from prior to the break, is to get some type of soft commitment that they're going to consider this the right way. Committee businessDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1745)[English]That's exactly our intent as well.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1745)[English]It's past his bedtime.RandeepSaraiSurrey CentreRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1750)[English]It seems to me that, with four panels, over the meetings that aren't taken up with government officials, we could reasonably have 10 to 12 witnesses in the normal ratios. That would be the minimum. Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back after our short Easter break.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are on our study of aquatic invasive species. Today, of course, we have witnesses here, both in person and by video conference.From the Columbia Shuswap Invasive Species Society, Robyn Hooper, executive director, is joining us by video conference. From the Great Lakes Institute for Environmental Research, we have Dr. Hugh MacIsaac, professor and Canada research chair in aquatic invasive species, University of Windsor. From the Invasive Species Centre, we have two witnesses by video conference: Deborah Sparks, manager, business development and communications, and Rebecca Schroeder, liaison, aquatic invasive species. From the Invasive Species Council of BC, in person we have Gail Wallin, the executive director, and by video conference, hopefully, Jodi Romyn, senior manager. From the Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation, by video conference as well, we have Andrew Bouzan, president. From the Okanagan Basin Water Board, we have Anna Warwick Sears, executive director.Welcome, everybody. I would like to welcome Mr. Shields, the member for Bow River, and Mr. Breton, the member for Shefford, who are sitting in today. We look forward to your input.To start off, I'll remind the witnesses that the opening statements are for seven minutes or less. I will try to hold it as close to that as possible. We like to start with the witnesses by video conference, but we have nothing on our screens. While we're waiting, we'll jump ahead and let Ms. Wallin do her presentation for seven minutes or less. Go ahead, please.Invasive speciesGailWallin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you That was under time, which we don't get too often.Next I'll try to go back again to the Invasive Species Centre. I'm not sure who is speaking or if you're sharing your time, but you can start when you're ready. You have seven minutes or less, please.GailWallinDeborahSparks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you. Again, we're a little bit under time.We'll go now to Ms. Robyn Hooper, the executive director of the Columbia Shuswap Invasive Species Society. When you're ready, you have seven minutes or less, please.DeborahSparksRobynHooper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English] Thank you for that. Again that was under time, which is good to see. We'll now go to Mr. Bouzan, president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Wildlife Federation.Go ahead when you're ready, Andrew. Welcome back to the committee. Hang on, Andrew. There's no sound. While we try to fix that, we'll go to Dr. Hugh MacIsaac from the Great Lakes Institute for Environmental Research. When you're ready, sir, you have seven minutes or less. I understand that you have a slide show and that all members have been provided with a copy.RobynHooperHughMacIsaac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Dr. MacIsaac.We'll try Andrew again to see if we're hooked up for sound. Now that we have you, Andrew, you have seven minutes or less, please, when you're ready.HughMacIsaacAndrewBouzan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bouzan.Last, we'll go to Dr. Warwick Sears, for seven minutes or less, please.AndrewBouzanAnnaWarwick Sears//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you for that.Thank you to all of our witnesses for their presentations. We'll go into the question round now. Members, just a reminder that if you want a question to go to a person appearing by video conference, please identify them in your question as it's a little harder for them to be recognized.To the witnesses by video conference, if you want to add something to an answer that somebody else has given on a particular question, wave or something, and hopefully the person asking the question will see and recognize you as well.Now on the government side, we'll go to Mr. Rogers for seven minutes or less, please.AnnaWarwick SearsChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to all of our guests on video conference and here in the room with us today. I have a couple of specific questions that I want to direct to Mr. Bouzan, because, of course, Placentia Bay is included in the riding I represent in Newfoundland and Labrador. I've heard much discussion about green crabs and the challenge. I want you, Mr. Bouzan, if you could, to tell the committee how these green crab arrive in a province and how they have become a major problem for us and the fishing industry particularly. Do you have any recommendations as to how we would deal with that species in trying to control it or eradicate it?European green crabsInvasive speciesKenMcDonaldAvalonAndrewBouzan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1620)[English]You're good, yes.AndrewBouzanAndrewBouzan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1625)[English]Mr. Bouzan, thank you for that. I want to get on to another question now. Dr. MacIsaac, you've talked about monitoring and regulating pathways. I know species such as zebra mussels and Asian carp have become a large problem in the Great Lakes. How do you deal with these species when they're often transported by transatlantic ships? Is there a way to prevent them entering our ecosystem?Invasive speciesRisk managementAndrewBouzanHughMacIsaac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1625)[English]Ms. Wallin, is that part of your strategic approach in terms of working collaboratively with different groups and organizations at different levels?Invasive speciesHughMacIsaacGailWallin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers.Now we go to the Conservative side.Mr. Arnold, you have seven minutes or less, please.GailWallinMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Yes, you definitely are. Thank you, Mr. Arnold.Now we go to Mr. Johns, for seven minutes or less, please.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. You're over time.We go back now to the government side. Mr. Morrissey, for seven minutes or less.HughMacIsaacRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bouzan.We go now to the Conservative side, to Mr. Arnold again, for five minutes or less.Go ahead, please.AndrewBouzanMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Shields.Now back to the government side.Mr. Finnigan, you have five minutes or less, please.MartinShieldsBow RiverPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you. I notice Jodi Romyn has her hand up to comment on that. Go ahead, please.AnnaWarwick SearsJodiRomyn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Ms. Sparks, you were going to comment as well.JodiRomynDeborahSparks//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English] Thank you for that.Before I go to Mr. Calkins for five minutes or less, I will remind the committee that we have some committee business to do at the end. We can either add on a few minutes or finish up at 5:20 or 5:25. I will leave that up to the committee.Mr. Calkins, you have five minutes or less, please.DeborahSparksBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Mr. Bouzan has his hand up.AnnaWarwick SearsBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Go ahead, Jodi.AndrewBouzanJodiRomyn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you. Mr. Calkins, you just had a seven-minute session instead of five. We'll go back to the government side. Mr. Fraser, you have five minutes or less, please.AnnaWarwick SearsColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you. You were a bit over your time.We'll finish up now with Mr. Johns for three minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. That clues up this presentation with regard to our witnesses and questioning. We will stay for a couple of minutes once we've cleared the room. In closing, to our witnesses who appeared in person and by video conference, thank you for your patience, and of course, for your informative testimony to the committee today. [Proceedings continue in camera]GordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1115)[English]My assistant tells me it's a 14-hour difference. Is that right? The Clerk: Yes.LarryBagnellHon.YukonScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]What about 7 p.m.?ScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1145)[English]I mentioned earlier about the timing of the event. I mentioned that we should do it at 7 p.m. to accommodate the Australians, but really, an hour is not much of a difference.I've heard from others around the room that 6 p.m. would suffice, and I say that for the sake of my own health.LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1150)[English]When a serious incident has occurred, what do you see, in your mind, as some of the essential criteria in order for us to be effective?Electoral systemInformation disseminationLarryBagnellHon.YukonKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1150)[English]What does the information look like when the panellists for this protocol get it? When they receive that information, will it be a definitive “This is what's happening” or “We suspect and here are the data that we've collected,” and so on and so forth? How comprehensive is that?Electoral systemForeign influenced activitiesKarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1150)[English]Speaking of the panel, who constitutes this panel? What are you looking for in the individual panellists to be qualified for this position?Electoral systemTask forcesKarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]I originally said 7 p.m. However, after receiving a wave of apprehension and hate—maybe that's a strong word—six o'clock is fine.Committee businessLarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]Would you like to hold the meeting at seven?Committee businessScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Kingston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]That's seven o'clock and 8:30 in Newfoundland?Committee businessScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]That sounds good to me.Committee businessLarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]I would like to hear Mr. Cullen's thoughts on this, if that's all right.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1155)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Mr. Minister, as a rural member of Parliament, I represent very small communities in my riding of Bonavista—Burin—Trinity. We often hear from these municipalities about infrastructure upgrades. Sometimes they can't afford large infrastructure projects. How is government supporting rural and remote communities with their unique infrastructure challenges and needs?InfrastructureInterim estimates 2019-2020Remote communitiesRural communitiesSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Judy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1200)[English]A follow-up question to that is around Internet connectivity and cell service across rural Canada. It's been a topic of major discussion among rural caucus and Atlantic caucus, which represent many small communities.Internet connectivity is so important for these rural communities, to allow for business development and business expansion, such as in the tourism industry and others. I know in my riding, it's a major challenge. On the Bay de Verde peninsula, for example, we have some great small businesses. However, they are not connected to the Internet. They have a very difficult time trying to promote, develop and expand their businesses.What are we doing about trying to improve on that?Broadband Internet servicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Rural communitiesSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019François-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—ChamplainFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1200)[English] I know the gas tax fund bumped up the extra $2.2 billion, which leaves $32.9 million for small communities in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, particularly. We truly appreciate that extra funding. I know that you've been on the road a lot across the country. What are some of the things you've learned on the ground, and some things that may have surprised you about the challenges small rural communities face?Interim estimates 2019-2020Rural communitiesSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019François-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—ChamplainFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Before we get into the agenda items, I want to get one piece of business out of the way. Everybody has the budget for Bill S-203. Can we get approval to adopt that budget?It is moved by Mr. Finnigan.(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])The Chair: Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we continue our study of the migration of lobster and snow crab in Atlantic Canada and the impact of changes to lobster carapace size.We have a good many witnesses today, some by teleconference, some by video conference and one in person, with a lot of names up next to him but they're all either on the screen or on the phone. Mr. Fitzpatrick, welcome. As you're an independent owner-operator fish harvester, you have lots of company, but they're just not here with you. From the Coldwater Lobster Association we have Bernie Berry, President; and Heather Mulock, Manager. They're on teleconference. From the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, we have Bobby Jenkins, President; Pat O'Neill, Interim Executive Director; Melanie Giffin, Marine Biologist and Program Planner; and Laura Ramsay, Research and Liaison Officer.From the Gulf of Maine Research Institute, we have Andrew Pershing, Chief Scientific Officer, by video conference.From the Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial University of Newfoundland, by video conference, we have Arnault Le Bris. I believe he was here the other day. We got interrupted so often that we never actually had a meeting. Welcome back again sir, even by video conference. We'll start off with statements. We'll do the one by teleconference first. I believe, Mr. Berry, you're going to do the statement. You have seven minutes or less. Atlantic CanadaCetaceansCrabsDecisions in committeeLobstersMotionsPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsBernieBerry//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Berry.We will now go to the Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association, for seven minutes or less, please.BernieBerryPatO'Neill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. O'Neill.We'll now go to the Gulf of Maine Research Institute with Mr. Pershing for seven minutes or less, please.PatO'NeillAndrewPershing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]We'll go now to Mr. Le Bris, from the Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial University of Newfoundland, for seven minutes or less, please.AndrewPershingArnaultLe Bris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Le Bris.Now we'll go to Mr. Fitzpatrick, for seven minutes or less.ArnaultLe BrisAlfredFitzpatrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fitzpatrick. Let's hope you get some answers from some of the people here regarding the questions you're wondering about and the situation you're describing.We'll now go to the question round. On the government side we have Mr. Fraser, for seven minutes or less, please.AlfredFitzpatrickColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fraser. Your time is up.Now we go to the Conservative side with Mr. Arnold for seven minutes or less.Go ahead, please.AndrewPershingMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you.We go now to the NDP. Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. Your time is up.We'll now go back to the government side to Mr. Morrissey, but before that, Mr. Johns, I have to ask you to take the chair, which I have to vacate.AlfredFitzpatrickGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome to all our guests, and to you, Alfred, in particular, being from my riding in Newfoundland and Labrador.I want to focus a little on snow crab. Of course you're well aware of the challenges we face this year with some significant proposed cuts by DFO for the TAC for snow crab. It has created a lot of concern and alarm among the harvesters in the fishing community in most of the province. But in 3Ps, where you fish, you saw a significant increase in quota. I'd like you to tell this committee why you think that happened and whether you are comfortable with that level of increase.Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniAlfredFitzpatrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1640)[English]You went through some tough times, and there's some concern around the rate at which the fishery has been opened—it's been cautious. During that period, and even today, are you and other harvesters providing advice to DFO on stock management, and are they listening?Atlantic CanadaCrabsDepartment of Fisheries and OceansFisheries policyLobstersAlfredFitzpatrickAlfredFitzpatrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1645)[English]Alfred, knowing what you know now, and based on your experiences for the past number of years, decades, or whatever, what's your opinion on the proposed precautionary approach, PA, to the future fishery? Do you think harvesters can make a good contribution to setting limits and reference points and so on?Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries policyLobstersPrecautionary principleAlfredFitzpatrickAlfredFitzpatrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1620)[Translation]Thank you.We have a group called the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador that is connected to a small organization named Compas, which provides settlement services in St. John's and all over Newfoundland and Labrador. A few weeks ago, their representatives spoke to me about the issues mentioned earlier by Mr. Mymko and Ms. Crane. They explained that there are people who devote 10 or 15 hours a week to that issue, but spend the rest of their time on other matters.I'd like to ask you whether an organization like yours could conceivably administer those services and create partnerships with service providers in small francophone communities throughout the country in order to provide better service.FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestAlainDupuis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1620)[Translation]On this same topic, the Compas organization representatives told me that the issue isn't necessarily the lack of communication among francophone community groups. It is, rather, the anglophone groups that do not know the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador well enough, and do not have sufficiently strong links with it when they deal with refugees or other persons who would really need French-language services. The challenge lies with explaining those services to the anglophone groups.Do you think the federal government could do something to strengthen the links, not only among francophone groups, but also between the anglophone service providers and minority francophone groups, everywhere in the country?FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsAlainDupuisAlainDupuis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1620)[English] Maybe if I can continue with Mr. Mymko and Ms. Crane as a bit of a focus group, are you guys aware of the types of francophone settlement services that might be available, either in Manitoba or rural Ontario? How do you work with those other organizations, if you're aware of them?FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsAlainDupuisDustinMymko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1625)[English]You would say that if we're going to fund these types of collaborative activities, it would work well to grow this network.FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsKristinCraneKristinCrane//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1625)[English]Mr. Mymko, you spoke a bit earlier about your possible reluctance to engage in an administrative partnership with the group in Brandon, Manitoba. You've been coming around to it as an organization. Has the conversation we've had today either reinforced your desire to come into partnership with Brandon or made you rethink it? What might be your thoughts on these types of administrative partnerships? FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsKristinCraneDustinMymko//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1625)[English]Congratulations. It sounds very much like if half of the children in the local school are either first- or second-generation newcomers and that it's really your efforts and the efforts of your group that have allowed that to happen.I think that's my time.FrancophonesLinguistic minoritiesSettlement of immigrantsDustinMymkoRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Thank you all for coming.Ms. Desloges, you've made some really great recommendations.I'm not sure if you're aware of the Atlantic immigration pilot and the rural and northern pilot, which attempt to, in some way, address some of your concerns, particularly by allowing at least immediate family members to come to the country and put down roots. They also provide settlement services as part of the plan when the company brings them over and it eliminates the LMIA. I'd love your thoughts on whether or not you think there should be any tweaking around that program. How can it better ensure that when people come to the country they're going to put down roots and help grow the particular part of the country where they land?Labour Market Impact AssessmentSettlement of immigrantsMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillChantalDesloges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]You talk about a situation that I haven't seen a lot of in St. John's. Maybe it applies to the larger cities. I'm trying to wrap my head around how, in the immigration phase, if there's someone who's intent on scamming the program by just coming to the country, pretending they're coming to stay, then leaving their dependants and going back to earn money elsewhere.... If that was their intent and some type of fraud is occurring, I'm not sure how somebody would screen that out.Do you have any particular examples where that was able to be screened out or would have been known from the beginning?Application processSettlement of immigrantsChantalDeslogesChantalDesloges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]I'll turn to our guests from Calgary, Ms. Kwok and Ms. Hakemy. I like it when we hear from groups that are engaging in all this wonderful group without federal funding. When you said that Calgary Learns pays, do you mean for all the services you provide, or is that just with respect to Stepping Stones and the computer-enhanced learning?Education and trainingSettlement of immigrantsChantalDeslogesLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]Okay. It seems like you have been around for a long time and this funding model is working for you. Where do you see gaps? Where do you think that the type of funding you need to provide your service currently isn't being provided?Settlement of immigrantsLilyKwokLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]When you talk about the problem you're trying to address with Stepping Stones, where people are coming to Canada and they actually don't have good literacy skills in their first language, besides your program, are you aware of other successful programs that are being offered nationwide and we could contrast with yours?Settlement of immigrantsLilyKwokLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Okay.If I understand correctly, Stepping Stones is more like bilingual language training in the person's own language and in English at the same time in order to speed up the process because they're unable to read textbooks that would help them. Settlement of immigrantsLilyKwokLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]In addition to the East Indian community and the Afghan community you mentioned, did you also mention the Korean community? Who else is looking to establish this type of program?Settlement of immigrantsLilyKwokLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]When you say “infrastructure”, you actually mean physical space. It wasn't that you were looking for people with the necessary skills; it was actually physical space for the program. Settlement of immigrantsLilyKwokLilyKwok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Okay.I'm not sure if I have much time left, but I do have another question. LilyKwokRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Okay.Ms. Desloges, could you make one particular recommendation around skills recognition and where, in your experience, there is a gap? The federal government has put a lot of money into the labour market agreements with the provinces to help existing Canadians access retraining and re-skilling services. Is there anything along that line that we can do with respect to the newcomer population?Education and trainingSettlement of immigrantsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestChantalDesloges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]It is almost like a student loan for newcomers?Settlement of immigrantsChantalDeslogesChantalDesloges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1605)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Ross, I'd like to begin with you and ask a couple of questions about LNG Canada's project. Maybe you can help us, first, at a very high level, to refresh our memories on the scope and magnitude of the project. You can also maybe quantify the financial value that the various indigenous groups, the province and Canada expect to obtain. Then I'll move on to some other questions.Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreEllisRoss//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1605)[English] What is your understanding of an appropriate process to accommodate or arrive at some type of consensus if one of your members decided they want to pull out?EllisRossEllisRoss//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1605)[English]Now we're closed, but if, in the course of a negotiation, 25 indigenous groups within the community that you represent as a member of the legislature are in favour, one of the indigenous groups may decide along the way that they're not interested. What's an appropriate mechanism to try to achieve some type of consensus amongst the groups?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelUnanimous consentEllisRossEllisRoss//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]Maybe I'll turn to you, Mr. Sullivan, because it sounds like Mr. Ross has been through a successful process where they were able to dot all the i's and cross all the t's, but it took a long time. You're talking about an energy project up north where you guys were very close to the finish line, but then couldn't get there in terms of the ongoing benefits associated with the electricity.Do you think there are any commonalities in approach that might help a project like yours have the same success that LNG Canada had?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelOil and gasEllisRossGrantSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]Who is likely to be the primary market for the power?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesElectric powerEnergy and fuelGrantSullivanGrantSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]It's not for the whole Northwest Territories; it's for the local community.Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesElectric powerEnergy and fuelGrantSullivanGrantSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]It seems there that the problem is capital.It's something we've heard about from a lot of different witnesses during this process. Do either of you have any suggestions of creative ways we can ensure that indigenous groups can participate with equity stakes or capital interests in the projects that occur in their backyard, especially when they're going to be the consumer market for the end goods?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGrantSullivanGrantSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]It's interesting. I know that in the case of municipal infrastructure, there's municipal, provincial and federal participation. It seems that for indigenous infrastructure, it would make sense for there to be territorial, indigenous and federal.Mr. Ross, do you agree with that? Do you see some other way to ensure that the groups can have meaningful, long-term equity interests in projects that benefit them or impact them?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelInvestmentGrantSullivanEllisRoss//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1610)[English]Thank you very much.EllisRossJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Tan.Mr. Andreassen, I'll get you involved in the conversation here. One of the issues that our committee grappled with early in this study was with respect both to opening and to closing new areas to development. There's an obligation to consult with indigenous people, and there's some question on whether or not we've done as good a job as we should when we're closing an area to development as when we're opening it. In Alaska, there are a lot of issues in the news today regarding whether or not President Trump has an ability to end the moratorium on Arctic drilling, but I would like to get a sense from you. To what extent were indigenous folks in Alaska involved in setting up the prohibition or the moratorium on Arctic drilling in the first place? How have they been involved with President Trump in removing it now?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelOil wellsPublic consultationGengTanDon Valley NorthNilsAndreassen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]Thank you.Mr. Tan.NilsAndreassenGengTanDon Valley North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1120)[English]Thank you, gentlemen, for being here today, Jason by video, and Scott. Scott, I know your busing system; you've been transporting school children to events across the province. From your perspective, what are the challenges you would see in requiring all school buses, or any buses, to have seat belts for the children you transport?BusesSeat beltsTransportation safetyKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsScottParsons//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1120)[English] Beyond that...?ScottParsonsScottParsons//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]I just want to ask Mr. Roberts a question. You talked about it at the beginning of your presentation. You really focused on driver training, driver competence as a big factor in terms of how you're maintaining your safety record. You talked about how your buses travel over long stretches at high speeds, particularly in Newfoundland and Labrador, with some of the winter weather conditions and so on. What do you think is the best possible thing the government could do to ensure safe or safer bus travel? Are things being done to the national standards that Scott talked about? Are things being done at this stage that you see as enough? What else should government be doing?BusesTransportation safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJasonRoberts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1235)[English]Mr. Benson, I was just reading your your executive summary. You talk about how you're supportive, of course, of seat belts, but then you list 11 serious concerns that your membership has highlighted in terms of how we function with seat belts on school buses, the challenge of enforcement and so on.Is it possible to address all of these concerns by using monitors? Would they be able to take care of most of that?Backup camera systemBusesTransportation safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekPhilBenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1235)[English]I appreciate where you're coming from.Again, it says in your statement that, “Notwithstanding the statistics, the 'egg crate' method of protecting children in school buses is not sufficient for higher speed collisions, T-bone accidents and roll overs. Restrain[t] systems are the best solution....”Most of the concerns—from the previous panellists, as well—were about high speed on the highway in terms of restraints. The lower speed doesn't seem to be the issue in terms of protecting children in school buses. So, from that perspective, do you think that school buses with safety belts in high-speed situations would be a positive step forward?BusesSchool busesSeat beltsSpeed limitsTransportation safetyPhilBensonPhilBenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1110)[English] Thank you, Chair.Mr. Clerk, it's been ages. How have you been?For those who weren't here last time, he was just here.Some hon. members: Oh, oh!Mr. Scott Simms: First of all, I think this is a fantastic exercise that you're doing. I think that in most cases it's long overdue. I don't claim to be the smartest person around any table—God forbid I'd do that—but sometimes I read these rules and in my mind I find myself trying to read the language and it's literally like Cirque du Soleil up here, trying to go back and forth between this, that and the other thing. It's just not friendly at all to the average reader or to anybody who is not a—I believe you used the term “jurilinguist”.What flags initially arose that have brought us to this point where you have a document that's ready to go and ready to be looked at?ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsLarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]I've always been fascinated by your knowledge of the other jurisdictions. Have other jurisdictions undertaken this size of a project? I should say other countries, sorry.ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]Oh, my.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Well, they're new.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]I noticed that when I went to Scotland: a lot of their rules take the “best practices of”, but that's probably because of their newness. But I think it's far overdue for us.You mentioned that one of the other things you want to do is clear up the writing to more of an active style of writing. Can you expand on that?ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]The second part of that was that you referred to the index; that it would be immensely helpful.ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English] I like that, too, because, being parliamentarians, we have other duties that take us to our constituencies and so on and so forth. I find that I'm able to catch up only if my flight is a longer flight and I can sit down with this stuff and try to absorb it. With the index, now I can do that in a much quicker fashion, so I strongly endorse that.You mentioned the fall. I'd say, for committees as much as anything else, that the exercise of having an evening debate on Standing Orders, which usually follows shortly after the election, should come a little bit later to allow new members of Parliament to get more experience with the Standing Orders before making some substantial changes. Not everybody can be David Graham, for goodness sakes. I think you're saying that's the place where the next one, following the next election, is—ProcedureStanding Orders of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Obviously, it would be far more efficient if we chose that.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]You're good. You'd be fantastic in a scrum. You know that, don't you?Thank you, Clerk.CharlesRobertLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1610)[English]On a point of order, Mr. Chair, we do have the minister coming on the main estimates within the next month. I am wondering if it would be sufficient for Ms. Stubbs to have the opportunity to question the minister on the broad variety of things one can be questioned on with respect to the main estimates, including money allocated to TMX, at that time, and allow the witnesses who have come from abroad and who have made themselves available for this meeting to continue to be questioned. Or we could devote some time at a future meeting to having a second opportunity for the minister to come and speak to us on TMX in addition to the main estimates, if that would be amenable to her.Committee businessShannonStubbsLakelandJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1615)[English]We can just leave the motion open but not debate it right now. We'll discuss it next week, because I think Ms. Stubbs might want him twice.Committee businessShannonStubbsLakelandJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1630)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'm happy for this opportunity to bring some of our international guests back into the conversation.Each of the testimonies we've heard raises issues around the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, and you've all emphasized the importance of free, prior and informed consent. Can you advise the committee as to how first Norway and then Australia has acted to ensure that capacity is built among indigenous communities to ensure that consultation is in fact informed? How do you build that technical expertise in Norway and Australia to ensure that people are able to participate in a meaningful way and an informed way in what is often a very technical discussion?Aboriginal peoplesAboriginal rightsAustraliaBest practicesConsentEnergy and fuelNorwayJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreGunn-BrittRetter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English]Mr. O'Faircheallaigh.Gunn-BrittRetterCiaranO'Faircheallaigh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. O'Faircheallaigh. As you may have heard previously, I only get seven minutes to ask my questions, and I would like you to answer mine.CiaranO'FaircheallaighCiaranO'Faircheallaigh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English] Well, let's stay there in Canada, because you said that you've done some work in the oil and gas sector off the east coast. We actually have a process now that's just coming to an end with respect to Equinor and ExxonMobil and consultations for offshore development of the exploratory drilling projects proposed this summer.Proponent funding was granted to allow the indigenous groups, 41 of them, I believe, that may or may not.... It's quite unknown whether or not their fishing rights in Atlantic salmon would be impacted, but they were all invited to participate. It seems that the ones that were given more funding were the ones that were actually already better able to participate because they were already well funded, and the less well-funded groups were given less money. Do you see this disconnect in Australia—I think you've mentioned it—and how should we try to work around that?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelNegotiations and negotiatorsCiaranO'FaircheallaighCiaranO'Faircheallaigh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English]Okay. Thank you.CiaranO'FaircheallaighCiaranO'Faircheallaigh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1640)[English]Thank you so much. I have eight more questions, but I only got one in. CiaranO'FaircheallaighJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English] Maybe we could use the example that I referred to before about the indigenous consultation that's happening at the same time as the environmental assessment for offshore Newfoundland and Labrador. There are no direct land rights associated with the exploration area, but there are perhaps indirect or ancillary economic rights associated with their local fisheries.I wonder if each of you can explain or maybe provide your view of your own national law on when consultation in respect to proposed environmental drilling should begin. Should it begin once a proponent decides to go? Should it begin when the state decides to open an area up for licensing? Should it begin the first time someone is interested in doing some seismic testing in the area?You've talked about early engagement, but then with respect to indirect rights it's unclear to me when you would suggest the best practice would be for indigenous consultation in that type of scenario, in the scenario we see of offshore oil and gas exploration.Maybe we'll start this time with Canada, then go to Australia, and then to Norway.Aboriginal peoplesAboriginal rightsBest practicesConsentEnergy and fuelJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreBrendaGunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]Okay. We can go the other way.BrendaGunnBrendaGunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Thank you.Australia.BrendaGunnCiaranO'Faircheallaigh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1700)[English]Norway, I know you have only one particular group there, so it might not be as complicated as it is for Canada and Australia, but I would love your perspective.Aboriginal peoplesAboriginal rightsBest practicesConsentEnergy and fuelCiaranO'FaircheallaighGunn-BrittRetter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1110)[English] I am the second Scott—any more Scotts and we'd have a country.Mr. Robert, first of all, it's a pleasure to have you here, sir. We spoke to the clerk in the U.K. He speaks highly of you.LarryBagnellHon.YukonCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]Yes, he does. I guess you've probably already figured that out, but I thought I'd let you know.I really liked your presentation here, and I'll tell you why. It's not in generalities as to how this could work or may not work or what have you; you've made some specific recommendations here that I like. You end off your report “would serve as a benchmark and its recommendations would be food for thought in the debate pursuant to Standing Order 51.” I'm putting that out there, because I think it should be a part of our report. Again, these are my opinions.I want to go back to something else that you pointed out. It seems to me that the best advice we can get from you is along the lines of what's feasible and what's not feasible. I have a few opinions about a parallel chamber. I enjoy the makeup and characteristics of what is in Australia. I enjoy the makeup and characteristics of what is in the U.K. They seem to be working in different spheres as to how they operate.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]I have a very specific question.Given the fact that we don't have programming, although interestingly enough, the Senate seems to be delving into some type of program that I haven't fully read about yet, but they're doing something.... However, when it comes to programming of bills, they tend to go on for some time and then they get guillotined, as the members of Parliament in the U.K. would say. In the absence of that, would a parallel chamber serve as a way of allowing more parliamentarians to debate any particular bill that is in front of us?BillsDebateParallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]Since 1999, yes.BillsDebateParallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Yes.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]To me, that supplements the legislation that we're currently doing, which is primarily government legislation. Now, if I'm correct, what I take from the U.K. model is that it's more of a supplement of backbenchers and their business in bringing forward other items such as emergency debates and petition debates, which is rather new, but it supplements the members to do their work in other areas, if need be.Parallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]It's exclusively focused on that, if I'm not mistaken.Parallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Ah, see, you're good. You anticipated my question. Can we combine both?Parallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]My goodness. This is all I had. Just kidding.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]That's why you're here, because you're just throwing way too much out there. That's a good thing.Do you think, if the parallel chamber was to run not in the same calendar days, that would affect the functions of this House? Let's say there's a constituency week and you have—Parallel debating ChamberSittings of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Oh, I'm sorry, did I ruin someone's vacation?CharlesRobertLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Would that be a possibility? Do other jurisdictions do that, would you know?Parallel debating ChamberSittings of the House of CommonsLindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Like a Friday.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]I see what you mean. Okay.CharlesRobertLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]What? Oh, I feel like I've just begun. Thank you.LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1130)[English]Agreed.An hon. member: Have you ever had one?David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1130)[English]One in 15 years.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]That's comforting.Voices: Oh, oh!David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]After you, of course.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1150)[English]I'd like to address something mentioned earlier, the whip situation. I don't think you do this in a vacuum unto itself and exclude the whips. In my humble opinion, I think you create something here that avoids the pitfalls through which a whip can get in trouble, as it were. So the whip has to make sure the votes are there, the people are there for the votes, the legislation is moving through. I'd say whip and government House leader as well, of course.I don't think the parallel chamber should be something that interferes with their function in any way, shape or form. If we're doing government legislation of the day in the parallel chamber so that other people get to speak, then if I don't get a chance to do it in West Block or in the House of Commons, I will get a chance to speak on this issue in the parallel chamber. But again, that would still be subservient to the House of Commons proceedings.I champion the cause for backbenchers, but I wouldn't want to take away the essential functions of the whip or the House leader for reasons that are obvious.By the way, somebody else brought up votes and the marathon votes and that sort of thing. Well, that's something we also have to look at. That's something entirely different. I've told this story before and I'll tell it again. I had three or four members of the European Parliament come over to witness question period. Following question period, there was a vote. This one individual—I forget her name now, but she's been in the European Parliament for almost two decades—said, “It was a fascinating experience. I like your question period, because the questions are limited to 35 seconds.” I told her why and she said, “Well, it's very exciting. You debate like it's the 21st century, but why do you still vote like it's the 19th century?” That's true, because of electronic voting, but that's a whole other issue. I thought I'd just throw that in there.When it comes to the parallel chamber, though, what about the idea of witnesses? One of the advantages we have here with committees, including committee of the whole, is that we're able.... As a former chair of the fisheries committee, I can talk about what experience fishermen go through on a daily basis, but when I have a witness from Toogood Arm—that exists, by the way; it's a town—who comes in and says, “This is what's actually going on in the ocean right now,” that is a huge advantage. They can come in and give us the most vital experience, such as we're going to see with Samara next. They know what they're talking about.Parallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]In these parallel chambers, is there a way we can include witness testimony?EvidenceParallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]That's true, but do we have to stick to the confines of the committee of the whole?EvidenceParallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]Okay.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]Yes.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English] Sorry, but what's a lay member?CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]Right.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]All right.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1155)[English]Thank you, Scott.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1200)[English]I was just going to make one comment. Maybe that's one of the things we could do. For example, there's the case that you can refer a bill to committee before second reading. That way you could just open up the bill to many more amendments. What you could do is send it to the parallel chamber, if that be the case.EvidenceParallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1200)[English]That's in the second chamber.CharlesRobertLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]Dr. Thomas and Mr. Morden, I'm glad you guys are here. Thank you so much. You have done us all a great service in the work you have done, especially in getting to the nub of the issue of what excites us about being here, and at the same time, what frustrates us about being here. I hate to focus on what frustrates us, but you just have to read my householder to figure out what excites me about being here. Let's talk about what is frustrating.Here's what you said earlier: Two-thirds of the MPs you surveyed are not satisfied with the debate proceedings as they are now. Is that correct?Parallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonMichaelMorden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1215)[English]That's a hell of a number to look at. That's everybody but cabinet, almost, right?Voices: Oh, oh!Mr. Scott Simms: That tells us that we're way behind in making this place more accessible, and accessible not only to parliamentarians but the disconnect also between Canadians.... That makes it further worse, this situation that we're in, to try to find a cohesive place, so I'm glad you came here with some actual suggestions, especially when you say the Westminster Hall is preferred. Let me get to that, because we're juxtaposing, for the most part, Westminster Hall and the Federation Chamber, as I think it's called, in Australia.In Westminster Hall, one of the most popular things for a parallel chamber is the petition aspect. People bring in a petition and it gets a lot of attention from the public. That's one aspect. Is this the type of thing that you see as the best possible route for a parallel chamber?Parallel debating ChamberPetitionsMichaelMordenMichaelMorden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]Dr. Thomas.MichaelMordenPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1220)[English]Obviously, you can't have hard and fast rules on this. I agree with that, by the way. I wanted to use that as an illustration. To me, that's one that exemplifies what Westminster Hall is about—this petition process—in addition to the other stuff that backbenchers do.Very quickly then, on the other side of the equation, this is one thing that interests me. With time allocation now being used often here—and more in the last Parliament—if we had a parallel chamber to allow more members to debate government legislation, would that work, in your opinion?BillsDebateParallel debating ChamberPaulThomasMichaelMorden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1225)[English]It could address an issue, but it's not as important as the other aspect of allowing citizens to be more engaged in debate through the Westminster Hall-type system. Is that a safe assumption? Is that what you assume?Parallel debating ChamberPublic consultationMichaelMordenPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English]In our little system. ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1120)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Welcome to our guests.First of all, I'll reference the documentary I watched on the The Fifth Estate about a study conducted by various groups that talked about how seat belts could make children safer on school buses when it comes to certain types of crashes.Could you talk about that study a little bit and how it might factor into the current task force review?BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekMichaelDeJong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1120)[English]Okay.MichaelDeJongKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1120)[English]Is the test you're going to do this summer part of the task force review?BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyKevinBrosseauKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English] When is the timeline for the task force to complete its work? BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyKevinBrosseauMichaelDeJong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]Okay, thank you.When it comes to bus safety, you see other jurisdictions in this report. It referenced the investigation. Do you know what other countries do when it comes to things like seat belts on buses or other safety measures to ensure that people survive bus crashes? Have you done much research on that?BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyMichaelDeJongKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]Has there been a reduction in fatalities as a result of these efforts?BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyKevinBrosseauMichaelDeJong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]In 2020, it will be mandatory for new coach buses to have seat belts. Why have school buses been left out of this new requirement? I know you've answered that question a number of times with different questioners, so just a short answer would be fine.BusesSchool busesSeat beltsTransportation safetyMichaelDeJongKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]I realize all the—KevinBrosseauJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]I realize all the variations of that. Back in Nova Scotia, my grandson was involved with a school bus partially leaving the highway because of freezing rain conditions. He had quite a scare, actually. Judy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1125)[English]He made reference to the fact that there are no seat belts on school buses, but he's always strapped in when he's in other vehicles.Thank you, Madam Chair.KevinBrosseauJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1610)[English] Good afternoon, everyone.Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the migration of lobster and snow crab in Atlantic Canada and the impact of changes to lobster carapace size.Today we have witnesses from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We have Mr. Hardy, manager of the fisheries and ecosystem sciences division, gulf region. We have Ms. Orok, director of fish population science and acting director general of ecosystem science, national capital region; Mr. Mullowney, biologist, shellfish science, Newfoundland and Labrador region; and David Whorley from resource management operations. Welcome to you all. I believe, Ms. Orok, you're going to start off but you're sharing your presentation.Atlantic CanadaCrabsLobstersRowenaOrok//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Okay. We'll get to our questioning very shortly.Before we get to the questioning, I would like to welcome Mr. Dean Allison, the member for Niagara West, who is representing the Conservative side today as an additional replacement, I guess, for lack of a better word.Welcome to the committee, sir.MatthewHardyDeanAllisonNiagara West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]We'll start with seven minutes on the government side for Mr. Fraser.DeanAllisonNiagara WestColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fraser. Your time is up.We will now go to the Conservative side.Mr. Arnold, you have seven minutes or less, please.ColinFraserWest NovaMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]I'm sorry. Your time is up.We'll now go to the NDP. Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes, please.DavidWhorleyGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns.Now we'll go back to the government side. Mr. Morrissey, you have seven minutes.DavidWhorleyRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Morrissey. You're right at your time limit.Now we'll go to the Conservative side, with Mr. Calkins for five minutes or less, please.DavidWhorleyBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins. You're actually a minute over.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Yes, you're actually over by 47 seconds. Five minutes don't be long going.That concludes this portion of our committee meeting. I want to thank our witnesses for appearing today.Do you want to extend beyond 5:30? Is that the wish of the committee?BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]That's not what I'm asking.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]I'm asking if it's the will of the committee to extend beyond 5:30.Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay. We'll go back to the Liberal side, for five minutes or less.Mr. Rogers.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, guests, for being here.I just want to focus a little bit on the very comprehensive science program that you have in terms of assessing stocks, as you've outlined in your slides. It looks like a very comprehensive approach and methodology. Mr. Mullowney, in terms of snow crab, I know you've done a lot of work in the Newfoundland and Labrador region. I hear from residents, fishers and harvesters in my riding that there's a conflict between what they perceive as the state of the stock versus what science is portraying as the state of the stock. For instance, I met with a large group of fisher-people last week, who said that in the Bonavista Bay region there was a 50% increase last year in CPUE ratios or rates in their harvesting period, and they had no issue with being able to meet their quota and catch the resources they were allocated. What I'm trying to figure out is why there is such a conflict between what harvesters believe the state of the stock is versus what science is telling us.Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries stocksLobstersKenMcDonaldAvalonDarrellMullowney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1700)[English]I keep hearing from harvesters who have been on the water for decades that the state of their stock last year was much better than the previous year. What are some of the factors that lead to the results you're getting? What are some of the factors that might be leading to the decline in the biomass?Atlantic CanadaCrabsFisheries stocksLobstersDarrellMullowneyDarrellMullowney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1705)[English]Can I ask one more short question? I know time is short.What credence do people such as yourself, Darrell, and others in the science community give to the advice they receive from harvesters?Atlantic CanadaCrabsLobstersPublic consultationDarrellMullowneyDarrellMullowney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1705)[English]Am I done?DarrellMullowneyKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]You have 30 seconds. You'll be done if you sit still like that.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1705)[English]I just want to ask about environmental factors. Are warming oceans having some impact on stocks?Atlantic CanadaClimate change and global warmingCrabsFisheries stocksLobstersKenMcDonaldAvalonDarrellMullowney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers.We'll go back to Mr. Calkins, for five minutes or less, please.DarrellMullowneyBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Mr. Arnold, you've gone over your time.We'll now go back to the government side. Mr. Finnigan, you have five minutes or less, please.DarrellMullowneyPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Finnigan.We'll finish up with the NDP. We have Mr. Johns for three minutes or less, please.DavidWhorleyGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns.Mr. Calkins.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you for that.That concludes this portion of our committee meeting. We'll say thank you, again, to our witnesses for the time and knowledge they gave to the committee on this particular study.We'll suspend now for two minutes so that we can change out and get ready to go with version two, the west coast fisheries.[Proceedings continue in camera]BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all, especially for the work your organizations do to help integrate newcomers and address some of their most pressing concerns.On this side of the room, we've been under the impression from the data that we've increased the amount of money for settlement services agencies by 32% over the last four years, yet your organization is talking about flat funding and increased demands. Maybe you can elaborate a little on where you think this money is going and why you weren't seeing the 32% in your programs.Settlement of immigrantsStatisticsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGarryGreen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]Ms. Windsor.Settlement of immigrantsGarryGreenJenniferReddy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]Sure. On that note, you still provide the services to whom you are calling ineligibles. Are they receiving a lesser or a worse service?Settlement of immigrantsJenniferReddyHeatherHart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]For the final question, we have been trying to be as respectful as we can of newcomers and of the language used in committee about their status. Maybe, Mr. Green, you can confirm to us that the adjective “illegal” is not applied to the children who are in the school system in Toronto. The activity of their having crossed the border with their parents might have been illegal, but the children aren't being referred to as illegals within the context of the Toronto school board, I hope.Settlement of immigrantsHeatherHartGarryGreen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]If you were going to recommend additional services that you feel your cohort needs to be funded but that aren't currently funded, what would be the top two or three services these students need, which the general school population doesn't, that are dictated by their immigration status, both for eligibles and ineligibles? It would be nice to know whether these services need to be expanded in the school setting.Settlement of immigrantsGarryGreenGarryGreen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1650)[English]Everyone's nodding, and I've seen your little graphic with the puzzle pieces that show that navigation is a real issue.Does the federal government have a role to play in helping coordinate this or is this something you look principally to the province to do?Settlement of immigrantsGarryGreenHeatherHart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1650)[English]Ms. Germanakos.Settlement of immigrantsGarryGreenToulaGermanakos//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Dr. Hemming, can you help us contextualize the legal status of the Ngarrindjeri people in Australia, just so we can understand, in a Canadian context, what some differences might be? How does someone become a member? Do they have any special legal rights? I know you've talked about some, in terms of connection with land, and as protectors of the land and rivers, property rights and whatnot.Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelStatus IndiansJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—LakeshoreSteveHemming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1725)[English] Sure.In terms of governance, are there multiple councils that help reflect the views of the group? How do they do self-governance?Aboriginal peoplesAboriginal self-governmentBest practicesEnergy and fuelSteveHemmingSteveHemming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1725)[English]I am trying to lead a thread to get Ms. Leach back in.In terms of economic development, do the the Ngarrindjeri own businesses and corporations? Do those corporations pay tax like regular Australian corporations do, or do they have a separate tax regime?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEconomic developmentEnergy and fuelSteveHemmingSteveHemming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1725)[English]Thank you very much. This is great.I want to shift a little bit now.Maybe, Ms. Leach, you could answer this first question.In the previous panel, we heard from Chief Laboucan-Avirom that capital and ownership of resources, and companies that can develop the resources, are important for the economic development of first nations.How are you recommending...or maybe, as you've looked around the world and through the OECD, how are indigenous groups accessing the capital they need to participate in the ownership structures for the development of their own resources?Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEconomic developmentEnergy and fuelSteveHemmingDawnMadahbee Leach//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1730)[English]Ms. Leach, excuse me for my ignorance on this. Is there any special tax status for those indigenous-owned banks or do they operate the same as chartered banks in Canada?Aboriginal peoplesBanks and bankingBest practicesEnergy and fuelDawnMadahbee LeachDawnMadahbee Leach//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1730)[English]Wonderful.I have a final question for both of you: When it comes to the other aspect of resource development, environmental management of the resource, what are some of the best practices you've seen in your research on co-management or joint management of resources? After Ms. Leach has answered, maybe you, Dr. Hemming, can let us know to what extent the Ngarrindjeri jointly manage any of the fishing resources you've spoken about.Ms. Leach.Aboriginal peoplesBest practicesEnergy and fuelFisheries and fishersDawnMadahbee LeachDawnMadahbee Leach//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1730)[English]Thanks, Ms. Leach.I'll give Dr. Hemming the last word on joint management of resources in Australia.DawnMadahbee LeachSteveHemming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1730)[English]As always, Mr. Chair, we don't have enough time to get to interesting points such as capacity development, but maybe we can in the next meeting.SteveHemmingJamesMaloneyEtobicoke—Lakeshore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1530)[English] Good afternoon, everyone.Welcome to your fisheries and oceans committee meeting this afternoon, pursuant to the standing order of reference of Friday, February 1, 2019, Bill S-203, an act to amend the Criminal Code and other acts, in regard to ending the captivity of whales and dolphins.We have some witnesses here today, in case there are any questions as we go through.From DFO, we have Mr. Burns, who is the director general of fisheries resource management. We also have, from the Department of the Environment, Ms. Caceres, who is the manager of international biodiversity for the Canadian wildlife service. From the Department of Justice, we have Ms. Klineberg, who is senior counsel with the criminal law policy section. Before I start, I have a short statement to read, based on some things that happened over the past few days. I want to let all members around this table know that I was advised, as chair, that there was an article published yesterday morning about this bill. Within this article there were details that address the amendments package that was distributed to members of this committee in confidence. I would just remind all members that any confidential documents that are circulated and the information that is within them are to remain confidential until they are moved or made public by this committee. They are not to be seen by any journalist, member of the public or other parliamentarian who is not entitled to have access to them. I want this simply to serve as a reminder to all members of this committee.We'll start clause-by-clause consideration.Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, the short title, is postponed.(On clause 2)The Chair: On amendment CPC-0.1, Mr. Doherty.CetaceansClause-by-clause studyPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Is there any debate?ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English] Next is amendment CPC-1. Mr. Doherty.JoanneKlinebergToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Does anybody have any questions on the proposed amendment?Mr. Fraser.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Mr. Nicholson.ColinFraserWest NovaRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Ms. Klineberg.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsJoanneKlineberg//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Mr. Doherty.JoanneKlinebergToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Is there any further discussion?ColinFraserWest NovaRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English] Now on CPC-2, Mr. Doherty.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English] We will move to CPC-3.Mr. Doherty.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English] We now move on to CPC-3.1.Mr. Doherty.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Nicholson.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Calkins.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Hearing no further discussion, I will call the vote on the proposed amendment.(Amendment negatived) The Chair: Shall clause 2 carry?Mr. Fraser.CetaceansClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeePrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]On clause 3, we have amendment LIB-1.Mr. Finnigan.ColinFraserWest NovaPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English] On new clause 3.1, amendment LIB-2, Mr. Finnigan.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Okay.On new clause 3.2, amendment LIB-3, Mr. Finnigan.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]On clause 4, we have amendment CPC-3.2.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Would you like to read it out?RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]We've heard it in French, very fluently. Is there any discussion?Mr. Fraser.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsColinFraserWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Mr. Nicholson.ColinFraserWest NovaRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English] Now we will go to CPC-3.3.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Which one are you moving? We're doing CPC-3.3.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]We dealt with CPC-3.2, which was defeated, so therefore we move to CPC-3.3. If it had been approved, we wouldn't bring forward CPC-3.3. I think you jumped ahead a little bit.CetaceansClause-by-clause studyPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English] We are now on clause 5, CPC-4.Mr. Doherty.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English] On proposed new clause 7, amendment LIB-4, Mr. Finnigan.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]On amendment CPC-5, Mr. Doherty.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Mr. Nicholson.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Okay. We have heard the amendment and the subamendment. The difference is that the subamendment gives a definite date of January 1, 2021.(Subamendment negatived) (Amendment negatived) The Chair: Shall the short title carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the title carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Shall the bill carry?Some hon. members: Agreed.An hon. member: On division. The Chair: Shall the chair report the bill to the House?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: It's done. Thank you. Hearing no further business—CetaceansClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeePrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsRobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Yes. The meeting is adjourned. RobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1340)[English]Thank you, Chair.My questions will be for one individual and then the other, but if you want to weigh in, please just raise your hand, if you want to answer the same question.Ms. Hossain, I want to go to your testimony first. You talked about how difficult it can be for women seeking help in urban areas. What are the main places within an urban area in which women feel comfortable enough to approach certain community groups to seek help?Cities and townsCivil and human rightsHuman rights organizationsWomenAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanSaraHossain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]If I may very quickly, there are NGOs and there is the government. Is there one of those that people would go to before the other? I'm trying to pinpoint here where the places of help are.Civil and human rightsHuman rights organizationsWomenSaraHossainSaraHossain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]Has technology improved the ability to communicate with those in need?Civil and human rightsParalegalsWireless communicationWomenSaraHossainSaraHossain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]Ms. Hossain, let me ask the same question, except this time in the context of rural areas outside of the cities.Civil and human rightsHuman rights organizationsRural communitiesWomenSaraHossainSaraHossain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]How can a country such as Canada help the successful stories that come from either urban or rural areas about connecting and allowing people to come to you with a great deal of comfort?Civil and human rightsForeign policyWomenSaraHossainSaraHossain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English] Thank you very much.Ms. Nasir, my questions for you.... Well, there are many, and feel free to weigh in on what was just mentioned, if you wish, but I'm interested in your views also as a parliamentarian for, was it 14 years, 15 years?Civil and human rightsWomenSaraHossainAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]My apologies. I'm closing in on 16 years myself. I want to ask you about the system. Has your system changed on a national level, or a regional level, for that matter, such that there are more minorities represented in your Parliament? Were there functional changes in your governance?Civil and human rightsGovernment and public administrationMinoritiesPakistanWomenAsiyaNasirAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1345)[English]Is there a seat that's for you, then? How does that work?Civil and human rightsGovernment and public administrationMinoritiesPakistanWomenAsiyaNasirAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1350)[English]Sure, but you still get the amount of representation within the house based on just the minority, not on geography.Civil and human rightsGovernment and public administrationMinoritiesPakistanWomenAsiyaNasirAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1350)[English]To you is that a promising sign of things changing?Civil and human rightsGovernment and public administrationMinoritiesPakistanWomenAsiyaNasirAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1350)[English]Do you think that this type of change represents change to all society as well? If I'm a person who is in a terrible situation no matter where it is in Pakistan, would I feel free to approach the government if I had a particular problem, such as, let's say, a problem of forced marriage?Civil and human rightsGovernment and public administrationMinoritiesPakistanWomenAsiyaNasirAsiyaNasir//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1250)[English]I'm not sure if we're embarking on a venture into palliative care, because for this particular tree, I don't have a lot of faith in its ability to live beyond what we already see.You just said something about an aerial view of the tree. Can you explain how that works? Does that give you substantial knowledge, a good dataset, as to how long this tree will survive?ElmParliament HillLarryBagnellHon.YukonLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]So that's how you monitor the cavity, from above?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]I had this vision of a drone. I apologize.LisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]Yes. I was looking for something far more grandiose.I understand there are limitations to being on the ground. I should know: I'm five foot four. When you look at the tree, what is the most valuable dataset you can collect? Whether it's aerial or it's actually measuring from the outside of the tree, what is it?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]What is the most specific one you look at? If you were to walk up and say you have one measurement to make on this tree, what's it going to be, to decide whether it's in good health or not?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]It's quite all right. I have to look at policy all day. I always get it mixed up. I know how you feel.ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]You said earlier that what you have seen thus far leads you to believe the conclusion about the lifespan of the tree. Mr. Garrison spoke of waiting to see what we have this coming spring, although you are satisfied with what you have seen so far. But that's not in isolation, is it? How far back are you going?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]Those are your personal observations in addition to what has been measured since 1995?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]So since 1995, what would that be?ElmParliament HillLisaMacDonaldLisaMacDonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1250)[English]Okay. Thank you.Mr. Wright, this is obviously a more general question beyond just the one tree. Let's look at the forest separate from the tree. When it comes to green space, how is the green space situation around Centre Block going to look 10 years from now as opposed to what it looked like last year when we closed down or this year when we close down?ElmGreenspacesParliament HillLisaMacDonaldRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English]Can I get you to back up for a second? What is a campus approach?ElmGreenspacesParliament HillRobertWrightRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English] There are a couple of things there. More green space also provides less parking area on the surface. I don't want to say there's less parking. Are you looking at some underground parking? Has that been decided yet?ElmParking lotsParliament HillRobertWrightRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English]If you have the right amount of soil above it, as you mentioned earlier, then that underground parking space can be as big as we wish, or that doesn't go out beyond campus.ElmParking lotsParliament HillRobertWrightRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English]Right, and the soil above the parking would be thick enough to support a tree of that size.ElmParking lotsParliament HillRobertWrightRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English]Thank you. I have one more quick question.The idea of the underground parking can't be cheap. Has it been incorporated in the budgeting?ElmParking lotsParliament HillRobertWrightRobertWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1255)[English]Thank you.RobertWrightLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1100)[English]Madam Chair, if I could interject for a second, I'd like to propose a motion for the committee to consider. It reads as follows:That in light of the committee not travelling to Atlantic Canada and Quebec, the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure, and Communities conduct no less than 4 meetings to continue their study on a Trade and Transportation Strategy with witnesses from both Atlantic Canada and Quebec and that the Chair be empowered to coordinate the necessary witnesses and schedule.Committee businessJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1135)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Welcome to our witnesses today.A few weeks ago I watched I think it was a CTV W5 investigation on school bus safety, as Mr. Iacono just referenced, not only in Canada but in the U.S. and other jurisdictions, where they talked about seat belt use in school buses in particular. Actually, it was disturbing, when you think about kids riding on school buses, particularly buses that have to travel on high-speed highways during the school day. The focus of that investigation was on seat belts and three-point seat belts, as they've adopted in California and other jurisdictions, and so on.This is for the Transport Canada representatives. Why haven't we reached the point where, as some people suggest, we should consider implementing laws around seat belts? Are there studies and are there past incidents to suggest one way or the other that seat belts would or would not be beneficial on school buses? Do you have studies to support that kind of opinion or contention?BusesSeat beltsTransportation safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekKathleenFox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English] Thank you, Madam Fox, and in fact, the safety board.Given the different safety requirements for vehicles of different types and weight classes, as we've referenced already, to what extent, if any, do different types of buses, such as coaches, transit buses or school buses, represent unique safety issues that should be addressed individually rather than through more general regulations?BusesTransportation safetyKathleenFoxKathleenFox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English]Thank you for that.KathleenFoxJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English]Yes, I have a quick question for Madam Superintendent on school bus issues around seat belts. Obviously, you have talked about investigations around different incidents and so on. From a safety perspective, do you think having seat belts would add any value to school buses versus not having seat belts? Do you have any opinions on that?BusesSeat beltsTransportation safetyJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekJamieSolesme//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1140)[English]Okay. Thank you.JamieSolesmeJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1600)[English] Good afternoon, everyone. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the impact of the rapid increase in striped bass in the Miramichi River and the Gulf of St. Lawrence.For the first part of our meeting this afternoon, we have from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Mr. Serge Doucet, the regional director general for the gulf region, and Mr. Doug Bliss, regional director of science for the gulf region.We welcome both of you to our study this afternoon. When you're ready, you can make your presentation.Gulf of St. LawrenceMiramichi RiverStriped bassSergeDoucet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, gentlemen, for that presentation. Before we go to the questioning, I would like to recognize René Arseneault, MP for Madawaska—Restigouche, on the government side. As well, welcome back to Mr. Sopuck, from the riding of Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa.Welcome, gentlemen.DougBlissRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]I know we were a little bit late starting due to a vote. Would it be okay if we agreed to do one round of seven minutes for this particular session? It will go a little past 3:30, but not much. It will give each party a chance to get at least a few questions in.Mr. Finnigan, for seven minutes or fewer, please.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.From the Conservative side we have Mr. Sopuck.You have seven minutes or less, please.SergeDoucetRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.Now on to the NDP. Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. Thank you to our guests today for their patience in getting through the first session. I would like to thank Mr. Bliss for mentioning prospecting in the Labrador region. Labrador is no stranger to prospecting, by any means. Again, thank you for your appearance here before committee today.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniSergeDoucet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]We'll suspend for a moment just to change for the next group.(1635)(1640)The Chair: We'll get started again.Here with us for the next hour we have a number of witnesses. From the Miramichi Salmon Association Inc., we have Mr. Mark Hambrook, president. From the Miramichi Watershed Management Committee Inc., we have Deborah Norton, president. From the North Shore Micmac District Council, we have chief executive officer Chief George Ginnish. From the Atlantic Salmon Federation, we have Mr. Bill Taylor, president and chief executive officer. As well, there was a last-minute addition. There are two witnesses from the New Brunswick Salmon Council joining us by telephone, Mr. John Pugh and Mr. John Bagnall.We'll go to Mr. Taylor, first, for seven minutes or less, please. SergeDoucetBillTaylor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Taylor.We'll now go to Chief Ginnish from the Eel Ground First Nation for seven minutes or less, please. BillTaylorGeorgeGinnish//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Chief Ginnish. You may have been all over the page, but your points were certainly heard loud and clear. I'll go now to Mr. Hambrook from the Miramichi Salmon Association, for seven minutes or less, please.GeorgeGinnishMarkHambrook//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hambrook.Now we'll go to Ms. Norton for seven minutes or less, please.MarkHambrookDeborahNorton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you. We saved a bit of time on that one.I'll go now to the New Brunswick Salmon Council. Mr. Pugh and Mr. Bagnall, can you hear us?DeborahNortonJohnPugh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Okay, you're up for seven minutes or less between you. JohnPughJohnPugh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you, gentlemen. That was a little less than seven minutes, as you said.We'll go now to the questioning round. I'll remind the questioners to please try to identify who the question is for in order to make it a little easier and save a bit of your questioning time, especially for the two gentlemen who are here by phone.Now, on the government side, we have Mr. Finnigan, for seven minutes or less, please.JohnBagnallPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Finnigan. Your seven minutes are up.Now we move to the Conservative side.Mr. Arnold, you have seven minutes or less, please.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Sopuck.Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less, please.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]You have a little less.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. I know we've gone to the point that we had allocated time-wise for this, but I think in our next hour we to deal with drafting instructions. We probably have time to do a five-minute round, if everyone is in agreement, for questions. I would remind people that there are a couple of guests on the telephone who a couple of times have tried to get in, but the questioner didn't really hear or recognize them, so keep that in mind.We'll go to the government side now for five minutes or less. Mr. Hardie.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Somebody said you did. Oh, Mr. Arseneault. When you're ready, please, you have five minutes or less.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsRenéArseneaultMadawaska—Restigouche//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arseneault. Your five minutes has expired.Now to the Conservative side, Mr. Sopuck, for five minutes or less, please.RenéArseneaultMadawaska—RestigoucheRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]We'll now go to the NDP and Mr. Johns, for five minutes or fewer, please.RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]Thank you, Gord.MarkHambrookJohnBagnall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]If you could, please do that.We're out of time right now. Before we suspend to go in camera to deal with some drafting instructions, I would again like to thank our witnesses, John Pugh and John Bagnall, by telephone, and Mr. Taylor, Mr. Hambrook, Ms. Norton and Chief Ginnish. Thank you for appearing as witnesses today and for sharing your knowledge with the committee on this important topic.We will suspend for a couple of minutes to get reorganized.[Proceedings continue in camera]GordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1635)[English] Welcome, everyone.Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the second vice-chair must be a member of an official party other than the official opposition.An hon. member: [Inaudible—Editor]The Chair: No, Mr. Doherty was going to try something, but it won't work unless Mel is going to cross the floor.I am now prepared to receive a motion for second vice-chair.Committee businessElection of the Chair and Vice-ChairsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]It has been moved by Mr. Arnold that Gord Johns be elected second vice-chair of the committee.Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?(Motion agreed to)Committee businessDecisions in committeeElection of the Chair and Vice-ChairsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Nobody else has stepped forward. They heard that Gord was going to run.I declare the motion carried and Gord Johns duly elected second vice-chair of the committee.Some hon. members: Hear, hear!The Chair: In the past, Gord, vice-chairs have taken the full committee out to dinner or something, so we'll allow you to pick the date. It's usually done within the first two or three weeks.Committee businessElection of the Chair and Vice-ChairsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]We'll tell you where to meet us.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Will the committee move a motion to adjourn?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: We're adjourned.Committee businessElection of the Chair and Vice-ChairsRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1110)[English] Mr. Stanton, all partisanship aside, I'm a fan. Thank you very much. I enjoyed your article when it first appeared in Canadian Parliamentary Review, I think it was. I've been following this issue and looking into it further in other jurisdictions, much like you have. During my time, I'm going to do two things: I'm going to ask you questions, but I'm also going to give myself the opportunity to vent my spleen on many of these issues. I say that because I am absolutely envious of many of the things I've heard in witness testimony about Westminster, the clerk there, and what I've read from Australia. I've seen how they have made strides well advanced of what they were back then, both in Australia and England, but also in New Zealand, and how they've managed to do that with a great deal of maturity. As a matter of fact, if I may be so bold, sometimes they debate the way their House operates in such a mature fashion that it makes us look like a stationary clown car where reasoned debate goes madly off in different directions. That is most disappointing, because we had an episode last year that was absolutely disgraceful, and I think we should all be blamed for that. I saw it 10 years ago. I saw it 10 months ago. I think ideas like yours get lost, because I don't know if we're mature enough to deal with them yet. That's my view. That's 15 years of my spleen vented. Some hon. members: Oh, oh!Mr. Scott Simms: There are two things about that. There is the Federation Chamber in Australia and then the Westminster Hall. One is a supplemental, if I may use that term, in the sense of there being over 600 members of Parliament. A lot of it deals with the backbench business of emergency debates, e-petitions and constituency statements. I'd love to get three minutes to talk about my constituency. I think we all should have that. The Australian model is more of a parallel chamber. That's the one that's adjacent. My opinion is that we would be better served with a parallel way of doing this. In other words, for the actual legislation that's in the House now, we should have the opportunity to go beyond the House and discuss it outside if we want to talk about a certain issue of the day. As a matter of fact, I do believe that we could deal with the issue of travel on Fridays, because it seems like everybody who is in government wants to get rid of Friday sittings. Everybody in the opposition wants to keep Fridays; it doesn't matter what party it is. That's been going on for 50-odd years. This could be a situation where Friday is set up for a parallel chamber, and you don't have to be there on a Friday; you want to be there on a Friday because it deals with a bill that is pertinent to the people you represent. Do you have a preference between the two?DebateParallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1120)[English] Yes, I think you're right. As I said earlier about the parallel function of it, I think that's the prime importance of a parallel chamber. I think you could cover off the other stuff and constituency statements as well. In the age of social media, we all want to get on camera so we can record it for our Facebook accounts or what have you. I don't mean that facetiously. It's what we do.Parallel debating ChamberParliamentary broadcastingSocial networking sitesBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1120)[English] I have so many constituents who say, “Gee, when do you get up in the House and say something?” I tell them that I just did it the day before. But nobody watches CPAC, and if they did, I'd be rather alarmed. The thing about what you're saying is that I fundamentally agree with the function of it, and it should be flexible in the case of this country, because all the other stuff does mean something to a backbench member of Parliament. In addition to the legislative function and the vetting, let's go back to the guillotining that you talked about—or as we call it, by a fancier name— Parallel debating ChamberParliamentary broadcastingBruceStantonSimcoe NorthLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1120)[English]Speaking of guillotining, government programming started back in the late 1990s. It allows people to see what is available for debate, because you can't do it forever, right? Despite the consternation over time allocation, that we don't like it, we've been using it. And I say “we” meaning around the board. Let's face it, you know, at some point you're going to say, “Why are you cutting this off? Oh, and by the way, how come you haven't passed any legislation yet?”So how does it help in that situation for this chamber to serve a role?Parallel debating ChamberParliamentary broadcastingLarryBagnellHon.YukonBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1120)[English]Thank you.BruceStantonSimcoe NorthLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1200)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity.Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker. It's a great report.In your presentation, you mentioned one point, which is that it's important to know what gap we're trying to address by having a second chamber.What is your view on the gap that needs to be addressed by the second chamber, or is there one?Parallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1200)[English]Do you think this could happen simply by shortening the amount of time that each individual would have to participate in regular debates? Many chambers in the world limit the amount of time you speak on an issue to three minutes per reading. It seems that 10 minutes per reading has a lot of repetition.Parallel debating ChamberTime limits on speechesBruceStantonSimcoe NorthBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1625)[English]Thank you very much.Maybe I can continue, Dr. Kochhar, on that line. The levels plan each year for the next three years anticipates a certain amount of family reunification. One would expect that it would be 20,000 the following year, 20,000 in 2020, 20,000 in 2021. Are there any additional costs or expenses expected under the estimates that we should expect with a 2019 round or a 2020 round, or is it likely going to be operated in the same fashion?Family reunificationStatisticsSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019RobertOliphantDon Valley WestHarpreetKochhar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1625)[English]I'm not as interested now in the financial answer, because this is more interesting.Say, for instance, from duplicates that are still being reviewed, you find that only 18,000 applications are in the pipe. When you run the 2019 round and open it up, will the computer software program allow us to open it up for those additional 2,000 people who were missed in the 2019 levels plan—plus the extra 1,000 people who will be in the 2019 levels plan—to get you to 23,000 openings in the next round?StatisticsSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019HarpreetKochharHarpreetKochhar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1630)[English]The levels plan target gives you a sweet spot at 20,000, but there was a sort of low- and high-end target. How will that, then, affect the next round of applications? Maybe you could just confirm that we expect this year's round of applications will happen in the same fashion.Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019HarpreetKochharHarpreetKochhar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1630)[English] Thank you.I'm back to you again, Ms. Morgan. With respect to the estimates process and the safe third country agreement, I'm assuming that if there's any renegotiation of some aspect of the safe third country agreement that's going to cause additional cost, that would be budgeted and brought back to committee at that time. For instance, if there's going to be a program of transporting people and housing them on their way to a regular point of entry from an irregular point of entry or handing them back, those costs and the budget associated with that type of program wouldn't appear anywhere in these estimates—it's hypothetical—but would be costed at some future date and come back to us in the estimates process in the next round.Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019HarpreetKochharMartaMorgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1630)[English]In the estimates, I expected to see some type of indication on a project basis about this new rural and northern immigration pilot and costs associated with that. Also, now there's been a renewal of the Atlantic immigration pilot for an additional two years. Maybe this is a question for Mr. Mills; it's on the financial side. I'm wondering if you could explain to us why there's no specific explanation of the additional costs associated with trying to administer this pilot because it's announced ostensibly in the context of supplementary estimates (B).Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019MartaMorganMartaMorgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1630)[English]Some other government departments, notably Transport, do project-based estimates on some of their programs so parliamentarians can have insight on a project-by-project basis. Is there any move within IRCC to do project-based estimates and appropriations so we can have more visibility into that, or are you not in the pipeline for that initiative?Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019MartaMorganMartaMorgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1635)[English]Thank you very much.MartaMorganRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1645)[English]We've just witnessed a horrific act of terror in Christchurch, and the member keeps using this extremely inflammatory language. He knows what he's doing, and he needs to use the right and proper terminology, until such time as someone is determined not to be an asylum seeker. That is not the right language to use. It's meant to inflame; it's meant to divide. Today of all days, he should not be doing it. Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019RobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1650)[English]Mr. Chair, on a point of order—Committee businessMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose HillMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Nose Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1655)[English]Mr. Chair, I think it's very clear that—Committee businessDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1755)[English] We've all been dancing around this whole notion of labour market impact assessments being needed for industries where it's already clearly known that there is high labour market demand. Generally there is high labour market demand across all sectors, and we would ultimately prefer that Canadians get the higher-paying jobs rather than the lower-paying jobs. I'm wondering what sorts of changes would need to be made to the rules to put more of the opportunity with employers to determine their own labour market needs and remove some of the bureaucratic and time-consuming hurdles that are preventing it. What legislative changes would we need to make to fast-track workers into the country in lower-skilled job areas?Immigration and immigrantsLabour marketMarwanTabbaraKitchener South—HespelerPhilippeMassé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1755)[English]It's our understanding from previous testimony that the number of jobs created per immigrant is net positive, so allowing immigrants to come in and take jobs creates more jobs. If you bring in 10, you create an extra one for a Canadian anyway. I fail to see the logic of why we still adhere to this non-evidence-based requirement for a labour market impact assessment at all.Immigration and immigrantsLabour marketPhilippeMasséRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)): (1535)[English]Good afternoon, everyone. Pursuant to the order of reference of Friday, February 1, 2019, Bill S-203, an act to amend the Criminal Code and other acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins), I'd like to welcome everybody here this afternoon, especially our guests: the Honourable Murray Sinclair, senator; Elizabeth May from Saanich—Gulf Islands; and, by video conference, Dr. Ingrid Visser, founder and principal scientist, Orca Research Trust.We'll start off with our presentations very shortly. I'd like to recognize Mr. Gord Johns as a new member of the committee. I thank Mr. Donnelly for his time and experience that he's shared with us at this committee.Mr. Donnelly.CetaceansPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsFinDonnellyPort Moody—Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Donnelly.We'll start off now with our presentations. I'll start with Ms. May. I know you're sharing your time with Dr. Visser.FinDonnellyPort Moody—CoquitlamBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Yes. The rules are:That the Chair be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and to have that evidence published when a quorum is not present, provided that at least three (3) members are present, including one (1) member of the opposition and one (1) member of the government.Private Members' BillsBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you for pointing that out.Ms. May, when you're ready, between the two of you, you have seven minutes or less, please.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Dr. Visser.We'll now go to witnesses in person. The Honourable Murray Sinclair, you have the floor for seven minutes or less, please. IngridVisserMurraySinclairHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Sinclair.We will now go to a round of questioning, first from the government side with Mr. Morrissey, for seven minutes or less, please.MurraySinclairHon.RobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. Your seven minutes is up, I'm sorry.Now we go to the Conservative side. Mr. Calkins, go ahead for seven minutes or less, please.MurraySinclairHon.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you—BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeMurraySinclairHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Please be quick, because time is up.MurraySinclairHon.IngridVisser//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Dr. Visser.We've gone way over time, and hopefully you'll get to finish your statement through more questioning.IngridVisserIngridVisser//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Now we'll go to the NDP for seven minutes or less.Mr. Johns.IngridVisserGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Mr. Johns, your seven minutes is more than up. Perhaps you can get in another couple as we go forward.Now we go back to the government side, and Mr. Hardie, for seven minutes or less, please. GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Now we go to the Conservative side, to Mr. Doherty—for five minutes or less, please.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Mr. Doherty, your time is up. That concludes our first hour with witnesses. I would like to thank Dr. Visser for appearing by video conference from New Zealand. I know other people mentioned it and offered our support and condolences with regard to the activities that took place. On behalf of everybody here on the committee and on behalf of Canadians, please accept our sincere condolences and our support as you deal with the recent activities.Mr. Sinclair, thank you for appearing before committee. We'll just suspend for a couple of minutes to change out our witnesses and get going on our next hour.ToddDohertyCariboo—Prince GeorgeMurraySinclairHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes.(1625)(1630)MurraySinclairHon.KenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Okay, we'll start again. I'll welcome our guests. From the Department of Justice, we have Joanne Klineberg, senior counsel, criminal law policy section. From the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, back with us again, we have Adam Burns, director general, fisheries resource management. From the Department of the Environment, we have Carolina Caceres, manager, international biodiversity, Canadian wildlife service. Welcome to all three of you. We'll start off with your opening statements of seven minutes or less.Ms. Klineberg, would you like to go first?KenMcDonaldAvalonAdamBurns//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you.There's a bit of time to spare, which is always good.We'll now go to the government side with Mr. Rogers for seven minutes or less, please.AdamBurnsChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Burns, for that information and clarification of some of the key points here.I have a few questions. The main concern raised about captivity of cetaceans relates to their well-being. Are there measures other than legislated ban on captivity of cetaceans that could be implemented to ensure the well-being of captive cetaceans?Animal rights and welfareCetaceansPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsKenMcDonaldAvalonAdamBurns//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1640)[English]I'm curious if legislation is always necessary to bring about the change we want.Vancouver Aquarium is appearing later today, and I know they have concerns regarding the Criminal Code aspects of the bill making it more difficult to do their research. Do you have any comments on how they could potentially be affected by this bill?CetaceansPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Scientific research and scientistsSenate billsJoanneKlinebergJoanneKlineberg//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1640)[English]Mr. Burns, you spoke about amendments in Bill C-68 and said that they could achieve similar objectives to Bill S-203. Can you expand on this and compare the changes in the Fisheries Act through Bill C-68 with the changes being proposed here through Bill S-203?Animal rights and welfareC-68, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequenceCetaceansPrivate Members' BillsS-203, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and other Acts (ending the captivity of whales and dolphins)Senate billsJoanneKlinebergAdamBurns//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1645)[English]Thank you for that, because you just answered the second question I had for you on that as well.AdamBurnsKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you.Now we'll go to the Conservative side. Mr. Doherty, you have seven minutes or less please.ChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityToddDohertyCariboo—Prince George//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Now we'll go to the NDP.Mr. Johns, you have seven minutes or less.JoanneKlinebergGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Before I go to the government side I'd like to recognize the presence of the Honourable Rob Nicholson from the beautiful riding of Niagara Falls. Welcome to the committee, sir.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Now to the government side, to Mr. Finnigan, for seven minutes or less, please. RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thanks, Mr. Finnigan, that's perfect timing. Now to the Conservative side, we have Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.JoanneKlinebergMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Your time has expired.Now, we're back to the government side for five minutes or less.Go ahead, Mr. Morrissey.MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you Mr. Morrissey.We have a little over two minutes left. We'll go to the Conservative side. Mr. Calkins, you have three minutes.RobertMorrisseyEgmontBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calkins.Our time is now up for this particular portion of today's committee meeting. Before I suspend, I would like to apologize and recognize at the same time the presence of the Hon. Larry Bagnell, MP for Yukon. I missed doing that earlier. I do apologize for that.We will suspend now for a couple of minutes just to change out for the next hour of witnesses.Thank you to our witnesses.(1720)(1725)BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English] Welcome, everybody, to our final hour on the study today on this particular motion.I welcome all our guests.By video conference, we have Dr. Hal Whitehead, professor, Biology Department, Dalhousie University.As well by video conference, we have Dr. Laura Graham, director, WRG Conservation Foundation.Here in person, from Ocean Wise, we have Clinton Wright, executive vice-president and chief operating officer, aquariums; and Dr. Martin Haulena, chief veterinarian. Here from Marineland of Canada Inc., we have Mr. Andrew Burns, legal counsel.We're going to start off with our seven-minute presentations by video conference.We'll go to Dr. Whitehead first, for seven minutes or less. Go ahead, please.KenMcDonaldAvalonHalWhitehead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]Thank you, Dr. Whitehead.We will now go to Dr. Laura Graham, for seven minutes or less, please.HalWhiteheadLauraGraham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]Thank you, Dr. Graham. We'll now go to Ocean Wise and Mr. Wright.LauraGrahamClintonWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1745)[English]Thank you, Mr. Wright.We'll now go to Mr. Burns from Marineland of Canada Inc.You have seven minutes or less, please.ClintonWrightAndrewBurns//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Mr. Burns, we've gone way over time.AndrewBurnsAndrewBurns//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]I'm going to have to cut you off there, unfortunately.Hopefully, anything you haven't said will come out in the line of questioning; or, if you submit your written submission to the committee, we will certainly get it.I want to go back and correct something as well. Through error, when I went to Mr. Wright for Ocean Wise, there was no indication of sharing time, but there was some time left. I understand Dr. Haulena is going to use that time. There are two minutes and 18 seconds left on that time, when you're ready, sir.AndrewBurnsMartinHaulena//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Excuse me. Dr. Haulena, I have to interrupt for a second. Lights are blinking, which means the bells are going for a vote. For us to continue beyond this point, I have to ask for the unanimous consent of the committee to continue on even till 6:15 p.m. That will allow everybody to get back in time.Is everybody agreed?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay. You may continue.MartinHaulenaMartinHaulena//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1800)[English]Thank you for that, and thank you to all our presenters. We have approximately 14 minutes left before 6:15 p.m. Do we want to go with three fives? If we go with sevens, it's not going to—MartinHaulenaRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1800)[English]Okay.Is everybody in agreement with that?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay.Mr. Hardie, for the Liberal side, you have five minutes or less, and I'll be very strict.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1805)[English]Thank you for that. Now to the Conservative side, we have Mr. Nicholson, for five minutes or less. KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1810)[English]Your time is up.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsRobNicholsonHon.Niagara Falls//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1810)[English]Mr. Johns is next, for five minutes or less, please.RobNicholsonHon.Niagara FallsGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1815)[English]Mr. Johns, your time is up. I'm sorry.That concludes this portion.I apologize to the witnesses for having to cut it short. There's a vote in about 12 or 13 minutes.I don't know if it's the wish of the committee to reconvene after the vote for more questioning.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88283KenMcDonaldKen-McDonaldAvalonLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/McDonaldKen_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1815)[English]Thank you. Perfect.The meeting is adjourned.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen (St. John's East, Lib.): (1630)[English]I provide my consent to go ahead.Foreign workersImmigration and immigrantsLarryMaguireBrandon—SourisRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88296NickWhalenNick-WhalenSt. John's EastLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/WhalenNick_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Nick Whalen: (1735)[English]Actually, I think Mr. Bérubé answered the question. I just want him to confirm that “Canada 2040: No Immigration Versus More Immigration” is the name of the study.Immigration and immigrantsLabour marketRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGillesBérubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers (Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, Lib.): (1150)[English]Mr. Keenan, I'm happy to see that our government's investing in rural and remote airports across the country, and particularly, of course, in Wabush, Newfoundland and Labrador. Marine Atlantic provides critical service to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. They're requesting around $38 million in these interim estimates, and we know that one of the areas of focus for Marine Atlantic is fleet renewal. Does Marine Atlantic have a fleet renewal program, and if so, what is the schedule for that renewal program?Department of TransportMarine Atlantic Inc.Maritime transportationSupplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Judy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black CreekMichaelKeenan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/98744ChurenceRogersChurence-RogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/RogersChurence_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Churence Rogers: (1155)[English]I'll be anxiously awaiting that update.MichaelKeenanJudy A.SgroHon.Humber River—Black Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.): (1105)[English]Yes, and I have a very short period of time to do it, Mr. Natzler.My name is Scott Simms. I'm from Newfoundland and Labrador. Thank you so much for being here. I have a couple of specific questions, but before I get into the specifics, I want to ask you about participation rates in the parallel chamber. I've read quite a bit about Australia and the experience in Westminster. Would you say that since its inception, participation rates have been better than expected, lower than expected, or as expected?Parallel debating ChamberUnited KingdomLarryBagnellHon.YukonDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]I understand.DavidNatzlerDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1110)[English]Yes, we do. It's my cabin in the woods.I want to ask you about something brought in that's not part of the Canadian Standing Orders, but it is part of the British. I want to see how it fits with the second chamber, and that is government programming. I believe it was in the 1990s when you programmed the bills. We don't have programming per se. You call it guillotining, I believe, when it comes to a certain debate; we call it time allocation.When it comes to programming of the bill, when you proceed in the main chamber, will that go over into the second chamber, the parallel chamber, and be part of the debate on the legislation?BillsParallel debating ChamberUnited KingdomDavidNatzlerDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Is the parallel chamber used for a lot of the subjects that you just brought up? If I were to say that I want to have a take-note debate on my particular opinion on the backstop for the Brexit situation, would that be done in a parallel chamber? Can I do that, or is it frowned upon?Parallel debating ChamberUnited KingdomDavidNatzlerDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]I hope it arrives before you retire.DavidNatzlerDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]I said that I hope it arrives before you retire.Parallel debating ChamberUnited KingdomDavidNatzlerDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1115)[English]Thank you, sir.DavidNatzlerLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1140)[English]Thank you, Chair.Very quickly, I understand that in 2009 or 2010, or shortly thereafter, you made a huge change in Westminster, whereby your select committee chairs are chosen by all members of the House. How is that going?Election of the SpeakerParallel debating ChamberUnited KingdomLarryBagnellHon.YukonDavidNatzler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1145)[English]Yes, it's extremely helpful.LarryBagnellHon.YukonScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Kingston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Indigenous Services): (0845)[English]Madam Chair, thank you. I am pleased to be here today as you acknowledge the traditional territory of the Algonquin people and to speak with members of this committee in my new capacity as Minister of Indigenous Services.Joining me is Jean-François Tremblay, Deputy Minister of Indigenous Services Canada, and Paul Thoppil, who is our Chief Finances, Results and Delivery Officer.Fundamental to our work as a government is our relationship with indigenous people. I recognize the important work this committee is doing to further their priorities across Canada. In particular, I want to thank you for your recent report on long-term care on reserve, and I look forward to responding to your findings.[Translation]As Minister of Indigenous Services, my job is to advance work that closes socioeconomic gaps and improves the quality of services for indigenous peoples, in partnership with them, and in a way that promotes self-determination.[English]My predecessor, who is now President of the Treasury Board and Minister of Digital Government, identified five interconnected priority areas where our joint work is needed. They are the following: keeping children and families together, quality education, improving health outcomes, reliable infrastructure and economic prosperity. At the centre of each of these priorities are real people: individuals, people, communities.Much progress has been made in these areas and the work is, of course, ongoing. To that end, Indigenous Services Canada requires immediate funds to continue delivering on our mandate.[Translation]That is what the supplementary estimates (B) and the interim estimates are about. Today, I will briefly outline my department's supplementary estimates (B) for 2018-2019 and the interim estimates for 2019-2020 to address the funding requirements of the first quarter of the coming fiscal year. Then, we will be happy to take your questions.The supplementary estimates (B) for Indigenous Services Canada reflect a net increase of $273.6 million. This brings the total appropriations for 2018-2019 to $11.7 billion.[English]The largest item requested by these estimates is $99.8 million for the emergency management assistance program. This is a critical appropriation in the supplementary estimates. In the past year alone, Canada has seen its share of floods, wildfires and severe storms, which have had grave impacts on a number of first nations. In fact, they have displaced more than 10,000 on-reserve residents in Canada.Thanks to budget 2018 funding, we have been able to better respond, and reimburse communities faster for costs incurred due to emergency incidents. Indeed, this fiscal year, over 99% of evacuated people have been able to go back to their communities. We are working hard to get the others home as soon as we can.Our government has also made historic investments to accelerate reforms to first nations child and family services. Budget 2016 provided $635 million over five years as a first step, and budget 2018 committed a further $1.4 billion in new funding over six years.It is essential we put the safety and security of indigenous children at the forefront of what we do. There is a pressing need within indigenous communities to raise young people in their culture, in their language and in their communities with their families.As such, the second item in these estimates is part of these investments to address funding gaps and support efforts to keep children and families together where it is in the best interests of the child. These funds are already at work, Madam Chair.As you are aware, we put an item on notice this week. I look forward to introducing it in the House shortly. I am limited in what I can say about it until it is formally introduced in the House. What I can say is I look forward to talking with you and listening to each one of you in the very near future.(0850) The next item I wish to bring to the committee's attention is $64.4 million towards advancing a new fiscal relationship with first nations. This funding will support communities in developing governance and community-led planning pilot projects. It will also ensure that first nations are no longer required to pay for third party management. A key element of this new fiscal relationship is a 10-year grant starting on April 1, 2019, for eligible first nations to deliver core services. Interest in this grant has been very high. We are working now with eligible first nations to finalize agreements for the April 1 entry into the grant. The last item I will touch on in the supplementary estimates (B) is the $37.5 million in funding for first nations elementary and secondary education programs. A new codeveloped funding approach for first nations kindergarten to grade 12 education takes effect April 1, 2019. This formula-based approach supports first nations' control of first nations education, and helps to ensure predictable funding that is more directly comparable to what students at provincial schools receive. More concretely, this funding would mean real change for first nations kids. For example, thanks to budget 2016 funding for education programming, the Mohawk Council of Akwesasne is taking Mohawk immersion learning to the next level. It implemented a new math program in Mohawk, which is aligned with the Ontario math curriculum. This means that children can now learn math in Mohawk in their immersion classrooms.We will start to see more and more successes like this replicated throughout Canada by way of regional education agreements.I will now turn to the interim estimates and will highlight some of those items. [Translation]The department's interim estimates will be approximately $7 billion. This funding would ensure that Indigenous Services Canada is able to carry out its activities in the first three months of the fiscal year, until the full main estimates are approved in June. Among other things, a timely appropriation of these funds would ensure that First Nations are able to take full advantage of the start of the construction season.[English]We know that healthy and safe homes are integral to creating healthy and safe communities. We also know, however, that indigenous people are more likely to experience poor housing conditions than the general population. According to Statistics Canada's 2016 census, 18.3% of indigenous people live in crowded dwellings.With that in mind, we are making progress with the Assembly of First Nations on the codevelopment of a first nations housing and related infrastructure strategy. This will contribute to more sustainable and healthy first nations communities. With the AFN, we are also codeveloping a new operations and maintenance policy framework that will provide greater flexibility to first nations to manage their assets on reserve. It is also why, among other things, the Government of Canada is working in partnership to address the serious housing needs of Cat Lake First Nation through immediate action and long-term planning.We know that decades of neglect are challenging to reverse, but we will be working in partnership to achieve results for the people of Cat Lake First Nation and for all indigenous people in Canada.I joined Cat Lake Chief Matthew Keewaykapow last Thursday to sign an initial framework agreement that means a solid plan moving forward. This agreement includes $3.5 million to support 15 new housing units, as well as additional funding for demolition, site preparation and shipping of materials; $2.1 million to repair 21 existing units; $2 million for the delivery and installation of 10 portable housing units; and expediting the seven new units that are currently under way.Chief Keewaykapow invited me to join the community, and I have gratefully accepted accepted his invitation.Madam Chair and committee members, I urge you to support the appropriations requested in these estimates. The funding will enable us to continue to address the day-to-day realities in indigenous communities in a holistic way.Thank you. Meegwetch.Brush, prairie and forest firesBuilding and construction industryCare for childrenDepartment of Indigenous ServicesEmergency Management Assistance ProgramFinancial managementFirst Nation Student Success ProgramFloodsHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019MaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. PaulMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0855)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Robillard.[English]Budget 2016 provided $2.6 billion over five years for education on reserve. We have completed 157 projects thus far, and some are ongoing. Providing sufficient predictable funding for education is a cornerstone for strengthening first nations education and improving outcomes, obviously not just now but for the future. It is essential to the future prosperity of indigenous communities. It is also essential for them to build up the capacity that they need in order to handle what I believe will be an extremely bright future for them when it comes to economic prosperity, but also in the governance of their own affairs.That funding, as I say, has to be predictable. It has to be efficient. We are codeveloping an approach that's taking effect in April 2019 that will put first nations in the driver's seat when it comes to first nations education. It will support full-time kindergarten for ages four to five. It will ensure special education funding is more predictable, which they have raised with me personally. We will continue to work with them in an essential transformation of first nations education.Department of Indigenous ServicesEducation and trainingFirst Nation Student Success ProgramInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019YvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-Fortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0855)[English] I think it might have been my fourth or fifth day as minister that I attended the B.C. gathering of chiefs. That was an incredible eye-opener on the importance of emergency management assistance. Most of the questions that I took from the floor on that day were on exactly this, and for good reason. It involves their safety and their security. We provide emergency management support to on-reserve indigenous communities through the emergency management assistance program for the four pillars of emergency management: prevention, mitigation, response and recovery. We reimburse first nations partners, provincial and territorial governments and other third party service providers like the Canadian Red Cross for any eligible costs incurred in the delivery of emergency management systems to first nations communities. Supplementary estimates (B) includes $99.8 million to reimburse first nations and emergency management providers for on-reserve response and for recovery activities in 2018-19.If you look at what's driven those costs, there's $16.58 million for flooding, $26.92 million for wildfire response, $1.86 million for response costs for other emergencies such as tornadoes, $8.88 million for long-term evacuation costs and $74.91 million for recovery costs for things like critical infrastructure that needs to be replaced as a result of a fire, for instance.For the past four years, response and recovery costs have exceeded A-base funding of $29.3 million. Options to address this persistent funding shortfall are being explored right now. I expect, to be honest, that it's not going to get any better. The funds being requested will ensure first nations communities receive funding at a level to address that response and to recover. They support the Government of Canada's commitment to deliver consistent and high-quality programs and services to first nations. Department of Indigenous ServicesEmergency Management Assistance ProgramEmergency preparednessInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019YvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-Fortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0900)[English]I'll begin with some good news, which is that we just lifted our latest boil water advisory yesterday, which now brings us up to 80. This is something that we heard very clearly during the election campaign and since. It's something that Canadians can grasp onto for exactly the reasons that you cited, the idea of a community not having access to clean drinking water.Our government right now, as I said, is on track for our goal to lift all long-term drinking water advisories in public systems on reserve by March 2021. We also know that the work doesn't end with the lifting of long-term advisories. We're providing some sustainable investments to prevent short-term advisories, to expand delivery systems and to build capacity of and retain local water operators, training people on the ground in the community and putting in place systems for regular monitoring and testing.Decades of neglect are challenging to these reserves, but we are working in partnership to develop plans to meet their specific needs. A lot of work needs to be done, but so far the results are encouraging. As I said, 80 long-term drinking water advisories have been lifted so far, including that one yesterday in North Spirit Lake, Ontario. That one had been place for 17 years.I visited one facility in Piapot in Saskatchewan. The women who run this particular facility have trained long and hard. They work long, hard hours. My God, are they proud of the work that they're doing and the fact that they're doing that work in community, and they're the ones doing it. I have to say that the other thing that really struck me, and it was pointed out to me by the leadership, is, how spaced out many of these communities are. I think that, when we see images sometimes in the media, we see some communities that have houses that are in close proximity to one another, but a number of these communities have great distances between the houses, which makes dealing with their water needs more complex than meets the eye. Department of Indigenous ServicesDrinking waterInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019YvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-FortinYvesRobillardMarc-Aurèle-Fortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]I believe, and I can be corrected by my deputy, the reason is that we give it six months. Is that the time duration?Department of Indigenous ServicesDrinking waterInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodJean-FrançoisTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]Frankly, Mr. Waugh, if it is the case that we give ourselves six months before we get it back on track, that should be spelled out there as well so that it's transparent.Department of Indigenous ServicesDrinking waterInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Jean-FrançoisTremblayKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]Let me speak to the two examples that you brought up. In Piapot, I visited the interim water facility and it's really quite impressive. That is the interim one, and the women I met there were incredibly well trained and quite proud of that training. If they complained of anything, it was overwork. We need to get more people trained up so that they're not working the hours they are, which are pretty extensive. They showed me the facility, the site that had burned down. We are committed to rebuilding that with them. We're working with Carry the Kettle as well. I've spoken with them, or I should say, my officials have.Department of Indigenous ServicesDrinking waterInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Jean-FrançoisTremblayKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]Yes.KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]No, that was an unfortunate tweet. Georgina, what was it? It was a Beechcraft 1900, whose chairs are normally right on your knees. I had an official with me who got a new telephoto lens and put the seat down in front of me, so it looks as though I'm G5-ing it. However, I can tell you, it was absolutely not the case. We were on a plane with elders, with members of the community, and if you don't mind my saying so, with the member of the committee here, Georgina Jolibois. This is a normal way for people in the north to travel. It's the most cost-efficient way when we're going from place to place. I thought the view outside the window looked cool. It turned out to be an absolute disaster of a tweet, as they go. It in no way reflects the way we travel. It certainly in no way reflects our priorities. It's just a stupid old tweet.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0905)[English]It would be in keeping with our departmental costs. You know, these things would be out there. Honestly, Mr. Waugh, if you saw the plane it's something that you would see normally in northern Saskatchewan. A Beechcraft 1900 ain't sexy. There is not much legroom. It's just how we get back and forth. I can say, as a former baggage handler at Goose Bay International Airport in Labrador and flying around all over Labrador, this is—AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]—pretty typical stuff. I have to be honest with you, I'm used to a Twin Otter or a Beaver, so this is pretty high end for me.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Yes.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Yes.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Yes, because there were a number of people with us. It also looks like I'm alone. Most of the people were near the front of the plane because they knew the heat was better up there.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Yes.Department of Indigenous ServicesDrug addiction treatmentInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodKevinWaughSaskatoon—Grasswood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]For the treatment and wellness centre there I think it was close to $10 million. It will affect tens of thousands of people in neighbouring communities. It was something that they had worked on for quite some time. Addictions are a huge problem out there. In fact, I could expand on this at a later point but we recognize it's a huge problem in many communities in the north. The people there got together and they have done exemplary work in finding programming in a facility that will meet their specific needs. It was an honour to be up there with them.Department of Indigenous ServicesDrug addiction treatmentInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019KevinWaughSaskatoon—GrasswoodMaryAnnMihychukHon.Kildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Yes.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]We were happy to provide it to you and to elders who were present.AircraftDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]We can't just go about investing in housing and renovating homes on reserves without taking a holistic view from the viewpoint of the life cycle of the asset, the home and the kinds of homes that we specifically need in the north and indigenous communities. We are making a lot of progress with the AFN on the codevelopment of this first nations housing and related infrastructure strategy, the idea being that we listen to them. Through them, we listen to particular communities about their specific needs because the old way of doing it and one-size-fits-all didn't work. We all know that. Even if you look at Cat Lake, a number of the houses there were just planted there. We need to dig deeper into the standards that are required. Houses are going mouldy.Department of Indigenous ServicesHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Temperature is constantly changing. There are even small things.... When I sat down with the chief when I landed in Thunder Bay, one of the first things he mentioned, which was frankly quite obvious to anybody like me who grew up in the north, is storage. We're bringing all these materials up on the winter road and we're not storing them properly. As a result, things like lumber can go mouldy before we even build the house.Department of Indigenous ServicesHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English]Please.GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0910)[English] I agree. With Cat Lake, we sat down and we did the deal. It will involve 36 new housing units and 21 new renovations and repairs. We are assessing those units right now with the community to determine what's more cost efficient. It may be better in some cases.... We can do repairs and renovation where the damage is not that extensive, and in other ones we need to demolish the home and provide temporary housing in the 10 portable units we're bringing up there, and will leave there. These are things we have to work out with them.We are limited, as you well know, by the winter road. Most people in Canada don't appreciate what a winter road is. The community I grew up in had a winter road most of the time. It has a full tough year-round road now—it's no longer seasonal—but you have a very short window in which you can get construction supplies up there. The latest update I had, yesterday, is that we still cannot get heavy equipment up. We're still getting light equipment up. In the next four days, we're expecting very cold weather up there. This is one of those cases where Canadians are praying for cold weather, because that will sustain the road and we will be able to get the portables up there. You can imagine how heavy they are and how hard they are on those roads.That is essentially the challenge we are facing right now. We are ready, on one end, to get as many materials up there as quickly as we can. We are working with the province and the first nation. I spoke with Minister Rickford of the Ontario government yesterday. We are working with them to make sure we can get those supplies up there as quickly as possible.Much of it is the circumstances of living in the north. The only way we can overcome them is by working closely with the community. I talk to local leadership there regularly.Department of Indigenous ServicesHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0915)[English]I would simply add that you're absolutely right. That is why we are moving as quickly as we can, but we are also taking the time to listen and get it right. We are consulting extensively. When I'm in front of reporters, it's often, “Why can't you move faster?”, but at the same time, “Why aren't you consulting more extensively?”It does take time to get it right. I know that's frustrating, but I think what I presented to you, and what you will see, are long-term solutions and long-term budgeting. We are also looking at long-term block grants to communities so that they don't spend so much time on the administration level. Many of these small communities only have so many people to fill out the paperwork and do the calculations. When they are constantly reapplying for the funding they rely upon, that is time and energy wasted, which could be used for better planning and for more forward thinking.We are saying, “Let us find you a more financially sustainable model, so that you know where your money is coming from and you can spend more time getting it right.”Department of Indigenous ServicesHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0915)[English]Madame Jolibois, we will have trucks on the road within days.Department of Indigenous ServicesHousingInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019GeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill RiverGeorginaJoliboisDesnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0920)[English]I understand that the parliamentary secretary went there, as you said. It was noted that it was the first time a parliamentary secretary had been to the community, so I think that's terrific. As you said, there were two major infrastructure announcements in the community that were tremendously important—$1.1 million in those projects, and the Algonquins of Barriere Lake band council contributed an additional $300,000 to it. There's the brand new waste-water pumping station, a residence to house Kitiganik primary schoolteachers who come in from outside the community, and the connection to the grid.There's a tremendous desire amongst the indigenous leadership I've met. This was the case with the Cat Lake leadership. There were a few things, as I said, they wanted added to the agreement we had been working on, once I saw them in person. One of the first things they mentioned was storage facilities to make sure the equipment and the materials we were bringing up were adequately protected from the elements. There were a couple of other things that I think were very telling. First of all, they wanted somebody to come in, in a full-time position, to help them manage their new homes and to help them maintain them. The other thing they asked for, and I think it's tremendously important, was financial training. They wanted financial training for their chief, for their leadership, for their council members, and for their administration workers. There is a lot happening, and they want to handle these resources respectfully and responsibly. Of course we committed to all of that. There's a tremendous want and desire for that sort of training and to have that sort of responsibility and to deal with the new funding they are receiving, as I said, responsibly and respectfully.Department of Indigenous ServicesFinancial managementInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Third party managementWilliamAmosPontiacWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0920)[English] I would add he's borne witness to a lot over the years and he's pleased, I think, with the work that is in progress. Department of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019WilliamAmosPontiacWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0925)[English]I'll let Paul begin, and then I'll finish.CathyMcLeodKamloops—Thompson—CaribooPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0930)[English]I'm going to get into that, but if I could just use a minute of my time here to allow Paul or the deputy, perhaps, to finish the answer to the honourable member's question on what she termed the “slush fund”.Community economic developmentDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0930)[English]To the larger question of capacity-building, not only is it the right thing to do in empowering communities, frankly it's financially the smarter thing to do, rather than coming somewhere, building something, and then leaving without the ability of local leadership to be able to work with it and maintain it. It checks off all the boxes.It does require some upfront costs; that you take the time and the money. It does take a little longer to make sure you build up the capacity locally. The long-term benefit is tremendous, as you said you witnessed. The more we do this, the more we'll see savings down the road from our end.The idea that came to me in the very early days of my job here is that I'm a minister who is working himself out of a job. The more we can devolve services at the local level, the better. The more we can build up that capacity on the ground to deliver services directly to indigenous members in their communities, by indigenous people in their communities, the better. It's better for us; it's better for them.Community economic developmentDepartment of Indigenous ServicesInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019Jean-FrançoisTremblayMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0935)[English]I'm going to ask Paul to take it.ArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockPaulThoppil//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0935)[English]We may get to that point, to be honest with you. I understand concerns here, but I have a number of other pressing priorities that are taking up my time at the moment. Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019ArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockArnoldViersenPeace River—Westlock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88299SeamusO'ReganHon.Seamus-O-ReganSt. John's South—Mount PearlLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/OReganSeamus_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Seamus O'Regan: (0940)[English] I would contest that we're having a rule of law issue.Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActInterim estimates 2019-2020Supplementary estimates (B) 2018-2019ArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockArnoldViersenPeace River—WestlockINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingProvince / TerritoryCaucusParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE